Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre ////// Part 2 | Forensic Files

hey I'm journalist Sam Sanders I'm poet S Jones and I'm producer Zack Stafford and we are the hosts of a podcast called
Vibe Che on Vibe check we talk about everything news culture and entertainment and how it all feels
that's right we talk about any and everything on our show from real life issues like grief to music and movie
critiques and that barely scratches the surface yes indeed and it doesn't stop there we have got a lot to say so join
our group chat come to life follow and listen to Vibe Che wherever you get your [Music]
podcast Work Management platforms uh endless onboarding it bottlenecks admin requests but what if things were
different [Music] found monday.com is different no lengthy onboarding beautiful reports in minutes
custom workflows you can build on your own easy to use prompt free AI huh turns out you can love a Work Management
platform monday.com the first work platform you'll love to use [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always
is a man who is actually seven but he looks much older he is the captain well my middle name is Benjamin it's good to
be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking Aztec death
Whistle by tactical Brewing Company tactical is brewing up some amazing beers with equally amazing beer can
artwork and this Imperial white Stout is delicious with an ABV of 9% garage grade
4 and a half bottle caps out of five and cheers to our amazing garage Army specifically here's a shout out to
Catherine who is feeling FY in Allentown Pennsylvania and a big we like your JP to Kimberly and Marshall North Carolina
and a huge thank you and cheers to Steven and beautiful Santa Barbara California and a big shout out to Carrie
in Goodletsville Tennessee next up Captain we have Benjamin or as I like to say Benjamin in Parts Unknown most
recently voted safest city in America by where it's at magazine and also in beautiful Parts Unknown we have Ashley
and Michael Parts Unknown was also named the sexiest city in the whole universe well thanks to everyone that
contributed to this week's beer fund the feeling FY reference comes from an old t-shirt that we put out after four after
a four-part series titled boys on the tracks which came out back in March of 2017 episodes 9345 and 96 all of the old
episodes are available for free on the free to download Stitcher app and all of our t-shirts and other merchandise are
available on the store Page at true Crim garage.com and guess what that's enough
of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime let
let's talk some true [Music] crime Captain we went through the case and much of the details of the case and
covered it pretty well yesterday what I want want to get to today is we have several things way to give yourself a
pat on the back oh you're welcome you know you're welcome world we really did a great job well there are several
things that I want to get through today and get your opinion on and kind of dissect them a little bit because there
are a lot of question marks in this case and this still unsolved case when we went through the details one thing that
we were talking about is how fast the gunmen moved and all the actions that they took to get in there get whatever
they were looking for or presumably get the cash that they were seeking out flee
the area afterward one thing I've often wondered about this case were the gunmen
waiting for 9:00 a.m. to make their way into the bowling alley we know that we have employees inside of the bowling
alley and they're active and they're working at 8: a.m. but the bowling alley was not scheduled to open until 900 a.m.
I wonder with the short amount of time and given how close we were to 9:00 a.m. were the gunman outside waiting for that
9:00 hour to hit and as soon as those doors were to be unlocked make their way inside No I say I say nay I say these
individuals knew what time the employees arrived and this crime happening in 1990 I would guess if this happened
today what you could do simply is go back through through your surveillance footage for the last couple weeks cuz I
believe these individuals would have been there would have been around that area would have been casing this bowling
alley for quite some time to have this information yeah I think a couple of possibilities could be likely here and
of course we there's no way to know for sure until we bust these guys until these guys are apprehended we may not
know why they did what they did or exactly how they planned what they did but what I think think we see here is
what we talked about yesterday it appears that they already decided on the plan because they're moving very fast
Through the Motions to get back out and to flee the area the thing that I think that we we might be looking at some
possibilities you know often when these businesses are hit a lot of times you want to hit them when they're closed
because you don't want to have the added risk factor of additional people being inside the building customers so often
what these offenders will do is they will hang around outside of a place and they will wait for things that will
cause the doors to be open or unlocked you know deliveries or employees coming and going from the building to a car
often what an offender or robber will do is wait for someone simply to take out the trash jump them stick a gun in their
side out in the parking lot and walk back into the establishment with them take the money that they're looking for
and then flee the area right I think we could have one of two things either yes maybe they were waiting for 9:00 a.m.
seems like they arrived a little early to just be standing around a place that you're are going to eventually Rob right
but if they were standing there waiting around to rob the joint maybe they saw Steve scac enter and then
exit the building both times without having to use a key or locking the door behind him right and thought you know
what as soon as this dude pulls away we're going to walk in to the place and take it over or maybe it was as simple
as they were going to walk up and knock on the door and if the person opened up shove a gun in their face and work their
way in to me if it if it were me trying to pull this thing off I would want to avoid that 9:00 a.m. when there could be
additional people coming in in and out of the building with the customers and the doors being open and the business
being in operation at that time well maybe not so much if it was a Monday or Tuesday but this is a Saturday this is
going to be a lot busier of a day for the bowling alley that's why I think the level sophistication of these criminals
is very high I would I'd even look into somebody that had some military background I'd also like to know if
there was a set schedule of who open cuz we know that the daughter opened up so I'm assuming some days the daughter
opened up and some days the father would open up or possibly her brother which again if you're two men with a gun it's
less likely of a risk that somebody's going to fight back if they're female right or if they did fight back
you have a better chance of controlling the situation so did these perpetrators know that there was a schedule there was
a system and and that's again that would be little things that I think you could
find out if they had the surveillence footage of this buling alley right and just to throw a little tidbit of
information in there on what you were talking about one thing that's interesting is the owner
he Ronald cak at the time he was living in the bowling alley but he was not there that weekend he was in I believe
he was in Arizona on a golf trip that weekend well and think about this they're they're possibly are people that
could connect these individuals to the owner or to the bowling alley or to other people that
they knew but but they're dead so we we don't have that evidence again that would be more motive of why did they
they didn't have to kill these individuals mhm but if you were connected to the owner or you're
connected to the bowling alley if these people could identify you any way shape or form then that that's motive to get
rid of all of them right and then speaking to that you know you have two suspects according to the survivors and
what we know about the case and eyewitnesses and such the sus specs did not wear mask or gloves right when I
look at this case I go why wouldn't you just put on a freaking mask and some gloves and go in there Rob The Joint
make off with whatever money you can and not hurt anybody yeah but which eyewitnesses are saying that they didn't
wear gloves the survivors in the bowling alley that were robbed and shot by these
two [Music] guys and we also have Steve scac outside who says you know I didn't they weren't
in mask or gloves when he saw them either well no I buy the fact that they're not again in mask cuz again
maybe you know that these eyewitnesses are going to be able to identify you whether you're wearing a mask or not mhm
the glove part doesn't make a lot of sense to me you'd think how militant they were that they would wear some
protections because that's an identifying factor is your fingerprint well that also leads us back to a big
question that we've been circling around for a portion of yesterday is could this
have been some type of inside job okay if these guys either one of them had worked at this place before they would
have been busted by now so nobody's speculating that you know because that's typically what you get with some of
these robberies where it's a former employee and they know the daily routines and operations of that business
right here what I mean is did we have somebody feeding them some kind of information because it does seem like
you pointed out that the two gunmen knew some stuff about the Saturday operations
of the bowling alley right it appears to me judging by what the set of events that we have during the commission of
that robbery and the murders it appears to me based off what the survivors are saying and how things went down that
these guys knew the general location of the employees well let me run something by you that kind of stuck out to me but
maybe I'm crazy well we know I'm crazy but so we have a situation where we have the
employees at the bowling alley they're all female until the brother shows up mhm so the brother shows up but then he
leaves mhm I wonder if these individuals knew that all the all these women are going to come in to start the day and
that we have a technician that's going to come in and he's male so once they see that this male
entered the building now all the people that are going to be there before it opens are now in the building mhm so
then they get out to start approaching the building and he comes walking out they go well now now this is a lot
easier because we knew that technician coming in was male so there I'm guessing that these uh
perpetrators believe that that was the technician but now he's leaving okay well that's easier for us let's walk in
mhm why they didn't lock the door behind them I don't know but again I'm assuming
that they believe that everybody was now in the building but they just saw that guy leave and drive off and then that's
why they would have been surprised by the technician showing up yeah that's a good question why wouldn't they have
just flipped the lock themselves but they but that's my belief is they they believe that uh the
brother was the the the technician and he already left so we don't have to worry about him now well my other guess
though too would be that you need a key regardless on what side of the door that
you're on to lock the door because you don't want some jackass kid going out there and locking your door in the
middle of business so um or some non jackass kid for that matter yeah he was just trying to be safe you're call
you're calling them names Sor I'm sorry po poor poor jackass kid but so the thing that really kind of upset me here
was the the location of the employees right how quickly they move inside the gunman and then very quickly one of them
knows to go into the kitchen immediately like they knew before they got in the building to expect an employee to be
inside that kitchen working right and that's very troubling to me and and where I took that a step further and
just really speculating and being suspicious of everyone was I was like [ __ ] man this Steve cak he provides a
description of this really kind of weird story right he Des he describes the two
gunmen or the people he believes could be the gunman mhm and then we never find these guys so I wondered for a while
like was he somehow involved if this was an inside job did he pull up in the parking lot that day to one make sure
that the guys that were hired by whomever were there and then he's like oh maybe he found the door locked went
in grabbed his book bag and purposely left it unlocked on his way out then the he pulls off the gunmen make their way
in I was very highly suspicious of the scac family and and Steve cak and the owner Ronald cak was he did he just
happen to be out of town on the weekend that the murders took place or was he conveniently out of town yeah then we
have the issue of Ida okay she was the one working in the kitchen she gives a description that is very similar to what
Steve gave and she survived the attack from the inside and was shot several times I don't think that it's convenient
I don't think that Steve put himself there to unlock the door for these gunmen I think that that whole horrible
weird coincidence of the door being unlocked was just one of those weird freak things that took place and these
gunmen were going to do whatever they set out to do anyway regardless of the the state of the lock on that door yeah
well cuz if he would have just went out to his car again and just put his book bag back in his car and went back in
these these murderers they're coming in no matter what whether Steve's there or not mhm
again I think they knew how many people were supposed to be there and whether they're whether or not they're supposed
to be male or female well the thing too is let's say they did have some prior knowledge because if if they did have
prior knowledge they could have been working under the assumption that there was only
going to be two employees there right we would have the manager the day manager would be there regardless their
duty is to open up the bowling alley for the day mhm it sounds to me like some form of kitchen employee or kitchen
staff member is going to be there on a busy Saturday prepping regardless if it's Ida a woman a man whomever so now
we got two people inside the building before nine I think where it gets a little
iy if you did have some Intel about what would be going on that Saturday morning
is Ron scen act the owner being gone out of town that might be unforeseeable to whomever provided that
information also we have the two girls who were with Stephanie CAC in the office that morning I would bet you
there's a good chance that these guys may not have anticipated one or both of those girls being there now we do know
that they were there to work that day they were going to run the daycare center at the bowling alley that day we
could also presume that if they expected to be out before the mechanic arrived his his shift may not have started till
9: maybe he shows up early that day I don't know but but the other thing is we they wouldn't anticipate him showing up
with two daughters with him they're not scheduled to work obviously they're little kids right so they might have
been surprised by how many people were at the bowling alley I think that they were I mean this is seven victims here
no no I think they were surprised by the technician but again the the other thing
that hurts us in this case is it's 1990 it's a bowling alley most of the transactions at that time would have
been cash cash money you know I used to go bowling all the time couple times a week and it was cash right and most
people would use cash in 1990 these these individuals they I believe wholeheartedly they knew all the ins and
outs they knew this was going to take them 10 to 15 minutes and we just have to be very um a matter of fact about it
and I think they were surprised by the technician and the fact that he brought his two daughters because because they
knew that there was a technician I just believe they they thought Steve was the technician these individuals probably
went bowling the Saturday the before so they would have known also that there was a daycare open but were they
expecting for there to be two children with the technician I think they were surprised by that yeah and that but see
that's the terrifying thing to me is that I don't feel like I can't look at anything in this case and go okay that's
the thing that set these guys off and then they decided to shoot all these people oh that was premeditated right
it's like they went in there going no matter what happens we're shooting them yeah you know like we we covered the
Lane Bryant case and you can point to oh the the perpetrator of that caught somebody on the phone with 911 we don't
know for certain if that shooter would have shot them or not but what we do know is there was a 911 call that took
place and then the shooting started right we have no situation like that in this case and we also don't have any
eyewitnesses or any survivors saying that there was any discussion right these these guys there's no old two guys
huddled in the corner going now what do we do there's seven people and that's what I'm saying this is this is a level
of sophistication these these guys aren't dummies that's also another reason why
the case is not solved these guys aren't dummies they knew like I said it's step by step by
step right and it didn't matter that now you have again I think um less level of sophistic
ation less like again military MH somebody that has killed before once those children are involved that's a
whole another level but as as far as sick and and twisted and level of piece of [ __ ] that you have to be so that's
another level but they didn't hesitate oh now there's children here get in the office by the way we're shooting you all
and we're setting the goddamn place on fire and they're setting the office on fire not the whole building they're
we're we're our the purpose of the fire is to get rid of the evidence and the eyewitnesses yeah yeah to get get rid of
the evidence of the men being in that office and to to confuse and convolute the whole me already me messy situation
and the thing that drives me nuts is this seems so familiar on so many levels to like the yogurt shop
murders again a situ where we have all female workers we're going to we're going to get into that bit of it here in
a minute and I'm glad that you brought that up but one thing I want to make sure that I point out before we move on
too far and I forget about it is Ida one of our survivors the the lady working in
the kitchen that morning she says and there are a couple other people too and I couldn't find people by name you know
reference by name having said this but what I found was Ida and others have said this
that they think that they have seen these two men in the bowling alley before and that they weren't their
bowling they weren't their shooting pool they weren't really interacting with anybody they were just kind of sitting
there looking around now that would explain some of the things because you don't have to have Insider information
from somebody that works there owns the place or previously worked there to to get an idea of the daily operations
right you can you can go in there and you can sit around and you can go you know what all right I see employees
coming in and out of this room over here at this location that must be like some
kind of office or something oh and over there by the bar or by the tables I see employees coming in and out of that room
that must be a kitchen oh we got this huge bowling alley 32 lanes and that's really where I see the majority of the
workers congregating right those are our two places to be concerned with once we
come in here when there's no customers right and it's just like the guitar store I used to work at like we opened
up every day at 10:00 M so all you have to do is show up a couple times when we open but chances are you would have seen
if you got there 10 minutes early the lights didn't even turn on till 5 minutes before we open mhm meaning these
employees haven't been there for the last hour sitting in the dark so if you're going to rob a place like
that you you wait till it opens at 10:00 and you also know that there's not a bunch of customers at 10:00 especially
like on a Monday or Tuesday but in this case they're there 45 minutes roughly 45 minutes to 30 minutes
earlier than the doors were supposed to open so I mean this is this is again maybe it's not that they're getting
their uh Intel from Insider Scoops but it's them casing The Joint right and you know what you could case The Joint to
figure out where the employees are spending most of their time to to have areas to focus on once you enter the
building you don't have to even go in on a Friday night to know that they're busy
you can drive by the parking lot and see how many cars are in the thing to know that hey they're busy they make a lot of
money on Friday nights now the difficult thing here is to know that the money that the cash from the night before is
going to be in the building the morning after that's the difficult thing because
not every business operates that way some businesses do night deposits after the business closes you could follow
employees after a Friday night shift and go all right not a single one of them went to the bank so they're not
depositing the money but that makes it more difficult when the owner lives at the balloon Al right that I don't know
if there would be any way for them to know that mhm unless they were a former employee correct and again I I really
believe if they were former employees this case would be solved yeah unless there was something that the owner did
that these guys had something on him and and this was like a way of them showing
him hey we're we're serious guys that you don't want to mess with yeah but they shot his granddaughter and his
daughter and his daughter even though she survived years later she died from the injuries from that attack yeah so
it's like I I mean what do you have on the guy that that he doesn't go screw it I don't care what these guys have on me
I'm telling the cops everything I know because they they they tried to kill my family yeah and they killed little kids
of people that I know so it you know I I don't really and look here's here's the
thing Ronald cak and there's people out there that know this case really well and they're going to go Ronald cak a
suspicious dude he's look he's not a likable guy I'm not going to sit here and pretend like he's a likable guy he's
your favorite and you know we have people that in interviews say he's not a likable guy the police didn't like him
the police said you know this guy was out talking to everybody after the after the case took place after the shootings
took place he's out telling them stuff that isn't true they looked into Ron CAC and whether you like the guy or not at
the end of the day what we have as we have detectives saying we looked at this dude super hardcore we put him under a
microscope looked at every aspect of his business dealings in his life yeah we spread his cheeks we looked inside and
we couldn't find any illegal activity you know the guy was not a smart businessman he had a successful bowling
alley that he ended up losing it in an auction in a court ordered auction I believe less than a year or maybe one
full year after the shooting but he was not a smart business guy he was not a likable guy but if I really
believe dude if he was anyhow involved in this or looking for some kind of insurance scam or whatever that I think
they would have found this cuz they really honed in on him something pretty good
[Music] hey this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored catch me talking
with my friends about my latest obsessions relationship issues and bodily ailments with that kind of drama
that seems to follow me you never know what's going to happen you can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you
are download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of adree Music Sports entertainment and more subscribe now and
get 3 months free offer details apply you just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday how can you
find amazing candidates fast easy just use indeed when it comes to hiring indeed is all you need stop struggling
to get your job post seen on other job sites indeed sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast with sponsored
jobs your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster
according to indeed data sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs
there's no need to wait any longer speed up your hiring right now with indeed and
listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at
indeed.com podcast just go to indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this
podcast indeed.com SLP podcast this cold and flu season instacart is here to help deliver all of
your sick day Essentials whether you're in prevention mode and need vitamins hand sanitizer and that lemon tea your
nana swears by or you're in healing mode and need medicine soup and a lot more tissues simply download the instacart
app to get sixday supplies that reinvigorate or relieve delivered in as fast as 30 minutes plus enjoy $0
delivery fees on your first three orders excludes restaurant orders service fees
and terms apply hey guys have you heard of gold belly it's this amazing site where where
they ship the most iconic Famous Foods from restaurants across the country anywhere Nationwide I've never found a
more perfect gift than food they ship Chicago deep dish pizza New York Bagels main lobster rolls and even Ina gardens
famous cakes so if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your life head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off
your first order with promo code gift [Music] cheers mates Cheers Cheers Cheers I can't stop
looking at this picture of the suspects mhm these these uh composite drawings and just thinking Sharman Sharman
[Laughter] charman all right Captain well I want to discuss how did these two suspects make
such a clean getaway they were basically undetected yes they were seen fleeing on
foot by one person but I've often wondered were they running to a vehicle or were they running to a nearby house
or building to kind of hide out for a little bit one thing that we talked about when we discussed the I5
killer and it's weird to go into the story and say I5 killer but for those that don't know the story the I5 killer
was also a robber and he was very experienced robber and in fact sometimes he would go in and rob a place and not
kill anybody but one thing that he learned along the way in his robbery career was that a vehicle is a really
good way to get detected to get identified and get picked up and arrested for these robberies and in his
case The Killing so he learned very early on that it was not wise for him to park his vehicle
near the place he was robbing so he would often park it blocks and blocks away because this dude was pretty
athletic the I5 killer he would Rob the place sometimes kill the person and then
he would flee on foot and then get to his vehicle and then drive off I thought maybe that might be what these dudes
were doing maybe they want to flee on foot and then make a a dash for the Border but then we we have a very big
difference between these two different people the the I5 killer and the unknown gunman at Las
Cruses the I5 killer was wearing a mask and gloves when he committed his crimes so he did not want to be detected or
identified where the Los cruus gunman they're not wearing mask or gloves then you have to take it a step
further and go well how much do they really care if their vehicle is spotted right but see again that almost makes me
think maybe they didn't have a vehicle to to run to right but I I also wonder if my theory is correct that these guys
case the joint for a while that they would have thought the brother was the technician and that got and then maybe
thinking that the technician doesn't show up everybody else shows up around 8:00 technician shows up about 8:30
well we have an individual showing up in between that time so he would have been
early if he was the technician did that startle them so they weren't able to put
on their mask or their gloves they went oh there's a technician we got to go Oh you mean for the purpose of fleeing no I
mean that they startled them at the beginning so before they entered the building they didn't put on their mask
or gloves yeah I I don't know um I would think if they brought mask and gloves with them they would have put them on
regardless of the situation we do have a a statement by the LCPD they have stated in the past
and this is pure speculation on their part as well that they believe that the two gunmen may have had some type of
help that someone may have sheltered the two of them shortly after so they could
lay low and then maybe flee the area at another time I have a hard time believing that they just kind of hung
around Los crues for the next 30 years because as said their pictures were plastered everywhere and we have Steve
Cenac saying that is exactly what you drew looks exactly like the two guys that I saw and then we have Ida backing
that up we have the other witness that says hey people that look like that I saw them running from the area what's
interesting is that kind of plays a part into this next portion where a woman named Irma
Tarina comes forward at some point and says hey I think that the two gunmen were
staying with me when they committed the crimes she says that there were two guys
and I believe they were involved in some kind of illegal drug activity at the time that were staying with her and when
the helicopters were flying around looking for the two gunmen who fled the bowling alley she says one of them said
to the other one we're right under their noses and they don't even know it this is a little weird this is a really weird
portion of the story for me Captain because this Irma this herma Arena she passes a polygraph but at some point the
police like she recants her statement saying that she was just looking to I'm a little confused by her
statement it it implied that she was looking for a way to score some drugs I don't know if that meant that she was
looking to provide false information to the police and hoping to collect some of
the reward money but the short of it is she had her demons she was uh involved with drugs and it seems like quite a bit
especially around this time I have in my notes here that she passed away in 2001
from a drug overdose what I do know is that at some point the police seem to be not interested in talking to this woman
anymore yeah it could be I mean we've seen this in a lot of cases where somebody comes for with supposed
information and then you find out nobody was even staying with her these guys didn't even exist they just existed in
our head or some of the things that she's telling them they were probably able to prove were not true right and so
they're like well we we can't uh we can't let her steer our investigation because it's uh
nonsense one of the things though too that is often mentioned in this case is that the locals the local rumor always
seems to have been that the there were drugs involved or suspected drugs involved in this case and then
eventually the two gunmen fled to Mexico and I think there could be some truth to both of those portions of the
story but a lot of that I think stems from the idea that Ida says that she believes from the gunman's actions that
they were looking for something else in the office that day not just the money in the
safe and the way that this portion of the story goes down is that once they're aware of where the safe is or they have
access to the safe that they still continued to look through filing cabinet drawers and desk drawers like they were
all they were looking for something else not just the money in the safe well again this kind of goes to the idea of
what if the owner was doing something shady and these guys were like Hey we're going to come collect from you he
happens then be out of town and then these guys again looking they get the money because maybe the
owner ow the money and maybe or maybe he was going to traffic some drugs for them
and so the drugs are gone but he's never paid them the money so they go in there
steal the money look for any extra drugs or these guys just hear a rumor a bad rumor that's not true that the place is
full of drugs right I mean that that does happen a lot I mean we got the the whole
clutter family was murdered because they thought $10,000 was somewhere in that house and there was no money in that
house yeah or they're looking for money but they're looking for something else that of value that isn't drugs but again
a rumor by somebody well that's where I bring in RJ CAC he's another son of Ron cck and he's a known drug user in fact
he passed away from a drug overdose as well and I believe this was in 1997 or 1999 seems to stick out but it was in
the late 90s he was a known drug user and I believe he was he was known to have maybe even dealt drugs he worked at the
bowling alley in some form or fashion most Reports say state that he was a bartender now obviously he was not
working on that day on that Saturday when the place was robbed and these poor people were
shot but then you have to take it a step further is that does that become the Genesis of this bad rumor or is RJ out
there telling people on the streets stuff that's not true or was he did somebody know that he was actually
running drugs out of there selling drugs at the bar and then they go in there looking for said drugs and this money
from the safe then I want to go to what you referenced earlier here Captain the Austin yogurt shop murders we covered
those in episodes 81 and 82 in 2017 when we covered this I was amazed at how many people told me they have
always wondered if these two cases these two absolutely horrific crimes if they were possibly
connected the yogurt shop murders is an open homicide case in Austin Texas this took place on a Friday December 6th 1991
so less than 2 years later a very similar crime and what do I mean by similar crime at a yogurt shop in Austin
Texas the store was robbed the girls there were four of them present were brutally attacked and the building was
set on fire afterwards all four killed again it's a no one spared situation one of the big difference though was they
were robbed at night right and this was robbed and morning correct and we also have the I mean they they were subjected
to rape and all kinds of attacks yeah where the Los crues situation is much different where the guys the robbers
killers were in and out rather quickly but wasn't there a eyewitness that saw some guys in the yogurt shop earlier
that night that possibly had Army fatigues or well that's the thing we really did our best to try to lock in on
two very who Who We Believe might have been the suspects and they were two individuals that were spotted in the
yogurt shop just before closing time that have never been identified everybody else that entered the yogurt
shop that night as far as we know that were seen by other customers have been identified to this date except for these
two guys the description of these two guys would make them significantly younger than both of our suspects here
in Los crues mhm and this case took place as said after l crues so that doesn't really
track but one thing I wanted to look at real quick was the hold back information
now what is hold back information hold back information is what the police will hold back so that the public doesn't
know about this in case they get false confessions or if they get people that they think are serious suspects
information that they can try to pull out of them to make them even stronger suspects things that only the
perpetrators would know about the crime and the yogurt shop they held back 13 bits of information now we know what
this is because eventually this did go to trial that whole thing is a mess long story short it's still an unsolved case
but let's go through this real quick because I wanted to compare it to Los crues here are the items that they held
back at the yogurt shop one how and where the fire was started well we know that in Los Cruz's Bowl the key to the
front door that's interesting because I would think that the detective would want to have held back the
information that the gunman found the door unlocked at the bowling alley mhm that wouldn't have been people in the
public wouldn't expect the door to be unlocked it was closed the business wasn't open yet right how much money was
taken I think that what we have here at Los crues that they have held that information back all the reports State
4,000 or 5,000 or somewhere between $4 and $5,000 was stolen from Los Cruz I'm guessing that they're getting that
number from what they think the business probably would have made the night before but we have no way of knowing how
much business how much cash the business left on hand or how much cash that the owner stored of his own cash in in the S
safe because that's where he was living well we have the day manager there there
doing the books had she already gone through everything from the night before and counted all the money right they
would know how much was missing now the rumor has always been that they didn't take all of the money and which has
always been weird because sometimes it's reported that they left some of the money in the safe they didn't take all
the money from the safe or they didn't take all the money from the bowling alley which again maybe they already
loaded one of the registers and they just didn't check the register before they left mhm regarding all of the money
and the safe one thing I've always wondered about that Captain because people will point out well that is proof
that they were looking for something else I do believe they were looking for something else I don't think if they
left money in the safe it's proof of such especially if the one portion of the story is true where the girls where
they put the victims in charge of loading up the briefcases may maybe just out of fear or Panic they forgot one of
the areas that there was Cash yeah exactly or they were St startled by Steven teron who came in unexpectedly
yeah possibly or it's a situation I mean look I know it's Hollywood but you watch
the town you watch Point Break sometimes those guys have timers after this timer goes off now we're
moving on to the next thing no matter where we're at and in the process right there are several items on this list of
13 that may not pertain to what we have here at Las crusis a lot of the hold back information at yogurt
shop had to do with the binding that were used to tie up the girls and also some of the injuries sustained to
the victims but we don't have as far as we know the victims here weren't tied up
and it doesn't appear that they Unleashed any kind of violence on these victims before shooting them so that may
not have any relevance in this case unless they did and that is part of the hold back information in Los cruus but
we also have one interesting thing here there were two different caliber of guns
used in yogurt shop and it's believed that there were two guns used in Las Cruz's Bowl as well we have reports that
one of them was likely a 22 but never any reports of the other caliber of guns so maybe that's a portion that has been
held back there's also a couple of references here out of the 13 items in Austin yogurt shop
of additional items that was taken from the shop that that was not money so you have to wonder was there anything else
taken from the bowling alley that has been held back from the general public well as fascinating as I
find this case and as fascinating as I find the Austin yogurt shop murders and if you haven't listened to those
episodes you should check those out I really think it's that there's a control here in this one
and is it possible that these individuals robbed multiple places and started losing control as they went on
cuz this happened in the in 1990 yogurt shop I believe was 91 so did they lose control as they went
um I I just I I view them as different things I really feel like the yogurt shop murders it was a lot more chaotic
perpetrated by different kind of monsters yeah with with different agendas but that doesn't mean that but
to me somebody that has this much control is capable of doing this time and time again without almost any fear
of being caught yeah so one article that I found that I thought was really intriguing Captain this was from the
Associated Press in December of 1990 in fact it was December 19th of 1990 where they were talking to Fred Rubio he's the
Los Cruz's police captain the head of the Department's detectives at the time and he's talking about you know hey I
would hate to leave this profession without being here when they solve this I love the optimism of when they solve
this and he says this case still haunts us now at this time we're talking it's only 10 months old but he says we're not
used to having Unsolved Mysteries here in this city and that is intriguing because not only is he referencing that
hey the case was covered on Unsolved Mysteries but remember in 1989 they only had two
homicides and I didn't go through the entire year of 1990 to figure out how many homicides Los Cruses had in that
entire year but what I did find was two interesting things by February 16th of 1990 Los cruus the city of Los cruus had
seven homicides by February 16th where the year before two for the entire year now of course we know that four
unfortunately four died on February 10th of 1990 right that leaves three other homicides we actually mentioned one of
the other ones earlier in our coverage of this case there was a man that was stabbed and he was found at 23 in the
afternoon the same day as the shootings they solved that they found the guy that
did that so there's one that's down there was a stabbing that took place on February
16th where unfortunately a victim died they located the perpetrator of that murder very quickly and apprehended them
what we have here is almost at the end of 1990 on the 19th of December Fred Rubio says
we only have two homicide cases for the entire year of 1990 that remain unsolved that is the Los cruus bowling
alley Massacre and a gas station robbery that took place in January well what's that case called all right Captain let
me run this by you and you let me know your feelings here this is from an old Crim Stoppers article it says that they
are looking for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of the persons involved in the Robbery Homicide
that occurred on January 14th 1990 at Ray's Shell station located at 2417 West Picacho in Los Cruses the Los Cruses
Police Department was called to the scene at approximately 10:04 a.m. where they found the attendant Salvador Zano
lying face down in the office area further investigation revealed that the victim had been shot one time in the
back of the head the victim's hands were tied behind his back the caliber or type
of firearm used has not yet been determined investigators believe there was more than one person involved in
this robbery murder investigating officers have been able to determine that a robbery did take place prior to
the victim being shot and I'm going to go off of article here for a second I did some further snooping and found that
it's believed that a approximately $500 was stolen from the gas station before this man was murdered and then they go
on to say anyone with information please call the Crim Stoppers or call the New Mexico State uh police so what I'm going
where I'm getting at here Captain is that 30 years ago these two crimes took place less than a
month apart in time the distance between these two businesses both located in Los
crues is 3.2 miles from one another they both took place on a weekend day in the
morning this was on a Sunday at 10:00 a.m. well they found the victim at 10: a.m. this could have taken place at 8:30
or 9:00 a.m. but we have LA Los Cruz's bowl that took place on a Saturday and we know that the murders were committed
before 8:30 on that day there seems to be a lot of similarities here where they're shooting unnecessarily shooting
the person who is attending the business that they are robbing shot in the back of the head more than one offender both
still unsolved after 30 years not just the two unsolved homicide cases from 1990 well definitely some very
interesting similarities in those cases you almost have to wonder if either police have reason to believe that
they're not connected proof that they're not connected and we just don't know about
this or is this a situation where the gas station was not that big of a score $500 roughly and you have to wonder
where they looking for a much bigger score and thought that Los Cruz's Bowl could be what they were after not just
the money in the safe but maybe some kind of drugs or a large quantity of Narcotics are on scene as well and then
this horrific crime multiple murders on the same day and now it's just too the the heat has been turned up they got to
get out of Dodge it's it's a tricky situation because you want both of these crimes to be solved and then you sit
here and wonder is it the same perpetrators and that's why neither of them have been solved for 30 years
mhm well again with the evidence being destroyed with the fire mhm these individuals what we do know is how
vicious they are and you would think they're so vicious over even such small amounts of
money that they would eventually get caught yeah you yes or end yeah end up in prison for some other offense or even
some other murder mhm we do have some new information that came out recently and this is very interesting and I and I
hope and pray that this goes somewhere somehow because we still have people that are hurting very bad and here's the
other thing you got to keep in mind too when we talk about there is no real closure in these cases and that is
absolutely true and victims and family members of victims will tell you there is no real closure in these cases but
one thing that I think's important to bring up here when you have a situation like this where you have multiple people
multiple victims some of them did not survived that day mhm and some of them did unfortunately the ones that were
lucky enough if you want to call it that lucky enough to survive that day they live in fear for the rest of their lives
because they know that these two gunmen are still out there somewhere or could be out there yeah could be out there
somewhere so when we talk about no real closure that might be some pretty significant form of closure for our
surviving victims well we hear a lot that that the family deserves answers and answers doesn't always mean closure
but answers are important knowing what happened and why it happened mhm is important even if they're never going to
get closure yeah because you can't bring people back and that's the that's the sad sad truth but we've had the
30-year anniversary I guess if you want to call it that it's been 30 years since
these murders took place and that was of course in February of 2020 and we wanted
to cover this ideally we would have covered this right around the anniversary but we were busy doing our
Shaker Heights project at that time and it couldn't couldn't be put off any longer so here we are now captain and
I'm kind of glad that we waited a little bit because we wouldn't had this little
tidbit of information had we done this case back in February so what happened was on the 30y year marker we have Los
Cruz's Crime Stoppers upped the reward for information on the ID of the possible suspects this is to
$30,000 and around the same time we have ABC7 anchor her name is Stephanie Vil she said that around the 30-year
anniversary she received a call from a woman originally from Los cruus who gave her the name of a
man the tipster is certain is the younger of the two attackers the younger gunman right she claims that his family
knew or had a decent idea that he committed the crime but remained quiet about it all of these years this man
that she is implicating killed himself in 1997 we will see if this comes to be what comes of this information I'm sure
we'll find out here hopefully sooner rather than later the Los cruus Police Department still urges anyone with any
kind of information at all no matter how seemingly insignificant to please please call Crim
Stoppers at 1 800222 [Music] 8477 thanks for listening thanks for joining us in the garage
do we have any recommended reading this week Captain I am very excited to recommend to the good garage people an
incredible book this is one of if not the best True Crime book of 2020 so far the book is called the Garden State
Parkway murders a Cold Case Mystery by Christian bar the Garden State Parkway murders is the true story of two College
friends who were brutally knifed to death and their bodies left off the parkway the author identifies several
suspects including Infamous serial killers Ted Bundy and Gerald stano this wonderful book is the result of nine
years of nose to the Grind investigative research and it's out of wild blue press
a premier publisher of True Crime books so you know it's good check out the Garden State Parkway murders and other
titles on our recommended page at True Crime garage .c yeah and with the holiday next week we will be off we have
we'll still have off the Record but we have something very exciting for you so make sure you're following us on Twitter
or Instagram or Facebook because next week there'll be some very exciting things happening with the garage we are
going to be hot and heavy as they say h the hot tub if you're not following True
Crime garage make sure you get that started today you don't want to miss out on next week everybody have a great safe
and wonderful 4th of July until next time be good be kind and don't litter [Music]
[Applause] [Music] [Music] hey friends Ted dancing here and I want to let you know about my new podcast
it's called where everybody knows your name with me Ted Danson and Woody harelson sometimes doing this podcast is
a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after cheers wrapped 30 years
ago plus we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since like Jane Fonda Conan O'Brien Eric Andre Mary
Steen burgon my wife and flee from the Red Hot Chili Peppers and trust me it's always a great hang when Woody's there
so why wait listen to where everybody knows your name wherever you get your podcasts
[Music]

Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre ////// Part 2

Part 2 of 2

Original Release: 7-1-2020

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

This week Nic & the Captain go through the details, updates and speculation of a horrific mass shooting. The Las Cruces Bowl shooting of 1990 is one of the most well known unsolved cases of the Southwest, but there is still hope. Investigators believe that after 30 years of searching this case is still very much solvable. Join the conversation and find out if the Garage agrees.

Beer of the Week - Aztec Death Whistle Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

The episode covers the unsolved Los Cruces bowling alley massacre, discussing suspects, eyewitness accounts, and potential motives behind the crime.

Key points

Introducing Vibe Che Podcast. Hosts Sam Sanders and Zack Stafford invite you to join their lively discussions on news and culture.
True Crime Garage's Beer Review. Nick and the Captain review a unique beer while giving shoutouts to their listeners.
Suspicious Timing of the Robbery. Discussion on whether the gunmen were waiting for the right moment to strike.
High Sophistication of Criminals. The hosts analyze the planning and execution of the robbery, suggesting a high level of sophistication.
Premeditated Violence. Discussion on the nature of the crime, indicating it was premeditated and violent.
Ronald Cak's Character Under Scrutiny. Ronald Cak is described as unlikable and suspicious, but cleared of illegal activity.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I wonder with the short amount of time, were the gunmen outside waiting?

Speculation about the timing of the robbery.

5:14WatchFeb 17, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.