Episode 743: The Shocking Murder of Terry King (Part 2) | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. >> I'm Ash. >> And this is Morbid. [music] I need a fridge cigarette and we don't
have any. [laughter] Like bam. >> And the episode [music] has started. I think I took the last one. Mikey's
looking for me. >> Mikey's like, I got you, girl. He waved his fist punch in anger
>> at the at the fact that there's no fridge [music] cigarette. Mikey's going to punch me and possums.
>> Yeah, [laughter] you will understand that until >> you listen to the rewatcher.
>> Just plug in all our shows. [laughter] >> Pluggity plug plug >> pluggy plug plug.
>> Actually, the rewatcher, just quick little pluggy plug plug now that we're on it. Um,
>> the amount of people that were either like, "Hey, I never watched True Blood and I'm watching it now because of
this." I didn't initially like True Blood and now I'm loving it. >> Hell yeah. I've heard I've seen some of
those and I think that's a pretty good indication that you should be listening to the rewatch.
>> I think that's a great >> It's a lot of fun over there. Talking about a lot of vampire sex right now.
>> It's the same kind of vibe. I've never seen True Blood before, so I'm watching
it for the first time and Mickey and Alina have seen it. >> Yeah, >> we I'm going to We should do a thing
that you guys have never seen that I've seen. It would be the most reckless. It would have to be reality television or
like >> Secret Life of the American [laughter] Teenager. Oh my god, we should rewatch
that show. Please don't do that to me. [laughter] >> I don't know if I could do that to
myself. No, frankly, I really don't know if I could do that to myself. >> Yeah, I could not.
>> I remember there came a time where I my mom made me stop watching that because
it got so reckless. And honestly, [laughter] that was one of the only good parenting
decisions she ever made. [gasps] >> So, there's that. Speaking of crazy family dynamics, uh we are in part two
of the gruesome awful murder of Terry King. >> Yeah, this this one's rough. This one is
very rough. It's very layered there. I There's a lot of divisive opinions about this case. I don't think any of us will
really ever know the full truth of certain aspects of this case, but we definitely know some truths and they're
tough to sit with. But in part one, we talked about how Terry was discovered in a house fire, which they initially just
thought was, you know, a houseire, but it turned out that he had basically suffered like blunt force trauma to his
head and then the killer had left and set the house on fire. Then this guy Ricky starts showing up everywhere. And
I don't like Ricky >> being a strange character. the lead investigator, do I almost just said
doctor, Detective Sanderson, starts talking to Ricky a little more and Ricky slowly is like saying, "Oh, you know,
like I really love this family. They mean a lot to me. I do anything for the kids. I do anything for Terry." But
>> Terry's abusive and the kids probably killed him. >> And that's where we ended part one.
>> And the detective said, "Huh?" >> The detective said, "Qu." >> The detective said, "Sometimes you just
get an interview and then you have to move on." >> Yeah. like you know that little Tik Tok
trend. Yeah, >> I was making it funny. >> I like it. >> Thanks. So, let's get into it. Later
that same afternoon, after that initial interview with Ricky, uh Detective Sanderson and his partner decided they
would accompany Ricky back to his trailer under the guise of wanting to check the answering machine to see if
either boy had contacted him. >> There weren't any messages on the machine, but the level of security at
the house struck them as highly unusual. The trailer was surrounded by a huge security fence that was electrified.
>> Okay. >> And there were security cameras literally all around the property. Like
every angle was covered. >> Wow. So the level of security implied that there was something probably
precious or valuable inside. But once they walked through the door, Detective Sanderson couldn't fathom what that
would be because every surface of Ricky's home was covered with garbage and clutter.
>> Ew. Yeah. It was yuckus. So after checking the answering machine and not finding anything, the detective thanked
Ricky and got the [ __ ] out of there cuz he was like, "Ew." And also that was weird. So he spent the rest of the
afternoon interviewing the people who had known Derek and Alex the best. And like the interviews he had conducted
earlier that day, Ricky Chavis's name kept coming up again and again and again. According to Frank Lei,
Dererick's former foster father, the boys had struggled with Dererick's return home, and there was tension in
the house. But he himself didn't think there was any abuse. >> Okay. >> As for the previous weeks when the boys
had run away, he clarified they hadn't been in the woods like Ricky said they had been, but actually they were living
at Ricky's house for that week that they were missing. Oh, yeah. Derek told his former foster father that Chavis helped
them plan their escape and protected them by hiding them from their father. >> Okay. So Lewis Tyson, a friend of
Terry's, told the detective a similar story. According to Tyson, he had been at the house when the boys were returned
by the police officer the following day, like back into Tererry's home. Derek and
Alex said they stayed in the woods the entire time that they were missing, but Tyson pressed them and he told the
detective. I said, "I know you're lying. You two didn't stay in the woods. Derek,
you're afraid of spiders. Alex, you're afraid of the dark." That's when they kind of just looked at the ground and
they told me about their friend. Okay. >> Their friend is Ricky Chavis. >> I was going to say,
>> so Tyson didn't know the name of Derek and Alex's quote unquote friend, but he
knew that the boys had been spending a lot of time with whoever this was. >> Mhm.
>> According to Tyson, they said they liked going to this person's house because he
had a computer and he wasn't very strict. When he described the house and the security fence and the cameras
around the property, Sanderson immediately was like, "Oh, okay. We're talking about Ricky [ __ ] Chavis like
everybody else is." Yeah. So, by the end of the first day of the investigation, Sanderson and his partner still hadn't
found Derek or Alex or really, they weren't able to determine what happened in this house. But after everything they
heard that day, they were starting to think that whatever the [ __ ] happened here and whatever the [ __ ] happened just
before the fire, Ricky Chavis was somehow involved. >> Yeah, it's certainly seeming that way.
>> Yeah. Everybody they're talking to is either like hinting toward it having something to do with this or just seem
like he was around all the time. So after wrapping up his interview with Lewis Tyson, Detective Sanderson was on
his way back to the station and he got a call. On the other end of the line, a sheriff's deputy informed him that
Dererick and Alex King had been found and they were on their way to the station in the company of Ricky Chavis
and Deputy Reggie Jernigan. I don't know if that name sounds familiar to you, Reggie Jernigan.
>> Yeah, definitely. I remember it being mentioned. So, in part one, when Ricky Chavis initially talked to one of the
investigators, he said, "You really want to talk to this guy >> who's a deputy?"
>> Yeah. >> So, as soon as they got to this the sheriff's station, Dererick and Alex
were taken to a separate room, like away from Ricky. And Sanderson sat down again
with Ricky for another interview. So, Ricky said he was at home and he got a call from some anonymous woman calling
from a pay phone outside of a convenience store in Pace, Florida. He said the woman indicated she knew where
the boys were and that Ricky should get to the convenience store right away. So,
he jumped in his car without hesitation and he made it to the store in 10 minutes. And right when he pulled his
car into the parking lot, Derek and Alex walked out of the woods and both got into his car and returned back home to
his house. >> Okay. Convenient. >> H among other things, Ricky said that as they drove back to his house, Dererick
confessed to murdering his father with a baseball bat. >> Wow. and setting the house on the fire
right before they disappeared into the woods. Uh, completely shocked, quote unquote, by the boy's confession, Chavis
said he insisted they had to turn themselves into the police, and that's when he called his friend Reggie, who
came over, picked the three of them up, and brought them to the station. >> Okay,
>> so after listening to this story, Sanderson and his partner were like, "Okay, this is [ __ ] weird, but like
now we need to go talk to these two children." >> This has opened up a lot more. So they
went to the room where Dererick and Alex were being held and introduced themselves. In Florida, minors actually
can be interviewed by law enforcement without a parent or a guardian in the room, which is in my opinion crazy.
>> That's wild to me. >> So the only people present, it's just important to note, were the detectives
and the boys. And about 15 minutes into the interview, they were joined by Deputy Jernigan.
>> That's like really wild. >> It really is. >> I feel like we like we breeze by that,
but like that's really wild. >> No, it really isn't. that minors can be like interviewed,
>> like interrogated essentially without a guardian or parent present. >> Like please, obviously in this case it
seems to work out. Like I think this detective had very pure intentions and just wanted to get this case solved and
like there's no weird [ __ ] here. >> That's not always the case. >> But that's not always the case. We
literally just covered the yogurt shop murders where we don't need to get into all of that again. But like that didn't
go well. >> Yeah. >> So yeah. >> Yeah. That's wild. >> It was very scary. >> So the interview started casually. The
detectives kind of just asked like innocuous questions. How old are you guys? What grades are you in? So on so
forth. But after a few minutes, the conversation turned to what happened in the house the previous evening. By the
way, all of this has happened in like a day. >> Yeah, it feels like this has happened in
four years. >> Yeah. So Derek said earlier in the afternoon, Terry had been abusing Alex
and was throwing him around. Like several of the others Sanderson talked to, Dererick insisted that his dad had
been abusive to both of them in the past. >> But he also wasn't really explaining the
abuse in any specific explicit way, >> just kind of a nebulous abuse. >> Was really just saying like he's abusive
to us and not really saying anything. >> Yeah. >> So the best he could come up with, he
said he was staring me down some. >> Okay. >> Which I don't know. I wasn't there. It
took some time, but eventually the conversation turned to the murder itself. At first, Derek said that he had
hit his father with the baseball bat in defense of his brother. But Sanderson explained that the evidence at the scene
didn't exactly support that explanation because remember when they found Terry's
body, he's literally sitting in a chair with a coffee cup and his legs propped up on a couch like he was chilling.
>> Yeah. >> So that's when Dererick changed his story. >> [snorts] >> He said they waited until later in the
evening when Terry had fallen asleep in his recliner in the living room. Derek didn't just remember the chair that
Terry was sitting in, but he was able to describe the exact position of his father's body reclined feet up on the
couch and the fact that he had a coffee cup in like I think it was in his hand at that moment. He said, "I went in
there. I hit him once and I heard him moan and then I was afraid he might wake up to see us so I just kept hitting him.
I hit him somewhere around 10 times. Like to be able to do that as any human being is
horrifying. >> This is a 13-year-old >> 13year-old ch and it's like h this is just and it
was not that long that he had been back in his custody. So unfortunately >> this is a whole different dynamic
because you sit there and you say any human being able to do this to another human being you just can't fathom.
>> No. And then a child being able to do this to a parent, you just >> can't fathom.
>> They're a little bit of new, you know, there's a new dynamic. >> They don't have the typical parent and
child relationship. >> It's not like, it's not like a child who's grown up in the house his whole
life, >> right? He was taken out of the house when he was five or six and returned two
months earlier at 13 years old. >> Yeah. So, it's like there's this massive span of time where like they were just
getting to know each other again. It feels like at this point >> seven years with little to no contact
because remember there was a little bit of contact when Derek was placed with his foster family but confusing so they
didn't really talk for seven years the better part. >> So there's an even weirder dynamic
>> like way more complex dynamic here which is very >> very unsettling. >> So throughout the interview Derek got
flustered once or twice obviously but he was otherwise pretty composed very matterof fact of everything that
happened. >> Damn. He described the murder with incredible detail, including the extent
of his dad's wounds, the sound that Terry made as he was hit, and the exact section of the rug that was lit in order
to set the fire. >> Wow. >> Like in I was there details. >> And also, >> you would think I wasn't in a frenzied
state. >> Yeah. >> I wasn't I wasn't blacked out. >> I remember each and every detail and was
pretty >> like methodical. Yeah. About everything. So according to Derek, Alex knew what
Dererick was going to do and he encouraged him, but he did not take any part in the actual killing. It was all
the younger brother. >> He's the younger one. He's 12. >> Yeah. >> And he had lived with Terry for a long
time. For a longer time. >> He had been placed back with Terry when he was in kindergarten. Yeah. So, and
now he's 12. >> Yeah. >> So during the interview, Derek did almost all of the talking while Alex sat
next to him pretty quietly. After taking the statement from Derek, the detectives
turned to Alex and asked him if what Dererick had just said was true. And Alex said, "It happened just as Derek
said." But he also did add some context to the abuse allegations. He said, "The mental abuse started a long time ago. It
had been going on for a real long time. I got informed by someone he was doing this."
Oh, yeah. So, someone has told him that he's being mentally abused. >> Uhhuh. Not even not physical. Not that
that's you know. >> Yeah. Not that it's >> but that he isn't coming up with this
himself. He's somebody's putting that in his head. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So when Sanderson
>> imagine who? >> Yeah. You'll never guess. When Detective Sanderson asked who told the boys that
they were being abused by their father, he was very unsurprised to learn that it
was Ray Chavis. >> Yep. >> So from that moment forward, the story would dominate the press. first in
Florida alone and then the country. Like I was saying, this happened right after
9/11. So all the news was of course about 911, but once this broke out of Florida, it was everywhere.
>> Yeah. >> At first, investigators actually weren't saying whether the boys were considered
witnesses or suspects, but based on the way that they were talking about everything, it was pretty clear that
they were suspects. >> Yeah. And I seem to remember like that. I think that's where I remember this is
I remember it on the news. >> Yeah, of course. So regardless of what investigators thought, nobody in the
public really seemed able to believe that two kids could have committed such a brutal act of violence against their
own father. >> Yeah. >> Terry's mother, Joyce, told a reporter, "I don't think there's any way they
could even think about doing that." >> Which of course you're not going to >> no conceive of that.
>> So just one day later, the district attorney's office couldn't contain the story any longer. And it was made public
that Derk and Alex had been arrested for the murder of their father. And just as
shocking as the crime itself was the fact that if the grand jury returned an indictment for either first or
seconddegree murder, both of them are going to be tried as adults. >> Holy [ __ ]
>> They are 12 and 13 years old. >> Damn. >> And one of them would have been on trial
for a murder that they technically didn't take >> actively take part in >> actively take part in. Exactly. That's
the best way to say it. So given the severity of the crimes, because there's also arson, yeah, the press and public
all speculated on what could have led these two kids to kill their father. In interviews with their teachers and their
former foster parents, everybody described them as nice, polite children. Obviously, Dererick had behavior
problems, but but they were mostly related to his ADHD. And there was never any sign that he would have committed
murder. Like nobody could look back and say, "Oh, I thought he would have killed
his father." You know, >> the pastor or their pastor at Olive Baptist Church, Reverend Ted Trailer,
described Derek as a boy constantly seeking affection and validation. >> Oh man.
>> He said he was reaching out for what he didn't have, he longed for these kinds
of relationships. You could sense that in him. >> That's devastating. >> It is. While people on the outside
speculated what could have possibly driven them to do this, detectives on the inside were also kind of wondering
the same thing. According to Dererick and Alex, it was the abusive behavior on part of their father that led them to
kill him. But when they were pressed to describe that abuse, they just kept struggling to come up with anything more
than Terry just being strict. >> Yeah. It's like if this isn't if this is like a, you know, cuz it makes me
obviously I'm sure many people are thinking about the Menendez brothers right now.
>> Yes. >> They were pretty explicit in what was going on in their house according to
them. So that's like you would think they'd be able to come up with >> certain things that's like this
atrocious thing happened and I couldn't handle it anymore. >> Whether that's >> I snapped,
>> you know, whatever you think of that, whatever. It's like and for them to not
be able to like >> coherently come up with even one instance of like like specific physical or any kind of
abuse, you know what I mean? >> It's it's just interesting as all. And it's interesting too because I agree
with you and it's interesting that when they were pressed about it they Alex said to the detective somebody told him
>> that's the thing like somebody informed for him >> and somebody informed me that we were
being mentally abused. >> Yes. Not even physically which is >> which again either is worse than the other.
>> No, >> but it's just it's very interesting. >> It is. >> Yeah. So, several people involved, we've
gone over it, tried to and really seemed determined to convince Detective Sanderson and the other investigators
that Terry King was abusing his children. But none was more emphatic about that than Ricky Chavis. And the
other person who had talked about it was Jimmy Walker, their grand father, their
stepgrandfather. But he was told by Ricky Chavis. >> Yeah. >> That Terry was being abusive. He never
said he saw anything. >> And he's the maternal stepgrandfather. the maternal step grandfather. Yes.
>> So, based on his own interviews with Dererick and Alex, Sanderson was pretty sure that the boys killed their father.
Like, they had all the details, >> but he couldn't help but think there was more to this going on than what he was
told. >> Mhm. >> And he just kept going back to Ricky Chavis because Ricky Chavis is
everywhere in this investigation. He's at the crime scene within less than an hour of the fire. By the way, his name
came up in almost every other interview conducted. He got the mysterious call that led to the boy's discovery, which
was like very He literally He said he literally pulled up his car to the convenience store as they were coming
out of the woods. >> Yeah. Like that's wild. >> When it came to the abuse narrative, it
was becoming increasingly clear that he was the one pushing that, too. >> I'm really glad that the police, like
the investigators, didn't take this at face value. >> Yeah. >> Cuz it would have been easy for them to
do so and just clear it. >> Yeah. I mean, two kids are telling you they're being abused and two kids are
just telling you like, "We did it." >> Mhm. >> And we were being abused and that's why
>> end of story. Like, they could have just been like clearcut. There's the motive.
There's the suspects. Like, we can just move forward with this and like Ricky's weird. I don't know. Like, they could
have just moved forward. >> It's honestly great detective work in my opinion. And also Ricky Chav is just
being a [ __ ] idiot and like which like thankfully, but he's just in interjecting himself into everything. He
He truly can't help it, >> which is a good thing. >> It's clear. >> So, given all the places that his name
had popped up, it came as no surprise to Detective Sanderson that Ricky's name also came up several times in Alex's
interview. Alex's answers were a lot less coherent and detailed than his brothers. But it was clear that Ricky
was the one who told both of them they were being abused. Alex said, "We had talked a lot about it and we were good
friends." He said that he'd done mental abuse and he told me about it and I started getting stronger because I knew
what it was and I found a way to sort of just deflect. >> Now he's sitting here saying, by the
way, as a 12-year-old that Ricky Chavis, 40 years old, is his good friend who he
spends a lot of time with. >> That's what struck me. >> No 40year-old is friends with a
12-year-old. >> No. And if they are, >> it's [ __ ] weird. >> Red flag. >> [ __ ] weird. I don't care what anybody
else's opinion is on that. >> That's weird. >> It is. [music] [music] So, it was clear from his interview that
Alex felt a lot of affection, specifically Alex felt a lot of affection toward Ricky. Yeah. and that
Ricky obviously had a very strong influence on him. So now Detective Sanderson is like he's sitting here
wondering did Ricky use this influence to convince the boys to kill Terry? >> Like that's it's leading in that
direction. But if that's the case, what could he why would he want that to happen? Like what would he possibly gain
from that? >> It didn't take very long for investigators to find out why Ricky Chavis had been so eager to spend time
with Alex and Derek. Oh god. A quick background check revealed that among other things, in 1984 he had been
arrested and convicted of sexual misconduct for sexually abusing two boys in their early teens.
>> [ __ ] >> So he has a type because he's a [ __ ] pedophile. >> He's disgusting.
>> So that added a very troubling new layer to the case. But Detective Sanderson and
other investigators would also learn that Chavis' connection went a lot deeper than they imagined.
In the next few days, as the family combed the wreckage of the king's house, the boy's other grandfather, Jimmy
French, so they have two grandfathers named Jimmy. Whoa. >> This other grandfather found a notebook
buried in the ashes of what was Alex's bedroom. And it was pretty well preserved, written on the front in
Alex's handwriting. It said, "Biography, do not read," which like it's just his kid.
>> Yeah. So Jimmy French flipped through the notebook obviously because he's like
this like my grandson is saying that his dad was abusing him and like him and his
brother decided to kill him over it. Like there's got to be something in here. >> Maybe there's something in here.
>> So that turned out like I said to be basically a diary and within a few seconds he was seriously alarmed by the
context and immediately turned it over to investigators. In a lot of ways, Alex's diary was kind
of what you would expect from somebody his age, like you know, mundane stories of the day-to-day. But sprinkled
throughout there were increasingly concerning entries about Ricky Chavis. I don't want to like quote anything
because I'm not going to quote somebody's diary, but the early entries talked about meeting Ricky, how great it
was, and how they were getting closer. But as the entries went further, they took on a more romantic tone. It was
very clear. Eventually, Alex wrote about realizing that he was gay because of Ricky. Wow. Um, and as Detective
Sanderson, once he got the journal, continued reading, it became clear that while Alex's affection and infatuation
with Chavis were obvious, those feelings were not one-sided at all and whatever was going on between them, it had been
initiated by Chavis and was continued by Chavis, a 40year-old man. >> Yeah. Doing so many
12year-old. >> Yeah. He's a disgusting monster. >> He's a pig. >> Yeah. So based on everything they
learned from the interviews and now from the evidence, it was clear that Ricky Chavis had played some kind of role in
Terry King's death. >> Yeah. And now it looks like we're getting a motive here. >> Yeah. And it was also very clear that he
had been sexually abusing at least one of these boys. Prosecutor David Rimer said, "I think he planted the seeds in
their mind. And I think he got the idea that if their father was dead, they could go live with Chavis. He had told
them that." That is so [ __ ] up beyond measure. It's diabolical. And mind you, Terry King made the acquaintance of
Ricky Chavis when he was like down on his luck and really just turning things around and just trusted enough in
another guy >> that he was wanting to help him. >> So Ricky Chavis took not only the
advantage of a child, >> but a a man his own like a full situation. And it wasn't the first time
he had done it. >> E. So the problem here was though that when it came to the murder and the
arson, all of the evidence, including the confessions, pointed directly at Derek and Alex.
>> So they weren't able to charge Chavis with the more serious crimes of arson and murder. But Rimmer took the
alternative approach of charging him as an accessory after the fact because he was convinced that he had aided the boys
in the murder and hidden them somewhere after the crime. >> That makes total sense. So, and it
became the theory that he basically like they were living in his trailer and they
must have gone somewhere because like the detective was coming to the house when they were there, but like he's
believed to have helped them wash the blood out of their clothes and let them stay there after.
>> Wow. >> So, he fully thought that they were just going to like all live together.
>> And now he's just fully throwing this on them, too. I'm like, "So, not only are
you a [ __ ] monster, pedophile, predator piece of [ __ ] y >> but then at the end of the day, you have
brought these kids in. You have groomed them >> y >> horrifically to make them like
completely infatuated with you and able do willing to do your bidding." >> And specifically the younger one.
>> Yeah, the specifically the younger one. And now when everything is going down,
you threw them so hard under the bus. >> Oh, just wait. Like you piece of absolute [ __ ] Just [ __ ] wait. Also,
>> like talk about lighting the grenade and throwing it and walking away. Like [ __ ]
>> This is his MMO. This is who he is. This is what he does. Look up a picture of
him. Also, he has the most punchable [ __ ] face. And I can say that cuz he's a pedophile.
>> Yeah. [ __ ] that. So, on December 13th, the same day that Derek and Alex were
arraigned on charges of first-degree murder, Ricky Chavis was arraigned on being on on one count of being an
accessory after the fact to murder. >> He has the most punchable face I've ever seen.
>> He looks exactly like who he is. >> So, it would take more than a year for Derek, Alex, and Ricky's trials to
begin. And in that time, more and more information started trickling out about Ricky's past. And none of it was good
information. He had spent nearly his entire adult life making a living through criminal ways. He sold weed. He
fixed up cars, but he like stole things and resold them and had other people do his bidding. He didn't have a lot of
bills to pay, and he earned a lot more money selling drugs than he knew what to do with. So, his trailer became a
popular spot with local teenagers who he would invite to the house and pry with alcohol and drugs.
>> Ew, >> he's a predator. >> He's disgusting. once he'd won these boys over and they felt indebted to him
because they they get to go hang out at Ricky's house and it's so fun and he gives us alcohol and he lets us smoke
and ly da >> he sounds like Dean Coral. >> Yeah, he actually >> he's very reminiscent the like candy
man. Candy man. Yeah, >> he sounds exactly like that actually. >> So once he won them over and they felt
indebted to him, he would inevitably make some small quote unquote small request in exchange for his kindness and
his generosity that he had showed them. So in time he basically formed his own like teenage criminal organization made
up of the boys that he had groomed and met around town and quote unquote be befriended. So in exchange for allowing
them to drink and to use drugs at his house, they would help him with whatever petty crimes he was into that day.
>> Wow. >> At first it was small things like stealing go-karts, bicycles, other things. But in time, things got to the
point where he was forcing these teens to break into houses of neighbors and steal from them. What the [ __ ]
>> And each successful theft increased their confidence and led to more jobs. And with each one, they got more and
more bonded and felt obliged to do whatever he told them to do. >> Yeah. Cuz now there's blackmail. He can
just be like, "Oh, I'll turn you in." >> He the way his brain works is so [ __ ]
>> So for most of the boys who spent time with Ricky over the years, their activities were limited to drinking,
getting high, committing petty theft. But there were some other boys that Ricky took a more personal interest in.
After the typical strategy of a predator, he would encourage them to spend time alone with him, give them
gifts, groom them until he was sure that they weren't going to reject his sexual
advances. >> He's disgusting. >> It makes me sick. >> Yeah. >> So, the fact that he managed to get away
with the theft and child abuse for so many years is pretty much a testament to the kind of people that he targeted. He
targeted boys who like were in marginalized communities and like whose parents maybe weren't around very often
didn't know that this was happening. >> Yeah. >> According to Katherine Mico and Molly
Barrows, who again we'll link their book in the show note in the show notes, at least one of the boys mothers was
informed by her 9-year-old son, and this is a lot, just trigger warning, that Ricky had exposed himself to him and his
brother. And this piece of [ __ ] garbage sorry ass excuse for a mother didn't call the police.
>> I don't even know how to respond to that. >> Yeah, you're a piece of [ __ ] >> Yeah, I don't even know how to respond
to that. >> It wasn't until 1985 that upon learning of her son's quote unquote sexual
relationship, which by the way, as a child you can't have a relationship with a grown person,
>> rape, >> one of the boys's mothers finally pressed charges and Ricky was prosecuted
and sent to prison. Jesus. >> It was his second offense at that point, by the way. But he ultimately only
served three years. >> Three years >> of a 9-year sentence >> for being a Wow. Okay.
>> He's a child predator. This is his second offense and they sentenced him to 9 years and don't do it again.
>> Yeah. It's worked out so well. Every time he let these kind of people go roaming around again, they'd never do it
again. It's crazy. >> It's insane. >> Yeah. So it was during that prison sentence that he became friendly with
one of the prison guards, Deputy Reggie Jernigan. >> Oh yeah. >> So wait, just to be clear, this child
predator in prison became friends with a prison guard. >> Yeah. >> Um, [ __ ] you.
>> Literally [laughter] [ __ ] you. >> [ __ ] you or disgusting. >> Literally [ __ ] you. Really weird to make
friends with a child predator. >> Yeah. Especially considering prison has a pretty [ __ ] clear hierarchy of
where they lay. Yeah, apparently you the prison guard are like, I'm gonna befriend this guy.
>> Yeah, this guy seems great. >> Seems like a good guy. >> I mean, you probably didn't do it.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, yeah, that's all a lot. >> The information about his past that was
appearing in the papers day after day definitely gave credence to the prosecution's theory that he managed to
convince Derk and Alex to kill their dad. >> But when he was asked directly by reporters and detectives, he just
repeatedly denied playing any role in Terry's death. He said only that he allowed the boys to stay on his house on
two occasions where they ran away and that was that. When he was asked very directly whether he had been sexually
abusing either of the boys, he said, "I'm not sexually active. I've been out of it 8 n years or better."
>> I've been out of it. Out of it like out of child predator behavior. Like what?
Because you were convicted of that. So you are a child predator. >> Yep. >> Okay, cool. So despite his repeated
denials, as the months passed, his true nature got the better of him because he's a [ __ ] predator and he can't
help himself. And he tried to stay in contact with Alex. Are you [ __ ] kidding me? No. In January 2002, guards
at the county jail found him trying to scratch a note into a concrete floor of the recreation yard with like the sharp
corner of a rock. At that time, he got as far as Alex don't trust before he was stopped and dragged back to his cell.
Which, by the way, can we all just take a minute to realize that they were locked up in the same prison as the
person who was grooming them or at the very least grooming Alex? >> Wow. >> Why the [ __ ] in a million years were
they ever placed in the same prison? >> Wow. Like I don't even >> The miscarriage of justice there alone
is nuts. >> That's wild. >> Two months later in late March, another message for Alex was discovered
scratched into the wall of a courthouse holding cell. >> The message didn't have a signature, but
it was obviously believed to have been left there by Ricky Chavis, who had been in that cell and been held there for 6
days just prior to the discovery of the message. The note read, "Hang in there. It will work out if nothing changes in
the testimony. You know who not to trust. They are just keeping us apart until this is over. It literally makes
me physically >> This boy is 12 >> and this man is 40. >> This boy is 12 and this man is 40.
>> They are just I can't even They're keeping us apart. >> If nothing changes in the testimony like
I'm like >> interesting. >> Okay. So it was almost like he had like a pathological compulsion to implicate
himself in this crime at this point. And he was just confident that prosecutors couldn't find evidence substantial
enough to charge him with anything other than being an accessory. >> But then to everybody's surprise, a
grand jury indicted him for murder >> after hearing a secret testimony from Derek and Alex in April. Like Derek and
Alex, Ricky Chavis now faced a life sentence in prison without the possibility of parole. [ __ ]
>> which is the mandatory sentence for murder in Florida. >> So, prosecutor David Rimemer had spent
months prepping his case against the boys based mostly on their own confession. But the indictment of Ricky
Chavis in April was a very unexpected twist and it proved to be just the first of multiple twists that were going to
complicate things for everybody. So, after the boys testified for the grand jury in April and those new charges got
brought up, David Rimmer started hearing rumors that Dererick and Alex were changing their story again and wanted to
recant their confessions. Now, >> those rumors were proved true when in August he got word from their lawyer
with an official request to change the statement. So, now they claimed, and this is interesting. I I think this gets
tossed to the side in a lot of the things that I read, but it to me it's interesting. They said on the night of
the murder, they went with Ricky to the house and they waited in the car while he went inside and killed Terry with a
baseball bat. According to Derek, Ricky asked them to take the blame because the
court would go easier on them. And he said he promised his mom before she died that he'd never get locked up again.
>> That's so specific. >> That's like really specific. >> And it's such predator behavior.
>> Yeah. It was also during that period that Alex confirmed investigator suspicions that Chapas had been sexually
abusing him. He find he he told himself. >> So to the press and public, the news
story kind of came as a relief in a way. It was a lot easier to accept that a child predator had committed murder
rather than two children against a complete piece of [ __ ] garbage. >> Exactly. The family was equally relieved
to hear the story. The boy's grandmother, Linda Walker, told a reporter, "They found out they wouldn't
get away with it. We knew they were hiding something. >> Damn. >> So, while the press and public were
eager to believe this new version of Alex and Derek's story, the team at the prosecutor's office, they found it to be
too convenient. Investigators did always suspect that Ricky had played some role
in Tererry's death, but they also believed the initial confession that Dererick had been the one to kill his
father. Prosecutor Rimmer said, "The boys weren't saying that he helped him. They were just trying to dump the whole
thing on Chavis. That made me suspicious because I knew that wasn't true. I knew
they were there. >> I mean, which I get that because the way that it he described this I mean uh the
sounds that the Yeah, Derek described the sounds that the bat made when it connected with a skull and it's pretty
accurate. >> It's pretty accurate >> and it's something that I don't think a kid would just pull out of their ass.
>> No, I don't think so either. But it does make you wonder >> if they were just
>> were you just there >> and you're just trying to remove yourself like a little bit further. it.
I mean, >> I could see it going. >> I could see I could see it that Ricky was the one who swung the bat and the
boys were there. >> Mhm. You never know, but again, I have no idea. >> So, Ricky Chavis did go on trial for
murder in August 2002 under the somewhat unusual circumstances of having one jury
decide the verdict on the murder charge and another jury decide the verdict in the arson and accessory charge. It's
like very strange. So, the trial for the charge of lewd and lascivious behavior against a child was scheduled for later
that year. As expected, Ricky Chavis's lawyer argued that while Ricky admitted to hiding the boys after the murder and
lying to the police, he did not help uh kill Terry King. Ricky Chavis said to uh
to reporters, "My big problem is that I like to help people. It ain't true that I was there. That's a setup. It's all I
can tell you." They were coached into it. Like, nah, your big problem is that you're a child predator.
>> Yeah, that's your big problem. >> So, from David Rimemer's perspective, he's the DA.
>> This strategy of putting Ricky Chavis on trial before Derek and Alex did come
with a pretty big risk. The evidence against Ricky was circumstantial, and charging him with murder kind of seemed
like a guaranteed loss. So instead, he ended up being charged with being a principal to murder,
>> which basically means that whoever is being charged is indirectly responsible
for the murder itself. >> Okay. >> They didn't commit it, but they're responsible.
>> Yeah. >> Which kind of makes sense in this case because you're talking about the murder
committed by two minors if >> that's it. >> Yeah. >> So for this strategy to work, Rimmer had
to call Derek and Alex to testify, which was another big risk. and he knew there
was a good possibility that they would tell the revised version of their story rather than their initial confession,
which did imply Ricky Chavis's involvement as a principle. >> Yeah. >> So, if they had stuck with their
original story, it could have worked out a little bit better because it already >> kind of put that there.
>> Exactly. But when they were called to testify against Chavis, they told their
version of the story that Ricky had been sexually abusing Alex and killed their father to prevent them from stopping the
relationship. When asked by David Rimemer why he changed his story after initially
confessing to committing the murder himself, Derek said, "Because I don't want to spend the rest of my life in
prison covering for somebody else's act." >> Wow. >> Which, mind you, I think he's 14 at this
point when he's testifying, but like >> that's so [ __ ] heavy. Also, you look at pictures of them, they look even
young. >> Oh, they look so young. >> They look like babies. >> It's actually like horrifying. It really
is. I couldn't handle. >> When I looked at the pictures, cuz that's the pictures I was talking about
when I said I looked up the case and saw the pictures, >> it's like them in court and [ __ ]
>> They look like they're like literally look like children. Like if you told me
they were both like eight and nine, I'd be like, "Yeah, >> yeah, they look young."
>> Yeah. >> So Derek explained on stand that Chavis had convinced both boys that their
father was mentally abusing them and that they could get away with the murder if they confessed and he couldn't. So,
they had to do this and claim self-defense and that they would get away with it and they'd all be able to
basically live happily ever after, >> which does make sense. >> Yeah, it does. So, regardless of guilt
or innocence, Dererick and Alex's appearance on the witness stand were a demonstration of how, like we were just
saying, truly young both of these boys were and how unbelievable the charges against them sounded. According to one
reporter, sometimes Derek couldn't follow the attorney's questions and couldn't remember all the details of the
murder, a prior confession, and his grand jury testimony. Which, like, of course he can. He's a kid. This is
incredibly overwhelming. And he has a multitude of other trauma. >> And to think if this kid did this,
you're just like, whoa. Like, >> so at multiple points during his own testimony, Dererick's eyes welled up
with tears when he talked about his father. Alex's testimony was equally heartbreaking, particularly when Rimmer
read parts of his diary out loud and asked the boy directly whether he had a quote sexual relationship with Chavis
and he replied, "Yes, I did." Which is a [ __ ] up question because a kid cannot
have a sexual relationship with an adult. >> They are being raped by that adult.
>> And unfortunately, the question needs to be posed that way. It does. >> Were you raped by this man?
>> Were you being sexually abused by this adult? That hits a lot harder to a jury.
>> Yeah. Not were you in a sexual relationship? You can't consent to that and it looks like this has been
happening for a while. >> Exactly. It's like this is a child predator convicted.
>> Damn. >> I hate when things are worded like that. It drives me cases like this
>> because it again it hits harder for a jury when it's said the right way >> and it like you said it changes things.
[music] >> [music] >> But after both sides rested their case, uh, Judge Frank Bell considered the
evidence and ultimately threw out the charge of being a principal to murder on the grounds that there wasn't enough
evidence to support the claim. But he said there was quote just enough evidence to proceed with a charge of
murder. >> So he wants a direct charge of murder. >> Okay. which is interesting. So, Belle's
judgment came after DA Rimemer played the boy's taped confession for the jury, where Derek makes it clear he committed
the murder and makes no mention of Ricky Chavis's involvement. And Judge Bell said there's plenty of evidence in this
trial of what he did after the fact, meaning Ricky, but the trial is to be decided at a later time. So with his
revised instructions, which were like pretty confusing, >> yeah, >> the jury went to their chambers to
deliberate whether the state had made a strong enough case to support a conviction for murder. The outcome of
their deliberation would be sealed until Derek and Alex's trial was complete, though.
>> Holy [ __ ] >> This is all super messy. >> Yeah. So, in his decision to keep the
verdict sealed, Judge Bell cited potential for the jury in Dererick and Alex's trial to be influenced over the
verdict in the Chavis case, and that's why he was having it sealed. >> Okay. >> Which like I get, but it's tricky.
>> It is tricky. It's for sure tricky. You can understand the thought process behind it.
>> Definitely. I think he was doing his best. So, Derek and Alex King's trial began in September and prosecutor David
Rimer, same prosecutor, presented pretty much the same case that he had in the Chavis trial. And when called to the
stand, both boys remained committed to their revised story. Alex told the court, "Ricky told us that there had
been a fight, that he he said he killed my dad to protect us." According to Alex, he and Derek hid in the trunk of
Mr. Chavis's car while Ricky was inside killing their father, and that they only
learned about the murder once they were back at Chavis' house later that night. He said, and this is awful, he said, "I
wanted to be with Rick because I was in love with Rick." He said, "My dad would have killed us before he would have let
us go. And that was all fed to him. >> Yeah, by the way. >> Yeah, absolutely. It was, you know,
>> and also he doesn't know. Check the trunk of his car for hair fibers. >> I know.
>> Their hair is going to be in there if they were in the trunk. >> Great point. Like a
>> That didn't happen. Damn. >> So, >> I would have been like, "Go find a hair in there. There's something in there."
>> Exactly. So, in closing, in his closing statement to the jury, David Rimemer reminded the jury of the brutal crime
that they were both accused of because remember, he's the prosecutor >> and that Terry is getting a little lost
in the sauce here is like, that's a brutal [ __ ] murder. >> And that's honestly such a good point to
bring up. He gets so lost in this story because it's insane >> cuz there's so much going on.
>> Yes. But I'm glad you said that. But he warned David Rimer warned the jury not
to let the ages of the accused influence their deliberation. He said, "You can't
go back there and say, "Those poor boys, they're so young. How could they do this
horrible thing? It would be a miscarriage of justice." Which is like you, it's true at one on one side that
like that like >> that like if Dur took a baseball bat to his father's head >> that you do have to consider that as a
brutal crime that shouldn't have happened, that took a man's life. I think on the other side of that coin,
>> they are children who have gone through an unimaginable amount of trauma. >> Yeah. And they're being abused at the
hands of Ricky Chafers. >> Yeah. And that and like that's the thing. There's been so much warping of
their I think this case is a little too nuanced for that closing statement in my
personal opinion. >> I can I completely agree with >> but also that he's a prosecutor with a
job. >> Yeah, exactly. He's got to win a job. But like it is absolutely more nuanced
than that because >> when you think of it from the side of Ricky Shavas >> like doing all that he did and
convincing these boys and grooming them and they're so young and like impressionable and have gone through
this trauma and he's literally sexually assaulting at least one of them. >> Yeah, exactly. At least one of them.
>> And it's like so that makes you go well [ __ ] like they're children into this. So, it's like, and then you
look at it from the other side of like, holy [ __ ] if that kid did just swing that bat into his dad's head and murder
him, that's a very adult thing that you just did. >> But it's also >> I have to think like when I say it out
loud, like that influence at that age >> has to be considered at the very >> least. Like, like you said, I think it's
just so much more nuanced than letting that be the And again, that's his job, right? But it's like you have to go back
there and you do. But that also makes the jury decision so much. >> I can't imagine sitting on this jury.
>> I don't know how what I would do on this jury because you have to consider every
part of this. >> Yeah. >> So he reminded them uh DA Rimer reminded the jury that Dererick and Alex's
original confession was supported by the evidence, which is correct. Yeah. >> And that they only changed their story
once it seemed positive that they could pin this murder on somebody else, no matter how [ __ ] disgusting that
person is. Mhm. >> and diabolical. So, the jury deliberated for days, spending most of the time
analyzing the taped confessions given by Derek and Alex upon the initial uh arrest. One juror said later, "As we
listened to them one by one, the thing we came to right away was that they sounded contrived, but there were some
parts of it that I knew were true. When they describe how it sounded when their dad got hit, you could tell that they
had seen what had happened." >> That's where I sit is like in the room. >> Yes, they were in that room. They were
not in the trunk of a car. At the end of the day, >> I don't know who I think swung.
>> I have no idea. >> I could see it going both ways. >> That's the thing. >> But no matter what, in my opinion, at
the end of the day, I do think that at least Derek was in the room with what he described and the way he described it.
>> I think at least Derek was in the room. So, in the end, the jury concluded that
it seemed highly unlikely that Dererick and Alex had actually killed their father, but they were still responsible
because they opened the door to the man who had killed him, which >> it was like a plan.
>> Yeah. Which they believe to be Chavis. So, really, they're kind of like principles to murder, but they're that's
not the charge here. >> So, Alex and Derek were found both of them were found guilty on seconddegree
murder without a weapon. And that conviction carried a prison sentence of up to 22 years in adult prison, which
like I just have to say when you think of what they've already, at least Alex has been through already, you're going
to go send him to adult prison. >> That's the thing. It's like >> you're going to send that child to adult
prison after he, you know, he's already been abused. >> That by an adult sense, especially when
there's other things you can do. There's there's other options here. >> That's the thing. there's other very
viable options that will still give a consequence to an action. >> And again, I know that this is a very
nuanced case, but I'm looking at those >> key parts of it where you're going to send him to adult prison. Like I can't
imagine hearing that as somebody that like as a family member of his and the the main thing here is what is that
going to do, >> right? Because the whole thing, the whole thing that we're supposedly
looking for here is rehabilitation. Sending a child because he's now 13 at this point to an adult prison, I don't
think is going to be a good stepping stone in his rehabilitation. >> He is going to be so further traumatized
that he's going to be lost, struggling to even exist as a human being after that. and we will find that he was
>> and he's going to learn the worst kind of [ __ ] you can possibly learn and he's
going to be ret-raumatized in a myriad of ways. It's like >> and we will see that he was
>> and that's the like why are you not why is no one why are all of these adults
not thinking about that? They're all thinking yes this crime it's brutal. There needs to be consequences that
people face for this. Absolutely. Terry King lost justice here. You know what I mean? like his and his family deserves
justice, but to put him in an adult prison at 13 years old and honestly like you do have to think about this family
because this family it lost their like Terry's mother lost her son. Yeah. >> But now she's facing losing her two
grandchildren who she's lost before. >> Yeah. Exactly. Like this is a lot. >> To me the the easy thing for everybody
that should have been in front of everybody's face is some some adult should have stood up there and said
what's this going to do? >> Yeah. They should. What are we getting out of this? >> I think in my personal opinion,
>> don't we want to help in this case? They shouldn't have been tried as adults.
>> No, it's >> I just don't think they should have. >> It's like that trying as an adult and
giving an adult sentence in an adult prison is like that an adult prison. What the [ __ ] do you think is going to
happen there? It's like no, they need to be in a place where they can get help. >> Yeah.
>> To become a better person. Yeah, I don't think >> as their frontal lobe is developing.
>> I don't think we were thinking about that in the early 2000s. >> Wild. >> It's upsetting.
>> That's really wild. >> So, that was the sentence. And mind you, they didn't get sentenced to that, but
that was what they were facing. In the days that followed the verdict, the outcome of Chavis's trial was unsealed.
He was found not guilty of murder. >> Wow. >> Now, remember, he has other trials to go
through, but he was found not guilty of murder. That's wild. >> So, between the announcement of the
verdict, but before the sentencing phase of the trial, Judge Bell considered the
situation and made a surprising decision, which Judge [ __ ] Bell. He said, "There's no question in my mind
based upon legal arguments and trial transcripts that David and Alex King did not receive due process." Yeah.
>> And I fully agree. From Belle's perspective, Rimmer's choice to try Ricky Chavis for the same crime before
he tried Dererick and Alex was a violation of their rights, and it influenced the jury.
>> Yeah. It also seemed absurd that a separate jury could have found Dererick and Alex guilty of participating in a
murder supposedly committed by a man who previously had been found not guilty of
the same murder. >> Yeah, that's wild. >> None of it makes any sense. >> So, under the circumstances, and this is
crazy, or this next part is crazy. So under the circumstances, their defense team immediately submitted for a motion
for a new trial and Judge Bell denied that motion. But instead, he sent the case to mediation,
which is a very unusual process where the prosecution and the defense teams have to come together to find a
compromise that they both find suitable. >> H >> which is like this doesn't happen.
>> Yeah. [laughter] Like >> it happens very very rarely, >> especially in something like this. Like
mediation is like for divorce cases like [laughter] just like chill murder be like do you want the the sofa and
>> that Yeah. >> So after several weeks of mediation Rimmer the DA offered a plea deal that
the defense found reasonable. Derek and Alex would plead guilty to thirdderee murder give an honest confession and in
exchange Derek would serve eight years in a juvenile facility and Alex would serve seven.
>> Okay. >> So that's better. >> Yeah. It's not awesome. >> No. >> But it's better.
>> Yeah. >> And they did have to serve some kind of prison time. A man lost his life.
>> Oh, 100%. And it's a juvenile facility. It's a juvenile facility. >> That was my main concern. A consequence
has to be had here. >> You can't solve problems by taking an aluminum bat to people's heads. And kids
do need to know learn that >> with a consequence. I mean, you can't just be like, "Don't do that again."
Like, that's a pretty big deal. Mh. >> So it's like you need but they need to be in a place where and again I don't
not every juvenile facility >> I don't know how much juvie how how much better juvie is than adult prison but
it's got to be at least a little >> it's at least better in the fact that you're not being put in there with grown
ass adults like that's >> right >> that's different. So there's that. >> But who I it wasn't good for either of
the prison system is very [ __ ] up. >> I was going to say the whole the whole system is so flawed and and [ __ ]
>> It is. So when the time came to give their confessions, which was part of the
deal, like I said, the story told by both of them was very, very similar to their first confession that they
immediately gave after their father's death. So that and this is their quote unquote honest confession.
>> So that likely could be what happened. >> Okay. Still, I don't know what I believe.
>> I have no idea. >> So in the wake of the boy's plea deal, Ricky Chavis went on trial for arson and
for being an accessory to murder after the fact for aiding in a bedding. After a brief deliberation, he was found
guilty on both counts and ultimately sentenced to 30 years in prison. >> Oh, hey. All right. Bye.
>> In his defense, his lawyer argued that the sentence was seriously disproportionate relative to the light
sentences given to Alex and Derek. >> I'm sorry. >> A 12 and 13year-old. >> I'm sorry. What
>> he said? It's just simply not fair. This is politics, judge. This is a persecution, not a prosecution.
>> It's not fair. Scott, >> life's not fair. Babe, >> look at this. It's not fair that he's a
pedophile. >> It's not fair that he's a pedophile. It's not fair the life that these two
kids lived. >> Yeah, it's not fair that he literally consistently ruins the lives of
children. So, >> thanks. >> One year later, Chavis was acquitted of the charge of lude and lascivious acts
upon a minor, which is absurd. He's literally a no. He has a history of being a child predator and another
child. Like, come on. Do you think that was just like happen stance that he was like, I'm not happen stance.
>> I'm going to say that this guy did this. He also aided and abetted two [ __ ]
minors. That's weird. >> Like, come on. >> In this case, that's [ __ ] weird. >> So, in 2008, Alex King was released from
a juvenile detention in Florida. And he went to actually live with one of the authors of the book that we linked in
the show notes, Katherine Mediko, who was a journalism professor at the University of West Florida. And he
became close with her during his time in detention. One year later, Derek was released from the Lancaster Correctional
Institution and lived temporarily with his grandmother before he found his own place to live. After their release, they
really didn't make an attempt to reconnect with their living relatives or each other,
>> which there's a lot of [ __ ] going to say there's a lot of [ __ ] to unpack there.
>> In 2009, they did participate in a reunion episode on Dineine, and that was the first time they had seen each other
since they plead guilty to the murder. >> Whoa. when asked whether he thought they
would try to maintain contact going forward. Alex said about Derek, "I've spent very little time with him actually
throughout my life." And that's true. Yeah. He said, "We've not really had much chance to form any bonds or any
real relationships or anything." >> That's the thing. It's not like these were like tight brothers who spent their
entire 13, 12, and 13 years together. >> They had a long period of time where they didn't know each other.
>> They were like five and six when they were removed from their house and placed
into foster care. Alex went back when he was I think Alex was only gone for about
a year or so and then it was seven more years before he was reunited with his brother.
>> Like he shows up at 13. >> He shows up at 13 and then 2 months after that >> this happened. They've had 2 months
essentially >> basically >> of bonding time. So really I that doesn't shock me. >> No, it's not shocking.
>> Yeah. So, tragically though, whatever relationship they did or could have had
in the future was cut short on April 23rd, 2024 when Alex King died from a drug overdose in Montana,
>> which is tragic >> because it's just >> it's the worst they lived. Yeah, it was
just Yeah. >> As of now though, Derek King is still alive and he lives with family in
Florida. >> Damn. So that is that's a tragic story all the [ __ ] way around. >> All around.
>> Like >> none of that was good. >> Nobody won. No. >> Nobody won in their >> No.
>> And it was from the start. From the very >> from the start of their lives. >> Yeah.
>> It's all there was no chance whatsoever. >> And then it feels like it was and it and
it is true. It's like this this Ricky guy and and now you can realize too cuz it for some reason it like escaped me
while you were saying it that Alex had been with Terry for most of his life. So he had known Ricky for much longer
>> than he had been Derrick had only really known this guy for a couple of months.
>> And remember Ricky was introduced to Alex when he was like pretty young and he was alone with Alex for a long time.
So he had a long time sat there and volunteered to watch Alex while Terry was at work and Terry just
thought he was being a good friend. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it's so sad. You can't trust anyone.
I swear. >> No, you can't. >> You really can't. >> You can't. >> And it becomes more and more apparent.
Oh, >> that's horrific. Yeah. >> And >> it's really tough because you don't obviously you have no idea what happened
in that house on a dayto-day basis. >> No, >> but it really does look like Terry was
being painted as something that perhaps he was not. >> Yeah. >> Because it was being planted. It's It
very much seemed to have been planted because in Alex's own words like he Ricky told him that he was being abused
>> and then Derek was just kind of like he just like stared me down. And you also
have to realize that an abuser is the person who told the child that they were being abused by somebody else
psychologically. >> That's an important detail. So it's like and so it's he's not here to defend that
claim and that sucks. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] >> Yeah. So I think we should end this with
a fun fact. >> Yeah. >> And I just found one that is really truly beautiful. >> Oh, cool.
>> Dolphins have names for each other. >> [ __ ] Are you kidding me? I found this
on Cosm Cosmopolitan and it says, "According to National Ge Geographic, dolphins use a unique whistle to
distinguish between different members in their pod which serve as dolphins have names for each other."
>> Oh, I love that. >> I love dolphins. >> I dig that. [laughter] >> I just want to think about dolphins
right now. >> I really like that. And I want you all to think about dolphins right now.
>> Just whistling their names at each other. >> Just whistling. Just >> Yeah. Hey, buddy.
>> Yeah. Another fun fact that I just like sometimes dolphins remind me of dogs and
I was just thinking of my dog Dolores and last night she was very tired and Drew kept singing this [singing] girl is
so tired [laughter] and it was very funny. I love that a lot. Thank you. I like that a lot.
>> So yeah, fun facts [laughter] fun facts and fun happenings. >> I also liked how you you introduced that
with um my dog Dolores. [laughter] They like introduced her again like Dolores. >> Just in case you weren't aware of who
the [ __ ] she is. My girl Dool. >> This is my girl Doolo Katana Isaac. >> Oh, I love that a lot. Um, what a
horrific tale. And go learn about dolphins, please. >> And watch your dogs and watch
Frankenstein. Yep. I said Frankenstein, which was strange. [laughter] >> Just watch it.
>> I'm upset and I have to go now. >> Yeah. We love you and we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it. Wee.
>> But I you don't go learn about dolphins and sing to your dogs. Yes, please. >> And be good to each other and protect
children. >> Yes. >> And beat the [ __ ] out of anybody that doesn't protect children. Just kidding.
I don't condone violence. Unless it's against child predators. I should go. I'm saying crazy things. [laughter]
>> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from https://www.purple-planet.com Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo

Brief Summary

The episode details the murder of Terry King by his sons, influenced by Ricky Chavis, exploring family dynamics and legal implications.

Key points

The Discovery of Terry King. Terry King is found dead in a house fire, leading to a complex investigation.
Confession of a Child. Derek confesses to murdering his father, shocking the detectives.
The Boys Become Suspects. Derek and Alex are arrested for their father's murder, shocking the public.
Ricky Chavis: The Manipulative Predator. Ricky Chavis's influence on the boys raises questions about his role in their father's death.
The Troubling Diary Discovery. A diary found in the ashes reveals alarming entries about Ricky Chavis and Alex's feelings.
Shocking Indictment Twist. A grand jury indicts Ricky Chavis for murder after secret testimony from the boys.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This has opened up a lot more.

Detective Sanderson realizes the complexity of the case.

7:57WatchJan 1, 2026

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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