DeOrr Kunz Jr. /// Part 2 /// 678 | Forensic Files

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what will you find thank you [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] welcome back and a reminder here as we
get into episode two and further along with our interview with Philip Klein of client investigations and Consulting
that this is an ongoing investigation little Dior Coons is still missing we're coming up on eight years now and if you
have any information or if client investigations has some information part of the information but needs a little
bit more and you can clarify something for them and their investigation please make sure that you reach out to the
investigating agencies here because the captain and I both feel like there are just a couple of questions that need to
be answered to seal this investigation up and really figure out what happened here and maybe bring forward charges in
this investigation and find the little boy in his remains yeah and anybody that's been following this case we we
really felt like this interview is really important to release because both me and the colonel have followed this
case very closely and had some questions and I I think Philip does a great job of
painting a clearer picture of what possibly happened an investigating agency in this case is the lean High
County Sheriff's Office they can be contacted at 208-756-8980 or you can go to their
website if you are uncomfortable with speaking with someone from law enforcement for any reason at all you
can most certainly contact Philip Klein or any of his colleagues at Klein investigations their website is
k-l-e-i-n investigations.com and their phone number is 409-729-8798 and now we get to our
questions for client investigations as we go into part two [Music] if we're covering up an accident okay
you could take us through maybe what would be the penalty for a parent involved in some kind of accident
resulting in the the fatality of their youngster but a big question I have here is did you guys find anything to suggest
that Vernal was involved in drug use and or regular drug use well so the answer to that question is yes there are
suggestions that he had used meth from time to time according to the family members again I don't know how much meth
he was into but it was enough to raise the aura of the family I think Jessica also told us that he used a little bit
but Jessica but Jessica isn't the Virgin Mary in all this now she she misled us as well which goes back to that
interview after we were fired by Jessica well actually by vernal's father uh and hired by another family member uh
that now famous interview that's all I think you can get it on the interview and even the media people missed it but
they got it during dubbing and they called us and said hey you need to get a copy of this
where Vernal she's doing the interview and they say hold on we've got to change a battery
so while they're changing the battery on one of the cameras the other camera is just a rolling I
mean it's just rolling and vernal gets over to her and looks at her and goes do not use past tense words use present
tense words she goes what don't say was say is something to that effect and I'm paraphrasing again and she looks at him
and she just rolls her eyes and shakes her head but she changes the back side of the interview to use present day
tense and that kind of that's when we all went okay now we know that's when we kind of
went okay that nothing comes out of their mouth is going to be the truth and they wouldn't talk about it with law
enforcement Mr Browning shut down their Communications with law enforcement at that point and and I I'm going down the
drug route because of multitude of reasons but at the most simple is his job he's a he's a trucker
and I know that with with a lot of those types of jobs and on the job or even off
the job accident results in mandatory drug testing to keep your job and where where somebody might be wondering well
why would they if it was truly just an accident why go to these Great Lengths to cover it up well there's there's
other things at stake for uh for Vernal well I think here yes you are absolutely
right that is part of the equation yes you're you're very you're very good at that but let me say B I want you to hear
this is that they didn't know the law now if they had picked up the phone and said
there was an accident or if they had confessed to the FBI and said yeah we buried the baby in a cooler right and
then at a later time and date after everybody had left and we said we were going up there to do searches we got the
cooler out of the ground and we took it over to the dumpster or to a dumpster Set uh which will lead us to where we
are today um and it was delivered into a landfill because remember those guys don't look
inside their dumpsters they just come up with their big trucks and dump it in the
dumpster how many bodies have we found in in the landfills so um I I think they didn't know the law and I think that
they were probably thinking they would have gone to jail for the rest of their lives
when in fact all of the police officers were telling them look you're not going to jail for the rest of your life if you
did this in in Idaho it's called tampering with the body it's a Class C misdemeanor like a traffic ticket like
going 75 in a 55 all you have to do is admit to it be done with it pay your fine maybe do
two days in jail at the worst who knows what they would have done up in Lim High
We gonna do tell us I mean God make this all go away because at that point we had
Nancy Grace involved we had oh my God Dr Phil wanted the children over there and
then me faced the uh the the two adults me faced the two adults because he had read what we had been putting out
because we had to put out something they weren't our clients anymore and that's when the sheriff came out and said
they're suspects and then that's when the media came to us to say what's your opinion and we said we don't see
anything wrong with what the sheriff has said where the sheriff is we're with law
enforcement on this one because you know I'm not their defense investigator all right I'm the guy just trying to find
the body or the kid right and that's when all the miss that's when all the myths numerous went
out from from people that lived in Idaho Falls that knew the attorney that knew Jessica and vernal and I think you know
once people started going you know once you start putting that down in people's mind
uh you know I think they were trying to impune a jury pool I think they were uh but I I because I knew we were getting
close and then all of a sudden they made the decision they were going to sue us for contract violation and we were like
you can't sue us for that that and and because the truth is the Ultimate Defense that's our famous saying around
here the truth is the ultimate defense and there's been you know many people since 1992 that have tried to file some
type of legal action saying well you guys didn't do your jobs you didn't find my kid and we said well yeah we did it's
the body and this is again before DNA was real big and then they find out oh in fact they did and the suits dropped
to people that we've named as suspects and then the judges and the juries get a hold of the information and they go oh
no no no no these guys are not liable these guys know what they're doing because when we get on the stand we tell
the story and we tell it in a concise manner that people will understand so I think
I think that the misinformation plays started and I think once the lawsuit was filed Witnesses clammed up everybody
kind of went I don't want to be involved in that and the judge dismissed the lawsuit immediately not immediately I
think after about five six months the judge dismissed the lawsuit the interesting part of the lawsuit was it
was only Vernal suing Vernal and his father it wasn't Jessica didn't didn't sue us so what you're
saying out of the four people that were up there the mother the father and the grandfather know what happened
but maybe the mother's not saying anything because we're not suing you guys because she feels more guilty about
what happened yeah yeah listen I I met their attorney uh I like the guy I think he's a great guy I think she's a nice
guy uh he just was defending his clients he's kind of a bulldog which is fine you
gotta have you know he's he's not a Denny Crane he's not an allen Shore he's he's just one of those guys that shut
the hell up his pleadings are very very mean uh and and that's some attorneys I met nice attorneys mean attorney he's a
mean attorney I think that in the end um you know vernal's Daddy died right and um during the middle of the lawsuit uh I
think Vernal was out there on his own and we were fixing to start depositions and that was not going to go the right
way for Vernal uh because he knew that we knew everything and I and and I think he started becoming a little shaky but
we went ahead to the judge and said judge you know look uh they want to file a motion to dismiss with attorneys fees
we said no we're going to fight that we presented what we knew the judge came back after about a week and said no uh
Klein's good and his information is good the truth is the Ultimate Defense uh Mr
Coons you've lied over all this stuff uh and he said it you know kind of in a pleading he didn't come out and say
you're a liar he came out and just said no you know it's not working for you Mr Coons and the truth is the ultimate
defense and so therefore uh under uh under the law you are uh dismissing the case
only on dismissing the case but I'm giving Mr Klein's insurance company Mr Klein the opportunity to click their
legal fees which were well over a hundred thousand dollars immediately did a asset check on Vernal
and his dad's estate and they they don't they don't have any money they got zero
dollars uh so why would I want to spend another 25 000 to get liens on people that have no money I mean it's just a
waste of my money and it's a waste of time so we let it go we just let it go and I I think that uh at that point
Trina Clegg brought in a guy named David marshburn he's also a private investigator and
marshburn went out to the site and his dog interestingly enough we've never said this publicly because we've all
kind of just sat back and kind of wanted to watch what Marsh Byrne would do but marshburn sided up with uh
with uh uh Mr Browning that was uh Vero Kunis's lawyer marshburn's dog hit in the same place that we our dogs hit so
it's kind of like I found a bone and this is gonna blow this case wide open and all this other stuff we were like
well if you found the bone [ __ ] you're better than us yay and uh because you know we one thing we do here is we keep
a positive attitude we really do we keep a positive attitude it's not about who finds a child it's about finding the
child right so if people have other eyes yay go get them right that's what that's
the way we feel here okay so when marshburn started coming out on TV and radio and so oh I found my dog's
found scent and he went all over Facebook and he had pictures of himself up on Facebook and with the dogs and
everything we were like go Dog go let's go maybe we were wrong it's okay to be wrong right it's okay it's okay to be
wrong everybody looks at his that's terrible and horrible but it's okay to be wrong if you do it in good faith if
you do it in bad faith you lie and you're trying to get away with something that's bad but that's kind of how we
handled it well Marsh Burns bone turned out to be an old deer bone from back in they said I think they were telling us
it was uh oh my goodness back in 19 I think they said in the 90s the 80s it was just an
old bone from a deer uh and and all of a sudden Marsh furnace disappeared from the case
so that's been kind of interesting he's kind of disappeared but it did show up on YouTube with Mr Browning calling me
names calling my company names calling everybody names well and you see that with online sleuthers with YouTube
creators podcast creators where everybody wants to be the genius or the expert of a certain case and it really
doesn't matter who solves this case or who figures out where this boy is and how we get the remains back
as long as it gets done yeah and interestingly enough when we found out marshburn was involved
even a letter saying hey you may be better than us rah-rah let's go get them I'm gonna load
everything up into bankers boxes I've got to be out in South Carolina on a in a meeting or I was teaching I why don't
I just drive up the road and uh you know you and I can sit in a room and we'll grab some pizza and some coke and we'll
sit on the floor and you can go through every one of our files I have permission
from my client to allow you to go through every one of my files and you know what he said I don't want to go
through your files I don't want anything to do with you and that kind of went what what do we do to you dude
what why do we we didn't crap in your backyard what's going on so um you're the one that came and crapped
in our backyard so we're trying to extend uh you know a good faith gesture to you saying maybe you are smarter than
us let's go through the file together let's go through the interviews let's get a TV set up and we'll bring sticks
and you can watch every interview and you can you can do all this stuff and then if you want to do a podcast he does
podcasts we said if you want to do a podcast let's do a podcast together I'll answer any question you have let's work
together tell us to go below literally go screw yourself I think was the words and we were like and he cursed
me out like I've never used the f word and all these other words and we were like dude what are you doing what what's
going on aren't we supposed to all be working together Fine Again and uh so that's how marshburn came in
Philip let's go through some things real quick kind of short answers one yes no because there's a couple things I want
to make sure that we get to before we run out of time uh just to kind of answer some quick
rapid fire type questions check some boxes for those listening so what what you're saying is that you're through
interviews and through the your findings your evidence it is of your opinion that
there some kind of accidental death led to the death of this little boy and the parents then cover it up stop me
when I get to something that I'm wrong no you're right but he's near the sea of where they are air quotes camping
um and probably Vernal sitting there awfully nervous hoping they don't find what they've concealed so that it can be
moved later right and then your findings in things that you've uncovered suggest that were probably if
you were to find The Remains it's likely in in the landfill somewhere and then Bob Walton
uh passes away and basically he may not know exactly what happened but it sounds
like he wasn't willing to budge he may not have been there when it happened but he's
he's accepted it for what it is and choosing not to talk uh leading up to his death
and then the with Isaac he's a bit of a scapegoat because Mom and Dad can point to him and
go well he's kind of this weird guy that we don't really know and he's there on this trip but there's nothing to suggest
that Isaac was up to to no good and and Isaac is interviewed by you guys on multiple occasions he's the only one of
the four that is giving a consistent story and his story it sounds like to me is
I'm a the Dior was there the day before and then the next morning wakey wakey eggs
and bakey I didn't I don't see Dior after that exactly and so it so at some point
they conceal the remains and now bring us up to speed of some rather interesting finds that you guys
had as far as post offense Behavior as far as uh post cover-up behavior from Mom and Dad who just lost mysteriously
lost their two and a half year old little boy well at first no but we've had suspects do that all
the time Philippines normal a horrible terrible attack guy so we know right then okay you know something's coming so
a lot of the news media does the three-year anniversary of the five-year anniversary the eight year anniversary
and in these interviews they say oh we go up all of the time and we search for the baby up there in the mountains when
in fact we already know because consequently us and law enforcement are up there in the mountains kind of
watching who's coming and going they hadn't been up there they've never gone up there they've gone up there maybe one
time one time they went up there and that was to do an interview with the news media right
and so we kind of went hmm now this is during the litigation phase they were just trying to put on a good
front which is fine it's okay so that's the first thing the second thing is that we when you leave people alone
they have a tendency to be who they really are Vernal moves out of Idaho Falls and goes down to I guess Las Vegas
Nevada a little town Norfolk Las Vegas but we'll call it Las Vegas and he's going to be a trucker and he's doing his
Trucking thing and so during that time we get what we call a UC an undercover uh not an investigator but an undercover
plant and she makes contact with Vernal and vernal we start going hmm okay Vernal
you know what are you up to and so she makes friends with him and they're talking on the internet and they talk on
Facebook and then out of nowhere this UC starts sending us pictures that Vernal sent into himself very graphic
pornography pictures of himself to this girl and she goes what do you want us to do I
said Keep It Coming let's go let's see what he's all about and so that's one thing that happens so
we're kind of like okay in the pictures you can see some pretty scandalous stuff I don't really want to
talk about it because I can't test it and make sure it is what it is but some pretty scandalous stuff
then after that he figures out oh no I've been duped this is an undercover agent that undercover witness that is
clients put on to me and so he blows up and goes crazy so we in the process begin to
re-go back over our notes now there's a time period in there six month time period where we kind of let everything
just kind of go cool we just want everything to kind of go cool so when we decide to crank back up that
the client calls us another client calls us and says I'm sisters with this one I
want to get you guys back involved where like ah you know we've already dropped out we don't know then they say Please
Mr Klein would you do this and to Mrs gear and Mrs gear please so we do we say okay you know no money foundational
cover the expenses too at this point which by the way my company has about almost two hundred
thousand dollars invested in this case of our money right of our money not anybody else's
money of our money and people say why the hell the special people in the media say why the hell you do that well you
know what it's not about us and it's not about them it's about finding this little baby to put this little baby to
rest well when you do it as long as we do it and you're successful at it as we are
there's something inside your body and soul that tells you you can't walk away from it this is one of those cases I
just can't walk away I just I can't I can't I just see that little boy's face and it kills me because I have a little
grandson that you know has that same little face innocence happy you know a little blonde hair big boots you know a
little bit so we cranked back up and the first thing I want to do is thing called
a peer review y'all know peer reviews do you all ever talk about those where you
get other private investigators that are on your level too you send them the you
send them we call it the Box you send them the box and they go through everything you've done and some of those
can get pretty rough I mean they can say why did you do this why'd you ask this question I know a lot of them have asked
me that have reviewed my case why'd you throw the laptop across the room and it was just out of total frustration of
this guy I knew he knew what happened to that child I just knew Bob knew I just knew it you just know when you interview
as many people as we've interviewed I think when I saw homes start turning red and getting angry and you know the guy
was just kind of laughing at us and saying they can screw and have another baby and we were like what
I mean that's how blatant it is and so um the peer review came back to us and said no you guys are right on track
other than a couple of things you shouldn't have found the laptop you shouldn't have
oh I think there was a you should have confronted uh uh earlier you should have confronted uh
Vernal in person with what you had on the blood you should have you know there's a bunch of stuff we should have
done which looking back they're probably right I mean you know it was In the Heat
of the Moment and that sort of thing so we after peer review was done we said okay let's go back over everything we've
everything we have done and we did that and what we came back to is the missing uh cooler right and the
um dumpsters that were down at the bottom of the hill seven miles away and we started making out a path a
passage towards okay what if Vernal and Jessica went down there and they they watched the dumpsters and which would
fit the timeline it would fit everything right perfect and they got that cooler and they dumped it in the uh uh they
dumped it in the uh in dumpster interestingly enough the guy at the uh the guy at the uh a gas I went a gas
station the feed store uh did say yeah there was cooler on the truck so it just and so we kind of thought to
ourselves well you know maybe Vernon was going down to get ice there was no ice purchase so that was kind of a Miss by
us and law enforcement um and so uh at that point uh we kind of feel what happened the working Theory
we're working with now is that uh that he buried the body up there covered it up put it as all the people arrived
there was a guy out there directing traffic uh to where to park your cars and don't park it in the crime scene
area which is of course right there at the uh at the cattle guard right remember
the cap guard cowgirl comes into play in this thing and uh so we feel that uh the
working Theory we're working with based upon the information we've gotten from Witnesses is that uh that uh the the
cooler was most likely used uh buried there covered up after everybody left they eventually Somebody went back up
here and got that cooler and put it in the dumpster uh down south or in retrospect they laid the body there they
came down with a cooler put the body in the cooler and they sat down there and watched the uh uh the dumpster area and
when everybody was gone there was nobody else around because remember they were up there during a pretty busy period of
time uh they got the cooler and they threw it in one of the dumpsters and covered it up with trash
uh and the dumpster guy came and got it and I just got lucky hey God look [Music]
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thank you all right we are back cheers mates tall cans in the Air Canada to the people in the back very
fascinating stuff like I said to me it just paints a clearer picture and I have a way better understanding of the case
and and possibly what went down that that horrible tragic camping trip and the situation has
always been a strange one right Captain you got this missing child and part of you cannot
help but feel bad for the four individuals that were there on the camping trip the the great
grandfather the mother the Father the the friend Isaac because they're all wrapped up in this and and some of the
people on this trip have lost someone too right and that always makes it very conflicting when you're trying to look
at these stories and trying to tear through the details and get a better understanding of what happened because
you have that that that lingering thought in the back of your mind that these could be people that are
very much hurting as well well now what we're getting as you said a clearer picture a better understanding of what
likely took place within a 24-hour time period and it seems to be the the the most
impressive thing an alarming thing at the same time that's been uncovered by Klein investigations and Consulting
is that not only do the parents know what happened to their son but Vernal the father is steering the ship
and controlling the narrative and likely controlling some of the other players or
influencing some of the other players here in this matter yeah again lies upon lies but also
then asking for sympathy from the public this is this is where it just gets where you stop feeling bad for these
individuals and and you start questioning why aren't they just telling law enforcement the truth and exactly
you're exactly right there Captain because not only do we have other family members who are putting up their time
their money their resources into trying to assist in an investigation that will tell us what happened to Dior or in the
early stages hopefully find him but keep in mind in the early stages of this investigation
what what Philip Klein does not mention is that the general public came together
and raised almost thirty thousand dollars to assist Vernal and Jessica in in the hopes of finding their son yeah
and where is the the justice and where is the Peace for this little boy the only Justice the only piece that could
come for this little boy little Dior Coons is now in the hands of the investigators
is now in the people that are charged with investigating this case and figuring out exactly what happened let's
get back to our interview with Philip Klein so Philip you were talking about some of the weird actions of the father
but do we have any weird actions that we can speak about uh how the mother was acting afterwards yeah
she she she was very submissive very submissive to Vernal very submissive very and
we kind of were looking at that going did you threaten her and I tried to ask her the question she knew where I was
going with it and she wouldn't answer me she just went on to something else I asked you the question do you feel
threatened in any way you know by Vernal or anybody else in vernal's family or anybody in your family for that matter
uh you know we asked that question and she wouldn't answer it so we didn't find anything to pinpoint a more exact time
of when the cooler could have been moved after law enforcement we do know we do know the pickup times which was Tuesday
and Friday I think and so it would have been Friday of after that Thursday night
that it was picked up and moved uh or it was dumped into one of the bigger trucks
and the bigger trucks went out to the landfill so you can kind of assume what we're doing right now is we're going
through it's called uh it's called tagging landfill we're going out with what year because they keep track of
everything out those landfills they know they know what truck delivered it they know what truck picked up the trash what
truck dumped the trash where they know that stuff at the landfills so you know we're going through a period of Imaging
and marking and all the other good stuff that we do so if your guys's theory is correct on what happened and this is an
accident something bad happened they covered up so do you think the mother is just not coming forward because she is a
afraid for her safety if she speaks out of turn I think so I think the way she acted the way she dropped out of the
lawsuit you know Jacob and she'd give she'd given up her other two children to the daddy
um her other baby daddy um I I just think Jessica um I don't know what to say about
Jessica she's definitely a narcissist in my opinion uh she's definitely hiding something in
my opinion I think she's definitely knows more than she's telling the general public law enforcement and of
course she's never going to talk to us again in my opinion the smartest thing for Jessica to do is pick up the phone
and call us as PSB investigators Private Security Board investigators because we're civil we're not criminal we can't
charge her and sit down with us and tell us the story I'd hate to be Jessica Mitchell and carry this
on my in my heart in my back I I and knowing one day we all are gonna die right and knowing one day that she's
gonna die and she's gonna have to face our Lord and savior and if she ever gets a chance to see him I mean that's just
what I'm saying I don't know I don't I just don't know what else to say on that uh Jessica I believe is the
one that will break first uh and and finally say something either that or she's my belief is she's probably going
to end up in a mental institution I I there's she's gone through so many men she goes she picks bad men drug
addicts bad guys like I think vernal's a very bad guy I picks Vernal she doesn't
pick good men and uh I I think uh she's searching for something and uh you know and she and
you know when she's lying because her voice goes up two octaves and she screams so you know when you got her in
a lie and she never looks at you that's one thing that I always bothered me about her during the interview is uh my
interview with her was that she would never look at me she'd always look to the left and down and anybody who takes
any type of interview courses knows what that means they just they're they're trying to de-contact with you and
they're just trying to tell you a lie is there any evidence that the father was abusive towards the sun towards the
two-year-old or abusive towards his wife you know I I don't I don't I don't know
and that's always been a discussion now you're coming into the investigators conference room where we all sit and we
all are on the on I guess what we call it now Skype or whatever zoom and we're all in the room and we're all talking
and we're all going over okay well do you think Vernal could have beat the crap out of him and heard him high on
meth and I'm kind of like if he is he's a cold blooded killer but that's what the sheriff the old Sheriff
thinks if they won't come out and they were offered a deal you know everybody says well they were offered immunity
yes they were from a Class C misdemeanor if they won't agree to a Class C misdemeanor which is a traffic ticket
which is a 200 fine and if you're lucky a day in jail if they won't agree to that like the old Sheriff say Bowerman
said he looked me right in the eyes he said well if they won't take that deal what deal is it what did they really do
think about that did you guys uncover anything that I mean shortly after they come down off of the mountain that you
found to be odd behavior from yeah all over the place from the point of telling us that the baby was knocking on the
window talking to the guy that was pumping the gas to the guy that was pumping the gas there was no kid in that
car to the to the to the stage shop it was unusual for them to go into that long diatribe and say oh he was running
around everybody was laughing at him there was a long line of people we go back and look at the register inputs
there was no long line of people and and we talked to the lady that actually wrung it up and she said there was no
small kid in here to the Beer guy who said there was I never put anybody like that up in my truck to the truck guy
that said we found the truck guy he said no I never I never did that what are y'all talking about you know these are
the weird things these stories they made up that they really in in in my opinion
that they thought we would fall for Hook Line and sink yeah it's almost like they
didn't think anybody would check on their stories yeah nobody can check that they can't find these people it's a year
or two down the line now they can't find them well if you can't find them a year
or two down the line you're not a very good investigator right so I don't know we have a great team
here and they're really good at what they do and you know sure enough they walk in here with these long faces and
say yeah I found the I found the beer guy I never forget that uh Charlie walking in saying I found the beer guy
oh cool what'd the beer guy say did he Bentley you know did he played a little diority
so when they were offered this immunity basically from law enforcement did they have to show where the body was or
produce the body if they would have produced this body and they'd ran tests and did an autopsy
and and found out that their story wasn't true or they weren't being truthful they didn't could have been in
big trouble for that they could aligned to a federal agent that's big money right
you with me yeah but so law enforcement is just tell us the truth tell us what happened
I will charge you with is a misdemeanor that's what we'll charge you with is which is a misdemeanor
and they wouldn't take the deal so like the sheriff told me he said Philip he said I know you're not a you're not a uh
you're you're not a uh uh a criminal investigator but you're pretty good at what you do he said let me just present
it to you this way and that's how he presented it to me and I was kind of like wow you know what dude you're right
you're right they won't take a misdemeanor plea and they won't show us what happened with
the body now his attorney spun it big time his attorney spun it as oh well they just don't know and we were like
you don't know wait a minute what are you telling us here um I I again it's all just built on lies
and you can't and once you're presented with a lie that's it it's over okay we're we're we got you what Philip what
is the sex shop story that so okay let me set it up for you we call yeah well actually let me let me
Lead You In with this so Dior Coons and you you correct me if I'm wrong on anything Dior Coons Jr little
boy two and a half years old missing reported missing July 10th right and then we are spending all this time with
all these efforts with with lots of technology and resources up on the mountain looking for the little boy we don't find
him Saturday July 18th is Father's day and on this day Vernal spends the day camped out just yards away from
where his son air quotes disappeared from now where's the sex shop story taking place
so when we present everything we've got to Jessica Vernal sitting in the parking lot
in his car waiting on Jessica to come out one hour turns into five five hours turns into seven and then I guess
Jessica's mother shows up and the seventh or eighth hour and says okay that's enough we're done so she she
walks out uh Jessica walks out of the police station we're all just kind of we all in
another room watching the interview just shaking our heads Jessica walks out and gets in a car
and then vernals in that car now you would think after seven eight hours in an interrogation like you've never seen
an interrogation before they had nice people come in mean people come in they had psychologists come in I mean they
were really working her you would think a person would be so tired that they'd say just take me home I just want to go
home and take a shower I just I just I need to lay down right that's what I do I don't know about y'all and I'm a big a
couple glasses of wine so I'm a big strong guy carries a gun for a living I guarantee if I went if I went into that
type of atmosphere I mean I guarantee you I'd go home and say I'd sleep for a couple of days but
now they get in the car and they drive over to a sex shop they go into the sex shop and of course
we've got it all on video clone my winky okay they buy a product called clone my winky
I uh and and she's just out of an FBI interview and so they laugh and they're cutting up
and they're doing all this stuff well they immediately take it and take it home because there was not only we were
following them but the FBI was following them so it was like everybody's following
these people they go home and the lights go out and boom it's over for the day well we're sitting there going
what is this and that's when the sheriff actually got mad he said I'm telling you
she's some kind of narcissist and I was like she's some kind of something but you know I'm not a doctor of medicine
and I can't get like I can't give diagnosis but I've never seen that before even with people that were not
that were guilty they walk out there thinking aha I beat him again right I I've never seen that they've usually
walked out of there with tears in their eyes or they're red in the face or they're hungry or there's something
I I I've never seen that before there the both of them have a have in my opinion based upon how I've been trained
has some type of narcissistic personality disorder where as the sheriff said if it wasn't an accident
it has to be a murder or an intentional murder that's where law enforcement is right
now why would you hide the body why would you they don't you know why she spends
how many six seven eight hours an hour seven hours of actual interview time of video that we have but I'd say she'd
been in there for nine hours at least and and it's it's in reliving the traumatizing experience of losing your
child and and having no clue as to what happened to them and probably even being accused of
horrible things during that time period during the questioning and then to cap off the day on the way home we stopped
by the sex shop and uh celebrate yeah but yeah I don't know if I leaned towards that that's something wrong with
her more so that it's a it's like yeah but the captain's saying here is the power and control side of it right
Captain well yeah well yeah because what I'm saying is like you know that's an abusive tactic from from men to go well
in order for me to believe what you said to the cops you're going to do this sexual act for me or or whatever it is
so I wonder how how abusive you know verbally mentally you know that relationship was
um because to to me that doesn't seem like a a a a a thing a normal thing but I could
I could see an abusive man going okay well you know for me to believe you or or you owe this to me or whatever
yeah you're right on it you're right on it yep and and and I think he's in her ear you know
remember you go back to the video right the media video where they actually catch him saying
hey um you know you've got to say you've got to say in today tense not past tense and
she looks at him going what you know Screw you like rolling her eyes right right yeah that's a good way well I I
would like to see his phone records too uh to see if he he's the one calling her
mother to say you need to go in there and stop this uh you know what maybe I don't know
um you know vernal's been very interesting about his phone you know he tells us that it's the other great thing
Vernal I don't know if he I just don't know if he's stupid or what but we do have a audio tape of the 9-1-1 call from
Vernal 2911 about his son missing right and he's talking to him on the phone well I think we've kind of hinted at
what we have but we actually at the same time uh uh Jessica is talking to 9-1-1 right
saying my son's missing he's two years old well guess what we hear in the background
Vernal talking to 9-1-1 but he's supposed to be like a mile and a half down the road has that been released I
remember hearing Jessica's night one we're not really yeah law enforcements asked that not to be released because
that's going to be a that's going to be a huge uh that's going to be a huge part
of the case but everybody knows about it I mean the cops released it and said yeah this is what's happened this is
what's going on our original coverage of the Dior Coons missing persons case suspicious death investigation possible
homicide investigation case we released that in May of 2019 in episodes 305 and 306 and what Philip is talking
about right here in regards to the 9-1-1 calls because there were two one from Jessica one from Vernal you can hear in
our episode 305 timestamp 29 minutes and 38 seconds where Vernal is describing the 9-1-1 calls and that he and Jessica
are not in the same location when those calls are coming in these statements and what police find in
their investigation very quickly is that this is a discrepancy in their story that this is uh deception on both of
their behalfs and it sounds like vernal's 9-1-1 call has not been released to the public
Philip is there anything that we that we didn't touch on today that we we should
make clear for for the listeners in regards to this case before I don't know I think I think two things I think
number one I think most importantly of all of it most importantly I think that um when um
Vernal well I'm just going to say it this way I believe as y'all obviously think
um vernal's running the shop and he's letting trying to let the clock run out um and I think that that's kind of
interesting I think he's trying to say oh the longer goes the worse it'll be well the longer it goes I I'm sorry the
longer goes the better it will be the longer it goes in reality the worse it's going to be for him I
mean he needs to understand that no and he's got a wild card out there okay and her name is Jessica that's the wild card
and he can't you know now they're not married and now they they say they don't talk to each other I'm telling you right
now that you know one day she's gonna wake up that's the baby she birthed that's the baby that came out of her
uh is she the mother of the year award absolutely not she's she she wouldn't even get honorable mention but there's
an inherited part of a human being that knows when their child is dead they will
do anything it takes right it'll do anything it takes to come out of that horrible psychosis and say
oh my God my baby's dead I'm gonna make this better right does that make sense man I think that that's the other wild
card out there uh I think like I said before I'll say it again I think Jessica knows what happened and I think she's
keeping it underneath her skin I really and your professional opinion and your expert opinion what do
you think will happen well I think the sheriff up there you know there's only he's he the poor guy
he he has him and five deputies right that's it right and they work their butts off they work 12-hour shifts six
days a week and the sheriff is a dedicated guy I'll tell you what you'll never find
um uh you'll never find a better guy than than him and I think that he has a plan and I
think uh I think that he will come up with his plan uh I don't I don't want to say
anything about the sheriff in Lima County other than absolutely positive stuff right I just I just want to say
something very very positive um the media is scared now to report the case because of the lawsuit uh you know
uh East Idaho news who we had a good relationship with I don't think we have a very good relationship with him now
from what my staff is telling me uh you know they want no interest in being a part of the case now uh you know I I
don't know what to tell you uh about that I think the second thing is and most importantly is uh uh vernal's worst
nightmare is that the police officers are not going to give up just like we're not going to give up we're not giving up
on this child not gonna happen well we want to thank you for allowing us to be a part of your investigation and
informing I think it's very important and I'm just going to give you a little hint on this
one of the misnomers and I think you guys reported it as well is that the water runs into the small Lake up in
um up in ladore Idaho up at the campground it doesn't it runs out of the lake so if you if you look at the map
and you look at how the water runs out of that Lake it's just a it's just a snow runoff little Lake if you look
you'll go back and you look at Jessica Mitchell and vernal running around down there saying oh I'm fishing for tadpoles
or not tadpoles but little fish there's no little fish ing well thank you Phillip we really
appreciate your time today and bringing us up to speed on where the case stands today you're very welcome and
very important that's how we came upon you uh is that during our peer review uh and and uh your your uh your podcast was
put in there about this and we listened to it very closely and you guys do a great job thank you very much for what
you do for the missing [Music] thank you I want to thank everybody so much for joining us here back in the garage make
sure you share these cases on social media and Colonel do we have a recommended reading for The Listener well if you're
following the news you already know that one of the most notorious serial killers
to be apprehended in the last 30 to 35 years wedged right between Jeffrey Dahmer and the BTK Dennis Rader was
Theodore Kaczynski aka the Unabomber he was a serial killer domestic terrorist who's been locked up since 1996. Ted
Kaczynski was found dead in his cell the morning of June 10th with significant neck injuries and a depressed trachea by
the time he was discovered rigor mortis had already set in at least one source reported that Ted
appeared ghost-like and frail leading up to his death Ted Kaczynski was 81 years
old serving out a life sentence in the Colorado supermax facility but in December of 2021 Kaczynski was moved to
a prison medical facility many of the news outlets out there are saying the reason for kaczynski's transfer is
unclear however last year we interviewed true crime author Jamie Gehrig who told
us that Ted was diagnosed with cancer so with Ted in the news again this is a good reminder to go and check out her
book madman in the woods life next door to the Unabomber Jamie had the unfortunate experience of growing up in
the woods of Montana right next door to domestic terrorist and serial killer Ted
Kaczynski check out her book The Madman in the woods one of my favorite true crime books of 2022 two you can find
that great title and many more on our recommended page on our website truecrime garage.com and until next week
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DeOrr Kunz Jr. /// Part 2 /// 678

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarge.com (http://www.truecrimegarge.com/)

In the summer of 2015 a two-year-old went missing from a campground in Lemhi County, Idaho. According to the 911 call DeOrr Kunz Jr. vanished on the morning of day two of a weekend long camping trip. Little to no trace of him at all has ever been found. When the case broke everyone was looking for the little boy. Searchers looked for the little boy for ten straight days using every resource available to them at the time. When the search turned up little to nothing, the parents said little DeOrr had been abducted. The Sheriff’s department said that they have evidence that something else happened. Since then Private Investigators have been hired, fired, donated their time to the case and have been sued by DeOrr’s father. Klein Investigations and Consulting was one of those PI firms to join the case. This week in the Garage we are joined by one of the lead Private Investigators who continues to work this case to find DeOrr and get justice for the lost “little man.” We get insider and behind the scenes information about the case as an effort to make a strong push toward finally bringing this case to a close.

If you have ANY information at all that could help this case or that could lead to finding DeOrr Kunz jr. please call the Lemma County Sheriff’s Office at 1-208-756-8980 OR if you are not comfortable talking with Law Enforcement please call Klein Investigations at 1-409-729-8798 or go to www.KleinInvestigations.com (http://www.kleininvestigations.com/)

Thank you for your help and as always - Thank you for listening, and thank you for telling a friend. Cheers.

Brief Summary

Philip Klein discusses the investigation into Dior Coons' disappearance, revealing potential parental involvement and inconsistencies in their stories.

Key points

Ongoing Investigation. Little Dior Coons has been missing for nearly eight years, and the investigation continues.
Cover-Up Behavior. The parents of Dior Coons exhibit suspicious behavior following their son's disappearance.
The Undercover Revelation. The investigator realizes they've been duped by an undercover agent.
Emotional Investment. The investigator reflects on the emotional toll of the case.
Suspicious Behavior. The investigator notes the odd actions of the parents after the disappearance.
The Sex Shop Incident. After hours of interrogation, the parents go to a sex shop, raising eyebrows.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

What will you find?

0:54WatchJun 22, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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