Delphi Murders /// Under the Bridge /// Part 1 /// 509 | Forensic Files

thank you [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that knows that fortune tellers make a killing nowadays
here is the captain call me old Swami it's good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
telling a friend [Music] this week we are featuring Black Tuesday Grand Reserve 2020 by the incredible men
and women over at the brewery if you're looking for them online that's spelled b-r-u-e-r-y this is a delicious triple
barrel aged Imperial Stout with a whopping 22 percent ABV so drink this at home in your garage grade 4 out of five
bottle caps and a very special thank you to Thomas from Dallas PA for sending this beauty to us here at the garage a
big shout out goes to Jennifer from Ravena Ohio next up Captain we have Lena sending her love all the way from Sweden
a big weed like your jib to Henry in New Rochelle New York next we have Cheryl and West Columbia Texas and last but
certainly not least we have Audrey and Boone North Carolina everybody we just mentioned went to True Crime garage.com
and they helped us fill up the fridge for this week's shows and for that we thank you yeah
bwr-u-n beer run if you need more TCG for your earballs check out our bonus show called off the Record it's on
Stitcher premium you can find a link at our website at truecrimegarage.com and that is enough of the bee isn't it all
right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
directly to the killer who may be in this room what will those closest to you think of
when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls only a cow wouldn't do such a thing
give up [Music] we will not stop 24 hours of course since they were reported missing 13 year olds Liberty
German Abigail Williams well I've seen around one o'clock Monday afternoon near the Monon high bridge that abandoned
rail Bridge just outside of Delphi you know news 18's Brad oppenheim joins us now live from Carroll County where that
surge continues at this hour Brad Jeff like you said Liberty German and Abigail Williams were last seen
yesterday afternoon when they were dropped off near that bridge now they had made arrangements to be picked up by
family members later that afternoon but they never showed up now a staging area has been set up at the Delphi fire
department and since I've been here I've seen hundreds of people come in and out
of this staging area we are told that volunteers will be sent out in groups where they will comb the area in efforts
to find these two girls I was able to actually catch up with Abigail Williams mother Anna Williams
and she says she is Amazed by the outpouring of support from the community I also spoke with the Carroll County
Sheriff toe blessingby and he says they are working with officials on getting an
Amber Alert issued just in the last couple hours I've been at the staging area I've seen and spoke from volunteers
that don't even live in Carroll County including one man from West Lafayette who came over and joined the search he
said he has a teenage daughter himself and wanted to do what he could to make sure those girls make it home safe
directly to the Killer who may be in this room only a cow wouldn't do such a thing
what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls
only a cow wouldn't do such a thing don't give up [Music] we will not stop we're here in the garage me in the
colonel talking with skip Jansen about who he believes should be the number one person of interest
skip when did you start your investigation into the Delphi murders that's a good question I've probably
been looking into it for the last year or so I guess I got into it because I thought it was I was intrigued by the
fact that there were audio and video of the Killer and I thought it was even more unique that one of the victims had
was the one who had done the video of him so that's how I kind of got started looking into it and why do you think so
many people on the internet have been fascinated with the Delphi murders another good question I think probably
for those reasons as well as I think the small town aspect plays a part in it and
I think that uh the the fact that you know anytime two children are murdered you know people have a fascination with
that and for people that don't know Delphi has a population of just under 3 000 individuals yeah very very low
populated area and the unusual thing about it is for a town that has less than 3 000 people I've never seen a case
that had this many potential Persons of Interest yeah on the internet there's hundreds of side by sides but law
enforcement has stated over and over in different press conferences that they believe the Killer is local to Delphi
correct yeah I mean I agree with that if that's what you're asking I think the the area that the crime was committed in
is is such a remote area that the odds of this being someone who was from out of town or a random type
murderer I think the odds are probably a little too long for that yeah I want to
Echo that but I do want to point out that they have what what their exact words are is that we believe that you
the person is local someone either from Delphi living in Delphi or someone that works
there so not necessarily doesn't have to be an actual member of the Delphi proper
population according to those words and statements that have been released by law enforcement but I do agree 100 with
you Skip and Captain given the nature of the crime scene and the Monon high bridge in the trail
system there there are people that live in Delphi and live in Carroll County that I've spoken
to or heard in interviews state that they didn't even know those Trails existed or the bridge existed so for
some random person to just find that and use that as a it the killer used this as a hunting ground
whether he intended to kill someone there or not he was hunting for prey for a victim or victims that day at that
location and given what I've seen and reviewed as far as maps go I would like to go there and walk the uh terrain
myself but given the remoteness of that area and the lay of the land somebody had to have familiarity with that
location I agree with that I think people get misled a little bit sometimes they say you go look at Google Maps and
and see that one of the roads that the bridge is off of Highway 300 which is it's just a little small you know
country two-lane road I think people think that that's maybe a larger more traveled area and it's just not so we
have discussed many possible people of interest on the show and with arrests like Chadwell
and so many other arrests throughout the country and people having side by sides
one thing that's tough with all those individuals are they capable of committing the crimes yes but can you
put them in Delphi the day of the murders but with your Person of Interest you can actually put them at the park
the day of the murders yeah that's right he was there he admitted he was there he
was theirs he said he was with a female he actually was was the uh one of the witnesses for the original sketch that
was released some people referred to as Old Bridge guy uh to answer that question yes he's he's the first one
that I know of it that was admittedly there so your Person of Interest admits that he was there and also admits that
he has talked to law enforcement and he came forward and he is the reason for the first sketch that has been released
do you know if your Person of Interest was a part of any of the searches that day I don't I don't know that he was
part of uh any search I just know that he was there around the time of the murders and he was in pretty close
proximity to uh to the area that uh where the girls were found so the girls went missing on February 13th but their
bodies weren't found until February 14th yeah that's correct around noon on the 14th so just to add a little Clarity
here uh in regards to the time frame that we're talking about we're talking about February 13
2017. now Libby and Abby were dropped off approximately 145 in the afternoon this is according to Kelsey who dropped
them off at the trailhead and the Snapchat picture of Abby was posted at 207 p.m on that day
and it's believed based off of the evidence that we have that being the still picture which comes from the video
which was then released at a later date the still picture of bridge guy yeah correct it it due to the positioning of
the sun uh what we can see in that video we can tell that the abduction took place between 2 20 p.m and 2 40 p.m that
afternoon so relatively quickly things are moving very fast the girls are dropped off in less than an hour later
they are abducted um less than a half an hour later that picture is posted on Snapchat of Abby
it's kind of mind-boggling how we have this perpetrator lurking waiting in the shadows if you will
looking for potential prey and it just so happens to line up with about the time that they're dropped off and from
my understanding Skip and you can correct me if I'm I'm wrong that it's approximately about a half mile from the
trailhead to the bridge itself which two girls taking their time maybe they went
a roundabout way there's two different options to get you to that monan high bridge
that time lines up all those times really line up with about how long it would take someone on foot to get to
that bridge and when you say that this guy your guy has admittedly his own words put him Place him at the crime
scene at about the same time that the abduction and murders took place and I do want to be clear there even though
they're murdered at that location and left there they were abducted I mean they were they were moved and corralled
and directed by the killer where to go foreign because we have audio evidence of that correct and we don't know for
exactly what reasons but you're saying this guy has placed himself there during this time frame and the other thing
that's key to hone in on at this point too when we're discussing times on that day is according to law enforcement
they believe whatever took place because again they're not telling us exactly what happened whatever took place
was done and over with probably relatively quickly but at least by 5 PM that day yeah correct because
that's what that's the time frame that they say that uh the car was at the CPS building at the 2019 press conference
they LED that off with that that they were looking for the driver which I thought was
interesting of the vehicle that was parked there from 12 to 5. I thought it was unusual they asked for the drive
about the drivers things like maybe they know about what the who the vehicle is and that's something that that we can
get into a little bit but let me say a couple of things that I think are important one thing one thing I've
learned is that law enforcement in a perpetrator have a 180 degree opposite agendas and I'm not talking about just
the simple fact that Law Enforcement wants to catch this guy and this guy that you know the perpetrator doesn't
want to be caught how that relates to this case is and it goes back to what you were talking about about the time is
Law Enforcement wants to place somebody there between under that bridge near that crime scene between about 2 30 and
3 30 that afternoon okay the perpetrator wants to be anywhere else but under that bridge between 2 30 and 3
30. okay and that's something I think that that the listeners should keep in mind as we as we go along here because
there's been a ton of misinformation deflections false information put out as we as again as we talk about that you'll
see some of that maybe people changing their time frames of when they were there who they were with where they
parked and things like that well it's hard to know because we're not from that area we don't know how populous this
park is it's a day where there's no school how many people do you think are at the park
during the time of the murders it's hard to say I I I've identified maybe six or seven I know there's been I
know there's been people who've said uh they were up to 50 people I don't buy that at all I think there were just a
few I've identified six or seven so people put the time frame of the murders in between 2 30 and let's say 3 30 but
we know that because the girls weren't responding and somebody was trying to pick them up and this uh
miscommunication was would have started about three o'clock yeah I think I think
Libby's dad Derek had arrived and started walking the trails around three o'clock just after and that was that was
about the time they they started realizing you know something was wrong Derek called Libby's phone at 3 11 that
afternoon and this is as he was getting close he's driving in a vehicle to go pick up the girls there was no set time
when they were dropped off what time they would be picked up it was a roundabout time right and the the
statement was or always has been that Derek would call Libby when he got close so they could meet him at the trailhead
and we know that that call took place at 3 11. he's unable to get a hold of her she doesn't answer the phone he then
arrives shortly after that 311 phone call and starts to walk the trails looking for the girls I think the one of
the important things is is is that where he parked is an area called the mirrors
lot which is the same place that the girls were dropped off it's just a small area private area but the locals knew it
as a place to they had easy access to the trails there's the trailhead like you said is right there so it's just a
short walk to the bridge and it's called the mirrors lot because the mirrors Family Farm is right it's right across
the street yeah exactly they may have owned portions of that additional land at one once right in this area area that
you can just get a few cars in at one time three or four five maybe Max so it's just a small area but the locals
knew about it one of the importance of this being a small location and like you said it could only fit maybe five cars
is that your Person of Interest claims that around three o'clock his car would have been parked in that lot that's what
Tammy said he arrived yeah and he said he started walking slowly down the trail with a female but we haven't had any
other eyewitness come forward and say that they saw your Person of Interest walking with this female
we have anybody come forward and say that they saw them that's correct well yeah that's correct not anybody that we
uh that has said anything publicly I do believe that that he was seen later on but but no nobody has publicly said they
saw him nobody's corroborated that and what's also odd about this one claim that your Person of Interest made is the
time frame he would have run into possibly Derek or possibly flannel shirt guy at the trailhead around this time period
yeah he like I said when Derek got there he started on walking on the on the trails he ran into an older man older
gentleman who's referred to as flannel shirt guy and ask him if if he had seen the girl
two girls and he said no but there's a couple arguing under the bridge so Derek took the other path I guess
assuming that that was not who he was looking for so so maybe the girls were on the other path one thing I've always
wondered about here skip is there's actually two Bridges right there's one that goes over the Indiana Hoosier
Highway what's that the freedom Bridge Freedom Bridge yes part of me wonders when he gets told by FSG flannel short
flannel shirt guy can do you have his name in front of you I think he's been identified I think we can just say his
name yeah his last name is McCain and McCain he was in charge of the uh the trail system there correct so he's
involved with the parks and rec or something of that nature but so he speaks with McCain and McCain says I I
saw a couple arguing under the bridge I think well I think you actually said I heard a couple okay under the bridge and
I'm with you it could mean one of two things either he goes okay well that's not the people I'm looking for so I'll
go this opposite way maybe he just assumed the freedom Bridge rather than the moaning High Bridge it's possible that
McCain was coming from that from that direction so I think the assumption is that he would had just been at the BR at
the Monon High Bridge like I said you know he he asked you know about two young girls you know somebody describing
a couple they heard would not be the same description so so he he you know he said he said no he hasn't seen them so
it it you know that part of it I think is fairly simple well in this case there's so much information and I think
there's some misinformation that's being put out by certain people and when you hear about this eyewitness uh McCain
that talked with Derek at the trailhead and he says that I heard a arguing couple roughly around 2
50 to 3 o'clock to me one of the things that people are missing is that would be
roughly at the time that Abby and Libby are making contact with Bridge guy and we don't have the full audio tape so we
don't know and we don't know if those audio tapes have the evidence on there was there an argument was there did one
of the girls start arguing with Bridge guy and if that is true then around three o'clock McCain did not hear a
arguing couple he heard Bridge Guy arguing with Abby and Libby yeah I think I think that's likely I think yeah one
of the biggest questions that people have had in this case is you know why didn't anybody hear anything you know
why didn't the girl scream why did anybody hear anything well maybe they did you know maybe McCain uh heard
something and and but but nobody's put that together like you just said so so your Person of Interest we know that he
was there he claims he was eyewitness he claims he's the reason for the first sketch that was released he also claims
that he enters the same parking lot that Derek parked in roughly about three o'clock but then other times he has told
sources and talked on the internet about being a part of the arguing couple which would put him at the crime scene
at three o'clock correct he also didn't come forward to law enforcement saying that he saw anybody like I mentioned he
was a witness to one of the witnesses to the first sketch until well after the uh
video had been put out at least a week I think that kind of asked the question why if you saw somebody he says he saw
somebody dressed like BG was with a scarf over his face if he saw if he saw somebody like that why didn't you come
you know and you know two little girls were murdered that day why didn't you come forward immediately you know and
and he later recanted that uh statement yeah I have a couple problems with this person of interest one you're at the
park roughly around the time that this family is looking for two missing girls there's no witness that says he stayed
to help so what kind of person are you what kind of canoe are you I think our listeners know what I'm getting at but
on top of that yours there's this you're claiming that the day these girls were murdered and you would have known
that the next day that you were at the park the same day these girls were murdered and you saw a suspicious person
you're not coming forward to law enforcement for seven eight days well he originally said he was with his
girlfriend okay he later changed that to a girl that and he never mentioned her name just uh told uh Apparently one of
the uh stories that was at Earth was he was part of a cheating couple so that was the reason for maybe uh
why it was so ambiguous about who you know who he was with was because he was saying he you know he was trying to keep
it on the download that he was with another girl well and that's really interesting because this person of
interest he's coming forward and saying look I'm the I'm the eyewitness I saw Bridge guy I am the reason for the first
sketch that is released we now know that law enforcement is saying hey don't that's that's sketch is
secondary essentially saying well we don't buy this eyewitness's account at one point saying well I was at the
parking lot roughly the same time Derek was there ah but he didn't see me and at some point I was yeah I was with
there with my girlfriend uh now we know that's not to be true so then he has to then go on and then
tell people okay look I wasn't there with my girlfriend I was cheating on my girlfriend and so therefore you know but
I I was covering for that which a lot of times eyewitnesses come forward and they
lie to law enforcement and lie to the public because they were doing something bad that necessarily doesn't make him a
murderer but my issue is we don't know who he claims he was with under that bridge
key phrase there under the bridge which by definition guys down the hill under the bridge anything under the
bridge becomes a part of the crime scene they found articles of clothing around that area under the bridge in the
water so we have this individual lying and constantly changing the story but what
does he do he puts himself at that crime scene and I don't believe anybody saw arguing
couple they just heard arguing couple arguing couple then equals Bridge Guy arguing with Abby and Libby equals
that's the murderer and he is putting himself in that position that location arguing with somebody which we believe
would be Abby and Libby and that puts him at the crime scene that makes him bridge gun
[Music] foreign [Music] [Music] so we're back talking with skip Janice about his Person of Interest
and how this person of interest has acclaimed he was eyewitness he saw BG he's the reason for the first sketch
that was released and that he was there with his girlfriend that changed his story to
that he was there with somebody he was cheating on his girlfriend with shows you the type of character this
individual is and on top of that he just constantly keeps changing his story he said he saw
a bridge guy leaving going toward Freedom Bridge around the same time that flannel shirt guy and Derek would have
been uh talking so they would have had they hadn't been close to each other in proximity to each other at the time he
said he saw him believing there he described him as like I said with the the clothes that BG was wearing seen in
the video and also with a scarf over his face again I can't get over the fact that if you're just a normal guy and
maybe you don't want to come forward right away because you're going to be caught cheating
but you can tell law enforcement that and they don't have to release that information to the public but you can
tell your friends family and girlfriend hey by the way I was there that day well
why were you there oh I was taking a lunch break or whatever reason you have to come up with to tell your friends and
family but you believe that you saw this individual and you're waiting seven days to come
and talk to law enforcement it just seems very suspicious it seems very shady it doesn't
you know pass the sniff test if you will well he said he's he came forward after
the video had been released and said that's the guy I saw that day yeah so when exactly is this photo or video
released after the crime they released the video I think two or three days after the murders
or the photo of the photo taken from the video yeah yeah the still photo was released a few days afterwards it wasn't
until that 2019 press conference that we get the video right and let's be clear about one thing the
younger sketch the second sketch that was released in 2019 was actually created three or four days after the
murders that was actually the first the the others the the old uh Bridge guy sketch was done was not released until
July of 2017 so it was five months before the first sketch was released yet they had the sketch of the younger guy
three or four days after the murders so the second sketch that was released they
had pretty quickly but for some reason this eyewitness comes forward seven or eight days after the murders
gives his account and they go with his sketch at least yeah a week later saying that that was the
guy he came after the uh uh picture was or the photo was was shown on television
he said that's the guy I saw again I'm just curious why you wouldn't come if you saw a suspicious guy there close to
where two girls were killed why you wouldn't come forward immediately Let's Pretend the DP is Bridge guy for a
minute okay he's coming forward now because he has an out that that sketch is his out right he doesn't want to come
forward before like you were getting to that oh I don't want to come forward because
they can identify me if I was there right and so he he sees the sketch it's not doesn't appear to be him to him
so DP comes forward and says yep I I would like to second that I saw that person I was there that day
and saw that person there as well I yeah he actually he saw the video he saw the
video or the pic the photo not the sketch I think he became aware of the sketch I've spoken with person friend of
mine locally whose family as a brother who's in law enforcement that I think is a is an incredible
source and he told me that a lot of local people knew about this there was a second sketch I didn't know what it
looked like obviously earlier but they knew very early on that there was a second sketch I think I think the time
how the timing works is he came after the second sketch had been created uh hadn't been released yet but the second
sketch had been created and that's when he came forward the second sketch that was actually released is actually the
first sketch that they created correct but how is law enforcement getting that information for the second sketch that
was released from a witness a witness that uh saw something it needed to be reported that
day and Skip correct me if I'm wrong it's been my understanding that the second sketch released is based off of
eyewitness statements description right and the first sketch that was released was based off of the
still photo then later video evidence uh and it was all well a lot of people believe that the law enforcements uh
take on it is that it was it was created by multiple Witnesses okay so both of the sketches or law enforcement says
both of the sketches were were created based on uh witness testimony I agree with you though I think that the first
sketch was had the the photo and video had some influence on it and your Person of Interest which we are calling DP I
don't know if you guys picked up on the fact that Nick Cod the person of interest DP we're calling him DP for
legal reasons obviously and for safety reasons for himself but he came forward and was telling people online he was
responsible for the first sketch that was released that's correct yeah again I think that's a little bit unusual that
you know law enforcement usually insists that uh the witnesses don't say anything
in cases like this he's certainly injected himself into the case by speaking on social media kind of getting
a story out there but both of his stories put him with another person at the trails that day right so where's
this other person right I mean if I'm law enforcement that's my first thing I'm going okay DP was there and in story
a he's with so and so and in story B he's with someone else who are these people and do they exist well again I
think I think the reason for the change of the story was that he was with another girl and didn't want that
information getting out I think that was the excuse to get to the Second Story which was the the cheating girl yeah I
think that that probably raised the red flag of some some sorts you know but he was he was considered a witness they
thought that um you know law enforcement seeks Witnesses they know they need Witnesses and this guy came forward
voluntarily so they assumed he was uh said he and described something that looked like what they were seeing on
video so they had no reason not to believe him okay so this DP guy's there he and he's with this girl that he's
cheating on his girl girlfriend with I mean that's pretty scumbag anyways but we don't have
this other girl that he was cheating on his girlfriend with coming forward and saying hey I was there with DP and the
other thing about it too is he's saying he was arguing with this girl that he was with under the bridge again putting
himself and putting whoever this girl he was with if there was even a girl there
with him under the bridge again under the bridge you have to understand that under the
bridge or on the other side of the bridge is all a part of the crime scene so he would be saying Not only was I
cheating with this girl but she was over at the crime scene with me about the same time that the killer would have
been making contact with Abby and Libby but yet yet they didn't see anything again he wasn't seen by anybody except
one person a girl named Cheyenne Ingles and she's the only one there that has corroborated seeing him do we know where
Cheyenne says she saw she never said what exactly where she saw him she said that she her story and
I'll be kind of Frank here I don't I haven't found anything that she said to be truthful she originally said she got
there at 3 50. changed her stories to she got there at 2 50. she showed a picture of uh from the day says that she
said she went there to take pictures she has a picture and it's taken around three o'clock of the bridge she never
said you know she saw what time she saw him just that she saw a heterosexual couple
and also ran into a friend of hers who she said she didn't know was going to be there well the biggest point about DP
being a person of interest is he was at the park that day claims to be in the vicinity of the bridge has changed his
story multiple times now you have Cheyenne that is eyewitness to DP being there but she's constantly changing her
story as well it's very very suspicious I think I think there are four I think there are four people involved in
involved in that equation I think DP Cheyenne Cheryl and a girl named Shelby and I think they that one of them has
has something to do with a car that was parked at the CPS building that law enforcement inquired about so who is
this Shelby she's a friend of uh all they're all friends um she was I know she went to law
enforcement to talk to tell them kind of straighten out the vehicle situation I think there was a lot of confusion about
out where everybody parked what town everybody got there whose cars were there I think she went and told them
that you know her yes her car was there uh and here's how it got there I don't think no I think again nobody saw her
nobody saw DP I don't have any reason to believe she was there because you know there's no there's nobody corroborating
the story that she was there I'm not sure she she ever said she was there yeah she had she and Cheyenne are
friends because they were married to well one was married to uh two brothers one was married and one was uh had a
child with the other brother so they they were friends that way but does Cheyenne ever say when she saw
Cheryl she says she says that Cheryl got there she shine says she got there about
250. she said that Cheryl got there about 2 30. uh she didn't say exactly what point she ran into him
or ran into her I'm sorry so other than so we're going to exclude Shelby because we don't believe that she
was there but other than Cheyenne and Cheryl do we have anybody we don't know who Cheryl was there
either right but do we have anybody at the park seeing DP that day no nobody saw DP except
Cheyenne okay but nobody saw Cheyenne nobody saw Cheryl nobody saw Shelby they all they
all were there at the park in the in the same uh time frame that that several other people were there including FSG
but nobody saw any of them I think again I think the time that the timeline and the vehicles are the critical part of
the case I think it's likely law enforcement knows or has a particular POI Person of
Interest and I think that that was probably gathered from those two things the timelines never made sense amongst
any of the witnesses or any of the people that were there and neither has the vehicle situation so you're telling
me that Cheyenne says I saw DP at the park but we don't know what time claiming she saw him is she saying that
he was with somebody or alone she was saying he was with somebody that was part of the they were part of the
heterosexual couple as how she described it but the person that she's saying he was with is this person acts yes that's
what makes this person so interesting to me is because none of the stories line up none the stories make any sense so if
you're having a hard time following the story well don't blame you because their
stories just don't line up but Cheyenne also said that she saw dp's car in which
parking lot uh it was parked I believe at the mirrors lot but there's an another eyewitness that disputes this
claim yeah there was an eyewitness that drove by around three o'clock and said that
she only saw two cars with all the people who were there say they were there all the people that say they were
there actually were there then there would be a lot more than two cars because we know FSG was there and
possibly parked there um we know Derek was parked there yeah and Derek got there and parked there
around just after three o'clock so it's not clear even where Cheyenne parked right yeah it's in uh
because there's there's reason to question that if she was even there that day absolutely there's she as a matter of
fact she says she leaves at four o'clock and if she's leaving she notices a man who she later finds or realizes is Derek
uh sitting in the parking lot with another person in the in the car doing what looks like a drug deal well
Derek wasn't with anybody that day okay Tara later came and it came but she didn't arrive till 4 10. so how did how
did Cheyenne see see anybody in the car as a matter of fact when when Tara got there she says that Derek jumped in the
car with her so how did Cheyenne see Derek doing what looked like a drug deal at four o'clock it's possible that her
time frame is just off right but they did she got she got in he got in the other car she identified Derek as being
Derek or just some guy she said originally she changed it later on to real when she realized it was Derek or
is that the way she put it she changed she said it was Derek I mean come on people how many times are you going to
keep changing your story again again that just goes to part of the the stories and how they've changed I
understand people's recollection but a lot of this seems a lot more than that than just you know
misinterpreting times and things like that she the reason you know she she knew she got there because at 250
because she remembers a robocall she got and she remembers leaving at four o'clock because she didn't have
good enough uh cell service to upload the picture to Snapchat that she took and she did that
about 10 minutes before four so she knew her times were right or at least she said she knew her times were right well
this is a small town and I think some of this information was getting leaked or at least some rumors were happening it
sounds to me like Cheyenne is having one story and then once she finds out well no Derek was in that area at that time
then she comes back and goes oh it just wasn't some man that I saw it was Derek again we have uh eyewitness that is
changing his story that puts himself at the scene of the crime roughly around the time of the murders doesn't come
forward right away knows the girls uh I believe at some point people said he was following one of them
on Facebook possibly could have been following them on Snapchat said that he rode the bus with them that they lived
you know a couple miles away so he knew the victims but again their stories keep
changing and how suspicious is that then Cheyenne says that she sees dp's car at the other parking lot but it
seems like he would have been parked at the CPS building and waiting for the girls I think it's possible yeah can I
think I think if you if you if you go by what law enforcement says that the car parked at the CPS building could have
possibly been there from as early as 12 o'clock I think uh it seems likely I don't think
the 12 I don't think that the 12 to 5 I think that's just giving them some leeway but I think they know that uh he
was probably there longer than than what what he said so DP is changing his story constantly Cheyenne is
changing her story she is the only one that claims to see his car there we have other credible eyewitnesses that don't
see his car so that's very suspicious why would you be driving somebody else's car to the park that day maybe because
you didn't want your car to be seen because maybe you're going to do something bad possibly again that go
that goes back to you know law enforcement saying in the 2019 press conference that they were looking for
the driver of a vehicle that tells that tells me it's likely that it was uh whoever they were whoever
they're trying to find information of was driving a vehicle that wasn't his a borrowed vehicle but we also believed
that there was an eyewitness that would have saw the driver of that vehicle yeah
I think I think that uh yeah that obviously there was there was a witness that saw
there was a witness that saw somebody that that just that ends up being the second sketch
um I think there's a possibility that that's that was the same person who saw the car uh as as BG was exiting the park
now even though sketch one and sketch two their world's apart but there are some similarities but your Person of
Interest DP matches both of these which is very concerning and the second SketchUp
was the release of the younger individual he matches he matches that sketch more than any
other person of interest I've seen match a sketch now hopefully that gets out to
the internet and people can make their own predictions and own assumptions on that well let me ask you this if
like we mentioned earlier that a lot of locals knew that there was a second sketch early on
if you'd killed some two people and you had gotten you had gotten wind that there was another there was a sketch out
there I mean you obviously yeah or no this at this point I'm talking about the sketch being done three or four days
later because he didn't come forward until after that you got to know what I'm saying is if you killed somebody and
you found out law enforcement didn't just have this photo that they released but they also have a sketch yeah exactly
yeah yeah you would think you had been seen right I mean you you know so that's certainly an incentive to come
forward to explain your words explain your whereabouts and why you were there that day you waited a week to come
forward or at least a week why you know why why did you do that first of all and
secondly uh uh is that is that the is that the reason yeah law enforcement has has thought that this person is
following the case and getting information you want to know what we know and so uh I think it's likely that
somebody was sharing information with him or he had access to that and uh and that's why he came forward well and you
also after you're doing a lot of your research and you're looking into DP you notice that a lot of the comments that
the police officers are making or law enforcement is making about their suspect or when they talking to the
killer that it really applies to the research and the misinformation that they got from these eyewitnesses early
on they talked about we believe that we were lied to early on or that we didn't identify find this person correctly
and so to have the confidence that he had to go into law enforcement and say hey look I was there
I was an eyewitness I saw BG and I think the small town of component comes in here because they believed him because
they said well look at him look at his family and look at what they've done in the community this is a kid that we can
trust and I think they bought whatever story he was selling initially [Music] we want to hear from you check out the
blog at True Crime garage.com so much more to get to in the next episode please join us and until
then be good be kind and don't litter [Music] foreign [Music]

Delphi Murders /// Under the Bridge /// Part 1 /// 509

Part 1 of 3 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Delphi, Indiana - February 13, 2017 - Middle school students Liberty German and Abigail Williams went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail and were murdered. This week we continue our coverage of this very high profile case. We are joined in the Garage by Skip Jansen to discuss a new suspect and a theory that is catching fire! Previous Delphi Murders True Crime Garage coverage includes the following… Delphi Murders /// A New Suspect episodes 486 & 487 - Delphi Murders /// 4 Years Later episodes 468 & 469 - Delphi Murders Discussion episode 395 - Delphi Murders /// Off the Record episodes 321 & 322 - Delphi Murders Revisited episodes 320 & 321 - Delphi Murders episodes 110 & 111

Beer of the Week - Back Tuesday Grand Reserve 2020 by The Bruery Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 Bottle Caps

Our show - True Crime Garage “Off the Record” is available only on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode examines the Delphi murders, focusing on a suspicious person of interest and the timeline of events surrounding the case.

Key points

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Hosts Nick and Captain introduce the episode and thank listeners for tuning in.
The Search for Liberty and Abigail. The community rallies to search for two missing girls, Liberty German and Abigail Williams.
The Killer May Be Local. Discussion on the belief that the killer is likely from the Delphi area.
Person of Interest's Alibi. The hosts discuss the alibi of a person of interest in the case.
Timeline of Events. A detailed account of the timeline surrounding the abduction and murder of the girls.
Suspicious Timing of Reports. Eyewitnesses report seeing the person of interest days after the crime, creating doubt.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

We will not stop.

A determined declaration in the face of the investigation.

3:01WatchNov 6, 2022

Tension

70/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.