The Pamela Smart Case, Part 1 | Morbid | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this is morbid [Music] there's a [ __ ] fruit fly in my face
and he's about to catch these goddamn hands it's fruit fly season you get the apple cider vinegar out fellas get it
out everyone these little [ __ ] it's that time of year someone's gonna be like I love fruit flies and you
shouldn't kill them you [ __ ] um no they're not great no sorry I'm sorry I'm not a fan I will never be a
fan just like I'll never be a fan of house centipedes oh God yeah even though I we
got to see a lot of our Network um babies this the last week yeah and I was talking to Sean
um from moosely horror go listen to it it's great and he was saying he would much prefer a
house centipede over a cockroach and I said I would take him either please you know what I just heard in my head choose
your fighter that's a yes that's basically the conversation we had and I can't choose I don't want either no
that's a Sophie I can't do it yeah I can't do it no and actually yesterday this is pretty funny and also
embarrassing oh I like this story I was getting I was getting it was Mother's Day so I got my like allotted you know
however much time just by myself to get ready like that was much like any time I
just want to take a shower alone like without kids being like hello like can I ask you questions while you're showering
and just like put makeup on do my hair you look super cute in your hair I was like damn appreciated that's what
happens when I get uninterrupted time to do my hair but I was doing that and I had picked up my towel to get something
in my hair tie a black hair tie fell out of it onto the bathroom floor and then somehow
it rolled on its side I've seen that so it rolled very quickly across the floor I thought it was some kind of awful bug
that fell out of my towel and I yelped so loudly I don't blame you I have never yelped like that for like a natural
reaction you just yelped I yelped straight up yellow like my dog it was like a I can't even recreate it
because it was just a real like organic nervous system response can happen at least you don't even know of but when it
settled on the floor and I said oh that's a hair elastic I was very embarrassed all by myself
that's that's funny though it was funny but it was very embarrassing no one was there to witness it but it was
embarrassing did you law let yourself I did I laughed immediately afterwards but
I was like damn that was really ridiculous and then you look in the mirror and you're like that's a moment
we just yeah literally like I looked at myself and I was like don't tell anyone that there you are telling everyone here
I am that's hilarious but yeah that's how afraid I am of things that run really fast on the floor I don't like it
nobody needs that many legs no no like thank goodness I have two dogs now who will eat everything that runs across the
floor ew I don't want them to eat a house centipede yeah they're fine they're good all right how do we change
the subject they're also going to be [ __ ] huge these dogs what are you not gonna be they already are man I'm
getting huge and they're just gloops they're like 35 pounds yeah they're like huge Dickens McGee's again big and
they're gonna be like 100 pounds those about ladies those are my hellhounds 200 pounds of
badassery oh yeah they are they're literally gonna be a hundred pounds each I think and like give or take we're
basically they're gonna and they're already like ready to protect my kids um with their lives yeah I'm just gonna
train them to like eat people alive yeah I'm totally kidding so don't call like an animal shelter or something I don't
know I'm not training them to eat people don't worry no no never they just eat like
dog food yeah and like they'll just eat you if you're a dick yeah don't be a dick yeah because they'll eat you don't
need to because my dogs will eat you plant and Sydney will eat your ass so I'm just kidding everybody but they're
great and you know now I think it's time to get into some true crime because we have had our chitty chat our little chit
chat a little Chit Chat Chit Chat pit pat um yeah this is honestly a long one settle in and it's gonna be a two Potter
oh we got a two Potter so get ready for a cliffhanger my guys oh my goodness yeah all right I'm ready we're going
over especially because it's like you know like five years of morbid holy [ __ ]
let's do big cases Elena did five parts of the HH Home Series which if you haven't listened to that eat yourself
back there and now I'm doing a really big story also about somebody from New Hampshire look at that except my whole
thing takes place in New Hampshire oh she doesn't like Vibe around the country thank goodness she doesn't or the the
world I should say no no she doesn't do any of that we're gonna be talking about
Pamela Smart today I know that name you know that me too I feel like a lot of people like at least here in New England
are familiar with that name yeah but if it's a name you've never heard of or it doesn't ring a bell quite yet we'll get
a stat at the beginning here it is here it is honey so one of the key people at the center of the story obviously is
Pamela yummy I believe her maiden name is wohas or vohas okay I tried to look it up and it like nope nowhere they were
like no you type in w-o-j-a-s pronunciation and it gives you many many pronunciations for every other word I
love that yeah so I tried you gave it a shot I watched her do it she did it was here yeah so anyways Pam Pammy was born
on August 16th 1967 in Miami Florida she was the second of three children born to
John and Linda wilhos there you go no John and Linda they had gotten married pretty young and in the early years of
their marriage and as parents they struggled to make ends meet but both of them worked super super hard John worked
at a printing company and Linda was a stenographer whoa I know we got stenographers again stenographers in the
house wow but so they both worked like super super hard and eventually that hard work paid off and they were both
able to kinda climb that corporate ladder good for them so now they were more like upper middle class and they
had money to spend on their kids that their parents never really had to spend on them but at the same time they were
living in late 60s early 70s Miami and while their neighborhood was a safe place to live the rest of Miami was not
exactly the safest at this point in time violent crime was on the rise social tensions were flaring so John and Linda
were going back and forth throughout the years deciding on whether they should stay or if they should move back to mass
where they had both grown up masks you say Massachusetts Massachusetts out of that place but the decision kind
of made itself for them when the riots in Miami started now if you're not familiar with the Miami riots they did
take place in 1980 after an all-white jury acquitted four policemen who had beaten a black man Arthur McDuffie to
death which like really scary how history repeats itself hmm they were like yeah
we should get out of here yeah so they had both grown up actually in Lowell Massachusetts and they were so weird to
hear like I know you know not a lot of like our stories are this close to no and this one's like I was in New
Hampshire this past week yeah like I was like in this area yeah so they had both grown up in Lowell and
they would always take their kids to New Hampshire during summer vacation so after thinking about it for a while they
decided you know what why don't we move to New Hampshire like we love it so much
we love to spend our summers there why don't we move to Windham New Hampshire and it was in 1980 that they decided to
do that now Windham was a safe quiet town and the nearby areas provided a lot of job opportunities so they knew it was
going to be like a good move yeah John actually got a job at Boston's Logan Airport oh hey which it was weird to
write Boston's Logan Airport because it's just Logan to us it's just Logan and he actually eventually became a
pilot damn and flew commercial jets for Delta wow good for John isn't that crazy
that's badass he made really good money and he was able to provide a lot for his
kids like as far as home and activities were concerned but because his job was as a pilot and he worked for a
commercial airline he did have to travel a ton and he was away from the family for stretches of time yeah that's a big
toss-up I'm always amazed at Pilots imagine just what if you're [ __ ] flying through the air like imagine
being like yeah I just fly planes for a living that's my job is I just bring 180
people onto this plane and then I fly them across the country and then I have to land it safely and do it all again
like an hour later like if you're a pilot listening pour one out for Pilots because my my guys my gals like you are
whoa also imagine how fun that would be yeah I would love to fly well you can't but I would love to fly a plane I would
love that I mean I imagine if you are a pilot you love to fly so I'm sure it is a [ __ ] Blast for them just like
yeehaw and also Pilots always make me feel better whenever I talk to a pilot they're always very like good at making
you understand how safe flying is I'm always like I trust you yeah I trust you with my life literally so I guess you
would have trusted John I would have another good job he did love uh yeah I'm pretty sure okay cool but
the thing was he was struggling with his family especially like his wife and his
kids because that's what your family is um but because he had to be away for so long
and most of Pam's high school friends they have a ton of memories about her mom but they don't really remember her
dad that much because he was away yeah now some of those close friends that is tough but some of those close friends
who did remember Pam's dad really just remembered that he and Pam were never close hmm one of those friends Sonia
Simon would put it that Pam quote didn't really have a close relationship with her dad but then again he really wasn't
home much I think she thought he was kind of cheap which is like oh I think he's just working he's trying and the
thing is like from what I read at least again I did not grow up in this house I don't think he seemed very cheap I think
it was more that he wanted his kids to know how it took hard work to make money well they had lived through living
paycheck to paycheck and dime to Dime yup they know what it's like to have to stretch that dollar as far as you can so
getting money after that I think it's like you are automatically still in that mindset of like I need to make this last
yeah so you make smart decisions with your money to be honest so just trying to like make it last and you know
they're teaching their kids that like like for instance Pam was to get a job when she was 13. yeah and I think that
was probably the age back I'm sure so I think she was like why do I have to work
so hard yeah like you have money why am I not doing this yeah it's like typical kid [ __ ] exactly but I also can't
imagine like one of my kids describing our relationship is like I wasn't really close to her that she was kind of a lot
like that would be like oof I would think you know like that's a eek yeah that's a knife right there yeah and also
it's like it's not like he was off on the weekends like gambling and like picking up girls he was just being a
pilot but like I said Pam got a job when she was 13. it doesn't sound like she was that happy about it uh but it was
right when they moved to New Hampshire she worked part-time at a bakery and also a Dairy Queen which like makes me
want one of those chocolate dipped cups oh yeah so [ __ ] good the swirl now later people seem to think that Pam
had it a little hard at home and they felt like she grew up too fast but these were like her friends talking okay those
friends would point to little things like the fact that her room was very tidy [ __ ] and span at all times and she
didn't have posters hanging up for magazines or anything like that like you would expect but it's like if if that's
how hard it was like oh no well that's the thing it's like okay sure that I guess that could be like okay what
that's a a different way of having a room as a teenager yeah but I also had some of my best friends that was with
their room it was like and I know their family life and it was perfectly fine same here I literally were that kind of
person maybe she was just a minimalist yeah that's the thing I minimalists [Laughter]
always back to tick tock always but either way even though Pam had been uprooted and moved halfway across the
country at a pretty shitty time in her life and her home life was like maybe a little rigid yeah she still maintained
her personality okay she was known at school and in public as somebody who was assertive outspoken and had a great
sense of humor she really had an easy time making friends especially because she moved when she did like some people
might struggle with that but she did not and in high school or she went to a high
school with over 2 000 students because the high school that she went to um is it was like in a smaller town so
they take kids from the surrounding towns and it's one of those kind of high schools where it's like multiple towns
in one oh okay which is never fair when you play them in sports I was just gonna
say I used to hate this we have one that like um you know in Massachusetts is this in this is in New Hampshire this is
in New Hampshire so it's not the same because we have one I was like is this the one but we have one in Massachusetts
that I used to hate playing in softball all because it was just like they they cut more Pickens yeah way more pictures
and they always [ __ ] cream Dusty softball it was so embarrassing they also had one picture that [ __ ] loved
to hit people on purpose was that picture me no no but she would always hit me and I would get so pissed anyways
enough reminiscing about softball Pam went to high school like that but she was among one of the most popular
students which is really saying something I guess with all those students yeah with all those
students you know her sophomore year she became the class president and she also
earned a spot on the cheer team all good things well yeah it's awesome things that are good but at the same
time she still had what people would call her Dark Side her Dark Passenger Allah Dexter yes one of her classmates
after they graduated said about her I think she was an insecure person I don't think she thought she was better than
everyone else but she wanted people to think she was I know a lot of people like that we all do now Pam always
wanted to be the center of attention especially if that attention was coming from guys and she was known to be super
aggressive if she thought somebody was stepping on her toes no matter what the situation was if he took something she
thought was hers you were done for okay now you can argue that maybe her possessiveness came from a place of
knowing that she worked hard for something and she wanted to guard that thing that she had worked so hard to
achieve but by all accounts she never really did work that hard for anything she had her father would later say quote
Pam was the kind of kid who could get good grades in Excel without putting in all that effort you know the kind of kid
you always hated in high school Pam would get the get the a with one quarter of the effort damn which like is kind of
relatable because I didn't study that much but I always did pretty awesome relatable
I totally get that but it's also been said that she did what she wanted to do when she wanted to do it no matter what
the effect was on anybody else oh that's not good at all we don't love that no Stephen sawicki I believe is how you say
it he wrote teach me to kill which is a great reference on this case I would definitely read it he wrote Pam was
always the student who would steer the classroom discussion away from whatever the teacher had planned on talking about
hold on I [ __ ] that up I'm gonna start that over Pam was always the student who would
steer the classroom discussion away from whatever the teacher had planned to talk
about to what Pam wanted she often undermined them to draw attention to herself wow that would annoy the [ __ ]
out of me if I was the teacher I would be really pissed yeah I would not like that at all he also wrote that as her
High School career went on school officials were catching on to Pam's waist oh she was suspected to have
rigged the election that won her class president sophomore year she rigged an election allegedly allegedly uh she did
not run again her junior year but I but she did rig the election allegedly a sophomore year they also think that they
also thinked I just I mean they think they also thought that Pam may have stolen money from the class funds like
she was skimming off the top while she was President she was a straight-up politician and she was drinking on
school grounds she was a straight-up politician she really was she said I'm ready for the White House
let's go honestly all the way to the top they were like we suspect that um she rigged the election skimmed off the top
and he was like real boozy while doing yeah I was like give that girl a seat in the Senate honestly but while the adults
around Pam were questioning her behavior and finding her attitude uh pretty disrespectful her friends were starting
to idolize her oh she was a bad [ __ ] in their eyes oh yeah bad [ __ ] alert to
them she was this super cool metal chick who worshiped Van Halen and prioritized
always having a good time over everything else we're not here for a long time we're here for a good time my
God no according to her senior yearbook Pam's greatest life Pursuit was quote to
dance the night away with David Lee Roth I'm a singer of Van Halen for those that
don't you know wow yeah what a Pursuit yeah an old friend Laura talked to reporters about Pam in 1991 and she told
the that Pam was quote extremely energetic very involved in always smiling everyone wanted to be close to
her I guess they felt that some of her power would rub off on them hmm so just like it was a power thing very varying
degrees of people people's opinions on Pam but those not infatuated with her started hearing rumors about her being a
little promiscuous cue up Nellie's promiscuous Nelly Furtado right promiscuous yeah yeah you're right yeah
right it's Nelly Furtado and the guy yeah uh am I throwing you off didn't think so
no yeah oh my god look it up oh I was gonna say because everyone's screaming right now and I feel so bad everybody
might be screaming in a second too because I also didn't look up this pronunciation by accident but some
classmates called her secca or Sika um it was a reference to an adult film actress Seka known as the Platinum
princess of porn oh yeah I can I don't know what that is but okay that's um Timberland Timberland
that's what that's what it was my goodness I almost I was like it's not Timberlake I don't know Timberland oh he
Timberland was like in every mom loves Timberlands cool I'll listen music is what I meant cool music he was in
every cool he was in every cool music of the time oh mate no he was but yeah yeah
even ma likes him she does well she loves him well uh but yeah I don't know who Sika or Seka is well she's the
Platinum princess of form or she was back then cool so they called her that because she was a little promiscuous
girl damn um but outwardly she actually seemed to embrace the nickname other students they skipped the references and
they simply referred to her as wham bam thank you Pam I'm not I'm not joking I'm not joking they called her wham bam
thank you Pam okay which just reminds me of Kesha it just reminds me of uh the office
with Pam Beasley there you go and now instead of saying Bam Bam he says pam pam I like that no Pam's High School
boyfriend who in my opinion sounds like a grade a douchebag he would later tell the Boston Globe wild about Pam saying
uh he would tell her he would talk to them about her and he would say she was a wild wild girl we were doing
everything your parents tell you not to do cool you're so cool I like that's so a
cool guy it gets so much worse they dated from the beginning of their senior year in September until May and he was
apparently the one to break things off uh one day in the school parking lot and literally told the Boston Globe
I just got sick of her that's terrible but that's how I was in high school oh man everybody watch out for this cool
guy I'm like I have a feeling that's where you peaked oh put on your Shades the star shines too bright for all of us I
love that he said to the Boston Globe journalists like yeah I wasn't I was just a [ __ ] [ __ ] it was just a
dick of you I was sick of you yeah that's it like how old are you now dude okay my
guy that's stupid and I I really do think there but even though Pam Also may have seemed to Peak in high school and
she was popular in Windham she always missed Florida because remember she's a Miami girl so yes there is until she was
like 13. and she decided after graduating from Pinkerton high school that she wanted to head to Florida State
University in Gainesville okay now she enrolled there in 1985 and then she would start there but then later she
transferred to the Tallahassee campus okay and she was studying media performance
so she tried to keep in touch with her friends from high school but she was starting to find that she just didn't
have that much in common with them anymore which happens oh yeah so as those friendships drifted she actually
had no problem making new friends in Florida and actually even in back in New Hampshire when she would come back for
breaks oh wow she made new friends over her first break from school damn and it was through one of her New Hampshire
friends Terry Schnell that Pam would meet Greg smart they had met in passing before but it
was at a New Year's Eve party in 1985 that they would really hit it off Greg was also from New Hampshire he was
born September 4th 1965 in Londonberry New Hampshire I said Londonberry it's Londonderry you
know you know we're all here we're all here his parents were Bill and Judy smart Now Greg was like a super active
kid from a really early age he had two brothers Dean and Rick and the smart family loved to take vacations together
they were always in attendance at each boys Little League games and they're genuinely just a very close family unit
adorable family yeah they really were if you see pictures of all of them I'm like
oh my God I love you guys I love you guys love you guys now Judy smart described her son as a late bloomer and
she said while other kids around him competed for spots on teams and clubs Greg was pretty shy and seemed happy
just blending into a Crowd Oh he was somewhat reclusive too and even into his high school years just kind of blending
into the crowd was his thing oh yeah I just want to be there yeah and he did just well enough in school to get by
but after high school he decided to skip college and go right to work and he started working for a company called
Consolidated Utility Equipment services that sounds awesome he assembled the heavy equipment truck booms damn which
reminded me of your youngest because yep they love truck booms I sure do and construction equipment but around that
time he met Terry Schnell who would later introduce him yeah they actually got to be like super duper close friends
and people were speculating a ton at that point on their close closeness they were like are you sure you guys are just
friends Terry and him are Pam and him Tyrion okay but they really were just platonic friends they were like yeah
we're just we're just friends we're just friends we're just friends Terry said Greg was basically a stud he didn't want
a girlfriend he just wanted to have some fun he's just here for a good time he's
just here for a good time and like Pam Greg was a big fan of heavy metal which I don't really know if this is heavy
metal uh Motley Crew and Van Halen uh yeah I mean at the time for sure Motley Crue was like well it grew it was
like heavy metal yeah okay yeah all right cool some heavy metal there you go but so they both love that but more
importantly and as as far as Pam was concerned Greg sorry I don't mean to interrupt you I think it's like hair
metal I think that would be like hair metal oh my God okay yeah I said that later in the in the thing because that's
what um Dave said I think that's it's hair metal for sure sorry I didn't mean to interrupt because they have hair and
they like walk it around while they meddle and like I think Motley Crew and all them were like um like very pretty
yeah like you know and I think that's what qualifies them as like hair metal okay like heavy metal ah I see I see
yeah so yeah I'm actually glad you interrupted to talk about her because as far as Pam was
concerned Greg fit the image she had in her head of the perfect guy he loved to party he didn't seem all too concerned
with building a respectable career his long rocker hair quote reminded her of the rock star John Bon Jovi oh my God
I the the topical references here are really great aren't they wild so of the time also if you look up a picture of
Greg when he was younger he had beautiful hair oh I'm sure he reminds me more of um the adorable little kid in
stranger things with super curly hair oh my God Dustin yeah because he has curly
hair yeah no even though Greg was completely uninterested in monogamy at first he and Pam did hit it off and they
ended up going out with each other a few times over Pam's winter break that year
they'd go sledding they'd go to the movies they were just getting to know each other
Now Greg enjoyed Pam's company and the fact that she was always down to party but he still wasn't interested in having
a girlfriend and especially not one that lived thousands of miles away in Florida
yeah so because of that he was pretty relieved when Pam went back to school after break but Pam on the other hand
returned to school desperately in love with Greg oh damn like fell in love with him that winter
break Greg is adorable he is I just looked it up I mean Greg is a cutie patootie he's super cute I'm gonna warn
you now that they are there are issues in their relationship that stem from both sides okay that's good to know so
don't like I just get I'm not gonna root for anybody here I know it's all bad but
like I get why they were both like into each other totally in the beginning like
totally get that totally agree yeah hair hair so their relationship actually started slowly like we know and somewhat
uncomplicated they would talk on the phone after Pam went back to school and they'd write letters to each other
and by Valentine's Day Pam upped the ante by using her cheap father's connections I'm like you're gonna call
him cheap and then you're gonna use his connections she used his connections at Delta to travel to New Hampshire at no
cost oh he's so cheap I'm like it kind of sounds like you're a little cheaper yeah seriously no she would do that
plenty more times through the long distance phase and by spring break of 1986 though Greg still wasn't ready to
commit to Pam quite yet damn actually he was still going on dates with another girl oh Pam would later tell reporters
quote he basically said that he didn't want to break up with her and that he didn't want to break up with me he
wanted to go out with both of us so I said well it's either her or me and he said okay I'll see you later
wow oh damn was pissed because she went into the situation fully thinking like oh I always get what I want so this
ultimatum he's gonna be like oh my gosh how could I lose Pam yeah but he was like okay bye
and give me a choice she was not expecting Greg to give up so easily damn so she caved as soon as he rejected her
ultimatum and they kept on dating while he was dating this other girl just it sounded like they were like in
the talking phase like this is very messy it's super messy it's also very 80s yeah with the hair with the hair
so over time though Greg did decide that he wanted to be with Pam and Pam only he
was ready for monogamy at some point yeah and in the fall of 1986 they had become completely exclusive okay love it
they were still doing long distance but Pam was able to pull her Delta Airline strings when she needed to and Greg
would make the trips when he had the money and could get time off from work okay by 1987 though it was getting
harder and harder to maintain the distance so Greg decided he was going to move out to Tallahassee and be with Pam
damn crazy Pam was able to be her complete self in Tallahassee since she wasn't living under her parents roof
anymore she could love her medal as much as she wanted to and this is where I said or hair bands if we're being honest
if we are being honest and she could also pursue the career that she wanted to in the entertainment industry she
landed a position through her program at school to be a news intern for WCTV which at the time and possibly now is an
affiliate of CBS and possibly no I'm like I don't really know who's to say who's to say nothing
now she also started working as a promotions director for the College radio station which was actually a
position she made for herself they didn't have any open positions and she was like that's fine I'll make one yeah
I mean if you want it you might as well make up a position that fits I kind of love that I I will say I do love that
now eventually that role led to her getting a new position as a DJ on the heavy metal show metal Madness this is
really 80s I love it oh it's against so much more uh 80s because Pam referred to
herself as she was DJing as the maiden of metal oh hell yeah and she spent one night a week playing all her favorite
records from bands like Van Halen Van Halen you keep saying Van Halen Van Halen it's Halen I don't it's a spirit
because I know that I know how to say it I think it's just a weird accent that I
have um she also is going to be a living in moment oh but I know this one Helen Van
Halen hahaha the loved Aerosmith and um Queensrÿche Queen's reach Reich I think it is
Queen's Reich she likes that queen band but not a ray Queen I think it's rake Queen's rake I don't know if somebody
will tell us moving to Florida it seemed like Pam's life and the vision she'd crafted for
her future were finally coming into Focus once he arrived in Florida Greg moved into his own apartment or yeah he
didn't move in with Pam straight away and his mother said it appeared to be quote from a refurbished Motel complex
adorable yeah his parents bought him the essentials they got his furniture in some decor and Pam kept living in her
dorm according to his mother Judy Greg never really liked Florida though he just stayed because of Pam which wow is
really sweet love but he missed New England a lot and he was just trying to get acclimated by going out with Pam and
her friends and eventually he made his own friends now his family back home was absolutely
shocked that he had made a move to Florida because they knew him mostly as this like non-monogamous recluse back in
New Hampshire I love it we're like wait what like what's happening excuse me you
moved to Florida to be in a monogamous relationship that's crazy and they were even more shocked when he and Pam ended
up getting an apartment together just after a few months of him being there shacking up shacking up not completely
by themselves because they worked with one or they lived with one of Pam's co-workers the situation was ideal for
Pam but she couldn't tell her parents about Greg living with her they had expectations that she was out
there to study work hard and get a good job not be distracted by a boy no because and they liked Greg but they
definitely wouldn't approve of Pam living with him okay A friend of Pam's from college would later tell Author
Stephen sawicki quote every time her parents came down Greg would move all his stuff out and go live with another
kid until they God are you kidding me like what a hassle that's intense you guys should just tell them you should
definitely just tell them a lot it's a lot to have to move out of your place of living every time her parents come I'd
be pissed move into a new dwelling every time they visit hey can I live with you
for a minute for a minute for a minute now in January of 1988 Pam got home from work one day in a super shitty mood she
just had a [ __ ] day she later recalled I don't know what happened but I was totally aggravated I had had the worst
day and I was crying and complaining about something so Greg was consoling her and he was like you know what like I
think you should take a shower that always makes you feel better I agree if you're pissed off go take a shower
and at first she didn't want to but he was like just take a [ __ ] shower Pam like you'll feel better and she was like
okay fine and when she got out she reached for her powder puff and when she lifted it she saw that Greg had left her
a diamond ring that she had told him she liked while they had gone ring shopping
just casually a few weeks before that's cute she said she opened it up and yelled oh my God and went on to say I
started crying and he wasn't even saying will you marry me so I started saying get down on your knee and finally I said
yes I'll marry you even though he never really asked me oh no so I don't know if
that was a proposal or if he was just like leaving a present here's this diamond ring present but also you can't
do that don't get a girl a diamond ring that you're living with if it's not the ring ring yeah so now they were engaged
okay whether he knew that they were going to be or not they were sorry and since he'd gotten to Florida Greg
was having a hard time finding work and he was getting by landscaping and taking
on other small jobs here and there but the engagement really started to seem to get him thinking more seriously about
the future yeah and according to my guy Steven sawicki My Guy Greg started to understand that the nice home and boat
and other possessions his parents had acquired would not come easily at 3 35 an hour yeah so he started thinking
realistically about joining his dad and his dad worked in the insurance business
okay so while Pam worked hard to finish out her last year at Florida State Greg started studying for and actually
eventually passed the exam to sell insurance in Florida now the insurance industry was
definitely not what Greg had envisioned for himself but he had seen his dad make
up comfortable and stable life for his family and he wanted the same opportunity now Pam knew that the
changes that Greg was making were for a better future for the two of them but there were some changes that came as a
total surprise to her and that maybe she wasn't super happy about one day for instance after Greg passed the real
estate exam and he got an interview with MetLife which is actually the company that his dad worked for he surprised Pam
while she was out for coffee with her friends he had gotten a haircut to look more
professional because like he couldn't be selling real estate or we couldn't be sure to selling insurance with like
crazy hair like a metal head right so he showed up and sat down next to her and she didn't even know it was him oh my
God uh but it didn't really seem like this change was welcome uh for hair loving Pam yeah now bigger changes came
a few months later when he surprised Pam again but I think this is a good surprise because he surprised her with a
Shih Tzu puppy as a graduation present I love that they'd been going back and forth deciding on whether or not to get
a dog over the last couple of months but they ultimately decided against it because they thought it would take a
strain on their budget but Greg saved up the money from his landscaping job so that he could buy the dog and he figured
that his new job MetLife and whatever work Pam was going to be able to find now that she had graduated they would be
able to afford the dog and she'd be happy about it that's so sweet now she actually wanted a Yorkshire Terrier at
first like that's what she really wanted so I think maybe she made that comment so she wasn't super excited about the
idea of a Shih Tzu but then she saw the little baby dog and she was happy I was gonna say it's a baby dog it's that's
just the best that's just my baby dog I would take any baby dog so she was happy
when she saw okay so I'm like girl she would later say that her heart melted and she immediately declared that it was
the best present she had ever gotten of course it is it's a baby doll it's a baby dog and they named the baby dog
Helen Helen Halen Van Halen oh my God I can't say it I know how to say it I don't think she knows how to say it
everyone get out of here it's Van Halen yeah but I can't say it keeps saying Helen I know because it it looks like
Helen when you read it so they named the dog Halen yeah okay he was named after their favorite band cute and now they
had a wedding on the horizon so they had a puppy they had they were gonna have a
wedding Greg's got this new job things seem to be falling into place of course uh but there were also some red flags on
both sides you don't say Here I am to tell you back in New Hampshire Greg had uh been known like we said as a Carefree
loner and After High School though he developed a strong personality and now just like Pam he liked to be the one in
control of things but so did Pam oh so two strong personalities in the house was starting to lead to more arguments I
wonder what their signs are uh he's a Virgo oh um she was born in August 16th I think that would make her
a [ __ ] why can't I think of this is it Leo you're right right okay so a Leo and a
Virgo yay do you know does that does that check like those feel like two strong personalities right I know Virgos are
I've lived with one uh yeah I created one those are two very strong personalities and people that want to be
in control of things I don't think that makes sense you know what I'm saying hold on now I gotta find me I had to
bring it back to your uh to your area of expertise I'm happy you did although I guess it's not my
expertise area anymore no you got it I got it you got it thank God I believed in you and you got it oh my goodness
thank you so much so yeah Avery you can pick it up right here yeah so yes two strong personalities a Virgo and a Leo
maybe it works for you but I don't think it was bound to work and I'm gonna tell you about a shitty
story that happened one night while they were still in Florida Greg and Pam decided to go out to a bar with some
friends Now Greg and his friends sounded like they were being a couple of jerks fun
they were making gross comments about the waitress right in front of Pam oh [ __ ] him up yeah [ __ ] them up [ __ ] them
up So eventually Pam had enough of the stream of inappropriate comments and she started arguing with Craig about it
she's like what the [ __ ] is your problem yeah no the argument escalated to the
point where Greg spit a mouth full of beer and on Pam oh like in her face that's not okay and he had to be
forcibly removed from the bar oh that would be the end for me it would also be the end for me uh throughout all that
throughout that fight and all the ones to follow Pam and Greg for some reason or another stayed committed to each
other okay like they said this is what we want you do you now and since Pam had graduated at this point there wasn't any
reason to stay in Florida anymore so they decided that they were going to move back to New Hampshire Greg figured
he could work with his well-respected and well-connected Dad and Pam now had a degree so she could find a job out there
yeah now Pam definitely wasn't against moving back home to New Hampshire after graduation because the cost of living
was cheaper and the rural nature of the state made it very safe I would say especially in comparison to Florida but
at the same time she also always kind of considered herself a Florida girl she liked the warmer climate she liked the
things you can do out there and she liked New Hampshire but she struggled with the harsh New England winter she
was that wasn't for her yeah so it wasn't the easiest transition moving back Greg on the other hand he had
struggled like I was saying from the moment he arrived in Florida so he was super happy to be back in New England he
loved the colder climate he loved doing winter sports and he was happy to be back with his family because like I said
they were super close family yeah it was hard to say super connected to them while living so far away and he was
happy to be back he was feeling like himself again he was settling into a new routine it was great
he actually got back to New Hampshire a few weeks before Pam did she stayed back
in Florida to finish the last of her responsibilities at school but when she did make her way back to New Hampshire
like I was saying the decision was not an easy one to make she'd spent four years trying to find career options out
in Florida and trying out different roles in the entertainment industry but at the same time she knew very well that
the actual paying jobs in the industry were few and far between and they usually required a person to move around
a lot if they wanted to advance professionally yeah and New Hampshire though at the same time was not the
state that you would move to for a high profile career in television journalism no and that's what she wanted and moving
back meant that she'd have to sacrifice that for a life of stability her best friend at the time Sonia Simon
remembered that Pam was really torn about this she said I remember her saying am I making a mistake should I be
going and following my dream this is like everything she ever wanted and all of a sudden she was faced with choosing
Greg in New Hampshire over being an actual reporter okay you know yeah but she did end up
moving back to New Hampshire she made the choice all right now there was one place she could apply to help Advance
her career in professional journalism over in New Hampshire it was the Manchester ABC affiliate WMUR
she applied and they rejected her oh so that was kind of that's an outfit so since there weren't a lot of other
options she went to work at a temp agency and then she landed a job as the New Media Center Director with the
school administrative unit 21. the job was in Hampton which was about 40 minutes from where she was living and at
the time she had to move back with her parents so Greg was living at his parents and she was living at her
parents okay now the job was a straightforward admin position she'd have to maintain and distribute the
audio and video equipment to the six schools within her District but there was also the potential to move up the
ladder and become more involved and also video production was still new and exciting at this point and so the school
board really hoped that the New Media Center would engage parents and students and lead to some positive press for the
district and Pam was the kind of young energetic person they were looking for so everybody collectively was pretty
excited about this for Pam the job felt like an ideal alternative to chasing her dreams of
journalistic stardom like she wasn't going to be a stock kid but she could be storage Jason and there you go perfect
way of saying it and the pay was really good at that point in time she was going
to be making uh 22 500 a year now the salary and benefits were great for somebody just out of college and the
work made it so that she was still connected to Media so she was still doing what she liked to do and she also
got her own office in the basement of winnicunit high school where she was pretty much left to do as she pleased
without any Superior working in the office with her yeah and she even got her own secretary whoa so she probably
felt like a big shot [ __ ] now like I was saying earlier when they moved back for
the summer and fall of 88 Greg and Pam were living separately with their parents until they could find a place of
their own but they both had really good jobs so it didn't take long for them to find a place to move into in January of
89 they moved into a condo together on Misty morning drive oh in Derry New Hampshire morning drive isn't that just
pretty I love that Misty morning dress imagine just waking up in your house on Misty morning drive oh I love a misty
morning doesn't Misty morning drive sound like a soap opera no you're saying it yeah it does yeah it definitely does
I like it yeah and their new place was just a five minute walk from Greg's parents who also lived in a condo in the
same complex adorable now the wedding was getting closer so they were in full-blown prep mode their plan was to
get married in the Catholic church so at the time they were going through the counseling sessions that you have to go
through if you want to get married in the church yeah and while they were going through that period Pam actually
got a call from somebody at WCTV which was the Tallahassee affiliate where she interned okay and they wanted to know as
she's planning her wedding and going through all of this they said are you interested in an on-air position with
our station whoa like everything she had ever wanted damn it was the call that the old Pam was waiting for but this Pam
was determined to commit to her married life so she declined wow that's shocking
I know Deborah keaney who had been Pam and Greg's roommate back in Florida said of this time she always wanted to be a
broadcaster and she loved the spotlight but she turned it down in order to stay with Greg it was because she loved Greg
so much and that was the truth damn it's wild to think that had she accepted that
job I would never be sitting here telling you this story that's really wild to think about like it's so crazy
how one decision yep can alter an entire course of events that's wild had she said yes to that who knows what would
have happened I know but she did not the world would be a different place it would technically yeah I think so you
know a little bit of it yeah so the wedding finally came after over a year of planning and on May 7th 1989 and I
said this in your thing I wrote which is weird because as I'm writing this that is tomorrow because remember something
happened in your story that was on May 7th and I was like wait me too yep so that's when they got married oh that's
so weird and Pam and Greg had a traditional ceremony at Sacred Heart Church in Lowell Massachusetts oh damn
and the reception was held in nearby Pelham New Hampshire they had more than 250 guests which stresses me the [ __ ]
out because as I'm planning my wedding I'm like oh my God no wait how many two more than 250.
that's a big ass wedding damn like I have 150 and I'm stressed I don't know 250 people nor do I that's the thing but
I think it's one of those things where your parents starts to ask you to invite people I'm like lucky position in my
friends yeah I'm in a lucky position where nobody's asking us to do that and I'm happy about it it just cooled me
yeah cool with me um and their wedding song was Honestly by the Christian heavy metal band it's either striper um it's
probably striper because it's definitely not stripper are you sure um yeah they're a Christian heavy metal
band are you sure yes I listened and I'm not gonna lie it does pop off in the chorus it pops off it
pops off in the horse [ __ ] I I recommend it for sure damn lick listening to it
now once the wedding was over they decided to have their stay in Bermuda their honeymoon stay in Bermuda which I
also 10 out of 10 recommend um no stories from Bermuda that I could find but pretty much as soon as they got
back from their honeymoon the cracks were starting to show in Pam and Greg's marriage which had lasted at that point
um all about a month I was gonna say Judy smart remember that's Greg's mother we're called one afternoon this is gonna
piss you off because like I said they both have faults Judy was just like sitting at Pam and
Greg's Place one day after the wedding and Pam showed her a list that she had written down with the names of people
who had given them money for the wedding next to the amount that they'd given which is normal like you got to do thank
you cards yeah but Pam went through the list with Judy and pointed out every single member of Greg's family who had
given them a quote-unquote small amount of money as a gift oh my God can you imagine sitting with your mother-in-law
and being like John's uncle gave this much and this guy gave this much I mean my god wow my mother-in-law would smack
me and should smack me my mother-in-law would just laugh yeah my mother would walk away not smack me but I would tell
her my mother-in-law would punch me in the face like if I was somebody's mother-in-law
I'd be like you talking [ __ ] on my family I just feel like oh who do you think you are like I can't imagine
having that on desk you are who are you but it wasn't actually really the first time that Judy had seen Pam act this
entitled apparently right before their wedding Pam's parents called Greg's parents and said that they were
concerned that Greg wouldn't be able to quote give their daughter the things in life that she deserved
wow basically they were like he didn't go to college he likes to party and he only just got a good job so like what do
you think about this like is he good enough for our kid wow and Judy said of the whole thing we had to sell Greg to
the wall houses like he was a piece of merchandise my God I'd be pissed what is happening like I don't think you guys
were meant to get that I was just gonna say this is a very strange way to begin your lives together I can't imagine Ma
and papa calling Drew's parents and being like I don't know like do you think he's good enough but like you know
what you should always be closing and I'm not sold on this guy yet like what oh let's go what give me a PowerPoint
presentation on why I should invest in this guy you have to literally like think that thought walk to the phone
dial the number wait to connect like there's so many stops along the way where you could have stopped yourself
yeah what you doing what you doing do it over there guys I don't like it now at this point to a lot of their friends Pam
and Greg did not seem like they fit together anymore no no they were fighting constantly and it was starting
to seem to everybody to everyone else like they enjoyed pushing each other's buttons they also both really seemed to
like to get attention from other men and women which um didn't go too well when it came to Pam's jealous nature
especially when it came to came to things that she considered hers and only hers
and finally their goals and Ambitions weren't the same Greg since he had cut his hair he'd started on a more narrow
path in the industry and he seemed at this point to be embracing kind of like a simple easy-going lifestyle he was
happy to stay in the town that he grew up in he'd go to a party or two he was just living yeah like a very normal
Chill Lifestyle it's just living but Pam wanted more she wanted that big career she wanted to acquire she wanted to
climb her way up the social ladder they were they had very different paths in life
but then at the same time while it had its rough points their marriage wasn't quite as strained as you might think
looking from the outside Greg and Pam they still enjoyed spending time together I guess
um they were at the very least a good example of Opposites Attract some people said okay it seems like everybody had
very varying opinions on the two of them thank you because my next thing was going to be like okay all right like I'm
I'm hearing a lot of different outlooks on what they are or what they aren't yeah it's even like Pam growing up
though like in the beginning some thought she was [ __ ] awesome other people were like ah she was dipping in
the school she's conniving conniving like that nobody is in the middle I feel like that was kind of it seems like that
some people just like that like they like being in the Middle where like nobody can
pinpoint them yeah I mean like they know who they are but nobody else does yeah and it's they only think like one
extreme or the other yeah and they're like a chameleon who can just slide on either side and yeah it makes sense and
I kind of think that like their closest friends were like yeah I don't think you
guys are working anymore and then maybe the friends that they weren't super close with or the people looking from
the outside were like no I think they're a great couple I know it's good you know
like whatever yeah they said Pam was the one who tended to dominate and control and Greg took what his friends
considered a let's go no problem whatever approach to life all right if Greg wasn't irritated with Pam all the
time though his friends and family absolutely were today it seemed to find Pam overbearing
controlling and they could tell that she felt threatened by Greg's close relationships
which that's not good yeah that's always a red flag Greg had a lot of close friends and making friends was easy for
him but now in this part of her life Pam was struggling to make new friends which
was new for her because she used to happen at the same time but now she's not and when she did make friends they
were according to my guy Stephen sawicki often younger than she was less educated
intended to admire Pam and her forceful personality okay so I feel like a lot of
people know somebody like this that likes to be friends with younger people in the sense of so that they look up to
them and admire them 100 because they're actually insecure and can't be friends with people their own age because people
their own age will call them on their [ __ ] yeah like people their own age will
be like you're really immature exactly and like you're not you're not being rational you're not being like an actual
adult about anything but people younger than them are like wow you're so cool and carefree and you've got like you
know anxiety exactly exactly now so depending on who you ask Craig and Pam's marriage might have seemed like somewhat
stable in the first few months that they were married but that's also most likely
because they hadn't gone through that much as a couple yeah I mean they just got married they weren't struggling with
money they still had that excitement of being newlyweds they had that whole thing yeah and they also had a house
full of things that people had bought for their wedding and a bank account filled with money that they'd also been
gifted so they were like living they were good and Greg had done really well during his first first year of selling
insurance he actually did so well that he won Rookie of the Year award oh damn but because of the rough points that
I've already told you about it wasn't long before the magic started to wear off and old habits were starting to
return Greg or no excuse me Pam would push Greg's buttons to get his attention he
would spit beer in her face and send her out of the room pissed off it was like a
vicious cycle yeah and one night things got even worse it was about seven months
after the wedding and Greg went out to Boston for a night with his friends oh damn he wasn't supposed to be gone super
late it was just supposed to be like a night hanging out with your friends uh but he didn't come home until the next
morning uh-oh he and Pam obviously got into a huge fight when he finally did get home and they spent that entire full
day fighting and the next day Greg woke up to a note from Pam that said you can't find me I'm not at my mother's
I'll be somewhere else don't even try to find me oof yeah yikes now somehow they got over
that okay um after a few days but things only continue to slowly get worse Judy noticed his mom that they weren't
spending a lot of time together and Greg seemed to be spending more and more time
by himself with his friends anywhere he could away from Pam damn on the weekends
he'd go out with his friends and if he wasn't with his friends he'd just go for drives around town in his truck all
right he just didn't want to be with his new wife marriage you know and adding more fuel to the fire was that Greg
wanted to start having kids and Pam didn't want kids yeah I don't know if this is the place you want to bring kids
into my gosh numero uno no you guys don't want to bring kids into this because it's not gonna fix it no and
then also like that's a conversation you have to have before getting married like
like you can't wait until later and be like oh wait you don't want kids like that sucks if you want kids you need to
be with somebody that wants kids if you're planning to lock yourself to someone for life
you got to know what what's going on here where are your ideals what are your principles what are your beliefs how do
you want do you want kids how do you want to raise kids because certain things are deal breakers like for me I
would never be with somebody that didn't want kids and a lot of people that's a deal breaker yeah either way and vice
versa like if you don't want kids you don't want kids yeah and you're not going to be with someone who is dead set
on having kids which is why you got to talk about that beforehand so Greg wanted them Pam did not Greg also wanted
to put a down payment on a house Pam didn't want to move Pam and Greg were drifting apart and
they hadn't even been married for a year yet so while Pam's personal life was taking hit after hit after hit after hit
her professional life was actually going really well she was doing great at work
and she decided in the fall of 1989 that she wanted to get more involved with something called project self-esteem
it was the high school's drug and alcohol awareness program like essentially dare yeah of which we have
over here um and it was going to be mandatory for all incoming freshmen it was mostly run
by students but it needed to be overseen by an adult staff member and Pam volunteered to be that staff member okay
the school agreed and it was via project self-esteem that Pam would meet a boy named Billy Flynn and his group of
friends uh oh I know that name you sure do now I'm I'd probably say it later but
it's important to stress she's not a teacher she worked at the school as an administrator always it's always the
teacher everybody always says she's a teacher she wasn't yeah it doesn't make it anymore make it better but but it's
annoying that it's just certain that way because it's not like that's not the truth because there are plenty of
teachers who have done this kind of thing like you know we could cover like a million in five pieces like this
unfortunately this is slightly different slightly different just as bad but slightly different exactly so let's talk
about Billy Flynn let's talk about them let's do it Billy Flynn's family had moved to Seabrook New Hampshire from
California California man and they moved in 1987 when Billy was 12 years old so interestingly enough
uh he and Pam's story kind of starts the same which is weird when you think about
it now the move was tough for Billy because it was a huge culture shock Seabrook wasn't necessarily the nicest
area at the time when Pam started her job actually Seabrook had the highest unemployment
rate in the state of New Hampshire and it was mostly filled with like just shops like tattoo shops fireworks stores
there was a lot of porn stores I guess yeah along Route One and the surrounding towns were filled
with people from Mass and Beyond mass and those towns had kind of been transformed throughout the years while
Seabrook was sort of just Frozen in time yeah now usually the people living there
had strong a strong New Hampshire accent which I don't know what a New Hampshire
accent is I would I know it when I hear it but you couldn't do it I don't think I could I
could recreate it I don't know if I know it today it's slight yeah but you like you don't
know the characteristics at all I would I was gonna say I could try to look up like on the um an example of it but I
it's one of those things I just when I hear someone I'm like you're from New Hampshire oh okay I've never noticed it
I think I like don't notice those things sometimes you just have so many Souls uh
you know I probably have a New Hampshire Soul that's like that's not an accent that's my voice that's just me it's just
who I am yeah but apparently the people living in Seabrook of other people seem to have a strong New Hampshire accent
and they also use specific slang words that other people weren't using friend of the Pod and research assistant
of the Pod Dave is pretty familiar with that area and he actually let us in on some of the slang a quick lesson if
you're down from Dave stove you up means you're gonna fight someone oh damn I'm gonna stove you up what Ike bub
means all right or yes ikebub ikebub but according to Dave it's more of an exclamation
hell yeah let's do it um and then there's what Dave calls the classic Aya Aya which just means yes so like oh yeah
oh yeah oh yeah I'd love to do that are you going there oh yeah yeah I guess is what it is so that means yes all right
thank you for joining us class dismissed back to the case thank you Dave thank you Dave now unfortunately residents of
Seabrook and just the TC Brook Town in general were the butt of a lot of Jokes which makes me sad because I also came
from a town that was the butt of a lot of jokes yeah you know that's true the jokes were especially abundant in high
school and the seabra kids were usually called brookers Brooker brookers now Billy Flynn was known at the time as a
quintessential broker he loved heavy metal I liked that and he fell in with a crowd
from Seabrook that didn't really do much else but listen heavy metal and Vibe yeah their [ __ ] yeah man that's what
they did Rock um you know just one year after moving to New Hampshire from California this is [ __ ] terrible and
tragic oh his father was killed in a car accident oh he was 13 years old so now he had to lean even harder on these
brand new friends and his mother had to get a second job working as a maid so that she could support their family she
was now the Sole Provider of a family of four while grieving while grieving cool
so Billy could usually be found most afternoons just killing time with his friends Pete Randall and Vance uh Jr lat
time I believe is how you say it they would work on junk cars in JR's front yard okay now JR's house was kind of a
home base for Billy and his friends it was overcrowded especially when another friend Ralph Welch went to stay with
Jr's family after he was kicked out of his own house oh so it was overcrowded for them but it was also like home I was
gonna say yeah it's like a cozy overcrowd exactly now outside of the house that group of teens didn't really
have the best reputation in town they were known to shoplift they were known to break into cars and steal things like
Sticky Fingers Sticky Fingers McGee's they would steal like small [ __ ] around the car or they would steal radios which
is a dick move yeah that is a dick move let me tell you yeah didn't your radio get started yeah and Toby the probe yeah
and Debbie's Rady I don't know if her radio got stolen but I know her entire book of CDs got stolen and there was a
lot of like burned CDs like mixed CDs to this day we are sad about it if you're listening and you did that go [ __ ]
yourself [ __ ] you and I hope LimeWire gave your computer virus I hope you got a virus I hope the feds came to your
house like how dare you yeah that's [ __ ] up one of those thick books who steals a
book of CDs sticks like that's not you didn't even make that no [ __ ] it wasn't
your hard work that wasn't yours no but yeah they like to do that yeah steal things from the car like CD books
and sometimes if they were lucky enough to find a car that still had the keys in it
they would take that car for a joyride and then dump it across town from where they found it so you would wake up in
the morning and you'd say holy [ __ ] my car is gone but at school they were a little more well-behaved and their
grades were like all right but none of them were interested in extracurriculars until Billy Jr and their friend Cecilia
Pierce were asked to be among the students that would facilitate project self-esteem and for one reason or
another they all agreed it's very strange because I can't picture this group of friends being like yeah I'll
work with project self-esteem yeah that's a little strange to me but they did I think they were probably pressured
into it probably uh one day though what'd you say they were probably threatened absolutely no one day that
fall they all got together for their first meeting and it was there that the guidance counselor introduced them to
their staff supervisor Media Center Director Miss Pam smart Pamela so to the teens in the room Pam seemed pretty cool
she was young she was pretty she treated them like they were normal she never made them feel like a waste of time like
some of the other adults in their life did but Billy Billy liked her for a totally
different reason he thought she was smoking hot he was immediately feeling the the bed for her and he turned to his
friend Jr and whispered I'm in love wow damn like you've known her for once a lot she could have terrible views on
life it's true so Pam even though she was an adult and obviously uh in a position of power and
authority she was 22 years old she was a lot closer in age to the students than pretty much any other staff at the
school and she also wasn't one of their teachers like you usually hear she was she was an
administrator for the school district so to them she felt more like a cool older
friend versus what she really was yeah an authority figure but Billy right away did whatever he
could do to be in Pam's company to him her love of heavy metal and her experience as a College radio DJ made
her even cooler and less like any adult he knew and before long he was opening up to her about everything in his life
his dad's death how he didn't feel like he fit in and see Brooke at first but then he found this great group of
friends you know telling her things that he wasn't talking to anybody else about
he also was not serious at all about project self-esteem but what he was serious about was Pam as the weeks went
on and he was spending more and more time with her in the administrative building which remember was in the high
school they were getting closer and closer uh-oh and also I'm pretty sure the her office was in the basement so it
was away from a lot of important guys oh but anytime he had a free period anytime
he had lunch or a class he didn't feel like going to he went to Pam's office and it was easy because it was right
there yeah now Billy though he wasn't the only one wanting to spend more time with Pam Cecilia Pierce Billy's friend
and fellow project self-esteem volunteer was also fascinated by her now Cecilia was somewhat of like a Wallflower and
she had Big Dreams of becoming a journalist so Pam was the embodiment of what Cecilia wanted for herself she
seemed like she was attractive successful and she had this commanding presence that Cecilia wanted to have
aspired to have um her parents both worked full-time so they weren't home a lot essentially what I'm getting at here is
that like Cecilia didn't feel like she was noticed by a lot of people and Pam always seemed to be the one to make time
for her and then they also had a lot in common because she wanted to be a journalist and la da do you you know
yeah it makes sense so Pam eventually found out that Cecilia had an interest in media and journalism and she was like
oh would you like to intern like at the media center with me yeah and Cecilia jumped out the chance totally normal
yeah right then Cecilia's energy and internship began in November and for two periods a
day she joined Pam in the basement office where she helped with type setting the school board's newsletter
she cataloged the AV Equipment and basically did whatever else needed to be done now of course during her time as an
intern Cecilia and Pam got closer yeah because remember Pam is this young uh administrator and Cecilia's looking
up to her she thinks she's so cool yeah Cecilia said they only ever got into one
argument and that Pam's response to the fight was asking Cecilia to please not be mad at her
she remembered thinking here's this girl she's 22. she's my friend and she's actually apologizing to me or Cecilia
who was really used to being ignored and overlooked the attention that she was getting from Pam was intoxicating oh boy
intoxicated I was gonna say what a word I know right now to anybody looking and unfortunately nobody actually seemed to
be it was it would have been clear that Pam probably wasn't the best person for this position no the kids really didn't
necessarily respect her as an authority figure they just saw her as a peer and she was not really good at setting
professional boundaries what could have been a positive mentoring experience pretty quickly
spiraled into something wildly inappropriate Pam really really loved being the center of attention and like I
was saying earlier she liked to be friends with people that she had power and influence over there it is so this
new quote-unquote friendship that she had with Billy and Cecilia AKA their infatuation with her
started to make up for the distance that she was feeling was growing between her
and Greg yeah it's like this is exactly what she wants her little high school friends yeah who are like sophomores in
high school I don't like it at all are making up for the issue she's having with her husband and while Greg was kind
of like growing up and losing interest in the music that they used to love and avoiding partying Pam's new Teenage
friends were still interested in those things and that she was super cool for loving them just as much as they did
yeah man so she's leaning even more and more of course these kids now in December Cecilia saw a flyer on
Pam's desk for the Florida Department of citrus's annual High School video competition
the 80s okay like a video competition it was the 80s it's almost the 90s but she
mentioned to Pam that it sounded fun so Pam agreed and with Cecilia's help they recruited Billy Flynn and Cecilia's best
friend Karen Crowley to work on a submission they were like let's go win this Florida let's go now none of them
actually really thought the project was all that interesting um and their concept which was a rap
song describing orange juice in the life of a caveman wasn't really that original
or clever no but it meant that they got to spend more time with each other throughout the week and by January of
1990 the group was meeting several times a week at the school and eventually they
started meeting up on Saturdays too at Pam and Greg's condo oh no where they would take long breaks to go sledding or
eat dinner together I don't like this inappropriate yep so much singing you're welcome yeah now the video that they
made did not win it did not even get any kind of positive response from the Department of citrus nobody really gave
a shot about it no but the time that they spent making it led Pam and all the kids to get closer and she was becoming
especially close with Billy hmm Billy's mom like I said was Market working multiple jobs to support the family
and Billy was usually in charge of his brothers Jimmy and Larry while she was gone I guess in public he was considered
very quiet and polite he didn't talk much about his feelings or really anything at all he was quiet his mother
Elaine said of him outside of the family people saw a kid that was polite and Charming inside the family is where he
took out his anger at home he could be whatever he was feeling like and most of the time he was feeling like a prick oh
wow like that's his that's his mother she was like he was a dick damn she tried actually because she could see
that Billy was struggling I mean he had just lost his dad and now he's acting out so she's like okay he needs help
yeah so she tried to get help for him and she went to her friends and family for advice on how to handle him but she
said quote everybody's solution was beat the [ __ ] out of him and she really didn't have any interest in beating any
of her children my God so she just tried to keep the peace when she was home I'm
glad she didn't have interest in beating her children me too I was happy to hear
that my goodness but unfortunately like we were saying to provide that home she wasn't able to be there much yeah
because she's gonna work really was struggling emotionally and left mostly to his own devices and then now he's
really starting to struggle with feelings that he's having for Pam he knows they can't be together because
she's 22 and he's uh 15 at this point but it's confusing for him because she seems to be paying special interest to
him and she seems like she likes him too so he's like I don't really know what to
do about all this so instead of really like talking to him about anybody about it he just would go to Pam and keep
hanging out with her and like flirt with each other yeah now Pam as we know she was going through a lot of changes and a
lot of turmoil in her life her marriage was crumbling at that point she and Greg
barely had anything in common anymore and one night around Christmas 1989 Greg spent the night out drinking with
friends and he didn't come home there was another Boston night oh man didn't come home until the next morning at
first he was like I didn't come back because I was too drunk and I didn't want to drive so I slept at my friend's
house but she was like I know that's not the truth like what really happened and
eventually she got the truth out of him he had cheated on her oh no so the tension grew between them and over the
course of a few days things reached a breaking 0.19 when Pam showed up at Greg's parents house in the middle of
the night dressed in her pajamas and she says to them in the middle of the night
just in her pajamas that Greg had slapped her across the face bent her over a railing in their condo and
attempted to strangle her oh my God I know now obviously it was just Greg and Pam when this happened so none of us
have any idea if this happened or not very well could have very well could not have who knows it's unclear but when
Bill Smart confronted his son about it Greg Greg denied it and said I haven't even touched her she's a pain in the ass
I just told her to get the hell out of here and then Pam would later claim that the slap was accidental okay and none of
their friends had any recollection of it happening but whether it happened or not
that incident kind of seemed to be the trigger point for the end of the marriage
makes sense you know and it's one of those things where it's like there's three versions of the story yours mine
you're never gonna know what actually happened like do I think they probably got into a [ __ ] nasty argument yes
but I am nobody to say what happened past that yeah like the physical portion of it would it Shock Me No but I can't I
wasn't there exactly now as Pam's life and dairy was a rapidly disintegrating she opted to
spend more time in Hampton where she was getting idolized by Cecilia and worshiped by Billy Now by February they
were still meeting several times a week and Billy was still spending any free time he had hanging out with Pam either
in her office or at her condo and one day in early February Pam brought some undeveloped film to Billy he had
previously told her that his upstairs neighbor or one of his upstairs neighbors owned a one-hour Photoshop so
he could get her a discount on photo processing okay so later that day when the photos were ready to pick up Pam and
Billy drove together to get them and Pam immediately opened them up in the parking lot and just started like
lulling to herself about them she was opposing seductively in her bra and underwear
and she then handed those pictures to Billy to look at oh I hate that a lot please remember that she's 22 and this
boy is a [ __ ] sophomore in high school yep she knew exactly what she was doing also the photos are laughable and
you can Google them oh God it's just like what are you doing like it's you took those knowing that you were gonna
give them to a 15 year old come on and that's so yaka yaka it's very yucky the most yakayaka so the next day she
brought the photos to work with her and she told Billy she didn't think any of them were very good so he could take any
of them if he wanted to keep them like how do you even have that conversation I don't like I don't want
to know how how you ask I I retract so later that afternoon she called Cecilia into her office and she was like I
really have to talk to you about something but it's personal now clearly like from the outside of
this as adults we're like oh she's grooming them yeah she's slowly testing the waters while she plans to lead up to
something more shocking yeah crazy requests and then eventually straight up violations she knows her audience she
knows that they're looking for positive attention validation and that because they were in the position that they were
they weren't going to catch on to all the red flags that she was throwing there this is so sick it's [ __ ] so
once Cecilia went into Pam's office Pam was like oh my God girl sit down I gotta
talk to you and by now they had had so many chats about personal matters so this wasn't strange so it didn't feel
weird to Cecilia exactly because I'm she was groomed now Pam just blurted out to
Cecilia I think I'm in love with Bill oh my God now Cecilia just smiled uh probably very unsure about what the [ __ ]
she was supposed to make of what Pam just said to her yeah and I mean the idea was absolutely insane Pam was an
adult Billy was a teenager so at first Cecilia probably was like lol like what well and it's like she's making it seem
like she's confiding something in you so like you you are on that level you're my
good girl yeah like I'm confiding in you like this is like so Cecilia is like what and like so Pam had to convince her
that she was serious and once she was convinced Pam asked her if she could pass a message along to Billy she said
ask him to come by the media center after school so I can tell him myself oh my God so Billy did as he was asked
but when he showed up in Pam's office she was like really flustered and couldn't get what she wanted to say out
so he left because um he had to catch the school bus home because he's a child he doesn't even have a license no he's
taking the school bus home and his administrator was about to tell him that she's in love with him I hate this this
full-grown married individual is putting her two index fingers together like I think I have a crush on you Billy ew oh
yeah I hate it like get a grip so the next day Billy skipped his free study period and went to Pam's office again
and he was like what the [ __ ] is going on like why are you being so weird around me this is coming out of nowhere
yeah so she started being like awkward and seemed like she was embarrassed and she put her head down to avoid eye
contact with him and said do you ever think about me when I'm not around oh my God and Billy was like oh my gosh I know
exactly what you're talking about like yes I always do and I mean he was completely stunned of
course but he was also over the [ __ ] Moon of course he's a 15 year old she's 22. so he told her yeah I do think about
you all the time and then they like talked about their feelings for each other briefly before Billy had to go
back to his high school class oh my God I hate it he was like yeah Pam I really do think about you all the time but I
gotta get back to buy it I have to go to fifth period like Jesus [ __ ] Christ that's so gross so things were all
awkward in the days that followed but eventually that awkwardness just went all the way to the Wayside I don't know
a few weeks later Pam visited Billy at his home while his mother made dinner in the kitchen and Pam went up to his
bedroom closed the door behind her try your best not to picture this but Billy was laying on his bed Pam was leaned
against the door and Starry Eyes by Motley Crew was playing in the background I hate everything about this
don't picture it I'm not nope Pam asked Billy if he was going to kiss her you know with the romance starry eyes and he
was like oh my gosh totally but being the timid boy that she was he wasn't getting up to make a move so Pam
strodecost the room and kissed him while his mother was making spaghetti downstairs because he can't even cook
his own meals I hate it I'm losing it I just threw my computer I'm closing my eyes and just trying to like rub away
this is called disassociated like his mom is downstairs you [ __ ] crazy woman oh that's so awful and she isn't
thinking any of this because again this is not a teacher no and she's probably like I don't know what the [ __ ] going
on this is a violation of all kinds so a couple weeks after the kiss it's gonna get so much more
Greg went out of town on a ski trip and Pam asked Billy if he would like to spend the night with her at her condo in
Derry so for Billy who had been fantasizing about this very scenario since the moment he [ __ ] met Pam this entire
thing is feeling surreal and he's like hell to the yeah I hate it so he went and that night he basically just shared
an ordinary night with Pam like a like a like an ordinary couple would except he's 15. he's very upset they had dinner
together they watched nine and a half weeks and then they retired to the bedroom Pam
dressed up in lingerie and danced seductively for Billy oh my God reenacting a scene from the film and
Billy would later tell a jury she said she always wanted to dance for somebody like that but there was never anybody
she could do it for how about your full-grown husband that you married how about that like I
wrote an asterisk here and I wrote [ __ ] twisted so [ __ ] twisted that's exactly what it is [ __ ]
twisted oh so now she's got her hold on Billy secure and she is quickly quickly escalating things between them now she's
discussing her relationship with Greg with Billy and according to Billy Pam only married Greg quote because back
then it was the thing to do to marry the Greg and also back then it was like two
years ago you [ __ ] back then but she would always talk to Billy about the different ways that Greg was physically
and emotionally abusing her according to her because again we don't know yeah I mean it's abusive to spit beer in
somebody's face absolutely it is but she said there was also supposedly a time where he locked her out of the house in
the snow and she was only wearing her bra and underwear Jesus and I was like I would hope not because like his parents
lived uh five minutes away like that's awkward but we don't know if that's yeah we don't know but she was very very
clearly trying to appear like she was a damsel in distress a woman in need of saving and it was working because Billy
never liked Greg obviously because he's Pam's husband and a newfound rival but now he's hearing regular descriptions of
domestic violence at Greg's hands yeah so he hates Greg for what Pam claims he's doing to her of course so a few
weeks later during one of her rants about Greg's dismissive and sometimes abusive
Behavior Pam reminded Billy of a time when she asked whether or not he knew somebody that would kill for money
I don't know how that had come up previously you know that doesn't often come up in my conversations I will say I
don't think I've ever asked anybody yeah they um they just happened to know someone that was a hitman yeah that's
never really something that just casually comes up in my life not me either but not me not me could it be me
no way but apparently when she first asked she had made the question in a joke it was something about like needing
to get rid of her secretary so she could get the job for her friends like it was
silly yeah but now Pam seemed serious only this time obviously it wasn't her secretary that she wanted to have killed
it was her husband uh oh so after a few weeks of hearing how terrible Greg was Billy understood that Pam was angry and
frustrated but at the same time he also found it very hard to believe that she actually wanted her husband murdered
yeah it might be pretty tough to wrap your head around that yeah I would hope that would be strange to hear later on
he would say he did become convinced when Pam quote started crying and said the only way she could excuse me Pam
started crying and said the only way she could see for us to be together is if we
kill Greg the thing is and I know he's 15 so like this isn't like he's not gonna wow we
should understand that like when you're looking at it from an outside perspective you're like but there is no
way for you two to be in together because you're an adult and he is a child and that is not consensual or okay
in any way so whether your husband is dead or alive and you divorce him you still can't be together nope you're
still against all laws of goodness and law loss like like how are you gonna tell your mom that you're dating a 22
year old you can't do that I think she's gonna go for that so it's like guys no matter what I don't know why it's like
he has to be dead that's the only thing stopping us from being together no the law of the land is what's stopping you
from being together you idiots like are you kidding me well so Billy did understand that there were other options
he was like what about divorce yeah and she said divorce simply wasn't an option
Pam said quote because everything was in Greg's name or I believe it was um Billy
that said this excuse me because everything was in Greg's name and he'd take the car the dog the furniture and
the money and she'd have to move in with her mother okay well if you guys have love then that should be it right and
also like she'd have to move in with her mother she'd have to be an accessory to
murder like I think yeah I think one is better like even I have a shitty mom but
I'd move in with her over killing my husband and it's like he's not gonna take everything like you're gonna go
through like an equitable Equitable division of the assets exactly like get get [ __ ] girl get [ __ ] get [ __ ] Get
Wrecked Get Wrecked so knowing how attached and infatuated Billy was with her though Pam took one thing took
things one step further and she told Billy we won't be able to spend time together outside of school as long as
Greg's alive you can't spend time together anyway outside of school he is a child even if he's alive and you're
diver divorce you still can't hang out outside of school you can she's so manipulative horrible manipulative even
like in in prison I'm pretty sure she there's been like stories that have come out over the years where you're like oh
yeah people what yeah these kind of people don't stop from the moment though Pam brought up the potential of killing
Greg the subject became an almost constant topic of conversation first but just between Pam and Billy but then
eventually between Pam Billy and Cecilia uh-oh at first it was like an air of secrecy thing and it was like excitement
around the affair their relationship was like part teenage romance they would like pass notes and have sex in parking
lots and also dangerous yeah like there was that whole side of it but they loved
that like they fed off of that um but it was also illegal and at the very least Pam would get fired if
anybody found out but eventually her repeated appeals for Billy to kill Greg took on a way more serious and way more
urgent tone and it made it seem like she was ready and serious so after a few weeks of badgering Billy
finally caved and agreed to kill Greg smart he would later say I was afraid if I didn't do it she would leave me and
that would be it so once Billy agreed to kill Greg it was like there was literally no other
subject between them worth talking about just like she had with the orange juice
video and every other project in her life Pam took over she planned the murder like it was a
project she was working on for school she settled on the old classic they would make the murder look like Greg had
been killed in a accident robbery gone wrong close robbery gone wrong I mean also an
accident the accident you should have seen her face I got very excited I was like I nailed it accident I was like
almost yours makes more sense at that point though everything still seemed like it was fantasy or movie Pam was
like Billy here's what you're gonna do you're gonna dress in all black you're gonna park the car he doesn't have one
or a license to operate one no a few blocks from the condo then you're gonna walk to my house and you're gonna wait
for Greg to get home and every day the plan was refined more and more Billy should wear gloves to avoid leaving
fingerprints he should tie his hair back so nobody could identify him he should wreck the house to make it
seem like they've been robbed and so on and so forth now Pam meanwhile was going
to establish a strong Alibi by going to a school board meeting in Hampton at the
time of the killing genius genius brilliant oh my God Pam how'd you come up with it wow this is just the
Brain Trust at work excuse me I had to stop coughing how dare you but what the plans seem to lack was um any realistic
discussion of what it would be like to actually murder somebody or how Billy should even go about murdering him in
the first place yeah that'll just come you know why talk about that what why figure that out now even though the plan
was for Billy to murder Greg Pam wasted absolutely no time in making Cecilia an accomplice by keeping her updated on the
plan she knew every last step she was there for many of the discussions between Pam and Billy and her knowledge
would later make her an asset to potential investigators and potential prosecutors okay now when it came time
to do the actual killing Pam had everything planned down to the smallest detail she was going to leave the door
to the basement unlocked so that Billy could slip in undetected once inside he was to bring the couple's
dog Halen Halen [ __ ] into the basement so as Not to cause any commotion I always hate that part of
things you know when they'll like throw a dog in like a bathroom or something to
kill the owner and it's like what do you do and it's always a tiny dog because they can do that yeah like with a tiny
dog like a big dog's gonna [ __ ] your world up hell yeah but it's like these poor little tiny baby dogs are always
just like tossed in a bedroom or a closet or something and then they hear the person is being murdered out there
yeah like I always that part always gets me like it's like when somebody takes off somebody's glasses before they do
something or like rips their glasses off it's just like that's exactly it it just
like stresses me out it like adds to it yeah but so once Halen was in the basement
then Billy would return to the first floor and wait for Greg to come home at which point he was to shoot Greg in the
head and then trash the apartment to make it look like he'd been killed again when he walked in on a robbery yeah now
even as they planned meticulously Cecilia definitely never thought that these two were actually going to go
through with the plan she was just like wow this is [ __ ] wild that you guys are talking about this because everybody
stop assuming they're not going to go forward in the plan every [ __ ] story I've ever told every [ __ ] story it's
like I heard them plan it like meticulously but I didn't think they'd do it but I never thought they'd do it
and it's like yes I understand it sounds like you're like a more logical person Cecilia in that way where you're saying
well there's no way that these two idiots are gonna kill her husband like that's wild but like also if they're
talking about it like normal people don't talk about killing their husbands no they don't that's just that's not a
that's standard practice that's really not something that just gets thrown about out and then you all LOL about it
and you move on no if they're talking about it they in some way in some part of their soul they are planning to do
this it's true just little PSA to everybody you should go home and tell your mom yeah so tell someone anybody no
she would later tell investigators that Billy just wasn't a violent kid sure he was angry but enough that he would um
execute somebody in Cold Blood probably not no probably not so that was most likely why she continued to go along
with it even when they started brainstorming where Billy was gonna get a gun because they plotted that whole
part before they even had access to a gun now Cecilia actually did contribute to the plan and suggested that Billy
could use her father's gun but she hadn't seen her dad in several years so that wasn't really a viable option wow
yeah then she suggested a woman she worked with at papa Gino she said she knew this lady kept a handgun in the
glove compartment of her car and that actually seems like a pretty easy option because Billy loved stealing things from
Vehicles so he said whoa another one let's go yeah I love doing this so he hung around the parking lot of the
puppuccinos several nights in a row until he finally was able to break into the woman's car but when he did there
was no gun in the compartment ah so ultimately they would use a gun that they stole from Jr's father okay with
hollow point bullets Billy convinced a friend to buy for him now he said the reason for the hollow points was quote
because they would be the quickest and most painless oh this is like really chilling it's so
chilling now Pam and Billy had spent so long talking about killing Greg that the
whole thing thing kind of just seemed like a perverse game and for that reason it probably came as a shock to Billy
when one afternoon in late March Pam insisted that it couldn't wait any longer and it needed to be done that
night Jesus but the problem was that Billy still didn't have a gun did not have a car or a license to operate one
because he's a child Pam your lover is a virgin who can't drive okay that was a perfect insertion of that line thank you
appreciate that now when Billy pointed all these facts out all Pam had to offer was well hurry up and get them by
tonight okay what what what huh so Billy was like okay I'll try but he couldn't like
figure that out no and he wasn't he wasn't ready to murder somebody in Cold Blood he said it's not something I
wanted to do and I didn't think she'd be mad or anything if I didn't at least at first he didn't think that
but unfortunately Billy was very wrong Pam was in fact very angry that he didn't follow through with the murder of
her current husband when he called her later to tell her that he hadn't done it she exploded on
him and screamed at him through the phone you don't love me if you did you would do this for me it's the only way
we could be together and if you loved me then you would want us to be together wow
now this was the first time he had seen her pissed off because uh she's been grooming him so she's been building him
up though he came up and building him up and not showing any of her real and now
she's about to [ __ ] lose it on him now through tears he Pro he started crying and was like okay next time I'm
gonna go through with it but she persisted and screamed at him I know you're never gonna do this you don't
have any intention of doing this and I can't go on seeing you like this if we're not gonna be together and then she
slammed the phone on the receiver and hung up on him that's so [ __ ] up it's so manipulative so [ __ ] up this is a
child this is a 15 year old and she knows that like yeah a 15 year old should know better than to murder
someone that is absolutely 100 true but on the other side of this a [ __ ] adult should know that a 15 year old in
a 15 year old boy who is clearly like in puppy love with you is highly impressionable and she does she did
exactly and that's the thing it's like there's wrongs here on each level but her bet this imbalance of power here so
beyond [ __ ] absolutely and remember everybody it never would have happened if it weren't for Pam smart art yeah
Billy never would have murdered he wouldn't have just randomly murdered this guy like if it were not for Pam he
wasn't showing any kind of like sure he was like a little thief yeah he was like
like he was a shitty kid like for sure but it's like and his mom was like he was kind of he didn't really show like
true like who knows none of us really know but it's like likely wouldn't have no no no so the next day Cecilia pulled
bully aside and she said Pam wants to see you now in her office in the media center Pam apologized for yelling at
Billy on the phone and said don't worry there's another school board meeting scheduled for next month so you'll have
another chance to kill Greg and Billy said later yeah right Billy said later that's when I started getting serious
about it I thought that if I do something like I thought that if I do something like not go through with it
she's gonna leave me and that's gonna be it this is the time I really started talking to Jr and Pete about it those
were his two friends and that is where we're going to wrap up for part one I knew it but next week
we're going to get into the final plan the night of the murder and the subsequent Trials of those involved but
something to think about more people are involved than you might think oh later on okay this this plan gets finalized
with a lot more players than you're probably thinking this is this moment this is just so messy it's a bunch of
[ __ ] mothers it's so messy from the beginning of this marriage until the end I'm sure it's all messy it's absolutely
agreeable these are two people that definitely should not have gotten married no these are uh two people that
never should have met like Billy and Pam yeah and this is a relationship that never should have occurred exactly
multiple relationships that never should have occurred between Billy and Pam Cecilia and Pam and yeah inappropriate
relationships for sure so with that being said we hope you keep listening oh and we hope you keep it weird but never
this [ __ ] weird or else literally never this weird don't be a listener of the show and keep it that [ __ ] weird
don't you know how weird to take it okay and this is not it it's not it foreign [Music]

Mention the Pamela Smart case to someone in New Hampshire, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about. The case captivated the nation in the early 90's and at the center of it all, of course, was Pamela. A New Hampshire native, she had big dreams of becoming somebody and making a name for herself. She moved away from her small town and almost did, but in the name of love she moved back home and settled into her career as a School Administrator. It was via that position that she would meet young sophomore in High School, Billy Flynn. Pam groomed the boy, and had him thinking they were fully in love before she asked him a question that would change both of their lives forever: Would he murder her husband? In part one we'll cover the early life of both Pam and her husband, Gregg Smart, we'll break down how Pam and Billy became involved with each other and just how Pam got Billy to believe that murdering her husband was what it would take for them to be together forever.

Special thank you to the brilliant David White for research assistance

References Baker, Frank. 1990. "Smart to be jailed until trial." Concord Monitor, August 14: 1.

—. 1990. "Widow charged as accomplice." Concord Monitor, August 2: 14.

Carton, Barbara. 1991. "The Pamela Smart story." Boston Globe, Marcg 21.1991. NH v. Smart: Opening Statements. Directed by Court TV. Performed by Court TV.

Derry News. 1990. "Family and friends puzzle over murder." Derry News, May 4: 1. Englade, Ken. 1991. Deadly Lessons. New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.

Gaines, Judith, and Alexander Reid. 1991. "Jurors say tales a key to their decision." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

Hernandez, Monica. 2023. Accomplice in Smart murder asks for sentence reduction. January 10. Accessed May 1, 2023. https://www.wmur.com/article/smart-murder-vance-lattime-sentence-reduction/42449265.

Hohler, Bob. 1991. "3 guilty in N.H. killing." Boston Globe, January 30: 1.

—. 1991. "Confidant was wired by police." Boston Globe, March 15: 21.

—. 1991. "Smart is found guilty." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

—. 1991. "Smart pleaded for life, N.H. teen-ager testifies." Boston Globe, March 6: 19.

—. 1991. "Tales of seduction." Boston Globe, March 12: 1.

—. 1990. "Tape offered at Smart hearing." Boston Globe, August 14.

—. 1991. "Witness: Smart asked for tips on reaction." Boston Globe, March 3: 27.

—. 1991. "Youth says blood flowed, tears did not." Boston Globe, March 13: 35.

Kilgannon, Corey. 2023. "Smart, who plotted with a teen lover to kill her husband, loses a parole bid." New York Times, March 30.

Kittredge, Clare. 1991. "A verdict to take to son's grave." Boston Globe, March 23: 1.

—. 1991. "Smart trial garners big TV audience." Boston Globe, March 17: 1.

Richardson, Franci. 1990. "Mrs. Smart absolutely convinced husband surprised thief." Derry News, May 9: 1.

Sawicki, Stephen. 1991. Teach Me to Kill: The Shocking True Story of the Pamela Smart Murder Case. New York, NY: Avon Books.

Schweitzer, Sarah. 2015. "5 years later, shooter to go free: William Flynn was 16 when he was lured into murder by Pamela Smart." Boston Globe, March 13: A1.

State of New Hampshire v. Pamela Smart. 1993. 622 A.2d 1197 (Supreme Court of New Hampshire, February 26).

Wang, Beverley. 2005. "Pamela Smart accomplice released." Concord Monitor, June 15: 10.

West, Nancy. 2016. Breaking Silence: Cecelia Pierce Speaks. October 12. Accessed April 24, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/breaking-silence-cecelia-pierce-speaks/.

West, Nancy, and David Mendelsohn. 2016. Pamela Smart: innocent of (still) guilty. October 13. Accessed April 29, 2023. https://www.nhmagazine.com/pamela-smart-innocent-or-still-guilty/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2015/03/09/brother-of-pamela-smarts-victim-killer-did-his-time/

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Brief Summary

Pamela Smart's marriage to Greg crumbles as she engages in an inappropriate relationship with teenager Billy Flynn, leading to a murder plot.

Key points

Elena's Hair Tie Scare. Elena yelps in fear when a hair tie rolls across the floor, mistaking it for a bug.
Pamela Smart's High School Reputation. Pam was known for her assertiveness and popularity, but also for her dark side.
The Breakup. Greg breaks up with Pam in a shocking turn of events.
Engagement Surprise. Greg surprises Pam with a diamond ring, leading to an unexpected engagement.
Pam's Career Dilemma. Faced with a choice between love and her dream job, Pam ultimately chose Greg.
The Call from WCTV. Just as Pam was planning her wedding, she received an offer for her dream job.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I'm totally kidding so don't call like an animal shelter or something.

Elena jokes about training her dogs to eat people.

4:04WatchMay 30, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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