West Memphis 3 /// Discussion /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

n [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who knows that the most appropriate response to you know
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talk some true crime West Memphis 3 West Memphis [Music] 3 Damen Eckles and Jason baldwi Jesse
Miss Kelly who West Memphis [Music] 3 they were just 8 years old Steven Branch Michael Moore and Christopher
buers found murdered hog tied and naked in a drainage dit in West Memphis West Memphis
[Music] 3 the state stands behind the conviction 2016 and if my math is correct here captain
that was about 8 years ago when we first covered the West Memphis 3 case in a three-part series it was one of our
first three-part series that would be episodes 40 41 and 42 and we re-release them refill style here in the garage
this week and we hope that you enjoyed listening to those for either the first or second time maybe you've listened to
it for the third time but this case always stays on our minds it's one of the red light cases as the captain likes
to call them and it's one that we because of our fascination with this case tend to Circle back to longtime
listeners of off the Record will know that this has been kind of a revolving topic amongst many other cases on that
show and we thought that we would take a little look at how we did it back in 2016 throw it under the microscope and
give our thoughts on our coverage but also things that we have thought and discovered since then and have a open
discussion about the West Memphis 3 case and how it is and how it stands in the year 2024 yeah so for listeners that
don't know my definition of a red light case is simply that you you might lean towards somebody's innocent or guilt but
there might be a point of evidence or a piece of information that just kind of bothers you sits with you funny where
you go well I think they're Innocent but this piece of information bothers me and
if I could just clear that piece of information up I'd have more clarity on the case a red light like the stop
stopping and traffic red light it's a moment when you end up with an extra 2 or 3 minutes of downtime that you did
not anticipate and some of these cases some of these true crime stories pop into your mind
and it doesn't have to be at a red light it could be anytime that you find yourself with extra time to think and
these cases that that just stay in the back of your mind and maybe they nag at you and like the captain said different
details and different moments in those cases and in those stories that kind of stick with you ones that you just find
yourself constantly thinking about and this one has no shortage of the those details and the other thing too here
captain we're talking about a case from 1993 when the murders took place in a trial that took place for the most part
in 1994 there are so many different details in this case that one could argue for
Guilt of the West Memphis 3 the teenagers innocence for the three or undecided and I think this case in
particular has throughout time the pendulum has shifted sometimes the pendulum is it seems like the majority
of people think they're guilty then it switches to the majority of people think they're Innocent but it seems like once
people take a a side they take that side hard and they are not willing to budge from that which has always really
fascinated me because uh initially looking into this case as a child it was like of course these guys are innocent
and then the more I dove in and it's so fascinating like you said I mean we covered this case so many years ago
sometimes it feels like yesterday sometimes it feels like 20 years ago yeah I had a music teacher one time
asked me I was about 18 years old at the time he said on a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think you know music and at
the time because I was young and naive and arrogant I was like I'm a about a eight I and and I'm probably not going
to get to a 10 I just want to get to a nine and then if somebody asked me that question today how well do you know
music one out of 10 I'd say probably a two and when we covered this case so many years ago after we were done
because we it was such a deep dive and not just the Deep dive but then I got to sit beside you to hear your Deep dive
thoughts and when we got done I thought you know I really understand this case I
might not be able to definitively say that they're innocent or definitively say that they're guilty but I really
understand this case and I know all these things that maybe the the average public doesn't know about this case now
however many years later if you ask me how well do I think I know this case I'd say I have I have studied this case I've
done Deep dive after Deep dive there is probably not a YouTube video that I haven't watched on this case there's not
a podcast that I haven't listened to on this case there's probably not a book that I haven't read about this case and
I still feel like my knowledge out of a one to 10 is maybe a two or a three I think that that's the nature of this
story and not really I don't think that has anything to do with you and and here's why I think that a lot of the
literature that has come out about this case over the years starting with the devil's not and then all the stuff that
was on the internet remember this is this case is happening and Paradise Lost one two and three are coming out on HBO
and the internet's really taking off and blowing up with message boards and blogs
and everything else right I think all of the everything that you can read and research with maybe the exception of the
Callahan website is a lot of it is facts that also contain opinions of the writer
correct so I think given given that the nature of this true crime story not the case itself but the nature of this
True Crime Story is always leaving the person in doubt I think to me that that's a sign of intelligence because I
don't love when I'm talking to different individuals on certain cases and they're
so hardcore nose to the Grind this is what happened and here's why and then they followed up with like three or four
really lame examples of why they are right this is one of those cases to me I I do have a strong opinion on on guilt
or innocence in this case but I also try not to let it Cloud anything because this is one of those cases that
fascinates me so much that I'm always in Search and always hungry for more information and I'm happy to consume it
and go into it not allowing my personal beliefs from the information that I've already consumed to taint the new
information that I'm taking in now when we covered it back in 2016 Captain one thing that I liked about the way that we
did it was we spent so much time on the timeline because there's a lot of markers in that timeline that can be set
in stone right they're pretty much fact where there's a lot of debate in every detail of this case the timeline can be
at points pretty definitive so our first episode the Robin Hood Hills murders is
what we titled that one really focused on that May 5th 1993 date and between the hours of 8:00
p.m. and 10 p.m. when three sets of parents called The West Memphis Police Department each reporting their sons to
be missing and part two we got and we we kind of fanned out a little bit from there we dive back into the timeline a
lot of this was spent on the timeline of the parents of each of the victims themselves their movements on the night
that the boys went missing and the morning when everyone's out searching for the boys before Unfortunately they
are found in that ditch right we also got into uh some of the different confessions and introduced the suspects
Jesse misskelly Jason Baldwin and Damen eals and Then followed that up in part three when we went into the lives and
timeline of Jesse Jason and Damian and then started to ask ourselves in the audience as well are these three guys
guilty and if these three teenagers are not guilty then who is and we discussed Mark buers at length we discussed Terry
Hobbs at length we also discussed one of the details in the case that still bothers me maybe more than any other
detail in this case is the strange man seen at the Bojangles restaurant and the fact that the evidence that he left
behind was lost by law enforcement yes not collected on night one and then when they return and collect blood scrapings
off of the bathroom wall then those blood scrapings they never seemed somehow they got lost from the time that
they were collected to the time that they could be sent off to the lab to get us some more information about that
blood evidence yeah a lot of what we did Captain as said was timeline and for good reason and I think that is key
because remember another key component to this case is even though we get kind of some different answers and some
different opinions stated throughout time in this case from medical examiner Frank Paretti he admits having trouble
narrowing down the time of death that's why we spent so much time on the timeline itself and the
that are known in this case close to this case and what we know about their timelines for that evening and that
night because one could examine the timeline of events and really start to put put together a window of time for
that time of death which we know is so important to any homicide investigation well and we believe that these victims
bodies Christopher buyers Michael Moore and Stevie Branch were submerged in water for at least over 15
hours which this is going to be the reason why this case probably gets talked about to the end of time because
what do we know about water water destroys evidence and it destroys some of the processes that we need to take
scientifically to get a time frame and that will make this case I think talked about till the end of time I think
you're exactly right the the true lack of any real physical evidence in this case at the crime scene where the boys
are found yes there is some physical evidence but I I think that if anyone were try to argue that there's a
mountain of physical evidence they clearly don't know this case there is such little physical evidence at this
crime scene a lot of it due to where the boys were found how they were placed in
the water and again that leaves us going back to that timeline and we can really
shrink that timeline largely in part because the three victims were found less than 24 hours after they were last
seen yes Michael Moore Christopher buers Stevie Branch one thing about May 5th the day that they went missing we do
know that all three attended school on that Wednesday at Weaver Elementary in West Memphis
Arkansas and as far as attempting to put together an alibi we also know that Jason Baldwin attended school that day
the three victims were hanging out riding bikes and a skateboard around the neighborhood Hood they are spotted by
several people that evening and it's reported that the last sighting of the three may be their last scene riding two
bicycles on the Service Road next to the interstate around at approximately 6:30
p.m. that evening yeah I believe that I would have said there was um individuals
on bicycle and skateboard and when we say that there was eyewitnesses that saw these three kids throughout the neighbor
Hood you go okay well yeah a couple people saw them so we got a we got a good grasp over 30 eyewitnesses that can
tell you I believe I saw the boys at this time if you go through all those eyewitness accounts you can almost draw
a map and draw a diagram of where we think these boys were at at what time and then where did they go next and then
we know all this information until they go into the woods I think we can say with some level of confidence here that
all the boys were missing by 8:00 p.m. that night right as we established in the previous episodes Mark buers was the
first to report his son missing we know according to statements that Stevie Branch was supposed to be home back at
home at 8:00 P.M but he does not return so then we have parents calling in reporting that their sons are missing
this all seems to be we we get statements from each of the parents of oh this was the last time I saw them and
this is what I was doing and what they were doing at the time that that I did see them so John Mark buers calls in
roughly about 8:00 pm and the key parts of the timeline are this for me this call from buyers at 800m Dana Moore
calling in at 9:24 p.m. and then we don't have a time stamp for this one but we know that it took place short after
the 924 Dana Moore call is the call that's reported by Pam Hobs to be Terry Hobs
calling via pay phone but the complaint given by Pam Hobs yeah and looking back on our coverage I I think we well one I
I think you did a great job listening back I went this is why this guy is the goat of True Crime podcast period and
people need to recognize that other other podcasters need to recognize that and when they should
invite you on their show more often to hear your thoughts and uh CNN Fox News all those people they they should call
bu enough do our garage show busy enough do with the garage show and I I enjoy doing the garage show so this this takes
uh this Takes the Cake everything else secondary well so listening back I went okay well this guy is really smart or
he's just editing it very well and then I was like why the heck why the heck am I on the show episode 40 some we should
have realized oh this guy just doesn't have what it takes 700 and some episodes later we're still damn fools but looking
back on it now and I think I've or I hope I've groaned as as an individual and somebody that's trying to create
content that changes the landscape of of the world essentially I mean sometimes we're
covering cases just to get people to talk about a description of a of a suspect or
hey here's a a picture of a vehicle can you identify this and maybe it can give law enforcement leads looking back on
this coverage the only thing I would say that I think we i' do differently is I would have just focused strictly on the
timeline spaced it out properly and I think I would have left some of the other things alone because I think
they're too some of these things are too big to get into a 45 minute discussion on and if somebody ask me today hey I
want you to cover the West Memphis 3 case definitively as a podcast I would say it would probably at least take 30
episodes it's just a whale of a case and and you brought this up I believe on off
the Record the fact that this case was adjudicated so then once that happens we have access to all these files and once
you have access to all those files the small picture that is painted in the media's eyes becomes a lot larger yeah
and then you have to sift through a lot more information and so when you have a case like West Memphis 3 that was
adjudicated there is so much information to go through and I think to do its Justice to the victims the victims in
this case just to remind anybody that doesn't know or Christopher buers Michael Moore and Stevie branch and I
think to do your due diligence on this case it would take again and it wouldn't be just 30
episodes I think one of the things I'm so impressed by what you did all those years ago was I I think some people
forget we don't have a staff we don't have writers what's coming out of your mouth is what you wrote down what you
researched for good or bad for good or bad but also the time period it's not like we were able to spend six months
only researching writing these episodes this is happening within days and every episode that we cover and so when people
go oh man you guys just put out a three-parter or a two-parter I can't believe how much information you guys
put out on a weekly basis uh yeah applaud Nick applaud the goat because he's doing this each and every week
trying to do his due diligence and trying to be respectful to those victims and tell their story in a just way and
that takes a lot of time and effort and so I just applaud you I know I sound like I'm kissing your ass um don't get
used to it my friend it's really amazing when you stop to think about it for a second how much content we have put out
and and how little time frame we have to do it in in between each episode I get asked
all the time like what episode are you up to now and I'm always like I don't know 700 and something like we we a long
time ago we stopped focusing on the number of episodes because we've we've been doing it for so long and thankful
that we have a great audience that allows us to do our garage show every week it's the smartest audience in the
world I appreciate everything that you just said you know you're you're you're spot on you are spot on because I was
going to say if we're covering this today and there's going to be somebody in their car going yeah idiot you are
covering it today but if we were to be be looking at this case for the first time in the garage with a garage
presentation you're exactly right there's no way we would have done just three episodes on it and this is one of
those cases that even though it is adjudicated one I feel like we're still learning information about this case all
of these years later and two when you go through the files especially all the stuff on the Callahan website where you
go okay well this is everything this is everything and you the answers got to be
in here somewhere and if I dig long enough and deep enough I'll find the answer I'll find that Smoking Gun and
the problem that you will run into in this case is that does not exist if if if that is somewhere I am yet to see it
and I have not spoke to anybody that has I think that that is one of those ERS the kick in the pants with this case
right that you go okay like yeah I watched Paradise Lost and I assumed many years lat you know watching it as a kid
is you walk away with a different interpretation than you do as an adult but for me anyway Captain walking away
from revisiting Paradise Lost as an adult I walk away going well of course they skewed it to to present as if they
were innocent or others may be guilty it makes for a better show it makes for better entertainment but then you go
through everything on the Callahan website and I mean we're talking these are police interviews we're talking
these are tips that were called in yeah I mean other than this Miss Kelly confession and of course there's a wide
range and spectrum of persons thoughts and opinions on the Miss Kelly confession but you go without that that
I don't see how this case was adjudicated yeah there's there's just nothing for me anyway there's nothing
really in those details okay just to be clear nothing in the details that are presented to us by HBO like the case
files for as voluminous as the case file is right there's not a whole lot of great details in there for building a
real true case of against anyone really in my opinion there's there are lots of interesting nuggets of of information
and some detailed information throughout there but but I don't I don't go through
that entire file and walk away from it going I know who did it and I know who they
should build a case against because it's all right here I I I just can't do that
not in good faith yeah I'm going to ask you to hold my beer for a second holding
one of the rants that I have about this case is and this is going to sound maybe
sappy or maybe a A little vulnerable but I feel let down I feel let down by people like HBO which I hold in high
regard of creating excellent content like I said looking back on our episodes I wouldn't have covered it the way we
covered it I would have just focused on the timeline keep some of the other stuff out there I feel let down by other
podcasters um people that have written books about about this I feel let down about this case because I think so many
of the the information in this case that is presented is simply opinions wrapped
up with a little bit of facts here and there and that bothers me I think we could all learn something from the great
step Hawkin he proved something supposedly right scientifically everybody's like Stephen you you did it
you you you Pro this Theory you're you're amazing and then the rest of his life he spent trying to disprove himself
and I think that's a case that's this big that's what you have to do the moment those guys set out to make a
documentary on this case and within seconds of meeting these people said oh within minutes of meeting these people
we knew that they were innocent at that moment it's like maybe you should step away from the case and maybe you should
or it's like maybe you should present it one way and then spend the rest of your
life trying to present the other narrative because I do think in this case our problem and I'm going to try
not to be ranty and I'm going to try not to jump on a soap box a million times but one of our problems with crime and
the crime world the True Crime world is we think it that it's CSI that there is going to be a Smoking Gun and there
doesn't have to be and I and I heard it on this podcast and I I wish I could remember who said it but I thought it
was a brilliant analogy they said let's say you have a case where a kid threw a rock off of a bridge and it hit a
vehicle causing that vehicle to spin out and the person in that vehicle died that
individual was wearing a glove so we have no DNA evidence on that rock but that kid lives in
Arkansas and that kid wears Detroit Lion shirts every day a eyewitness said I saw
the kid can't really make out what he looked like but he's wearing a Detroit Lion's t-shirt now on that evidence
alone you can't convict him but you can start building a case around that and I think that's what you have in this case
I do think you have pieces of information that when law enforcement heard they couldn't deny that
information they had to dig in more and then the more they dug in the more that they were finding yeses and yes they
found some NOS along the way but they found more yeses and I think because of the state of the world because of the
heinous nature of this crime I think there's some evidence that this crime could have been ritualistic in nature
that law enforcement had to then keep running with the suspects that they had that they kept getting more yeses than
NOS [Music] all right we are back welcome to my Soap Box cheers to you mates cheers to you
Colonel I you know it's 700 and some episodes and I never asked you to hold my beer can't believe that has never
happened I have consumed that beer and now it's gone I I was when I was in Glasgow uh
last weekend I was trying to explain to people when we first recorded how you would just get up from your chair walk
away from the mic and still talk and grab a beer go to the fridge and get a beer hey once we hit a th000 episodes
that's the format we're going back to my friend we're to go back to that and you
would get so mad you're like hey idiot we we the whole point of the show is we're on microphones and I was always
like look I've already worked like 10 or 11 hours today if I can't get up and get
a beer I'm not doing the show yeah I don't think we should do this anymore I think this is a lot of work and I and I
also assume that they I you know I thought there was like nine people listening so I thought that they would
just bear with me for the uh 3 minutes that it took me to get a beer but you no I think you you hit the nail on the head
with with your statement there leading into the break I also think maybe you you hit a lot of uh did a lot of
collateral damage maybe in that as as well but I no I think I think that you're right you know and then so let's
let's talk about some things looking at this case again I wanted to see if there
was anything that I could find that I didn't come across the first go round that intrigued and peaked my interest so
what I did was I started looking at what was going on in the local media between
the times of the murders them finding the boys and then the arrest when the arrests were finally made so roughly you
have about a one month time period between the murders in between we have somebody arrested for the crimes and
charged with the crimes what I one thing I failed to recognize and know and understand our first go round was that I
thought that this thing just became a media frenzy once the teenagers were arrested and once HBO got involved and
no on the local level very much like Deli and the yogurt shop murders this was a bit of a media
frenzy at least in that region and locally that entire time from the time that it was reported that they were
found in the ditch to the time that there was an arrest and then it continued on after before we get into
that one thing that I did find too you know we we really threw and I I have conflicting feelings about this but I
don't think we were totally wrong we really threw Regina Meeks we really threw officer Regina Meeks under the bus
in our first coverage she's the one that was taking some of the or responding to
some of the missing person's reports that night when the boys were missing she's also the one that goes to the Mr
Bojangles restaurant to take the report of the man who is bleeding or covered in
blood there's different variations of that story has items with blood on them using toilet paper and paper products in
the restroom to clean up blood that he's gone by the time that she arrives at the
Bojangles restaurant but she doesn't bother to go inside she just simply pulls up to the drive-thru talks to the
manager through the drive-through window and then gets another call and then goes
and responds to that call yeah and again this case it drive it can drive you nuts
because you just think for one if she gets that call 15 minutes later she's already in that bathroom collecting the
evidence po possibly possibly and if she was the one to collect the evidence possibly that evidence isn't lost later
that evidence is collected by the store manager and given to a different detective that detective is the one
responsible for losing it but again it's like I mean some people want to say like
cops are all nefarious this guy might have just been a dumbass and he did something he made a
mistake and he might have had no ill intent and for all we know for the last 30 years he has been beating himself up
she going sorry it's a she not the one that received the oh Sor good sorry good yeah so he might be of beaten himself
and he had to take the stand and basically said look I failed as a police officer I failed to Serve and Protect my
community by losing this evidence and there's probably not a day that goes by unless it was a nefarious act that this
guy goes look this is one of the most talked about cases and I guarantee you if we would to have that evidence muddy
bloody individual comes into a restaurant less than a mile away from the murder scene and we test that
evidence and it matches the victims those boys never go to trial the teenage boys never go to trial we never know who
West Memphis 3 are and we're not talking about this case 30 years later well and
the other part of that too is at the very least let's say they collect the blood evidence and it doesn't turn out
to be the victims but it turns out to be the Mr Bojangle guy we could at the very
least identify that individual today correct with the DNA so the the other part of this story though is we talk
about Regina Meeks not going in and we go well if if she wouldn't have got that called maybe we have different better
new information in this case and what we have today but part of that that exchange between her and the Bojangles
employee was the Bojangles employee telling her I collected some of the items that were in the bathroom I had to
clean up some of that because we have customers I can't have a you know mud and blood in my
restaurant but he says I collected some of those items and one of those items being sunglasses and I think there was
at least one other item maybe it was like a a roll of toilet paper that was used to soak up blood part of that
exchange is Regina Meeks telling the employee well you can just discard of those items we don't need those items
and then gets the call and goes off but one thing that I've recently learned to my surprise because I've sat here for 30
years now and gone well if Regina Meeks would have handled that differently and as you just said the officer of the that
responds the following day if he would have not lost the evidence or or take another step back and go what if that
store manager said I think this guy is Muddy and bloody and this is a crime scene and I'm just going to lock the
freaking door until the the police get here you know I can't have a muddy and bloody bathroom no you can't but you do
and so you should just lock the door and and step away put down that bleach bottle and step away from the evidence
and let the officers do what they're supposed to do because again based on that conversation it's like but that's
where the problem with this case is there's so many is you have so many times like this one where it's like well
if this person did something different or this person did something different or if this happened differently then
maybe we'd have a lot more information and that and it's not fair especially when there's multiple multiple people
involved to put the blame or the onus on them yeah and I don't want to put it squarely on one person but I will I will
say this like I believe in my heart that there are many people in this case police
detectives members of the Court attorneys teenagers parents and family members of
the victims I think that there is a is a long list of persons that wish that they had done
things differently or knew the severity understood the severity of the situation
that night and that they would have done things different I I hope that and I I want to believe that with my heart I do
want to say that Regina Meeks takes the missing persons reports of these boys and then responds to Bojangles you would
think not just her but West Memphis PD would have been on high alert then and there right but one other thing that
could have been done very differently was that officer Meek reports that when taking at least one of the missing
person's reports about the boys that when asking the parents and hearing about where they may have last been seen
but also hearing from the parents all the woods over there that the the kids call Robin Hood Park it's actually
referred to as Robin Hood Park in a in in some uh the hes out there Robin Hood Hills that the the boys they like to go
in that area so much so that they've gotten in trouble for going in there and so when you're asking the parents well
where do you think they could be where do you think they took off to because that's what you're responding to you
think that these boys are just not where they should be they're being boys will be boys and they're up to no good you
know they're out misbehaving or where they shouldn't be or where they've been told not to go she goes up to the tree
line to start to walk into the woods to look for the boys and turns around and puts in her report that the mosquitoes
were too bad too strong they were swarming her that they that she she was not going to enter the woods and then we
know that shortly later she's getting these other calls and and she's not the only person that states this throughout
the search for the kids and the other issue with this whole thing is we well several of the parents wouldn't go in
there at first either it wasn't until the night drugg on that they started to go into that area and but that's one of
those things that like I I review that kind of information and it just hurts my brain to go my God had she gone in there
during those calls because we went through the time the timing of those calls right what would she have seen
right would is there a chance she would have seen the Killer is there a chance that she would have seen the bicycles
not yet discarded of like what would have been a witness account of what was going on in there had somebody ENT
especially an officer like I said there's all these moments in this case where you go okay so she goes up to the
tree line but the mosquitoes are rampid so they're like I can't go in there what
would she have seen but so you can fault law enforcement for that on some level but on some level you can go well most
of the time when there's a missing person report they don't start looking for the individual till the next day
this was like calls came in and law enforcement it was a quiet night that night so law enforcement was like hey we
need to look for these boys and there was Patrol officers patrolling the neighborhood and and going around and
like you said responding to the bo jungles call and with a lot of missing person cases we covered it's like one or
two days later till they start looking for the person getting into some of the media stuff because that was something
that I didn't delve into in great detail in our coverage back in 2016 so let's start with the Great John
Walsh the great TV show America's Most Wanted this is one detail that is relatively new to me so the day after
America's Most Wanted they ran a segment on the unsolved murders of these three boys at this point obviously had not
made any arrest so they run a segment that aired now we've seen this when we've covered old cases from the 80s and
'90s and many people know this still even to be true even to this day that locally it's
pretty well known right like all that case that happened down the road or happened the town over it's going to be
on America's Most Wanted this week or on Unsolved Mysteries this week and so I'm
sure that a lot of people were tuning in in this area when that segment ran but one thing that they received I believe
from information I reviewed said that they received about 75 or so tips after that segment re ran but of those 75 or
so tips one that I found to be incredibly ironic let's say is one of the tips comes in and it's three boys
that are calling in the tip these three boys told police that they had become suspicious of a man who tried to lure
them to into his wooded campsite which was not far from the crime scene yes these
three boys were at a bowling alley at the time this is the one that in involves Jesse misskelly he's one of the
three boys phoning in this tip yes so basically these three boys which Jesse Miss Kelly was a part of these three
boys they were heading to the bowling alley I believe to play the arcades or something and this man uh approached
them saying that he had some be you're in some drugs or whatever and come with me and we'll hang out and they're like
no you're a weirdo they started walking away as they walked away there was three
young boys that the the man then approached and then once the older boys saw that they're like well we weren't in
fear of him because he was just a weirdo and we got away but now he's talking to
younger kids so that's why they initially phoned all that in but to be clear my understanding of this tip is
that they're not talking about the night in question when the boys went missing no they're saying that this happened
around about the same time and it just so happens to be that this campsite that they were asked if they wanted to go to
was not far from the crime scene right this happened roughly a week or so after the the crimes were committed and so in
this tip they follow up police follow up on this tip and the result from my understanding Captain is they figured
out who the man was and the man turned out to be the son of a Crittenden County Sheriff's deputy who
was known to have some mental issues so the police determined that the tip was not useful to their investigation now
right whether it's useful to the investigation or not I I don't think there's enough detailed information in
there for us to have a determination if it should have been useful or not I also don't think it's something
they're trying to sweep under the rug what I see here though is this is another attempt yes there's two other
persons involved and phoning in this tip but it's another tip of Jesse misskelly
trying to be involved in this investigation in some form or fashion right because one of the thoughts had
always been that he wanted to talk to police based off of the idea that he wanted to get the reward money that they
were offering a bunch of reward money and so he was willing and open to talking with police and hopes of maybe
getting that reward money I don't know that this tip points toward anything guilty or innocent it's just something
that took place that I was unaware of well not only was this tip called in but the three boys including Miss Kelly went
to the police station mhm and they and they had to tell the police officers what
they saw and initially when they were making this report it had nothing to do with the crimes that happened earlier
and there's actually the the other two boys have discussed this later stating we didn't even mention the murders of
the three boys until after we're at the police station and once they got to the police station they're like hey I wonder
if this has anything to do with those three boys that were missing now let's go out to May 15th
and a statement given by police and I'll keep it short and sweet here to the local media is that there were no
suspects the exact statement in fact is no there are no suspects at this time this is May 15 they also tell the media
that they are still collecting and forwarding information to the FBI Behavioral experts at quanico Virginia
where FBI agents were assembling attempting to put together a profile of the kill killer
killers from my understanding captain and based off of the Callahan website as well I don't think that that profile I
think they received the profile but I don't think it was ever released to the public right now some of my suspicions
are that they formed a list of questions and these list of questions we talked about a ton of the questions on off the
Record here recently but we've talked about some of these other questions on our original coverage as well but I
think it adds it gives a little insight as to what they were thinking the FBI agents anyway in regard to their profile
of the killer or Killers so the questions they were telling the local police to ask were who all lives in your
like you're interviewing somebody or knocking on their door who all lives here in this home what's the
relationship of any of those people that live here and where do they work how many kids do you have do they attend
school if so where and of course they're collecting names and addresses of persons also asking about who their
friends are they were collecting information about the type of vehicles that they would own and reminding local
police the FBI is reminding local police don't don't be lazy about this get a complete description right get color
year make model and tag numbers of all of these vehicles they also encourage them to ask about any visitors that
these persons would have had this is before during and after the boys were killed they had also gone on with
several other questions you know things that where were you that Wednesday night
were you at home but at the at the end of those that list of questions the FBI is
telling West Memphis Police Department ask if they if the person you're you're questioning or anyone they know in the
area is a Vietnam veteran ask if anyone in the area wears camouflage a uniform or any kind of uniform makes it seem
like they were on to something or some one and that's why they would put this as a part of the question I think what
we have here Captain is that that was part of the profile and that's why they're
encouraging the and I think it's like a little telling it shows their hand a little bit ask if if they are a Vietnam
veteran or anyone they know in the area is also ask if anybody wears camouflage or military type uniform of any kind or
a uniform of any kind and that's weird to me because you know years later we would hear the John Douglas assessment
of the crimes in u the cases that haunt us book and we would hear other profiles
performed from persons not as famous or wellknown as is John Douglas but a lot of those included saying things like the
whoever did this was maybe in a position of authority in comparison to the victims and so that to me like position
of authority uniform of any kind uniform implies Authority also the Vietnam stuff
that goes to something we talked about in our original coverage where West Memphis police were working under the
idea that the way that the boys were tied was similar somehow to how persons would have been tied during the Vietnam
war mhm calling around to hospitals looking for IND individuals that were injured especially on their private
areas males that would have been injured showing up to the hospital that night or
the next day with injuries to their private area especially wondering if any person showing up males were coming in
injured that were former Vietnam veterans yeah and I'm glad you bring up John Douglas and I'm going to say this
and I think it might hurt your feelings a little bit but this is one that I when I've
Revisited his thoughts um and his assessment of the West Memphis 3 I just feel like he dropped the ball he he
wanted to the two things in particular where I think he dropped the balls he he was basically saying that these three
indiv indviduals didn't have the criminal history or the history of violence in order to commit a crime like
this and then he also stated that there wasn't the drug use that a history of Dr
drug use that he thinks would have you know had to be involved in order to commit a crime like this yeah and I
don't know why that would hurt my feelings he's he's his own man um well I know you're I'm a fan of his too but
it's sometimes people do a bad job and and and well but it's also tough to say if he did a bad job I think that we
could we could both no we can say he did a bad job because if you look into these
three individuals there's a history of drug use and alcohol use period and then there is there a History of Violence
period yes there is and so I don't know what information he was privy to oh I I I'm sorry I failed to follow you I
thought you were saying in his profile of the likely offender or Enders he he was saying no History of Violence or
drug use which wouldn't make would wouldn't make any sense he was asked like hey look at the three individuals
the West Memphis 3 that were found guilty of this crime and and what do you what do you make of them and he's like
well they they don't have the criminal history or the the drug abuse history and it's like I would like to I don't
know what you're reading I would like to know if he meant that in comparison to his profile of the Killer they don't
have the level of History of Violence or they don't have the level of known drug
use that I would expect to see from the person who committed this yeah so again again it all the profile is also going
to be based on what information you're given and so if you don't have people at the Traer Park telling you well we've
seen Jason Baldwin torture animals we've seen you know Daman eeko kill a dog if you don't have that information or you
don't have his medical history at the time and the violence towards his parents and the fact that he that he was
locked up five times in a mental facility in 1992 the year before the murders if you
don't have that information then obviously you can't make a correct uh assessment so I don't know what he was
privy to and what he wasn't knowing what I know now and what I've been privy to I
can say well I think he he dropped the ball on that I thought one thing while we're on the Douglas topic I thought one
thing that was interesting was that he he had said that he was shocked that he was surprised
that given the result that West Memphis Police Department that they reached out to the FBI so early on in the
investigation but he also says that he was even more surprised learning that they reached out to the FBI because he
says I was in charge of that unit at the time and they never there was no followup with us like they never came
back to us to ask us any more information or to be involved other than like hey could you could you take a look
at this and kind of quickly come up with a a profile of who we should be looking
for now talking about this this is another big part of why I believe that this case was kind of damned to be
flubbed up from the very beginning because right so they reach out to the FBI there's also information that they
reached out to the satanic crimes unit of the New York City Police Department which was formed in the wake of the Son
of Sam murders right they get a very kind of short and simple response saying that look if this if these murders
involved sexual mutilation and were committed under a full moon then these are likely satanic crimes and I think
that the inexperienced West Memphis PD and their inspectors took that to mean well the experts are telling us that if
they were sexually mutilated and remember they're going off the they're looking at the injuries and we get in we
don't need to get into an animal pation or any of that here right today but they're looking at it at the time and
they're going well this is what the experts told us and it looks like there was sexual mutilation so these must be
satanic crimes and so they're they're rolling with that again I think this is where the the
crime is going to be talked about forever because you have three individuals and all three had different
mindsets I mean Jesse Miss Kelly he had two brain cells fighting each other and so to view this crime as this these
three boys set out to do a ritualistic killing I I keep I feel like a broken record by
saying it could be both happening at the same time this if the West Memphis 3 are
guilty of this crime it could have been a ritualistic killing in the mind of Damen
Eckles and the Pawns in this killing Jason Baldwin and Jesse Melly didn't understand the importance of some of the
actions that were taken in the actions of this crime yeah does that make any goddamn sense well no I it it definitely
does that I'm going through some of this uh John Douglas stuff because what's interesting is you
have this satanic crimes unit telling them that it probably is and you have the FBI telling them the opposite that
right that it's not a satanic crime and in case and in fact it's it's an individual that we spoke of several
times on the show recommending his book Ken Lanning who has a conversation with John Douglas saying yeah I spoke with
the prosecutor in the west Memphis 3 case they asked me if it was a satanic crime and told me
that they were pursuing it as satanic murder and Ken Lanning who's the expert on this type of stuff tells the
prosecutor I think you're letting the theory this Theory drive your investigation yeah and I I think that's
a misstep by law enforcement but there's so much arrogance in this case there's arrogance on the prosecution's part I
don't think there was arrogance on the defense team's part but there was definitely
arrogance on the suspects I think you can look back at footage and watch footage of Damen Eckles and go you're on
trial for murder of three 8-year-old boys and you are laughing smiling blowing kisses to people there's
evidence that he was trying to make contact with the victim's parents during the trial he could be totally innocent
of the crime but in in those situations and you just watched the documentary and what's
so fascinating to me is you have a documentary that they had 400 and some hours of footage and in the first
documentary it's like the suspects come off looking strange there's a lot of strange Behavior and the the amount of
giggling if I was on trial even as an 18-year-old and I think we have this lore that that Damen Eckles was this
Outsider and he was he was just smarter than the average person in that area uh really he didn't he didn't even attend
high school you know he was on disability he was on full disability and why was he on full disability because he
stayed to the state that he was homicidal and suicidal and again go back to the the five stance and mental
facilities the year before the crimes but if I'm on trial for three eight-year-old boys I'm not
laughing about nothing and I think I told myself I wasn't going to get upset here I
am you can hand me another beer [Music] [Applause] [Applause] oh

West Memphis 3 /// Discussion

Part 1 of 2

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Join Nic & The Captain in the Garage for a riveting and energy filled discussion about the West Memphis 3 case. This case and True Crime story continues to be one of the more debated cases of the 20th century, even after more than 30 years has passed. Why can’t we as a collective community move on from this case? Is it because the case manages to creep its way back into the headlines, over and over again? Or, is it because at the end of the day we are all afraid that we may never know the truth about what happened in Robin Hood Hills, on May 5th, 1993? We are still seeking justice for Steve Branch, Michael Moore, Christopher Byers, and their families.

Beer of the Week - Meloncholy by the good folks at Tactical Brewing Co.

Garage Grade - 3 and a half bottle cap out of 5

Recommended Reading - A Harvest of Innocence; the untold story of the West Memphis Three murder case by Dan Stidham

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Brief Summary

The episode revisits the West Memphis 3 case, discussing the murders, convictions, and ongoing debates about guilt and innocence.

Key points

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Join hosts Nick and the Captain as they dive into true crime stories.
Exploring the West Memphis 3 Case. A deep dive into the infamous West Memphis 3 case and its complexities.
The Nature of True Crime Stories. Discussing the complexities and doubts surrounding true crime narratives.
Frustration with Case Details. The speaker critiques the lack of substantial evidence in the case files.
Disappointment in Media Coverage. The speaker expresses feeling let down by HBO's portrayal of the case.
Missed Opportunities in Investigation. Reflecting on what could have been discovered if actions were taken differently.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This case always stays on our minds.

Discussion about the West Memphis 3 case

3:35WatchMay 8, 2024

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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