DeOrr Kunz Jr. /// Part 2 /// 678 | Forensic Files

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[Music] welcome back in a reminder here as we get into episode two and further along
with our interview with Philip Klein of Klein investigations and Consulting that
this is an ongoing investigation little dorcons is still missing where coming up on 8 years now
and if you have any information or if client investigations has some information part
of the information but needs a little bit more and you can clarify something for them in their investigation please
make sure that you reach out to the investigating agencies here because the captain and I both feel like there are
just a couple of questions that need to be answered to seal this investigation up and really figure out what happened
here and maybe bring forward charges in this investigation and find the little boy and his remains yeah and anybody
that's been following this case we we really felt like this interview is really important to release because both
me and the colonel have followed this case very closely and had some questions and I I think Philip does a great job of
painting a clearer picture of what possibly happen the investigating agency in this case is the LI High County
Sheriff's Office they can be contacted at 208 756 8980 or you can go to their website if
you are uncomfortable with speaking with someone from law enforcement for any reason at all you can most certainly
contact Philip Klein or any of his colleagues at Klein investigations their website is KL EI n
investigations.com and their phone number is 49729 8798 and now we get to our questions for
client investigations as we go into part [Music] two if we're covering up an accident
okay you could take us through maybe what would be the penalty for a parent involved in some kind of accident
resulting in the the fatality of their youngster but a big question I have here is did you guys find anything to suggest
that Vernal was involved in drug use and or regular drug use well so the answer to that question is yes there are
suggestions that he had used meth from time to time according to the family members again I don't know how much meth
he was into but it was enough to raise the r of the family I think Jessica also told us that he used a little bit but
Jessica Jessica isn't the Virgin Mary in all this now she she misled us as well which goes back to that interview after
we were fired by Jessica well actually by vernell's father uh and hired by another family member uh that now famous
interview that's all I think you can get it on the interview uh and and and even
the media people missed it but they got it during dubbing and they called us and
said hey you need to get a copy of this where Vernal she's doing the interview and they say hold on we've got to change
a battery so while they're changing the battery on one of the cameras the other camera's just a rolling I mean it's just
rolling and vernal gets over to her and looks at her and go goes do not use past
tense words use present tense words she goes what don't say was say is something
to that effect and I'm paraphrasing again and she looks at him and she just rolls her eyes and shakes her head but
she changes the backside of the interview to use present day tense and that kind of that's when we all went
okay now now we know that's when we kind of went okay that nothing that comes out
of their mouth is going to be the truth and they wouldn't talk about it with law
enforcement Mr uh Browning shut down their Communications with law enforcement at that point and and I I'm
going down the drug route because of multitude of reasons but at the most simple is his job he's a he's a trucker
and I know that with with a lot of those types of jobs and on the job or even off
the job accident results in mandatory drug testing to keep your job and where where somebody might be wondering well
why would they if it was truly just an accident why go to these Great Lengths to cover it up well there's there's
other things at stake for uh for Vernal well I think here yes you are absolutely right that is part of the
equation yes you're you're very you're very good at that but let me say B I want you to hear this
is that they didn't know the law now if they had picked up the phone and said there was an accident or if they had
confessed to the FBI and said yeah we buried the baby in a cooler right and then at a later time and date after
everybody had left and we said we were going up there to do searches we got the cooler out of the ground and we took it
over to the dumpster to a dumpster SE uh which will lead us to where we are today
uh and it was delivered into a landfill because remember those guys don't look inside their dumpsters they just come up
with their big trucks and dump it in the dumpster how many bodies have we found in in the landfills so um I I I think
they didn't know the law and I think that they were probably thinking they would have gone to jail for the rest of
their lives when in fact all of the police officers were telling them look you're not going to jail for the rest of
your life if you did this is in in Idaho it's called tampering with the body it's
a Class C misdemeanor like a traffic ticket like going 75 and a 55 all you have to do is admit to it be done with
it pay your fine maybe do two days in jail at the worst who knows what they would have done up in limh high what are
you gonna do tell us I mean God make this all go away because at that point we had Nancy Grace involved we had had
oh my God Dr Phil wanted the the children over there and then me faced the the I'm the the two adults me faced
the two adults because he had read what we had been putting out because we had to put out something they weren't our
clients anymore and that's when the sheriff came out said they're suspects and then that's when the media came to
us say What's your opinion and we said we don't see anything wrong with what the sheriff has said where where the
sheriff is we're with law enforcement on this one because you know I'm not their
defense investigator right I'm I'm the guy just trying to find the body or the kid right and that's when all the Miss
that's when all the misnomers went out from from people that lived in Idaho Falls that knew the
attorney that knew Jessica and vernal and I think you know once people started going you know once you start putting
that doubt in people's mind uh you know I think they were trying to imp in a jury pool I think they were uh but
because they knew we were getting close and then all of a sudden they made the decision they were going to sue us for
contract violation and we were like you can't sue us for that that and and because the truth is the Ultimate
Defense that's our famous saying around here the truth is the ultimate defense and there's been you know many people
since 1992 that have tried to file some type of legal action saying well you guys
didn't do your jobs you didn't find my kid and we said well yeah we did it's the body and this is again before DNA
was real big and then they find out oh in fact way did and the suits dropped to people that we've named as suspects and
then the judges and the juries get a hold of the information and they go oh no no no no these guys are not liable
these guys know what they're doing because when we get on the stand we tell the story and we tell it in a concise
manner that people will understand so I think I think that the misinformation plays started and I think once the
lawsuit was filed Witnesses clammed up everybody kind of went I don't want to be involved in that and the judge
dismissed the lawsuit immed not immediately I think after about five six months the judge dismissed the lawsuit
the interesting part of the lawsuit was it was only Vernal suing Vernal and his father it wasn't
Jessica Jessica didn't didn't sue us so what you're saying out of the four people that were up there the mother the
father and the grandfather know what happened but maybe the mother's not saying anything because or not suing you
guys because she feels more guilty about what happened yeah yeah listen I I met their attorney uh I like the guy I think
he's a great guy I thinks he's a nice guy uh he just was defending his clients he's kind of a bulldog which is fine you
got to you know he's he's not a Denny Crane he's not an allen Shore he's he's just one of those guys that shut the
hell up his pleadings are very very mean uh and and that's some attorneys I've met nice attorneys mean attorney he's a
mean attorney I think that in the end um you know Vern's daddy died right and um
during the middle of the lawsuit uh I think Vernal was out there on his own and we were fixing to start deposit
positions and that was not going to go the right way for Vernal uh because he knew that we knew everything and and and
I think he started becoming a little shaky but we went ahead to the judge and said judge you know look uh they wanted
to file a motion to dismiss with attorney's fees we said no we're going to fight that wee presented what we knew
the judge came back after about a week and said no uh Klein's good his information is good the truth is the
Ultimate Defense uh Mr Coons you've lied over all this stuff uh and he said it you know kind of an app pleading he
didn't come out and say you're a liar he came out and just said no you know it's
not working for you Mr Coons and the truth is the ultimate defense and so therefore uh under under the law you are
uh I'm dismissing the case and not only I'm dismissing the case but I'm giving Mr Klein's insurance company Mr Klein
the opportunity to collect their legal fees which were well over $100,000 immediately did a asset check
on Vernal and his dad's estate and they they don't they don't have any money they got zero dollars uh so why would I
want to spend another 25,000 to get leans on people that have no money I mean it's just a waste of my money and
it's a waste of time so we let it go we just let it go and I I think that uh at that point Trina C brought in a guy
named David marshburn he's also a private investigator and marshburn went out to the site and his dog
interestingly enough we've never said this publicly because we've all kind of just sat back and kind of wanted to
watch what Marsh bur would do uh but marshburn sided up with uh with uh uh Mr Browning that was uh Vernal Coon's
lawyer marshburn's dog hit in the same place that we our dogs hit so it's kind of like oh I found a bone and this is
going to blow this case wide open and all this other stuff we were like well if you found a bone [ __ ] you're better
than us yay and uh because you know we one thing we do here is we keep a positive attitude we really do we keep a
positive attitude it's not about who finds a child it's about finding the child right so if people have other eyes
yay go get them right that's what that's the way we feel here okay so when marshburn started coming out on TV and
radio and oh I found my dogs found scent and he went all over Facebook and he had
pictures of himself up on Facebook and with the dogs and everything we were like go Dog go let's go maybe we were
wrong it's okay to be wrong right it's okay it's okay to be wrong everybody looks at is that's terrible and horrible
but it's okay to be wrong if you do it in good faith if you do it in bad bad faith you lie and you're trying to get
away with something that's bad but that's kind of how we handled it well Marsh Burn's bone turned out to be an
old deer bone from back and they said I think they were telling us it was uh oh my goodness back in
19 I think they said in the 90s the 80s it was just an old bone from a deer uh and and all the sudden marshburn has
disappeared from the case so that's been kind of interesting he's kind of disappeared but he did show up on
YouTube with Mr Browning calling me names calling my company names calling everybody names well and you see that
with online Luthers with YouTube creators podcast creators where everybody wants to be the genius or the
expert of a certain case and it really doesn't matter who solves this case or who figures out where this boy is and
how we get the remains back as long as it gets done yeah and inter interestingly enough
when we found out marshburn was involved I sent David a a letter and I followed it up with a phone call saying hey you
may be better than us raah raw let's go get them I'm going to load everything up
into Banker boxes I've got to be out in South Carolina on a in a meeting where I
was teaching I why don't I just drive up the road and uh you know you and I can sit in a room and we'll grab some pizza
and some coke and we'll sit on the floor and you can go through every one of our
files I have permission from my client to allow you to go through every one of my files and you know what he said I
don't want to go through your files I don't want anything to do with you and that kind of went what what' we do to
you dude what why we we didn't crap in your backyard what's going on so um you're the one that came and crapped in
our backyard so we're trying to extend you know good faith gesture to you saying maybe you are smarter than us
let's go through the file together let's go through the interviews let's get a the TV setup and we'll bring sticks and
you can watch every interview and you can you can do all this stuff and then if you want to do a podcast he does
podcast we said if you want to do a podcast let's do a podcast together I'll answer any question you have let's work
together tell us to go blow literally go screw yourself I think was the words and we we were like and he
cursed me out like I've never used the FW all these other words and we were like dude what are you doing what what's
going on aren't we just supposed to all be working together find a kid and U so that's how marshburn came in Philip
let's go through some things real quick kind of short answers what yes no because there's a couple things I want
to make sure that we get to before we run out of time uh just to kind of answer some
quick rapid fire type questions some boxes for those listening so what what you're saying is that your through
interviews and through the your findings your evidence it is of your opinion that
there some kind of accidental death led to the death of this little boy and the parents then cover it up
stop me when I get to something that I'm wrong no no you're right you're right you're right they they they conceal the
body near the scene of where they are air quotes camping um and probably Vernal sitting
there awfully nervous hoping they don't find what they've concealed so that it can be moved later right and then your
findings and things that you've uncovered suggest that we probably if you were to find the remains it's likely
in in the landfill somewhere and then Bob Walton uh passes away and basically he may not know exactly what happened
but it sounds like he wasn't willing to budge he may not have been there when it
happened but he he's he's accepted it for what it is and choosing not to talk uh leading up to
his death and then the with Isaac he's a bit of a scapegoat because Mom and Dad can point
to him and go well he's kind of this weird guy that we don't really know and he's there on this trip but there's
nothing to suggest that Isaac was up to to no good and and Isaac is interviewed by you guys on multiple occasions he's
the only one of the four that is giving a consistent story and his story it sounds like to me is I'm
a that Dior was there the day before and then the next morning wakey wakey eggs and bakey I didn't I don't see Dior
after that exactly and so so it so at some point they conceal the remains and now
bring us up to speed of some rather interesting finds that you guys had as far as post offense Behavior as far as
uh post coverup behavior from Mom and Dad who just lost mysteriously lost their two and a half-year-old little boy
well at first they start out and they go on the this campaign Philip Klein's bad
which is normal I mean you know we've had suspects do that all the time Philip Klein's normal horrible terrible type
guy so we know right then okay something's coming so a lot of the news media does the three-year anniversary
the five-year anniversary the eight-year anniversary and in these interviews they
say oh we go up all of the time and we search for the baby up there in the mountains when in fact we are already
know because consequently Us in law enforcement are up there in the mountains kind of watching who's coming
and going they hadn't been up there they've never gone up there they've gone up there maybe one time one time they
went up there and that was to do an interview with the news media right and so we kind of went um now this
is during the litigation phase they were just trying to put on a good front which
is fine it's okay so that's the first thing the second thing is that we when you leave people alone they have a
tendency to be who they really are Vernal moves out of Idaho Falls and goes down to I guess Las Vegas Nevada Little
Town North Las Vegas but we'll call it Las Vegas and he's gonna be a trucker and he's doing his Trucking thing and so
during that time we get what we call a UC an undercover uh not an investigator but an
undercover plant and she makes contact with Vernal and vernal we start going hm okay Vernal you know what are you up to
and so she makes friends with them and they're talking on the internet and they talk on Facebook and then out of nowhere
this UC starts sending us pictures that Vernal sending to himself very graphic pornography pictures of himself
to this girl and she goes what do you want us to do I said Keep It Coming let's go let's see what he's all about
and so that's one thing that happen so we're kind of like okay in the pictures you can see some pretty scandalous stuff
I don't really want to talk about it because I can't test it and make sure it is what it is but some pretty scandalous
stuff then after that he figures out oh no I've been duped this is an undercover
agent that uh undercover witness that his clients put on to me and so he blows up and goes
crazy so we in the process uh begin to um REO back over our notes now there's a time period in there
six-month time period where we kind of let everything just kind of go cool we just want everything to kind of go cool
so when we decide to crank back up that the client calls us another client calls
us and says I'm sisters with this one I want to get you guys back involved we're
like ah you know we've already dropped out we don't know then they say please M Mr Klein would you do this and to Mrs
gear and Mrs gear please so we did we say okay you know no money foundation will cover the expenses too at this
point which by the way my company has about almost 200 $1,000 invested in this case of our money right of our money not
anybody else's money of our money and people say why the hell especially people in the media say why the hell you
do that well you know what it's not about us and it's not about them it's about finding this little baby to put
this little baby to rest well when you do it as long as we do it and you're successful at it as we are there's
something inside your body and soul that tells you you can't walk away from it this is one of those cases I just can't
walk away I just I can't I can't I just see that little boy's face and it kills me because I have a little grandson that
you know has that same little face Innocents happy you know all little blonde hair big boots you know a little
bit so we crank back up and the first thing I want to do is thing called a peer review y'all know peer reviews do
y'all ever talk about those where you get other private investigators that are on your level to you send them the you
send them we call it the Box you send them the box and they go through everything you've done and some of those
can get pretty rough I mean they can say why did you do this why did you ask this
question I know a lot of them have asked me that have reviewed my case why' you throw the laptop across the room and it
was just out of total frustration of this guy I knew he knew what happened to that child I just knew Bob new I just
knew it you just know when you interview as many people as we've interviewed I think uh when I saw Holmes start turning
red and getting angry and you know the guy was just kind of laughing at us and saying they can screw and have another
baby and we were like what I mean that's how blatant it is and so um the peer review came back to us and said no you
guys are right on track other than a couple of things you shouldn't have F on the laptop you shouldn't
have oh I think there was a you should have confronted uh earlier you should have confronted U Vernal in person with
what you had on the blood you should have you know there's a bunch of stuff we should have done which looking back
they're probably right I mean you know it was In the Heat of the Moment and that sort of thing
so we after peer review was done we said okay let's go back over everything we've
everything we have done and we did that and what we came back to is the missing uh cooler right and the the um
dumpsters that were down at the bottom of the hill 7 miles away and we started making out a path a
path towards okay what if Vernal and Jessica went down there and they they watch the dumpsters and which would fit
the timeline it would fit everything right perfect and they got that cooler and they dumped it in the uh uh they
dumped it in the uh dumpster interestingly enough the guy at the uh the guy at the uh gas
when a gas station the feed store uh did say yeah there was a cooler on the truck
so and it just and so we kind of thought to ourselves well you know maybe Vern was going down to get ice there was no
ice purchase so that was kind of a Miss by us and law enforcement um and so uh at that point uh we kind of feel what
happened the working Theory we're working with now is that uh that he buried the body up there covered it up
put it as all the people arrived there was a guy out there directing traffic to where to park your cars and don't park
it in the crime scene area which is of course right there at the uh uh at the cattle guard right remember the cattle
guard cattle guard comes into play in this thing and uh so we feel that uh the working Theory we're working with based
upon the information we've gotten from Witnesses is that uh that the the cooler was most likely used buried there
covered up after everybody left they eventually Somebody went back up there and got that cooler and put it in the
dumpster down south or in retrospect they laid the body there they came down with the cooler put the body in the
cooler and they sat down there and watched the uh uh the dumpster area when everybody was gone there was nobody else
around because remember they were up there during a pretty busy Peri period of time uh they got the cooler and they
threw it in one of the dumpsters and covered it up with trash uh and the dumpster guy came and
got it and they just got lucky they got [Music] lucky this show is sponsored by better
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difference all right we are back cheers mates tall cans in the air Captain yeah to the
people in the back very fascinating stuff like I said to me it just paints a clearer picture and I have a way better
understanding of the case and and possibly what went down that that horrible tragic camping trip and the
situation has always been a strange one right Captain you got this missing child
and part of you cannot help but feel bad for the four individuals that were there
on the camping trip the the great-grandfather the mother the Father the the friend Isaac because they're all
wrapped up in this and and some of the people on this trip have lost someone too right and that always makes it very
conflicting when you're trying to look at these stories and trying to tear through the details and get a better
understanding of what happened because you have that that that lingering thought in the back of your mind that
these could be people that are very much hurting as well well now what we're getting as you said a clearer picture a
better understanding of what likely took place within a 24-hour time period and it seems to be the the the most
impressive thing and alarming thing at the same time that's been uncovered by client investigations and
Consulting is that not only do the parents know what happened to their son but Vernal the father is steering the
ship and controlling the narrative and likely controlling some of the other players or influencing some of the other
players here in this matter yeah again lies upon lies but also then asking for sympathy from the
public this is this is where it just gets where you stop feeling bad for these individuals and and you start
questioning why aren't they just telling law enforcement the truth and exactly you're exactly right there Captain
because not only do we have other family members who are putting up their time their money their resources into trying
to assist in an investigation that will tell us what happened to Dior or in the early stages hopefully find him but keep
in mind in the early stages of this investigation what what Philip Klein does not mention is that the general
public came together and raised almost $30,000 to assist Vernal and Jessica in in the hopes of finding their son yeah
and where is the the Justice and where is the Peace for this little boy the only Justice the only peace that could
come for this little boy little Dior Coons is now in the hands of the investigators is now in the people that
are charged with investigating this case and figuring out exactly what happened let's get back to our interview with
Philip Klein so Phillip you were talking about some of the weird actions of the father but do we have any weird actions
that we can speak about how the mother was acting afterwards yeah she she she was very
submissive very submissive to Vernal very submissive very and we kind of were looking at that going did you threaten
her and I tried to ask her the question she knew where I was going with it and she wouldn't answer me she just went on
to something else I asked her the question do you feel threatened in any way you know by Vernal or anybody else
in vernell's family or anybody in your family for that matter uh you know we asked that
question and she wouldn't answer it so we didn't find anything to pinpoint a more exact time of when the cooler could
have been moved after law enforcement we do know we do know the pickup times which was
Tuesday and Friday I think and so it would have been Friday of after that Thursday night that it was picked up and
moved moved uh and or it was dumped into one of the bigger trucks and the bigger
trucks went out to the landfill so you can kind of assume what we're doing right now is we're going
through it's called uh it's called tagging the landfill we're going out with what you because they keep track of
everything out those landfills they know they know what truck delivered it they know what truck picked up the trash what
truck dumped the trash where they know that stuff at the landfills so you you know we're going through a period of uh
of Imaging and and marking and all the other good stuff that we do so if your guys' theory is correct on what happened
and this is an accident something bad happened they covered up so do you think the mother's just not coming forward
because she is afraid for her safety if she speaks out a turn I think so I think
the way she acted the way she dropped out of the lawsuit you know Jessica and she'd given up uh she'd given up her
other two children to the daddy um her other baby daddy um I I just think Jessica um I don't know what to say
about Jessica she's definitely a narcissist in my opinion uh she's definitely hiding
something in my opinion I think she's definitely knows more than she's telling the general public law enforcement and
of course she's never going to talk to us again in my opinion the smartest thing for
Jessica to do is pick up the phone and call us as PSB investigators Private Security Board investigators uh because
we're civil we're not criminal we can't charge her and sit down with us and tell
us the story I'd hate to be Jessica Mitchell and carry this on my in my heart in my back I i'
i' and knowing one day we all are going to die right and knowing one day that she's going to die
and she's going to have to face uh you know our Lord and savior and uh if she ever gets a chance to see him I mean
that's just what I'm saying I don't know I don't I I just don't know what else to
say on that uh Jessica I believe is the one that will break first uh and and finally say something either that or
she's my belief is she's probably going to end up in a mental institution I I there's she's gone
through so many men she go she picks bad men drug addicts bad guys like uh I think Vernal is a very bad guy picks
Vernal she doesn't pick good men and uh I I think she's searching for something and uh you know and she and you know
when she's lying because her voice goes up two octaves and she screams so you know when you got her in a lie and she
never looks at you that's one thing that I always bothered me about her during the interview is uh my interview with
her was that she would never look at me she'd always look to the left and down and anybody who takes any type of
interview courses knows what that means they just they're they're trying to DEC contct with you and they're just trying
to tell you a lie is there any evidence that the father was abusive towards the son towards the 2-year-old or abusive
towards his wife you know I I don't I don't I don't know and that that's always been a discussion now you're
coming into the investigator's conference room where we all sit and we all are on the on I guess what what do
we call it now Skype or whatever zoom and we're all in the room and we're all talking and we're all going over okay
well do you think Vernal could have beat the crap at him and hurt him high on meth and I'm kind of like if he is he's
a cold blooded killer but that's what the sheriff the old Sheriff thinks if they won't come out and they were
offered a deal you know everybody says well they were offered immunity yes they were from a Class C
misdemeanor if they won't agree to a Class C misdemeanor which is a traffic ticket which is a $200 fine and if
you're lucky a day in jail if they won't agree to that like the old Sheriff say Bowerman said he looked me right in the
eyes he said well if they won't take that deal what deal is it what did they really do think about that did you guys
uncover anything that I mean shortly after they come down off of the mountain that you found to be odd behavior from
oh yeah all over the place from the point of telling us that the baby was knocking on the window talking to the
guy that was pumping the gas to the guy that was pumping the gas said there was no kid in that car to the to the to the
stage shop it was unusual for them to go into that long di tribe and say oh he was running around everybody was
laughing at him there was a long line of people we go back and look at the register
inputs there was no long line of people and and and we talked to the lady that actually rung it up and she said there
was no small kid in here to the Beer guy who said there was I never put anybody like that up in my truck to the truck
guy that said we found the truck guy he said no I never I never did that what what are youall talking about you know
the these are the weird things these stories they made up that they really in in in my opinion
that they thought we would fall for Hook Line and Sinker yeah it's almost like they didn't think anybody would check on
their stories yeah nobody can check that they can't find these people it's a year
or two down the line now they can't find them well if you can't find them a year
or two down the line you're not a very good investigator right so I don't know we have a great team here and they're
really good at what they do and you know sure enough they walk in here with these
long faces and say yeah I found the I found the beer guy I I never forget that uh Charlie walking in saying I found the
beer guy oh cool what' the beer guy say did did he B you know did he play with a
little Dior did he he never saw a little deal so when they were offered this immunity basically from law enforcement
did they have to show where the body was or produced the body yep had to tell them where the body was and if they
would have produced his body and they ran test and did an autopsy and and found out that their story wasn't true
or they weren't being truthful they then could have been in big trouble for that
they could lying to a federal agent that's big money right big money you with me yeah but so law
enforcement is just tell us the truth tell us what happened tell us what happened and if we can verify what your
story is the least we'll charge you with is a misdemeanor that's what we'll charge you
with is which is a Mis misdemeanor and they wouldn't take the deal so like the sheriff told me he said
Phillip he said I know you're not a you're not a uh you're you're not a uh uh a criminal investigator but you're
pretty good at what you do he said let me just present it to you this way and that's how he presented it to me and I
was kind of like wow you know what dude you're right you're right they won't take a
misdemeanor plea and they won't show us what happened with the body now his attorney spun it big time his attorney
spun it as oh well they just don't know and we were like you you don't know wait
a minute what are you telling us here um again it's all just built on lies and you can't and once you're presented with
a lie that's it it's over okay we're we're we're we got you what philli what is the sex shop story that so okay let
me set it up for you we call yeah well well actually let me let me Lead You In with this so Dior Coons and you you
correct me if I'm wrong on anything Dior Coons Jr little boy two and a half years
old missing reported missing July 10th right and then we are spending all this time with all these efforts with with
lots of technology and resources up on the mountain looking for the little boy we
don't find him Saturday July 18th is Father's day and on this day Vernal spins the day camped out just yards away
from where his son air quotes disappeared from now where's the sex shop story taking
place so when we present everything we've got to Jessica Vernal sitting in the parking
lot in his car waiting on Jess to come out 1 hour turns into five 5 hours turns into seven and then I guess Jessica's
mother shows up in the seventh or eighth hour and says okay that's enough we're done so she she walks out uh Jessica
walks out of the police station we're all just kind of we all in another room watching the interview just shaking our
heads Jessica walks out and gets in a car and then vernals in that car now you would think after seven eight hours in
an interrogation like you've never seen an interrogation before they had nice people come in mean people come in they
had psychologists come in I mean they were really working her you would think a person would be so tired that they'd
say just take me home I just want to go home and take a shower I just I just I need to lay down right that's what i' do
I don't know about y'all and I'm a big strong guy couple glasses of wine so I I'm a big strong guy carries a gun for a
living I guarantee if I went if I went into that type of atmosphere I mean I guarantee you I'd go
home and say I'd sleep for a couple of days but no they get in the car and they drive over to a sex
shop they go into the sex shop and of course we've got it all on video clone my winky they okay they buy a product
called clone my winky and and and and she's just out of an FBI interview and so they laugh and
they're cutting up and they're doing all this stuff well they immediately take it
and take it home because there was not only we were following them but the FBI was following them so it's like
everybody's following these people they go home and the lights go out and boom it's over for the day well we're sitting
there going what is this and that's when the sheriff actually got mad he said I'm
telling you she's some kind of narcissist and I was like she's some kind of something but you know I'm not a
doctor of medicine and I can't give I can't give diagnosis but I've never seen that before even with people that were
not that were guilty they walk out of there thinking aha I beat him again right I I've never seen that they've
usually walked out of there with tears in their eyes or they're red in the face or they're hungry or they're something I
i' I've never seen that before there the both both of them have have in my opinion based upon how I've been
trained has some type of narcissistic personality disorder where as the sheriff said if it wasn't an accident it
has to be a murder or an intentional murder that's where law enforcement is right now why would you hide the body
why would you they don't you know why she spends how many six seven eight hours seven hours hours of actual
interview time of video that we have but I'd say she'd been in there nine hours at least and and it's it and reliving
the traumatizing experience of losing your child and and having no clue as to what happened to them and probably even
being accused of horrible things during that time period during the questioning and then to cap off the day on the way
home we stop by the sex shop and uh celebrate before yeah but see I don't know if I lean towards that that's
something wrong with her more so that it's it's like what the captain's saying here is
the power and control side of it right Captain well yeah well yeah because what I'm saying is like you know that's an
abusive tactic from from men to go well in order for me to believe what you said
to the cops you're going to do this sexual act for me or or whatever it is so I I wonder how how how abusive you
know verbally mentally you know that relationship was um because to to me that doesn't seem
like a a thing a normal thing but I could I could see abusive man going okay well
you know for me to believe you or or you owe this to me or whatever I almost yeah
you're right on it you're right on it yep and and and I think he's in her ear you know I you know remember you go back
to the video right the media video where they actually catch him saying hey um you know you've got to say you've
got to say in today tense not past tense and she looks at him going what you know
Screw you like rolling her eyes right right ver steering sh that's good way I would like to see his records too
uh to see if he's the one calling her mother to say you need to go in there and and stop this you know what maybe I
don't know um you know Vernal has been very interesting about his phone you know he tells us that's the other great
thing Vernal I don't know if he I just don't know if he's stupid or what but we do have a a audio tape of the 911 call
from Vernal 2 911 about his son missing right and he's talking to him on the phone well I think we've kind of hinted
at what we have but we actually at the same time uh uh Jessica is talking to 911
right saying my son's missing he's two years old well guess what we hear in the background Vernal talking to 911 but
he's supposed to like a mile and a half down the road do has that been released I remember hearing Jessica's
we're not releasing yeah law enforcement's asked that not to be released because that's going to be a
that's going to be a huge uh that's going to be a huge part of the case but everybody knows about it I mean the cops
released it and said yeah this is what's happened this is what's going on our original coverage of the Dior Coons
missing persons case suspicious death investigation possible homicide investigation case we released that in
May of 200 19 in episodes 305 and 306 and what Philip is talking about right here in regards to the 911 calls
because there were two one from Jessica one from Vernal you can hear in our episode
305 timestamp 29 minutes and 38 seconds where Vernal is describing the 911 calls and that he and
Jessica are not in the same location when those calls are coming in these statements and what police find in their
investigation very quickly is that this is a discrepancy in their story that this is uh deception on both of their
behalfs and it sounds like vernals 911 call has not been released to the public Philip is there anything that we that we
didn't touch on today that we we should make clear for for the listeners in regards to this case before I don't know
I I think I think two things I think number one I think most importantly of all of it uh most importantly I think
that um when um Vernal well I'm just gonna say it this way I believe as y'all obviously think um Vernal is running the
show and he's letting trying to let the clock run out um and I think that that's
kind of interesting I think he's trying to say oh the longer goes the worse it'll be well the longer goes I'm sorry
the longer goes the better it will be the longer it goes in reality the worse it's going to be for him I mean he needs
to understand that no he's got a wild card out there okay and her her name is Jessica that's the wild card and he can
you know now they're not married and now they they say they don't talk to each other I'm telling you right now now that
you know one day she's going to wake up that's the baby she birthed that's the baby that came out of
her uh is she the mother of the year award absolutely not she's she she wouldn't even get honorable mention but
there's an inherited part of a human being that knows when their child is dead they will do anything it takes
right it'll they'll do anything it takes to come out of that horrible psychosis and say oh my
God my baby's dead I'm gonna make this better right does that make sense and I think that that's the other
wild card out there uh I think like I said before I'll say it again I think Jessica knows what happened and I think
she's keeping it underneath her skin I really do in your professional opinion and your expert
opinion what do you think will happen well I think the sheriff up there you know there's all he's he the poor
guy he he has him and five deputies right that's it right and they work their butts off they work 12- hour
shifts six days a week and the sheriff is a dedicated guy I'll tell you what you'll never find um um uh
you'll never find a better guy than than him and I think that he has a plan and I
think uh um I think that he will come up with his plan uh I don't I don't want to
say anything about the sheriff in limh high County other than absolutely positive stuff right I just I just want
to say something very very positive um the media is scared now to report the case because of the lawsuit uh you know
uh East Idaho news who we had a good relationship with I don't think we have a very good relationship with them now
from what my staff is telling me uh you know they want no interest in being a part of the case now uh you know I don't
know what to tell you uh about that I think the second thing is and most importantly is uh uh Vern's worst
nightmare is that the police officers are not going to give up just like we're not going to give up we're not giving up
on this child not going to happen well we want to thank you for allowing us to be a part of your investigation and
informing oh you're very welcome and let me say one other thing one of the misnomers out there and I think it's
very important and I'm just going to give you a little hint on this one of the misnomers and I think you guys
reported it as well is that the water runs into this small Lake up in um uh up in Lor Idaho up at the campground it
doesn't it runs out of the lake so if you if you look at the map and you look at how the water runs out of that Lake
it's just a it's just a um a snow runoff little Lake if you look you go back and
you look at Jess Mitchell and vernal running around down there saying oh I'm fishing for
tadpoles or not tadpoles but little fish there's no little fish in there well thank you philli we really appreciate
your time today and bringing us up to speed on where the case stands today you're you're very welcome and thank you
too for everything you do for the missing it's very important that's how we came upon you uh is that during our
peer review uh and and uh your your your uh your podcast was put in there about this and we listen to it very closely
and you guys do a great job thank you very much for what you do for the [Music] missing
want to thank everybody so much for joining us here back in the garage make sure you share these cases on social
media and Colonel do we have a recommended reading for The Listener well if you're following the news you
already know that one of the most notorious serial killers to be apprehended in the last 30 to 35 years
wedged right between Jeffrey dmer and the BTK Dennis Raider was Theodore kazinski aka the unibomber he was a
serial killer domestic terrorist who's been locked up since 1996 Ted kazinski was found dead in his
cell the morning of June 10th with significant neck injuries and a depressed trachea by the time he was
discovered rigger mortise had already set in at least one source reported that Ted appeared ghostlike and frail leading
up to his death Ted kazinski was 81 years old serving out a life sentence in the Colorado supermax facility but in
December of 2021 kazinski was moved to a prison medical facility many of the news
outlets out there are saying the reason for kazinsky transfer is unclear however
last year we interviewed true crime author Jamie garri who told us that Ted was diagnosed with cancer so with Ted in
the news again this is a good reminder to go and check out her book madman in the woods life next door to the
unibomber Jamie had the unfortunate experience of growing up in the woods of Montana right next door to domestic
terrorist and serial killer Ted kazinski check out her book The Madman in the woods one of my favorite true crime
books of 2022 you can find that great title in many more on our recommended page on our
website true Crim garage.com and until next week be good be kind and don't [Music]
litter is it possible to predict the unpredictable can 3D printed life-size organ models help to map out complex
surgeries ahead of time is it possible it already is right here Mayo Clinic you know where to go

DeOrr Kunz Jr. /// Part 2 /// 678

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarge.com (http://www.truecrimegarge.com/)

In the summer of 2015 a two-year-old went missing from a campground in Lemhi County, Idaho. According to the 911 call DeOrr Kunz Jr. vanished on the morning of day two of a weekend long camping trip. Little to no trace of him at all has ever been found. When the case broke everyone was looking for the little boy. Searchers looked for the little boy for ten straight days using every resource available to them at the time. When the search turned up little to nothing, the parents said little DeOrr had been abducted. The Sheriff’s department said that they have evidence that something else happened. Since then Private Investigators have been hired, fired, donated their time to the case and have been sued by DeOrr’s father. Klein Investigations and Consulting was one of those PI firms to join the case. This week in the Garage we are joined by one of the lead Private Investigators who continues to work this case to find DeOrr and get justice for the lost “little man.” We get insider and behind the scenes information about the case as an effort to make a strong push toward finally bringing this case to a close.

If you have ANY information at all that could help this case or that could lead to finding DeOrr Kunz jr. please call the Lemma County Sheriff’s Office at 1-208-756-8980 OR if you are not comfortable talking with Law Enforcement please call Klein Investigations at 1-409-729-8798 or go to www.KleinInvestigations.com (http://www.kleininvestigations.com/)

Thank you for your help and as always - Thank you for listening, and thank you for telling a friend. Cheers.

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Brief Summary

Philip Klein discusses the ongoing investigation into Dior Coons' disappearance, highlighting parental involvement and inconsistencies in their stories.

Key points

The Ongoing Investigation. Little Dorcons has been missing for nearly 8 years, and new information is needed.
Drug Use Implications. Evidence suggests Vernal had a history of drug use, complicating the investigation.
Cover-Up Behavior. The parents' actions post-incident raise suspicions about their involvement.
The Emotional Toll. The investigator reflects on the personal impact of the case, especially as a grandparent.
Uncovering Lies. The investigation reveals troubling behaviors from the parents, raising questions about their involvement.
The Mother's Silence. The investigator suspects the mother knows more than she admits, hinting at deeper issues.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Every day we're doing what's never been done.

0:19WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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