American Murderer /// Part 2 /// 624 | Forensic Files

[Music] thank you [Music] [Music] thank you foreign garage wherever you are whatever you are
doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who
says movies don't create psychos movies make psychos more creative here is the captain it's good to be seen and good to
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with and Colonel that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's
talk some true crime [Music] here [Music] is good [Music] the FBI and Arizona police are still
looking for a wanted man Jason Derek Brown who is accused and responsible for a 2004 armed robbery that resulted in a
homicide this guy has been on the run for 18 years now and as we discussed yesterday Captain we brought up the fact
that we covered the FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives list back in 2017 and I pointed out that the list has changed
considerably since then there's only one individual still on the list that I believe was on the list when we
discussed it five years ago and in fact our episode may have done some good because there was change to the list
within days of us releasing our episode so if you go to truecrime garage.com and
you check out our blog most weeks when we put out an episode we put up a a Blog on that case and you can get on there
and you could submit a tip you could ask a question about that week's shows you could provide some information a lot of
times we get locals people that are local to the case that we just covered that they get on there with some
somewhat Insider information that you would kind of have to be a local to know and they give us a little more details
about the crime or the person that we might be looking for if it's a missing person's case but if you go to our blog
and you check back from 2017 on the Most Wanted episodes you'll see that we had some good people get on there and
comment and one of the individuals was a Kylie from New Jersey who posted that just three days after we released our
episodes Walter yovani Gomez was apprehended he was somebody that was on the list New Jersey gang member Walter
yovani Gomez wanted in connection with a brutal murder was arrested without incident August 11 2017 they found him
in Woodbridge Virginia and then a week later a little more than a week later Louis macedo
was apprehended August 26th in Mexico and Sarah from Parts Unknown says I like to think that it was because someone
heard this episode and checked out the list yeah and we're still waiting on our checks from the FBI yeah yeah there
would have been rewards in both of those cases and so good to see that the quick
apprehension of some of these people that were on the list as we stated yesterday Jason Derek Brown is no longer
on the list but they're going to have a spot opening up so I'm hoping that they use the excuse of this movie to place
him back on the list and to really put him back into the eyes of the media and it was this case being in the media that
led to a bunch of sightings you know everybody wants to know where could this guy be where is he there were several
sightings we mentioned yesterday that he speaks fluent French and there were possible sightings in Canada he's also
saw somebody that was raised in the Mormon community and for a while at least there were they were getting
sightings of Jason Derek Brown in the greater Salt Lake City area investigators even went so far to say
publicly that they believed that Jason Derek Brown may have been hiding in plain sight among the Mormon community
under an assumed identity and then there were locations as far away as Quebec and
Thailand that have been referenced in the Jason Derrick Brown case as well one thing that I found in my research here
captain that I found fascinating was an article from April 20th 2020 from the Richland source
and the title of their article was authorities Arizona fugitive sought for murder may have been spotted in
Mansfield Ashland Ohio area there's a picture of Jason Derek Brown in the article and the Articles coming out of
Mansfield Ohio and it says authorities are seeking and Arizona man sought for murder that has possibly been spotted in
the Mansfield Ashland area of Ohio Jason Derrick Brown 50 he would have been 50 in April of 2020 of Phoenix Arizona
headlines this week's list of most wanted fugitives compiled by the Northern Ohio violent fugitive task
force and Richland County division for the week of April 20th Brown is 5 foot 10 inches tall 175 pounds approximately
with green eyes and blonde hair he is wanted for murder and armed robbery and Phoenix authorities did not
say where or when he may have been spotted in this Richland County area of Ohio but urged citizens to not engage
with him but call for help immediately on based off his age I mean at this point his hair might not be blonde it
might be Gray and and you'd think that the stress of running from the law enforcement for the
last 14 years would maybe add to those gray hairs but I'm going to just put this out there
a con man maybe the job gets a little easier as you get older because you wouldn't be suspecting
an older gentleman to try to con you well and let's let the experts weigh in on the possibilities of
where he could be too so going back to Lance leasing special agent Lance leasing who was
the agent in charge of this Manhunt and portions of the investigation that led to this Manhunt when he's asked he was
asked you know not just where could he be but also do you think that Jason Derek Brown may
have committed suicide that maybe he's no longer alive and leasing goes on to say quote it's a possibility there are
some family members that will and friends that say that they think that happened Leeson goes on to say quote
it's a possibility there are some family members that will and friends that say that that is what they think happened he
goes on to say I don't know why he fled for a while he planned the flight the agent says that he believes Jason Derek
Brown was ready for this they that he could run at a moment's notice which is what he did obviously and so he said
that based off of that information that he does not believe that suicide would be something that Jason would do and he
says I'm not a psychologist but he doesn't want to get into the minds of all of that stuff too much but he says
if you think of yourself that much that highly of yourself is what he's saying suicide is probably be not at the top of
the list of things that he's going to do well we know what he got from the robbery but we also don't know what
other robberies he might have been involved in so we don't really know how much like
like they said FBI the FBI believes that this individual could have ran at any time and maybe was planning for that how
long was he playing in that four and how much money did he have stash back to do so and did he have other
resources that he already had set up did he set up other accounts did he already
come up with an alias did he already establish an identity alternative identity these are I mean he was a con
man for so long and I don't believe that Jason was a dumb individual I believe he
he did have a brain in him well a big enough brain that he was able to con people out of money right and
continually steal from people and commit fraud over and over again and one thing
that I thought was interesting too is that the reporter asked the agent well what about plastic surgery do you think
that that's something that he Jason Derrick Brown may consider to change his look very dramatically the agent's
answer is look the pictures we have of him are old so he's going to change look and appearance just in age alone but
also um that this plastic surgery was something that Jason Derek Brown may have discussed with family at some point
and that that would of course change potentially changes look dramatically right and that yes Jason would have
every reason to want to continue to hide from the FBI and hide from the authorities so he of
course does not want to look anything like the pictures out there the pictures of him that are
out there another thing that's very fascinating to me is like I was saying before this guy gets his validation from
outside sources but he did live a pretty normal life up until some point when there was a switch that was flipped
and so could an individual go back to that again you see a guy just working a regular job
driving a pickup truck you know change his hair color maybe changed his nose and you go
that that does it doesn't look like the same guy it doesn't act like the same guy
and maybe that's why we haven't caught him yet but it's also super fascinating because he's not the only individual in
the family that's missing that's correct his father's been missing for even longer than Jason has been missing so
that then that makes you wonder was he able and let's just go over his father's story real quickly it seems like his
father was a little bit of a con man got into some gambling and things of that nature
maybe even some gang activity right and and so some people go well he's he's not
alive anymore he was taken out by people and then other people say well he's on the run from those people
not law enforcement but maybe Kings or or organized crime so is it possible that
he had some contact with his father and was they they're on the run together yeah
it's really interesting because his sister of course is portrayed in the movie American murderer and and plays a
large role in this overall story this true crime story but she's on record as saying that she believes or at least at
one time did believe that The Disappearance of Jason Derek Brown's father and Jason himself being on the
Run were were completely tied and completely connected and she believed that it could be connected in one of two
ways either the father their father has stayed on the Run successfully for all of these
years and somehow Jason learned how to stay a ghost based off of his father being a ghost
or the other way that it could be connected in her mind was she said that there are days that she thinks that
maybe Jason Derek Brown is responsible for The Disappearance of his father that and the way that she worded it
captain and her tone doesn't make it sound like he helped his father to disappear in this sense that maybe he
killed his father and made him disappear right that right the the murder of the Armed Guard is not his first murder
look we know he's capable of a heinous murder does that make him capable of murder and
his father absolutely and then is that the only two or there are other murders that are involved because of
Jason Brown constantly trying to con people and probably getting into some sticky situations and maybe sometimes
murdering somebody is the way out of that sticky situation the FBI has also stated that they have reason to believe
that at some point and they don't give it clear information like the more the public knows the more
the public has the chance to help you guys here but they state that they have information that at some point while
Jason Derek Brown was on the run that he likely visited people he knew in the Salt Lake City area but then an agent
goes on and this is interesting too this is something for I hope the listeners ears perk up a little bit and they pay
extra attention to this because because again our purpose of us covering Jason Derek
Brown again is for the purpose of apprehending him just like when we covered the list five years ago but an
agent says quote it's very hard for individuals to change the way they live the way they behave
this is a guy who stays in shape likes Fitness likes to look good we are hoping that he is seen at a nightclub or a
fitness club and then they go on to say that he Jason Derek Brown is an outdoorsy type as well
so he would be very comfortable Outdoors well one of the people listening to our
coverage of the most wanted list in 2017 was writer and director Matthew Gentile
who is responsible for putting out this fine film American murderer which is in theaters now I'll give a little
description of the movie Here Captain it's obviously based on a true story they say this riveting Thriller follows
murder and American fugitive Jason Derrick Brown a charismatic con man bankrolling his extravagant lifestyle
through a series of scams Jason Derek Brown is played by Tom Pelfrey on Brown's Trail is Lance leasing a
dogged FBI special agent played by Ryan Philippe Lance leasing is determined to put Brown Behind Bars when Brown's funds
run low and his pass catches up with him he plots his most elaborate scheme yet pitting himself against
the special agent in a deadly game of cat and mouse and becoming the most unlikely and Elusive fugitive on the
FBI's most wanted list we'll get to that interview with Matthew right after this
quick year break foreign [Music] [Music] for the very first time we have screenwriter and director Matthew
Gentile who is here to talk about his new true crime movie that is coming out based all on a true story or mostly on a
true story and we'll get into reasons why here in a bit Matthew introduce yourself to the audience tell us a
little bit who you are and tell us about this wonderful film that's coming out hi
Nick hi Captain thank you so much for having me um as you said my name is Matthew
genteel I'm a filmmaker and this is my first feature film American murderer it's a true crime Thriller about Jason
Derek Brown charismatic con man who became the FBI's most unlikely and Elusive top 10 fugitive it'll be coming
out in theaters October 21st on demand digital October 28th and I'm here to talk about it with this movie the case
it's based on and with you and your with you you and the captain and your incredible audience and I'm excited to
connect I'm a fan of the podcast so I'm very grateful to you guys for having me on this will be my first True Crime
podcast as recording it so I'm excited to chat with you well welcome in and we covered a little bit of the Jason Derek
Brown story years ago when we explored the FBI's top 10 most wanted fugitive list with our listeners and at
the time Jason Derek Brown was one of the criminals that was on that list the FBI
was seeking this individual and this is very much a an FBI case as well as a local case for the local police there in
the greater Phoenix Arizona area now this is still a bit of an unsolved case because Jason Derek Brown while he has
been removed from the top ten he is still a wanted fugitive the FBI and authorities are still looking for
him because he is wanted for murder and other crimes how do you how does a Matthew Gentile
how do you get involved in this story how how did you become aware of Jason Derrick Brown his
crimes and and then you have to to write this you have to almost live in the mind of this
individual or at least have him on your mind for quite some time well first off it's a great question thank you for
asking me that uh Captain Nick um the way I became the story came to me was when I was
between the ages of 10 and 14 uh before I wanted to be a filmmaker I wanted to be an FBI agent so I used to have a
habit of going on the FBI's top 10 most wanted list on their website and looking
at it to see you know if I could help them catch a fugitive for the reward money I was a foolish naive dream I had
as a kid um I learned about the top 10 list from watching the movie Silence of the Lambs
and then it's less good sequel Hannibal where they showed the FBI top 10 list on
a computer so my tenure my 11 year old brain ran with that and would go on the list and look at the fugitives and on
the FBI top 10 list as you two know from your episode and your coverage on the FBI top 10 list that there's a lot of
there's a sea of pretty menacing mean faces you know you've got Whitey Bulger Osama Bin Laden and quite sophisticated
high level and high operating criminals and then you have on that list this surfer dude from Southern California
with spiky blonde hair who looks so much like Sean and that as I'm sure you know from what
you've read about the case the Jean Penn's body double was arrested twice in the Years Jason's been missing so you
know the first thing I think when anyone sees any image of Jason Derek Brown regardless of my film or before it you
know they think this guy you know it's always been that there was always a little bit of that so his face stood out
to me age 14 uh when I I was 14 years old when the crime was committed he became a top 10 fugitive a few years
later in 2007 but I remembered his face on the on the fbi.gov site so cut to you
know we're about 12 years later I graduated from film school at AFI American Film Institute and you know I
was lucky two short films I had made I made a western and a film about a rock star losing his hearing those two films
were playing a lot over the festival circuit I was getting a lot of attention for them and I was trying to figure out
what would be my first feature as a filmmaker and that's kind of always the big thing when someone when you graduate
film school or you have a short film that does well is everyone says what's your future and I was kicking around a
couple different ideas attached to various Brothers I've always liked films in the crime Thriller drama space you
know the movie that made me want to be a filmmaker is a classic true crime film Dog Day Afternoon you know I've read
that when I was 12 and became obsessed with it my father showed it to me and I my mom bought me the screenplay as a
Hanukkah gift because they used to sell screenplays on Street stands in New York
City and she saw me eyeing and she bought it for me for ten dollars and that was the first time I read a script
so for me I always loved films about anti-heroes um you know criminals you know for me
like a lot of my kids my age were into Pokemon and uh you know whatever it was at the time for me it was gangster's
Convent criminals that was my that was those are my Pokemon so you know I'm I'm out of school I'm
figuring out what my next you know what my first feature is going to be and I'm storyboarding for a shoot I was shooting
a commercial at the time and I'm drawing on my images and whenever I storyboard I
uh I always have something on the background usually it's a it's a true crime docu-series of some kind
and all of a sudden out of nowhere Jason's face popped onto my TV screen the same and I just all like you know it
had been 12 years since I've maybe even thought of him or her you know it but it
just it came rushing back I just saw and I was like that's weird and so I started
watching it neglected my storyboards and I said to myself oh my God this guy is still missing he's still out there
how what happened how did that and so I became you know pretty unraptured and you know I have a mentor named Billy Ray
he's a top screenwriter he's written films like Captain Phillips and The Hunger Games and you know just a great
great writer and great guy and he said to me like his rule of if he should write a script is if I don't if I wake
up thinking about the project that's the project I should do it's a great barometer I think for any you know
anyone in any field and I I couldn't stop thinking about this movie I just you know watching the story about Jason
but you see you know it goes back to what we were talking about earlier for me the movie is as much about Jason
Derek Brown as it is about the web and the people who knew him and who loved him and you know does the various lenses
through which we see Jason throughout the film so for me you know at first it was like
okay cool this has a lot of elements of like a fun pulpy crime Thriller you know
an armored car Heist you know a con man I love Convent stories but what ultimately became the emotional engine
for me and my way in as a filmmaker you know because to me American murder is a movie about family that's the theme
uh every movie to me is a theme and for American murderer it's family um but you know that came through you
know multiple rewrites and drafts and so you know basically the process of how it went
about getting bags I'm assuming you from your question you want to know about that as well you know the the way it
came from an idea of okay here's this guy Jason Derek Brown who interested me when I wanted to be an FBI agent too how
does this become a movie at first I began writing the script you know on spec which means just you know on my own
on my own time thinking maybe you know I could try to sell the script because it
felt ambitious for a first-time director you know to do it's a big you know pretty big movie for that but as I
started writing it I just wanted to research the case you know I started I did begin
interviewing some people I'm not going to name exactly who because I don't want to out them but I did interview people
who knew Jason and were associated or Associates of Associates and I began to gather a lot of Intel information in
addition to reading everything I could get my hands on that was out there which on this case there is a lot of stuff
um so I became pretty obsessed I resembled Jake Gyllenhaal's character in zodiac I just want to know everything I
could and then I began to write a script um and you know the first versions of the script were actually like just
really going with Jason's point of view but what if ultimately the king as the movie progressed was an
ensemble film or it's really about seeing Jason through all these various perspectives and you know we um you know
at first the way the thing that really got it going was I made a proof of concept short of the film I shot one
scene from it which was actually the climactic Squad Invasion um in the movie I did completely differently and I shot
a five minute scene we had this great actor Jonathan Groff in it who was attached at the time and once that short
went around and his show mind Hunter dropped a lot of people were you know interested in it and this company
traveling picture show and she two companies traveling pictures show and by Kevin Madison Carissa befell and Gigi
films ran by Geo Walsh these three producers at various points in the process came together and banned it and
they really backed me and supported me and really loved the script and were you know helped me develop it into something
much better than it initially was and you know we came together and we made this thing in the at the height of the
pandemic so it was quite a journey but you know at the end of the day it was really Jason's Story and it began by
just seeing the image of his face on this top 10 list you know to really trying to see him as a
full fleshed out character who I could talk a lot about and you were kind enough to send us a screener so we've
been able to view it before this our sit down here today and of course the movie
is about Jason Derek Brown his crimes but it's also about his family and then his fugitive status so tell everybody
about your you know you did a lot of research on this guy and tell us about Jason Brown
and what you learned about him in your research well Jason you know there's as I said earlier there's a lot written
about him and part of the you know challenge of making a true crime film I would consider my genre it's true crime
but I do True Crime fiction meaning that this is based on a true story there was
a lot of research but also in the process of making a movie one you know a director and screenwriter and actors too
everybody has to take creative Liberties to make it you know work as a film um so you know what's in there there's
the line between fiction and Truth is quite blurry in a movie like this but you know there was an extensive research
process while I was writing the screenplay what I learned about Jason Derek Brown was you know and a lot of
this is in the film or vaguely covered in the film um you know is that he was a con man
um you know first and foremost that was his profession you know Jason was not a guy who liked to work a nine to five you
know he was somebody who you know would come into a neighborhood with lots of toys Cadillacs BMWs you know and he
presented himself really really is like a rich frat guy you know um in a Suburban neighborhood and we show that
in the film as there's a relationship with his his land lady love interest played by Idina Menzel and uh her son
um you know so he's somebody who had that Larger than Life personality would buy you a drink at the bar you know I'd
take you out you know it just was a lot of fun to be around that kind of charismatic guy you know of his crimes
were pretty Petty for the most part bank fraud things of that nature you know but
he was always basically traveling around place to place never staying one place for too long so that he could you know
stay off the trail of creditors and people who are on to him as his crimes escalated his his pet his Petty cons you
know he started to basically lose the ability to do it he became desperate in his own mind and decided to rob an
armored truck and that became you know what was the central crime that put him on the FBI's top 10 list so you know his
upbringing which there is quite a bit written about and one of the you know the craziest
Mysteries of the movie is also about how his father um who was a con man himself
um you know the the background of Jason's interesting because he actually came from a very it looked like on the
surface of strict Mormon upbringing they were a Mormon family the Browns but um Jason's father was a con man himself
and had criminal ties and he his father disappeared off the grid in 1994 10 years before Jason did
so there's a bit of an odd mystery around that in terms of the research process there was a lot written about
these characters you know which was my main source of information was from there were a lot of documentaries made
about them there were a lot of articles there was even a book at one point so there's a lot there are a couple books
so there was a lot of information out there which you know I read and used and I like I said I did interview people
there's a couple of characters in the film who are what we call composite characters meaning they're based on one
or two folks some of whom were interviewed to give me as much information about Jason as possible but
then I ultimately take all that information of which there is a lot and there's some amazing
true things that happened that unfortunately can't make the movie I I find doing research extremely important
one key part of my research process I will can talk in depth about was my um I have I was very lucky to work with a
detective named Adam Richardson who actually runs a podcast called the writer detectives Bureau writers
detectives Bureau he consults a lot of screenwriters and directors in Hollywood and he actually I'm sure you guys are
aware of the Jesse James Hollywood case yes he actually was a detective who worked that case and I believe he
arrested Jesse James Hollywood if not had a key role in in getting him back here so he was he worked the case of
Jesse James Hollywood and he worked very closely with me and gave me a lot of incredible and valuable insight into the
police procedural process um because you know we were not able to consult with the FBI on the film because
the FBI it is an open case still um even though Jason was taking off the top 10 list it's the case is still up and Jason
technically still is reported missing so you know it the FBI can't cooperate with
filmmakers or authors on a case in an open investigation but you know we were able to use the FBI in the film and all
that but yeah this detective Adam Richardson was phenomenal he really helped me you know make sure our process was
interesting he read a couple drafts on the screenplay and after I consulted with him I definitely made some things
better and more accurate um but while I was even on such shooting you know when we were staging the crime
scene and all those elements I was showing at him you know I was FaceTiming him from the set I couldn't have him
there because it was coveted or you've met people we could have on so it was limited but he was FaceTiming for all
the things like the SWAT invasion you know to the car you know it's every police element in the script the
Stakeout and the storage units all those you know action set pieces this gentleman Adam Richardson was very
generous of this time and really helped me uh you know know as much about police
procedure as I could so that we were portraying it accurately and authentically as possible it's
interesting though too because I look at somebody like Jason Derek Brown and I I
cannot help but Wonder it was it the divorce that spawned this kind of wild behavior that led into a
lot of criminal activity Petty leading up to this execution style murder or was it his
personality that led to his divorce or you know the the chicken or the egg we don't know what happened first or what
led to one thing led to another but yeah he has a very bizarre upbringing to me almost you know raised by
by a criminal like father but also goes off on this missionary adventure and he's talked very highly of
by a lot of people that were very close to him and then he is accused of this execution-style murder which I mean this
is one of the most cold-blooded homicides that I can think of right like right Jason Derek Brown knew he was
killing someone that day when he woke up and when he went to the AMC theater that
day the thing the thing that is so horrific about this to me is he didn't know the individual's name it
didn't matter the individual's name it didn't matter who that person was he was going to rob that armored car that day
and he was going to flee and whoever happened to be holding the bag was going to be catching bullets from
Jason Derrick Brown and in your movie one thing that I want to give you big Kudos on here Matthew is I've read
pretty detailed descriptions of that crime right the way that it is in your movie I don't know that anybody could
have done any better of a job playing that out for the viewers I mean it I think you got it as accurate as you as
one possibly could well thank you for saying that you know and like I said you know just like what you guys do in
making True Crime podcasts you know research and authenticity is important you know and you want to capture it as
authentically as possible you know um yeah and that that you know there was a lot to research because it was a very it
was actually a much more sophisticated crime than it looked like you know because exactly it was very calculated
um is the word I would use to describe the whole thing you know he scoped out the right Alleyway he scoped out you
know he knew what street he could go and you know look um you know I as a filmmaker I find it's
very I cannot make a movie with passing judgment on any character I'm portraying
you know whether it's the antagonist the protagonist in this case you know your antagonist is your protagonist in this
movie um you know and on the record what Jason did is a horrendous horrific act as you you know as you pointed out you
know for me the power of of film and Cinema is that you can look at characters like Jason Derek Brown and
put them under a light so you know you could shine a light on a dark soul and ultimately try to you know without being
sentimental move the audience to understand who this person was I'm not saying like and I'm
not saying feel sympathy for but help them see him for who he was and what he meant to be because you're right
this man did a really horrifying monstrous Act he was also loved by many people and so that's what the movie ultimately
is grappling with is like you know are we capable of having you know of moving an audience to a place of compassion
understanding for someone who is someone who's rotten to the core and did something so heinous and so that's what
I'm you know as a filmmaker and I'm not saying you can and I'm not saying you can I'm just asking the question with
the movie so you know that's what the that's the ultimate central question of like why you know when people ask me in
interviews go why do you want to make this film what made you want to tell the story and that was it for me you know is
can you take someone like Jason and and moving on and you look we grew up in the
era at least my generation did of you know the TV shows Breaking Bad and The Sopranos you know and you watched Tony
Soprano and he's he's a monster he's a sociopath but you kind of can't help but love him a little and so or same with
you know Walter White and Breaking Bad so I I think you know film and TV is becoming more and more sophisticated in
this way especially with all the shows that are out there and and the books and and the True Crime boom that we live in
right now you know thankfully um you know in this true cramp boom it's it's asking the questions of why why did
someone do this and I think you know there's a lot to unpack with this character
um I don't know if that answered your question I think somebody like a Jason Brown lands on this top 10 list from the
FBI for a multitude of reasons but I I personally believe that it's probably because the trail for the FBI on Brown
went completely cold because he's not placed on that list until three years after the crime part of it I think is
the crime itself when you really try to dissect the elements of that crime in the crime that he committed one robbing
an armored car is not common that's not a common crime at all bank robbery is far more common than
robbing an armored car now you rob an arm a car and what you see traditionally typically in those types of crimes they
are much more violent than a bank heist bank heist the majority of them it's some guy passing a note to the teller
that's the way that the majority of them work most of these armored car robberies
involve a high level of violence and in this case murder and Jason Brown ambushed this this gentleman this guy
was a guy just like the three of us who woke up this morning went off to their work went off to their job we want to do
a good job we want to knock it out of the park here today and but at the end of the day our number one goal is to go
home to our homes and to our families and this individual was not able to do so because of the the cold calculated
mind of somebody like Jason Brown I mean we're talking about Robert Keith palomares who was only 24 years old did
not even get a chance to pull his firearm when he's attacked by Brown because Brown ambushes him Brown manages
to get off six shots he's at close enough range we're not talking about a highly skilled Marksman here we're
talking about a guy that ambushed and snuck up on this guy and and the closer he got the faster he was pulling that
trigger he hits palomares six five out of six shots hit above the neck on our victim and that's because Brown knows
that that he is going to be wearing bulletproof vest and he's going to go for parts on the the would-be victim
that cannot be covered cannot be protected this unfortunately this individual didn't stand a chance he he
didn't have a chance there was no fight because he was ambushed by Brown and then Brown this is how cold he is ice
cold he has to walk up to the body and pull and tug on the money bag to get it out of to pry
it from the fingers of our victim here to the point that he drops the bag he drops the gun and then he picks both of
them up before before he flees but I and I think I think when you really kind of
dissect this crime and there's a lot of thought put into it there has to be it's
so calculated you examine the mind and the personality of the type of criminal that would carry out this type of crime
and you see just how dangerous this person is to the general public as a whole because he does not think of
people the way that you and I think of people he does not think of life or this Earth the way that the rest of us do he
sees this as a grid as a giant chessboard and there's a lot of Pawns out there and as far as he's concerned
there's very few Kings Knights and queens and he's one of the kings in his own mind and the rest of us are just
fodder we're we're we're pawns to be dismissed to be done away with so that he can keep going
and that and that always makes him dangerous and then on top of that while he's on the run that makes him extremely
dangerous as well because we've seen what he he will resort to in this situation and now that he's on the Run
who knows what he's capable yeah definitely makes Jason Derek Brown a very dangerous individual and people
that think they might know where he's at should be very careful and contact law enforcement immediately the one thing
that the film doesn't get into dive into too much but I did want to get your opinion on
because you you were you were busy writing and exploring this man and his crimes and
his in his personal life for such a long period of time you know one thing that a
couple things that he did that were very interesting I thought while he was on the Run
at first the police and the FBI even though they knew who who had committed this crime they didn't come out and
publicly announce that because they thought that the The Manhunt would change there would be a giant shift in
The Manhunt and in Jason's actions and behaviors based off of the fact that he is under the assumption that nobody
knows that he did this he may know that people are looking for him or he knows he's on the run but for a period of time
he doesn't know that they know that he's the one that committed this crime at some point they have to publicly
announce that and I think it was about a month or so after um the crime was committed and then a
few years later he his name is added to this 10 most wanted list but well actually just to um just a little
correction there so what what actually happened was in no so the murder was committed November 29th and they figured
it out quite fast uh because of the fingerprint left on the bike they knew it was Jason or they knew Jason was at
least very much involved right on December 6th I believe Jason was staying at his sister's house and the Phoenix
police did have a press conference where they released Jason's image from taken from the gun store which became his top
10 fugitive image and that was put on TV and somebody nobody knows who called or let Jason know that they were
looking for him and that was how he was able to get out before the police and FBI stormed his sister's
house so he was aware that he was one and that's part of how he was able to get away and then he actually drove his car
down to allegedly down to San Diego um they thought he was going to go across the border and then he apparently got
because they he swiped his credit card at a gas station near the San Diego Mexico border and then allegedly though
did not cross they had apbs out for him and disappeared Into The Ether and they found his car in Portland Oregon now
nobody knows if he actually went to Portland OR I am right he could not right yeah that's another one of the
many many Unsolved Mysteries you could have paid somebody to send the car up to Portland but um you know but that's so
that's just you know something to keep in mind was they did they did release um to the president that was considered
I think by many people to be a huge mistake to release his image to the Press when they did but you know they
had their Reasons I'm sure that's that but yeah obviously we can only track so much of his movements uh
if we could track them all we wouldn't be having this conversation right right yeah interesting to me I goes down to
San Diego gives the impression that he might be headed for Mexico and then finding
and then some trace of him in Portland Oregon gives the impression of maybe he's going
the other route to Canada right you know it's like you know he's a con man you know that's to Jason isn't the court to
me always was a con artist how did con artists get you they prey on one's confidence right so you know I think he
you know was and look he was also coached in the art of Disappearing you know part of you know the storyline with
his father is that he would you know they the father who used to save the kids apparently growing up if I'm gone
for more than you know two hours or 48 Hours get rid of everything so you know this was someone who knew
how to you know probably work under the black mark criminal Market get fake IDs whatever you needed to
get on out and and disappear you know so it was pretty he was pretty sophisticated in that way as a criminal
and then he's remarkably unsophisticated in other ways as a criminal so I think that's what again makes him
so interesting I don't want to back you into the corner here Matthew but uh where do you think back and I'll get out
where where do you think he where do you think he is you know we had in the production office of the movie we had a
running list on the window of all the places he might be um you know for a while I I have thought
he was out of the country that was always my guess during the writing of the film I think it was a very good
chance he's not alive anymore I think that's highly possible I don't know if that's true but I think that could be
the case if he is and he's still running my guesses somewhere either in like Australia or southeast Asia would be my
would be my best not you know I guess somewhat educated guess but it's a big mystery but I don't think he
could be in the country I mean he was allegedly spotted in Salt Lake City in 2008 where we filmed the movie and that
was an area where he had tremendous ties to with Salt Lake City so I mean there were people in our crew who knew him uh
who who were very close to people who knew him there was you know he but he had you know when we were scouting pawn
shops and gun stores for the movie there were people who would ask about me like
oh yeah I knew I knew Jason Derek Brown um so they were you know he he had a lot of ties uh to
many different areas you also have Jason's fluid in French I think he also speaks spoke Spanish so
you know that's a lot of the world that he could get through well and so you say
if he is in your opinion if he's still alive probably outside of the country somewhere if he's not still alive what's
your speculation there are we do we think because his attitude his personality to me does not
in any shape or form suggests suicide right me neither what I what I think could be a possibility here if he's not
still around would be look you can only con so many people until you're calling the wrong person in
retribution takes place right um right and that that's kind of where where my my thoughts go to but I mean
let's he might not be on the top 10 list anymore but there's still a 200 000 reward out for right
is for his capture and that's a lot more money than what he made off in his armored car Heist right well that's the
other thing you know people say a lot is you know sixty thousand dollars isn't that much money so how did he
get out and go about how did he disappear like that's not a ton of money you know it's not like in Breaking Bad
when Walter White has all that money to go disappear or you know Bob odenker right or better you
know sell Goodman has all that money disappear this is a different scenario so yeah you know there there's endless
speculation on where he can be and you know to be honest uh you know I got I like I don't feel backed into a corner
by that question I think it's a totally legit question um that I've been asked before you know
but I never really it's never been something that's been that much on my mind you know as a filmmaker I
you know felt like what for me the movie ends when he's gone you know and that's
it and that's kind of where the story ends you know I would be of course if someone updated me and told me where he
was or what actually happened I would definitely be interested to hear but you know the film wasn't so much about that
to me because look even though and now maybe we'll call this a spoiler section so for your listeners if you haven't
seen the movie maybe watch it before you listen to this very small part of the interview you know maybe like for me the
movie is about a loss of humanity in a human as well this this man really eroded his own Humanity to get this
money and he by the end of the film yes he does get away with the crime in theory what kind
of life is that you know he's he he can never talk to anyone he knows or loves again he has to disappear he has to you
know he can't go out much right he has to kind of stay you know so it's like at the end of the day this man
like has disappeared and is is as if he is dead you know the act of him sending a box of all of his things to his sister
you know there's no way saying goodbye forever Jason Derek Brown as far as you know him no longer exists right he's
like erased his own identity pretty much so you know well it is definitely not you know it is
a tragic ending and I think it's a tragic film and the film is tragedy at the core in terms of what the storyline
plays out so yes he does get away but this is there's no happy ending all right for anybody involved and I think
that he um he disappears [Music] I want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage joining us every week
make sure you subscribe to the podcast one of the perks of having a true crime podcast is we got to watch the screener
of American murderer and that's this week's recommendation yes you can find that recommendation and many more on our
recommended page on our website truecrime garage.com go see American murderer it's in Select theaters now or
if you want to stay home and watch it on the comfort of your own couch it is available on demand streaming on demand
as well that's American murderer thank you to Matthew genteel for joining us this week in the garage and check us out
again next week same bat Time same bat Channel until then be good be kind [Music]
thank you thank you

American Murderer /// Part 2 /// 624

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

This week in the Garage we take another look at a Wanted Fugitive case. Jason Derek Brown has been on the run from the F.B.I. and the Phoenix Police now for almost 18 years. Currently Jason Derek Brown is 53 years of age. He is wanted for Unlawful flight to avoid prosecution, 1st degree murder and Armed robbery. Jason Brown is described as 5 foot 10 inches tall and 170 to 180 lbs. He is caucasian, with blond hair and green eyes. He speaks French fluently.

He is believed to be using aliases that include Jason D. Brown, Derek Brown, Greg Johnson, Harline Johnson, Greg Harline Johnson, John Brown and Jay Brown. Authorities urge citizens not to engage with him but call for help immediately. Jason is wanted for 1st degree murder and should be considered armed and extremely dangerous at all times.

If you have any information concerning Jason Derek Brown, please contact the FBI's Toll-Free tipline at 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324). You may also contact your local FBI office, the nearest American Embassy or Consulate, or you can submit a tip online at tips.fbi.gov.

Beer of the Week - Adjunct Trail by Angry Chair Brewing and Prairie Artisan Ales

Garage Grade - 4 and a quarter bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

Jason Derek Brown, a fugitive since 2004, is discussed alongside the film "American Murderer" directed by Matthew Gentile.

Key points

The Elusive Fugitive. Jason Derek Brown has been on the run for 18 years after a homicide.
Impact of True Crime Podcast. The podcast may have contributed to apprehensions of fugitives from the FBI's list.
The Connection to His Father. Jason's father is also missing, raising questions about their possible connection.
The Making of American Murderer. Filmmaker Matthew Gentile discusses his new film based on Jason Derek Brown's story.
The Emotional Engine of the Film. The movie is as much about Jason Derek Brown as it is about family.
Researching a Criminal Mind. The director delves into Jason's background and the complexities of his character.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Gather round, grab a chair, grab a beer, let's talk some true crime.

Invitation to the audience to engage in the discussion.

2:22WatchOct 26, 2022

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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