The Starved Rock Murders /// Part 2 /// 737 | Forensic Files

[Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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[Music] the Starved Rock murders case the triple homicide case from the state park of
Starved Rock in Illinois has fascinated and intrigued so many people for over six decades now where we left off we had
walked you through the investigation as it were March of 1960 and now we start off with April
1960 we're going to go to the 4th of April here Captain the report is we have state troopers and conservation
department employees they're back at the scene they're back at the St Lewis Canyon they are doing a fine tooth
combing of the canyon looking for additional evidence because now we've had a situation where the snow has had
an opportunity to melt away from the scene and they're hoping to find items of evidentiary value because what we have
not found is what they are referring to as the sex maniac killer or Killers involved in this case one item of
interest that is found on the 4th of April is inventoried as red wool and there are some red fibers that
have or believe to have importance in this case what I'm a little confused on with this item in our timeline is this
item is listed as red wool from the dress of one of the victims but those red fibers that keep coming up in this
case I don't know if they're one in the same this item on the fourth is simply reported as red wool from the dress of
one of the victims this leads us to another interesting part on the timeline 5 days later on the 9th we have family
members uh of one of the victims Mrs oding who they are reporting that her rings are missing remember we talked
about motive right was this a sexually motivated crime was this something else were they staged to make it look like it
was a sexually motivated crime the thought was if it wasn't sexual nature could it have been a a robbery attempt
or a botched robbery here's where we have some evidence that it could be of that nature we have these missing
valuable rings and jewelry from Mrs oding that's reported by the family some of the sources Captain say that this was
also reported by family members of Mrs Murphy as well let's go to the following day we have restrictions are lifted so
what this means is the St Louis Canyon is now reopened to the public for the very first time since the victims were
found on March 16th 5 days later on the 15th of April we discover that the Rings were
not missing at all the jewelry was not missing at all persons in the investigation come back and they say
that we found those missing Rings they were located in the gloves of the victims we also have a report from
investigators at this time stating that the Starved Rock employees employees of the lodge as well as scores of others in
the surrounding area have have all been fingerprinted also at this time we get a
farmer who reports that he saw two hitchhikers in the area around 400 pm. on the day in question March
14th there is no followup on that information my guess is that they were not able to confirm who these people may
have been and it's surprising to me that we because we have so many different items at the crime scene but we also
have so many victims it's Sur surprising to me that they didn't get some kind of
fingerprint evidence so they could test against somebody yeah and that's the thing here too we talked about the
fingernails scrapings from the victims being sent off for analysis we also just discussed the Rings The Missing Rings
being found in the gloves of the victims I think that that's a large part of this
how cold it was the snow that's coming down we know that at least at least two of the three victims were wearing gloves
it's also likely then it's not a big leap to think that our killers were wearing gloves maybe not to go
undetected but just simply because it was so cold outside right so now you're going to have a lack of fingerprint
evidence based off of that this is where we talk about the gloves again and this
will end up being a very key part to this case April 18th samples of hair found in
the women's hands and we'll go through this it's described as the women's hands but it's a little more simpler than that
a little more simple than that I'm sorry so one glove is analyzed by again this Eastman Kodiak company laboratory they
found 18 strands of brown hair in the hand of Mrs oding they found eight strands of blonde
hair on the glove of Mrs Murphy investigators have every reason to believe that this is the hairs of the
killers and just that short description based off of looking at these items from
the naked eye using just the naked eye 18 strands of brown hair were found in the hand clenched in the hands of Mrs
oding and eight strands of blonde hair were found in the glove on the glove of Mrs Murphy if these hairs are different
from one another as described then I would think the police would have been right with their initial assumption that
we are looking for more than one perpetrator absolutely we talked about the area being opened back up to the
public you can now access the St Louis Canyon we do want to be clear here that the papers did point out while they they
removed the fence and they opened up this general area to the general public that they did continue to keep state
troopers on hand to maintain guard in and around the star of Rock State Park and this is in large part because one we
do know that sometimes The Killers will return to the scene we also have the situation where they've not figured out
who has done this who is responsible yet and you talked about this in episode one
the level of Terror that we had with the general public we got a boogeyman on the
loose we got a monster out there who has just killed three prominent women out in
the open in broad daylight at a state park it shows a killer that's Brazen it shows a killer that is vicious not maybe
not even afraid to get caught what we would later learn is that the murder investigation would continue for about 8
months with no arrest at all unfortunately but during this time it would become obvious that Chester weager
one of the persons discussed in episode one at some point during that eth month's time became the
primary suspect in this case and he is questioned time and time again throughout that eight months on a
regular basis now there has been a lot of debate over the years over the decades I should say about how much
pressure was put on Chester weager and depending on who you talk to there is varying degrees of what the police's
investigation was and how it involved with chester weager what we're going to bring to the table today is the complete
record of that this is a matter of state record so it can be debated by whoever wants to debate it by persons in bars
people in at the uh County Fair in Illinois but this is what the state says per our records and this is what has
been reviewed time and time again over those decades so this is considered by the state of Illinois to be fact okay so
the complete record according to the state on March 19th 1960 Chester weager who we would later learn is prime
suspect number one is interrogated for almost 2 hours now it's difficult for the captain and I to sit here and say
that on the 19th of March just one month after the murders that he was Prime Suspect number one but I think the state
record will show you that they're honing in on this guy and the level of questioning and the amount of
questioning with Mr weager will fully disclose that at some point he does become the prime suspect
this will lead us to March 24th when weager is again interrogated this time for approximately one and a
half hours and this is interesting here Captain because the the reason why they are talking to him is in regard to
something he brought up to them when he spoke with them before he had told them look you know
from the lodge where I'm working and where the ladies were staying yeah it's like a mile to get there but there's a
shortcut from the lodge to the St Louis Canyon that I know about this is where the bodies were found I know about this
this shortcut because I often walk the woods he he's he's a guy that says his entire life he enjoyed walking in the
woods a lot of times by himself he found it to be peaceful tranquil there's a lot
of people that do this type of Hobby and find relaxation and a place to clear your mind taking a nice walk he's saying
there's a shortcut to this St Louis Canyon from the lodge so in this hour and a half
interview interrogation whatever you want to call it they are specifically talking to him about
this element of the investigation two days later on the 26th they spend an hour with Chester
weager in the canyon Mr weager then is taken back to his apartment after this hour in the
canyon where the investigators are asking him about his buck skin jacket or it's also described I believe as a a
leather jacket at times or a suede jacket yeah I believe that there was a eyewitness that claims to see a a
vehicle with some gentlemen one matching this leather jacket description I mean it it sticks out I mean it just screams
Bon Jo it screams Blaze of Glory Bon joy and it's a unique I don't know how unique it would be for the time but I
would describe this buck skin jacket as unique right it's got the the tassels they ask him about this jacket
he has no problems like he's very forthcoming and all the investigators say this it's not like he's being
disgruntled or he's not willing to answer their questions or show up for these interviews and interrogations he
meets them in the canyon he shows them the shortcut he takes them back to his apartment where he shows them the buck
skin jacket and as the captain points out that with a witness statement the police are starting to believe that the
killer could have been wearing a similar type of jacket or at least someone who approached the women or were seen
talking to some women was wearing a similar jacket on the day that the murders occurred
we do know at some point captain that they they take samples they even like cut away pieces of this jacket and
photograph this jacket I have to believe that this is when that occurred now let's go out almost a month
later April 20th Chester weager was again questioned this time for about 12 hours during which time it's reported
that he took six lie detector tests this is according to the state this is not according to Chester
weager he took six lie detector tests the Troopers in charge of the investigation admitted later the
intensity of the investigation would put a strain on those who were investigating
this case they also admitted that they wanted to put a strain on the persons that they
thought might be responsible or persons that may have information and later people will come
forward and say Chester weager who has a limited education The Strain on those subjects
could be heightened could possibly be heightened now he's interviewed again for 12 hours during this time he takes
six lie detector tests he does not conf confess anything he never admits that he
was there he says he wasn't there he said he's never killed anyone and nor is he charged by police with any offenses
at this time this will bring us to September 27th we have to introduce a man by the
name of Deputy dumm he is working with the LEL County Sheriff's Office he goes and he picks up Chester
weager he's been involved in this case from very early on but it's the first time that his name is presented in our
timeline on the 27th of September Chester weager is given several lie detector tests between the hours of 9:00
a.m. and please make mental note of this this is not an error between the hours of
9:00 a.m. and 1 a.m. think about that amount of time 9:00 a.m. to 11: a.m. that they are
interviewing and giving several lie detector test to this individual who's already we know has already been given
the polygraph test six times during this interview on the 27th of September Chester weager makes the following
comments about the investigation he would say that a man by the name of John Reed was there interrogating him who
spent several hours of that interrogation pleading with chester to confess we know
you did this just tell us you did it tell us the truth he also says that he John Reed threatened to give him truth
serm right if if you're not going to tell us the truth we can inject you with this truth serm and we're going to get
the truth from you anyway Chester weager says that at some point during this interogation he was
instructed to answer yes to all questions in the lie detector test the next lie detector test that he would be
taking including those for which a yes would be an admission of guilt now keep in mind we have to point
out here this is Chester weager comments the state recognizes those comments and has put them in this
record however other persons there we do not have them giving the same statements
in regard to the interaction or what he was told or how he was treated on the 27th of
September right on the same day Chester wiger is driven to the Lal State's Attorney's office after the lie detector
test that he took earlier that day the assistant States Attorney this is Craig Armstrong testified that during the ride
Deputy dummit several times told Chester weager he would be sent to the electric
chair and I believe he was using the phrase you're going to ride the Thunderbolt if you don't confess you're
going to ride the Thunderbolt I think it was the lightning bolt now let's go to Mid October 1960
the Illinois State Police they decide that we are going to unleash 24hour surveillance on Chester weager
and it's reported in the state record that they maintained 24-hour surveillance on this individual that
that's not cheap takes a lot of manh hours they maintain this 24-hour surveillance on him for four weeks for a
period of four weeks during that time state troopers drove Chester weager to work and had
pictures taken of him this so that sentence is very important because what we would later learn is it wasn't like
they were tailing him in trying to be super stealth mode spy about this they were they kind of wanted him to
know we're following you right it was part of their tactic part of their strategy so from mid October to Mid
November he surveilled for 24 hours a day this leads us to November 16th 1960 when Chester weager was questioned
at length so is this the third time he's questioned so he's I'm losing track here
is it now the fourth time he was originally interviewed like on the 17th and but that was a very friendly hay
we're interviewing everybody that works here and that's the 17th of March just days after they were killed and then
he's interviewed a handful of times and sometimes for a very lengthy period of time
over and over and over again in this eight months that follows so he's questioned on the 16th
this is going to lead us to November 17th at 2 a.m. when Chester weager finally breaks down and
confesses this time after about eight or so hours of questioning and there's a lot more that
goes into this too as far as what has been reported over the years but I wanted to point out what is this is all
agreed upon by the state the state is not saying no we didn't do any of that the state is saying this is what we have
in our records this is what was reported To Us by the persons involved the authority figures involved and this is
what we recognize as fact so of course once he confesses this will lead to the arrest of Chester
weager now the part that's not so simple here is that he's also being threatened with
being charged with other crimes that are not related to the Starved Rock murders
at this time he is threatened to be charged with murder for the star of rock cases
threatened to be charged with rape and several counts of assault and robbery and some of this is stemming from
two situations that took place I believe it was not quite a year but took place in the year of
1959 both of these incidents took place at another park nearby so this maasin park that is not terribly far just
a so many miles from the Starved Rock State Park yeah and how this crime went down was an individual took a couple
tied up the man tied up the woman they both believe once the man tied them up that he was just going to
rob them and let him go or just or maybe just leave him there but he ends up raping the
girl and she claims that he was basically playing with a boy bullet in his mouth the whole time was kind of
like swishing the bullet around in his mouth so she felt like she could identify this person well when they went
to Cops initially when they went to the law enforcement initially it's I don't think law
enforcement beli their story now why would these two people make up this story doesn't make any sense what's what
makes this of importance to the Starved Rock murders investigation is you have remember all reports are that
they're looking for some sex maniac murderer this to me the the way that you describe those crimes and the way that
they're described in several sources that we've found it almost sounds like something
leading up to the events that took place at starv rock where you have this escalation
right this this violent rapist who did not care that this woman this young woman I believe she was
17 out walking with her boyfriend is not threatened by the fact that there's two
persons there that goes up takes control of the situation they're very similar they're
out for a walk in a park a nearby park to Starved Rock yeah ties and this is not terribly
long for like I said it's 1959 I couldn't find the the month in my notes here but ties them up and it's the
threat of murder obviously making the threat of murder to this girl who he's victimizing
and then robs the the the boy who he had tied up stealing the wallet or at least
cash from his pockets before fleeing the scene now this was a case that yes they were
there was some investigation going on but they had really nobody to tie it to they had no good
leads as far as I know in that case now once they hone in on Chester weager for the Starved Rock
murders they go back to this guy and girl who were attacked in maason park and they say you you know do you
think you could identify your attacker and the girl says yes I will never forget that man's face the Des the
description that they offered both both the guy and the girl was not you couldn't eliminate
Chester weager as being the as salent based off of that description I wouldn't say that it fit him to a tea but what I
would say is it's similar similar age similar height similar weight and we know that weager lives in the
area so yeah weager and we also know that he hunted so he would be out in Parks he'd be out
in nature weager is subjected to a lineup bring everybody in have them stand next to each other and let's see
if this guy and girl individually independent from one another can pick the same guy out of the lineup and pick
Chester weager they both do now the problem with that lineup is if anybody seen the picture of this lineup of these
Five Guys standing next to one another none of them look anything like the guy standing next to them it is
laughable when you first hear that this rape victim this rape Survivor this and also her boyfriend which was there he
was tied up when you find out that they both picked this individual out of a lineup
you go got him yep and if you got and if you got him for this crime in a park and within the next year a a
similar crime multiple victims escalation okay got him got him throw away the key and then you see the lineup
and you go wait a second that they put one young guy in with a group of elderly men
well if you know that the person that attacked you was a younger man now my only
caveat to this whole lineup thing is yes was he the only young person but they they had an they had
another option they ask you do you recognize the man that attacked you and they point out
Chester they could have said no we don't see him at all exact you're exactly right and but but we should make sure
that we underline the idea of oh you describe both of you described the as salent to
me and as the investigator I'm now going whoa hang on a second I'm not telling this that this them this but oh got a
guy that matches that description and he is now my main suspect and has been one
of my main suspects in the star of rock murders case of course I'm going to do a
lineup but then you have the investigators also their actions speak louder than words they have Chester weager stand
next to four guys that don't look anything like him so if he resembles the description of the as salent then of
course these other four guys that look nothing nothing like him are going to look nothing like the description of
Thea of the asent right it's a very tricky sticky situation and when we come back from this beer break we will have
Chester wier's [Music] confession [Music] welcome back to this complicated case this one will have your head
spinning sometimes innocent guilty one killer two killers cheers to you all thanks for joining us here in the garage
cheers to you Colonel and cheers to you and I tell you what Captain as I sit here in the cold February of
Ohio waiting for better and warmer weather we review a case like this and it makes me
want to stay inside indoors forever not go to the park at all uh the the brutality of this case it's in the if in
fact this was a complete random attack just it's a it's a terrifying thing to ponder as we promised we had have his
statement now the confession we should point out here Captain is typed and then signed by Chester weager
agreeing to th yes this is my statement so there's a court reporter that is there typing this at the time we have
multiple people that are involved this is not just the investigators and that's going to be key here because later we're
going to have Chester weager who's going to say I was abused by the detectives during this
questioning we can't say with 100% certainty that he was or was not as we were not there we can only go off of the
statements or lack thereof of other persons who didn't have a dog in the fight so to speak that that are not say
that are saying no he wasn't he did not appear to be physically abused nor did I
witness any abuse when he was in my presence or in the presence of the detectives this is from
chicago.com and there's a lot of great source material out there about this case I want to point this one out and
single this one out as I believe this is the best that there is the best reporting on this case and this comes
from a gentleman by the name of Jake maluli who published this in December of 2021 in an article titled unmaking a
murderer against Chicago mag.com now Chester weager confession is very detailed and it offers up possibly some
answers as to exactly what happened there that day let's take a deeper dive into this confession by Old Chester the
confession states that during Chester wier's afternoon break from work he was walking toward St Louis Canyon
when he encountered the three victims now this we should note here Captain he has in previous interviews and
interrogations offered up an alibi for where he was at the time that it is believed that the women were attacked
and killed now remember he was working that day but his original statements to the police was yes I was working that
day and sometime between I believe he says 2:45 and 3 or a little after 300 p.m. on
that Monday March 14th he went on break from from his job and at that time he states that he went
down into the basement area of the lodge where he was writing a letter to a girl he also
states that he did some other things like maybe grabbed something to eat or smoked a couple cigarettes or what have
you but that is sort of the centerpiece of his Alibi or what he claims to have been doing when it is believed that the
women were killed remember we know that they left the lodge shortly after lunchtime that day so the confession
says the complete opposite that he was walking in the woods during his break toward the canyon when he encountered
the three victims he stayed states that he grabbed a strap that was around the shoulder on the shoulder of one of the
victims because he believed it was a purse that he wanted to snatch a purse and take off with it but it turned out
that the strap was not to a purse that it was to some binoculars and that strap broke at that point he said that one of
the women hit him with either the binoculars or a camera so we have the three women one of them's carrying
binoculars one of them's carrying the camera he attempts to snatch and grab and flee unsuccessful one of them starts to
hit him with something he describes as either binoculars or a camera then he says another one attacked them with
something sharp perhaps a comb then somehow he was able to calm the women and persuade them to walk into the
canyon as he followed he told them that once they returned to the canyon he would let them go back in the canyon the
women agreed to allow him to tie them up he used string from the kitchen that he had in
his pocket he stole nothing from the women and began to walk away that's when one of the women broke out of their
binding and attacked him he picked up a tree branch knocked the woman unconscious and dragged her body into a
cave fearing that he had killed her he then bludgeoned the other two to death to
eliminate any Witnesses then the woman he first hit regained Consciousness and struck him
with the binoculars he retaliated with the tree limb and the binoculars overhead he spotted a red and
white Piper Cub airplane and was worried that it was a police a state police airplane so fearing that he had been
seen or would be seen he dragged the bodies of the other two women up into the cave remember according to the
statement The Other Woman is already in the cave then I took this here lady's coat off if I'm not mistaken weijer said
and I put in front of this one here and just made it look like rape is all I can
say end quote asked whether he removed one woman's pants and stuck them under her
undershirt as was the case at the crime scene he said quote I don't know he checked their pockets for money finding
none he left the scene he washed the blood off his hands in a creek or in the snow then returned to the lodge to work
his evening shift that's his confession to the police of how the women were murdered he
didn't intend to kill anybody he went there and having seen them thought he would snatch the purse and run off and
when that didn't go as planned and they attacked him he fought back and it got out of hand he killed one and then had
to kill the others and then staged the scene according to his statement which again this becomes confusing I think for
the public because law enforcement media everybody's saying initially we're looking for a sex craze Maniac we're
looking for possibly two killers now we got this guy confessing one killer not two killers did this all on his own and
guess what wasn't sexually motivated everybody else is saying it is sexually motivated but now we're saying nope and
and I think it goes back to what we talked about like good cop bad cop was there a guy in the room
going well we know you didn't mean to hurt them we we know that this wasn't sexually motivated we know you were just
trying to rob them and then it got out of hand oh and and maybe they attacked you first I think that's where we get
this story if you believe he's guilty then you can simply say well he's just not telling you the full truth if
you believe he's innocent then you believe that this is all fabricated it's very difficult because this confession
he would later recant and say that no that that's not factual I gave this confession under s
which yes well he kind of recants because we got to do a couple steps here the other thing that is very odd in this
case is that after he confesses law enforcement takes him down to the scene has the media come
out and has him basically step by step go through this reenactment almost tell us what happened
position the bodies here then what did you do to me that's very strange because one how is he how is he going to
remember all that I'd like to actually see the footage of of that scenario because I'd
like to see is he stumbling over his words is his confession similar to the one that he gave it's a lengthy
confession he signed his name to all of them there was no evidence that he was beat or that he
was you know physically abused to get this this confession out of him but you know there obviously there was an
interrogation of some kind lengthy one but you don't I mean when have we ever seen that in a a case where they take
the suspect that just confessed down to the crime scene and have the media there
to get all the information I mean just seems ridiculous it it is ridiculous but again it's the 1960s and that's kind of
how they did things back then it's wouldn't be uncommon to take the offender to the scene today or even in
the 70s 80s 90s what have you but you're right you wouldn't bring the media along
with you you would you would you would film that photograph and record that session yourself in house the police
would here what I wish that I could do is go back and unsee you know you said you wish you
could see review all of that footage I've not been able to review all of it but seen portions of it and I know
you've seen portions of it I wish that I could go back and unsee the portions that I did see
because it's got very difficult for me to look at this unbiased after having seen that because
it was I thought it was very convincing and not only just convincing it at Parts looked to me like he enjoyed
the attention yeah of you know he's he's reenacting this crime best he can whether he's making it up as he goes or
whether he's acting out a script that's been laid out for him by law enforcement
I can't say but what I can say is what my eyeballs tell me the old eyeballs tell me this guy looks like he's acting
in a in a part like uh but but enjoying it you know he's smoking cigarettes he's
got his hair all done and he is going through the motions one by one of this is what happened when and how it all
went down now there's there's a lot of questionable things in his statement I don't deny that one bit and there are
people very smart people much smarter than I that have said no this crime could not have gone down the way that it
did in fact what was so interesting about watching the documentary on Max The Murders At starve
Rock was one of the prosecuting attorneys Anthony ruglia who I believe to be a very smart
intelligent a very good prosecutor he even says in the documentary look are there parts of this confession
that are wrong he goes do I believe the confession 100% no he said but it's not my job to
believe the confession he said the only part that mattered to me is at the end when he's of the confession when he says
he killed the three women that's what I was there to prosecute so even a smart man who has more insight into this case
and and a wealth of knowledge and information that we've not been privy to says the confessions probably wrong I
have to believe it but a couple things let's point out a couple things that are wrong couple things things that seem to
be right with the confession because that's the other problem right Captain it would seem at least on the face of it
that some of these things he did get right there's going to be some details that you would think that the
only only the killer would have known so police were able to confirm and this was
presented to the jury I know we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here but in 1961 this will go to trial and as
we already covered it's near the end of 1960 that they get their confession from
Chester weager when it's when this thing goes to trial it is presented to the jury that this whole idea that he during
the process of killing them or after having killed the women the the red and white airplane flew over and he believed
that oh he could be spotted or they would see the victims on the ground for from the airplane I must conceal the
bodies and this is when he drugged them into that shallow cave well it's presented at
court that there was a small red and white plane flying in the area that day that afternoon they had the flight logs
they had the uh the the the pilot and the the the owner of I believe it was a flight club or a pilot club that was
nearby where the plane was housed so they had testimony backing up that incredible detail within his confession
so that stands to to me as something that probably is ringing true the problem though is some of the
physical aspects of the confession and the crime scene itself right many people have pointed out time and time again
Chester weager he's smaller in stature there's no way that he would have had the ability to physically pull these
women up into that cave after having killed them now I'm going to dispute that a little bit I I
would like to push back a little bit yes he's a he's a smaller guy right he's 21
years old man remember the strength we had at 21 uh God I want to get that back but
uh now I I'm a much larger individ ual than Chester weager but I don't believe I would have
had any trouble pulling them up one at a time into it's five feet okay and well you also have a you have an adrenaline
rush and if you watch portions of that reenactment when he's there with law enforcement with the media filming
everything he is pulling up A grown male who is playing the part of one of the victims now I don't know that he's
physically pulling the man up but it's you know the the way that it's reenacted he is certainly using some
Force to guide the man up into that cave but Chester weager he served in the Marines for two years so I'm not going
to believe that he's a weak individual but here's here's the thing though Captain let's say that he could
pull him up on his own let's say that he couldn't there's a couple of things that
are physically incorrect with the science of the murder scene there's two different kinds of
hair found in the victim's hands we already covered that so what I'm getting at here is if
Chester weager killed or witnessed or was involved in the murder of these three women I think that there is a
world that exist that his confession is wrong and he still was either there involved or responsible for killing
these women and that somebody else might have been there with him and if that's the
case he did not have to pull those women up into that cave by himself right the other thing is I don't think anybody
pulled them women up into the cave because I don't think that they were alive I think they were killed in the
cave I think the blood evidence suggests that the other thing that's interesting
too is and this comes from the notes of the investigators from 1960 the notes from the investigators
1960 days after the murders they're talking about the twine that was used to tie the women up and in those notes it
says there's no bruising found around the wrist of the victims and there was there was no tension I believe is the
the note that is made right so if I'm picking up what you're putting down they were bound after their murder
I would expect yes if they were if they were tied up and then killed I believe you would find bruising around the wrist
and if his confession is correct you would definitely find bruising around the wrist because he states that one of
the women Broke Free well you're not just going to wish it away right you're going to have to you're going to have to
force your way out of that and that's going to create some bruising all the blood the majority of the blood is found
in that cave there's no bruising on the wrist I think that what happened is just
like the skirts being pulled up after they were killed probably there's a chance that this
twine was applied after they were killed and what that would mean is that somebody forced them alive up into that
cave or convince them to get up into that cave and you know what zodiac killer BTK we've seen it a 100 times
before look I'm ladies I'm just here to rob you look I'm I'm an escape convict on the run from the police I'm just here
to take your valuables all I need you to do is get up in that cave for me yeah and I I'm just going to take what I need
from you and everything's going to be okay I'll leave if you do as I say nobody's going to get hurt and guess
what half the time when some bad guy tells good people that half the time they do what that guy says and sometimes
that guy is not telling you the truth and he intends to harm you or kill you for what reason we don't know yeah never
get in the van that's right never let somebody tie you up and what's weird too Captain is that now this goes along with
this whole robbery motive remember police were searching for a motive and and who wouldn't it's human nature even
if you're not involved in investigation it's human nature to want to know why something this horrible would happen to
anybody ever right what kind of monster could do this and why would this monster
do this well originally it was thought that it was going to be some kind of sex maniac well the problem with that became
yeah they were displayed in such a manner it would appear there were several indicators at the crime scene
that yes this was sexually motivated murders but then the science comes back and says we didn't find any evidence of
sperm with any of our victims I want to be clear here when they come out with that information they say so the victims
weren't raped but then there's a whole other school of thought that yes that there was still a sexual assault even
though that type of evidence was not found I think the sexual assault could be debated that we may never
know if that was a motivating factor if it was something that that took place or
something that didn't take place but that was an indicator to the investigators at the time that that
wasn't the motive and so then they they didn't manufacture this idea that there was a robbery no that idea was presented
to them remember the family members contact the police and they say hey our mom's jewelry is missing the rings that
she had the very expensive rings that she had on her finger we can't find them you know they're unfortunately they're
preparing the woman for burial and they don't have her rings well when the investigators go sorting through all the
evidence and clothing and items that they've collected they find it amongst the clothing and in some of the gloves
stuffed inside the glov that doesn't mean that it happened at the murder scene the women were
processed the victims were processed it probably happened then it was probably just an error a very innocent error but
see now they the idea of robbery was presented to them oh no sperm couldn't have been sexually motivated well what's
the motivation missing jewelry missing expensive Rings robbery that's our motive well then you find the Rings the
problem is the investigators never took that off the table even though it's believed that nothing was taken from
these three women and according to Chester's confession nothing was taken from these women that robbery was still
the motive that this is what started this whole thing and it no pun intended snowballed out of
control you had a violent individual Chester weager who had committed previous crimes according to the police
according to that lineup that terrible lineup that we discussed which is so weird too right like because that's that
is one 100% a sexually motivated crime so you have elements of that here too I believe I there is the sexual nature of
this crime it look were they staged probably the the legat would indicate that but the robbery part I what I what
I do not like is when people review this confession and they go well well they weren't robbed because nothing was taken
from them the the binoculars were found the camera was found the jewelry was found can anybody sit here and say with
100% confidence that no cash money was stolen from these women no I've not heard anybody or read any statement of
of the like right so that still stands an opportunity there now if we can which I
don't think we can if one were able to successfully eliminate both of those as possibilities for motive based off of
the crime scene and the evidence well then you have a whole different mystery here on your hands this means that
either just some complete crazed lunatic killer went total skitso and just attacked and killed these women which I
don't believe there's there's things that suggest this the destroying of the face we've talked about this before and
longtime listeners will remember if you're new to the show you've not heard this before but maybe you've heard it
elsewhere or read this elsewhere psychologists will tell you that the destroying of the face and the head of a
person is suggestive of severe mental health issues could be schizophrenic and so on and so and and a
violent schizophrenic person not all schizophrenic people are violent in fact most of them are not at all right but
it's it's the destruction it's not just the killing of the person it's the to destroy them to deface
them the other thing that is left out of some of the reporting which is very strange I know this one thing made the
documentary but it's not in all the reporting but the I believe it's the left indexed finger the tip of the
finger was missing from one of our victims and I believe it was from Mrs Murphy so the tip of her glove and the
tip of her finger are missing I would like to know more information on that is this is there any chance was it was this
the tip of the finger was it broken and torn or was it cut because we don't have any other
indicators of a Sharp object being used on our victims if it because it makes you wonder if it was it postmortem was
it possibly you know I'm going to take this and a souvenir from the killer or is it just simply a defensive wound
exactly exactly Captain that's what I'm wonder I want a better description because the way that the the way that
it's reported is that it was removed postmortem but the word removed is weird right again I want to know was it broken
and torn off as a defensive you know was it just happen stance because I'm sorry to
be to be this gruesome and disgusting here but when you strike a person 100 times in the head and face there's a
good chance that you're probably striking them a number of times after they've already expired and it also
makes me wonder again not to be gross if you're eating a sandwich please put it down but is there a possibility that
because again we don't know exactly how long they were out there is it possible that an animal got to them and and made
any injuries postmortem very likely again we need more of a description on how they believe that this tip is
removed and lost because you're right it to me it could also suggest like you said maybe
some type of hit you know we've all seen the movies hey they they clip off a finger and take it back to the person
that hired them so what is your motive if you are able to successfully eliminate a SE sexual motive or robbery
or both which I don't think given the circumstances or the evidence or information that we have that we can say
100% that we can rule those out what I do believe though is the coring of the women because again I don't think they
were just chilling in the cave when the killer happened upon them I think the coring of the women along with the
staging and the physical evidence of finding two sets of hairs each independently being found in the hands
of different victims and after analysis appear to be different from one another I think
that's incredibly suggestive I'm looking for two people minimum in this case now was Chester
weager one of them hard to say his confession again could be wrong not 100% factual yet he could still have been
involved I have a hard time believing that anybody responsible for killing three people
being involved in killing three people in the way that these three were killed is a person that's just telling the
truth every day of their life and we know even if the conf E even with the confession we know he told different a
different story before we also know that criminals is human behavior it's it's natural
for for persons no matter how terrible they are to minimize their guilt she attacked me I just I was just trying to
score a few bucks by snatching a purse she attacked me and then I had I was forced to fight back I was forced to
confront the women and I I in a fit of rage or in an attempt to fight her off I picked up a a a log and
struck her over the head and bludging her to death and then I was forced to kill the other two and conceal the
bodies because I couldn't leave any Witnesses I didn't intend to kill anybody minimize
[Music] [Music] guilt is Chester innocent is he guilty wow your guess is as good as mine
if you have thoughts check out our blog at true Crim garage.com and stick around
for part three same bat Time same back Channel be good be kind and don't [Music]
lose [Music]

The Starved Rock Murders /// Part 2 /// 737

Part 2 of 3

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In 1960 three women were brutally beaten to death in the canyon of a state park in Illinois. The Starved Rock state park was a travel destination for many. After the murders the park became the stuff of nightmares for many. The name Starved Rock is equally as intriguing as the homicide case itself. It hints at both mystery and violence. This week in the Garage we take a trip back to 1960 to discuss a case that is still making headlines today. This was both cold blooded murder and evil so cold in the frigid snowy St. Louis canyon of the Illinois State Park.

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Brief Summary

The episode details the Starved Rock murders, Chester Weager's confession, and the investigation's complexities.

Key points

The Starved Rock Murders. A triple homicide case that has intrigued people for over six decades.
Missing Rings Mystery. Family members report missing rings, raising questions about the motive behind the murders.
Chester Weager's Confession. After months of interrogation, Chester Weager finally confesses to the murders.
The Victim's Identification. The girl confidently identifies her attacker, Chester Weager, in a lineup.
The Lineup Controversy. The problematic lineup raises doubts about the identification of Weager as the attacker.
Chester Weager's Confession. Weager's confession details a shocking account of the murders, raising questions about its truth.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

We got a boogeyman on the loose!

Discussion of public fear after murders

9:26WatchFeb 14, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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