Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320 | Forensic Files

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our old episodes and stitcher premium for our weekly show called off-the-record and that is enough of the
business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a few beers let's talk some true-crime basically we
have identified the bodies of the two females that were found out yesterday or yes yesterday the bodies are of have
been positive identified as Abigail Jay Williams 13 of the Delphi area and Liberty Rose Lynn German 14 of the
Delphi area the two girls were reported missing on Monday February 13th the bodies were discovered about 12:15 on
the 14th in the woods just east of town here by volunteers that helped in the search of the children after they were
reported missing to the Carroll County Sheriff's Department family has been notified
this is considered a double homicide investigation no further information will be released at this time
we have we have nobody in custody at this time so as far as I'm concerned yes there is somebody out there that did
this for in this crime and we're gonna track them down it is disturbing it is concerning as sheriff in my position and
you know I want to I guess assure the community is trooper Riley indicated we're going into the bottom of this we
feel confident and you know we're gonna we're going to do everything we can within our resources to reach justice in
this situation this is Delphi Indiana and our case starts on the afternoon of February 13 2017 at about 140 in the
afternoon 13-year old Abby Williams and 14 year old Libby German were dropped off by Libby's older sister Kelsey the
drop-off location is at a trailhead on County Road 300 North this is near the scenic moanin High Bridge which is an
abandoned railroad bridge that goes over Deer Creek in Carroll County Indiana okay I'm going to try to get as detailed
on this portion of our timeline as I can so before the girls left to go to the bridge and the trails Libby asked her
older sister Kelsey several times if she could drive them out there to which Kelsey said no several times before
basically giving in and saying yes now Liberty had already secured permission from her grandmother Becky to go to the
bridge the idea was Becky said yes you and Abby can go to the bridge if you can get a
ride there and if you can get a ride back so the plan was for Kelsey to drop the two girls off and then around 3:30
p.m. Libby's father Derek would pick both of them up this three thirty marker is just a general
time as Derek said he would call Libby when he was close to the pickup location so Kelsey drops off the girls and then
calls her boyfriend to tell him that she is in route to go hang out with him Kelsey was going to go hang out with him
and then go off to work while walking on the trail Libby posts a photo to snapchat this is the now-famous 207 p.m.
snapchat photo showing a be crossing the moanin High Bridge at 3:11 p.m. Derek calls Libby's phone Libby does not
answer at 3:13 Derek makes another call Derek says both of these calls go to voicemail but after ringing so Libby's
phone rings and then the calls go to voicemail eventually and I've seen it reported
this might have been as early as 3:30 p.m. calls to Libby's phone start going directly to voicemail when the second
call goes to voicemail Derek parks the car so now he is parked in a location where he can pick up the
girls this is the same general location where the two girls were originally dropped off Derek claims that once he
parts the car he gets out of his car immediately yeah he parked at the trailhead and he walks the trail within
minutes of parking the vehicle and starting off on the trail on foot he comes to an intersecting path
he says it's here where he sees as he has described an older man with a plaid or flannel shirt on he asked this man if
he has seen two girls to which the man responds no but I saw a couple on the bridge these trails out there are
numbered the intersecting trails are the 501 trail in the 505 trail yeah Derek is
going to walk down the 505 trail to look for the girls now forgive me everyone as
I've only seen this on maps but it appears to me that the 501 trail is the more heavily traveled
trail it appears to be like the main trail there Derek takes the other trail the 505 which dead ends at Deer Creek he
does not find the girls and he does not see anyone else so he turns around and he heads back the way he came walking
all the way back to his vehicle once he is near his vehicle he calls Becky patty
Becky is Libby's grandmother derek is telling her hey I'm here Libby is not picking up the phone the girls are not
here this this phone call takes place at 3:30 p.m. after the call Derek is going
to walk the 501 pass so he gets there he's calling nobody's answering he walks down a path the less Lessard traveled
path gets back to the car still nothing now he's gonna go walk the main path but
at this point there has to be some level of concern oh yeah yeah so much so that
he's already called Becky the grandmother right so let's give a general description of this path which i
think is very important for those that have not seen this on a map all right from where he is parked the general
description is this starting from where he parked he walks a short distance on a
short trail once there he is standing at the 501 Trail which is a long trail it's
the more traveled trail it's also called the moanin high bridge trail because if
you are standing right there at the intersecting trails trail 501 or the moanin high bridge trail to the
northwest goes all the way to the freedom bridge which is a beautiful pedestrian bridge that extends over
highway 25 better known as the Hoosier Heartland highway or Triple H for a wrestling fans to the northwest is this
beautiful freedom bridge right to the southeast is the moanin high bridge so Derrick goes up to the freedom bridge to
see if the girls are up there he does not see them then again he turns around by the time he gets back to the
intersecting trails this is when members of Libby's family start to arrive to help in the search
remember we said Kelsey was going to work well she got a call from Becky the grandmother who is alerting the family
that Libby is missing so instead of going to work Kelsey returns to help as well just real quick just to recap
because a lot of things are happening here the girls were dropped off at approximately 1:40 p.m. I've seen this
time as early as 1:35 p.m. and as late as 1:45 p.m. yeah the snapchat photo is at 207 p.m. so we know they are alive
and well at 207 then not even an hour and a half later less than 90 minutes later Derek is there at 3:15 looking for
them at 3:30 Becky is notified and by 4:00 p.m. less than two hours after the snapchat photo multiple members of
Libby's family are there at the trails and looking for the girls between 3:30 and 4:00 p.m.
her family continues to try to call her some leaving voicemails and some texting
as well at about 4:20 p.m. Kelsey along with Cody Cody is Libby's uncle Kelsey and Cody set out down the trail and they
go in the direction of the moanin High Bridge and they actually crossed the bridge when they get to the other side
of the bridge they went to a couple of the homes in the area knocking on doors to inquire about Libby and ABI
according to Kelsey and Cody they only speak to one person and of course that person had not seen the girls Mike patty
is Libby's grandfather just a quick background for those who are less familiar with the case Libby and her
older sister Kelsey were raised by their grandparents Mike and Becky Derrick is their father both their father and
mother are involved in their lives but the mother lives all the way or lived at the time about four hours away in
Kentucky Mike Patti Libby's grandfather arrives on the scene this is right around five
p.m. now there's a residence very near the trailhead parking area Mike goes to this home he knows these people there at
the home while there he calls a friend of his who is a police officer then Mike goes back to the trails this is around
5:20 p.m. at 5:30 p.m. Libby's family calls and notifies the police a huge search gets underway but
is called off once it gets too dark in a news release Carroll County Sheriff Toby
Lazenby says there's no reason to suspect foul play or believe the girls are in immediate
danger Vaughn based off of video footage and photos that I've seen of this area this
would be difficult I think to search at night actually I'd actually think parts of it would actually be dangerous to
search at night there's steep hills there and there's also I mean that bridge that moanin high bridge is
dangerous in itself right it's an abandoned railroad bridge anybody that walks across it and many people have it
was a popular place to go before this incident but even after people have filmed themselves or taking pictures of
themselves on this bridge and you see everybody looking down as they walk it it's a 70 foot drop 70 or 75 foot drop
if you fall off that bridge and anybody that's ever walked on an abandoned railroad bridge knows that that
sometimes they're missing steps and even all the steps that are there there's a distance between them where you could
you could twist an ankle you could easily lose your footing right and on top of that too I've seen
pictures of this area both in the summer fall winter and even in the month of February even with all the leaves off of
the trees this is an area that's heavily wooded in in a lot of parts and tough to
see things at any distance at all even when the the leaves are off of the trees right so they call off the search there
they're trying to be hopeful but I'd be a little concerned that if they're out there somewhere in the park
that this is not the best area for them to be in especially after dark right and
you have the highway that's right by there the the Indiana Highway number 25 which we've discussed that on other
cases too you don't want to disappear go missing right around a highway but that
also probably leads to some kind of discussion on several levels these are young teenage girls it's it's they've
only been missing for a few hours probably let's say five six hours by the time they call off the search right
you're probably having the discussion with her caretakers with with the parents and caretakers of these two
young girls that they might have they might be off partying with somebody or they might be out you know doing
something right they could have been drop us off at the park we're gonna meet up with somebody that they just didn't
tell their Guardians about so they're not gonna start searching until the next morning which would be February 14th
2017 yeah the search continues for the girls and there are several of these teams of searchers out there they you
can find on YouTube and any of the people that were local remember that they were calling that morning they were
out on TV broadcasting and saying anybody that is available today please come out and help us search this area
for these two girls but unfortunately just after around 12 o'clock noon one of the teams finds two bodies and this is
about a half a mile away from the bridge from the moanin High Bridge so if you're
looking at a map of the area and based off of later evidence the girls were abducted after 207 p.m. we know that
from the the snapchat photo and they would have been abducted after 207 p.m. at the south east side of the bridge
this is where they were likely ordered by the abductor to go down the hill they would have went down the hill and then
across a long private driveway now this is not keep in mind this is not the suburbs so when we say driveway it's not
what anybody's picturing this driveway looks like a long gravel and dirt road and at this approximate location you
can't really see any houses there's not houses or like other roads visible at this location so as soon as they they go
across this dirt road gravel road private driveway whatever you want to call it they would have then went down
yet another hill and this one is steeper than the last this would put them right
at the edge of Deer Creek the bodies were found on the opposite side of this Creek about 50 feet from the north bank
of Deer Creek police have not publicly stated how the girls were murdered and law enforcement secured a large area of
this north bank of the creek with crime scene tape as well as some of the areas from that southeast side of the bridge
working your way down to the creek side we do not know if the girls were ordered
to cross the creek at the shallow point there or if they try to make a run for it or if in fact they may have been
killed and then carried across the creek to try to conceal the bodies further we
don't know that but we know that they were found across the creek is there any way to get across the creek some other
way like by driving down a path or I say that they crossed at this shallow point
because that would be what would make the most sense be from from where they were found
right if you were to cross the creek there's there's that one shallow point right there and it's near that north
bank area where they were were found and I don't believe that police have actually disclosed whether or not their
clothing was wet with the creek water well that's that's the difficult thing here in this case and that's why we're
going to go through in this manner because when we originally covered it was very early in the case and there was
little to known facts about the case there was a lot of speculation there was even speculation at that time that they
were found in the creek and we can piece together words of law enforcement and detectives since then to know that
that's not true they were found on dry ground about 50 feet from the creek side regarding the wet clothing we don't know
if their clothing was found at all right for starters and factoring in the the distance of time the time that has
elapsed from when it's believed that they were abducted and likely killed to when they were found I can't say I can't
say if their clothes would have been still wet at that time what I can say what you're saying just so we're clear
you're not saying that they were found nude I don't know we don't I don't know but that's why I'm saying is the way you
made it sound was like we don't know if their clothes were even found right best
about wet clothes and I'm saying we just don't know because we don't we don't even have anybody to tell us if the
clothes clothing was on them was found was was never there whatever but what I'm going to guess here and say is that
and I'm basing this simply off of just what the police did in fact rope off with with the large area on that north
bank creek side with crime scene tape I'm completely guessing here captain but it
would seem more likely to me that they were they were probably killed on the side of the creek in which they were
found again I don't know if that means that they were ordered to cross the creek or if they tried to make a run for
it now on the 15th on February 15th autopsies were conducted on the bodies that afternoon Indiana State Police in
the Carroll County Sheriff's Department held a press conference and they did confirm that they found
Liberty and Abigail Libby and Abbie the girls were murdered and again they did not state how they were killed Indiana
State Police also released a photo of a man reportedly seen on the trail around the time the girls disappeared the image
shows a white male with his hands in his pockets while walking on the bridge he's
wearing jeans and a navy blue jacket and a hat well the the Hat is still an argument but a lot of the news pressors
that came out around this time described him as wearing a hat that's very pixelated police this is the other
tricky thing here right from the get-go so police do not call the man a suspect but say that they would like to talk
with him we've seen this tactic in other cases sometimes that person is actually
considered a suspect by law enforcement but by releasing it in this manner right not calling him a suspect and just
saying we would like to talk with him there have been cases where that individual has come forward to try to
explain away why they are in the area at that time yes hi you looking for me yeah
now also law enforcement does not say where the photo came from or how they obtained the photo now I remember
thinking and and I don't think this was stated anywhere by and I know it wasn't stated by law enforcement but I'm sure
others may have been thinking the same thing that I thought maybe this photo this it was a still image may have just
been captured from some type of trail camera right but we're gonna soon learn that this actually was taken by Libby on
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cheers to you captain on February 22nd 2017 there is another news conference this is the now-famous news conference
where police reveal that one of the victims Libby recorded video and audio of the suspect
on her cell phone the audio recording is released to the public it's a man's voice saying down the hill
this audio triggered more than a thousand tips we captain you and I like so many others offered our speculation
on not only the photo but the audio when we first covered this case back in May of 2017 in episodes 110 and 111 yeah
those are free to listen to on the stitcher app and a lot of the speculation that was involved between
you and I and like I said others on their TV shows their podcast in newspaper articles everywhere was how
much more does police have what more was recovered from Libby's phone and we also
questioned things like you know the voice sounds muffled is that because the the phone was concealed in her pocket
and how did they obtain this information that was on her phone was her phone in fact found I believe now I you know at
the time I thought maybe they pulled this stuff from the the cloud possibly I've changed my opinion on that I'm
starting to think that they probably found her phone and it was just a I think the killer was in a rush to get
out of there and may have not known that his image and his voice was captured on
her phone yeah or was unaware that she had a phone I mean there's any any number of reasons
out there but again I'm just simply guessing on that but I wanted to mention that I've changed my thoughts and
feelings on that I think pop very likely that they found her phone now by March first
the reward money for information in the case grew to $200,000 eight days later Mike Patti
Libby's grandfather who some on the internet were saying looked like the suspect or the bridge guy speaks out
publicly for the first time at the Carroll County Courthouse personally I don't think Mike looks anything like
what I think I'm seeing in the photo of the bridge guy and I say what I think that I'm seeing because as you pointed
out it's a picture pixelated grainy photo right it's taken some distance away the man on the bridge the bridge
guy is some distance away from Libby when she took this video footage and what's released to the public
there's hot debate and has been for almost two year well for over two years about what we are seeing and what this
individual looks like but again personally I don't think nor have I ever thought that that Mike patty looks
anything like what we are seeing in that photo and then later the video footage right but you have two children dead we
have no evidence of the grandfather being there around 2 o'clock let's say and you would think that with this
information he might not have known let's just say hypothetically it was him he wouldn't have known that he was
having his picture taken by her you would think that somebody in the family would come forward and say that looks
like him yeah and there's nobody coming forward and doing that and and I think they probably agree with me that it
doesn't that they don't think it looks like him one I don't think it looks like him body type I don't think it looks
like his face I don't think it looks like his his facial features his hair his nothing like there's there's none of
it that other than it being a white guy right I don't see any other any other possible connection plus we know that
Mike patty has an alibi for that time period he he very likely when you really tear through
this timeline and some of the phone calls that were going on right I find it very likely that Mike Patti would have
been unaware that the girls were even there until they were until people were worried right until they said hey
they're missing him and I think that's what's so difficult in this case is it seems like there's a lot of grabbing at
straws I mean the first thing that I'd want to know investigating this case is one we don't know if this bridge guy is
connected or not we're not law enforcement so we don't know the extent of information than that phone captured
do we have minutes of audio footage do we have minutes of video footage we don't know we're not law enforcement and
might but my first thing when looking at this case is who was supposed to drop her off where were they at what's their
alibi after that then it becomes who was supposed to pick them up where's his location based off maybe
cellphone pings you know does the does the father get there earlier than he says he did you know where where was he
at what's his alibi what would his motive be this is where I would start but you see quickly in this case people
jumping to that looks like the grandpa and and having really no evidence to connect them connect that at all well
and that's what this case will has been and will continue to be and this is not a standalone incident we've seen this in
other cases where they release a composite sketch drawing of the person last seen with somebody or a potential
suspect right and you get a flood of people calling in and the tip is not a great tip it's just a tip of I know
somebody that looks like that or I was driving on the on the this such-and-such road on Main Street and I passed a car
and the guy in the car looked exactly like that dude like that picture like that drawing but what we will learn is
that we will eventually learn just to clear anything up here that the the image captured on Libby's
phone it is it is announced later that that is the killer of the two girls so that is the person that we are looking
for the debate is what are we seeing what does he actually look like because it's a grainy again it's a grainy
picture and he he's walking with his face down and he's not walking with his face down to try to conceal himself from
her her camera phone I don't think he even knew that he was being videotaped he's looking down because he's making
sure that he doesn't lose his footing on that bridge mine Falls 70 feet just like
everybody else if this guy felt that he needed to conceal his face from from these two girls he would have put on a
mask or he would have put something on he would have done that in a different manner other than just simply looking
down as he's walking toward them and I want to go ahead and throw this out there too you can tell that he's
hurriedly he's in a hurry walking towards them so even more important that he's paying attention to the placement
of his feet as he makes his way across the bridge what we're going to see here though this whole thing that I'm
pointing out here with Mike paddy but the grandfather he's making this this very personalized statement this very
heartfelt statement at the County Courthouse but I'm pointing this out because on the
internet people are saying that he looked like the suspect or some people thought he looked like the suspect this
is really just the start of the online suspects that we will see in this case and it quickly continued because on
March 17th the Indiana State Police the FBI and Carroll County sheriff's deputies serve a search warrant this is
at the home of Ron Logan Ron Logan owns the 30 acre property where Abby and Libby were found yeah the popular TV
show Inside Edition speaks this man in his interview he says he was buying tropical fish at the time of the
murders Ron Logan is later arrested and sentenced to two years for operating a vehicle this is after he was illegally
operating a vehicle this is after being a habitual traffic offender he is accused of driving to the county dump on
the same day that the girls vanished to be 100% clear he has not been charged in
regards to the murders although he certainly been same kind of scenario a lot of people saw his interview and went
that looks like the guy right and it's his property so and there's some debate on how cooperative he has been with
police right I've seen people that have said Ron has been gone out of his way to
do everything he can to make sure that they know what he was up to that he was not involved and then I've heard other
other arguments that have said just the complete counter of that then he has not
been very forthcoming yeah and a lot of people actually speculate that here's this lesser charge that we can charge
him with and therefore maybe he would then say something because I remember at the time once they arrested him it's
like okay well here's this guy that claims he was somewhere where he wasn't you know then they you know why is he at
the dump the day that these these girls are found yeah none of this is sounding good this is it yeah that doesn't sound
good what what is he disposing of because yes you've you find these bodies but again we don't know if they were
clothed they're not clothed and then on top of that what did he use for these murders and
did he go to the dump and dump those so a lot of people speculated early that this was a tactic to get him behind bars
get him thinking about what happened get him away from everybody and therefore he
would then come forward and maybe could possibly confess to this the other thing though too is you know
we talked about what does not sound good for for Ron what does look good to me is I don't
think that he looked like the bridge guy I think Ron looks considerably older than what I think I'm seeing in that
picture and he I don't think he matches the description not only does he look older he looks a little bit he looks
taller to me then then what we believe we are looking for and then in July of 2017 after everyone was waiting and
waiting for the other shoe to drop for some kind of new information on the case the Indiana State Police released a
sketch of the murder suspect the person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a white male between five
foot six inches tall to five foot 10 inches tall weighing 180 to 220 pounds with reddish brown hair and eye color
unknown right so this would go against Logan yeah these are the hair color one also the the drawing looks a lot younger
than than Logan looks yeah and this is the this part of the story can get a little confusing for people not so
familiar with the case because there are eventually two sketches released this is
the first one and you I guarantee that people have seen this this is the one with the the flapjack hat on in the
little kind of thin goatee hair sticking out on the sides around the ears and the
individual wearing a hoodie while in the picture that they released to the public
it's very pixelated so then one would have to start assuming that they had some other angle some other picture that
they found on Libby's phone and that's how they're getting this drawing well that's that's interesting that's always
been another hotly debated item so it's rumored and then later stated on the dr.
Phil show that that that this sketch was the product of more than one eyewitness
who saw this man on the trails so going off of that statement it seems like this
sketch is not Pyle based off what they think they were seeing on her phone or on that footage
but based off of more than one eyewitness who saw or claims to have seen this man on the trails the the day
that the girls were killed now for some speculation on this several people have put together and compiled
some good info on this case these people seem to believe that given the timing of
the known facts and of the persons on the trails that day and Libby's family they're searching for her just shortly
after the abduction for there to be more than one eyewitness of this man many believe he must have been spotted both
before and after the murders some have made a strong case that the man wearing the plaid or flannel shirt that
interacted with Derrick on the trail in her section before 3:30 p.m. people have
pointed out that he must be or very likely could be one of the persons to have seen the suspect and given that
timeline he likely saw the suspect after the murders when the suspect was trying
to leave the area this is interesting on several levels if in fact that if it's true one because it has never been
publicly released where the public where the suspect was spotted and by who and even though there are several theories
out there we don't know what route or exactly where the suspect left the area from right from law enforcement
statements it's believed at least one witness is a man and at least one witness to the suspect was a female and
I say that because in one of the pressors when giving answers one of the officers says she in in response to this
composite sketch so and I would argue or just speculate that these eyewitness accounts are before pre murder because
where they're found and the area that they're found is is it's off the trail and to then backtrack and to get back
onto the trail to leave my gut has telling me that that's not how it happened that's possible but we don't
know where this where this monster parked his vehicle right and it more if he had a vehicle there at all it may not
have been out of design it may been have had to have been out of necessity to make his way back and backtrack through
the trails correct he could have also avoided the main trail for a large portion of whatever part that he had to
walk back to his vehicle you know tromping through the woods as much as he could until he had to get
back on to the trail and and if you if he had to get back on the trail I would say that would be more likely we cannot
say for certain that the man in the plaid or flannel shirt was one of the people that claims to have seen the
suspect that was provided details to come up with this sketch but I'm guessing based off of that and this
individual has talked with with police pretty extensively if regarding his timeline flannel shirt
man plaid shirt man's timeline right if he if he tells police I did not arrive until to the park or trail area until
this time that might be why the speculation is that maybe he did in fact see this suspect after the murders
because we now what's so interesting about this timeline to me and what we did not know when we first covered this
case is the the window in which the the murders very likely occurred is so much shorter than what we originally thought
right we're talking about it's so very likely that this this all went down between about 2:15 and and maybe three
o'clock right it seems to be generally believed or or theorized that the killer had already made his way
out of that general area by the time or shortly after Derrick Libby's father arrived and looking for
her and I think you can base that that thought off of his interaction with the flannel shirt man right all right sorry
I went down I went down a long road there but thank you for for joining me on it there but I also want to bring up
the fact that based on it's speculated because they're not telling us how they died how they were killed right but from
some of the rumors out there that you would think that this guy would have some kind of blood on him there would be
some kind of blood evidence and so that's why like I said whether you're leaving from a different way that you
came in because you could backtrack somewhere or like you said and I agree with you staying off the path as long as
you can because you have this evidence on you that something bad happened and so so I think that again they have all
this information they're only releasing bits and pieces so we can only speculate
on some of these things you know what I do want to point out real quick while we're on that topic before before the
thought leaves my tiny little brain here there is one youtuber who's done well there are several youtubers that have
done a lot of work on this case some of it good some of it bad just that's my warning if you choose to go down that
path don't say that Nick don't say that the colonel and the captain sent you go in there swim at your own risk some of
it is good info and some of it is absolutely painful and terrible to watch yeah but that's not stuff right but at
the end of the day there's two murdered kids and I think that's why the community has in the community of true
crime errs have trying to got behind this case and and try to do everything they can to put the word out there and
sometimes people get fixated and their ideas and fixated on you know it has to be
this Logan guy or has to be the father has to be the grandfather they just get fixated but at the end of the day I
think they don't mean harm by that I think they're really trying to bring attention to the case well this is one
thing that I found super interesting that this this guy did and I can't remember his first name last name green
Oh green oh has done a lot of YouTube work his case and one thing that he did that I found incredibly interesting was
he had a man we're about the same color of jeans cuz that's one thing you can't dispute that's not up for debate we know
we can look at that picture and see what color those jeans are that the guy was wearing and so he had somebody wear the
same color of jeans and remember what we do know is this the killer the bridge guy would have had to cross that Creek
at some point and it would either be because he ordered the girls across the creek and killed him there or he
transported the bodies there or he or he chased after them because they tried to
make a run for it right so those are two known facts and this is what I think is
brilliant anybody anytime anybody can take some known facts and then do a little experimentation with them yeah
fantastic work so so a big kudos to green oh there but what he did was he had a man wear the same color of jeans
and then walk across that Creek at that shallow area and then very shortly afterwards he videotaped the guy's jeans
which sounds silly but what he's pointing out is and it was very clear on on the from his footage if this man if
the bridge guy were walking and later spotted by somebody it's very likely that nobody would say I saw a man
wearing wet jeans walking on the trail the way the color of those jeans when he filmed him after the guy walked across
the the water there Brian did not appear to look wet to me which I found fascinating because that was one thing
that I always wondered about once we learned more of the area of where in fact they were found
I kept going well why wouldn't have out of these witnesses and out of these people that were at the bridge and at
the trails those days that day and then all these people from Libby's family there shortly afterwards looking for her
mm-hmm it would have been so easy for police to get a tip that oh I saw a guy that looked exactly like this and what
was so odd about him was he was soaking wet but we don't have that tip right and
again we don't know you would think maybe you would see more of that if the perpetrator chased after them and had to
run through the water but again if it's one of those things where it's the the crime happened on one side and then the
murderer transported their bodies over you could roll up your jeans or whatever but basically what what your stadium
which i think is very intelligent is the idea of even if they walked through the
water you might not have seen this might not have stuck out to you no because all
it looks like is a darker pair of blue jeans it doesn't look like like they're soaking wet it just looks like a darker
color a darker shade of blue and here's the other thing too regarding Mike paddy
and the the property owner Logan Ron Logan look I understand people had their suspicions but I want to throw this out
there just so we can all try to get on the same page this is not some fumbling and bumbling investigation this is the
state police this is the FBI this is the Sheriff's Department this is as many agencies as you can possibly think of
working together putting all their resources into solving this case at keyword FBI if the if the bridge guy was
somebody so close in social circle to one of the victims such as Mike patty or somebody so close
in proximity as to Ron Logan to where the bodies were found on his property it's been over two years this thing
would have been solved by now now nobody's out there standing on a hill saying I'm going to die on this hill
and argue this to death that these two were not involved nobody's doing that so there's still public speculation and
suspicions out there I'm saying that I believe if somebody was so close either in proximity or relationship to the
girls that committed this crime that woods was in fact bridge guide the killer this thing would have been solved
by now it seems so far-fetched that that that that would be the result when this
thing does finally get solved because it will so let's continue on with some some
other suspects here captain well I just want to say I agree with you mostly but again we don't know what evidence they
have and what evidence they don't have and so but what we do know is that they haven't come out publicly and said that
Logan is not involved they haven't come out publicly and stated that that they cleared everybody in the family or
cleared people in closed circles so that has to remain on the table and I think especially the family members are
normally understanding of that you take any case like where a wife is murdered and they heavily investigate the husband
most of time if if the husband is innocent he's saying that's fine keep looking at me keep keep investigating me
if you want you're gonna get to a dead end at some point so I think that you have to keep those on the table because
again we don't know exactly what they have and what they don't well this is where for some the levee broke and this
is on September 17 2017 when authorities in Colorado arrested a man named Daniel
nations for having expired Indiana license plates police say he could be linked to the murders and call him a
person of interest in the Delphi case Daniel nations is a sex offender from the state of Indiana and he was homeless
at the time of the murder so nailing down his whereabouts is difficult to say the least nation's
wife says he resembles the police sketch of the suspect but did not own the clothing seen in the photo in fact she
told The Gazette newspaper quote I can't tell if that is him or not but the one thing I'm not going to buckle on he did
not have that jacket so Daniel Nations was arrested during the Tim Watkins murder investigation
this murder took place in the state of Colorado to be clear he was arrested during this investigation but he was not
been charged in the murder of Tim Watkins even though there are some who suspect nations could possibly have
killed Tim Wright because he was seen and reported to be threatening people with a hatchet on the trails out there
but Tim Watkins was killed with a gun and authorities have been unable to link nations to a gun and the murder of Tim
Watkins well here's what happened in the public eye though you hear here's this guy that was arrested he was on these
trails he was threatening people with a hatchet and you go and he's from Indiana
and I believe he had a probation hearing or some kind of hearing that he was supposed to show up it was he's supposed
to check in regularly because he's a sex offender right he's like supposed he's got a
parole officer and all that jazz and he's got to show up and say hey I'm here I'm still I'm still working at my job
I'm keeping my nose clean I'm not doing anything weird but I was like so he didn't show up yeah but it was like the
week after the murders it was like some weird timing where it's like so not only
do the you know not only do we not know his whereabouts when he was in Indiana but here these murders take place and
you take off and the next right next time we see you you're in Colorado threatening people with a hacked in like
a complete nutjob and if you see his picture and you see the first drawing of the suspect you go I can see that and
then that was it they they were saying that they were transporting back to Indiana mhm and then we just
kind of set around for a while just wondering what was happening yeah we talked about who I think does not look
like the sketch or the bridge guy of what I think I'm seeing in the in the picture there yeah if you put Mike Patti
Ron Logan and Daniel nations in a lineup and said Nick which one of these looks like the bridge guy I'm saying
Daniel nations please step forward here he looks to me a much more like potential launch guys than the other two
yeah same hair color as described as well same weird face but he he claims his alibi is that he was tagging along
with his wife for a doctor's visit that day too which later she says I believe he was with me but I can't I can't prove
100% that he was in fact with me that day now keep in mind she's being asked this you know six months later right
seven months later we covered Tim Watkins case if anybody's interested in checking that out earlier this year in
March this is episodes 284 and 285 and we also covered the Daniel nations portion of that case in depth in those
episodes On February 14th 2018 one year after the double homicides of Libby and Abby
authorities say Daniel Nations is not a suspect saying quote we went out to Colorado and we spent a little bit of
time with Daniel nations and he is not a person we care a whole lot about at this
time this comes from superintendent Douglas Carter with the Indiana State Police he said this at a news conference
this is where I think the the DNA question comes up right because you and I have been fairly vocal about this on
off-the-record or on our other show questioning if in fact they have DNA now what we can report is this we know that
early in the investigation it was stated that they had DNA that disappeared from
the news at some point and disappeared from their statements at some point yeah there's also rumor that very quickly I
mean we're talking like the next day two days after the girls were found very quickly in this investigation the first
48 force first 72 hours after finding the bodies the local rumor is that the state police were in the area knocking
on doors not only interviewing everybody that lived in the immediate area but also asking them to submit DNA right
which would lead you to believe that they have DNA but what if it was just like you know as a cautionary measure
and we're talking to you will you submit DNA you will thank you so much autopsy comes back we have no DNA from
the perpetrator and you're exactly right and that's that's the whole problem with
public perception on this case and others as well you can't immediately go while they're
asking people for DNA so they must have it you just you can't believe that because it is a tactic it's an
investigative tool just to see if you can make somebody squirm and if they squirm when you ask them a question or
ask them to cooperate in any shape or form then you want to know why the hell they're squirming right right so I
acquire you a SCORM environment yeah I I agree with you 100% here captain I personally think that they have DNA or
some form of DNA and I say that for a couple reasons I'm not convinced I'm not 100% convinced I could be talked the
other way but this this whole statement of of Daniel Nations is not really somebody that we really care a whole lot
about that's that's like a vague statement of almost well did you clear the guy because that sounds I mean the
public it seemed like like watching the old Frankenstein movie where the where there's a mob with torches that are
ready to hang this guy yeah and in you come out with some vague statement and I'm not criticizing police because I
think they've done I think they've worked incredibly hard on this case but the vague statement
they've not been willing to show their hand they don't have to they don't want to it's it's almost where this is
something I'm not really worried about right but we have two dead kids and it's been over two years and oh but I I do
not want to invest don't have to show their hands they don't they don't right but I I would I understand who the
victims are I'm not going to ask them to compromise their investigation in any form or fashion no I don't want them to
compromise it No so what I don't understand what you're asking no what I'm saying is that I think your
statement is a little silly because it's like well then they don't have to show anything they don't have to do anything
well whatever their they've done so far it obviously hasn't worked I mean we have evidence of that so I I don't know
what they're supposed to do I'm not I'm not a detective I couldn't tell you what
they're supposed to do I leaned towards the idea that they don't have DNA and the reason why is
because normally when they have solid DNA in cases especially child murder cases we've seen this with Jon Benet
Ramsey and other cases like that where they test the DNA and they definitively tell you that this guy's cleared you
sure I mean and that's where I wonder if they have it because if they if they do
have it and they're testing people and they're clearing people and they're not making that public you know public
knowledge then that's a bad thing because just you take this Logan guy for example these these girls are found on
his property thirty acres which is pretty freaking big think about the ringer that they put him
through and if they had the DNA to test against his who's they that put Ron Logan through a ringer is that law
enforcement or the public because law enforcement is not in charge of the public no I understand that but again if
law enforcement has the DNA and they matched it and it didn't match Logan's DNA then I think you have a
responsibility when you know the public is going after this guy like you said like the old Frankenstein movies you I
think you have a obligation to him you're supposed to serve and protect each individual and if you have a test
that definitively shows that he wasn't involved I think you have the obligation to then come out and go hey we know that
people are speculating that even though he was right but that's that's my reasoning that to me that's the evidence
that they don't have the DNA because or that they don't have Ron Logan's DNA yeah but he was arrested they could have
taken his DNA then and same way--with nations so here's to individuals is that our highly suspect on top of that a
third end of is that a felony charge because I think in most states that you have to be charged in convicted of a
felony to be forced to submit your DNA I could be wrong but that's my understanding before s--
but if you're again again okay obviously we don't know for a fact if they have Logan's DNA or not
do they have nation's DNA do they have you know the grandfather's DNA I'm not for sure but I would just assume it if
I'm the grandfather and everybody's saying hey you kind of look like the bridge guy and they in law enforcement
tell me they have DNA and I know I'm not the killer swab me up so that to me that's you like like it's like you said
to me there's not definitive evidence but to me there's enough showing me they're not it's just like with this
nation out of nowhere it's kind of like well we're not that interested their exact
words are he is somebody that we not we do not care a whole lot about at this time right but again that's not
definitive right that's what I said a vague statement right so that makes me but that makes me feel like they don't
have the DNA evidence because they're kind of like well we don't care about them at this time but I think if they
had DNA evidence they would say we're not interested in him with him about this case period not like we're not
interested with him at this time again though I go I I think that that goes back to a couple of things 100% it comes
back to whether they have DNA or not but on two different levels I think if they
don't have DNA they want and they're fine with the bridge guy walking around believing that they have it or
suspecting that they have it right so they don't want to show their hand on that front if they don't have it now if
they do have it and there's something up with it right that's tricky too there could be some kind of whether they call
that one there's actually a mixture well there there's a bazillion different things that could be going on with it
so one it could be that they have it but it their sample is of such that they need to compare it to a profile and they
can't really do a whole lot with it without having having a match to compare it to Brian if that's the case that's
difficult or they could have it and it'd be contaminated right they could you know what I mean there's there's a
million different things that you can really go into here the reason why I go on the opposite side and what's
interesting I think here is that really you and I kind of have the same argument
for different sides of the fence is that my where I lean to that they probably have some form of DNA is that they are
somewhat dismissing people and we see that with nation which is which is the same in just as
good of an argument as you're saying well they've not cleared other people who probably should be cleared in the
eyes of the public right and so therefore it makes me think that they don't have it I did do a and the other
reason why I say that too though is it's with the press conferences with talking
with with the family members and everybody's respect for these law enforcement officers and the respect
that I you could you got to give it to him just when you hear the press conference how much they care how much
they're working towards us they seem like good officers and if they were able to clear guide that that the society was
trying to throw shade on I think that would do it you know a hundred percent I think they would come out and say a
hundred percent this person is not involved in the murder of these children I can't wait until they do solve this
thing because I think that the the full story that comes out about the investigation and the way that they took
this the directions that it's gone in whether they took at that direction or the investigation led them in that
direction I think the it will end up being a very interesting story from that aspect of this case and I I think that
like just like they have said we can't we can't tell you everything that we know one day we would like to sit down
and do that and where I say that I they don't have to show their hand and I don't want them to and you question well
it's not working it's not working in the sense that we know that they've not arrested the killer they've not arrested
the bridge guy he's not sitting there waiting to go to trial but where it where in fact it that same tactic may be
working is they may be crossing people off their list and the suspect pool is going to get shorter and shorter and
shorter and smaller and smaller and smaller so it may be working in some form and fashion that's just not obvious
to us [Music] make sure you join us back here in the garage tomorrow for part two until then
be good be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Source: https://www.podbean.com/eau/pb-dsr38-b8f19d

Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320 Part 1 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com This week we revisit a case we covered back in May of 2017. This case is now over two years old but it is far from cold. We will explain why as we give a complete rundown of both the timeline and the suspects. Beer of the Week - pFriem Pilsner by the pFriem Family Brewers Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps Thanks and praise to this week’s sponsors! www.JoyBird.com/Garage - get 25% off your first order with code GARAGE www.NativeDeodorant.com - use code GARAGE for 20% off your first purchase

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Brief Summary

The episode details the Delphi murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, discussing the timeline, suspects, and ongoing investigation.

Key points

Timeline of Events. The timeline of events leading to the girls' disappearance is laid out, starting from their drop-off.
Double Homicide Investigation. The case is officially classified as a double homicide investigation with no suspects in custody.
Search Efforts Intensify. As family members join the search, concern grows for the missing girls.
Joybird Furniture. Joybird offers handcrafted furniture tailored to your specifications, ensuring quality and comfort.
Libby's Audio Recording. The release of Libby's audio recording of the suspect sparked over a thousand tips.
Reward Grows. The reward for information in the case increased to $200,000, heightening public interest.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

We feel confident and we're going to do everything we can to reach justice.

Sheriff assures the community.

5:03WatchJul 24, 2019

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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