The Starved Rock Murders /// Part 3 /// 738 | Forensic Files

[Music] [Music] well it should come as no surprise to everybody reviewing this case that
Chester weager was found guilty when he was taken to trial in 1968 now is that a good thing
or a bad thing well it depends in which Camp you are in because there are many people out there who believe that he is
innocent there are many people out there that believe he is absolutely responsible for the heinous brutal
murder of three innocent women this case is so interesting to me because of the that still surrounds it even though we
have this case that's been technically adjudicated and a person found guilty we have all of these questions that remain
so why does this case that is over 60 years old and adjudicated still lead to so much discussion and debate all of
these decades later well for many reasons and we are hoping that we can address as many of those as possible
with other suspicions speculation and things that may or may not point Point toward Chester weager being a good guy
bad guy or guilty of this crime here in this episode well and like we said before he confesses to the crime then he
later says well that confession is a bunch of horeshit and go back to 1960 Captain 1961 you're going to have a jury
of 12 of his peers who ultimately convict them and we got to remember how difficult it's going to in
1961 for a jury to hear that he confessed not only written confession signed statements I did this I killed
three people but now you also have me on camera reenacting the crime reenacting the crimes and as I pointed out in
episode two to me that the the look on his face his movements his behaviors his mannerisms were very convincing to me I
wish I really wish that I would not have seen that because I think that it has swayed my opinion of Chester weager a
little more than it should in this particular case Chester weager other than that confession has
maintained his innocence all of these years and when I say all of these years I mean to date
Chester weager is still alive Chester weager is no longer in prison in fact he was given
parole not too long ago 2021 and because he's maintained his innocence and because some people say
that the confession is not factual cannot be true there are those that believe that he is innocent and then
there are those who put him away and maintain that he is guilty of these murders as well as the families of the
victims they believe that he's responsible as well as frankly the parole board right because it's not like
he's just up for parole 60 years later and they say say yep let him out no he was up for parole time and time again he
had appeals time and time again those charges convictions were upheld and the parole board kept his ass in prison for
all of those decades yeah Captain this thing went all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court they
upheld this conviction now let's go back to the trial real quick though because one interesting aspect amongst others he
does take the stand at trial his attorney mcnamer who I've heard many people that I respect and and people
that I think are very intelligent smart individuals have said that they believe that mcnamer did a great job with what
he was handed I I tend to think that some of the problems with the case that many people have pointed out that
believe that he's innocent I kind of feel like well if if that was such a big deal if this is such
a red flag that this dude is innocent then why didn't his attorney pick up on that in 1961 and present it at trial
because the log not being a murder weapon is one that's pointed out the confession being incorrect is pointed
out time and time again yet at his trial all we are told is that he he recants the confession that it's false that it
that uh he felt forced by the Strategic maneuvers of law enforcement to give a confession he only did it because he was
under the the threat of being sent to the electric chair that it was a way of saving his life but the log not being a
murder weapon which it there's a lot of reason to suggest that it wasn't that's not brought up at trial
that's his his attorney's job one thing that I really don't like in this case is
something that we talked about recently on off the Record the Colonial Parkway murders here we have an individual that
all these years later we are told is a serial killer ker is responsible for three murders two murders in the series
of the Colonial Parkway murders we are told that he was once a suspect the prime suspect in those homicides but he
was cleared because he passed a polygraph in the case against Chester weager we have the complete opposite we
have been told that he took polygraph Time and Time and Time and Time Again passed him pass him pass him yet he's
never cleared they never moved on never wavered from their suspicion of guilt of
Chester weager this case is so frustrating to me because also the prosecution we you we later find out
that the the prosecutor himself thinks well I think that Chester's guilty but I think somebody else was involved or
maybe more than one person and then the jury says well we think that Chester's guilty but we definitely think that
there's somebody else involved so there's all these people that think if he is guilty he didn't act
alone and I think that I like the way that you said that Captain because I think that that is a little more spoton
than the way that some of this information is been has been reported over the years so
he Chester weager threatened with the electric chair we know that their intent was to
convict him and sentence him to death the jury finds him guilty and then comes back and says our recommended
punishment is life imprisonment we don't we don't see death penalty here in this
case now if they're forget about whether you're Pro or against the death penalty I think that it's most of us
would agree that if there ever were a reason for the death penalty would be for an individual who committed a triple
homicide but the way that it's been reported over the years is is that the the jury changing it to life
imprisonment was a clear in indicator that they questioned the guilt of Chester weager yes we think he's
guilty but you can't sentence this man to die remind you it's 1961 they executed people a lot faster
back then than they do today if he truly is guilty and you execute this guy then that's it that's all he's
yesterday's news if he's innocent and you kill this guy well he never gets a chance we never get a chance to get it
right he will not have the chance to prove that we were wrong that this trial was wrong and that he shouldn't be
executed by the state so it's always been reported that it was the jury that took it upon themselves to decide well
this is our fail safe if we got this wrong it it can be corrected at some point as long as Illinois does not
execute this man yeah and Chester gets lucky though too because what we find out and and what you hear which is
actually pretty I think sad and shocking once all your appeals are gone they normally destroy
evidence just get rid of the evidence he was lucky in his case that they didn't get rid of all the evidence but again
the way I think this investigation was mishandled I think the way they were questioning individuals was
mishandled I I understand that you need to find somebody guilty of these crimes but even as the prosecutor you go
well we think it's more likely that there's two people involved but well we have one so we'll try him what happens
if they would have found the other one and so I I I and then you find out later too that the evidence was mishandled I
mean they had items placed in in the same bags as bloody clothes oh yeah the the the
evidence in this case after he was convicted after these appeals were upheld this all these items
became almost like souvenirs right there were children that had on field trips that had examined
touched some of the items some of the evidence the it's been reported that the jacket was
worn by persons for photographs after afterwards the log that is supposed to be one of the murder
weapons was shellacked and and or lacquered rather lacquered and then placed on the
mantle of one of the investigators as a a souvenir of his achievement of finding
the Starved Rock murderer I mean we have a hard time wrapping our heads around it not being
from the state of Illinois and not being of a certain age but this was again reported as crime of the
century trial of the century this was big news Nationwide news in the 60s and it was for many many
years and we have David ruglia the documentarian who put together the three-part docu series on HBO Max
his father one of the prosecutors Anthony rulia he opens up the docu series by saying look where I
live it's been a town divided half the people here he's from the area obviously think that Chester weager is
innocent the other half think that he's guilty and this has sparked Arguments for
decades I misspoke earlier Captain Chester weager was actually paroled by a vote of
9-4 in November of 2019 and then released in February of 2020 so as you see in the docu series
he's released and then about a month later covid lockdowns happen so this this man innocent or
guilty is locked down once again just now uh in a halfway house I believe on the outside well and and look we we see
this in movies a lot a guy claims he's innocent so therefore why would he show any remorse he's innocent so the pro the
parole board is not going to parole him because he's not showing any remorse th this just seems so stupid to
me because it it seems like they only let him out because there's basically nobody left the judge isn't alive
Prosecutor's not alive anymore most of the jury members are not alive anymore so there's there's nobody
alive anymore from this case so it seems like that's why they let him out I mean
and obviously his age I mean you can make an argument because of his age he's not a threat to
society but you have to remember he's charged with three vicious murders he basically destroyed these
victims heads and then on top of that you have you have robbery charges you have the
rape charge you have all these things stacked up against him and I I just don't see with them not coming forward with
new information I think the only reason why they ever let him out like I said is
just because there was nobody else around to argue other than the family members of
the victims to say don't let them out well and that's why the and I'm glad that it aggravates you because I I
believe him being paroled should aggravate everyone because regardless of which side of the
argument you fall on or find yourself innocent or guilty wrongfully convicted what have
you if in fact he killed three people he deserves to still be locked up he deserves to die in prison if he didn't
then it's a grave Injustice travesty that he was even in prison at all let alone for six decades right and so you
could not get it more wrong it it's you know and I I I know it's it's a difficult situation so I'm kind of
walking a tight RPP here but it's like I I just don't know you know paroling him
all these years later doesn't clean any of this up they never have to reconvicted because you have all these
appeals that that he tries for and fails the thing here though too is the reporting on some of this it's very hard
in this case to get down to Brass tax it's very difficult to get to the fact of the matter and the facts of this case
because you cannot it's very difficult for people to review this information review the case and not take a stance
not have an opinion and not maybe allow their opinion to sway or or posture their presentation of this case now one
thing that I found incredibly interesting is we are told through several sources that oh well the the
jury was worried about the evidence was worried about if they may get it wrong if the prosecutors were wrong and so
they spared his life and convicted him to life imprisonment instead of death well that is believable and that that
may be true I'm not saying that that is not true but I throw this into the ring too that there's another source that I
found that said that they interviewed some of the jury members and the jury members didn't say that they convicted
him and sentenced him to life imprisonment for those reasons they sentenced him to life imprisonment one
because some of the people were uncomfortable with the death penalty for any case not just this case any case
right and some of the jurors also believed that the life imprisonment was a heftier
sentence was because Chester weager was so young at the time 21 22 years old that living the rest of his life in
prison never getting out of prison never leaving those walls was of Greater consequence
to him than killing him so when you hear that it's like okay well not all 12 of these people thought
that there is a chance they got it wrong let's face the facts really at at trial
all they are presenting is the confession they're presenting a handful of witnesses that worked at the starrock
L Lodge that are saying that the day after the murders Chester came in and he had Cuts or bruises or scratches or
something on his face now what's interesting is Chester weager does not deny that there was some
kind of damage to his face because he would say oh I cut myself shaving and then in 2003 remember his Alibi back in
60 and 61 was that he was in the basement of the lodge writing a letter to a girl well 2003 his Alibi changes he
says no I was out with my friend friend Stanley Tucker now mind you we went through some
of the suspects early on in this investigation Stanley Tucker was in that short list he says oh I was with Stanley
Tucker we went to nearby Oglesby and I got a haircut at the B at the Ben Franklin Barber
Shop did I have a cut on my face yes I did the the barber cut my face yeah that's one of the problems if you're
again I think if if you watch this documentary if you dive into a lot of these different pieces of
evidence the problem with Old Chester is it's almost like he can't keep his own story straight yeah and he
has an explanation because they go well well why didn't you tell them initially that you weren't writing this letter why
didn't you tell him you're getting this haircut he's like well see what happened
was I I did tell them that but then my buddy lied and said no we didn't go I didn't
take him to get his haircut I wasn't with him and then what you then ultimately find out is you go okay well you know
was his friend lying did the police threaten him as well but in the initial reports the
first time he's ever questioned for a very short short period of time his Alibi is he was in the basement of the
lodge writing a letter to a girl and then there's there's a little too much back and forth on that right like he's
saying no that's what I told him originally that I went and got my haircut with my buddy and then David
ruglia goes back to the the first police report of the time of the first time that they interviewed Chester weager and
in that report remember he's not even a suspect at this point they're just collecting information in that very
first report they've already stated in that report he says he's writing a letter
so the what is of record doesn't ever say anywhere that he said that he was getting his
haircut right and in defense if look if you're going Chester is innocent then you can go well he's been in prison for
a very long time maybe he got confused maybe he's misremembering maybe he is just coming
up with alternative stories to try to save himself and let's make this clear you
can be a liar and not a serial killer you can be a liar and and not have committed these horrible crimes the
other thing too that makes it dicey is that the other crimes that we discuss the rape of of the 177 or 18-year-old
girl in the Maas Park the robbery of her boyfriend that's tying him up and and robbing him
threatening him while he is discussed while this is talked about with investigators while they threaten to
charge him with this and while they make him stand in a lineup and say that both the boy and the
girl picked you out amongst five other in you know four other individuals technically he's never
charged with that case right and as far as the triple homicide goes for Starved Rock he's actually only charged with one
of the the murders and that was a strategy that the prosecutors decided on they realized
that their case other than the confession was largely circumstantial right you had the confession you have
circumstantial evidence it was very very loose yeah he worked there he was in the
area that's not in question but the other part of that is the scratches and people saying oh he
came to work and he had scratches and cuts on his face he says it was one scratch or one
cut the the thing is what we do know all these years later is that Anthony ruglia
the prosecutor did not believe the confession and so if you're going into it of the mind of this that this guy's
guilty the only part of the confession that I believe is where he says I killed those three
ladies well you then are responsible to convict this individual based off of that right even if you don't believe the
rest of the confession now if you don't believe the rest of the confession you now know going into that trial your case
is not a strong one and you are going to strategize and you were going to prepare
your case knowing that it's not a strong one so you charge him with one murder if
for some reason you don't get the conviction you can now go back in later and charge him with the other murders
and this is presented in the Chester weager case like this is some crazy novel idea it's not this happens a lot
right this happens you look at a lot of serial killer cases they take their strongest case and they they take that
one to trial and they hope to get a conviction and if they do they may proceed with other convictions attempts
or they may just look if he were were to have been sentenced to the electric chair there would be no reason to charge
and go to trial with the other two murders and the one thing that I thought was really interesting was ruglia he
said this and I believe it was in the earlys so like 2003 3 2005 he said look part of my strategy
being a new trial attorney being a new prosecutor he was like 26 years old when he's trying Chester weager for this most
infamous case in in Illinois history right remember Richard spec had not killed those nurses yet nobody
knew who John Wayne gasy was in Illinois those crimes had not been committed yet
so here he is this this very green young guy trying it it was one of his first trial experiences first murder trial and
it's going to be one of the most infamous crimes in State history and considered the crime of the century
Nationwide and so he says this was so smart in this interview that I read he goes you know what I wanted to see how
the jury reacted to that confession the confession that he gave that I didn't fully believe but believed he was guilty
and what their take was on it was it good was it a good strategy to present it or bad strategy to present it because
guess what if it's a bad one I'm gonna leave that part out when I go charge this guy with these other murders yeah
the second time around we're going to build our case differently against this guy and I do want to say something here
and this is just gut feeling this is just something from my heart you know we can point fingers all we want even if
you think that Chester weager is innocent it look if he spent six decades in prison that is
horrible horrible should never happen to anybody ever especially in this the greatest of countries on this planet but
the thing here is I don't believe for a second that the individuals that are responsible for putting him in life
imprisonment I I do believe they all thought he was guilty that they all believe that he had a hand in this that
he was responsible I actually believe and I'm basing this off of some of the statements I can't say this with 100%
certainty Captain but I actually believe that the investigators and the prosecutors believed that Chester weager
and another individual did this the problem was they couldn't build the case against that other individual yeah and I
don't think they could get Chester to move on that and look there's also evidence that is shown in the
documentary where early on in this case Chester writes a note to his father basically
saying look I know what happened I'm just not the one responsible for the murders and again he has excuses well I
never wrote that I never said that and we know that he's lying about certain things and we know that he changes the
story to make himself look better December 13th 1960 Chester weager according to records
wrote a letter to his father from the county jail while he was awaiting trial and the captain's right there are many
statements in that letter that that imply that either he was a part of something that resulted in the murders
of these three women or that he knows who did [Music] [Music] all right we are back cheers
mates two one parters in a row and then all of a sudden boom three-parter well you you let the
evidence lead your investigation right and we allow the information and the True Crime Story to
lead us in the length in which we end up presenting these cases right and a lot of times you don't know what you're
getting involved in until you're eyeballs deep in this murder mystery and I say mystery because I got to tell you
Captain spending three weeks having reviewed everything I could find on this case I don't know that I 100% know
exactly what happened here I have some very strong suspicions I have some strong
feelings but I look up to the sky and say thank you for not putting me on that jury in 1961 thank you for not putting
me on that parole board all of these years to decide if this man should walk or stay within those Prison Walls well
and I I look above and say thank you for not making me an investigator on this case I I don't think I don't think
somebody could investigate that crime scene and walk away without some trauma well that's a good segue here we we
couldn't plan that any better could we so if not Chester weager if he's not responsible then who is right who
murdered these women and got away with it well we talked about some of the other suspects that police had in their
sights at one point we had Stanley Tucker who worked at the lodge there are people that are presented in that docu
series that seem to have some pretty strong suspicions about Stanley Tucker the interesting thing about him Captain
is he's the guy that he says that Chester weager says I was with him I he took me to get my haircut at Ben
Franklin Barber Shop Stanley Tucker says says no I if in fact he told police that
we know regardless he did tell police that in 2003 we can't say that Chester weager
absolutely said that to police prior to 2003 right but let's say he did what we do know did happen is Stanley Tucker
does not put himself with chester weager that afternoon and that's really interesting
and that could be the fork in the road here for this case because what if you're building your case and you say
all right we got this Chester weager guy yeah we suspect him and we have reason to suspect St Tucker as well because
there were some people that claimed that they had seen two individuals that somewhat matched Stanley Tucker and
Chester weager description and Loosely matched the description of Stanley Tucker's vehicle a black Cadillac down
near the canyon the afternoon where the women are killed and there's at least one statement that says that two men
matching that description and that vehicle matching that description were talking to the three ladies that
afternoon well they both worked at the lodge so they would both have access to the twine that was used to bound the
victims Chester weager says me and Stanley Tucker he's my good friend he's a good guy he's a great
guy well what if you're police and you have let's say Chester weager is telling the truth he says well I was with Tucker
or I was writing a letter whatever let's whatever explanation he's giving at the
time you talk to Stanley Tucker and you go you know we got to put these two guys
together we like both of them for this and we actually think both of them did this right Stanley Tucker never
confesses that's the difference between him and Chester weager and according to everything we've reviewed never puts
himself with chester weager that afternoon if you had so little against Chester weager to convict him now
cross-examine that with what you got against Stanley Tucker which is nothing nothing and if you think in your heart
of hearts that these two committed this crime together you at least go forward against Chester weager hoping that if
and he never turns on Stanley Tucker he never says no that Stanley Tucker did it
other than offering up the Albi that they were together that afternoon well Stanley Tucker never turns against
Chester really I mean other than okay well we have if Chester is telling the truth about his Alibi well then yeah
okay so then he goes against him there but he's not stating to police or to the public hey I believe Chester is
responsible for these three murders well and remember we were talking about persons from a youth camp nearby
youth camp for troubled teens troubled adolescents they described several ways juvenile offenders were involved in the
search for the three women in fact it was a group of boys from this troubled teens camp that that were the ones that
first found the women and there are some people that point out well that's a little strange you're searching this
large area rough terrain and it only took 90 minutes to find them I I don't mind squashing that a little bit strange
no it it if I'm 15 16 17 years old it's taking me even in the snow 15 minutes to
walk a mile they were located a mile from where they were last seen so I don't find that to be incredibly
difficult they had 90 minutes to pass between finding them well and they're also found out a place that is a
destination in that Park so correct if I'm looking for an individual that's missing I'm going let's go
to the major areas that everybody goes to I mean again we bring up the deli case a lot but why weren't the girls
found right away well because they weren't in an area that was was a main attraction to that Park a main area that
everybody goes to one potential suspect that's not discussed very often is a man he was a boy at the time but a man
by the name of Jerry nmy what's interesting about him is he was in that group of boys that located
and found the three women having been beat to death in Starved Rock in St Louis Canyon well
why would he be of interest it's because well just a couple months later he beat
a girl to death so this is from the Tuesday May 3rd 1960 daily telegram newspaper charging this guy Jerry nmy
age7 at the time with murder the headline is Chicago youth admits beating girl to death the sworded brutal account
of a date a bottle of wine then the rape and fatal beating of a 16-year-old girl
was told Monday Night by a young fugitive from a correctional Camp Jerry nmy age 17 gave the account after police
seized him in a stolen car and took him into custody on a warrant charging him with the murder of Marilyn
Duncan I'm not going to read this entire entire article because it's rather lengthy and there more than just one
article on this guy because this was a horrible brutal murder of a 16-year-old girl but the short of it Captain is that
he was out on a date they went together to pick up and purchased a bottle of wine they went to a parklike
area where they consumed some of the wine and he made advances sexual advances on the 16-year-old girl which
she was not up for right didn't didn't like Jerry nkey that much and his reaction was to pick up a
brick and strike her in the head and face with it and then he raped her and left her for
dead and unfortunately she never regained Consciousness after the attack she was transported to the
hospital but either died upon arrival or were on the way there there's no question as to his guilt because he once
he's picked up he he admits this and he tells us exactly how he killed her he says he used his fist he used a brick
and he kicked her as well he stripped off her clothing raped her and took her money took money from her purse and he's
part he's one of the guys that finds these women and you you referenced this earlier it's hard to believe that
somebody wouldn't be scarred terribly by by the trauma of having found them and now you sit here go chicken or the egg
right did yeah was this guy capable of murdering this poor girl before he saw those bodies and the way that they're
found and and oddly enough found in a manner that's so similar to his victim her clothing was stripped off she was
beat in the head in the face these victims beating the head in the face and they're partially ripped off yeah and so
it's chicken or the egg did is he is is he responsible did he have a hand in this and this is just who he is or was
he always capable of it never had anything to do with Starved Rock and then killed this girl or did
this plant some kind of horrible sick disgusting seed in his head so he's an individual that that didn't come up
in the docu series and I'm I'm a little surprised he's not talked about a little
bit more cuz yeah it's so similar again to it's it's it's the instrumentation that's used to commit the crime well my
fist my I kicked her I used this brick okay well if we are correct on what the killer used to kill these three
individuals camera binoculars stick they're all items that would have been found local to the crime items that the
killer would have found with them you know at the crime scene right in the process of the attack yeah whatever is
closest I can grab and use as a weapon and very similar again and he I think he makes a very good suspect they were able
to go back and look at some of the evidence and test it and we do know that one of the hair samples matched a boy
from that area I believe there was four boys in the family and it matches one of them
them and it makes you wonder because they haven't named this individual or at least I couldn't find the name of the
individual is is it this guy's hair sample yeah so it's it's not the the person's not named and and I have my
suspicions as to why and and we'll get back to that in a minute but one person that is discussed is openly discussed
and has been for a long time as a potential suspect is George Spyros and we mentioned him along the
way before he is the son of the owner of the Starved Rock Lodge yeah he is he's an interesting cat um simply
because he's a weirdo well yeah I I don't know I don't know him well enough to say that he's a weirdo but look when
when people that worked at the camp would say that he would they' turn around and he'd be staring at him
through a window and he would uh terrorize a lot of the women by having these dogs that everybody was afraid of
and he'd have the dogs surrounding the building why he'd say I like watching you bend over while you clean look
that's a that's a creepo yes if if I were to believe that that happened and went down the way that she describes it
then yes very weird creep 100% I I'm fully on board with that I just look at the company that she keeps and
it's a short drive to Crazy Town my friend it's a short drive to crazy town so I'm not saying that she's wrong I'm
not saying that she's lying um I have no reason to doubt her but you know there's
two sides to every story I guess and look that here's the thing that that does give me pause with with her
information because her other suspicion is with the dogs right that he would use
these dogs to kind of trap people and she saw in the pictures in the crime scene photos what she says are dog
tracks and that made her Wonder Could George Spyros have brought his dogs and used them to Corner the women
and then attack them and one thing that's interesting too regarding George is that we did talk about red fibers
that were found and a lot has been made of these red fibers uh we do know that they they collected red fibers from
George and I'm not talking about recently I'm talking about back in 1960 right he had a red and black coat
uh and two red jackets one thing that that I'm a little concerned about is the evidence that I reviewed says that he
submitted samples of red fibers from the red and black jacket and one of The Red
Jackets the way that it reads implies that he gave samples from all three jackets but then it
then the statement finishes by saying that one of the jackets is located in another city so it's unclear if they
ever collected any fibers from that other jacket well and because he also worked at the lodge he would have had
access to the twne he would have had knowledge of that these ladies were there I also find it I
do find it a little strange too that you know he was sent away just a couple months after the murders
and I don't know if he was you know maybe that was ple you know maybe that was planned even before the murders but
when your name is coming up in conversation during the investigation and you leave town that comes off as
pretty suspicious it does and and I I'm with you I don't like that anytime I see
that I'm I'm always very curious but there are people to say look his family was from from Greece he went to Greece
uh it was a planned trip it's not uncommon for wealthy individuals to send their
children abroad After High School or once they're coming of age and this was a very wealthy
family and that could certainly be the case or he killed three women or was involved in this murders and and Mom and
Dad seem to know about it or have their suspicions and sent him away I want to be clear here I don't think that saying
sent away is a great presentation of information behold yeah I agree it could simply be planned it it was already
arranged or came about afterward I would imagine that the plan wasn't for the plan may not have been for George
to just you know be a a custodian at the lodge or or be a bus boy at the lodge there there may have been plans for him
to go on to other things other endeavors with an education and such but the the thing that I want to hone in on
is I thought I I was very curious about that when she said the dog tracks and here's the dogs and here's why it made
me suspicious of him and he's a weird guy I right away I I was like fascinated by that thought and then very quickly it
hit me well now we're assuming that those are dog tracks this is out the state park right it snowed those could
be animal tracks of any kind it's never been presented or proven by anybody that
those are are in fact dog tracks and in fact those tracks in the snow they are there I've seen them in the pictures so
she is right to bring that up but it's never been stated by anybody that I could find other than her that those are
dog tracks so raccoon we know that there were hunters in the area because we know
that from people they questioned um so this could have been any kind of animal or track doesn't have to be dogs
at all what happened to George do we know well that's where a lot of people say that uh is another clue in this case
is that so in 2005 George kills himself a lot of people say that the time period when he
does this is suggestive of guilt and why would that be suggested of guilt well because in
2005 there is an attorney who is seeking Clem clemency for Chester weager Chester
weager still locked up in 2005 right seeking clemency and part of that clemency hearing brings up the idea that
George Spyros might make a good suspect in this case I have the details of that of that suicide if you would like for me
to go through that yeah I I think it I think I think it's important as far as when it goes to suspects so there are
police reports that are can be found if you do enough digging here and I had mentioned earlier I did not know exactly
the age of George because his birth dat and age are redacted from any records that I could find not to say that if I
had more time I couldn't figure out his exact age but I mean if you watch the docu series you can see that he's about
Chester wier's age in 1960 and probably a year or two younger I I feel dumb throwing out These
Warnings because it's a true crime show but I know that different people have different triggers and so I
apologize uh in retrospect for anything that I've said but I also will warn you that this this may be too graphic for
some individuals so May 3rd 2005 the police arrived at the home of George Spyros this is because they were
notified that they they should check on this individual there there's multiple page
reports in front of me here from the Lal County Sheriff's office I'm going to sum
it up a little bit to to save us some time here Captain but the when the police so they
pull up the Sheriff's Department ities pull up and they sound their siren and honk their horn multiple times hoping
that somebody would just you know emerge from the home and say hey what's going on officers that doesn't happen so then
they go up and they knock on the door nobody answers ring the doorbell nobody answers they check the door it's
unlocked so now we're going to go in and we're going to announce ourselves well the home is a it's a very
large home like I said these are wealth this is a wealthy family right once strange thing is that they they find
groceries right at the at the front door on the outside of the home like it looks
like somebody walked up set their grocery bags down and then entered the home and left the the front door
unlocked yeah there is a pair of men's pants which we would later determine is they are George's pants that are on the
floor right next to the front entrance to the home so now police are in the home they're they're calling out George
it's the police it's Sheriff's Department welfare check they hear nothing silence pin
drop after they search the home the short of it is in a room and I believe it's an upstairs bedroom that is
being used as an office and I think there was four four or five bedrooms in this home the the description of the
home's fascinating to me I know this isn't a real estate show but Captain I'm telling you the uh there's like a a
sauna and a uh steam room and and hot tub and exercise room down in the in the basement area but this one bedroom I
believe is being used as like an office type setting and what they find in this office is very disturbing so George is
in the office chair positioned to be looking at the computer screen there are large amounts of cash on the desk that's
holding the computer and George has passed away there's a gunshot wound to his head there is a gun on the desk
right but it does not appear that he shot himself in the head and set the gun down on the desk because they find
another handun on the floor next to his right hand where his right hand is kind of draped down over the arm of the chair
that he's sitting in one strange thing amongst others is that he is wearing a green shirt but no pain an the large
amounts of cash on the desk are completely bizarre too and then his small black dog has been shot and killed
as well so a lot of people think that because of this lawyer coming and getting involved and doing a new
investigation and presenting a different basically Narrative of what happened that she then gave some suspects and
some information to law enforcement and because he knew of this that's why he took his life other people then would
argue well he was diagnosed with cancer and he didn't want to go through that ordeal so he ended up taking his own
life because of that scenario well and as you know Captain your boy did a little more Kraken than just that so
it's actually a little more complicated than just being diagnosed with cancer so he was diagnosed a second time with
cancer so he had throat cancer which look there's no there's no easy cancers there's no good cancers obviously but
there are some that you hear from others like oh that's particularly painful in comparison to some other diseases one
could get but I've heard that throat cancer is very and I don't want to get into too
much personal stuff but and we can talk about this off microphone sometime what George did in his ailment
is not unlike a good someone close to me exact same situation minus the dog and the pants off but the way that it the
way that I understand the story from persons that know George or knew George I should say is that he had been
battling cancer for a long period of time he even went through some kind of experimental
treatment and experimental surgery and all of these efforts were for not and he was given the diagnosis
that there's nothing left that we can do for you you are going to be in a lot of
pain and you are going to pass away soon there are several statements by people that spoke to him in the days leading up
to this terrible event that he was there was no optimism and no hope in his words
and not only that like people are saying like well I hope you feel better soon take care of yourself and I'll talk to
you in a couple days and he's he's telling friends and people that care about him I'm not going to be here in a
couple days right he he hinted at this now people go well why are his groceries out front why are his pants off why is
there a large amount of cash why did he shoot the dog I don't know the answer to any of
those questions but none of us I can tell you this none of us sitting in the garage here have experienced anything
that's been described to me that George was experiencing when he chose this and I and I I hesitate to even say that he
chose this it doesn't sound like there was a whole lot of choice involved right I I don't know what that would do to me
mentally emotionally or or how I would handle the situation and I hope and pray that I never have to
so while that doesn't mean that he wasn't involved in the murders it I don't particularly think that his death
suggests that he was involved as others would say because look even if I have no
illness at all if I'm sitting here in my very nice house and have lived my pretty
nice life and something that I did that maybe I was nervous about 1960 a little less
nervous in 1961 when they locked the guy up yeah a little less nervous after he had been in prison for 10 years 20 years
30 30 years 40 years 50 years 60 years and the guy's still in prison he's in prison 44 years later and some lady has
a clemency hearing and brings up my name well she doesn't even and she doesn't even bring up that name publicly she
just gives that name to law enforcement we don't know if law enforcement even contacted him or if they started looking
into him we have no clue about that let me get out my let me get out my Scrabble
game and show you exactly how many FS I give about the situation had my name been brought up 43 years after a man was
still sitting in prison for what I'm supposed to be nervous about yeah and let's be very clear about that it's not
like she brought up this narrative and they went okay well open up the doors and let them out and we got to look for
the new killer we got to arrest him real quickly if your name comes up even if it's publicly who cares your name has
been coming up for years your name has been coming up in conversations since 1960
who cares he's still in jail he's still responsible for the murders as far as in
the Law's eyes you have nothing to worry about so I don't think it's evidence of
anything again now if you think Chester is innocent or even if you think he's guilty but he didn't act alone George
because he worked there is somebody that you would look at similar age range they
could have been fr he had access to the twine but I I don't know I I just I think they
would have found more evidence yeah I think what's intriguing about George is his statements to police back in
1960 and so as like anybody that worked there um we should be clear here too he didn't just work at Starved Rock because
his father owned the lodge he practically lived on the ground rounds of star according to George on the
afternoon of the 14th he was coming and going too remember that's how Chester weager and Stanley Tucker became Under
Suspicion too they were coming and going about that time as well around the time
that it's believed that the women were killed Chester weager goes to the top of the stack because he has a criminal pass
there is we don't have time to go through this part of the story but the there's police record out there that
when he was 12 years old he may have raped an eight-year-old girl I C can I be frank with you here Captain I've I've
been Nick for so long can I just be frank uh I prefer when you're Nick but go ahead I have reviewed several
documents and the docu series and a YouTube video as well as the book and several podcasts and I can't make heads
or Tales of if he was 100% guilty of that juvenile crime and I think part of the problem is that it was a juvenile
case and some of that information may be sealed or completely lost seeing how it
would have been 193 something right right 19 uh no 1940 something so there's plenty of
information out there to suggest that that he was guilty of juvenile rape and there's there's his version of the story
was that no he was not right so I apologize for not getting to the bottom of that one but again him being 100%
guilty in that crime does not mean that he's 100% guilty in the Starved Rock murders but the thing about George is
he's interviewed he gives statements to police he is one of the persons that gives them information that potentially
he's he's not implicating Chester Weaver let's say but he's saying in at least one of his interviews that I think that
I might have seen Chester Weaver and Stanley Tucker out together in Stanley Tucker's black vehicle that afternoon he
says he was leaving Starved Rock and he there was uh two vehicles that were parked on the on the side of the road
and one of them the black vehicle was halfway in the road and the reason why he remembers it is because he had to
Swerve to avoid it when he was leaving Starved Rock and he said I'm not 100% certain but the people that
I saw the guys I saw look like Stanley Tucker and Chester weager and the vehicle looked like Stanley Tucker's
vehicle well didn't he also claimed that he saw them talking to the the three victims yes so in that story there's
another vehicle that's present and there are the three women would have been either a part of the store or not
but what he's doing is he's placing that vehicle on those two individuals possibly those two individuals he says
it looks like them he can't say with that it's absolutely them but this would have been near the entrance to St Louis
Canyon which if you're going to review Stanley's story and Chester weager story neither of those two ever put themselves
anywhere near the canyon so if they were there and they're lying that they were there
then you can go well it's not a short it's not a big leap to think that maybe they're responsible that he gives
another version of the same story at a later date where he says I think I saw five
guys and three women and again he says not 100% positive that it was those three women but it could have been and
not 100% positive that Chester weager and Stanley Tucker were part of the Five Guys that I saw but it could have been
them so it's this weird thing of where like let's let's go down the rabbit hole of pretending George is guilty and lying
and having something to hide he does kind of throw these guys names into the into the realm of possibility for
investigators with these interviews but at the same time he's never saying 100% that's those guys that's who I saw he's
just saying look you asked me if I could remember anything from that day after the fact and as time goes on I've been
thinking harder and harder and this is what I think I remember but he does he is very clear at the end of his second
interview where he says he has the opportunity to implicate Chester weager further and
does not so that he's these are direct questions and answers here we go from the from the police
record you you don't know anything about any scratches or bruises on Chester weager face George's answer no except
what I heard so he's saying I didn't witness any bruises or scratches or cuts on wier's face but I heard from others
he may have had that question do you know whether anyone ever used a straight razor to shave with answer I don't know
question I think that is about everything well they're wrapping up the uh they they're confirming with him do you
have anything else to tell us and he's he's saying as far as I'm concerned that is that is everything you know what's
interesting though here Captain I wish it that that they would had gone down this road a little bit further because
when I hear this question or read this question about do you ever have you ever heard of anyone using a straight Razer
to shave with it that to me leans to the idea that Chester weager told them I cut
myself myself shaving right because wouldn't you think that a coworker if you were to know anybody's
shaving habits wouldn't you think that you would know maybe maybe I'm going nowhere with this but for some reason it
seems to make more sense that what they are implying the question that they're trying to ask without using weager name
is do you know of anybody that shaves with a straight razor right but again so straight razor would be used by a barber
yeah back back to that same interview what did you see answer two cars five men and three women question one of the
cars was Stanley Tucker's Cadillac answer that is right question you saw Stanley there yes question you thought
you may have seen Chester weager answer maybe question why do you think that answer what do you mean why aren't you
sure it was Chester answer I didn't remember it when I should have instead later and the other reason he was
sitting next to the driver and he had his head turned toward the three women who were standing outside of the car I
only got a profile in the back of his head one thing I'm a little curious of they ask if the vehicle was a
convertible and he says no I don't think so but I what we don't get from any of the information everything that I could
try to find is a great description of Tucker's Cadillac other than it was a black Cadillac I mean this case is just
so complex because I think you can make an argument for a lot of these suspects to be involved if you think that there
was more than one killer I think that the the physical evidence of the hair tells me that yes it what I am of the
belief that it was absolutely two persons that were there that assaulted and killed these women yes what was
their intent what was their motive I don't know because we still don't have answers we kind of have this idea that
we think that this hair matches this individual that lived in the area but we don't have the answers to the other test
of the other hair that was found in a different victims because that hair doesn't match it's not the same hair so
therefore there has to be at least two killers yeah and so here in lies the there's a couple problems because you
have a attorneys for Chester weager who they want the conviction vacated and they are the ones that went to the great
efforts to get a judge's approval to test some of the evidence that has survived all of these decades they
brought nine items that they wanted to get tested the judge gave them permission to get eight of the items
tested what we do know is in August of 201 22 the results from hair evidence tested from the starve Rock
murders that was received from a laboratory it came back the results came back one of several of the hairs found
on a glove worn by one of the victims Francis Murphy it was a man's hair and the DNA was
retrieved and the hair was found not to this hair was found not to belong to weager now what's what's really
interesting Captain is I found from the 60s that said that when they tested the hair and we know this from
the docu series because the docu series says the hairs were dissimilar they were
comp the hair that was found at the crime scene the murder scene was compared to Chester weager and the the
the analyst said dissimilar now to be clear if anybody's out there getting ready to conduct their first
investigation you don't take hair from suspect and hair that's found at the murder scene put them into a computer
and the computer says absolutely yes this is a match or absolutely no this is not a match this
is skilled trained individuals that are reviewing these under microscopes and saying whether or not they are similar
or dissimilar so dissimilar does not mean that 100% that hair did not match or belong to Chester weager right what
it means is if you call me and ask me to skip work one day and come into your courtroom and ask my opinion I'm going
to tell you they're dissimilar would I say this hair came from Chester weager I would say no it did not but what's
interesting now we have the DNA you pull the DNA we have Chester wier's DNA that's why this case it here's the
other thing if he's innocent and if they got this completely wrong my God can you imagine if they
would have killed him in the electric chair this would have all went away this whole mess would have gone away a
long time ago if he would have died in prison if he wouldn't have lived into his 80s this all would have went away
eventually but because he's still alive and now because he's out we will probably we well not probably we are
getting more answers in this case and the answer that we get is that this hair that was found on the glove of one of
the victims that I believe I would ding ding ding let's wager Franklin that that hair in that woman's
hands she ripped that out of the scalp of the individual that was attacking and beating her to death yeah that hair the
DNA the follicles on that hair the DNA with found within that follicles do not match Chester weager that was not his
hair so why don't we get clemency there was another victim that had ripped hair from
the individual that was beating her to death and that hair is different than the hair that was was found in the other
victim's hands brown hair compared to blonde hair both hairs were compared to Chester wier's hair via microscope in
1960 both of them dissimilar unfortunately from my understanding Captain the other hair and the other
victim's hands it's not really going to be very helpful to our case in 20124 because I don't think they found
any follicles so therefore there's no DNA with current technology to take from that hair to check against Chester
wegers they did go the extra mile with the DNA that they did find on the other hair and
attempt to cross check it via databases to find a match now I've seen some sources that say that
they've never found a match you brought up boys um I think we should be clear here
I've never seen the statement boys I think maybe you had boys on the mind because we were talking about Jerry nmy
who was only 17 right the information I found and I'm not saying that that you're wrong it
could be boys it who who knows the Jerry nmy could have been involved or it could have been another
teenager or a group of teenagers but the information I found was that saying that
that it's believed that they found that this hair would match one of four brothers does that
sound right to you that's the information I found yes yes four brothers that grew up or had lived in
the area at some point yes now the reason why I think that they are not willing to name anybody and I don't know
this for certain maybe they do know which of the four brothers are belong to there's a good chance that none of those
brothers are alive and that they can't we can't deceased yeah we can't go out and do the
boots on the ground detective work and go out and try to collect your DNA somewhere brothers
and then pull it in and con and 100% connect it today it it may have only the DNA may have only LED you that far in
the family tree where you can go well it matches it will match one of these four
brothers but we we don't have enough evidence to know which of the four brothers what would be interesting is
let's find out who had four brothers in that area did Stanley Tucker have four brothers in that area because if he did
if he had three brothers in that area I because I still am living in a world where I think it's possible that him
that weager and Tucker may have done this together there are other people that say maybe Tucker and George Spyros
did this together or all three and then there are people that we didn't even get
to yet in here that have fallen Under Suspicion Smokey Rona who was muscle for the
mob his name has been bandied about in this case for decades and and probably for good cause yeah claimed he got paid
$25,000 for it one thing that is shameful is you want to talk about getting paid MH the some of the
investigators got paid there was $355,000 reward money $30,000 of it was put up by the employees or sorry
employers of the victim's husbands 10,000 each and adding up to 30 and then the owner George Spyro's father put up
an additional 5,000 so $335,000 was parsed out and given to the investigators in this case stupid it's
it goes against everything that we should stand for and and and frankly you do something like that
that's a breeding ground for corruption so I was very upset to to learn of that well that that's again he goes back to
the whole thing if the investigation is mishandled if the interrogations are mishandled if the trial is
mishandled if there's just so much that you can make an argument in the court of law that this
case at least one of the murders is solved still to this day and they're trying to get him
cleared but just I think 16 hours ago prosecutor came forward and said hey we're we're
we're M we're setting a motion a motion to get this whole case dismissed so as as of right now Chester is responsible
and the court of law is responsible for at least at least one of these murders but I think you can make a very
strong argument for and against almost every suspect and I think what makes it so
complicated is we don't even know how many killers there are is there one is there
two did George see these Five Guys or these five guys that were seeing talking to these three three women are they
responsible well the gentleman Jansen who went on to work for the FBI and and Strikes me as a very brilliant
investigator he was brought in to give a fresh set of eyes to this case after it
lingered for a couple months before they arrested Chester weager and he said look
after I reviewed the case he's convinced that somebody gave a ride to the ladies
that that whether they asked for the ride or whether they were offered a ride or for we we can't believe forced to
take the ride because we see pictures of them smiling and having a good time after they arrived at the Canyon
but his review of the case says to him that somebody gave them a ride to that Canyon and he thinks that because that
person or persons has never come forward saying look I gave the ladies a ride that day that they probably Then
followed them into the canyon and were the person or persons responsible for these horrific murders I think that's a
brilliant analysis of the crime and the way that it potentially went down we didn't even get
into the Paul uh Paul Meer brothers who are other persons that have been mentioned as suspects potential suspects
in this case Smoky Rona we touched on him a little bit but this case it's it's interesting it's fascinating and I'm
glad that we are getting some answers I'm hopeful and I I like that there's finally some real true science getting
involved in this case and I would like to see that science eventually name names because this mystery has got me
all confused and backwards here as to who could be responsible weager comes off at times as a victim and other times
he comes off as just some potentially evil human being and I I don't know how to sort that out but look there's a lot
of great source material out there we've referenced a lot of it throughout our coverage of this case again I think the
best thorough and most impartial Source material is Chicago mag.com the amazing article by top-notch
writer and true journalist Jake Mali uh he did a masterful long form story titled unmaking a murderer there's
also a book called The Starved Rock murders by local author and historian Steve Stout that was published by UDA
house publishing in 1982 there's the docu series on Max that we've talked about that was done by
David ruglia and uh take if you haven't seen it yet take note of the fancy house
and office that David ruglia has um and that's all due to hard work and success he's actually the founder of American
Crew The Brand American Crew yeah and then you also have a podcast that is called the Starved Rock murders with
Andy hail so I will throw out a little caveat here a little buy or beware the starrock murders book by
Steve Stout while it's great and I find Steve Stout to be very brilliant he is absolutely convinced
that Chester weager is guilty and it rings loud and clear throughout the book the docu
series presents everything in in a very good manner on on Max where it gives a lot of both sides of the story and then
if you review the Starved Rock murders podcast with Andy hail that is fullon chest Chester weager is completely
innocent and probably framed which makes sense because who is Andy hail Andy hail
is one of the attorneys representing Chester weager so that all makes sense but regardless Andy hail David ruglia
Steve Stout and Jake Mali all great fantastic work by all of them and Captain great work by you and thanks to
all the listeners for tuning in and joining us on this wild ride this [Music] week want to thank everybody for joining
us here in the garage same bat Time same bat Channel Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful
listeners yeah open up your eyeballs a little recommended viewing uh in December of
2021 HBO Max released a three-part docu series that you've heard us reference several times in our coverage of this
very intriguing case the docu series is called the murders of Starved Rock the series focuses on the investigation into
the murders and weager incarceration with the idea that maybe he is innocent the series was produced
by Mark wallberg and of course focuses on David ruglia the son of Anthony ruglia who was one of two Prosecuting
attorneys in this case back in 1961 we both recommend this docu series give it two thumbs up five bottle caps
you will enjoy watching this one again it's called The Murders of Starved Rock and you will find that on the max app
until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] litter

The Starved Rock Murders /// Part 3 /// 738

Part 3 of 3

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In 1960 three women were brutally beaten to death in the canyon of a state park in Illinois. The Starved Rock state park was a travel destination for many. After the murders the park became the stuff of nightmares for many. The name Starved Rock is equally as intriguing as the homicide case itself. It hints at both mystery and violence. This week in the Garage we take a trip back to 1960 to discuss a case that is still making headlines today. This was both cold blooded murder and evil so cold in the frigid snowy St. Louis canyon of the Illinois State Park.

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Brief Summary

Chester Weager's controversial conviction for triple murder sparks debate over his guilt and the mishandling of evidence in the Starved Rock case.

Key points

Confession Controversy. Weager confessed to the crime but later recanted, claiming coercion by police.
Evidence Mishandling. Evidence in Weager's case was mishandled, leading to questions about the investigation's integrity.
Parole and Public Opinion. Weager was paroled in 2019, sparking debates about his guilt or innocence.
The Confession Dilemma. The jury's reaction to Chester Weager's confession raises questions about strategy and guilt.
The Search for the Truth. Investigators grapple with the evidence and the complexities of the case.
A Troubling Discovery. A young boy who found the victims later committed a brutal murder.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

If he truly is guilty and you execute this guy, that's it.

8:29WatchFeb 14, 2024

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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