West Memphis 3 /// Discussion /// Part 2 | Forensic Files

[Music] West Memphis 3 West Memphis [Music] 3 Damen Eckles Jason Baldwin Jesse Miss Kelly
West Memphis 3 they were just 8 years old Steven Branch Michael Moore and Christopher
buers found murdered hog tied and naked in a drainage dit in West Memphis West Memphis
3 the state stands behind the conviction a lot of this and we've heard this time
and time again with persons that even offer up a false confession to police that they just there hey there's so much
pressure from these guys for me to say that I did it that eventually I just gave in and said I did it because I
thought well they're going to figure out eventually that I didn't do it even though I said I did right and you wonder
given that the the mindset of an 18-year-old of a 16-year-old and a 17year old like I I wish I was smarter
today I'm definitely smarter today especially in my behavior than I was when I was 16 17 and 18 years old
correct it it's it's not a far stretch for me to believe that maybe all three of them or at least individually that
some of these guys thought well this will all get sorted out at some point at some point they're going to realize I
didn't do this yeah but that there's no excuse for trying to taunt the victim's parents oh no no no I'm not saying I'm
not saying that they should do that but I I'm saying I guess what I'm saying is if they're
innocent I would I don't condone that kind of behavior but I don't know that a lot of these things a lot of these
things don't sway me strongly whether they're innocent or guilty no no and that and that's the problem and and it's
like the turtle thing right like the animal predation with like and they go on like the different sources they go on
to all kinds of different animals and it's very likely that that is animal predation and I'll have somebody that
will be angry with me and go Nick look at the science of course it's animal animal predation the the reason why I
don't dive too deep into that aspect of this crime is if a turtle is respons or some other kind of animal was
responsible for some of the injuries postmortem on these boys that does not tell me who killed them right it correct
it doesn't tell me who killed him other than the only thing that that it is suggestive of is that the confession
that they got that it was a satanic crime and that one would expect them to be sexually mutilated like like that
unit out of New York told the West Memphis PD that it's not a a satanic crime that's the only thing that's s
suggestive of it doesn't tell you who killed these boys yeah but this crime is different because it's not like the Jill
dando case right Jill dando is shot on the front steps of her house and that's it this crime had levels to it there was
some form of sexual assault there was which which again though that's another detail in this case that is persons have
varying opinions of and some of them are very strong opinions well what what I'm
saying is there's levels in the sense of like no I mean the sexual assault the sexual assult aspect of this you if you
lined up 10 so-called experts on this case and asked them if the boys or one or all three were sexually assaulted you
would get a different answer well and I think we would have a better answer if they weren't submerged in water for 15
hours or more more than 15 hours and that but there's levels to this cuz what do we know we know that they were killed
in the woods now you have to question were they LED there were they did did they just happen to go into the woods
and and stumble upon an individual that they shun it or multiple individuals you
can make all these arguments about what markings were done by animals but I believe that there was some markings
done and and law enforcement believes this and a lot of experts believe some of the brutal nature of this crime took
place before they were put into into water and took place by the hands of a human and not animals of course and then
you have they would have had to yeah no doubt then you have the disrobing of of the victims was this done before the
crime started was this done after then you have the way the clothes were placed into the water wrapped around on on
sticks that that took some level of intelligence and then The Binding the fact that they're not bound right to
left they're bound right to right left to left does that mean something some some of the items of clothing missing
from the scene does that mean anything is that suggestive that they were killed elsewhere and then then discarded of
here or does that suggest that the killer took some of these items with them and they were killed near where
they were found yeah and again like I said because I think the knots suggest more than one perpetrator okay
so again is it more of a ritualistic thing for one of the murderer or and less for the other ones I mean I think
these this is such gray area that it's hard for an expert to say definitively that this is some ritualistic killing or
or not I mean this this case just bothers the [ __ ] out of me well and I'm glad I I shouldn't say that I'm glad
that it does but I think that makes you a very normal human being like I don't know that I don't know how anybody could
not be bothered by this case and I think it's just I mean again that there's there's
arrogance throughout this case I mean people that think that they're 100% innocent sometimes they stand on this
hill of arrogance and just knocking off have a a little bit of an open mind that
you you possibly are wrong and it's so frustrating now because with the court stating that Daman eckol canest evidence
which is really strange because if you go back to the Alfred plead the Alfred plead basically states that you're going
to leave this case alone you admitted that the prosecution had enough evidence to convict you of this crime you get to
maintain your innocence but after that you have to leave this alone this case drives me insane because everybody can
sit there and say Well they're innocent and proof that they're innocent is now Daman Eckles is trying to fight the
court to test new items they're not new items and and I would I would say it would be some form of
evidence that he's innocent if Daman Eckles was arguing test whatever you want to and do it on your dime because
that's the other thing that people don't understand in this case they want to do
it Damen eeko and his team want to do it on their dime and therefore they're the
ones that get the results so then they're the one ones that get to relay the results to the public and to the
courts and that's what happened back in I think it was 2011 and we talked about this on the off the record and then I'll
jump off my soap box but one of the things that we were arguing on off the Record was you were stating that Damen
Eckles could have been killed by the state and so instead of waiting a few months because he was going to get
another trial that's actually not true and there's multiple reason reasons why that's not true and there's multiple
reasons why Damen Eckles and his team knew it wasn't true because one in 2000 I believe it was
2006 Arkansas stopped all executions and their their process of executing prisoners was under review they didn't
cross their tees and Dot their eyes until like 2017 so during the time that he was
trying to get out and was offering up an Alfred plea to the state there was no chance that this the state
would have killed him because they weren't killing anybody because the whole process was under review and then
on top of that his appeals and when you have things in the court system they don't kill you when you have you know
appeals and processes going on in the court so this whole narrative that they spun of well I had to take this plea
deal because they're going to try to kill him it's just a false narrative all the way around well
okay so I'll I will have a rebuttal here because you're saying something that I said was
untrue no I'm saying it was untrue by Damen eckel's team and by the West Memphis 3 team they were making this
argument that well we would have liked to keep fighting in court because their whole thing was we got enough evidence
that proves that it was one of the stepfathers and we're going to prove that to you in a couple months but
instead of waiting to try to prove that they end up taking this plea deal and the the excuse that they gave the public
and the excuse that they gave their supporters where well Damian was you could have been killed by the state I
mean his original execution date was set for 2000 so he that has already you know
he was already beyond that date which complicates things for the person that's sitting on death row when you're past
that date yeah but again you would know if you're on death row and you know that
in 2006 that they suspended all executions and that it was under review you would and it was under review at the
time that you took this plea deal you can't sit there and use that as an excuse because and his appeals weren't
exhausted yet but what I don't understand what the point is what does that mean what does any of that mean
like the well I think it's kind of there's two yeah but listen there's two kinds of people that want to get out of
prison innocent people and guilty people okay so I don't know that that proves anything either to either way to me no I
just think it's a situation that people have to understand in this case is that the way whether you think they're
innocent or whether you think they're guilty the way people spin things and again don't don't you believe that the
way their teams spun this web was he's in grave danger of dying in prison so we have to take this deal but if they were
so sure that this evidence was going to point to the actual murderer why would you pack your tents up and go home well
it was it was 13 months away I believe I don't I don't believe it was that long but again I think the problem is I mean
we both know from plenty of experience that the wheels of Justice they move but they move very slowly very slowly right
and these again they had already spent 18 years in prison and I I mean that's that's where I leave that portion of the
case to me like that we and I don't mean our discussion I love the for the sake of discussion it's a good discussion but
for me internally when I think and review this case at who may have done it and I'm glad you're angry you should be
angry because the way that I see it this case is yes it's been adjudicated but it's an unsolved case and we I believe
that we sit here over 30 years later not knowing who the real killer or killers of these these little boys little tiny
boys is and that angers me as well so I like the heat of discussion but for me internally I'm always left this as there
are two kinds of people that want to be out of prison and those persons are both
innocent and guilty people all every everybody wants to be out of prison this was the I'll spin it a different way
because maybe that's what echo's camp was saying but one thing I do know about this Alfred plea it was an All or
Nothing deal it was all three of you except or you're not getting the deal and so when you look at it from Miss
Kelly's situation and you look at it from Baldwin's situation even if let's say one of them didn't
want to go along with it like so Jason Baldwin's the best example right because he by accepting this Alfred plea he has
the least out of the three to gain and the most to lose yet he accepts it and a large part of that was well these two
other guys they already accepted it and I I don't want to be the one that stops this from ha the one of the three that
stops this from happening no I just again I stated earlier that I felt let down by some of the individuals that
have covered this case the more I dive into this case the more I'm let down by the people that are presenting the
information um I'm let down by this the criminal justice system and I I'm I'm also let down and maybe it's wrong but I
feel like I'm let down by the West Memphis 3 because they're also the ones that said hey let us out cuz we'll we'll
fight and we'll we'll figure this out and some people could say well dummy that's what Damen Eckles is trying to do
and I my response to them would be like dummy that's not what's happening yeah but Damen Eckles and Jason Baldwin and
Jesse mkelly they don't solve crimes they don't you know what I mean like that's the same sad conversation that I
have to have sometimes with family members of victims for porch light or even for True Crime
garage this they'll contact me a month or two later and go what's going on with you know I was really hoping that that
porch light would would solve this and I was really hoping that true crime garage
would light a fire under the detective's asses and they would they would really get to work on this case and the sad
conversation that I have to have with that grieving mother of the victim uh who's
crying on the other end of the phone or that I'm holding their hand across the table as they SOB the sad part of that
conversation is I have to tell them porch light as good and as much as we try we we don't solve crimes True Crime
garage we do not solve crimes the only the only persons with the power to absolutely solve the crime and make an
arrest are law enforcement no I understand that but you're also not calling these people up and telling them
that you're going to solve the crime you're not calling these people up and saying hey if you do XY and Z for me
this wait cuz I'm going right but it does again but it wouldn't matter if I said that or not it's it's not case at
the end of the day and as far as the echo situation goes with the the person that I don't think that has let you down
is Judge laser who has been the one who has decided that yes we will allow testing yeah the state the state will
allow Eckles in his Camp to test this evidence now the reason why it has to be paid for on the private end is because
again something we've said a dozen times today as far as the state of Arkansas is
concerned this the case is adjudicated they're not going to pay to test anything yeah so judge laser has made
the determination that Eckles in his Camp can pay for it the reason being is that like I can't walk in there to any
judge in Arkansas and say you know what I'm I represent the porch light project I represent True Crime garage we're here
to set the record straight we just want to help these poor people we have raised
all this money through our beer fund and through donations of our are very loyal
and awesome listeners that we we can afford to test this evidence judge would you allow me to test it no the law says
that only a person that has been accused of the crime can be can be involved in the defense right and essentially it's
also the state is saying that you can only test it that what they were originally saying is Well if you were in
jail and you were found guilty and you're in jail we'll let you test it and Damen Eckles I applaud him for saying
hey look you found me guilty of this crime I should still have the right to test this this evidence if it could
point to my innocence and so that is the fight that he's putting on my argument to him would be why not test everything
and we have a pair of pants that we think that there's some semen possible semen on the pants why aren't though
that should be the number one thing that people are screaming at the top of the the mountains to test because that could
actually get us some answers if if you have a victim that has a possible semen stain on their pants we we should test
that they're they want to test ligatures and things that have already been tested
and have already resulted in no result in saying well maybe we'll get a different result if we test it a
different way and maybe they will but I still don't think that's going to solve anything because if you you have so much
you got contaminated at the crime scene you have contamination they they thought
this evidence was lost and we're going to believe that this evidence was not contaminated in any way I don't even go
down that road because then then the next step to that is going well don't even test it right like I'm with you I
there I have suspicions that the evidence is probably contaminated yeah but I but I also wouldn't go well don't
test it right you know and and so do do I have high hopes for this new developing story new developing angle of
this long ongoing 31y old story no I don't have high hopes for it but you know and I get what you're saying that
from the echo angle it looks like they took the easy cheap way out and I'm not going to lie to you I I would love it
would it would be it would do me some favors internally if they would have rode the storm out and they got to the
hearing to present this other evidence new evidence whatever you want to call it
that if they would have if they would have rode the storm out whether it was two months three months 13 months or
what what have you it would be better for Nick Edwards of True Crime garage if they did that yeah but again and and I'm
not trying to use the walk a mile in their shoes excuse because I don't think it's an excuse I think that I don't I
can't have a great opinion on them taking the easy way out but I say this the state of Arkansas also took the easy
way out that's the whole reason for the Alfred plea the whole reason for this Alfred plea is to go well we probably
got this wrong there's could be some new evidence come to light that suggest that
these guys are innocent let's cut our losses now and let them out before we have to compensate all three of them for
spending over 18 years of their lives in prison well and it's it goes even deeper
than that it's the judge uh if the if they would have waited a year it probably would have been a different
judge and that judge would have never allowed the aler plead period and maybe they knew that and then people make an
argument that the judge only allowed this Alfred plead because they were going to be reelected or or needed the
publicity or or or whatever it is but I that's I think that's my frustration in this this case particularly is the
amount of lying uh from both sides law enforcement the defense the you know these three
individuals that were convicted of the crime the amount of lying that they've done and it just goes back to that we
have three victims that aren't going to get Justice and their families are not going to get Justice it it drives me
absolutely insane it was Judge Bernett that kept a strangle hold on this case for so many years and it was only until
he released and relinquished that power in that authority over this case that they were able to start having these
much more civilized talks of right coming to some kind of result I hate to harp on this but they stated we have all
this DNA evidence and we can prove their innocence and we can we have a suspect and now however many years later what 13
years later they're saying well we don't think it's that guy we think it's a different person now so the things that
they that you know this narrative that these these these poor little T these poor little teenage boys were just
thrown under the bus and railroaded I just don't think that's true that's not a true Narrative of the story I think
that's the narrative that people want to present and that's just not true that doesn't mean that they are guilty of
these murders but they I think that's open to interpretation I think that that many people are going to have vary
opinions on that part of the case because you have somebody like me who I do think that they were in fact
railroaded I sit here and I go well if Vicky Hutchinson would not have lied to police are these guys firmly on the
radar in the way that they they ended up being I I also wonder had they not had they not practically drugged this
confession out of out of a a 17-year-old boy with a with a argumentatively s 2 IQ
right this bad confession out of this kid that uh would they have even made these arrests I I I it's like it's like
this domino effect of one bad thing happening after another that leads to a conviction of three different
individuals and and remember we talked about this when we covered it the first time if if Jesse Miss Kelly's confession
gets completely tossed out do they do you convict eckol and bald and then on top of that had Baldwin's attorney been
smart enough and made the Right Moves those two wouldn't have been in the courtroom at the same time altogether
and if I'm Baldwin's attorney I'm doing everything that I possibly can to get his trial to go before Eckles because
it's kind of like a tagalong Sit situation like oh if Eckles is guilty then Baldwin has to be guilty based off
of the confession and that they're best friends and that they're on trial together like it it the it gets very
complicated very quickly yeah but again the narrative is that the police interrogated this kid
and got a confession and that's part of the story but what about the other four confessions that weren't interrogated
and people that think that these police officers just went down this path with blinders on every time that boy wanted
to confess they were there asking questions recording it and trying to get to the bottom of what really happened
that day but the flip of that would be every time he's offered a deal to testify against Baldwin and eckol he
does not he turns it down you see what I mean like I I get I I get what you're saying and I get like the other
confessions trouble me too I I for them to be innocent and me to believe that 100% I would it would be so much easier
if he never had all these other confessions that being Melly but it it's again when when
offered the deal and this happened on at least two occasions he's offered a deal
to testify against them to for a reduced sentence right and so to me it's like well when it mattered the
most he he wasn't willing to do it [Music] [Music] and people that think they're guilty
will always point to the fact that they pled guilty essentially to get out of prison and I'd argue that I don't think
that's again innocent people want out of prison just as bad as guilty people want
out of prison so I think your point is very valid on that one of the problems I have one of the the reasons why this is
a red light case is because we don't have just one confession by Jesse Miss Kelly we have five but we have
confessions depending on if you want to believe them or not we have Confessions by all three suspects I don't think the
okay Jesse mkelly didn't confess I don't think that was the nail in the coffin and I don't know if you were able to
ever review uh the notes that the jury made and they would make a list of pros and cons one of the number one things
that they thought pointed to the guilt of Damen Eckles and Jason Baldwin was the confession of Michael Carson which
which he later recanted yeah and that's again every little Point whether you think they're innocent or guilty you can
start arguing these points like people that think that they're innocent say well well Michael Carson that's a
[ __ ] confession because he's a jailhouse snitch and I always thought he was a jail house snitch so I was like
wait well this confession is [ __ ] right he's he he had something to gain from this okay then you dive down the
rabbit hole let's look into Michael Carson and you go okay Michael Carson was not in prison at the time that he
went to police he did not get any deal from law enforcement he was actually out of prison sitting there watching on the
news them talking about the West Memphis 3 and he told his dad hey I was in prison with Jason Baldwin and he told me
what happened and he told his father the details and his father said we got to go
to law enforcement and he said I I don't want to and he goes no we need to go and
then they took a polygraph test and again you're going to have arguments on whether a polygraph test were good or
bad but he passed the polygraph test and so they put him on the stand and then people can sit there and dissect his his
movements and whether he's nervous or not and then there's the argument later that if you think they're innocent you
go well Michael Carson recanted his statements from everything I've read he has apologized to Jason Baldwin and his
excuse was hey I was on a lot of drugs back then but nowhere have I heard him say the statements that he made at court
weren't true and again but those there's a million points of this case and that's
why I just hate it so much like I I I dive into this case so much and I have to remind myself this is not the case
we're working on for next week but it's those three boys Christopher buers Michael Moore Stevie branch and it's
just like and I know there's going to be a bunch of people that are listening right now that go wow the captain thinks
they're guilty no I don't know I wish I knew I wish I could stand on a hill of arrogance and ignorance and just tell
you I think they're guilty or I think they're Innocent but I can't and and I and I'm bothered by dami Eckles I think
he has this idea that he can manipulate people and lie and I think he lied on the stand I think there's evidence of
that in the documentaries I think he constantly lies to people to get attention I think that's who he is I
think he wants to be larger than life I think we made him Larger than Life and I
think he's a liar I don't know if he murdered these boys or not though and I'd love to get to the bottom of it the
way that the testing could get to the bottom of it is I again I preface this by saying like I said earlier and like I
said on off the record I don't have High Hopes I'm usually a glass half full kind
of guy I'm not incredibly optimistic about this new developing portion of this ongoing story but where it could
let's I I'll be glass half full for a while okay I'll try to I'll examine it from a different angle there are to this
day 31 years later and in fact actually some of this information is older than that there are other unsolved child
murders in that area that if if this evidence were to align with any evidence in any of those cases well that would be
pretty powerful right or if it was an individual that wasn't supposed to be there at that time and it wasn't one of
these three boys or wasn't one of the stepparents Christina Marie Pipkin was last SE May 4th and and notice
notice some of the dates on this stuff May 4th 1991 in Hickory Ridge she was 9 years
old she disappeared while selling jewelry door Todo for a school fundraiser her body was found five days
later in a ditch five miles outside of town she had apparently drowned and police say she drowned her death as the
result of Foul Play May 21st 199 2 Geneva Smith age 13 reported missing she left home to catch a school bus and was
never seen alive again June 1st 1992 her badly decomposed body was found in the St Francis River the body was in such
poor condition that a cause of death cannot be determined it's being investigated as a homicide and has been
since June of 1992 October of 1992 jardina Jones cross goes missing on the 13th her body's
found the next day she was a 10th grader in high school she died from three puncture wounds in lacerations to the
face and neck these These are leading up to the arrest of Jesse mkelly Damen Eckles and Jason Baldwin they had six
mysterious unsolved child murders in this immediate area going on at the time now these These are four different
counties but they they are all neighboring count they're all connected and so if the if the evidence comes back
and says something to suggest that one of these other crimes is tied to the murder of these three boys that could be
something powerful the other thing too and this this is a bit of a even more of a leap I want to be clear that that it
would be a leap right if that were to be the case but trying to be glass half full here a little bit we talk about
problems with this case go back to Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left West Memphis
together for Oceanside California on May 10th so 4 days after the bodies of the boys were discovered right they're
picked up May 17th they take a polygraph examination administered by the California police so a a whole different
entity a whole different law enforcement agency are administering this this polygraph exam and of I don't want
anybody getting confused out there we have pointed out time and time again the problem the pros and cons with the
polygraph exams so don't think that we're living dying and breathing that these are that polygraph exams are the
end all be all of homicide investigations they're not a barometer but but the reason why I'm bringing up
the polygraph examination of these two boys who were picked up in California who just so happen to be leave West
Memphis four days after the bodies are discovered is that according to the California police they tell the West
Memphis PD look these guys we gave them a test and they showed signs of deception when they denied involvement
in the murders of those three boys now the flip of that is they give West Memphis PD gives Jesse Miss Kelly a
polygraph examination he shows signs of deception in their opinion and their response to that is he's lying his ass
off let's Grill him until he confesses meanwhile they don't bother to make a second phone call about Christopher
Morgan or Brian Holland out in California it's it's so weird that you have those two well I thought those were
the boys that they eventually got to confess out in California and then that wasn't allowed in the trial they weren't
allowed to hear that confession exactly it was it was barred they were not allowed to use that evidence at trial
because of course the defense is going to put that up if if they're worth their weight yeah and I I don't know if you
will allow me just to just to wrap up my thoughts on this 5 minutes less than 5 minutes I think this case is
so difficult but I think if you're only watching Paradise Lost if you're only reading and watching certain things that
that point to the fact that they're innocent you're not doing your due diligence I think there's individuals
like William Ramsay Roberta glass Burn After Reading Gary me and Lisa O'Brien that have made some very valid points
and some of these individuals I believe are experts on this this case if my knowledge of this case is a two out of a
10 or three out of a 10 some of these individuals have uh a lot more extensive knowledge of this case and I think if
you're on the fence or if you think they're innocent or guilty I I think these or individuals worth looking into
some of their thoughts and some of the evidence that they have presented to the public again the the genes with possible
seamen stains on them that needs to be tested I don't know if Damen Eckles is responsible for this crime or not but I
know that individual named Alistair Crowley was brought up at his trial and Alistair Crowley in my opinion is a
horrible pile of [ __ ] he also talks in his book magic about the sacrificing of
a child and how that would bring you power of a God and the the best age to kill a child is it would be a male child
at the age of eight at the trial Daman Eckles claims that he knows nothing about him and even though he's writing
his name down on pieces of paper and and and has has no clue about him well just
a year ago on a podcast Dam eel said two individuals that he's never met that have really influenced his life or were
mentors to him were alist Crowley and Joel Olstein my problem with comments like
this and also if you watch a lot of Daman eckl's interviews my big issue with him is okay even if you're innocent
of the crime where's the sympathy where's the empathy for the victims I understand that if you're innocent of
these crimes that you're also a victim but you got lucky you got people that believed in you you had millions of
people that came and donated money to try to fight your case you had celebrities come out of the woodwor
works and when he is interviewed he doesn't State the victim's names the true victim's names Christopher Byers
Michael Moore and Stevie Branch those boys were eight years old they lost everything you lost some years maybe you
lost rose petal glasses that you could look at the world through you lost something too if you're Innocent but why
don't we ever speak of their names why why don't we ever show empathy for their families
and and also it's okay to say hey I was a [ __ ] kid and I just thought they're going to end up get in the right
guy one day and and those actions of my past I I I feel bad for and I need to make amends for because the taunting of
the family that's just not acceptable or the laughing about the these crimes I understand you're 18 years old and
you're naive and you're underdeveloped and undereducated but I just can't get past some of that
stuff I just think and and then to know that this individual that okay if you're
innocent of the crime then alist Crowley has nothing to do with these murders but
you know if you're this if he's one of your mentors you know that he has made the statement that killing an
eight-year-old boy brings you power you just keep that stuff out of your out out
of your [ __ ] mouth because it's disrespectful and you know the boys were killed on the
full moon and so then you have a whole chapter in your book about the power of moon water I just think it's stuff like
that where it's like I don't know there's people that think they're guilty that says Damen Eckles is just taunting
everybody and I don't know if he is or isn't but it's like that's that's why my opinion of him is not highly because I
if he's innocent he's a victim as well like you said maybe I should walk a mile in his shoes and maybe I'd feel
differently but I think if I was wrongfully convicted of these crimes I would not only try to tell my story but
try to tell the victim victim stories as well like I said earlier I'm not going to fault anybody for being angry or
frustrated in this case this is a case if you don't get angered or frustrated one way or another or every which way
which I think you and I are frustrated every which way then I don't think you have a pulse about this case right and
so I again I'll I'll be glass half full and say that I hope that this evidence does do something and at the very least
May or or even more so not just in this case but some of the other cases that we've just mentioned I hate to see other
child victim cases still to this day being unsolved and we're talking about cases that 91 '92 and ' 93 and it's it's
you know their parents are are passing away without getting any answers or any real answers in the west Memphis 3 case
in my opinion and then but I I I will go a different route and say that the major
issue I have with this case is the West Memphis Police Department's handling of this case I I have seen agencies across
the years that we've covered so many cases over 700 episodes and I've seen a case handled every which
way possible I've seen I've seen agencies do a a job that I think is absolutely brilliant in some very
difficult cases and I've seen other agencies that have done a horrible lazy dumbass job and I sit here and of course
look I'm not trying to be on my high horse here but I sit here all these years later and several hundred miles
away and I review this case and I I cannot for a second get over the piss poor job that I think that the West
Memphis Police Department did in this case and like I said earlier in our conversation here today Captain is I
think this thing was flubbed up from the very beginning I think that they screwed
it up I I I do like that they called the FBI we know that they called the FBI based off of a conversation between John
Douglas and and Ken Lanning by the way I know we'll be we'll have a different recommendation for this week for the
reading but remember back in the day we recommended Ken lanning's book love bombs and molesters he's an absolute
expert in his field I recommend that book uh every which way to Sunday I appreciate that they called New York
City where they dropped the ball was they should have got a larger agency with better and more resources than they
possessed at the time to take over this case this would be like Deli Indiana it would have been like if the deli the
local Deli police would have said we're going to head up this investigation we don't want the sheriff's department
involved we don't want the state police involved we don't want the FBI involved and Mara Leverett points out in the
devil's not and she doesn't she doesn't accuse them of this it's a little implied that her opinion may be because
they were under suspicion of not doing things on the up and up in West Memphis that that's why that they refus to call
in a larger bigger better agency that may have done a better job you know there's there's certainly suspicion of
them confiscating evidence in other cases we're talking about guns money and drugs and then turning around and
selling them or Distributing them amongst their personnel yeah and that was the suspicion at the time and that's
why it was believed back in 1993 that they would not allow another agency in here and I think just the the quick
comparison of the Christopher Morgan Brian Holland situation in comparison to the Jesse mkelly
situation it would make anybody go wait a second this this was the same scenario
and you treated both of them completely different ways well the reason why it's not the same scenario not to nitpick but
Jesse Miss Kelly came to you you came you went and well great great sorry you didn't you know I'm glad you didn't have
to jump in your car and do act do any real work like I mean come on like you're being your whole outfit is being
paid by taxpayers to solve this case and to to see that they they treated one guy
who the test said was lying completely different to how they treated another guy or two where the same test told them
that they were lying is something that I'll never be able to get over and then then then take it a step further local
newspaper this was actually local to Memphis Tennessee the commercial appeal is the big newspaper in this region
after Miss Kelly is arrested they print his confession in the newspaper yeah on June 7th June 7th
1993 a kid who's 17 years old with no parental no no parent in the room no lawyer in the room confesses to a crime
like I don't even I don't even need to argue the IQ of this guy he's 17 years old he's got nobody no representation he
gives a confession that they know is not true because the first confession says that he that he saw the boys killed
around noon and his confession clearly states that the three victims and Jason Baldwin All skipped school that day
that's how this all went down at noon no we have the attendance records of all four of those students from two
different schools saying those four students were in school at noon and a CO we know that there were several 30
eyewitnesses that see these boys after school at 5 5:30 5:45 up to 630 p.m. right and and they print they the police
there is no way that the Commercial Appeal gets this confession without getting it from the West Memphis Police
Department I what what the hell how if this is your if this is your this is your Bible if you are going to convict
the these three you've arrested these three if you're going to convict them this is your Bible right and we know
that based off of there's not a whole lot of great stuff as far as coverage goes about the case and the facts of the
case in Paradise Lost all three of those documentaries if you would if you want to call it that I I like to refer to it
more as they're chronicling what happened if they were to shoot those documentaries today it would be filled
with all kinds of information we've seen you know we've seen how documentaries in
in true handled today a eight part series A 10p Part series those were very well
if you know again there's varying opinions out there but in my opinion had they got it right there there would be
no reason to have more than one documentary in this situation but there is no way that the Commercial Appeal
gets their hands on this confession to print in the June 7th newspaper June 7th 1993 newspaper without getting it from
local law enforcement and then guess what you've just done you've tainted your jury pole throughout the entire
region no of that area this newspaper goes out to all every County that one can think of you can get your hands on
it and it there it's in three different parts three different segments throughout that day's newspaper where
you are reading the details of his confession that all by the way include things like them eating dogs all kinds
of other things that we know in fact were not true and what did the Commercial Appeal do they they
copyrighted that that article newspapers don't do that you know what that's suggestive to me when you copyright that
article in a story and information that you clearly could have only received from the police department that tells me
you paid for it somebody somebody got handed an envelope of money and somebody handed off an envelope with a confession
in it and it got printed in the paper for everybody and their cousin to read and then you went to all those people
and you said you know what let's find 12 members 12 peers of this individual and let them sit and decide
the fate of this kid not and not just that kid but two other individuals as well
two others later and so it's uh maybe on another off the Record we'll go through
some of those other other newspaper articles but it's it's a troubling case and I think unfortunately for the rest
of our days Captain it's always going to remain a troubling case but at the end of the day this world let down and and
continues to let down Christopher buers Michael Moore and Stevie branch and I'm sorry for that and I hope that one day
the world will make it right we can never bring them back but maybe we can at least get them Justice in the end and
until we do that we we have all failed [Music] them want to thank everybody for joining
us here in the garage if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs make sure you become a patreon on patreon or
subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this
week we are very happy to be recommending a harvest of Innocence the untold story of the West Memphis 3
murder case by Dan stum and Tom McCarthy this is attorney Dan stam's now an honorable Judge Dan stum down in
Arkansas this is Mr stm's story regarding his involvement in the west Memphis 3 murder case attorney Dan sidam
breaks his self-imposed 30-year silence to expose details only he knows about the infamous
West Memphis 3 murders exposing what happened will allow him to close the door on a case that has
tormented him for years the West Memphis 3 murder case which captured the world's
attention in the 1990s to such an extent that it remains one of the most discussed true crime stories even today
now regardless if you believe that the West Memphis 3 are guilty or innocent or especially if you cannot make up your
mind this is a must read in my humble gar opinion maybe it's just my fascination with this case but I could
not put this book down and anytime that I am reading something about any of the persons involved in this case I'm always
taking notes so if it's new or expanded information to me I make a note I made 97 notes while reading Dan stam's book
The Harvest of Innocence you can find that great title and many more recommendations on our truecrime
garage.com recommended page until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music]
[Applause]

West Memphis 3 /// Discussion

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

Join Nic & The Captain in the Garage for a riveting and energy filled discussion about the West Memphis 3 case. This case and True Crime story continues to be one of the more debated cases of the 20th century, even after more than 30 years has passed. Why can’t we as a collective community move on from this case? Is it because the case manages to creep its way back into the headlines, over and over again? Or, is it because at the end of the day we are all afraid that we may never know the truth about what happened in Robin Hood Hills, on May 5th, 1993? We are still seeking justice for Steve Branch, Michael Moore, Christopher Byers, and their families.

Beer of the Week - Meloncholy by the good folks at Tactical Brewing Co.

Garage Grade - 3 and a half bottle cap out of 5

Recommended Reading - A Harvest of Innocence; the untold story of the West Memphis Three murder case by Dan Stidham

Follow True Crime Garage on X @TrueCrimeGarage / Follow Nic on X @TCGNIC / Follow The Captain on X @TCGCaptain

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Brief Summary

The episode analyzes the West Memphis 3 case, focusing on confessions, law enforcement failures, and the quest for justice for the victims.

Key points

The West Memphis Murders. Three boys were found murdered in West Memphis, sparking a controversial investigation.
False Confessions. Pressure from police can lead to false confessions, complicating the case.
The Alfred Plea. Damien Echols took an Alfred plea, maintaining innocence while admitting prosecution's evidence was sufficient.
The Confession Dilemma. Confessions from multiple suspects complicate the narrative of guilt or innocence.
The Police's Handling of the Case. Criticism of the West Memphis Police Department's investigation raises questions about their methods.
The Troubling Case of the West Memphis 3. A deep dive into the injustices faced by the West Memphis 3 and the flawed confession that led to their conviction.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This case just bothers the [ __ ] out of me.

Expressing frustration over the unresolved case.

5:44WatchMay 8, 2024

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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