The Murder of David Harris (Part 2) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I am Elena. And this is Morbid. [Music] This is morbid. Trying to figure out
what to eat for dinner. Not flaming hot Cheetos. No, I just tried flaming hot Cheetos for the first time. I like that
you say flaming. Flaming. What is it supposed to be? Like flaming. Flaming. Flaming. Oh, I thought it was flaming.
Flaming. It's flaming. Such an author. I have tried flaming hot Cheetos for the first time. It's Yeah. I've never tried
them before, which you would think I would. I love cheesy goodness. Yeah. Um, they're okay. Yeah, I took a video of
her trying them. She just said, "So spicy." They're so spicy. They're not like crazy spicy and then they're so
artificial tasting. I think I've just like lost a taste for super artificial tasting stuff. I get that. You offer the
most and I was not interested. Yeah, I think that's what happened. Remember I tried Takis? Oh, yeah. And it made me
literally sick. Like I think it was just I couldn't get That's another thing I've
never tried. I know my bounds when it comes to this IBS body of Well, your stomach is a is the wild west, so I
don't blame you for putting up boundaries. Listen, I'm going to say some crazy [ __ ] right now. I'm not a
medical doctor, so don't [ __ ] listen to me. But no, no, no. And it's I'm not I was going to say it, but then I
decided not to. But you're not someone who claims that you can beat infertility with a positive mindset. No. Or raw
milk. But I do find a difference in my Tum Tums happiness when I eat chia seed pudding in the morning, you know. And
there's actually scientific evidence behind that and like how it works as it travels through your body. Well, people
also people like it. It's I've never really had it, but I I think there's something to that. You don't like
pudding, though. I do love pudding. You do like pudding? Yeah, I love pudding. Why did I think you don't like pudding?
I don't know. Pudding. I love a pudding moment. It's I think it's really good and it's also really easy to make. So
there it's like four ingredients. I should try that because I really need to I got to get back I was in a really good
uh like meal preppy place of of being um for like the last few months I was like
every Sunday I was doing my meal prep for the week and it was mostly like snacks for the kids and like you know
just getting things ready so we could have an easier week and like that es and flows so much. It just cuz life Yeah.
It's like we would have a couple of busy weekends and it would throw me off or we
people got sick like the kids got sick, I got sick, John got like somebody got sick and it just threw us all off. But I
need to get back in my [ __ ] because I do think the that life flows nicer when there's a little bit of prep involved. I
like a prep. I just prepped three of these for this week cuz I was like I'm I was waking up I've been waking up so
late lately because I happen to get it coming into the office ridiculously late. I just roll up in here at [ __ ]
like 9:17. I'm like, "Sorry." Hey everyone. We start early usually, but I just I don't know what's going on with
my life. Dash says, "Fuck y'all." Yeah. I make myself up when I want to. I show up I show up when I can. When I can. I
show up pretty regularly. Um but yeah. No, I I kept I kept just like not eating breakfast or like grabbing something
stupid or being exponentially more late because I was like, I have to eat breakfast. Yeah. And these chia seed
puddings, you make them, you have to set them in the fridge cuz they um they'll [ __ ] you up if they don't Oh, if they
cuz they're they're like loaded with fiber, but um they have to soak in a like some kind of liquid so that they're
not so they're not as like crazy. I don't know. Yeah, but cuz I think basic I think they can like maybe not exactly,
but I think they can like explode in you if you don't soak them first. I think people have had like ruptures. Here's
the thing. I don't know if I'll be doing chia seed pudding. I don't like having any kind of risk with my food. No,
there's no risk if you soak them. Like like one thing, rhubarb pie. What? I'm a little scared of rhubarb pie. Why is
that? Because you have to like they don't take there's a certain part of a rhubarb that if you eat it, it's
poisonous. For real? Yeah. I have you ever had a rhubarb? Um I I don't know if I have to be honest. I don't even know
if I've come across a rhubarb in the produce section. is a is a thing. But yeah, it's like the
leaves. I think if you like leave any of the leaves on, they're poisonous. And that I don't like having any kind of
risk with my food. No, I got that. You know, like I'm not one of those people who's going to eat that like highly
poisonous like [ __ ] sushi that like you know that like crazy thing that it's like if they don't do it perfectly.
Wait, there's highly poisonous sushi. It's like a It's in like I think it's like some crazy delicacy that like Oh,
if they don't prepare it exactly right, it can kill you. Is it like the kind of fish or something? I think so. I've
never heard of this. It's like the way you prepare it. I think if you don't do it correctly. Oh, [ __ ] I'm not living
that life. Like that's why I don't bungee jump. That's why I'm not skydiving. Yeah. That's why you ruined
oysters for me and my husband. That's why I ruined oysters for as many people as I could. Cuz I'm just like, "No, live
this life with me where we eat food that doesn't kill us." It's good. No, honestly, chia seed pudding is fine. You
literally just have to soak it in a liquid before you eat it. Otherwise, it could just, you know, kill you. Yeah,
I'm a little scared by that. It won't kill you. It'll just explode in your diet. It's going to support you. I don't
know. Look into it. I honestly I recommend it though because gets things moving. It gets things moving and um it
might really get things moving by exploding inside of you. So just just soak it in a liquid. Um but they're
loaded in fiber and we as women especially don't get enough fiber. And this is not an ad. We literally just
don't. That sounded like it was about to be an ad. I know for a second I was like
do we have an ad? I was like [ __ ] off. No, I feel I feel passionate about this.
as women do not get in. I was like lately I feel so passionate about like women's like like just like health.
There's no [ __ ] research into women's health whatsoever. And I've been looking
more into it and they don't recommend that we have enough fiber and all of us are lacking in fiber and that makes us
tired and irregular and have IBS and you know this is a health podcast now. Yeah.
Welcome. No. Anyways, um we were gonna say something else. No. Uh I don't know. We just have uh we have some some stuff
coming up that's fun. We do um that I just you know I'm just sharing with my besties here. You know all of you
everybody you Mikey all the people listening um we get to go to the Jack's Mannequin concert soon.
I mean you it's like the day after tomorrow. I was going to say it's like by the time you hear it come out we'll
have already been it was awesome. I'm sure it was great. Good job Andrew. Yeah. We get to hang with Andrew. Yeah,
I'm sure for a minute again. And that'll be fun. And Aiden's coming. Um because that's always a fun thing to be like,
"Oh, let's just hang out with Andrew McMahon again." Rockstar. Um again, 16-year-old me is just not not really
fully grasping that as reality, but here we are. Yeah. Um and I'm just excited to
see Jack Mannequin play again because I haven't been to a Jack Mannequin concert
in a long time. I actually can't believe I talked about fiber before this. That's
like the worst transition ever. We just talked about like digestive tracks and fiber before and now you're like, "Let's
talk about Jack's mannequin." I'm like, "That's good." You're like, "Oh, yeah." You know, that really shifted us into
gear. Jesus Christ, I love it. I'm so excited. I haven't seen Jack's Mannequin since I think 2016. Yeah. It's been a
long time. Yeah. So, that'll be fun. Mhm. We got that. And hopefully, you know, hopefully we see some of you
there. Yeah. I bet we did. We probably did. It was so much fun. Oh, we did. We saw some of you there. And it was Hey.
Hey guys. Good to see you. Hey, you. We saw there listener. You know what's gonna be, you know what's super duper
cool? What? There's only like 20ish episodes left where we have to be so far ahead. 20 episodes left that we
have to Yeah, we only have we only have a handful of episodes where we're not going to understand where it's uh
falling in the pushing order where we're at the spaceime continues. Yeah, we're almost at a point where we're going to
be up to date with you guys in our episodes. So nice to see you guys again. You guys can't wait. Yeah, it's going to
be nice. What if I laughed like that? Whenever I say, "What if I laughed like that?" So
many people comment. They're like, "You do. You do." I'm like, "Don't tell me I laugh like that." You laugh like that. I
just said, "Don't tell me that. I'm reckless today. You are reckless." Um, and this is a reckless story that
you're about to finish. Yeah, I guess. Reckless is a great way to describe it. I I think we bantered the banter a
thousand sons. That was beautiful. Thank you. Poetic even. All right. So, yeah, we are in part two of the murder of
David Harris. This is like Elena just said, a reckless story. Harrowing one might say. Mhm. Uh in part one, we
started obviously with the unfortunate act of Clara Harris running over her husband David while his 16-year-old
daughter Lindsay sat in the passenger seat of the car. I cannot get over that. Yeah. I just feel deep deep sadness for
her. Like I'm sending her all of my condolences at all times. Yeah. So Clara had just learned two weeks earlier that
David was having an affair with his secretary Gail Bridges. How cliche. Obviously that was absolutely
devastating to her for so many reasons, but they had been married for 10 years at that point. They had threeyear-old
twins. Wow. Three-year-old twins at that point. Three years old. And she's being
told that she's like not bouncing back quick enough. Oh yeah. Because remember in part one, that's another part to
revisit. Yeah. She had him sit down with her and make a list of all their attributes that like she so she could
compare to make herself better, which is horrifying. The saddest thing I think I've ever heard. And he wrote down that
Gail had almost a per a perfect body with almost no fat. And that good for Gail. Clara was a large person, too big.
And again, she had three old twins. So, so that's [ __ ] terrible. That's cool. But also, so that all of that was
devastating. And they also were owners of multiple practices across Houston together and he's cheating with one of
their employees. Yeah. When you think about that, like her money that she's earning, Clara is going to this woman
who's having an affair with her husband, paying this woman's salary, who's having
an affair with her husband. Yeah. Not anymore, though, because remember, she got fired. She got fired. Clara said,
"Hand over those keys." So, now that she knew pretty much everything there was to
know about her husband's affair, Clara wanted to know more about Gail Bridges. Who was this woman who had managed to
easily lure her husband away? You don't want to know. She You know what, though?
You do. No, no, I know you want to know. That's why I just looked at you. But for
real, you don't. It's not going to do anything for you. It's not going to do anything for you. Upset you more. It's I
totally understand people's response to this. Oh, 100%. Cuz I have to know everything about everything, too. Even
like when it's a bad thing. Oh yeah. I can't imagine this specific bad thing. It's never good though. Oh, it's
awesome. It just never ends in you being like, "Wow, I feel so much better for having known that." I know. Well, she
found out g that Gail I mean she knew that Gail had worked for the company for several months, but Clara didn't really
know a lot about her. So, she started asking around. What she learned about Gail was kind of just a mix of vapid
facts, salacious rumors, and obviously biased opinions. But one thing caught her off guard. Caught Clara off guard.
Supposedly, Gail had left her husband years earlier to be in a relationship with another woman. So, the news was
unconfirmed. It was just a rumor, but it was confusing to Clara. Her understanding of sexual identity.
Remember this is like very early 2000s in Texas. Her understanding was somewhat rigid. Yeah. She wondered how could Gail
be interested in a sexual romantic relationship with David if she was a lesbian which like you can be in a
relationship with a woman and not be a lesbian in case anybody was confused. Yeah. So upon learning more about Gail,
Clara got determined to learn as much as she possibly could. Every time she learns a new piece of information, she
wants more and more and more and more. Yeah. See, it's a slippery slope. And she didn't just want information, she
wanted revenge. Great band. To that end, on July 22nd, Clara made an appointment
with Blue Moon Investigations, which was a private investigation firm that she found in the yellow pages of the phone
book. The yellow pages. Yeah. A few hours later, she found herself sitting down with the with Blue Moon's owners,
Lucas and Bobby Baka, where she handed out a large sum of cash in advance. What she wanted, she explained to them, was
them to just surveil Gail Bridges to get any information or even possibly recordings of her with her supposed
lover, Julian Knight, that Clara could use to publicly shame Gail and ruin her reputation, which is like homophobic and
annoying. And also, it's not doing anything. No. And this is where it's not doing it. That's childish. It's
childish. And this is where I Clara really loses me. Yeah. She's thinking that she's gonna publicly shame this
woman for being a lesbian. Yeah. And it's like, nope. And also, and it's literally just like, for why? Yeah.
Like, that's just it doesn't What do you get out of that? It's not doing anything. Like, this is doing nothing
but wasting your [ __ ] time. And if you're truly wanting to work on your marriage, you do have to now concentrate
on the girl in the dirt and the like get her out of here. You know, that's the thing. Like, make sure she's gone. Like
that doesn't mean obsessing over her, which obviously again better easier said than done, but it's like this just isn't
going through this big thing to like publicly shame her and [ __ ] is just not it's not worth your time. It's not
conducive to anything and it's very childish. Regardless of how angry you are or upset, that's childish. It just
is. It is. But the invest the private investigators assured Clara none of this would be any problem. The case file on
Gail Bridges actually came together pretty quickly because it turned out that during her pro her divorce
proceedings three years earlier, Gail's husband, Steve, had accused her of carrying on an affair with her friend
Julie Knight. Oh. It didn't take long for the accusations to get back to Julie's husband, Chuck Knight, who then
in turn filed his own divorce papers alleging his wife was having an affair with Gail. So, this is messy as hell
now. And Gail is messy as hell. Well, neither man offered any evidence. Gail's messy for having an affair with uh
David, but her affair with Julie is unconfirmed. It seems like it might have just been helpful for her husband to
have this in divorce proceedings kind of thing. Yeah, we've seen that. Yeah, cuz
neither man offered any evidence to support their claims. And according to Valerie Davenport, who ended up being a
lawyer for both Julie and Gail, she said the tale of the affair had been invented
by their husbands as a way to divert attention from their own improper misconduct. Ah, apparently Steve Bridges
you had alleged alcoholism and drug abuse and Chuck Knight had his own alleged extrammarital affair. Alleged.
Alleged. For the Bakas, the private investigators, the details in the actual facts didn't really matter very much. So
what they reported was only what appeared in public record. Yeah. So throughout the day, the the bizarre
story started to grow in size and in stranges. It turned out that in 2001, just a couple years earlier, a year
earlier, Julie and Gail had appeared on an episode of the daytime talk show, I don't know if you've heard of it, Sally
Jesse Raphael. Oh, holy [ __ ] The with the glasses. Oh, with the glasses. I remember Sally Jesse Raphael. I never
saw it. It was before my time, but Okay. Just kidding. But Julie and Gail appeared in an
episode entitled My Husband Spies on Me. Shut up. So, this is a real This is an episode. Yes. My Gail is in Google My
Husband spies on me. Sally, Jesse, Raphael, and they're in it. But wearing wigs and dark glasses to disguise their
appearances because daytime talk show. I cannot. Yeah. And because their husband
spies on them. And because their husband spies on them. Julie and Gail described
how their husbands tried to portray them as lesbians in order to get favorable outcomes in their respective divorces,
which is [ __ ] up. It is super [ __ ] up. A few weeks later, after David's murder, the press seized on this
information because obviously it is the perfect thing to write a sleazy story about. Of course, they were hoping that
the scandal, however fabricated it was, would drive readership and it worked. They don't care if it's real. No. The
story of David Harris's murder became a national news story within just days of his death. The Houston Chronicle was
publishing photos of the women in their wigs from the Sally Jesse Raphael episode, elevating the story from one of
local interest to a bizarre sex scandal that would obviously fascinate the nation cuz it is bizarre. It is bizarre.
Like, it's very bizarre the whole thing. It's so layered at this point. Yeah. Other tabloid and tabloid adjacent
papers followed suit. The New York Post declared a headline reading, "Bisexual triangle led to car slay of hubby.
Who wrote that? That's a lot. I wanna That's a lot. I want to talk to the person. I got to talk to you about that
because that one is a lot. That's a lot. They also compared Gail Bridges to the character of Hester Prinn from the
Scarlet Letter, which like do better. Yeah. I mean, that that's also just like, okay, unoriginal. Yeah. Like,
okay, Scarlet A, we get it. Okay. Julie Knight said, "It is madness. There's no other way to describe it." But I feel
bad that she got dragged into it because from the sounds of it, Gail and Julie, like when Gail and Julie were married to
their respective partners, they were all friends and then they just decided to Yeah. It doesn't sound like this scheme.
Doesn't really sound like they had a relationship. Yeah. But within days of David's death, photos of Clara, David,
Gail, and Julie were just plastered across every newspaper, every tabloid, TV talk shows all across the country.
Julie told Skip Hollensworth in 2002, "You really do think you have your life worked out. You really do think nothing
can go too wrong. And now here we all are on the front pages of newspapers." That's rough. But you feel bad for her
specifically cuz she has nothing to do. She's such a side like character in this
whole thing. It's you feel really bad for her. It's really sad given the timeline. It would seem kind of
impossible too that Bobby and Lucas Baka could have dug up so much information about Gail Bridges. It was just like a
day and a half before the murder took place. Oh wow. That Gail got all of this information. Yeah. But they didn't seem
to have any trouble putting together a large file on Gail in a matter of like hours essentially. It was only after the
murder that Clara learned the real reason. Blue Moon Investigations had also been hired by Julie's ex-husband
Chuck Knight to surveil his wife who he believed was having an affair with his with her best friend Gail Bridges. Uh,
Bobby Baka followed both women for days and ultimately came up with nothing. So,
like I said, it doesn't seem like they were even having an affair. She actually told Chuck Knight, "They acted like
Wilma and Betty from the Flintstones and there was nothing quote unquote lesbianike about their behavior."
Nothing. What is lesbian like? Is that just like if they start making out? If they just start like fuking in the
street, is that lesbian? Like, like what? I'm like, it sounds like they were just best friends that were like hanging
out and probably going through hard times in their marriages. Yeah. But please, Bobby, let us do tell about
lesbian lifeisms. But according to Bobby, when she reported her chuck her findings to Chuck Knight, he asked her
to inflame the lesbian aspects of the report again to help him in his divorce proceedings. This is all alleged. After
that, Bobby filed the report away. didn't really think anything else about it until a few months later when Gail
and Julie showed up at her office. They both intended to hire Blue Moon to investigate their husbands, but only
Julie ended up going through with it and Bobby opened a case into Chuck Knight's
life. Ah, among the things that Bobby learned was that Chuck was allegedly having an affair of his own with a woman
named Lorie, who was a part-time baton twirling instru instructor and a wife of a local builder. How How are these
people real? That's what I want to know. You know what? It's so Texas. Like that's real wild. Everything's bigger in
Texas. Time baton twirling instructor. Yeah, why not? You can't make that up. You can't. You really can't. Everything
is in fact bigger and more bodacious and wild. In Texas, apparently. So when Bobby brought the report to Gail and
Julie, the women were stunned. Steve and Lorie Wells had also been very close friends with the Knights in the Bridges
until they drifted apart. Oh, damn. So, because So, Chuck was having an affair with Lorie. So, like all these people
who are friends, like these couple friends allegedly are all having an affair with one or other people. Wow.
Adorable. Yeah. So, after months of court appointments and back and forth with the
lawyers, all three women ended up getting divorced from their husbands, which I would say is good. Probably
great for everybody. Great for everybody. But that's how Gail Bridges found herself in the employee of David
Harris. And it wasn't until 6 or seven months later when Clara hired Blue Moon to follow her husband that the lives of
all these people then became pretty tenuously connected. And only through all of their connections to the Blue
Moon private investigation firm, which like damn, these people got business, huh? Yeah. Seriously. But when Clara
first met with Bobby to hire Blue Moon Investigations firm a few days before David was ultimately killed, Bobby
didn't recognize Gail or Julie's names and assigned the case to one of her part-time investigators. It was only
after the murder that she made the connections. And then by at that point, the media had also made the connections
and started playing up all these crazy aspects of the story. So that's how it got as big as really like inflamed. Yes.
Now, by the time she went on trial in late January 2003, Clara Harris had become a household name across the US
because of all this. Yeah. Her story of a suburban sex scandal and a woman driven to murder had for some reason
resonated with a certain segment of the population. Ah, I can't imagine this story resonating. I'm so sad that it
resonated. I know. You know, like that's just like damn. Yeah. Like can you imagine? No. Like if this is the story
that you're like, "Been there, sister. No." Like that's hard. No, no, not been there, sister. Honey,
no. So, while the tabloids focused on the sensational aspects of the story, like the sex lives of everybody involved
or, you know, tangentally involved. Yeah. Others speculated on the motive or just simply gave their uninformed
opinions on the matter. Yeah. Which is literally what we're doing. So that's exactly what we're doing is what I'm
we're speaking from a points of total not knowing what this feels like. You know, according to Skip
Hollinssworth, local radio talk shows were jammed with callers saying that Clara should not be severely punished
for what she had done, reasoning that she never would have committed murder had her husband not cheated on her.
Okay, here's the thing. Like, go off. Here's the thing. No. No. Because those two two things can be true at once.
Yeah. Would she have committed murder if this didn't happen? Probably not. I don't
think so. Probably not. But that doesn't mean that she shouldn't mean she shouldn't that she should have done it
like or that she's somehow like just relieved of all, you know, guilt for having done it. Then that would mean
that every single woman who's ever been cheated on can run their husband over with their car. That's pretty [ __ ]
lawless. or that anytime someone commits murder in like a crime of passion or something like that, you're like, would
they have committed murder if like this had to happen? Probably not, right? So, I guess we won't punish them for it
because whoops slippery slope. That's the thing. And I get it. Emotions are high. People who
probably have cheating spouses are sitting there being like, "Yeah, like let it let it all happen." But it's like
you really have to take it down about a hundred notches and take yourself totally out of the emotions of it and
say, "Yeah, I get that you are upset. I get that sucks. I get that you can sit there and be like, I want to run him
over with my car." Like saying that as like a I'm frustrated. Hyperbole. Hyperbole. That's the the key here. And
it's like, in the words of Zach from the Valley, is hyperbole dead, everybody? There you go. They Elena doesn't watch.
I don't watch The Valley, so I don't know, but I'll trust you. And But that's and it's like you nobody's taking this
as like a human thing. No. That like yes shitty thing shitty things like leading
up to this for sure. She had every right to be angry. She had every reason to lash out at times and get upset and act
you know a little foolishly at times. Like you can even put that aside a little bit. Mhm. You cannot excuse
murdering someone because they were terrible to you even like you know what I mean like like that they hurt
your feelings and that they betrayed you even. You can't justify it. Slippery cuz
that's a slippery ass slope cuz like everybody takes betrayal a different way. And you can't just blanketly say,
"Well, he did this shitty thing so he deserved it." Yeah. You can't do that. We would have a reckless nation. It
would be a lawless nation. It's like you can't do that. Yeah. So, it's like we got to take it back to being rational
humans here and rational adults and say, "Yeah, you have every right to be pissed. You can't do that. You don't
have every right to have a vehicle." He shouldn't have lost his life. No. Should
he have been, you know, should he have had some of his money spent on her behalf? Absolutely. Yeah. Even the even
the DA says that later. Yeah. Should he have had to like, you know, should he have had to hear it from her?
Absolutely. Should he have had to repair his relationships with everyone around him and had to go through the hardship
of that? Absolutely. And he should bend over backwards for it. But he shouldn't have been murdered. It's just not. No,
it's it's pretty black and white to me. I agree. I I agree wholeheartedly. Well,
the sympathy that many people seem to have for Clara wasn't just lost on the press. Once the trial opened, a lot of
outlets reported on the fact that her high-priced defense attorneys were paid for at least in part by David's parents.
Wow. Which is these are big people. It's Wow. This was very shocking to me, this
piece, but I was like, I think these are good people. Like I can't imagine the parents. Yeah. Just so throughout the
trial, it was actually common to see David's parents escort Clara, their daughter-in-law, in and out of court
each day and sit behind her in a show of support. Wow. In their statement to the
press, the Harrises said, "As a good Christian family, they had forgiven their daughter-in-law and hoped she
would remain free to raise the young twin boys that she had shared with her husband."
Those are I'm just bigger people than me. I'm stunned by that. that this is a shocking case. I would say that is one
of the most shocking cases. That's honestly very shocking. I can't even comment on that cuz I don't even That's
shocking. It's It's a whole other level. That's a whole different thing. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's like shocking.
Yeah. I can't say that I would feel the same, but like I don't think I could get
to that place. I really give them a lot of credit because that's a whole other level of forgiveness. Yeah. That I have
never found in my heart. Yeah. I don't think I will ever find that nor but wild and lucky [ __ ] Clara. Yeah. Can you
like how do you face your mother-in-law after running down her child? Yeah, that's Wow. Well, for her part, Clara
did seem to be remorseful for what she had done. As her lawyer, George Parnham, said in a 2002 interview, it was rare to
find Clara not weeping. And Clara was having was still having difficulty believing that David would never again
walk through the front door of their home. Cuz again, I think she blanked out, man. I really do. I don't think she
was with it. I think I definitely think she feels regret. Yeah. But I still think she needed to be punished. Yeah.
Prior to the Harris murder and prior to Clara's trial, George Parnum had actually gained national notoriety as
the defense attorney for Andrea Yates. And for anybody that doesn't know Andrea Yates, she was a Houston mother who
drowned her five children in 2001. I'm not going to say and just so you know, we will literally never cover that
case. And you don't want to hear us cover. Yeah, you don't want to hear my opinions. So, but that notoriety brought
even more attention to an already heavily watched story. the fact that this guy is the same guy who repped
Andrea Yates. Oh yeah, I would say so. That's a whole damn Yeah, we're not talking about that. Yeah, that's a
horrible case. But when the trial finally did get started, Parnham laid out the defense in his opening
statement. When he when she learned of her husband's affair with Gail Bridges, he said Clara was deeply hurt but
willing to work on their marriage, provided David end his relationship, which he did agree to do. But when Clara
learned that contrary to what they had agreed upon, David had checked into the Nassau Bay Hilton with Gail. Clara quote
acted in the heat of anger and betrayal which I do think is what happened. I think that's correct like you know at
the very base level of what it is. I think you're stating facts for sure. Yep. A little more nuanced than that. I
would say yes. Yes. Which is true, but it's it's a little more nuance. That's the perfect way to say it. He said once
she came out of her rage induced fog and uh realized what she had done, she was immediately remorseful and she cradled
David's head in her hands and insisted that he begin breathing. She was according to Parnham desperate to quote
keep her family together to bring her husband of 10 years back to her which he had tried to do through cosmetic surgery
and other beauty products. That this just so sad. It's tragic. It really is. Unlike the outcome in the Yates case,
Parnham's defense of Clara stood a fairly good chance of success with the jury though, which was uh composed of
nine women and three men, which I was like, damn, where was the selection there, right? Nine women and three men.
Damn, that's a that's a for real jury of your peers. Yeah, it is. During jury selection, one potential juror said,
"Any married woman can relate to Clara Harris." Uh, married woman here. Nope. I'm gonna go on the record and say no.
Married woman. Nope. I can't can't say that I do. Two married women right here do not relate to Clare Harris. Another
juror was potential juror was dismissed when she said she quote nicked her husband with a truck after discovering
him with a mistress years ago. Some of these things are inside thoughts that I think uh Texas is crazy. Some of
these things are go to the grave with I feel confident in saying Texas is a wild
place. It's a wild place. And like even I I feel confident saying that because even Texans say that. Yes. Like, and
this story is just such a prime example of Texas being a wild place. Just the fact that this just opened up women just
being like, "Oh, don't worry. I too hit my husband's mistress with my car." Like, it's just like, "Whoa, everybody.
This is not like everybody admit." I don't think in Boston you Well, you know what? Never mind. I'm not kidding. I
don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. But strangely, I was just saying like she's so lucky that there are so
many women on the jury, but even the men in the jury pool seemed open to her defense. One man said he had been
accused of assault when he discovered his wife's infidelity. So, he understood the impulse. He said, "Here's the thing.
I think they are correct in what they're saying. Some of them like being like, I
understand the that you got out of yourself. I can like I think they're almost looking at it like we are where
we're like, I understand the emotion behind it." Yes, that's driving you to this like place of just no return. But
I'm not the act and I'm not understanding not pulling yourself back from that point of no return. Hopefully,
but you can look at it and go, okay, I get that you are upset. I get it. Like you had every right to be upset and some
of them are like I've been there. It's the ones that are like I too have nicked my husband with the car and it's like
whoa. Okay, we're not in the same here. We didn't give that enough attention. Did you say you nicked nicked them?
nicked your husband with your car. Crazy. Just gave him a little boop. Like that's all. You can't nick someone with
your car. You either hit them or you don't. It's a motor vehicle. Like and that's a human body. Like that's you
don't nick someone. You nick someone with like some tweezers or like a some trimmers. No, your toenail cutters. And
that's where the that's where my issue is lying is like we're getting they're getting outside of the real point here
of like of like the emotions and the the betrayal and and all that is not coming
into question. Uhuh. It's the act that followed it. It's like you can It's just the same thing. You can get
upset, you can feel betrayed, you can scream, you can yell, you can act a little out of yourself. I get it. Like I
would I I can't imagine I I'm not going to sit here and say I would be in total control of my emotions and myself. No,
I'm barely in control of my emotions on a good day when I'm happy. I'm barely in
control of it. So it's like I I get that. And it's like but you just there's no excuse. And if for running someone
over three times in your car with their child in the car, there's just no excuse
for that. and to sit there and give the like, well, yeah, like you know, like I beat the [ __ ] out of my wife's, you
know, side piece there, right? And I caught a case for it, so I get it. And it's like, one, that's you shouldn't do
that. And two, that's a little different. It's a little different running someone over in the car three
times with the child in the car. Jury selection for this case sounded buck wild. I think people were just like, it
sounds like people were just kind of they found a lot of people who could relate to this, which is really sad. We
all need to to be better to our loved ones. Well, to sum it all up in one statement, one of the trial watchers
told a reporter, there's the rule of law and then there's the rule of law in Texas. The rule of law in Texas, it's
kind of cowboy law. It's a fine line between sanity and madness. I think that encompasses the movie. No,
I think that encompasses this entire [ __ ] case. It literally does. There is the rule of law and then there's the
rule of law in Texas. I Skip Hollinssworth covers so many cases in Texas. And whenever I do cover a case in
Texas, he's usually a source I'll use. And all of those cases that he has reported on throughout the years and all
of the cases that we have covered in morbid throughout the years, the Texas ones are among the [ __ ]
craziest stories I've ever read in my life. Yeah, Texas is just like, and they even say it like that. This is a man
from Texas. It's cowboy law. And I think that's the thing. I think they're just more willing to say that
like we all felt like we wanted to run someone over in a car. She just did it. And it's like, yeah, okay, I don't maybe
keep that stuff inside. Like I don't that's a lot. Like that there's just so many people openly being like, yeah, I
got it. It's like like please be specific. Tell me you get the emotion. Yeah, you got it. No one's saying that.
Everyone's just saying I get it. You got to be specific. And it's like no, we don't get it. We can't get that. We
can't get murdering someone cuz you're mad. The prosecution didn't. That's a good thing. Good news. Yeah. However
sympathetic Clara Harris looked to the jury and anybody even watching the trial, the prosecution flatly rejected
the sudden passion defense and instead pointed to the evidence which they believed would show the murder to be at
least deliberate, if not entirely planned. I don't think, personally, I don't think this was planned. Doesn't
feel I think it was deliberate. I think it was 100% deliberate. Had a moment where she said, "I'm going to run him
the [ __ ] over with my car." And then followed through on it. I don't think that she thought I don't think she woke
up that morning and thought that. I don't think that either. That's just my feeling as a person looking at this case
completely from the outside and hearing. I think she woke up that morning in a really bad emotional state that only got
worse throughout the day. Yeah, I think so, too. And I think she made a poor decision
with going out to look for Yeah. them. Because I think in that emotional state, there should have been a little
self-regulation here to say, I am in a highly emotional state about this. I feel some type of way. I should not go
out looking because also go like I don't I don't know that she had a plan when she did ultimately find them, but you're
sitting like you're going to find them at some point. You're hunting them down. So, what's the plan from there? And
Lindsay never ever ever should have been invited to go along for this. That's really my huge sticking point here.
Obviously, the murder and the entire thing having Lindsay involved in any way, shape, or form should never ever
ever have happened. Yeah. And that honestly should have been the like come down to earth moment of like Lindsay
being around is being like, "Okay, self-regulate." Yeah. Like I have someone that should have been your
thing. And it's and it is a little that was scary that like that didn't regulate
her. Well, Lindsay ended up testifying and I do think that helped bring people down to earth in on the jury away from
like the emotional impact of everything and you know relating to hating your husband. Yeah. Well, on the first day of
the trial, the prosecution called, like I just said, Lindsay Harris to testify against her stepmother. Lindsay
explained that they had gone out looking for her father and Gail that afternoon and how once she learned where they
were, Clara seemed determined to kill David. Lindsay told the jury she said she would kill my father for what he'd
done to her. Now again, who knows if that's like hyperbolic, like I think we've all said, "I'm going to kill, oh
my god, I'm going to kill him." Like, "Oh my god, you don't say that to a kid. You should never say that. I don't care
how old that kid is. 16 years old is still a kid." And it's like, you don't say that about their father. And you
ended up killing him later that day. So that's not great that you said that. Makes it seem like you had a plan here.
Mhm. Which, you know, maybe she did. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But in his opening statement, George
Parnum had, you know, tried to frame the murder as something akin to an accident.
Clara hadn't gone into the hotel in order to kill anyone, but after the brawl in the lobby, she was in a highly
aroused emotional state and acted without thinking. And he challenged the prosecution's claim that Clara had
driven over her husband multiple times, telling the jury that she only hit him once. Despite his best efforts to frame
Clara in a sympathetic light as a woman who had made a terrible mistake, the evidence and the testimony of those
present at the hotel when Davis David Harris was killed was all of those people were telling a very different
story. It's I go back to the cackling. The cackling and she absolutely ran over him more than one time. There's video
evidence of it. Yeah. Lindsay testified she was on a mission to find out where he was. She was determined. They had
tricked her. they had hidden from her and she was upset by that. And once she found David and Gail, she waited to make
her move. In her testimony, Lindsay told the jury that her father was quote really scared when he saw Clara's car
barreling toward him. She said, "I know he was trying to get away and he couldn't." Oh, that's awful. And this is
this will make you cry. She described what it was like when she quote felt the bumps and knew that Clara had driven
over her father again and again and then put the the car in reverse and hit him a
third time. Holy [ __ ] Like that's You see that's where like it's like the salaciousness
of everything. Everybody's like, "Oh my god, yeah, I get it." Blah blah blah. And then you go down this case to the
real [ __ ] in this case. It's like 16year-old girl. Disgusting. It's a 16-year-old girl who was brought along
to run over her father and now has to probably relive that at least every other day of her life. Yeah. Like that
is trauma that you will never unpack. Never. And she never asked for that to happen to her. And she by there's not
one person among us that could say that that would not affect them. No deeply. No. And I can't. That's where like
that's like a whole other like Clara killed somebody and then she the emotional trauma that she inflicted on
Lindsay. I almost wish there was a charge for that. Yeah. Honestly, but she seemed to feel remorse, I guess. As she
listened to Lindsay's testimony, her loud sobbing filled the courtroom to the point where she was repeatedly
reprimanded by the judge who eventually told her either you'll sit here in a composed manner or you will be removed
from the courtroom. I don't blame him. Which is like quiet down. Yeah. It's like, get it together. This isn't your
moment to lose your [ __ ] This Exactly. This is her moment to tell her story. Now, from the outside of the trial,
there was never a plan for Clara to testify on her own behalf. Uh-oh. But about a week in, she stunned everyone
when she insisted that she did want to testify in her own defense, despite her lawyer's own objections.
On the day of her testimony, George Parnum was already in a tremendous amount of stress, which was exacerbated
by the fact that he also had terrible flu at that time. Oh no. Flu symptoms notwithstanding, he did do his best to
proceed as normal when he called Clara to the stand. In her testimony, Clara said of her relationship with David, "We
were best friends. We were very much in love." According to her, she and her husband had been incredibly close
romantically and professionally all until Gail came along. In her testimony heard early in the trial, Gail had
explained that David told her he and Clara had an open marriage, which was the only reason she started to see him
to begin with. I will literally never give any ounce of credence to that. That's what every side chick is told and
you can't believe it. Yeah. You just can't. And honestly, if you're not having any like I don't know. It's so
easy for someone to say that. If you're in an open marriage, let your wife confirm it. Exactly. That's what you
need to say to somebody to a man or a woman who tells you that they are in an open relationship or an open marriage.
You want confirmation directly from their partner cuz how anybody can say that anybody take it at face value.
Exactly. And nine out of 10 times it's not the And also, here's where like my I'm like I call [ __ ] on that because
it's like she could tell that everybody in that office was uncomfortable and was
probably sitting there and being like like what's going on here? If they were in an open marriage then nobody would be
batting an eye. Exactly. Cuz he could do whatever he wanted. And also why are they sneaking around if he's in an open
marriage? Well, that's the thing. Did you act like that when Clara came into the office? That's the thing. It's like
sounds like you were sneaking around. Yeah. So, it's like if you're in an open marriage, I would assume you don't have
to do that. And supposedly, who knows exactly what happened that day, but supposedly when Clara went in and fired
her, she accused Gail of having the relationship. And Gail supposedly denied it, if that's what it in fact happened.
So, it's like why wouldn't you just sit there and say, "I'm so sorry. I thought you were in an open marriage. He lied to
both of us." Exactly. That's when you like sisters unite right there. Exactly. That's when you become a girl's girl.
And you say, "Holy shit." I don't think he told her that. And even if he did, I think she was naive to believe that. I
think so, too. Uh, that statement grew an incredible amount of sarcastic criticism from Clara, who also rejected
it entirely. As for the murder itself, though, Clara explained, "I was extremely upset. He
was holding Gail's hand the way he used to hold my hand when I was special to him." By the time she was in the car and
pulling out of the parking sp space, she described herself as being in a quote fog, like in a dream. She claimed that
she had a blackout and she wasn't in control. She said, "All of this happened in a fraction of a second. I didn't have
time to think." The court broke for lunch just after she walked through the events of her
husband's murder. And just as George Parnum stepped outside of the courtroom to get some air, he collapsed in the
hallway and passed out, lying on the floor for about 20 minutes before he ended up being removed by paramedics.
Holy [ __ ] The press immediately keyed in on that fact uh on the fact that just
prior to Parnham passing out, Clara had more or less confessed to murder. And people were like, "Hey, maybe those two
events are linked." The fact that his client just confessed to murder on the stand when he never wanted her to
testify at all and then he just passed out. Yeah. Yeah. So, that made the case um even more sensational, if you can
imagine. The judge was not very sympathetic though and considered it to be one more unprofessional stunt and a
series of attention grabbing moments in this case, which I don't blame her. I'd be [ __ ] pissed if that's how my
courtroom was going down. I'd be like, "Come on, guys. Now listen to this. On February 13th, 2003,
just one day before what would have been Clara and David's 11th wedding anniversary, the jury retired for
deliberation. Wow. How does that even happen? How does that happen? How does that even happen? That's wild. In her
closing statement, assistant district attorney Mia Magnus focused entirely on the evidence of the case and the rule of
the law. She told the jury, "If the man is cheating on you, this is exactly what
we're saying. You do what every other woman in this country does. You take him to the cleaners." Exactly. You don't
kill him. Yes. It's just That's just the That's just life, man. Yeah. You know, George Parna, meanwhile, continued his
attempt to frame the murder as a crime of passion. He described Gail Bridges as a home wrecker who enticed and seduced
David into a relationship that should never have happened. And he argued that if Clara had intended to kill her
husband that night, why would she have brought along his daughter knowing what she would do to traumatize the girl for
the rest of her life? And you would hope that's the truth that if that was a plan
that she wouldn't have brought. And that's the thing, maybe there's no malice of forethought there. Yeah. But
and he died. Well, and her saying like, you know, I was out of control of myself
and like blah blah blah. like, yeah, okay. But as human beings and as adults, we have to maintain to become in
control. It's just not an excuse to get out of control. Like, it just isn't. That's just the way we run things here.
Like, you can't that's that's the law. I'm sure that happened, but that's on you, man. That you didn't get into
control, especially with that kid in the car, right? Like, this just can't get away from that. Yeah. So the next day
the jury returned their verdict the day that would have been her 11th wedding anniversary which is just the irony
there is not lost on anyone. Darkly poetic. Yeah. They found Clara Harris guilty of the murder of her husband.
Later that day during the sentencing phase, Clara was asked if she had anything to say and she turned to her
stepdaughter Lindsay and said, "I'm sorry, Lindsay. I'm sorry, baby." Which is like you got to say a whole lot
more than that. That's not going to do it. That's never gonna Yeah. Yeah. At the same time, the jury had the option
of accepting the sudden passion defense, which carried a sentence of two to 20 years or a seconddegree murder sentence,
which was up to 99 years. Wo. Because the case didn't meet the special circumstances threshold, the death
penalty was not on the table. Before the sentence could be passed, the judge had
to stop the proceedings on account of Clara hysterically sobbing, which made it completely impossible for anyone in
the courtroom to hear anything, which once again, you have to get it together. Yeah, she has no control over. Yeah, you
are not in control right now when it's showing. The judge warned her, "Be quiet. I'm going to give you one more
chance. Don't blow it or you will be out of this courtroom." Damn. And this time,
her attorney, George Parnham, stood up for his client, saying she just got convicted of murder. I mean, yeah, but
it's like but it's still a court of did that murder. And again, as an adult, you
literally need to find some goddamn way to control yourself. That's the And also, like the whole thing is like you
have been highly emotional and out of control this entire time. It's not like you just fell apart. Like you've been
screaming and sobbing the whole time. Like you can't do that. Yeah, you just can't. And it's not really helping your
case at all. It's really not. Once the courtroom was finally back in order, the judge read the sentence that was handed
down from the jury. 20 years in prison with a minimum of 10 served before becoming eligible for parole, which I
would say is a pretty sweet [ __ ] deal. That's a pretty after running your husband over with your car multiple
times. Yeah, I would say so. In her statement to the press, the assistant district attorney said that she was
pleased with the outcome. She said after hearing all the evidence, this jury recognized the case for what it was and
that it is the senseless taking of a human life. their verdict recognized Mrs. Harris's conduct and they didn't
excuse it. I was overwhelmed with just how tragic the whole thing was and that it seemed to me the victim was getting
lost in the process which it I think this case was so heavily sensationalized and I'm sure the the people who could
relate to Clara had some kind of hatred in their heart for David. So he did very
much get lost in this process. I can see that for sure. And he made a bad choice
by stepping out on his wife and he made a bad choice of bad choices by stepping out on his family and not ending the
relationship. But he was also a human being. He was also a father. And you can't just kill people because they hurt
your feelings. Because they hurt your feelings. And that that really does come down to that. No matter how much they
hurt your feelings. His life should have been a little more precious than that. Yeah. It was Yeah. It's just not The
punishment for cheating is not death. It just isn't. No. I know it feels like when you're on the other side of it that
maybe that's that feels like it should be the punishment. But the reality of the situation is it's not. It's just
not. Yeah. So, a year after the sentence was passed, Clara did appeal the verdict
uh to the court of appeals for the first district of Texas on the grounds that among other things, the judge didn't
allow the inclusion of two videotapes showing the murder and the fact that the judge refused to impeach a witness who
they thought lied on the stand. But on all points, the appeals court sided with the trial judge, finding it was
reasonable to defer to experts in excluding the tapes and deferring to the judge's judgment when it came to witness
testimony. In their conclusion, they said, "We note that even if the appalent were correct in her interpretation of
the law, she could not show harm. Therefore, the order of the argument did not disadvantage Appalent in meeting her
burden." So they said, "Stay in jail. Stay in jail. Stay in jail." In 2018, in May of 2018, after serving 15 years of
her 20-year sentence, Clara Harris was released on parole. In the years since her release, she has completed the terms
of her probation and has concluded her obligation to the state. She is now a free woman. Wow. And hopefully doesn't
drive around often. Yeah. And maintains her control. Yeah. I mean, she hasn't popped up in the news again, so that's
good. So, there's that. Yeah. But I just what a devastating tale. Truly. Yeah. I
feel the most for Lindsay. Yeah. And then their other two children who not only lost their father but then lost
their mother for 15 years. That's the thing. Like they grew up without two parents. Yeah. They absolutely did. And
that's awful. No matter if she regretted it or not. Yeah. Like everyone loses in
this scenario. Everyone lost. Clara lost. She lost her freedom which she should have. for the time being. Lindsay
lost her dad and a stepmom who she actually really liked up until that point. And those twins lost both their
parents. And the Harris has lost their son. Yeah. And somehow stood by Clara, which I just really commend them for
that. That's that's big people. Yeah. Like that's what a devastating case. That's just everyone so layered.
Everyone just And it's very interesting to see how everybody had their own two cents, you know. Yeah, even us. Even us,
you know, we've always got our own two cents. We've always got our own two cents. Four cents right here. Yep.
That's right. Well, with that being said, we definitely hope you keep listening. Yeah. And we hope you keep it
weird. And tell us your two cents. Yeah. I want to know what you think. [Music] [Music]
[Music]

Part 2 of 2: On the afternoon of July 24, 2002, Clara Harris learned that her husband, David Harris, was having an affair with his secretary. Incensed, Clara went to the hotel where the David and his mistress had just checked in and confronted the couple before being escorted out by hotel staff. However, the argument between David and Clara continued in the parking lot, only ending when Clara ran her husband down with her car, driving over him three separate times and killing him.

The trial of Clara Harris proved to be as exciting and dramatic as the marriage and the explosive argument that ended David’s life. The defense had tried to frame the murder as a crime of passion, an act of “sudden passion” committed by a woman rejected and scorned. That defense fell apart immediately when, without warning or expectation, Clara Harris decided to testify on her own behalf, at which point she essentially confessed to murder, sending the courtroom into chaos.

The trial of Clara Harris for the murder of her husband garnered national attention, not only for the defense of “sudden passion,” but also for the unusually high amount of drama and scandalous details that emerged in the testimony at trial.

Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!

References Clara L. Harris v. The State of Texas. 2004. 01-03-00177-CR (Court of Appeals for the First District of Texas, December 16).

Hollandsworth, Skip. 2002. "Suburban madness." Texas Monthly, November: 117-169.

Long, Steven. 2004. Out of Control. New York, NY: St. Martin's.

Madigan, Nick. 2003. "Houston woman on trial in killing of husband testifies." New York Times, February 6.

—. 2003. "Jury gives 20-year term in murder of husband." New York Times, February 15.

—. 2003. "Trial in killing of orthodontist goes to jury." New York Times, February 13.

—. 2003. "Wife testifies she was 'in a fog' just before her car struck." New York Times, February 8.

—. 2003. "Woman who killed spouse with car is guilty of murder." New York Times, February 14.

—. 2003. "Youth who saw killing says stepmother 'stomped' accelerator and 'went for' father." New York Times, January 30.

Zernike, Kate. 2003. "A wife betrayed finds sympathy at murder trial." New York Times, January 24.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

Clara Harris murdered her husband David after discovering his affair, leading to a sensational trial and tragic family fallout.

Key points

The Murder of David Harris. A harrowing tale begins with Clara Harris running over her husband, David, while their daughter was in the car.
Clara's Descent into Obsession. Clara becomes fixated on learning about her husband's affair with Gail Bridges, leading her to hire private investigators.
Media Frenzy After David's Death. David's murder becomes a national scandal, with tabloids sensationalizing the story and dragging innocent parties into the spotlight.
Clara Harris: A Household Name. Clara Harris became infamous due to her suburban sex scandal and murder case.
The Shocking Support. David's parents supported Clara during her trial, showcasing an unexpected level of forgiveness.
Texas Law: A Wild West Perspective. The trial highlighted the unique and often chaotic nature of justice in Texas.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I'm not a medical doctor, so don't listen to me.

Ash humorously warns against taking her advice seriously.

1:31WatchJun 23, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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