The Pamela Smart Case, Part 2 | Morbid | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is morbid [Music] it's so morbid here it's so morbid
because it's the day after the [ __ ] scandaval finale yeah you're gonna have to bear with us for
like a moment here because maybe a few moments the Vanderpump Rules Super Bowl has begun it started really yeah the
playoffs have begun I would say we had the finale of Vanderpump Rules last night I know some of you are like
Skip Skip sipped and that's okay it's okay but for those okay to be lame who partake those of you who celebrate oh my
God was that or was that not the most infuriating thing you've ever seen like we've seen a lot of cheating
go down on this show yeah we have never seen cheating to this level go down on this show when Sandoval walked into
Raquel's LED in Galaxy lit apartment Mama grow up I left my soul left my body when Sandoval called Raquel Ariana and
she still was like I oh my God I was I was beside myself I was so beside myself on the couch are
you team he absolutely [ __ ] said I love you and then said he didn't say it or you team he said they love you he
definitely said I love you a girl I saw on Tick Tock literally like slowed it down and he said I love you why are you
playing mind games with your mistress he's a lot I like what he's a lot they're both really disgusting his the
way he talked to Ariana last night I was like Ariana you [Music] it works it absolutely worked look at
her flourishing out here in these streets when Kristen did that spell with her I we looked at each other and we
were like that [ __ ] worked because look at her that's why we used to sell it like she doesn't even give a [ __ ] we
have saw a night up in here too and last night watching Ariana on Watch What Happens live in the Revenge dress of the
century I showed John and I was like I was like tell me this isn't a goddess that we should like worship at her feet
also how do you cheat on that exquisite looking human snack being they always cheat down always but like how do you
even cheat period and remember I I think I asked my ex-boyfriend straight out because he was like a big old cheater
yeah and I asked him one of the times because I was like I just really like to get inside on this because like I've
never actually met somebody that does this kind of heinous [ __ ] I'm not a monster like you to tell I was like so
can I interview you real quick I was like why uh why that girl like what what's that about because he literally
said I was like why is it always like this is making me feel uncomfortable and he was like yeah it's just really he's
like it's easy it's easier wow and I was like wow you really just you just gave that just right up like just I don't
want to have to work for the cheating no it's so true but they [ __ ] worked for
this I mean they hid that or tried to hide this [ __ ] for months and months and
months and months they'll work to continue it but they don't want to work to have to get it started
I just and Sandoval did not work to get this started I mean well yeah Rachel was
ready and willing to start this whole thing and the fact that he had the [ __ ] audacity to blame it on
Ariana like oh she if she had just followed me what if she just followed me what about that thing that you build
throughout a nine-year relationship called trust one of my favorite parts and don't worry we'll get to the case
but we just gotta spout this out if one of my favorite Parts was that it definitely was Ariana's fault because
she was just never in a place to for him to tell her that he was cheating on her
for seven months The Vibes were never right but he literally said she was just never open to hearing it I'm sorry when
are you open to hearing that your partner of almost 10 years has been having an affair with your one of your
best friends for seven months when will you ever be in a place of like you know what I'd love to hear that let's sit
down and chat I'm really open to hearing something catastrophic today so let's sit down and you can just tell me
whatever you want and then just like one more small thing and then we'll get on with it him like her trying to talk to
him and him just like taking the longest [ __ ] pause to take a sip of that drink
because he had to think of what he was saying next because he just can't are you he can't human and also I feel like
he had to get like an advertising moment in there we're advertising right now well and he just he doesn't know how to
human like he had to like take a minute and be like how do I human in this moment so you know unreal if you don't
watch guys get on it get on it peacock has um a whole like playlist basically of
the most important episode oh there you go watch I don't think that would work but I
think they would catch on to that one but you know you never know yeah you know but yeah so Vanderpump aside I
didn't think I'd have to say that Scandal oh my goodness here's another Scandal for you cheaters everywhere
theme of the episode today is cheater cheaters um this is part two of the Pam smart Greg smart series it's not really
a series it's just a two-parter party but when we left off in part one we got all the Yucca details about Pam and
Billy's um quote-unquote relationship it's hard for me to call it a relationship because um she's an adult
and he's a child yeah so that's hard they're crime we heard about that uh we heard about Pam and her husband Greg's
relationship becoming way more toxic and finally how she asked her teenage lover
at this point I believe he's 16 year old Billy Flynn to kill her husband oh so if
you don't remember from part one let me just give you like a quick little recap the plan was for
Billy to go into the house through the basement Pam was going to leave that basement door unlocked Billy would wait
there for Greg to get home he would shoot him and Stage the scene to be a robbery and remember Pam would be like
she would get a whole Alibi out of this because she would be away at some kind of school board meeting okay like we
said in part one Billy had um no gun no car no license and he also wasn't quite sure how he felt about murdering a human
wow so the first time Pam asked him he couldn't go through with it but like we know she lost it on him but at the very
end of part one we heard that Billy had another quote-unquote opportunity because there was another school board
meeting that Pam was going to be away at so now let's get into exactly how Pam Billy and some of Billy's friends
actually did carry out their plan to commit murder so if you remember from part one two of
Billy's best friends were J.R and Patrick uh who was known as Pete and they were the ones who liked to work on
uh junk cars together in JR's front yard yes they were the first best friends that Billy made when his family had
moved to Seabrook three years earlier and they were both very instrumental in helping Billy get through life when his
father died their families all knew them as like the Three Musketeers they did literally everything together in fact
there wasn't a lot that they wouldn't have done for each other oh and that statement was about to be taken to the
next level uh-oh uh so the first time Billy brought up the idea you know the one about killing a whole ass man to his
friends was the the first or second week of April okay can't be like too short but he told his two friends that there
would be a lot in it for them once the worst part was done which he said obviously was killing Greg they could
take any valuables that they wanted from the house oh fantastic yeah Silver Linings yeah woohoo so one of afternoon
Ralph Welch who I mentioned it in part one he had been staying with JR okay uh he like got kicked out of his house so
he was staying at the LA time house he had a cousin over J uh Ralph did that ended up eavesdropping on a conversation
between Billy Pete and Jr about the murder oh damn they're sloppy so rather than like contact authorities or tell
someone the cousin who's Rey Ray Fowler Ray Fowler just decided he wanted in on it like instead of going to anybody and
being like hey they're gonna kill someone he was like oh yeah like can I get it what can I get out of like what's
up wow everybody yeah a piece of [ __ ] how I always wonder how we say it every time how do these people
find each other it's so wild to me it really is now Rey was a few years older than Billy and his friends uh Ray was
18. he already had way more than his fair share of run-ins with the police and the most recent was uh his four
month four month stay at the Rockingham County House of Corrections he had already served time oh okay yeah no big
deal he said he was most interested in the burglary and he would help with the murder if he had to but oh okay he was
really just there to burglar burglarize the house yeah absolutely now that he had a full team assembled though Billy
was like okay like I guess we should start looking for a weapon so that we can carry out this murder now a lot of
the kids involved thought that finding the gun would be the easiest part of their plan I don't really know why we
should be able to do that that's why but they were surprised at what a hard time
they were having so that's when they decided that they should find a large hunting knife as a backup plan a large
hunting knife as a backup plan your backup plan is to stab this man hand-to-hand combat with a hunting knife
like and you're worried about shooting him like you can tell that these are just kids
kids like they're like are not developed it's wild so yeah they they decided to look for a
large hunting knife as a backup plan but you know they were still going to look for a gun now while the other boys kept
on trying their different connections to find a gun Billy went to Pam and he was
like Hey we're still having trouble looking for a car to use since you know none of us have a license
and she was like oh my God that's fine I have a Honda CRX and you guys can use it
I'll park it behind the building on the night of the school board meeting I'll leave the key in the ignition take off
as soon as you get there okay no problem yeah So the plan did come to fruition for the
first time in mid-april Billy packed a duffel bag of dark clothing that he was going to change into and the four boys
Billy Pete Ray and Jr loaded into Pam's car which was parked behind the building
like she said it was going to be and they started making their con their way to the condo in Derry but as they were
driving Billy was getting way more anxious the closer they got he's starting to freak the [ __ ] out he didn't
want to go through with the murder anymore and he actually started giving Rey Fowler the wrong directions so that
they would get lost it's like my guy just stop like you don't want to do this and don't have anything in the world is
telling you not to including your own conscience which apparently you have seriously
so some so they did end up getting lost but somehow Ray finally did figure out his way to the condo but when they got
there Greg had already gotten home so already the plan was [ __ ] and so they felt like they had missed their window
so they headed back to Hampton also I can't help but think of Greg in that moment like just carrying out his
normal night in his own home having no idea how close he was to the people that were gonna murder him that's what's
crazy to me is he had no idea these kids were driving around just waiting and like and that they literally the plan
was in motion right like they got to his condo and they very well would have been
inside had he not gotten home before they got there that's so sad it's so sad it's just so scary yeah now when Billy
went to Pam and explained what happened she was just the same as last time probably worse absolutely furious with
him she was like if you love me as much as you said then you would stop making excuses you'd follow through she went
with the whole I don't know if we should be together anymore if you can't do this
for me wow what a piece of [ __ ] yeah a piece of [ __ ] this is the second time
now that she's done this so finally Billy broke down and he said next time I won't fail
oh my God bail like no you're failing if you're murdering someone that's a big old failure like go down the right path
here Billy and that's walk away it's so sad to see how many times he almost did but she brought him right back into her
[ __ ] Tangled one she knew that what that he could be manipulated when he was so the next time came a few weeks later
on May 1st when Pam was once again scheduled to be at a school board meeting so p and Jr agreed to help a
second time but now they decided that they wanted to be paid wow so not only did they want the valuables at the house
they wanted payment so Billy went to Pam about this and she was like okay I'll give them a thousand dollars each but
I'm gonna pay it out in installments of fifty dollars per week so it doesn't seem suspicious
oh yeah you paying these two kids for literally no reason at all is not suspicious yeah that would be suspicious
yeah it's just the amount that's all that's crazy you're insane so otherwise the murder was just to move forward like
Pam had planned all along now in the days leading up to the Murder She made sure that they weren't gonna [ __ ] it up
this time she drove around the neighborhood with Billy and Cecilia pointing out where they should park the
car so that they wouldn't be noticed sneaking into the condo and Jr agreed to take one of his
father's guns to use but they still planned on bringing the knife with them just in case
and this time they were taking j.r's grandmother's car oh man they drove in grosser and grocer
they drove a Nana's car to commit murder so in the morning of May 1st Greg went to work he did some paperwork returned a
couple phone calls and then he ducked out of the office early the reason he left early was because he was going to
be having dinner with a few clients that evening but in the meantime he went to his
parents house he played with his little niece chatted with his parents fixed a flat tire and then went off to all his
appointments so it was 8 30 at night by the time he finished up with his clients
and headed back home to Derry and by that time all the arrangements had been made Pam had left the basement door
unlocked and she told the joy the boys where all the jewelry were was all the valuables told them exactly where they
could find everything damn and she said the rest of the details she didn't want to know oh okay I don't want to know I
was like but you do know this entire thing from beginning to end yeah and I'll let you do it I'll let you deal
with it and live with that yeah but I don't want to know the details yeah [ __ ]
you so it was still light out when they all arrived in Derry so they drove around a
little bit before Jr parked the car in a shopping plaza near Misty Morning Drive
Billy and Pete sat in the back seat they were tap excuse me taping their fingers
so that they wouldn't leave fingerprints they taped their fingers Jesus then Billy loaded the 38 revolver that Jr had
taken from his dad's collection and once the sun went down they Billy and Pete the two of them crept around the back
side of the condo until they found the door that led to Greg and Pam's unit the basement door
no they made their way inside Billy had to chase around the dog who was barking and growling and he was like ah get the
[ __ ] out of my house but like that Billy got him into the basement and this is
like a tiny dog I said yeah it's a what is it a shitzu I was gonna say it's a little guy exactly so then once the dog
was out of the way they headed upstairs they ripped apart the couple's bedroom Pete threw everything of value into a
suit a pillowcase that he'd taken from their bed wow and then they did the same thing on the first floor they turned
over side tables lamps just grabbed whatever they thought was valuable Pete grabbed a knife from the kitchen and cut
open multiple pillows on the couch and just like spread the stuffing out across the living room floor I guess for uh
dramatic effect I was like what was the point of that yeah like was that just for fun like I
don't think robbers slice pillows no I mean I don't know but maybe it's weird so once they felt like they had
sufficiently ransacked the house Billy and Pete sat in the dark just waiting for Greg to get home and as they waited
they talked about the best way to subdue him when he finally did walk in the door
Billy thought that it might be a good idea to wait in the closet and jump out when Greg finally walked in
or he suggested that maybe they should throw a towel over his head when he arrived to like disorient this man walks
into his house and they throw a towel over his head they're just sitting there deciding like what they're gonna do now
finally they settled on a strategy Pete would wait behind the door and surprise Greg when he walked in and then Billy
would turn off all the lights and close the door now a few minutes after they settled on
their plan they watched Greg's truck pull into the driveway so in the excitement and anxiety that
they were having Billy and Pete's positions got switched and Billy ended up behind the door okay so Greg walked
in the front door he flicked on the hall light and called out to the dog everything was eerily silent for a few
seconds and then Billy jumped out from behind the door and grabbed Greg by his shoulders so obviously he's like stunned
so he yells out and he pulls back hard but before he could get away Pete rushes over and he rushes up behind Greg and
pushes him to the floor then he turns off the lights and closes the door now when he turned back Billy
and Billy had Greg on the floor in front of the stairs just beating him in the face while Greg was just trying to block
any of the blows this man just walked into his house into his home to this chaos after a full day of work after
spending time with his family earlier just being a normal [ __ ] diet so Billy's beating the [ __ ] out of him
so Pete rushes over and grabs Greg by the hair and slams his head into the wall they like attacked him oh my God
and Pete screams at him get down on your knees and he lunged forward slightly with the knife in his hand to make Greg
do what he wanted to say so Greg did as he was told and he said just don't hurt me dude oh my God he repeatedly asked
about the dog like where's the dog where's the dog oh and Pete finally told him nobody had hurt the dog and then
Pete demanded that Greg take off his wedding ring and give it to them ew and Greg said I can't give it to you my wife
would kill me so he had obviously no idea that his wife had orchestrated this whole thing
and he's thinking about her getting mad at him oh my God up until the very end which I'm sorry that tells you exactly
who Pam was that he was like he is his whole life is being threatened right now and he's like I can't give you this ring
she'll get mad at me even if it's me giving it to robbers like wow damn that should tell you everything you need to
know right there so telling like the horrific irony in that statement oh that's awful my wife would kill me like
that's really awful it's terrible and just him saying like don't hurt me and him saying like where's the where's the
dog like worrying about everything else around like I just oh that's like really
gut-wrenching that's the perfect word for it so they fumbled around with his wallet they were procrastinating until
there was finally nothing left to do but to kill him so from the moment they started talking about the the plan to
kill Greg Pete had been confident that he was going to be able to do it without a second thought Pete was like I can do
it he was boasting to his friends telling them that he was actually curious to know what it would be like Oh
shut the [ __ ] up he was saying he was looking forward to it uh these kind of idiots who like later or when you hear
that they're like yeah I'm looking forward to it's like I can't wait get so wrecked yeah
wrecked my guy like that's given dark-sided Sinister dark side but now he was faced with the
reality of actually murdering a human of course so things felt a little different
than he thought they might that's the thing I'm like you're disgusting for like play play acting like oh yeah I'm
actually looking forward to it it's like [ __ ] you dude okay yeah you're [ __ ] up
and now there's a man sitting in front of you on his knees begging for his life what are you gonna do exactly piece of
[ __ ] and he couldn't handle it later during the trial Pete would testify that Greg's comments about the wedding ring
and his excuse me his pleas for his life made him in that moment regret what they
were doing of course it did so you should have stopped you should have stopped and you should have said my guy
your wife sent us to do this and we don't want to do it I so imagine if they had done that so wish that the story
ended that way and she went away for like attempted murder or conspiracy that's the thing like this should have
been like these if these little boys and that's the worst part about this children yeah had the wherewithal or the
you know any kind of moral compass here to stop and go I can't do this I was sent here to kill
you and I don't want to do it and I was sent here by your wife so you need to get the [ __ ] out of this marriage and
you and we gotta go away like like we're so sorry that would be alive these kids
would be you know they would have gotten in trouble but then it wouldn't be what
they're in trouble for now and in the end they would have been the heroes of the story they would have saved his life
that's the thing they would have turned around and been the ones that sat there and went you know what what the [ __ ]
were we thinking agreeing to do this and they can take their consequences but it
wouldn't have been the consequences they get now it would have been we thought about it we had a we had a heart like
and to think now and to hear now that like that kid sat there and regretted it and before you were doing it but being
like I don't even want to be here but he still did it it's like my guy you had a
chance and you didn't take it so whatever the [ __ ] you got after that you deserve absolutely and it's so
frustrating absolutely what a frustrating story it really is it's it's just terrible yeah so in the moment when
Pete realized that he couldn't do it he looked to Billy and nodded his head in the direction of the revolver that was
in Billy's jacket pocket so Billy knew what that meant obviously he grabbed the gun from his pocket he pulled back the
hammer and held it right near Greg's head the three of them stood there Pete was
still gripping Greg by the hair and Billy was holding the man to excuse me holding the gun to the man's head for
what he would later say to a jury felt like a hundred years oh and Greg is just sitting there just sitting there with a
gun to his head he's gonna happen right because at that point he's probably like
are they even gonna do this are they just trying to scare me like what's going on here oh none Billy inhaled
deeply and before he pulled the trigger he said God forgive me baby God I I don't know him I don't know
much about him but I don't think he'll he's gonna forgive there is a God and you believe in that God that God does
not forgive you my friend I can tell you that much you just stuck a gun to some man's head like as his wife that you are
[ __ ] told you to that's not a real friend if he's gonna forgive you yeah I don't think that's something that just
gets written off in the book I'm also like did you just God are you there it's me Margaret in the middle of a murder
did you just God that's what you just did me like how dare you [ __ ] how dare you [ __ ] you like I'm not religious but
how [ __ ] dare you know me either that's just like disgusting to bring God into that situation is [ __ ] like what
a mockery that is it is absolutely or it feels like at least I would think so so
with the plan completed the bull uh the both of them ran for the back door Pete grabbed the pillowcase full of the
valuables and then they ran through the back door they jumped the railing on the
back porch and ran there was a big field behind the condo so they ran through that until they saw the headlights of
Jr's grandmother's car oh my God can you imagine if I was his grandma I'd be like
you have been written out of my will oh yeah and then some you've been written out of all the wills you've been written
out of my life you didn't even get your own will that's what I would say I'm revoking you're right you don't have one
nope I mean what do you really have at that point but the plan was for the other two boys to wait in the parking
lot until Billy and Pete returned but something had changed I think they got nervous so they were parked in a
different area than they should have been so both boys were falling over themselves as they were sprinting
through the grass until finally they got to the car and they heard themselves into the back seat and shouted for them
to drive now Billy and Pete changed in the back seat as they were just drove along the
back roads back to Seabrook they threw a ton of items of clothing out of the window as they drove but what didn't get
thrown out of the window went into the black devil or went into the duffel bag which they would ditch on the wood in
the woods on the way back okay I'm so excited I'm like he's so excited to tell the story yeah
so to cut the attention JR this is [ __ ] this is absolutely wild they were cutting the tension Jr and Rey started
singing shoe fly pie you fly it's like this song I looked it up it's really [ __ ] weird I was like
what even is that it's like a it's almost like a like like one of those songs like a like a
Shabbat kind of like a Shabbat I don't know how to describe this I need to look this up now it's very it's like old tiny
like what you would play at the Gilmore Girls dance along thing at the like dance Marathon yeah exactly so Billy was
like this made him feel better he was starting to smile it made my [ __ ] stomach turn and Pete actually got
Wicked pissed off at them for singing and was like shut the [ __ ] up like I don't want you to sing right now damn he
wanted to get the hell out of Derry and as far away from the condo as he possibly could
so Pam she got back home to Derry around 10 30 p.m once everything was done she of course pretended to be shocked and
horrified when she found Greg's Body neighbors could hear her screams from several houses away they said and it was
followed by her yelling help my husband my husband wow you piece of [ __ ] an actual monster so she ran to the house
next door and she said something was wrong with her husband and that they needed to call 9-1-1 like you know that
he's dead you just found him lying in a pool of his own blood at the bottom of your stairs
now Derry New Hampshire hamster at the time had a super low crime rate and homicides were like super out of the
ordinary oh so I I actually to drive that point home even further before Greg's murder there had been zero
murders in the town that year oh damn zero wow so when officers arrived and they found Greg lying face down just
beyond the front door still dressed in his gray suit and coat they were shocked yeah now by the time they got there his
skin had been bruised up completely and there was a bit of blood coming from his
nose one of the officers checked for a pulse but obviously they weren't able to find one
and another neighbor who was actually a medical assistant offered to do CPR because at this point they're not seeing
that he's been like shot yeah so the officer that hadn't found a pulse rolled Greg over onto his back and that was
when they saw the Bullet Hole on the top of his head and they were like yeah CPR
is not necessary anymore so to the responding officers the scene seemed like what Pam had hoped it would
like Greg came home found somebody robbing his house and had been killed by The Intruders yeah outside the condo it
was absolute chaos because Pam screams had drawn all the neighbors outside dozens of people were just crowding
around the area outside of the house so Pam asked that somebody called Judy and Bill who remember lived like five
minutes away in the same complex yep and whoever called them just said that Greg
was quote very very sick are you kidding me so they rush over there thinking like
oh no like he does he have a stomach bug like yeah like what's going on no so they threw on their coats over their
pajamas and they ran over but they got stopped by the police at the perimeter of the scene and Judy was like what the
[ __ ] is going on and Pam just told her I don't know I was at school there was a meeting like being
super theatrical like over the top but giving nothing so luckily she was interrupted but also not luckily the
front door opened and an officer stepped out of the house and it was then that Greg's parents saw his body lying on the
floor oh my God and the officer came out and told them we can't help him he's already dead oh so the case called for
the presence of the Derry Police Captain who at the time was Captain Loring Jackson now he arrived to the scene
after it had already been cleared completely he was a veteran detective luckily like thank goodness we have
somebody who knows what they're doing here seriously he had 24 years on the job between Massachusetts and New
Hampshire and he had seen every kind of crime you could possibly see yeah now the other officers on the scene
obviously weren't a seasoned so he started taking over and just divvying out tasks yeah he wanted to be sure that
everything was properly properly documented and that all the the evidence was collected and cataloged correctly
that was like a big thing for him okay which it always should be yeah now some officers went out to check the field
beyond the complex and just about a hundred yards from the smarts back uh deck area Sergeant Vincent Byron found a
large carving knife stuck into the ground oh [ __ ] they left that they left the
knife behind why like I'm glad they did but like I think they must have dropped it on the way is all I can think of wow
but then actually no because it was stuck in the ground that's what I mean like why would they shove it into the
ground and run I don't know if they just had too much between the valuables that
they had stolen it's like drop a valuable my friend right not the actual like other murder weapons seriously and
then so they found the knife in the ground out there but then a few feet away from that uh that Sergeant there
found pieces of cardboard and plastic from Pam's jewelry box so he's like what the [ __ ] this like happened here yeah so
by 2 30 that morning the Derry Police got joined by the New Hampshire State Police Major Crimes unit who went over
the house a second time like it had already been totally cleared and then they were like we're gonna clear it even
further yeah took more photos got more evidence and took notes on literally everything then another group of
officers started going around to the neighbors who were like really over all very unhelpful they hadn't seen much
yeah or heard much but it's like whatever so according to almost everybody they talked to Greg was quote a very private
individual someone they never really got to know during the 18 months he and his
wife had lived in Derry see that's why it's important to know your neighbors my friends my neighbors never talk to me my
neighbors and I had a barbecue the other night and or no last night and it was it
was wonderful I love this delightful yeah they'll be on the lookout for like any weird [ __ ] that's the thing like
know your neighbors because like it's it's a good thing to get to be friends with your neighbors because then they're
on your that [ __ ] see like it takes a village my friends and if everyone's looking out for each other no [ __ ] gets
past you I was just thinking about it and my neighbors don't really talk to me but they talk to Drew what do you think
that means I don't know what that means that's weird I'm offended I just think I'm like you know what if you have a
chance to have like a tight-knit little neighborhood if you happen to be in there do it man yeah because everybody's
on that text chain and everybody's like what the [ __ ] was that car who say who's
did you hear that noise like everyone's on it I love it there's like an app now too that you think there is like keep in
touch with your neighbors and like or even like people like beyond your neighbors are like in close proximity I
mean my neighbors just have a text chain I think it's called like next door or something yeah I think you're right Drew
has it maybe that's why they talk to him yeah I think we we just have a text chain and as soon as like I think like
somebody on an outside Street got their uh car broken into oh [ __ ] everyone [ __ ] knew that that by the morning
everyone was checking each other's cars if you weren't at your house like oh my God I love it it's great that's ideal I
was like neighbors well this was also a time which is crazy to think about before cameras yeah
exactly before people had doorbells so it's even more important back then like that's why it is very helpful if your
neighbors can be like yeah we know that person you know but it can be on the lookout for like something weird is
happening over there I might step in exactly that's the thing if you don't know your neighbors they're not gonna
feel comfortable doing that exactly which it sucks that this was the case where they just they didn't know each
other they just didn't communicate and not for any reason it doesn't sound seems like it didn't happen which 100 it
doesn't happen a lot of times so and I also make it happen try to I think this was kind of more of a time where like
you minded your own business yeah that's what I mean so Pam she was just as unhelpful to the
investigators but obviously more pointedly she explained that she got home she found Greg on the floor and she
said quote having watched television shows like rescue 9-1-1 she decided against touching the body and instead
just started screaming for help okay it's like okay like what why did you have to mention that sorry there's a
fruit fly I do remember how what a choke hold that show had on all of us though rescue 9-1-1 I don't think I ever
watched that no I think it was before your time it was rescue 9-1-1 and Unsolved Mysteries were like back to
back unsolved mystery and Rescue 911 was intense really yeah it was very intense
I reenacted 9-1-1 calls but you heard the 911 call it was like our everyone's first Venture into True Crime I believe
yeah yeah mine was Unsolved Mysteries and Forensic Files yeah yeah a good one a good one no so obviously we all say
all the time how you know people are going to react differently to trauma and grief yeah but there was something off
about Pam's Behavior in the minds of the detectives she like they were I think they kind of tried to put it in the back
of their minds the more and more they got through the investigation but it was still there yeah You observe
you look at it and say okay everyone Grieves differently but when compiled upon other evidence you go okay that is
a little strange right like you just hold it in the back of your head and just put it together with the other
weapons and then you find like the supporting things to try it together yeah so she was super calm and super
composed which was not really what anybody expected from a woman who had uh just found her husband murdered in their
home a few hours earlier yeah but you know okay everybody's different I suppose yeah Different Different Strokes
for different folks in this case not so much not so much to detective Barry chairwicks I believe is how you say it
Pam seemed more anxious than sad weird upset she was nervous and he noticed that her eyes would Dart around the room
at different times throughout the interview which is so telling because you know who else's eyes do that
scandivals that's true but anyway he tried to remind himself that you know people act differently in these
situations I'll dismiss it right now as just another strange reaction to death but it's in my head but I will note it
so the next day the State medical examiner confirmed that of course the cause of death was the single gunshot
wound To The Head and the he the medical examiner estimated that it had occurred
just an hour or two before Pam arrived home which was correct now the wound itself was ragged which suggested to the
medical examiner that Greg had been shot at close range with somebody holding the
gun very close to his head which was also true but what was strange was that there was no gunpowder residue on the
wound and there were small pieces of lead on the scalp which indicated that the bullet started to fragment before it
struck Greg huh and even stranger there was no blood spatter at the scene like you would expect with this kind of crime
so the medical examiner was trying to figure this out like how that could have happened and he felt like somebody had
placed a pillow oh my God I was literally just gonna say yeah they placed the pillow on his head exactly so
that's what they thought like they they took a pillow or some kind of soft thing
in between Greg's head and the barrel of the gun almost like a silencer yeah but they couldn't find anything at
the scene to support that theory there was no pillow with a hole through it huh so and sadly that question would never
be answered huh so I don't know if maybe they took the pillow with them and it was one of the things they threw out
maybe on the way but they never answered that question oh that's interesting it's
it is yeah that's really interesting but I would think that's probably I'm sure that's it yeah like I think they were
conniving enough to say I think they saw it in a movie you probably I think they
saw it in a movie or Pam saw it on Rescue 9-1-1 and reiterated and they did it yeah exactly
now so obviously the cause of death was not that surprising to anybody everybody
knew that Greg had been shot but what they wanted to know obviously was who killed Greg and why
so while authorities were combing through evidence Pam was super happy to entertain reporters oh I'm sure and she
had so many theories as to what happened she told the dairy news I'm absolutely convinced someone was burglar
burglarizing our house and Greg just walked in like gee whiz Pam what made you think that yeah was that uh the
robbery scene was it the entire robbery scene that you set up was it like that the missing valuables from your home
that you orchestrated the ransacked house like yeah she also told reporters that in the day since she had found her
husband dead she'd woken up at 6am every day and called the police for updates but said that they quote she said that
quote they haven't even sat down with everything yet which is not true and also it's like oh
now we're gonna [ __ ] all over the police even though you know you set up this whole thing up right like wow like these
police who have no who haven't handled a murder yeah this week this week this year this month this year anywhere
anytime like that never handle murders right and like you know you did it and you're still being like it's their fault
like who's like trying to play the victim oh and it wasn't a [ __ ] it wasn't only their fault she was also
pissed at the neighbors oh of course she said she found it hard to believe that none of her neighbors heard anything on
the night of the murder wow I'm like you or frustrated this whole this holy you are throwing everyone
under the bus when you're a [ __ ] murderer at heart like are you kidding me like okay gaslighter McGee wow she
literally told reporters quote I've heard their stereo before and I know they've heard mine I know a gunshot
isn't a common sound in Derry New Hampshire but I'd at least look out the window
wow like yeah they didn't hear a gunshot because you probably told your boy there
to [ __ ] silence it and it's like you're a murderer at heart like you just don't have one you just didn't want to
get in trouble for it and you thought you could get away with it by having someone else do it yep but if you're
setting someone else up to get murdered by someone else you are a murderer absolutely like you are capable of that
absolutely and you're sitting here like saying that the neighbors are at fault when you know what you did the Neighbors
didn't hear anything so [ __ ] them and the police aren't working on this yet so
[ __ ] them damn like what yeah it's everybody else's fault she's crazy so uh police captain Loring was uh not pleased
to say the least that Pam was talking to the Press yeah because he had personally
told her not to Jesus he was like can you stop doing that please you think she would listen to them too to try to play
along with the yeah very Cooperative instead of making waves I don't know that they look at you a little heavier I
don't think she was capable of cooperating I think it's it in her mind it was her world and she was
orchestrating it how she saw fit man the spotlight was on her and she couldn't she couldn't help herself yup she
absolutely loved it so the investigators in Derry uh had been working on the case obviously even
though Pam said they weren't and they told her sharing any kind of info with the Press could be really damaging or
could even compromise their case yeah so they're like why the [ __ ] are you trying
to ruin our case lady and Lauren excuse me Lauren Jackson would later say that Pam was very defensive about talking to
the Press she said she didn't want to hear anything bad about the Press because she was one of them oh because
remember she wanted to work in the media and she did work in media shut up also you're not a reporter you're a volunteer
for project self-esteem yes humble thyself humble thyself [ __ ] you Pam but Jackson found her comment about being
one of the press very strange it really wasn't the only thing about her that he was gonna find strange as the
investigation went on and he still he was like her behavior it's [ __ ] weird for instance when she was allowed to go
back to the house after the scene had been cleared she started complaining about what a mess the investigators had
made in her home she also stepped right onto the bloodstain from where Greg's Body had been found and had the audacity
to ask them who was going to clean that up wow stepped on the bloodstain and said
who's gonna clean this up what what caused it you made this like you caused that and then you're mad that
we trashed your house trying to figure out who did this like what the what because the reason like this is all
doubly Triple E quadruply [ __ ] up because you're like you know that she did this yeah like she's causing all
these problems and bitching and moaning when she did this she made this all happen wow and like you're in I don't
know what it is like you're gonna ask who's gonna clean this up you orchestrated this and you can't even
[ __ ] clean it up that's the thing you wanted this baby clean it up if this was
a real like a real thing where like somebody had come in and robbed their house and killed her husband yeah who's
gonna clean up who's gonna clean that up totally because like you that's I can't
I never knew before like really getting into researching True Crime and all that
and learning about like aftermath ink and all that stuff and like 24 you know whatever that like victims are left yeah
to call someone to hire a whole team to come and clean up after their loved ones
like you have to pay for that like you have to pay for it like a lot of people don't know that and it's I never knew
that until we started this podcast and I'm sure a lot of people when it happens to them they don't know that no so they
come back to the house and they're like who the [ __ ] is going to clean this like
I can't clean this so if that was the case it's like yeah ask be like I don't know what's happening here but that's
the thing knowing that she did it it's like you need to clean this up you clean like get to work oh so
what was shitty was that the crime scene itself was kind of just as unhelpful as
the neighbors and Pam like they were hitting a lot of dead ends yeah obviously it was obvious that somebody
had ransacked the house but it didn't seem like your regular robbery so they're like they're confused here
because they're like yeah it seems like this happened but it's off a little bit yeah it's like disorganized actually
it's strangely organized they thought they were like what like it seems like there's uh differences in the ways that
some areas were trashed like some are more organized than others and so the investigators theorized that there were
two Intruders I was gonna say because I would think that would be like multiple people right off the bat exactly there
were also some more strange tidbits on the first floor of the home Greg's ring and his car keys were found underneath
his body and his wallet which still had all his credit cards tucked was was tucked safely away uh it was found by
his legs so they're like they didn't steal his car they didn't take his ring and his wallet full of his credit cards
is right here and why do they have him take off the ring I don't know like because my initial thought was that
my initial thought with that and Maybe I'm Wrong I Don't Know was that that was a an order from Pam as proof
that they had done it I could see that as they were supposed to bring that ring back that's what I assumed
was the like whole thing I thought she was like bring me that ring so I know you actually did it well she would have
known they actually did it when she got home so that like she wouldn't have had to do that I forgot that they didn't
meet before that like they didn't meet before she went home no she just got the car they got the car for where she had
parked it and then the whole thing was that she was gonna come home and find this okay that makes more sense so what
I think with the ring is that they probably I think Billy probably was like take it off it repeats I'd take it off
because like you know he's [ __ ] Pam now yeah that's true and then I think maybe in the haste of everything they
forgot to take the ring yeah because it's like why did you do that because I think they had fully planned on taking
that ring they just were stupid because like that's like what a last humiliation
for Greg right to make him remove that ring and then to leave it it's like wow you just did that just to do that like
that's even more [ __ ] up it's adding insult to it yeah it's just like that's really that's really gross it's [ __ ]
but so that's the thing investigate are like okay so there's clearly two Intruders but like they both suck like
that's weird what the hell very strange and they started thinking if somebody was going into a home to take everything
of value so much so that they were willing to commit a murder in the middle of it why wouldn't they take the most
valuable things yeah that's weird like even the car yeah it doesn't make sense so the investigators they still felt
like the theory of a robbery gone wrong wasn't a bad one but it had other flaws even beyond the valuables Left Behind
yeah it's like more nuanced it was going to start kind of like Falling by the wayside the whole their whole Theory
again why would these robbers even if they weren't the most experienced choose a time to rob a densely populated condo
when everyone was home and awake yeah that was another thing that they were like why if why would they do that and
they also reasoned that most burglars even Petty thieves they don't usually bring along a firearm and they're
usually not willing to kill someone yeah they just want to steal [ __ ] and leave
and if for some reason they did go against all of that and kill someone again why wouldn't they take the most
valuable things when they had already gone that far yeah exactly that's the thing you better take all the valuable
[ __ ] right so between Pam strange Behavior obvious enjoyment of the spotlight and the very many unusual
aspects of their crime scene some think about this murder wasn't adding up yeah but they they were struggling because it
wasn't adding up but then it wasn't leading them in the direction of the truth yeah
now back to back to Pam as far as she knew she had planned every aspect of Greg's murder perfectly and she almost
did which is scary yeah but what she didn't plan for was the impulsive stupidity of teenagers oh yes because in
the months before the murder Billy had told a good number of his friends about his sexual relationship with Pam and
most of the time they weren't even doing much to hide their Affair in public and in the weeks they had spent planning
the murder Billy had told those same friends the plot to kill Pam's husband so that they could be together
and he told most of those friends that what he believed to be true based on what Pam had told him Greg was abusive
toward her he was going to be the hero that saved her so he's just spilling the beans Left Right everywhere of course he
is he's a child yeah and as we know some of the people who he told about the plan
had become participants yeah and the ones who didn't they just kind of thought he was bluffing and trying to
seem tough which like we've been there we've done that yeah everybody stop but the day after the murder Billy and his
friends were back in school oh my God they just go back to high school they just went back to high school I'm pretty
sure it was like their junior year oh my God so and before his first class even started Billy was telling his friend Sal
Parks about what he'd done immediately now Billy and Sal had talked about the murder plot a number of times before
that day Billy had even shown Sal's sketches of the condo's floor plan that he made based on Pam's description wow
but um for some reason Sal never thought Billy was gonna go through with it guys you know you can't but that morning
when Sal asked Billy if he had gone through with the plan Billy nervously confirmed that yup they had killed him
the night before Oh my God now later that day Billy bought Sal lunch with the money that he'd stolen from Greg's
wallet just to prove it to him [ __ ] up and by the uh by the end of that afternoon he had told pretty much almost
all of his friends the gnarly details about what had happened now Sal was worried now that he knew all the details
he could be considered an accomplice so he was like I'm just gonna keep my mouth
shut about this entire thing like I'm not gonna say anything I I'm still like reeling about him buying lunch with
Greg's money with Greg's money yeah this is just wild now just like Billy Cecilia
Pierce she knew this whole thing had happened at this point and she had been an instrumental part of being a part of
it playing it so she found it difficult to keep what she knew to herself and on the morning of the murder Pam had
confided in Cecilia that the boys were going to follow through the plan that night so the next day a guidance
counselor came up to Cecilia because she knew that Cecilia had been close with Pam she called her into a meeting and
let her know what had happened to Pam's husband oh my God so Cecilia did her best to fake shock but later that night
when she got to her shift at Papa Gino's the secret was becoming too overwhelming
for her and she ended up confiding in a co-worker about it she told her co-worker Cindy butt what had happened
to Greg and Cindy said didn't you tell me about a friend that was planning on having their husband killed oh my God
and Cecilia said oh [ __ ] I forgotten I had told you that couldn't even keep track of the people
they had told what I forgot that I [ __ ] oh my gosh I told you that I forgot that I told you that
oh my God also imagine eating a [ __ ] Pizza that those two women had made for you and that convert that conversation
happened above your glorious Pizza I would not be happy hello Papa Gino's is not my fave oh I hate papa gina well
it's the big tires I mean you can eat it all you want I'm no hate to pop I mean a
lot of people love Papa chinos yeah anyways so Cecilia explains the rest of the story to Cindy and Cindy suggested
it would be best to stay out of it entirely she was like I don't think you need to tell more people about this I
think you need to shut your mouth yeah she basically said that if Cecilia had told her about it then other people
could definitely find that out and one of them might go to the police so she should shut her [ __ ] mouth my God but
at the same time Cindy there apparently didn't take her own advice and a couple weeks later she had some friends over
her apartment for drinks and she told all of them the entire story about Pam Billy and Cecilia
so there were two women there finally some people with scents in this [ __ ] town and they were absolutely shocked so
one of them 39 year old Louise Coleman went home and called the police finally finally finally somebody has contacted
the appropriate people in this situation finally someone calls the police and says Jesus shit's weird Jesus Christ she
would later tell a jury Louise there quote someone was killed and that bothered me to hear what I had heard I
figured any little bit was gonna help him because at that point police didn't know much of anything like I told him
it's hearsay if it helps it helps if it don't it don't but I feel like I did my civic duty which I'm like yes Louise you
did yeah okay thank you pat pat Louise now like the bad game of telephone it was though Louise Coleman's tip to the
dairy police got a lot of the facts wrong but luckily it was still enough to point investigators towards Cecilia
Pierce so detective sherwick's chair excuse me paid a visit to Cecilia and joined by
her parents they sat down for a formal interview and Cecilia told the detective that yup she did know Pam she met her
through an internship in the media center but she said I know nothing about the murder I insist I I know absolutely
nothing so then Pam is approached and she told detectives oh my gosh Cecilia would not
have anything to do with this of course not it's like yeah but what about you yeah but for her part she seemed Pam
there pretty unconcerned about the fact that investigators were circling closer and closer to her and her group of
[ __ ] teenage Misfits that she put together yeah it's like no one noticed this [ __ ] no one noticed it and now even
as they're encroaching upon them she's not worried about it no so by mid-may she had gotten a large sum
from Greg's life insurance and she seemed in a hurry to spend it she bought clothes and shoes for Cecilia in an
obvious to all of us attempt to buy her silence yep then she went electronic shopping with Billy and his friends my
God she also used some of the money to buy herself a new car she put down the first and last month's rent on a condo
in Hampton closer to Billy excuse me this is closer to Billy's mother's house I was just gonna say this
is so disgusting [ __ ] so she was doing her best to rein in this group of teens
and for the most part she was successful Cecilia would later say she was she just
really was convinced that no one was going to listen to the boys over an adult like she thought she was gonna
have everybody hook like that Sinker of course but what wasn't in her control was the people that the kids had already
confessed to and Louise Coleman's tip had pointed the investigators in the right direction but it would be a tip
from one of the few honest teams in the circle that would finally break the case
so remember Ralph Welch Rey's cousin so Ray was the one that drove the car yep and Ralph had nothing to do with it he
was just staying at JR's house yes he hadn't heard about this yeah so he had known about Pam and Billy's relationship
since it started Ralph there okay he was like I just said one of the kids living
in the household and since he was a close friend of Jr and Billy he was privy to all the information about what
had been going on but he was just trying to keep his head down and stay out of any trouble he had gotten into trouble
before and he was like trying to stay on a narrow path okay so he heard about the
murder and about his friend's involvement but he was still having trouble believing that they had anything
to do with it he was like you guys are [ __ ] like you didn't do this but by early June all the talk and
boasting from J.R Billy and Ray had started to get to him and all the rumors about Billy killing Greg started to seem
more likely than they had to him before so he confronted them he said did you do this and at first
they denied any involvement but eventually they told him the whole story thinking he wasn't going to tell anybody
so by the time they finished telling the story though he pretty much told them he
didn't know what he was going to do but it wasn't something he was going to keep
to himself he was like you guys [ __ ] up yeah like I you should I'm gonna be honest like shit's gonna go down he's
like I don't know exactly what I'm gonna do but I'm gonna do I'm gonna do something though so the next day uh
Ralph tried to make Pete Randall leave the last time house where he was staying okay so like two two guys here getting
in a fight yeah so they started fighting even more and it got physical okay they
beat the [ __ ] out of each other for a few minutes Pete ended up storming off with Jr and Ralph oh excuse me with J.R
and Ralph went inside the house where Jr's mom wanted to know why he was all [ __ ] up like he obviously looked like
he'd been in a fight yeah and Ralph just blurted out to her they used Vance's gun
to kill someone Vance's Jr's dad oh so Diane the mother obviously uh she had a few follow-up questions and once Ralph
had gotten through the whole story including the part where J.R stole one of his guns dads to kill Greg Vance Jr's
father so Jr's father what sorry Vance Jr's father okay went to check his gun collection there's a lot of players here
okay so sure enough he found that his 38 revolver had been cleaned and he was not
the one to have cleaned it so he took the gun straight to the Seabrook Police and the rest of the story slowly started
to fall into place now remember his son stole this gun and this Dad I have to say like he did like
that's really heroic and like what a [ __ ] Sophie's choice to make there absolutely like oh my God my kid might
be involved in killing somebody but I have to take this information to the police yeah it's like you can't just
ignore it and hope it goes away he's one of the things yeah to be honest I mean we've seen instances absolutely we have
so as soon as she heard the police were looking for her son Ray Fowler's mother dragged him to the police department
Another Hero here there you go and once he was there he wasted no time telling the detectives the entire story he
didn't spare any details but of course he passed all the blame on his friends and he said he had only gone along for
the ride he had no idea they were gonna kill someone um he knew everything survey says yeah ding ding ding no so
when they learned that Ralph fully intended to go to the police the other boys fled to Connecticut and Pete's and
Pete's father's car they plan to continue driving South possibly to Mexico or to South America but Pete
called home to let his mom know they were safe and his dad got on the phone and he had like he didn't know about the
murder yet but he was like why the [ __ ] did you steal my car and you better turn
it right the [ __ ] around yeah hell yeah Pete's dad was not the kind of guy you
wanted to go against so they all turned around and headed back to Seabrook because daddy said bring my car back
home oh my God like that's where we're at you guys that's the age group we're at the lack of frontal lobe development
is really highlighted yeah they thought oh yeah I'll just steal my dad's car and
drive it to Mexico and he will yes I'm sorry what I'm sorry what sorry so once they got back home each of the
boys struggled to tell their parents what had happened they were obviously leaving out all kinds of important
details they were using pseudonyms here and there and they were peppering the story with lies to minimize their own
involvement now Vance listened to his son's version of the events and even though he still
didn't understand what had actually happened or how Jr had even gotten himself involved in this he went back to
the Seabrook Police Department to let the detectives know that it seemed like all of the boys were involved in this
murder in one way or the other including his own son that's a hard hit so on the
morning of June 11 1990 a clerk from the Derry Police Department arrived in Seabrook carrying warrants for the
arrest of Billy Pete Ray and J.R they knew that their arrests were on the horizon so they all scattered and they
spent most of the day just trying to avoid the police oh man now meanwhile Dairy police captain Jackson wanted to
have another talk with Cecilia Pierce I think he saw that she was a bit of a oh yeah 100 he saw that as a weak point so
he called Cecilia's mother and Cecilia's mother said she was out for the day but
she was going to try to track her down she's like oh [ __ ] what are we involved
in here yeah so Mrs Eaton that's Cecilia's mother she figured her daughter would actually be at Pam's
house because that's how much time they were spending together that's so weird man I don't know if Cecilia's mom didn't
realize that Pam was like an authority figure and maybe just thought she was like an older friend because she's not
that much older than Cecilia that's true that's very true I think she just didn't
have all the facts yeah no I I'm like no hate to like her parents they're not even thinking about it it's just wild
but when you think about it afterwards you're like oh God this is the relationship with like too much so Pam
picks up the phone and she was like oh Cecilia actually just left but let me go collect her and I'll bring her to the
police but at that point Mrs Eaton had had it up to here officially officially she was like I am real [ __ ] tired of
this strange hold that you seem to have over my daughter stay out of it and I will track down my own daughter
so later she found uh Cecilia at a friend's house and Miss Eaton called Pam and was like just so you know we're
going to the police station now Pam yelled at Mrs Eaton on the phone and said don't take her over until I get
there let me go with you and we can all go together I am a victim here I have a right to know everything that the police
know and they're not telling me anything I'm getting tired of being treated this
way and I want to know what's going on oh man Mama You're a murderer man like girly girl she is reckless also who the
[ __ ] do you think you are yelling at Mrs Eaton so obviously she's trying to stay
on top of things and she wants to make sure Cecilia is not going to turn on her but Pam was telling the truth a little
bit there the Derry Police had actually stopped giving her any information about
this case of course they did because she kept going to the Press every time they
gave her an update so they're like okay if you want to paint us this way we'll act this way so in that moment Mrs Eaton
didn't care about Pam smart or her relationship with the Derry Police she was like if you want to meet us at the
station meet us at the station but we're going there now yeah she's like I don't
know I don't have time for this so they get to the station Cecilia continues to insist to the police that she knows
nothing about the murders she tried to even seem like she was disinterested in being there
now Captain Jackson realized that Cecilia wasn't really grasping the severity of the situation she was
involved in oh yeah so he was like you know what let me [ __ ] scare her so he starts making threats of charging her
with interfering with the investigation he's like you want to play that game let's go but at that point Cecilia's mom
didn't know that's where this was headed so she put a stop to the interview she was like no we're done here yeah now in
a private conversation with Cecilia's mother Jackson explained that he was simply like playing bad cop he was just
trying to get Cecilia to say what she knew yeah of course and he was like we know that she doesn't have anything to
do with the murder so we don't think she does or the murder excuse me so Cecilia's mom was like yep I get it I
still feel like she's gone through enough tonight and we're not really going to get anywhere here so I will
talk to her at home and try to get out the truth and I'll like I'll get back to you
so they were like okay yeah and I think they knew like they weren't going to get
very far at that point but on their way out of the station Pam had been sitting there the whole time waiting for them at
the station and she went right up to them and was like what's going on I need to know everything
God she is like she just is she doesn't give a [ __ ] she's like a fly attracted
to a big pile of [ __ ] she can't stay away so Cecilia was like nope nothing's going on they asked me the same
questions that they did before but she said um like don't worry about it basically
yeah so that night Diane last time uh late late time excuse me Jr's mother she was like hunting them down because she
knows that the police are looking for these kids so she finds them hiding out in an arcade in Salisbury Massachusetts
and she was able to convince them to turn themselves in but these [ __ ] were hiding out at an
arcade of course they were it but it just like of course the story even more that
you're like oh my God these are literal children and they thought they could just avoid the police by playing a nice
game of Pac-man yeah what is wrong with you absolutely why like you're just gonna play Pinball to get through the
fact that you just murdered somebody absolutely there I literally can't that's so messy I quite literally cannot
but she was able to convince themselves and they turned themselves on so news of the arrest bro arrest broke a
day later but because everybody arrested at that point was a juvenile there weren't a lot of details available
and as far as the public was concerned it seemed like Greg's murder had been solved they were like oh okay they got
the people that did it yeah they were like oh hey fantastic now investigators in Derry on the other hand were
convinced that there was still a lot more to this story than they were being told and literally all of them were like
yeah Pam has something to do with it this random band of teenagers didn't just come up with this plan by
themselves that's the thing it's like you really think they just came up with this and
did it and like what would the motive well exactly that's the thing so the day after the arrests were made Pam called
Loring Jackson she can't she can't stay away my God she's like asking to be caught oh my God at this point legally
yes so she calls him and she's like can I just please have any kind of update she said I'm afraid I know these kids
and then she said am I in any danger and Jackson was like no Pam you're not in danger she's reaching out to ask if
she is in danger when she knows she set them up to kill her like that is like a whole other level I I don't know what
she has as far as like personality disorders go but there's a couple in there I won't armchair diagnose but yeah
the manipulative conniving gaslighting going on there it's hilarious there's some stuff it's a layered situation but
this is great I [ __ ] love this so she's like am I in any danger and he goes he's like no Pam you're not and she
goes how can you be so sure and he goes because I know and so do you oh click it's heating up in here baby mic drop
moment so this while the State Attorney General's office worked to get approval to try all the teens as adults that's
what they were working on the media made their way to Seabrook they were shoving
microphones and cameras and faces of anybody even remotely involved and then Pam was doing her absolute best to just
play the devastated Widow betrayed by these students she had hoped to help in Project self-esteem wow and she knew
that the arrest of the four boys definitely put her at risk like she was starting to get nervous here but what
she didn't realize was that her good old buddy Cecilia Pierce would actually be the biggest risk because remember police
still aren't done with her no so in the week or so since her last interview with
the police everything around Cecilia had changed her friends had been arrested for murder Pam seemed more anxious than
ever to keep Cecilia close by and worse than that the Derry Police definitely knew that Cecilia knew something she
wasn't saying damn she later told reporters every night when I was in bed I'd get up like every five minutes when
I heard a car pull in seeing if it was the police coming to get me oh man which I'm like honestly good because yeah you
knew a lot and you didn't say none of them were ready for this nope none of them so the position she's starting to
feel like this is impossible and she was like I know that everything about the situation was wrong and I've been
manipulated by Pam yeah and she was like pan in in the past she was like oh my gosh Pam has been nothing but good to me
and now I'm faced with this decision to betray her yeah so she's sick over it but then at the same time the angel on
the side is like you need to do the right you need to betray Pam exactly so Cecilia's unwavering loyalty
to Pam obviously was a part of Pam's plan all along that's why she spent so much time building trust between her and
these kids and that's obviously why she was testing that loyalty in small ways leading up to the murder like we saw
but in the time since the arrests Cecilia had noticed a very large change in Pam's behavior and she was starting
to question everything she thought about their relationship in a later interview
with hard copy she told them Cecilia did her lover was in jail and she didn't care how was I supposed to believe that
she was actually my friend I could hang myself knowing what I know and she'd be relieved because that's one less person
who could tell wow so she started to realize yeah and then to make matters worse everyone
had been treating Cecilia so nicely since the arrest thinking that she was a victim of this oh yeah and she's like
[ __ ] I know everything yeah so between the kindness of her family and friends and Pam's increasing coldness towards
Billy Cecilia finally broke down and went to her mom and just got started so obviously that got passed along to
the detectives and the detectives in Derry they were like great this story confirms what we know yeah Billy and
Pete did the actual killing but it was Pam behind the murder of her husband yeah but the problem was now how the
[ __ ] were they gonna prove that she wasn't there and there's no like there's no text messages or anything like that
so they're considering their options but ultimately they decided that the best way to secure secure a conviction would
be for Cecilia to get Pam on tape confessing to her role in the murder and Cecilia and her mother agreed to the
plan damn because remember her mother needs to sign off on this yeah so Cecilia's first attempt came on June
19th when the police attached a recording device to the family's telephone they were hoping they could
record a conversation like a phone conversation between Cecilia and Pam so Cecilia was giving it her all she wanted
to win here but Pam was very guarded and she was denying any romantic relationship between her and Billy
because I think she was like they could bug our phones yeah of course she was a little ahead yeah but at the same time
she was also dodging Cecilia's references to Greg's murder so in the end the call was a bust yeah but in the
weeks and months after the arrest Pam she was playing it cool in public she was like oh I don't even think these
boys had anything to do with Greg's death like just playing it up Hamming it up yeah but at the same time she
obviously must have known she was a suspect rumors were starting to spread about Billy having an affair with her in
the back of her mind I think she knew her plan was [ __ ] all along yep also like why would you be dumb enough to
have teenagers do this for you truly it's only a matter of time before somebody slips up and says something and
here we go on July 12 1990 Cecilia Pierce took a second run at Pam in an attempt to get this confession and this
time she was wired with a microphone and a recording device for what the New Hampshire Attorney General's office
referred to as face-to-face one party intercept oh damn I love it that sounds intense it is so that afternoon Cecilia
went to Pam's office and she literally had a tape recorder running like somewhere in her and Pam immediately
somewhere in her pocket and she swallowed it I don't know so Pam rushes over to give her a hug which she must
have been sharding herself yeah absolutely pooping her pants truly and as she's hugging her Pam's hands come
dangerously close close to brushing the microphone wires like she oh my God was very very close to being caught I'd be
like no touchy no touchy but the conversation ended up being like rambling there was a lot of weird
chatting and she kind of alluded to some involvement in the mat in the murder but
she didn't outright confess to anything okay so a second meeting got set up for the next day and Cecilia got reset up
with a recording device and this time they got what they needed oh [ __ ] so the
second recorded conversation with Pam was much more direct there were way more details about the case and and now there
was the potential for even more arrests because more names were dropped throughout the discussion Pam went out
of her way multiple times to insist that Cecilia would be arrested as an accessory if she went to the police she
was like just so you know like you'll be in too so like don't [ __ ] me over oh [ __ ] but Cecilia has already talked to
the police and she knows that she's not true so she kept going now so finally after what seems like ours investigators
got what they needed and this is the little bit of it Cecilia says so he's not going to say that you offered to pay
him right he's going to say he knew about it before it happened which is the truth and Pam says right well so then
I'll have to say no I didn't and then they're either going to believe me or they're going to believe J.R 16 years
old and in The Slammer and then who me with a professional reputation and a course that I teach you know that's the
thing Cecilia says right and Pam goes they're gonna believe me wow the confidence boom baby wow the
dumb confidence it would turn out that Pam was wrong I was gonna say ER they didn't believe her incorrect key on
August 1st less than two weeks after that recorded conversation with Cecilia Pam was approached by detective Danielle
I believe it's Pelletier in her office in the building inside of the high school and she'd actually already spoken
with uh Pelletier a few times so as soon as she saw him she jumped up and was like excited to see him and he got very
theatrical with it I can't even say I believe him he said said well Pam I have some good news and I have some bad news
the good news is that we've solved the murder of your husband oh my God I love it the bad news is that you're under
arrest oh he really went for it Dave and I were talking about it and he was like
how many times do you think he practiced that oh 100 and I can't blame him no absolutely I can't believe in the car
ride there like talking to myself in the rear view mirror I would be saying it over and over again let's go got
arrested at the high school we love to see poetic poetic justice so Pam was stunned but obviously she had to follow
detective's orders as she was handcuffed and let out of the building yeah I mean
you don't really have a choice at that point and there were several other detectives from Darian Hampton out there
waiting in their car so this was like a sting operation and a journalist from Nashua who had shown up at the school
after getting an anonymous tip he actually snapped several photos of Pam being loaded into the back of the
cruiser yup I'm gonna look it up look it up so the next day uh August 2nd Pam was
arraigned and dairy District court for what the prosecutor claimed was promoting or facilitating the murder of
her husband now in an affidavit filed with the county the Attorney General's office said that Pam quote aided William
Flynn in the planning or Commission of the murder in the affidavit makes it clear that it was Billy not Pam who
fired the Fatal shot okay so the no the news came as a shock to almost everyone outside of the investigation especially
Greg's parents who had to show up to this arraignment now in a statement given to the Press outside the
courthouse Bill Smart Greg's father told the reporters she has taken a loved one
from us and all I can say is if indeed she is guilty that they teach her a lesson and give her the maximum sentence
that the God and Lord above us would give her there you go boom that says it all I think I think so so a week later
there was a bail hearing and Pam pleaded with the judge to please allow her to be
released on bail girl she said I have been incarcerated 12 days for a crime I did not commit I'm only 22 years old and
I'm a widow I have gone through an immeasurable amount of pain and suffering already and I would ask you if
this court is worried about me of fleeing I assure you I'm going nowhere I want to be in the courtroom to prove
that I am innocent of these charges yeah we totally believe you like girl I hope
that you take up acting in prison you're bad at it though you're pretty bad so her defense lawyers argued that the
arrest and the entire case against her was based on innuendo hearsay double hearsay contradictions and statements
made by an unidentified 16 year old intern who was brow beaten into saying the state's evidence was true that's a
quote wow the prosecution though was led by Assistant Attorney General Cynthia white and she uh disagreed she's like no
she argued that Pam could be heard on the recording making several allusions to her relationship with Billy and her
role in the affair and quote encouraging the teenager to lie to the police about
her knowledge of the murder yeah you know that whole thing yup so the County Superior Court Judge Douglas gray
luckily sided with the prosecution and ordered that Pam behold held without bail until the trial okay and in his
decision gray wrote the words of the defendant on tape serve to bolster the state's position in two ways first the
statements are incriminating in nature and secondly they lend Credence to the friend's prior statement to police Yeah
so basically he like she admitted it and it makes sense and it lines right up with what we thought happened yup so of
course the Press covering the case were chomping at the [ __ ] bit they overlooked some of the more important
details of the case like the fact that Pam wasn't a teacher yeah it didn't matter the nation was captivated it was
the first time that anybody had really heard of a case with details as shocking as these ones yeah so people were like
following super closely for every last update and actually fun fact here it was the first criminal trial in America to
be televised from beginning to end oh [ __ ] that's crazy isn't that crazy on Monday January 28 1991 Billy pleaded
guilty to second-degree murder and P and J.R pleaded guilty to a charge of being
accomplished accomplices to second degree murder in exchange for their testifying against Pam at her trial damn
which was supposed to start in early March the pleas were another blow for Pam's defense lawyers thanks
their attempts to suppress the recorded conversation had been denied and they were trying to contain the damage by the
Press which but like that was going to be hard to do and by Cecilia who already had agreed to interviews with everybody
from Hampton Union to ABC News oh [ __ ] but still her lawyers Pam's lawyers tried to stay confident in front of the
cameras they told reporters the claims from Cecilia and the boys were garbage and they were confidently boasting quote
they're just more people to cross-examine we'll be ready to try the case uh whatever and then they said the
thing that you should never say if you're going to lose a case we're looking forward to it oh that's not good
I just feel like that's never good no so Pam kept maintaining that she was entirely innocent of any charges but in
the seven months since her arrest the media coverage had allowed the public and probably any jury member anywhere
near here to form an opinion on their own yeah people were pretty sure she was guilty and that was pretty much
confirmed confirmed for them when a month before the trials started Pam was indicted for attempting to solicit
another inmate at the New Hampshire state prison for women to kill Cecilia Pierce before she could testify oh my
God because you know that wouldn't look suspicious or anything wow mama she's Reckless Reckless like she is so
reckless Reckless what a monstrous human being literally indicted in the middle of a murder trial for soliciting another
[ __ ] Murder She is a monstrous she is monstrous human being she's a cuckoo nut
man so her trial started on March 4th 1991 in uh Exeter New Hampshire the state's case was led by Assistant
Attorney General Diane Nicolosi I believe is how you say it and Pam continued to be represented by Mark
siste and Paul Toomey now from the moment the trial began the courtroom was like I said packed with reporters from
print and television media and even though there had been multiple criminal trials in the past like I said this one
was the first criminal trial to unfold on television in real time beginning to end and the start of this trial actually
coincided with the debut of Court TV oh [ __ ] this is like the first thing that
happened on court TV oh wow that's crazy so in her opening statement to the jury
Nicolosi laid out the facts on the evening of May 1st 1990 Billy Flynn acting under the direction of his lover
Pam smart drove to Derry where he and Pete Randall murdered Greg smart and tried to make it look like it was a
robbery and the attorney there explained to the court that Billy's motivation was
Pam and his worry that if he didn't go through the murder she was going to leave him and then went on to explain
that Pete Randall and the other boys in the getaway car they were motivated by money okay now finally even though she
wasn't in the room when the murder happened Nicolosi made it clear that the only reason Greg smart was murdered by
Billy and Pete was because Pam had lied manipulated and orchestrated the entire thing of course she was like Pam did
this willingly intentionally and even when she was presented with multiple opportunities to call this off she kept
going double down she said she was determined to be free of Greg and she wanted the money from his life insurance
policy which was very easy to prove that was what she did with it now the defense attorney Mark's uh Sisty
I believe is how you say it said it should be obvious we don't agree on much or on the evidence they claim they're
going to place before you like yes we know that that's why you're a defense attorney that's kind of how
court works thank you for telling us thank you so much for that uh the obvious yes thank you for that now he uh
didn't really dispute the fact that Pam was guilty and also really didn't try to
prove her innocence with his own information instead he was just trying to undermine the prosecution's case like
make them doubt that yeah he paid specific attention to the fact that the most damning testimony was gonna come
from the killer themselves or the killers and he said that they were only testifying as part of a plea agreement
for a lesser sentence which would put doubt in the jury's mind of course of course and then he went on to tell them
that what the prosecution plan to present was going to be quote one of the most vile concoctions ever assembled in
one courtroom in the state of New Hampshire wow that's that's intense they always get so theatrical I was gonna say
that's like very exaggerated yeah and then finally he ended by saying that Greg's murder was the sole
responsibility of three and this is a quote quote three cold-budded blooded thrill Killers fueled by sex obsession
jealousy and mental illness wow okay yeah I think you're talking about your client brother yeah I think so so the
next day the Patrick sorry the state called Patrick Pete Randall as its first witness his description of the events on
the night of Greg's murder were so matter of a fact and so brutal that judge gray actually had to stop the
testimony at one point so that Greg's mother could be helped out of the car oh God that's awful he explained quote I
was supposed to cut his throat but I couldn't do that because of the things he said I just couldn't do it after that
wow yup now J.R last time there the second witness to be called by the state confirmed the details given in the
prosecution's opening statements and in Pete's testimony but he went on to add even more details about Pam and her
relationship with Billy he told the jury quote she just kept asking how she should act when she discovered Greg's
Body she didn't know whether to scream run from the house or call the police what we just told her to act normally
I can't believe that she was like how what how do you act when someone that you're supposed to love is found
murdered in your home hey 16 year old what should I do yeah like you can't even Muster that up like you did marry
this man you did like love him you wanted to have children with him well she didn't he wanted you can't just like
muster up some kind of like well anything what would happen if you loved someone and they got murdered like
really you can't wow what you couldn't conjure that one and your 22 year old woman asking a
couple a couple of 16 year old boys how you should act of course in what world so it was clear obviously that the
prosecution was attempting to portray or just like showing that Pam was a narcissistic Mastermind and the defense
was trying to do the same but they were trying to point it as the three boys were the Mastermind and crazy people of
course now Sisty pointed to the arrest reports which included the boys uh laughing and singing on the way back to
Seabrook after the murder so he's like look there look at how yeah look how [ __ ] up they were but the Press noted
that neither the witnesses nor the accused quote ever displayed sadness or remorse for the killing so he's trying
to sit there and pin the blame on one of them but the media is like yeah none of
them seem that upset it doesn't seem like it to me now 10 days into the trial into Pam's trial Billy Flynn was finally
called to testify for the prosecution his testimony basically said the same thing Pete and Jr had already said but
he was the one with all the Sensational details about his romance with Pam of course and her reaction in the days
before and after the murder he told the jury that Pam would later tell him about finding Greg's Body he
said she told me she couldn't get herself to cry wow like you have been like dating and
married to this man for years and you can't muster up anything that's cold-blooded he also told the
prosecution that his testimony betrayed a promise that he had made to Pam a month before his arrest my guy he said I
told her I'd never tell on her because I loved her wow yikes wow now before his questioning
was over Assistant Attorney General Paul maggiato asked Billy why did you say God
forgive me before shooting Greg and Billy answered because I didn't want to kill Greg I wanted to be with Pam and
that's what I had to do to be with Pam oh my God that's so [ __ ] up it's so [ __ ] I actually have Goosebumps yeah
like that truly like that's [ __ ] up it's like for him to say I didn't want to do that but I did it for her and it's
like oh like the amount of lives that she just straight up shattered just in every way she turned a kid into a killer
though wasn't a killer literally crazy [ __ ] up absolutely insane and that's I didn't want to kill Greg I just wanted
to be with Pam yeah that tells you everything everything like him saying those few sets of words says a million
words so the defense on cross-examination tried to make it seem like Billy had an
unreciprocated obsession with Pam no and he misunderstood and agreed with them and said she was the first girl I ever
loved and I didn't want her to leave me oh my God so it's just so sad it's sad all around so the most damning evidence
came in the last days of the trial when jurors finally heard the recorded conversation between Cecilia and Pam
which then was followed by testimony from Cecilia on recording you can hear Pam tell Cecilia I'm afraid one day
you're going to come in here and you're going to be wired by the [ __ ] police and I'm going to be busted
I would [ __ ] my pants would have sharted the biggest shark yeah oh my God as she's sitting there yeah like wired
oh Pam you silly goose you don't know how close you were oh my God now across to the two tapes allowed
into evidence Pam can also be heard repeatedly admitting to the affair manipulating Cecilia into remaining
silence and strongly alluding to the fact that she was the one behind the murder so on March 22nd 1991 now after
13 hours of deliberation the jury found Pam smart guilty of being an accomplice to first-degree murder conspiracy to
commit murder and tampering with a witness in the end multiple jurors would tell
the Press more than anything else it was the tapes that convinced them of her guilt one juror told the Boston Globe it
was a very very difficult decision for us I didn't want it to turn out this way but the evidence the tapes and the
testimony proved in our minds that she was guilty yeah of course and other jurors were convinced because of Pam's
demeanor and her attitude on the stand and just how she acted in the courtroom in general according to another juror
everyone commented that Pamela Smart looked like a statue her coldness was very striking ooh creepy yeah now even
when she was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole she sat there motionless with absolutely no expression
on her face yeah something wrong with that one something real real with that one Greg's parents on the other hand
were sobbing with relief Judy smart told reporters it feels great she got what she deserved the first thing we're going
to do is go to Greg's grave as a family and tell him what happened so he can rest in peace oh that hurts my heart
it's so sad now Friends of the family and all of the boys involved were also pleased with the verdict Karen Knight
who was actually a friend of the Flynn family told reporters she not only took Greg's life she also took Billy's future
and that's not something he can ever get back no sentence the court could put on
her is high enough for the Injustice that she's caused yeah it's I mean it's so true it really is now just after
sentencing Pam was immediately sent to the New Hampshire state prison for women to begin serving her sentence and in
early 1993 she and her attorneys of course appealed the verdict to the state supreme court basically they argued that
the publicity surrounding the case [ __ ] the whole thing up and that Pam never had a chance to receive a fair
trial it's like girl she was on tape exactly but they were like and thus her constitutional rights have been violated
so the court recognized the media coverage before during before and during the trial they were like yeah it was
unprecedented in State history but we disagree with you they said both the 16th Amendment and the the United States
Constitution and part 1 Article 15 of New Hampshire Constitution guarantee the right of a defendant to a trial by a
fair and impartial jury this however does not require that the jurors be totally ignorant of the facts and issues
involved in these days of Swift widespread and diverse methods of communication an important case can be
expected to arouse the interest of the public in the vicinity and scarcely any of those best qualified to serve as
jurors will not have some informed impression or opinion as to the merits of the case whoa
which I mean makes sense now the appeal also challenged the recorded conversations though between
Cecilia and Pam Pam's attorneys claimed that the police had pressured Cecilia into consenting to the recording and
therefore it should have been excluded from evidence and not presented at the trial wow but the court also disagreed
with this Challenge and wrote back basically saying that Cecilia's mother was present for all of the interviews
yeah no she was able to advise Cecilia the whole way through yep and Cecilia herself said that the police explained
everything to her and both she and her mother signed all the necessary consent forms yeah so that was a bust
obviously in the end the state supreme court sided with the prosecution in the appeal and the lower Court's original
ruling was upheld no in the end Billy Flynn was sentenced to 40 years an adult person wow with a minimum of 12 Years
served before he'd be eligible for parole he ended up serving his sentence at the Maine State Prison in war in
Maine and he applied for a sentence reduction in 2007 which was denied in 2014 he got moved to a minimum security
facility and in March 2015 he did end up getting paroled and was allowed to re-enter the community wow sadly the
smart family was entirely against this but the parole board chairwoman at the time Donna styrek I believe is how you
say it commented on Billy's behavior in prison saying I've not seen such remarkable accomplishments that's not
something we ordinarily see so at the very least hopefully his frontal lobe developed a bit more and he
figured out how to make better decisions in life and hopefully he will be a better person here's here's to hope he
poor one in all forms now Patrick Pete Randall received a similar sentence as Billy and he also served his sentence at
the Maine State Prison he ended up being granted Parole in April of 2015 and was
released into the community in June of that year okay J.R latim who pleaded guilty to a lesser crime of being an
accomplice to murder he was sentenced to 30 years in prison to be served again at
Maine State Prison he was paroled in 2005. wow and in early 2023 he actually petitioned the court to have the rest of
his sentence suspended saying quote he has a wife and a full-time job and is making every effort not to waste his
second chance the court actually has yet to make a decision on that wow now Ray Fowler the cousin there he did
eventually plead guilty to conspiracy to commit murder an attempted burglary he got a combined sentence of 30 years but
he was paroled in 2003 after he served 11 years of that sentence he ended up though being sent back to
prison just a year later because he violated the terms of his parole uh by leaving New Hampshire to go visit his
girlfriend in Massachusetts but he got released on parole again one year later and his parole officially
ended ended in 2013. and according to prison authorities he quote had no problems behaving in prison or else we
wouldn't have ruled him so there's that okay uh Cecilia Pierce she tried to go back to her life in New
Hampshire but because the trial was so public she had a really hard time oh and she ended up moving not too long after
the trial to Jefferson City Missouri oh and then a few years after that she actually moved back to Seabrook and
finally settled in Albany where she actually works now as a registered nurse wow she was among the most high profile
Witnesses in the case and she actually ended up getting a lot of negative attention because of all the interviews
that she did with the press and because she ended up selling her story to a production company oh [ __ ] in 2016 she
told reporters people think I got a hundred and twenty thousand dollars but the truth but she said the truth was
that she got ten thousand dollars so which I was like yeah ten thousand dollars for being a spineless jellyfish
yeah okay though now Pam since she's been incarcerated she talks to the press as often as she possibly can of course
she does she still maintains her innocence uh and she still petitions for her release No One Believes you no in
2016 she told reporters I would like to think I would like people to think of me
as a human being I am not the caricature that people think some evil person no request denied yeah that's absolutely
not no as of 2023 she is currently serving her sentence in a New York prison and she has exhausted all of her
appeals and as of February 2023 she and her lawyers are still trying to petition
the state supreme court to hear her appeal for a sentence reduction but they don't seem very interested it's a no
from them yeah it's a no from them when they officially denied the request they cited Pam's ongoing refusal refusal to
accept responsibility and that was her last hope for a sentence reduction cue up the tiniest violin in the world
now she emailed her supporters which um if you're one of them get absolutely wrecked
saying that the decision was quote unquote political question mark how so question the
question mark is me yeah she said the death penalty would have been more merciful than this nothing will ever be
enough for New Hampshire to say I'm a human being deserving of anything more than being locked up in a cage like an
animal for the rest of my entire life you orchestrated the murder of a man yeah go away and you had a sexual
relationship with a minor as an adult yeah you're a pedophile so like you did some stuff yeah it's not
political girl no it's just yuccas yup now when Billy was released Greg's older brother Rick told the Boston Herald I
think he did his time he was at a young age don't get me wrong I'm not saying he
shouldn't have been punished but I want to put this behind me and I'm sure he wants to put it behind him wow he went
on to say that Pam should never be released 100 unfortunately Greg's mom Judy passed
away less than 10 years after Greg was killed her son's murder absolutely destroyed her and Greg's father too he
passed away in 2010. but his brother Rick told the herald he felt as though his father would agree with him that
Billy did his time and he ended the interview saying maybe someday I would like to speak to him meaning Billy just
so I could find out how exactly what happened from someone who was there I kind of want to know but at the same
time I just want to move on he took our brother and my parents son at a young age I would hope that by now he would
realize what he did and I think he probably does he's had a lot of time to think about it whether he'd be honest
with me about that about that I don't know it wouldn't change my opinion about him getting out but if I was him I
wouldn't try and squander it wow like what that is a tough decent human being right there it really is like wow
it just goes to show you don't know how you would feel until something like this
got up from it happens to you yeah like but mad respect for real a lot of respect to Rick so much respect and then
obviously this has been made into like countless movies I think Nicole Kidman in plain to pay him at one point which
was a very generous compliment yeah Helen Hunt also played her in another movie again a very generous compliment
I think we should just next time hire a dumpster and put a blonde wig on it and see what happens or you know like this
they'll make another one or don't make another one there's always make another one that's a good plan we've had enough
so yeah that is the wild freaking case that is I feel smart and the murder of Greg smart what a sad story it really is
through and through because there are two people that should never have gotten married no never so sad that they didn't
just like get to divorce like a normal couple that's the thing because they absolutely I think Greg was starting to
go in that direction and it's so many like times where either they should have just divorced and that should have been
it or in that moment when all those kids realized that they didn't want to do this I wish they had just
not done it they're just stood up for what they're something inside of them was saying and just listened to it right
how to [ __ ] makes me crazy how to spine I wish anybody in this story had a spine would have been great truly that
would that would have been awesome it would have been fantastic yeah but as always guys we hope you keep listening
and we hope you keep it weird but not to where the ear spineless jellyfish who decides to murder somebody because you
want to be with a lady that is kind of a pedophile don't be a dick don't be a dick don't do it love you
[Music] thank you [Music]

A little after 10:00 pm on the evening of May 1, 1990, Pamela Smart returned home from work to find her husband, twenty-four-year-old Gregg Smart, lying dead just beyond the front door of their condominium, a single bullet hole in his head. Detectives from the small town of Derry, NH arrived to find what appeared to be the scene of a robbery; though, very little looked to have been stolen and to investigators the scene felt staged. Two days later, Derry Police Captain Loring Jackson announced that Gregg Smart’s death wasn’t a random attack, he’d been murdered by someone who knew him. The murder of Gregg Smart, and the trial that followed, shocked the population of New Hampshire, where it remains perhaps the most notorious criminal trial in the state’s history. As the first criminal trial to be televised from beginning to end, the case of Pamela Smart and her teenage lover captivated a national audience, leading to television and feature films, several nonfiction books, and countless television specials in the decades that followed.

Special thank you to the brilliant David White for research assistance

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State of New Hampshire v. Pamela Smart. 1993. 622 A.2d 1197 (Supreme Court of New Hampshire, February 26).

Wang, Beverley. 2005. "Pamela Smart accomplice released." Concord Monitor, June 15: 10.

West, Nancy. 2016. Breaking Silence: Cecelia Pierce Speaks. October 12. Accessed April 24, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/breaking-silence-cecelia-pierce-speaks/.

West, Nancy, and David Mendelsohn. 2016. Pamela Smart: innocent of (still) guilty. October 13. Accessed April 29, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/pamela-smart-innocent-or-still-guilty/

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Brief Summary

Hosts discuss the Vanderpump Rules finale and the Pam Smart murder case, highlighting manipulation and tragic outcomes.

Key points

The Scandaval Finale. The Vanderpump Rules finale left fans shocked and infuriated by the cheating drama.
Pam's Manipulation. Pam pressures Billy to follow through with their murderous plan, revealing her true nature.
The Moment of Regret. Pete testifies that Greg's pleas made him regret the murder plan.
Pam's Disturbing Reaction. Pam pretends to be shocked at finding Greg's body, raising suspicions.
Pam's Theories. Pam concocts wild theories about her husband's murder, pointing fingers everywhere but at herself.
Teenage Confessions. Billy brags about the murder to friends, revealing shocking details of the crime.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

If you love me as much as you said, then you would stop making excuses.

12:28WatchJun 2, 2023

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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