The Missoula Mauler /// Part 2 /// 432 | Forensic Files

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all right so where we left off yesterday we have two suspects one passed the polygraph test one did not Wayne Nance
passed the polygraph according to what we have found and the husband Harvey pounds the results were listed as
inconclusive there was some real holdback information we called [ __ ] on some of the other yesterday but there
was some real hold back information here this was how the ropes were tied to the
bed okay so they weren't just tied to the bed post and if you read the newspaper articles that's the way that
they make it sound and I think the sheriff's department did that on purpose the way that they were actually tied to
the bed post is that they were looped around the bed post and then brought down and tied to the bed frame itself
another thing was that Mrs pounds her clothing had been cut off of her and was found on the floor in the bedroom that
was not released to the public the other thing was the secret location of the gun
now we we said that several sources stated that where they found the gun was hold back information in fact what was
hold back information was where the gun was hidden inside the home before the killer be it Wayne Nance be it Harvey
pounds or whomever got it before using it to kill Donna pounds this is very interesting because
what this does I think really has to shrink your suspect pull greatly the gun was hidden inside of you know how
sometimes people will fashion a piece of furniture that it has like a secret compartment right that's where this gun
was kept the problem with that is there was only about a list of six or seven people according to everyone interviewed
in the family that knew that that gun was in that secret compartment in a piece of furniture inside the master
bedroom of the home of course everyone in the family knew that it was in this location right outside of that it sounds
like only a couple people but on that list that very short list oddly enough Wayne
Nance knew where that gun was this is according to the pound son Kenny who is off at the
Army they tell him there's been an accident at home you need to get home that's all we can tell you I guess his
father Harvey pounds had ongoing heart issues and so his immediate thought was oh my God my my father's died of a heart
attack he gets home to find out no it's his mother it's not been an accident she
was murdered inside the home when he's interviewed he tells the detectives that me and my friend Wayne Nance who lives
you know nearby almost seen in their backyard yes but again I don't think that this was known to any of the pounds
family right right that's only known to law enforcement correct cuz they don't know where they're going with this
they're still really looking at Harvey pounds they find out that this gun is in some kind of secret location this this
hidey hole that's been constructed into a piece of furniture and they're going well it's got to be Harvey no Kenny
tells them not only did I show Wayne at one time when we were kids where this gun
was being curious kids we took it out of that compartment and we actually fired the gun on one
occasion so this is quite interesting now let's talk about Wayne nansy a little bit more as said he's a senior at
high school he lives with his family nearby and his father George is an interesting guy he's as far as their
family goes it seems like the general consensus is that these are pretty normal regular people with the exception
of Wayne he kind of stands out at school he's kind of the odd kid and that's because of his own actions and his own
words his as far as his family goes his father at one point and I don't know I couldn't find a year for when this
happened but it seems that at some point his father was involved in some type of
robbery which led to him serving some time in prison and I think that this actually went down when Wayne was an
adult another thing that went down when Wayne was an adult was his mother for the life of me I can't figure out 100%
why they've listed it this way she died when he was a young adult and they listed her death as a
suicide yet we have several people that were with her the night of her death that says that they were she worked at
this place called the cabin which was known as a quote unquote Cowboy Bar and I guess the way that they ran the place
was that the employees were allowed to drink there whether they were working or not she was working that night and got
pretty drunk during the of her shift hopped in the vehicle and decided to drive off she smashes the vehicle head
on into a tree for whatever reason they listed her death as a suicide it seems to me like she was a drunk driver and
made some very very dangerous and poor decisions that night and all of that stuff happens when Wayne is older but
what's going on right now is we have this information that the gun was located in a secret compartment inside
some furniture and that Kenny is telling police Wayne Nance knew about that gun and had fired it before so the one half
of the room that likes Wayne Nance for the Donna pounds murder they're screaming at the top of the mountain
let's go get this kid they get a search warrant they go to Wayne's house they start talking to him asking him
questions they ask his mother questions they search his room and they find a couple of things that are of
interest to them one they find this black bag and inside the black bag they find a couple 22 caliber bullets the
same caliber that was used to kill Donna pounds if these are related to that murder it means Wayne either brought his
own 22 caliber bullets to the crime scene with him and left with a few of them still or took some with him as some
kind of trophy yeah like a souvenir right so again it doesn't directly tie him to the murder but it's of
Interest then they find a piece of clothing that has it appears to have some kind of blood stain on it now this
piece of clothing has been washed at least one or two times before or since the murder is it clothing of his it's
his clothing correct found in his room and it's been washed but they believe that at one time it had wet blood on
this clothing they cannot confirm if it is human blood they can't confirm that it's
Donna pound's blood but again this is of interest to them they collect the this article of clothing they collect the
bullets that they found they take this back to the sheriff and now here's where we are the public is pressuring the
sheriff's department to make an arrest charge someone with Donna pound's murder the sheriff and this was a very
rare thing at the time goes to the prosecutor and they agree what they're going to do is they're going to get
together a grand jury and they're going to present everything that the police have to the grand jury this means
everything that they have against Wayne Nance but also everything that they have
against Harvey pounds the grand jury is then going to decide one we have enough evidence to indict someone and two who
do we indict they review all of this evidence all of the information provided to them
and at the end of the day at the end of their sessions the grand jury decides there's not enough evidence to indict
anyone we can't charge Wayne Nance we cannot charge Harvey pounds and later we would have the prosecutor and the
sheriff now mind you the public they don't know that these are the two suspects that the grand jury was looking
at this is all very silent to the public closed door stuff but we have the prosecutor and the
sheriff who are later on record saying that they were both relieved because neither of them thought that they had
enough evidence to convict either individual and neither of them were certain who was
guilty of this crime if if if either of them were guilty in fact yeah and you don't want to take them to try and lose
the trial and then basically lose everything if you find out later that that's your guy if you would have just
been able to get more evidence against them so what we have here Captain is the Donna pounds case it's going to go cold
after this grand jury decides that there's no evidence to indict anyone they don't really have any leads
on the Siobhan mcginness case and as far as the burnart case that took place 5 hours away in Billings Montana 6 months
earlier they don't seem to have any leads in that one either life goes on Harvey pounds and his children they have
to go on with their lives they have to try to pick up the pieces and have some kind of family life Wayne Nance
graduates from high school and he joins the United States Navy that same year a lot of people wonder was he out
there trying to serve his country or was this just a really good way to get out of town yeah well we've seen well I also
wonder because we have a lot of serial killers that enter the armed forces and is it a way
for them to to kill people right yeah because you are always at the risk of going off to war and a lot of people do
not ever want to face to be put in a situation where they have to to kill someone or def defend themselves mhm
where somebody that is really into that kind of stuff might look for ways to to put themselves in that type of position
and joining the Armed Forces allows that right on December 13th 1985 this is 11 years after the unsolved
murders of Donna pounds and Siobhan mcin A call came into the sheriff's department this is in ravali County
Montana so if you were to look at a map this is the county next to the county where they found Siobhan mcguinness's
dead body and where Donna pounds was killed a call comes into the sheriff's department and this call was serious
simple and to the point the caller was a male and said in a Stern voice I'm at gave an address and said we have two
Dead adults and three kids here that are still alive get here now when the police
show up they're arriving to a fire to a house fire when they get inside and they put
out the Flames this was not a very impressive fire it looked like someone had attempted to burn down the entire
house what they found was kind of smoldering furniture that was on the ground level of the home
causing a lot of smoke not much fire the fire department puts out this fire they
when they arrive they have three children who have been removed from the home they're out in the front yard it's
like 6° outside but the male caller who found the house on fire who discovered this
and called the police he brought the kids outside he said we have two Dead adults and three kids that are still
alive get get here now the kids were all passed out practically komos from a lot
of smoke inhalation what the police find inside is we find the husband and father who's
been killed and he is on the ground level of the house and then upstairs in one of the bedrooms this is actually one
of the children's bedrooms they find the adult female the wife and mother of the
three kids the home belonged to Michael and Teresa Shook and their three kids their
children's ages are two four and seven they had two little boys and the baby is a girl what they were able to
determine was that at some point someone had come into the home tied up the husband and stabbed him to death and
left him for dead in a room on the ground level mhm upstairs in the baby's room the wife and Mother Teresa was
sexually assaulted tied up and stabbed to death in the baby's room left for dead whoever killed them didn't harm the
children other than set the fire and leave them to die in the house fire thank God this guy shows up and
calls in for help right or the fact that he went in and got the children out yeah
so who is this guy this guy is a guy named Greg Lakes and he had every reason to be at the
Shooks house that morning his son was a babysitter for the shook children he was
there to drop his son off to babysit the kids that day he shows up he said that he didn't he was unaware that there was
any type of fire or anything going on when they first showed up they went up and knocked on the door several times
nobody answered so I guess they even like drove off and got coffee or some type of breakfast and then decided to
come back they just thought maybe the family wasn't up and ready yet and when they come back there's
still no answer he found this to be weird so he's like I'm going to go around and check a side door checks a
side door it's unlocked he goes in and he finds the place is covered in Smoke the three children thank God they
survive this whole ordeal and they were in the hospital for days because of the smoke
correct police question the children as they come to you know once they start getting it back together here they
question the children what they learn is that the seven-year-old who they were hoping to
get some information from as he's the oldest of the three kids he knew nothing about this attack what he said was that
he had gone to bed after the family had dinner that night and next thing he knew he woke up in the
middle of the night his younger brother his name is Luke Luke is the four-year-old woke his older brother up
went into his room woke him up and told him that the house was on fire they couldn't go downstairs because that's
where the Flames were they couldn't get out of any of the windows the older boy tried some of some of the windows in the
upstairs and he remembered from what he learned in school that smoke Rises they wanted to be away from the smoke so they
laid down on the ground on the floor of their bedroom and then fell asleep next thing
he knows he's waking up and he's in the hospital the 2-year-old they're not going to get any information from the
2-year-old she's very much still a baby at this point so now we have the four-year-old the middle child his name
is Luke and he's got some really interesting stuff to tell the police he tells the police that he was the one
that answered the door when the man came to the door that ended up killing his parents Luke says that after the family
had dinner his mom and dad are busy cleaning up dinner his older brother's already gone off to his bedroom mhm Luke
hears a knock at the door he goes and answers the door and the man just walks right into the home that's why children
shouldn't answer the door yeah this man doesn't introduce himself he doesn't ask
for anyone he just pushes his way into the home the man then announces that he is
Conan the Barbarian okay yeah this is weird for police mind you they're interviewing a
four-year-old so they don't really know what to do with this Conan the Barbarian
information yeah is he telling the truth or is he just being a four-year-old and
doesn't really understand the question he's trying to be helpful but he doesn't know any
better he said that he saw the Man attack his father father and then the boy decided to run and hide in his room
next thing he knows he said after a good deal of time he sees the man kind of piling up
Furniture in the main room at the bottom of the stairs and he sees the man lighting the fire to where he gets
scared again and hides in his bedroom some a little longer and eventually the smoke causes him to go wake up his older
brother that's about as much information as can get from Luke he's going to really be the only living witness
there's three living children but he's the only one that seems to have witnessed anything police really want to
know two things one has Luke ever seen this man before and two what is the guy's name we know it's not Conan the
Barbarian Luke says that he has seen the man before but he can't remember where or
when and when asked what the name what the man's name was he tries to provide them with some type of answer but they
they don't know what it is that he's saying like whatever he's saying doesn't seem to make sense to them it seems like
they need to ask him easier questions is he tall short is he old young right and
they may have I don't know if they if they did or not I'm sure that they probably did you're going to ask for
some pretty basic identifiers of this person there was some hold back information in this case
as well and there often is most of these cases have hold back information the hold back information in this case was
that the both of the Shooks Michael and Teresa were tied up before being killed that was not released to the public the
other item was that Mrs shook was shot once in the leg this gunshot obviously was not what killed her it was the stab
wounds that killed her but she was shot in the leg and this was not released to the public mhm the interesting thing
about this hold back information here is we have those cases from 11 years earlier but they're in a different
jurisdiction they're in the jurisdiction the county to the north of where this double homicide took place the sheriff
there still very much had on his mind the murder of Donna pounds now a cold case in his
jurisdiction he reviewed what they put in the papers about the Shooks murder right but that holdback information
might have been what would tie these two together because he still very much had
on his mind the ropes that were found tied to the bed post and then down to the bed frame MH in the pounds home he
knew that a gun was used in the pounds murder He was unaware that there were bindings as well as a gunshot in the
shook murder where this sits Captain is unfortunately the shook murder starts to go cold as well and the
people of that County were an uproar they were calling for the sheriff for his job they wanted this thing solved
who could go into someone's home murder the parents leave the children to die there and set the house on fire they
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[Music] Freedom all right we're back you filthy True Crime animals Cheers Cheers tall
hands in the air cheers one more time for the people in the back and when we say people in the back in the garage we
mean that's third row people in the cheap seats third row is the is the last row we have we only have three rows so
here we go Captain we have a desperate sheriff who's looking for answers in this case that is very quickly going
cold a double homicide in his County he's desperate looking for answers anywhere that he can find them and we
have a psychic that I'm not certain if he reached out to the psychic or if the psychic reached out to him and sometimes
law enforcement does that to get new leads or possible tips or anything one detective that we spoke to said that he
would do that just for some outside of the box thinking was there some possibility or theory that we've not
considered MH not that they're going to put any weight into the psychic's Visions or thoughts or whatever but
maybe it's just some kind of theory that we've not thought of yet regardless of how this interaction comes about the
psychic tells the sheriff three very interesting things one that the killer has some type of injury to his body and
I believe that they said like the right side of his body maybe his leg or his hip testicle that's about as much as
they could provide on that first little detail the second thing was that the perpetrator was in woodworking or in the
furniture business and so some form or fashion the third and this is the one that really seemed to bother the sheriff
was the psychic told Sheriff Dy that he would have to wait until September to solve the case of course D wants to know
why the psychic is unable to provide that information right so then the psychic has to go to another psychic
friend to figure out why well they have a whole network right for Psychic Network that's right
all right Captain this takes us to September 3rd of 1986 what we have here is late on
September 3rd we have a married couple who is returning to their home they get to their house and they
see a vehicle parked in their yard mhm well the husband is quite upset about this nobody likes it when somebody parks
on your property that's what the streets and roads are for he tells his wife you
go ahead and go inside I'm going to go over and check out this vehicle he goes over to the vehicle and inside he sees a
man who appears to be sleeping inside the truck he goes in and he tells his wife no big deal looks like somebody had
way too much to drink and decided our property will be a good place for them to sleep it off right they're in the
home for a little while he has some things outside on his property I think like a boat and a shed some things that
are of concern to him that he's always voiced to his wife that you know anybody could easily steal my boat if they if
they're on the property or they could get access to the shed so now he's starting to second guess this whole man
outside sleeping thing and they have a re relatively big property too I feel like I would call the cops if I since I
don't know the individual yeah well that's his intent he tells his wife he's like I'm going to go outside and I'm
going to do two things I'm going to check on the boat and then I'm going to go over and I'm going to get the license
plate number off of this truck and I'm going to come inside and I'm going to call the sheriff and say hey there's
some dude in his truck on my property could you come and wake him up that's not what I'm doing I'm going outside I'm
getting his information and then I'm whooping his ass he goes outside and now the truck is
gone that seems like the result that you want yes so now now the husband is outside checking on all of his property
checking the shed checking the boat so on and so forth and he thinks that he sees someone in the bushes up near the
house he says hey who who is this who are you what's going on and a man comes out of the bushes and
says hey it's Wayne from work okay so this guy's name is Doug Wells he's the homeowner his wife is
Chris Wells Doug does not work with Wayne he Doug is a gunsmith he purchases and repairs guns
sells them he's known throughout that area for doing so he's pretty successful at doing this Wayne from work is Wayne
from his wife's work they work together at a furniture store Chris is the manager there she's the head
honcho Wayne works in the warehouse and he's also one of their best delivery guys delivering
Furniture Doug knows Wayne a little bit but he says had this guy not said Wayne from work I wouldn't have put together
who it was so he hears it's hey it's Wayne from work Doug notices that it's Wayne from
his wife's work he's like what are you doing here what are you doing on my property why are you up by my house yeah
I'm going to whoop your ass Wayne says I was driving by and I thought I saw somebody creeping around on your
property so I stopped to check it out Doug is not sure what to make of this mind you he just saw someone in a
truck and he saw the person in the truck he's not yet put it together 100% that the person in the truck could have been
Wayne Right Wayne tells him let's go inside we should call the sheriff and get somebody
out here to take a look at this Doug was planning on doing that anyway right Doug
says as soon as he turns his back Wayne must have struck him over the head with something knocks him to the
ground he takes Doug inside now mind you by this point Chris she's been inside for a little bit of time now she's in
the bedroom getting ready for bed late at night she hears the commotion she comes running into the room she
recognizes Wayne immediately obviously they've worked together for years Wayne what are you doing she says
he says look I'm in some trouble I've done something I just need some money and I'm
going to get out of town you'll never see me again I know you have keys to the store I know you have access to the safe
and I know how much money is in the building you're going to give me access to that money I want the money and I'll
be out of here Chris has no idea what Wayne's talking about she has no idea what it is
that he could have done has no idea why he would need to flee the area but she does have access to a safe she has
access to the work the work safe she has access to the money and he's right Wayne
is right there was a decent sizable amount of money at the furniture store I'm just saying if you're working with
this guy and he's coming at you and he says oh well you have a key to safe but you don't and you don't have access for
the money then now we got even a even bigger problem because this guy's a psycho the way that Wayne explains it to
both Doug and Chris is that he just needs to get these keys he might steal their vehicle and he's going to be out
of here he tells them that he's going to need to tie both of them up and he tells
them that he's going to tie them up in different locations of the house because if he ties them up in the same room that
they're more likely to get free or help one another and get free and he needs some time he says once I get to where
I'm going I will call someone and send them to your house and they will you know cut you free this is 86 right this
is September of 1986 okay I let's just point this out that this was done before we've seen
this in several cases two that immediately come to mind are BTK and zodiac right and both of these
cases we've seen where the perpetrator says I'm just going to get some money I just need to steal your car I'm going to
tie you up to buy some time yeah I just need to tie you up so then I can take her to another room to to try to rape
her well we hear so often Captain don't ever get in the car whatever you do whatever they promise you whatever they
threaten you with don't get in in the car don't get in the car or the van now we're starting to learn don't let them
tie you up no we should have already known that just like when gasy wants to do that little handcuff trick hey I got
the handcuffs now you try it on a [ __ ] you [ __ ] you I'm not trying on any handcuffs you want to tie me up suck it
I am not letting you tie me up it's difficult because look these victim not difficult kill me because you're not
tying me up well it's not difficult for you but it's difficult for the victims in these situations because they've seen
and heard and read of times where people are just tied up and left and so in in this state they they may believe it they
just want it to be over with yeah but knowing what we know now what what would you recommend well I
just said what I would recommend don't let them tie you up no tying up what we have here is Nance decides
that he is going to tie dug up downstairs in the basement he takes Chris down there with them and has Chris
tie dug up then he takes Chris upstairs to I I believe it's a two-story home and takes her to the the
upstairs and he's going to tie her up upstairs now meanwhile what we have going on here is we have Doug who's
trying to free himself he's already been hit over the head a couple of times he's suffering pretty bad he's
trying to get free he has no idea what's going on upstairs but he can still hear
and he thinks that Wayne Nance is still in the house this guy said he's going to
leave why is he not in a hurry to leave Wayne must have heard some commotion because he decides to come
back downstairs and he checks on Doug again but this time he picks up a knife and he sticks it into the the man's
chest Jesus Doug said that he could feel the knife go right into his chest and puncture his lung and he could hear the
air come out of his chest that was escaping his lung at this point Doug is pretty
certain that he blacks out he says he comes to a few minutes later at this point a couple things have
changed one he noticed that Wayne when he went back upstairs this time Wayne did not close the basement
door Doug thinks that this means that Wayne thinks that Doug is dead right Doug is able to free his hands and then
he reaches down and he unties his legs we already said that Doug is a gunsmith his shop is the basement of his
home don't bring a knife to a gunfight well I guess that's that's a a detail that I failed to point out Wayne has a
gun oh Doug knows this that's part of the reason that the two of them were tied up in separate locations however
we're talking about handing out advice don't get in the car don't let them tie you up maybe don't break into a gunsmith
home or try to home invasion at a gunsmith home yeah and look I know that it's not as simple as just nope you're
not going to tie me up especially when somebody has a knife or have they they have a gun right but it's like if if
they shoot you dead right then like it's probably going to in pretty quickly if they tie you up they have the ability to
torture you or to T torture your loved ones all right I don't want anybody getting any advice from our show I don't
want somebody coming at us going well let's just move on let's March forward well just as a
reminder there's beards are flowing so don't listen to anything we're saying we're just two idiots in a garage yes
they won't allow us to leave mhm we're trapped Doug comes to and he picks up one of the guns that he's been working
on and listen to How smart this guy is he says to himself I only have seconds Doug is an avid
Hunter unfortunately he's shot animals in the chest while out hunting he knows that sometimes a deer might run around
for 20 30 seconds afterwards he tells himself from that experience I've got about 30 seconds and I'm going to die
because this guy stabbed me in the chest he decides he's only got enough time for one bullet in this gun he's got
to load the gun and then go find Wayne and he tells himself I got 30 seconds until I die and I'm taking this guy with
me he puts one bullet in the gun and he decides that whatever's going on upstairs he does not have the strength
or the vision because mind you he's in very bad shape he's close to dying MH to shoot at Wayne Nance in the same room as
his wife as he will very likely shoot her on accident he decides he's going to make some noise and make Wayne come to
him yeah he makes a little bit of noise he hears the basement door open and as soon as he spotted Wayne long enough to
make sure that it is Wayne and not his wife Chris he pulls the trigger he puts one in Wayne's
chest he goes up the stairs to where Wayne is lying Wayne starts to get up Doug takes
this gun and beats the hell out of Wayne Nance he keeps hitting him over and over
and over again in the head and neck area kick his ass see driving him to the ground driving him to the ground Wayne
keeps trying to get up driving him to the ground eventually Wayne stops moving and now we have Doug and Chris
who call the sheriff's department Sheriff come out they figure out what's going on the the call is interesting in
itself too because Doug is in very bad shape his estimate of I've got about 30 seconds well he wasn't too far off from
that because it was Chris that called the police she says I need an ambulance here now my husband is dying a man
attacked my husband and he's dying right well of course they want to know how many squad cars and how many ambulance
to send to the place and they want to know what's going on what they're walking into they say to Chris what's
going on with the other guy what's going on with the attacker Chris says I don't
care get here and save my husband yeah well to put a long story short there captain or to shorten my long
story M Wayne Nance dies and I've read a few different versions of this I don't know which to be true I think he
probably died on the way to the hospital some of the short versions say he died at the hospital some say he was dead
upon arrival regardless we know the result Wayne Nance attempted to do something very horrible to these people
he was attempting to rape Chris Wells steal some things from the home and kill both of them yeah he's probably going to
light him on fire he was unsuccessful thankfully in doing so yeah and before he died he looked up at the sky and he
put his hands up and said I am Conan the Barbarian well the thing that was weird
here is we have the sheriff's department that they have known all of this time we're talking this is like 12 years
later they still have the Donna pounds murder on their minds right the sheriff the head honcho in charge he knows that
Wayne Nance was one of two prime suspects in Donna pound's murder they being law enforcement were
on record when they were interviewed by the newspaper the very next morning about you know what happened
last night these two people were attacked inside their home the this man attempted to kill both of them the
husband and wife managed to get free and kill the perpetrator law enforcement said to the
newspapers that was like Christmas morning for us this is one of those times that the good guys won yeah the
good guys won and now were they able to to connect him more to the pounds case that's very interesting as said he was
one of two prime suspects in that case so much so that they took that evidence against Wayne Nance to the grand jury
that decided not to indict right what's really interesting was the shook murder case Michael and Teresa the one where
the house was set on fire and the three kids survived what we have going on now this
is 10 months later after their murder that case was starting to go cold police had no leads not much in the way of
evidence either in that case they had this story from the four-year-old who survived who couldn't really tell them
anything other than the man pushed himself into the house and said he was Conan the
Barbarian we get a phone call to the Sheriff's Department from the grandparents the grandparents are now
the the surviving children live with the grandparents the grandfather he heard the news about the
attack against the wellses and how this guy worked at a furniture store worked for Chris they
both worked at the furniture store that he tried to kill this couple MH the grandfather remembers the Shooks
purchased Furniture shortly before they were killed wow and in fact he helped them pay for it so he knew where it was
purchased from it was purchased from the same furniture store that Chris worked at that Wayne Nance worked at and it was
later determined that Wayne Nance was in fact the delivery driver of that furniture that's where that little boy
Luke had seen the man before but couldn't place the when or where or why police did a follow-up investigation
ation because now we have a dead suspect a guy who has been killed in the commission of trying to commit further
murder he's a suspect in several Murders At this point they search his home where
he was still living with his father at this point his mother's already passed away from that car accident that we
talked about earlier they find stolen items from the shook family home in Wayne Nance's room
and these were items that were pretty much oneof a kind pretty rare items yeah these weren't just common household
goods got him they were able to find things from Donna pound's home inside his room as well right so what Doug and
Chris did not only did they save their own lives they probably saved future lives of this serial killer who was
going about his killing business undetected but they also helped to solve the shook murder case double homicide
and the now very cold Donna pounds case all right but what about the other cases
that you have talked about well it's interesting here Captain because there was a lot of thought put into the
possibilities with Wayne Nance unfortunately we have a dead suspect in these other cases and we've seen this so
many times these serial killers they are a weird breed where we get them we lock them up
and sometimes they spill their guts and they sing like a bird and they tell us all kinds of stuff they tell us all
kinds of stories some of them true some of them false they claim numbers that they have not achieved as far as killing
goes they other times they shut down and don't say that they don't admit to anything with this case we're left to
speculate and our friends out in Quantico the FBI profilers they were very interested in the possibilities of
Wayne Nance mm they had speculated that he probably killed 5-year-old Shon mcginness and there were several
thoughts put into this Theory one that she was an easy vulnerable victim that it was part of his process of becoming
the serial killer she would have been unfortunately a lowrisk victim for someone like Nance who wanted to try his
hand at killing for several reasons one she's very young she likely didn't know Wayne Nance and if he attempted to do
anything she wouldn't be able to identify him if she survived also she's only five so she doesn't put up much of
a fight there's the another theory involving the possibility of Wayne Nance killing Siobhan
mcginness and the thought was that maybe he was into killing kids and that his Target two months later was not Donna
pounds but he had been watching the house and maybe the 12-year-old daughter Kathy was his actual
Target but Donna pounds came home before Kathy did and he decided to attack and kill her the FBI have talked about this
quite a bit and Roy Hazelwood who I'm a big fan of he's written several very good books he put forth a couple of
theories about Wayne Nance's potential involvement in the Siobhan mcginness case however in
2008 we find out through DNA analysis found on Siobhan mcginness that Wayne Nance is not responsible for her murder
so it looks like Donna pounds was in fact his Target on that day yeah it seems like part of his sexual fantasy
was a individual that he knew that possibly was maybe a little bit older than he was or somebody in authority
figure yeah it appears that he became infatuated with these women with these three targets MH now he's tied to
several other cases and we did discuss the possibility that the unknown killer at the time back in 7 for might have
been responsible for the murder of Clifford and Linda barnhard that took place in Billings Montana 5 hours
away very weird here Captain it was just last year that they were able to find the killer of the barnarts all of these
years later in 2019 authorities identified the killer of of the barnarts as Cecil Stan
Caldwell he was a co-worker of Linda barnhart's who died in 2003 at the age of 59 Cardwell had no
arrest record it turns out that it looks like Cecil Stan Caldwell was the unknown
dinner guest for that night at the barnhard house and what about these other Jane Do's yeah in the trailer we
discussed two Jane does we talked about Christy Crystal Creek and another Jane Doe that was named Debbie Deer Creek
well in the course of about 5 years from 1980 to 1985 there were three unidentified women found close to the
city of Missoula one found in 1980 one in 84 one in 85 all of these victims were determined
to be murdered they were unidentified Remains the first victim was found in January of 1980 and she was dubbed Betty
Beaver taale eventually she was identified but they've not been able to determine who killed her or put her in
that location a second body was found in 1984 and she was the one that they labeled as Debbie Deer Creek the third
body was that of Christy Crystal Creek found in 1985 it took many many years Captain but
they were able to identify Debbie Deer Creek as being Sherry Bachman she was about 16 years old when
she ran away from home and it's believed that she hitchhiked her way into the area where she falls into our case is
there was this mysterious girl that was not from the area way back when living with Wayne Nance for a brief period of
time going by the name of Robin after this unidentified woman was identified as Sher Bachman and pictures
were released to the public featuring her sitting next to Wayne Nance many people came forward and said
hey we know this girl that was named Robin that was living with Wayne for several weeks and then all of a sudden
she was gone one day and when asked what happened to your girlfriend Robin who you seem so serious with Wayne had a
different story for each person that asked him that question what happened to Robin where'd she go did you guys break
up he had a different story for each one so Wayne Nance is pretty firmly believed
to be responsible for the death of Sher Bachman once named Debbie Deer Creek where our case stands today is that we
still need to know the identity of Christy Crystal Creek she was found in Missoula Montana she was shot to death
she was found on September 9th 1985 anyone with any additional information regarding the identity of
this person or to request additional information please contact the Missoula County Sheriff's Office at 406 258
3348 or the FBI violent criminal apprehension program at 8634 [Music] 497 I want to thank everybody so much
for sharing on social media Colonel do we have any recommended reading for this week yes we do Captain this week we are
recommending to kill and kill Again by John coulston to kill and kill again reveals the disturbing compulsions of a
Charming serial killer who fooled nearly everyone he knew check out that great title and many others at true Crim
garage.com and click on the recommended page and I recommend that you join us back here in the garage next week until
then be good be kind and don't live [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
thought it was an Eco move few your worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic
must be a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service
instantly and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than
just a list get started at and . that's ngi or download the app today

The Missoula Mauler /// Part 2 /// 432

Part 2 of 2

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Two murders take place in Missoula Montana in early 1974. Both cases are mysterious and the public starts to wonder are these murders connected? In the mid-80’s a married Missoula couple is murdered inside their home. The killer attempted to burn the house down with the victim’s children still inside. Why is this killer terrorizing the people of Missoula Montana and will he ever be caught?

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Brief Summary

Wayne Nance's murders connect to cold cases, revealing chilling details about his crimes.

Key points

Quality Sleep with Ashley. Ashley offers top mattress brands at winning prices, financing options available.
True Crime Garage Introduction. Join hosts Nick and the captain as they dive into true crime stories.
Tragic Fire Incident. A call leads police to a house fire where two adults are found dead.
Desperate Sheriff Seeks Answers. A sheriff grapples with a cold double homicide case, desperate for leads.
Wayne's Desperate Plea. Wayne confronts Chris and Doug, demanding money and threatening violence.
Doug's Fight for Survival. After being stabbed, Doug fights back against his attacker, Wayne.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is very interesting because...

Discussing the hidden gun's location

5:40WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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