Trail of Blood /// Part 2 /// 417 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
crime foreign [Music] criticism before we get going too far along because what has been the biggest part of this
case that has been criticized is that the Somerville Police Department that they locked on to Eddie O'Brien too
early in their investigation as their number one suspect and not only did they not only did he become a suspect too
quickly for some people's liking but they locked in on him and failed to look elsewhere I'm gonna give my own
criticism I agree with the the part of locking on to Edward O'Brien what I don't agree with is the criticism that
they that he became a suspect too quickly they had evidence that suggests he should be a suspect in this case he
had stab wounds or or defensive wounds or however you want to look at those cuts by a knife we have a woman murdered
by a knife we have an individual that has cuts by a knife that they call 9-1-1 and he is I think you said half a mile
away from the scene of the crime yeah you have a you have his fingerprint a bloody in blood in wet blood at the
crime scene you have what cannot be ruled out as the victim's blood on his shin so there is evidence linking him to the
crime scene then we have the issue of two weeks after his arrest he says yes I was at the crime scene right and here's
what really happened but before we get too far along Captain what I want to mention is
is the fact that they locked in on him and then they failed to recognize the possibility of well do we have anybody
else that could have done this I think they were overtaken and blinded by what little evidence they had at the time
where I want to go with this is there's two other people that could be considered a suspect and I say to other
people because really we know and I think you will agree with me that regardless of this time stamp where some
sources say she was killed between 8 pm and 10 p.m right that cannot be it just cannot be okay maybe she was killed
between 8 and 9 15 but that's as long as you can take this timeline out why because either one of two stories is
correct either Eddie O'Brien killed her and then fled the scene remember he's he's said to have been
seen by eyewitnesses leaving the area at 9 20 P.M or he didn't kill her and his story is
correct that he showed up went into the house and she was already dead when he got there around 9 15. so whatever
happened to Janet Downing whoever murdered her murdered her either Eddie did it when he got to the house or she
was already dead when he got there that leaves us with two other potential suspects in my mind yes there could have
been a whole heck of a lot of people that could have done this but I say two for this reason one we have Paul Downing
who by his own admission was in the home from approximately 8 15 to 8 30ish we know Janet Downing was alive at eight
o'clock when the group of boys left her house but even with all of this evidence
against Eddie is it possible that we have a different suspect maybe even a better suspect right I'm going to bring
up a guy named Artie Ortiz Artie Ortiz is Janet downing's brother-in-law he is married to her sister
he was kicked out of the house he and his wife lived with the downings for over a year
they were kicked out of the home in March of 1995. Janet Downing would tell friends that
she kicked them out of her home because she believed that Artie Ortiz was dealing selling drugs out of her house
right okay we need to talk about a woman named Gina Mahoney Gina Mahoney is arguably one of
Janet downing's best friends leading up to her murder Janet Downing and Gina Mahoney spoke
several times at length the day of her murder Gina Mahoney says that on several occasions she saw Artie Ortiz's cab he
was a cab driver she saw his cab parked outside of the house the Downing house after he was
kicked out of the home when nobody was home when the kids weren't home when Janet was home one didn't also neighbors
say that they saw his vehicle there from time to time after the time period of him being kicked out yes the other thing
that's interesting is the reason why this is very important to Gina Mahoney is because she's had conversations with
Janet Downing where Janet has told her Artie Ortiz still has keys to my home and refuses to give him back and refuses
to give them back and that's where Gina Mahoney's saying well not only does he have those keys I've seen his vehicle
parked near your home when I know nobody is home now she's not saying I know he was going in your house or I know he was
doing anything weird she's just saying when you were not home and when the kids were not home I've seen on several
occasions his cab parked by your house that same day Janet Downing tells Gina Mahoney that
she is afraid of Artie Ortiz and that she that he has been harassing her since he she kicked him out of the house
all right now that's suspicious that's hearsay whatever yeah but we also don't have anybody
and her life saying that she was fearful of this gentle giant that lived across the street yeah a little more background
on that on Eddie O'Brien his parents lived on Boston Street his entire life Janet Downing knew Eddie O'Brien his
entire life she had lived there since the the late 70s and you're right nobody ever said that Janet Downing told them
that she was afraid of this 15 year old boy he was over at the house all the time it was his best friend's house so
more importantly than this hearsay bit is this story Gina Mahoney says that on the night of Janet
downing's Murder She Was Out on her front porch she's watching what is going on over at
her friend's house Janet downings this is the the the police lights the ambulance sirens this is all big
commotion she's out on her front porch now wondering what happened at her friend's house wondering if her friend
is okay and she's watching it from her front porch she says that at 10 pm she sees Artie Ortiz walking his hair is
wet and freshly combed Artie then engages in conversation with Gina he says that he is there because his
dispatcher told him that his sister-in-law Janet Downing has been murdered Gina finds this immediately very
off-putting finds it to be very strange considering that the EMTs and the police are still at the Downing
house Janet's still in the house right nobody really knows what's going on at this point but he's saying that
his dispatcher knows what's going on and told him that Janet Downing had been murdered a little fishy right
it's a little fishy I I don't know a little fishy you know I don't know if if the dispatcher would be you know
listening to police scanner or if or if that could explain it but it gets a little more interesting than that
because at the same time that she's talking with Artie Ortiz she says that she spots his green taxi
cab his cab is parked on Hamlet Street this is this is the street that runs up the
side of the along the side of the Downing house that his cab is parked on Hamlet Street
and it's facing the wrong way his vehicle according to Gina is parked on the same side of Hamlet Street as the
Downing home but his cab is facing Highland Avenue it should be facing the other direction
which is Boston Street Gina says that Ortiz's cab is blocked in this is 10 o'clock they're
having their conversation she sees his cab it's blocked in by a fire truck a police vehicle and an ambulance
well what would that tell us either or Jesus vehicle dropped out of the sky and fell to that spot
or he was parked there before emergency Personnel arrived responding to the scene
then here is something very bizarre Artie Ortiz during his conversation with Gina
he discovers he can't find his keys in any of his pockets he tells Gina he can't find his keys
he leaves Gina's front yard and runs over to his cab where she says she can see him crawling around inside the
vehicle and very obviously looking for his keys after several minutes he gets out of the cab and steps foot onto the
Downing property which of course is a crime scene by now so of course he is stopped by an officer
he asked the officer if he could be allowed to go into the backyard and search for his keys why would his keys
be there oh what oh how how astute of you two contemplate that good job caddy fishy
the officer told Ortiz that this would not be possible this is a crime scene so then Ortiz goes back to Gina's front
yard and again he's talking with her then he asked her if she thought that the cops would be there much longer
do you think these cops are going to be here much longer hey you think they're gonna you you think they're gonna like
take her dead body and move it real quick because I need to find my keys she tells him yes I do think that they will
be here for a while and then he goes on again and says that he needed to get into the backyard so he could find his
keys because he needed to return the cab back to his work eventually I don't know
if he grew tired or what but that same night he had the cab towed he never found the he didn't get the keys that
night he had the cab towed back to his work very interesting story well look if somebody would have told the police
this this is some evidence they could have looked for inside the house which obviously they didn't look for and
then we have Eddie O'Brien's story that he was he says he was too afraid to tell
anybody because he was threatened by a man with dark hair Artie Ortiz has dark hair
all right let's go to the trial Captain so leading up to this trial what we have basically
is for two years they fight over the idea of should this boy who was 15 at the time of the murder is 15 and five
months old at the time of the murder should he be tried as a juvenile or as an adult
and the whole purpose in reading that summary in our trailer of the lulio's article in what he called
the coming of the juvenile super Predator was because at the time in our country several states were
battling with the idea because there was a rise in violent crime and murders committed by juveniles
the idea at the time was do we try these juveniles ages 14 to 17 as adults not only do we try them as adults but can we
sentence them to life in prison without the possibility of parole because you have his article that points out
that hey a big batch of these dudes are just evil you cannot rehabilitate them and they are super Predators they are
monsters I don't want to fully condemn his article because what we have John delulio saying in that article that I
left out of the trailer he was saying that our parents and our communities need to be raising these
children and raising these boys better so that they grow up and they have feelings and empathy and they care about
each other and they care about others and they care about their neighborhoods and their communities where they
understand consequences right he was proposing to build more churches not prisons that sounds great to me help
build more McDonald's and Burger Kings too he is just saying that that punishment isn't the key raising these
kids properly to be good citizens and good adults will help mold them into not being killers and not being criminals
what some states decided the solution was try them as adults lock them up with a
life sentence without the possibility of parole basically lock them up and throw
away the key and then let everybody know this is what happens to you if you commit murder right so for two years
they fought over the idea should Eddie O'Brien be tried as a juvenile or as an adult
and he was arrested as we said in Late July of 1995 he was indicted on August 2nd of that same year
what we have in 1996 we have judge Paul Heffernan orders O'Brien who's now 16 to
be tried as a juvenile if convicted he would face a maximum of a 20-year sentence in July of that same year the
governor of Massachusetts signs into law a bill that would require juveniles over
age of 14 accused of first or second-degree murder to be tried as adults so then the supreme Supreme
Judicial Court decides that the judge that said O'Brien should be charged as a juvenile well
we're going to toss that out right we're going to toss that out and on May 9th of 1997. so we're now at a over a
year and a half after this kid was first locked up it was decided that O'Brien who is 17 at
this time would be ordered to face murder charges in the adult court system whatever happened to the right the right
to a speedy trial what did we say in that one show you have the right to speedy trial you just may not get one
right and because they're fighting over laws that seems like a lot of our laws lately or a lot of these cases where you
go we know that the person has the right to they just never they never give them
the opportunity to well in Eddie O'Brien whether he killed Janet Downing or not fell into a very bad
he had very bad luck on on many levels but on this level where at the time where some of these states
were considering combating juvenile violence and murders committed by juveniles by locking them up and
throwing away the key as we just said the the people that were opposed to that were pointing out that hey
that kind of setup is aimed at locking up African-American black youth children and throwing away the key and so some
people were pointing out that they thought it was you know it was racially biased to do this and it does make sense
because at the time there it was everybody that wanted to attack the rise in gang juvenile gang
violence in the country in the inner cities right and so Eddie O'Brien then became
well we got this white kid who lives near Boston and he stabbed this woman across the
street 98 times so what better way to go no we this is not racially biased this is against the
board across the board which it was but now you can point to this exact incident
this exact situation and go this is what we're going after this sexual sadist who
grew up across the street from these nice people so what we have here Captain is once we are at trial
you have the prosecution who's going to have to present the theory to the jury and walk the jury hand in hand along the
way down the path and point to evidence that convinces them of their theory that
says you know what we believe this happened because we have this piece of evidence to support that portion of our
Theory and we're going to walk you all the way from Step a all the way to step Z and then you're going to give us a
guilty conviction afterwards they say that Eddie O'Brien was obsessed with Janet Downing
that he became obsessed with her that he was watching her and he was asking unusual questions about Janet Downing
and that was proof that he was sexually obsessed with this woman one of the questions that he asked was he asked
Janet's son his best friend Ryan why does your mother sit in the driveway she would pull up and sit in her car for
a very long time often after arriving home I believe she was a smoker I've seen some people say that she was a smoker so
that would make some sense what the prosecution did to support this he's obsessed with her is they had four
different people testify that Eddie O'Brien asked why does she sit in the driveway for a long period of time in
her car the problem with that is it paints a picture that he was asking multiple
people this question the truth of it is he asked this question to Ryan in front of a group of
people right so you have this you have multiple people testifying over and over again to
the same thing but really it's only from one incident he didn't ask multiple people multiple times it happened once
and further it's not that weird of a question well there were other people that testified
that they had they had had the same discussion with other people and other neighbors wondered why she sat in the
driveway yeah for a long period of time sometimes back in the day I'd be listening to NPR and I'd get home
and NPR would have another 10-15 minutes left and it's like well I'll just sit here
I'm gonna finish the show Howard Stern has made me a victim of sitting in a parking spot or in my driveway for years
now I got it I gotta stay on until the commercial break yeah so hold up a sign that says no flicky flicky and you'll be
fine what what they think is going on this is this is interesting too did he ask any other questions there yes he did
ask if Ryan he asked Ryan if Janet was a lesbian and that seems like a very bizarre question to ask I think it
sounds like an immature question he's 15. yeah and we did have a person who testified that said
she had a discussion with big Ed with Eddie's father and they were talking about Janet
Downing mind you these people they practically live on their front porches in the summertime they're all friends
they all know each other they can all see each other's business and these two people were saying you
know Big Ed in this business this woman were commenting on how Janet had not had
a male companion since the divorce between her and her husband yeah some one of the adults posed the question to
the other maybe she's a lesbian yeah or maybe it just takes her some time maybe she's raising these four kids by herself
and she just doesn't have the time to go try to find right but where do where this plays into look the the prosecution
is going to point out that this is a big deal that Eddie O'Brien asked this question it's not it's not a big it's
not a big deal because of the testimony of this woman who says Eddie O'Brien was
in the room and overheard this conversation between two adults so him being a kid a child probably thought
well maybe there's some Merit to it and he asked his friend who happens to be the son of this woman is your mother a
lesbian it's one of those things that on the surface it seems bizarre when you read it that in the paper it seems
bizarre that Eddie O'Brien would ask this but then when you get the full story his dad and other people saying
some stuff and maybe some rumors around town and he said I'm going to ask my friend to ask my friend so that day the
day that Janet Downing was murdered the prosecution points out one thing that Eddie is at the home and he learns
that the the kitchen door to the home is broken the way that this works is that if you were to turn the doorknob on
either side either on the outside or the inside it does not operate the door his
friend explains to Eddie that because of you know the purpose of security we added a deadbolt to this door
that same day Eddie remember he goes into the den and sees Janet Downing sleeping on the couch
we then have the boys agree that they're going to go swimming and the prosecution
would point out that Eddie didn't want to go swimming because once he learned of the broken door to the house and saw
Janet Downing sleeping on the couch that his obsession kicked in oh yeah and that
he figured out you know what I'm not going to go swimming with these guys I'm going to come back in here access
the house through the broken door and I can get to her while she's sleeping on the couch
foreign [Music] [Music] cheers crispy cabin yeah all right so let's get into some of the
facts or some of what the prosecution says is evidence against Eddie O'Brien in this case remember the newspaper said
that they have three separate eyewitnesses who saw Eddie O'Brien fleeing from the Downey House fleeing the scene
and technically that's not the case nobody saw him running from the house what they see is
two of the witnesses anyway see him running from the backyard area or the bushes that are near
the Downing home where the problem comes in for the prosecution at trial is that one of the persons that says that
they saw Eddie O'Brien says under oath I don't know for certain that it was Eddie O'Brien that it was a
tall person that was about the same size as Eddie but I'm not 100 convinced that
it was Eddie because when I saw this person I said I called out to him by name to which he didn't turn around and
he didn't respond right the other Witness their story changed three times before
it was Eddie O'Brien that they saw running from that area well that's a strong witness yeah it it was I don't
know who it was I couldn't see who it was and then the final story was he turned and looked at me and kind of
smiled and it was Eddie O'Brien you pointed out something interesting earlier about Eddie's clothes and
they're remarkably clean for having to stab someone 98 times the third Witness offers up a little bit of reasoning as
to why Eddie O'Brien might have appeared to be cleaner at least his clothes appeared to
be clean after having attacked this woman this witness says that in their yard something startled them so they looked
out the window and they saw Eddie O'Brien jump a fence in their yard fleeing from the area
Eddie O'Brien at this time according to this witness was wearing a black shirt and when he went up and over the fence
he could see a white shirt underneath the black shirt okay well there's your solution Eddie O'Brien was wearing a
black shirt he murdered this woman fled the area took off the black shirt had the white shirt underneath dumped the
black shirt somewhere right and none of the blood soaked through none of it soaked through but here's some problems
with this eyewitness's testimony first of all they don't outwardly say 100 percent it was Eddie O'Brien it was
saying somebody that said Eddie lived in my neighborhood his whole life I know who Eddie is the person I saw was
about the same height and had the same body type as Eddie O'Brien what I'm pointing out here is there's a chance
that this eyewitness saw somebody jump their fence right it just might not have been Eddie O'Brien now you've seen the
size and the stature of this boy it would be difficult to confuse him with somebody else right can we agree on that
yeah but the other problem is I think he stated that Eddie was 250 pounds there's
no way by looking at Eddie being 6'4 was he 250 pounds he was probably closer to
300 pounds that's a lot of man meat to try to get over a fence depending on how big the fence is well this looks good
for the prosecution because it explains away the lack of blood on Eddie's shirt what looks really bad for the
prosecution is the eyewitness's testimony that says he saw this person who he believes to be
Eddie O'Brien jumping the fence this was at 10 15 PM we know that is impossible as Eddie O'Brien was at the midnight
convenience store being interviewed by police and examined by EMT workers at that time
so this eyewitness testimony you just have to toss it completely out okay yeah if you saw somebody man it was not
Eddie O'Brien because I have police and EMTs that will say he was down at Union Square in this convenience store yeah
but all these changing stories of the eyewitnesses it would have to make a a jury or a judge start thinking that the
prosecution is finding people that are just willing to say anything yeah but what I like about this testimony by two
of the eyewitnesses the ones that it could be possibly Eddie Eddie O'Brien that they saw is this actually in my
mind works out in Eddie's favor it doesn't work out in the prosecution's favor because Eddie O'Brien has already
said yes I was at the scene that night right I went into the home and then I fled out the back door at the Cellar
Door I crashed into the bushes and then I ran down Hamlet Street where it looks good for Eddie O'Brien is
these Witnesses say that it was at 9 20 pm Eddie O'Brien and three Witnesses say
that he was at his home at 9 15 and went across the street immediately to the Downing home and then saw what was going
on his life was threatened and then he left the area why that looks good for him you mean to
tell me that in the course of Simply five minutes just five minutes Eddie O'Brien managed to somehow get into the
home leave no sign of a forced entry brutally attack Janet Downing drag her from the den where she's sleeping or
believed to have been sleeping into the living room and during all this stabbing
her 98 times yeah it seems a little difficult for that to be done and then on top of that
if he's not covered in blood did he did he wash up before leaving the Downing house again we're adding time to this
it's just getting more improbable by you know by the testimony was she able to defend herself at all
like being able to scratch up this individual or well that's where we get into some of
the blood evidence there is certainly blood evidence that points to Eddie O'Brien having been at the scene which
makes him look very guilty we got the we got the fingerprint in in the wet Blood
on the uh beam going down the stairs to The Cellar that matches his fingerprints
we have a drop of blood that is later found on his shin that is type A B and a very small percentage of people have
type A B blood so it's not 100 that it's Janet downings but it looks very likely
that it is right that's her blood and he's also stayed in halves there at the scene he says he touched her he rolled
her over it's possible he got some of her blood on him and he didn't kill her if we believe his story
some of the blood he would have got off when he went to the store and cleaned himself off there's the problem though
Captain they found other blood evidence at the scene it's labeled as identifiable meaning
that the sample is good enough to find a match to it it's identifiable but it has
not been matched to anybody it's not been tested against anybody other than Eddie O'Brien Brian
it's not like they rounded up 10 12 15 suspects and tested all their blood and said uh We've cleared you well that goes
back to people's complaints about this case of law enforcement locking into him too early or too quickly I think I think
the issue is not so much too early it's it it's well it's it's the wording that I struggle with because you're
absolutely right it's it is locking in on him not only is he our number one suspect but nobody else could have
possibly have done this we're only going to look for evidence to build our case against Eddie O'Brien and I'll tell you
what man I don't really fault the police I don't fault the Somerville police for
that I felt the prosecution because the police their job is to collect evidence to collect facts make
an arrest hand it off to the prosecutor and then the prosecutor decides do we take this to court do we convict this
man and then the prosecutor didn't at no point look back and say well wait a second we have we have a
third type of blood found at the scene that has we've been told it's not Eddie O'Brien's right
against any other suspects right we're not going to round up any other people in this this whole big mess and and test
it against their blood so that that's where it gets to be to be very difficult and then what gets
to be extremely difficult for Eddie for today because what we have here Captain is he will be found guilty
of murdering Janet Downing the trial lasted roughly about two weeks it started on September 17th and on
September 30th the defense rest now the defense only presented for two days during this trial
and after nine hours of deliberation Eddie O'Brien was found guilty on first-degree murder so he sentenced to
life in prison without the possibility of parole this is the mandatory uh sentence under state law after that was
signed signed into effect in uh 19 what did we say 1996 [Music] one of the big problems for Eddie
O'Brien is this story about Artie Ortiz and being parked near the home on the night in question
it never comes up during trial his defense attorney didn't bring it up that's whiffing it his because his
defense attorney didn't want to the problem with presenting any side of the story is it places him at the crime
scene that's what his his defense attorney thought right where I say I say the opposite
it you need to explain why some physical evidence puts him at the crime scene right there's only reasonable doubt if
we hear that side of the story there's only reasonable doubt if Eddie does Place himself at the crime scene and
then we have alternative suspects because what the jury gets told the story they get told is we have proof
that he was there and it when he was first asked if he was there he said no well that makes him look awfully guilty
yeah or it makes him look like an immature scared 15 year old well and that's why I went through that whole bit
of the the life sentence without the possibility of parole the kid was 15 years and five months old now yes this
is a horrific crime if you're ever going to get life without the possibility of parole
to me it's justified in a case like this the problem is if you're going to take a
15 year old and lock them up and throw away the key you better be damn sure you got the right 15 year old
you better be sure you got the right guy and I think there's questions about if he even did this
I I don't think his size helps well here's here's the other thing too I think asking a group of people asking a
room of people to believe that we have this physical evidence we have this kid who later says yeah I was there but this
is what happened oh and by the way not only did I find a victim who was just murdered fled her home and then within
minutes I was attacked and stabbed myself asking a room of people to believe that
what are the chances right you no one's going to believe that and to be honest with you I'm not sure that I believe it
I'm not saying that this is a wrongful conviction because I believe Eddie O'Brien
I'm saying that I question the conviction Beyond A Reasonable Doubt because I don't think that any
alternative was explored no alternative was even presented at the trial and also
frankly I believe the story against Artie Ortiz why was his cab parked there right
why didn't he have his keys right why did he need to go into the backyard to look for him
exactly you know why wouldn't he give the keys over in the first place why was he visiting her house without her
knowledge or her not being there so what do you think Captain do you think Eddie did it or well Eddie has
also um not Eddie but Artie Artie has a possible more more likely of a mode if you'd be mad because she kicked
you out there's and that she also was damn bad blood between them right just telling
people that she's afraid of him Maddie I just don't understand the motive if it's sexual in nature why wasn't
there any sexual assault not saying that every murder that is sexual in nature has any type of assault but
I also don't see a history of this gentle giant which everybody called a gentle giant and they call him the
monster the monster 15 year old right they call them a gentle giant so the motive doesn't make a lot of sense to me
as far as Eddie's concerned uh they also make it seem like oh now he is here was his big opportunity
I don't see that as being such I don't know and there's just no history he has no history well and that's why
they need for the general public us to believe you know their the Commonwealth's argument inside of the
story is that this was a monster in the making he's a sadistic killer and this is there's no proof of that
this is the first that we're seeing of it because he was so young stabbing somebody 98 times that's that's the
first of it there's normally some kind of aggression we see this time and time again
um violence towards animals no I agree but but violence towards family wouldn't be teachers it would not
be impossible for this to be bubbling up under the surface without anybody knowing
um that's what I have a problem with right right I think if he was obsessed with her on some level
maybe making some inappropriate sexual advancement to her or something like that would make a lot more sense but
this idea that oh he was so obsessed with her would with no evidence of that zero evidence of that
that he was somehow obsessed with her and that caused him to stab her 98 times just
and that's what I mean we're making big leaps here that's and that's what I'm I'm getting at that that it's these are
these are leaps that are being made to put someone behind bars for the rest of their it's not there's no question about
it it's the rest of his life it's life without the possibility of parole and then I could see somebody's argument
going well look he lied okay but we don't have to make this giant leap of why why would a 15 year old lie because
they were scared because they're immature because they don't know how to handle these things that's not that big
of a leap to to or that big of a excuse of why he lied but like these other things like
like we talked about before the taxi cab why was it parked there where were your keys
to explain those things away you have to make bigger leaps and um and I I also don't think he passes the
eye test for me I don't think Eddie passes the eye test I don't see this uh cold-blooded killer I see
a kid that um seems very meek it was the word I'd use I mean he really looks like a big
version of Ralphie from the Christmas story well what we do end up with Captain is I believe it was in 2014 that
the state of Massachusetts they overturned that what might be a flawed idea and I
think that it is of of trying 14 year olds and 15 year olds and then sentencing them to life without the
possibility of parole they overturned that they're they're they will not be convicting juveniles of life without the
possibility of parole now for Eddie to apply for parole he has to be willing to show remorse and fess up
to what he has been convicted of this is the the kind of stuff that drives me insane it drives me absolutely insane
because that's we're supposed to be adults here but that's the circle that's the vicious circle of it is that you for
for one to be rehabilitated for a horrible act and a horrible time in their life to be rehabilitated from that
and from that person you then must be willing to accept what you did and show that you want forgiveness and that you
are remorseful for what you did and that you are a different person now than when
you were placed into the system back then the problem with that is it only works out you only need to be
rehabilitated if you were in fact a bad guy back then if you were wrongfully convicted
then you weren't a bad guy back then right but that's why this nation and this world feels like it's on fire
lately because people just can't be adults about things okay so we have a system
that is created by man we know that there's some flaws to the system right we also know that there's innocent
people that are convicted of crimes so if we know all that there are going to be times where
somebody can get paroled we should allow the parole hearing to happen even if the guy went on trial claimed he
was innocent was convicted claims he's innocent when when the parole comes up still
claims that he's innocent let him go in front of the pro board and let the parole board decide
because to me if I'm going has the guy ever admitted that he did it no he's always claimed that he's innocent again
like you were saying how do you have to be rehabilitated to be clear that you did the crime to be clear the parole
board is the one that does decide that um but again it's it's it's the way that it's that it's like but he doesn't even
get it Go in front of the pro board until he admits that he did this it doesn't make any sense to me
like that shouldn't make much sense to any adult what we do have though too is we do have
the Innocence Project has taken at least a review of Eddie's case which I don't know if through the
appeals process or what will happen here again I'm not saying with 100 certainty that
this kid didn't do it I'm just saying it looks to me I think it's very confusing
case and I think there's just missteps and there's I really don't think there's enough evidence
um and again it goes back to did they lock on to him too long I I whatever we're going to
figure out the terminology I think they they latched on very quickly like they should have because
he's half a mile away from the crime scene and there's physical evidence evidence putting him there knife wounds
and all by the way you got some blood on your shin didn't clean that up so there's some reason to be looking
towards him but you always have to then you'll go back to the drawing board try to prove yourself wrong
you know if you think he's 100 guilty then try to prove that he's innocent and then look look at you know don't let
any Rock go Unturned because this this is a 15 year old boy's life at stake which you know I think we could do
better [Music] a little recommended listening for you if you need to get caught up on our old
episodes download the Stitcher app it's free and if you want to check out our other show called off the Record we do a
lot of case updates and you can find that on Stitcher premium do we have any recommended reading this week this week
we are recommending the politics of murder the power and ambition behind the altar boy murder case by Margo Nash this
is a fantastic read and it really details the trial and Court proceedings in the Eddie O'Brien and Janet Downing
case that's the politics of Murder By Margo Nash you can find that title and others on our website True Crime garage
click on the recommended page and until next week be good be kind and don't let it
[Music] foreign [Applause]

Trail of Blood /// Part 2 /// 417

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Brief Summary

The episode examines the controversial murder case of Janet Downing and the investigation of Eddie O'Brien, raising questions about evidence and alternative suspects.

Key points

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Join hosts Nick and the Captain as they dive into true crime stories.
The Investigation Begins. Criticism arises over the police's early focus on Eddie O'Brien as a suspect.
Artie Ortiz's Suspicious Behavior. Witnesses report Artie Ortiz's odd actions on the night of Janet's murder.
The Trial of Eddie O'Brien. Debate ensues over whether Eddie should be tried as a juvenile or an adult.
Eyewitness Testimony Issues. Conflicting eyewitness accounts raise doubts about Eddie's guilt.
Eddie O'Brien's Conviction. Eddie O'Brien was found guilty of first-degree murder after a two-week trial.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and good to see you!

Host's welcoming sentiment

1:00WatchNov 12, 2022

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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