Frauke Liebs /// Part 1 /// 679 | Forensic Files

hosting Thanksgiving dinner this year Butterball is here to help with all the turkey tips and tricks you need from how
big of a turkey to buy to how to carve it up butter ball can help make hosting easier so you can create lifelong
memories with friends and family because we know it's more than just a meal if you've got turkey questions we've got
answers call 1 1800 Butterball or text 844 877 3456 to chat with our Butterball turkey talk line experts Butterball
today we turkey when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands
at winning prices and with special financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your
mattress purchase helps give the gift of better sleep to children in need and US
Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today and make every snooze count financing is
subject to credit approval C store or Ashley .c for [Music] [Music] details [Music]
welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
with me as always is a man that would like to remind you that organized crime is harder than it looks here is the
captain yeah I'm stripping these cars like Tim Riggins it's good to be seen and good to see see you thanks for
listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend we are loving our selection for today's show today in the garage we are
drinking Clockwork by our good friends over at Brew dog Clockwork is a tangerine infused IPA brewed right here
in Ohio this is an oldtime favorite that is back for a limited time so don't delay because you will want to stock up
now this is a fierce Tangerine IPA that is hoppy and features honey Aromas garage grade 4 and 3/4 bottle caps out
of five and let's give some praise and thanks to our friends for helping us fill up our fridge for this week first
up a big shout out to Sam and Freddy listening in beautiful Denver and last but certainly not least we have a double
fisted cheers that goes out to Minnie and Michelle from Morgantown West Virginia everyone we just mentioned
captain they went to our website True Crime garage.com and clicked on the Pint glass
helped us out and for that we thank you yeah BW R beer run if you need more True
Crime garage for your earballs we have bonus content through the Apple podcast app all you have to do is subscribe it's
5.95 per month and it really goes long way to supporting the garage flying garage ship and Colonel that's enough of
the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
[Music] crime this week's episode takes us to Germany as we examine one of Europe's
most mysterious C cases a young nursing student froa Lees left a pub after watching a FIFA World
Cup game with friends and goes missing what makes this case so mysterious is the fact that she was
heard from but was never seen again for a week there was communication on more than one occasion
she called or text her roommate in fact there was at least one communic nearly every day for a
week some more terrifying than others all of this culminating into one very loud and scary end to the phone
calls that her family prayed for each day and then there was silence and then and
death froa Le's body was eventually found in a remote area called the death grounds in some of the communications
the young woman didn't seem like herself was it really her and regardless why did the
communication stop was this when she was killed and just exactly who placed her body on the death
grounds this is true crime garage and this is the case of froa [Music] [Music] leaves froa leaves was born February
21st 1985 she grew up in Lebec a small town of just about 26,000 people in Northern
Germany she attended primary school and high school where she studied education froch's nature was that of a helper so
whenever possible she was the type of person that she was always helping others helping other people even those
she didn't know after school she did a one-year internship at an institution for the disabled after this she decided
to move to a larger City and study nursing so she would have a wider range of job opportunities so she moved to a
city called pbor or pbor I've heard it pronounced both ways this Captain is a city that is located about an hour and
10 to an hour and 15 minutes away from her hometown so it's not like she's moving clear across the country she's
moving to a somewhat nearby City froa made the move in October of 2005 and at that time she was 21 years old she was
leaving behind her family of four her mother father sister and brother all who would play key roles in our True Crime
Story later of course when they are trying to locate their loved one and it's not like she was moving to an
unknown City to herself or that she had no connections there she was going to be
moving in with a a lifelong friend not moving there completely on her own as you said Captain she's
already established a place to live and this she would be sharing an apartment in pbor with Christos Coralis so
Christos went to school with froa back in their Hometown and they had been in a relationship back when they were both
teenagers they broke up after four years together but remained really good typ friends froa dated someone else after
Chris but that had run its course as well and when she moved to pbor she was unattached so she and Chris shared an
apartment at borer Strauss 56 that's the address each of them with their own bedrooms but they would do a lot of
things together here Captain they would grocery shop together socialize somewhat
together and cooked and hung out together sometimes but each was busy with his or her own life their own
schedule their own friends and their studies right Chris had a girlfriend that he was seeing at the time and froa
had a Social Circle of her own froa had only been in pbor for about nine months when our true crime tale picks up during
that time she was studying nursing at St Vincent's Hospital froo was very outgoing and a confident young woman she
was liked by everyone because of her giving nature her friendliness and her acceptance of all types of people she
made some really good friends through her nursing program and enjoyed going to pubs and clubs she was a people person
who loved being around others yeah only in the city for 9 months but developed some relationships close relationships
because one she treated everybody like they were a friend but it's a lot easier to move to a city if you have one a job
you're going to meet friends at that through that job and especially when you're going to school with like-minded
individuals you're going to create a lot of relationships in a small amount of time one thing that I think is key here
that we should discuss and this is something that we know about froa this according to
all they say that she was not the type to go home with someone that she did not know
it's well reported that she was intimate only with men if she was in a relationship with them a long-term
relationship with them when we get to the details of The Disappearance it will be clear why we went out of our way to
mention that here now something that could have direct ties to her disappearance she had a constant online
presence under her moniker sweet Corey in fact she met a lot of her friends that that way on various sites on the
internet froch's mom said her daughter always had her phone in her hand and that texting was her number one hobby
later the lead investigator on her case his name Ralph Osterman would say she chatted with God and the World online
and his team has always suspected that her killer may have come across her there yep we said killer that's because
unfortunately froa was killed at the young age of just 21 years old but first weird stuff almost hardto believe stuff
happened in this case let's go through the events leading up to her disappearance this puts us at Tuesday
June 20th 2006 and we have ingred who is fr's mom she came to town to take froa to dinner Chris the roommate joined them
and the three went to a cafe froch's schoolmate and friend her name is Isabella text her at some point saying
that her and some friends had a sweet spot at a local pub and the football games were on that year Germany was
hosting the World Cup and Germans like most people in the smart countries love to go to pubs drink beer and watch
football no matter the definition of applied to the name of the sport Germany had won its match earlier that day they
defeated Ecuador 3 to nil but the Sweden England match was scheduled for that night so after ingred left Chris dropped
froa off at the pub where Isabella and the other friends were this is The Old Triangle Irish pub in laori gallery
neighborhood of perb Chris then went home now Chris for whatever reason did not have his apartment key on him so he
took froch's key after dropping her off the arrangements were set he told froa he would wait up for her and let her in
since the external door to the building would be locked now this something this is something captain that
might seem odd to people here in the states that he drove to the cafe with the mom had dinner drops her off and
then needs to take her key to the apartment because here in the states we typically put our house and Apartment
keys on our key ring with our keys to our cars or our vehicles MH there they walk a lot of places and more often than
not we'll walk so it wouldn't be terribly uncommon to keep your keys separate he left his key at the
apartment needed to take hers and said he would wait up for her when she returned later that night and probably
because Germany was hosting the World Cup that more Germans were just more excited about any matchup and this Pub
was packed and it was pretty Rowdy for this event and Germany was one of the favorites that year they were one of the
better teams that year so there were high expectations for the Germany team the crowd at at the pub like the captain
said they're having a good time it's a loud crowd they're engaged in the game froa is having fun with her friends but
she's also madly texting some guy named Neil and remember we have everybody telling us especially her mother ingred
said texting was her number one hobby right so she's at the party but busy on the phone we all know that person this
would have drove me nuts I would have said get off your phone pay attention to the game be present be
present in the moment I I hate it when you're trying to visit with somebody and they're just texting away it's it's a
sign of I don't want to be there I don't want to be hanging out with you well in
her defense we'll say you know it's Sweden versus England maybe her head's not in the game she's there being social
but the person that she's texting is this guy named Neil and this is somebody that was recently introduced to her so
maybe she had an interest in pursuing Neils and this was somebody that in fact her friend Isabella who we already
mentioned introduced the two of them just a few weeks earlier so it's not somebody that she just met online she
has met this person in person through a friend through a good friend and it sounds like Isabella knew this knels for
quite some time before making the introduction between the two and according to Isabella she thought that
Neils and froa hit it off real well and stating that their relationship was just
as friends at this point in our timeline now Neils was actually working a late shift that night so he couldn't be there
in person froo was trying to get him to come to the pub after his shift but he had plans to go out with a friend to
shoot some pull after this texting what we have here Captain she's on the phone so much I don't know how much
battery life she showed up to the pub with but all this activity on her phone during the soccer match kills her
phone's battery so her friend Isabella gives her her phone battery so she can continue to text the two shared the same
common model of Nokia phone remember nokas were pretty popular in the early 2000s froa continued texting Neil after
getting the new battery and even other people now one thing we got to be clear here is we know that her and Neils were
texting back and forth that night law enforcement has said that froo was texting
others we have never received information as to who those others were right um we don't know
if it was a whole bunch of other people one other person all we are told is that
it was Neils and others during that game the game wraps up around 1100 p.m. and I
question this time a little bit uh but not not big time I bet you it's a little after 11: p.m. and we'll get into that
very quickly so froa after the game she's going to want to get home and she even indicated to her
friends that she wanted to get home fairly quickly because she did not want Chris to have to wait up for her until
the we hours right because he's got to wait up and let her in so she leaves after telling her
friends that she's going home on foot by herself that night and as we know unfortunately she never made it home
well something that we need to probably explain a little bit because bar culture
in America is a lot different than Pub culture over in Europe and I can't speak highly of uh or I can't speak that
intelligently on the pub culture in Germany as it's probably different than England but in England a lot of pubs
close at 11:00 p.m. 12:00 p.m. they don't stay open until the wi hours of the morning so this is not froch's final
communication with a friend or a family member as we talked about in today's trailer so at 12:49 a.m. on June 21st
she sent a text to her roommate Chris the text says I will be home later the game was fun not against England smiley
face emoji i l y VM see you later so this text according to Chris makes total sense because he says
that previously the two discussed that they were hoping that Germany would not have to play
England in the first round right as it got later and later and froa not arriving home to the
apartment he tried to stay up he he he wanted to stay up and let his roommate in eventually he has to go to bed but
before so he tries to call her on her phone and gets no answer So eventually he decides to go to sleep with his
bedroom door open hoping that if she does arrive later than planned that he would hear the doorbell wake up and he
could let her in and I don't think we have details of this call because right when I hear that oh while the roommate
trying to call her did it go right to voicemail I'm guessing that it didn't just for the fact that it's never
mentioned it just he placed a call she didn't answer correct and what we do have here this is one thing that's
tricky about this case is that the information regarding the text and the calls a lot of that's coming from the
persons that either received the call or the text or attempted to place a call right rather than law enforcement so
what we have here you're exactly right Captain he may have tried more than once to call her but according to what Chris
has told everyone he tried to call her we don't know how many times and his simple statement is that he got no
answer So eventually he decides to go to bed hoping she would ring the door he would let her in that never happens the
next morning Chris's phone rang and he's hoping it's his roommate but it's not it's Isabella her friend looking for
froa right this because froa did not show up for class that morning at 8:00 a.m. so Chris is going to investigate he
finds fr's bed made and her room looked to be untouched and he didn't hear her come in that night knowing that she
would be locked out he quickly figures out she never came home and he says this is incredibly well out of character for
his roommate so this puts Chris into like instant panic mode he starts calling around he calls froch's family remember
he he had a relationship with her she's his roommate he went to dinner with her and her mother the night before
he knows her family well so he calls ingred froch's mother and says look your daughter didn't come home last night I'm
worried her friend Isabella who I dropped her off with last night call says that froa didn't show up for school
this morning right I'm character for exactly and Mom's now worried too because they both agree this is not
normal for my daughter this is not normal for my roommate and this is why the question of when she left the pub
becomes very important because if she would have left right after 11 it doesn't take her that long to get
back to our apartment so you get this text almost you know closer to 1:00 a.m. saying I'm
going to be home soon so then you go well if she left about 11: you got a 2hour Gap there in time exactly and
here's the thing too what we have here is we have Mom and roommate springing into action immediately we like to see
this in these cases and we even have the two of them calling around this is you know they're calling even hospitals to
see if maybe she was involved in some kind of accident or or or whatever Mom decides hey I'm going to
call the local police force and report my daughter missing and she doesn't get the best information
that she wants right first they're saying you know you you need to call the area where she's missing from and number
two she's not been missing for very long she's an adult she has the right to stay
out all night and not come home to her apartment she doesn't even live with you guys and so ingred decides to take it up
a notch Crank It Up to 11 she called a friend a personal friend on a local police force who then called an
acquaintance on the pbor police so now we have pbor who they're going to kind of work it a little bit kind of work it
on the DL um but all everything that they did that day checking any accidents reports and
so on it turns up nothing so again we have family and friends who are ready to spring into
action they actually start putting up Flyers later that very day uh and these are just Flyers saying you know asking
for information you know call us if you if you've seen her or if you know where she could be but Captain I think you're
honing in on something and and I like the cut of your jib there boy uh let's examine what we can about froa walk home
that night The Old Triangle was located in the inner city part of pbor whereas her apartment was south of that so just
about 1.5 km so less than a mile away right there were essentially two routes that
she could have taken on foot I guess three if you were going to count like one side road which would lead to one of
the main roads that she would have taken but two primary routes and a possible third but so the first would be via
labori Berg cutting over to wakin Strauss so this is about 1.3 km it's estimated to be approximately a
16-minute walking time the second was exclusively via that very hard word to say Road wakin
Strauss also 1.3 kilomet again about 16 minutes just to be clear we don't need people sending us emails or comments on
mispronunciations of any of these locations uh we're doing the best we can and being as respectful as we can as we
are just to dumb idiots in the garage well I don't know that we're dumb idiots but we are two garage guys that
certainly yes we are flunked out a German in high school I did not actually flunk out I did take a one semester I
did not take any semesters the third route Captain was via wood fried Strauss this was the longest of the
three potential routes that she could have taken this is 1.6 kilm with an estimated walking time of 20 minutes so
exactly what the captain pointed out just a few seconds ago right that this would have been a relatively quick walk
we have an estimated walking time of 16 to 20 minutes so let's highlight a couple of items
here before we move on the approximate time of froa leaving the pub according to our notes is sometime
after 11:00 p.m. that text to Chris her roommate comes through at 12:49 a.m. remember we
just mapped out 16 to 20 minutes walking time for froa there's a big gap there between that text that comes in
and the time that she left the pub even even if let's say at the far stretch of it right friend saying that
she left sometime after 11 nobody says she left at midnight or after midnight I would believe that that would indicate
that this is closer to 11:00 p.m. 11:10 11:15 p.m. not closer to midnight but let's say by some crazy chance that
leaving after 11:00 p.m. to them ended up meaning 11:59 p.m. mhm it still would would not take
her you know it still would not take her 50 minutes to walk from that Pub to her
apartment it would take 16 to 20 minutes well no and again it wouldn't take like
you said it wouldn't take 50 minutes for her to walk back home but also if you got back home in 50 minutes you wouldn't
be texting at your doorstep hey I'm going to be home soon correct so we have a few options here of what could have
gone down one maybe the eyewitnesses were just completely wrong and it was past midnight closer to one that seems
unlikely to me or was there a pub on this route that maybe she could have stopped at maybe she had some friends at
maybe she knew some of the workers there but we have no evidence that that happened what we do have evidence of is
all night she's trying to get a gentleman to come out and see her he already has plans so it makes me wonder
did she decide I'm going to go meet up with him for just a little bit and then I'll head home so what we have here
Captain is on the short side of it we are missing about 30 minutes of time and to the great extent of it it would be 1
hour and 45 minutes that is missing from our timeline here that are unaccounted for for our victim so much more to dive
into with this case and so much more communication through the phone let's get back into this after this quick beer
[Music] break this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or
even anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
better help visit betterhelp.com Garay to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
hp.com [Music] garage sister be quiet and the D just threw a ball over my shoes why does
none of this bother me could it be this spacious gy the spacious new Volkswagen Atlas it
does life beautifully is it possible to predict the unpredictable could surgeons use a
patient's own Anatomy to create 3D printed life-size organ models to map out challenges ahead of time making
surgery more precise efficient and less invasive is it possible it already is because every day we're doing what's
never been done learn more at mayoclinic.org Sloss Mayo Clinic you know where to
go Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been using the rap to learn French
and it's not just about memorizing words but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25
languages right now Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language
unlimited access forever for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check
out rosettastone.com it's a [Music] GameChanger all right we are back cheers mates and
cheers to you Colonel cheers Captain cheers to the people in the sides and the back
now what has to be said about this case is that the police were slow to take the
case on part of that is precisely because of the factors that make this case so intriguing we have
communications from the victim who at the time is just simply missing and may not be a victim at all as far as
law enforcement is concerned or there's no evidence to suggest that she's a victim of any type of Foul Play so we
have these communications that for the most part do not seem to indicate Foul Play but those who know froa say
differently the family and Chris her roommate told the police that froo was reaching out in apparent distress now
not from this first communication but we're going to see a additional ones that we are going to get into real
quick but because the police were not involved in the investigation the calls unfortunately were not recorded and thus
had to be reconstructed from memory we need to point out here captain that different Publications in Germany
have different wording but we are going to do the very best to give you the gist of what was
said well right and again we know with eyewitness reports there's going to be some level of error and that happens
also when you're a ear witness right they're again they're giving these statements off of memory because there
is no recording the text different situation that's easy to to research and and figure out the wording so froa is
gone for months before her body is found but for about the first week that she is gone there are
these what could be deed deed as somewhat normal somewhat abnormal and somewhat cryptic Communications via
calls and text from froa before the silence most of the communications were with her friend and roommate Chris so
let's go through this communication timeline here June 20th sometime after 11:00 p.m. she leaves the pub June 21st
12:49 a.m. there's a text sent this is the one that we've already discussed saying I will be home later
the game was fun then Captain we have nothing until roughly 45 half hours later so a lot of time
goes by this is when we got family and friends putting up posters they're looking for her they're calling people
trying to locate froa they get nothing but what they do get is 452 hours after after that text that came to
Chris there's a phone call this is on June 22nd Chris was at his father's house when his phone rang at
10:25 p.m. it was froa she says hello Christos I wanted to say that I am fine and that I'll be home
soon tell Mom and Dad and the others she hung up immediately Chris did not have an
opportunity to ask froa any questions about where she was or what she was up to or why she's been gone for so
long Chris who arguably knew froa better than anyone else at the time was alarmed by this brief call and
he went on to tell the media and law enforcement that for one part of it he he said that froa didn't sound like
herself she was speaking in a very monotone voice her voice was very flat he said that she was usually very
animated and she called him kristos which he says rarely happened that froo would
usually call him Chris and only used kristos when she was angry at him yeah it makes me wonder if this was a
recorded message I think that's a good point I I think what we may have here Captain is the chance that this could be
either like you said a recorded message or if she's being watched and maybe a script was laid out for her
right and any variation of this script that I've I I'm telling you that you can you can say we're going to have a big
problem and we can't it's difficult for us to sit here in the garage and have any clue what the repercussions of that
that may be so yeah and and a couple things here if if you're kristos is you're one
you're going okay weird interaction or lack of interaction on the phone but you know people go missing maybe she went to
a friend's house you know maybe there was an accident maybe something happened I'll get the answers later tonight when
I get home but but you definitely think that there' be some red flags popping up in
his mind oh yeah big time red flags and so he is immediately alarmed by this call I it's weird right because there's
got to be some relief balanced by that of alarm there's relief because she finally called she's
been missing now for like we said almost 48 hours almost two days but alarm because she doesn't sound
like herself and she's to me when I review that call it doesn't make any sense to
me and I and we can get into to the wording of everything but the actions that happen immediately is Chris calling
froch's family and he's like look I just received this call immediately they're telling him
look we understand why she would call you first and not us right because you're the
roommate uh we are harder to get a hold of than kristos is and she was last in communication with you she likely would
be the first one to see you would she return and on top of that they live in another city yeah he's local exactly so
he he tries to relay best he can what the wording of the call was and why he was alarmed by the call and they agreed
that they too were concerned about the call so now the the family fr's family and Chris they all gathered together at
the apartment at fr's apartment to wait for her after all she said she'd be home
soon and unfortunately again she never arrives of course they're trying to call her cell right but those calls were not
answered and there's I don't think there's a lot of details on on when they started trying to call her
cuz look if I talk to somebody I thought the interaction was strange or there wasn't interaction on the phone I might
try to text that individual or call them right back but there's no indication that that happened there's also no
indication that that did not happen right so what I think here is likely that I mean that we we are told that
there are several calls placed to herself cell by multiple people after that phone
call look if you talk to a friend on the phone and they they they call and give you two they've been missing for 2 days
and give you two sentences and then hang up and don't even say goodbye I think I'm calling back right
away right so let's review this real quick hello kristos I wanted to say I am fine and that I'll be home soon tell Mom
and Dad and the others hang up yeah here's my thing about the the Christos right she doesn't call him that but
if okay let's just say she's she's at this point we we believe that she was kidnapped right correct I do yeah so the
kidnapper is saying who are we going to call we got to call somebody oh we can call my friend Christos and that's
probably what she would tell a stranger his name right she' use his full name she's not going to tell a
stranger you know well his name is Christos but I actually call him Chris and it or it could be by Design on
her part to say yeah we're going to call Christos I'm going to use the term Christos cuz it's going to spark a red
flag in his brain of why is she calling me by my full name I think you're see that's where I think you're exactly
right Captain because we know she's a smart young woman you know she's educated uh she's hardworking we know
that she's personable she's outgoing so she's probably a fairly good communicator what I'm getting at here is
that those two sentences make no sense I get what Chris is saying she called me Christos that's weird but one thing here
that is a possibility is is he saved is his is his contact information saved in her phone under kristos and not Chris
right and if this message that she's giving is scripted by someone else as you pointed out they would not
know that she calls him Chris they would only know that when her phone rang 40 you know hours ago when she was late
getting home never came home and he starts calling her phone it kept coming up kristos kept coming up kristos if you
are trying to hide something or if you are trying to scrub the trail and do that by
communicating the person you're going to reach out to is the person that was calling
repeatedly the night that you abducted this young woman yeah and the person that they last had text communication
with I'll be home shortly here's the other thing too the last sentence tell Mom and Dad and the
others I'll be home soon tell Mom and Dad and the others if I'm talking to my friend uhuh I'm saying tell my mom and
dad and the others if I'm talking to my brother or sister I would say tell Mom and Dad and
the others right because we share the mother and the father I to me it it almost looks like a
couple things not just that the the person that that scripted this didn't not know to call him Chris
but also may have made an assumption that they were that was her brother right so there there's a bunch of things
here and and when we cross reference this communication yes this is a phone call and the prior communication 45 A2
hours earlier was a text but in that text Captain that to me seems like that's her right there's the inside joke
or the inside mention uh reference to hey something we talked about earlier England winning we didn't or England
tying I believe they ended up tying that game right but uh enjoyed the game all of that seems like like very personable
stuff some of it even personable between her and kristos where this almost seems
very disconnected from froa life and Christos their relationship like the person that put these words together
does not fully understand the meaning of their relationship yeah but R riddle me this
Batman if you're the kidnapper why let her have any communication at all that's a good question because that's a psych
that I cannot sit here and claim to have an understanding of because if you were
trying to buy some time right you make the call earlier in the day and you go okay well I'm going to be
home shortly I'll be home this evening so now you got this time period where people are going to be waiting oh she
made Communications she's going to be home the early evening comes we can't find her we'll wait a little bit longer
okay now we start Comm trying to contact her phone but it's so late that it's like well I'm
going to be home shortly it's now a very small window that if she doesn't return
home you're questioning this call anyways but but I don't see what the purpose for the kidnapper would be other
than some like that's why when we came back from the break I pointed out the communications because what we do know
happened in this case the police were slow to get involved because of these communications right so if that was the
purpose of the abductor allowing this to happen job well done it [ __ ] worked it worked and then now let's go
back to the to the sick end of end of it the psychosis end of it Larry Jean Bell
who we talked serial killer that we talked about talked to John Douglas about he abducted two different girls
and for his own pleasure allowed them to communicate with their family members in fact he
communicated with their family members in conversation so it could either be to throw the cops off so they don't get
involved like we know happened here or it could just be some kind of sick fetish some kind of sadistic
torture that this person chose to roll out on this victim yeah it's a it's a mind it's a mind F situation
yeah and I also think maybe you have this person you kidnapped them they're now a prisoner and you're trying to show
them some good faith I keep telling you if you just do what I ask you to you'll live right mhm so in good
faith you you did what I asked you to do I'm going to let you call home right you
have a hostage situation what happens we need you to you got you got 20 people held host
we need you to send out one oh you you want us to send in food and uh you know this or that on
your list of Demands well we need something in trade we need you to send out uh two hostages and we'll give you
this and I think we talked about this a little bit in the Oakland County child killer case remember in that case one
thing that people were fascinated by is that all of the victims when they were recovered it was reported that they were
clean even though they had been missing for days and days and days that they were clean and appeared to be
wellfed I've always believed in that case and we know that there's a huge sexual element to that case I've always
believed that whatever was being done to those victims part of it may have been in
trade saying okay yeah I look I don't want to have to fight you or force you to do this but I will if I have to but
if you if you make it easy on me well you'll get pizza for dinner you'll get to take a
shower uh you'll get clean clothes yeah you'll be able to make contact with the loved one in this situation like you
said it may be that they have promised look I I know that you don't want to be here I know
that I'm holding you against your will I know that I'm doing things to you that you do not like that are horrible but if
you don't make this any more difficult called than it has to be I will let you live and proof of that is
oh here's here's the little you know just like you give a dog a treat here's the little treat the little reward quick
phone call to your roommate or quick phone call to person who was calling you two days
ago this is proof of of of my word of my handshake that yes I will let you go if
you don't make this any more difficult than it has to be one it could be also all three happening at the same time yep
you know I'm going to make this deal with you but I kind of get off on the idea of you making contact anyways but
I'm going to control that situation too and by controlling that situation and having you do what I say there's a a
type of um gratification or there's some type of enjoyment that I get out of controlling that situation and also
maybe this puts the the police off for a little bit okay great that gives me some
more time because the more especially with a kidnapped victim you're going to keep that victim
in your possession as long as you feel that you're safe and that nobody's on to you you don't have to get to the end of
do I release her or do do I kill her and have to dispose of her you don't have to
get to that crossroads until you feel ental a sense of urgency or a sense of uh or or the fear of being caught
grows even more if that makes any sense so one of the and this is very this is hardly ever reported on but one of the
items we we've talked on this show about extensively about when John Douglas and Robert wrestler would go
travel around the country and interview these different serial offenders serial killers who have been apprehended some
of them in you know locked up for years and they would interview them for hours and one thing that they learned from a
lot of The Killers the serial killers were things that the serial killer was trying to improve on with each victim
what he was learning from the first victim the mistakes he made and ways that he could make the experience better
for him with victim number two and make it less likely for him to get caught with victim number two or anything that
anything he thought was too risky with victim one of course they're trying to learn that but one thing that is very
scary that some of the serial killers this would be the sadist that said this to wrestler and
Douglas one thing they were trying to learn or one thing they were surprised of with victim number
one is it they thought they died too quickly or died too easily some of the things they wanted to do to the victim
they weren't able to do to them because they died in the course of the torture and they were trying to learn
how they could torture the victim longer before they died and so that's one thing
that we could be seeing here as well because what we do know about this case is that she unfortunately whatever was
going on whatever was happening she unfortunately was alive there's no disputing that for about a week after
she disappeared now Ralph Osterman who we've already talked about the he would be the lead investigator on this case he
would later say that this is when the the the family became aware that she was being held hostage
that's when they first firmly believe that you know what this is confirmation of her being held hostage she calls with
a two- sentence call and hangs up and the the call doesn't make sense and and she's not responding to our calls right
well again it's like the two lines I'm not that worried about it's the fact that there's it's not a
communication it's not there's no interaction right that's so bizarre I mean could you imagine you this person
has been missing for a couple days you've been worried sick now they're talking to you and and you say something
and they just hang up the phone that's I mean that that' be very difficult the TV stations started showing fro
photo at this time and the police they spoke with everyone that they could think of this would be
froch's friends co-workers and schoolmates to see if she could possibly have left town with any of them they
spoke with everyone that was at the pub that night they they did their best to track all of them down and talk to them
they go out and they speak with Neils the the newish friend that she had and he says that he has no idea
where froa could be on Friday June 23rd at 11:04 p.m. Chris receives a text from
froch's phone this text says I'm coming back home today I'm in pbor or pbor Chris got no response when he texts
her back he again tells fr's family that he received a text saying that she's coming home fr's brother Frank hearing
that her phone was back on he tries calling her and she picked up well and see here
here's what I wonder too is so she again makes a short call statement I I'm I'm in pbor I'm coming
home almost implying that she was somewhere else I was in another city now I'm here coming home and I'm guessing
that there was extensive amounts of calls back to her phone to the point where somebody said I got to let her
answer yeah this is her brother Frank and here's how he remembers the call Frank says that he said froa where are
you what are you doing when are you coming home froo responds I'm coming home today not too late I'm in pbor or
pbor don't ask ask I will be coming home Frank then says where are you froa says
I can't say and then she hangs up the phone and he would say her brother would say that she
sounded normal alert but cryptic almost like she's yeah somebody's watching her yeah and so now we have the family who
they wait in her apartment all night long again nothing again I think some of this stuff comes
down to maybe the kidnapper thought he was going to let her go but he again wasn't at that crossroads yet and you
once you get to that crossroads then you have to he has to then fully decide he has to fully commit if I let her
go what are the chances that this comes back to me and the police are still not heavily
involved in this case but what we have at this time is remember we have her picture that's being broadcast on
news stations and we have the police who are issuing a statement asking froa to please contact her
family the next call was to the roommate again again to Chris this takes place on June
24th at 2:22 p.m. so this is 2 days after her first call to Chris this is two days after and one day
after the communication via text to Chris and the uh phone call from her brother
so note this is the only communication in the series that takes place during day day time hours all the other calls
in text so far have been late at night and this call is again to the roommate and it's froa saying I'm not
coming back so late I come home tonight Chris says are you hurt froa says no I'm in pbor I'm in peror I'm in
pbor and then hangs up the phone and of course anybody's going to think that this is weird why would would
anybody mention the city per born three times in a row but of course Chris and froa family they're saying that they
believe that this was some type of message that she's trying to to deliver some type of message to
them Chris did um sorry Chris did describe fr's voice as sound blurry is the word that he
used and by this I'm wondering if he means that she was slurring her words or sounded sleepy something of that nature
right or or is he talking about the connection again the the big misstep here is that police are not involved
they're not involved it seems like because of these communications which is ridiculous and so nobody's recording
these calls to me these communications that are strange is an indication that we should
be involved if if this girl goes missing and a couple days later they're getting
these weird Communications with the family at this point it's it's even more hands on deck because look people call
all the time hey uh a family member of ours didn't show up to school today it's very unlike them
please go okay well we'll take a note of this but hey if you make contact with her or she shows up please let us know
and a high percentage of missing person cases That's How It Ends couple hours later they find the person open and shut
case but what doesn't happen that often is these weird cryptic Communications so if the family then
calls and says hey you know remember when we told you our our loved one didn't show up for school well a couple
days later we get this weird call from her and we've had weird Communications with her if I'm law enforcement to me
I'm going ding ding ding dingding this person is now endangered they're in a dangerous
situation all hands on deck because we still H at this point we know that she's alive we have the
possibility if we find her we could save her and it's almost like in this case law enforcement did the
[Music] opposite want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage and sharing these cases on social media and
telling your friends about the garage podcast until tomorrow be good be kind and don't
[Music] litter is it possible to predict the unpredictable can 3D printed life-size
organ models help to map out complex surgeries ahead of time is it possible it already is right here Mayo Clinic you
know where to go

Frauke Liebs /// Part 1 /// 679

Part 1 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

On June 20th of 2006 Frauke Liebs, a 21 year old nursing student disappeared under very strange and mysterious circumstances. She was met with foul play sometime around or after midnight. That night she was out with friends watching a FIFA World Cup match at a pub. Frauke planned to walk home. After leaving the pub there have been no confirmed sightings of her since. But she did text and call her roommate several times after her disappearance. This is one of Germany’s most intriguing open cases. This week Nic and the Captain also discuss The Lonely Hearts Killers.

Beer of the Week - Clock Work Tangerine from BrewDog

Garage Grade - 4 and half bottle caps out of 5

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

Froa Lees, a nursing student, vanished after a World Cup game, leaving cryptic messages before her body was found in Germany.

Key points

The Mysterious Disappearance of Froa. A young nursing student goes missing after a night out with friends.
Froa's Last Night. Froa texts friends during a World Cup match but never makes it home.
Missing Timeline Gaps. There are significant gaps in Froa's timeline after leaving the pub, raising concerns.
Alarming Phone Call. Chris receives a brief call from Froa, alarming him due to her unusual tone.
Suspicious Communication. Froa's communication with Chris raises red flags about her well-being.
Kidnapper's Strategy. The discussion revolves around the kidnapper's potential motives for allowing communication.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's more than just a meal.

Discussing the importance of Thanksgiving dinner.

0:12WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.