Serial Confessor /// Part 1 /// 413 | Forensic Files

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true [Music] in his best fact crime Edgar award nominated book legendary FBI profiler
Roy Hazelwood writes the impulsive offender is not an intelligent criminal he is apt to be dull-witted and foolish
and is least successful at evading identif ification and apprehension as the term impulsive suggests he lacks
discipline and self-control he makes poor decisions and carries out his crimes in an unplanned
and unsophisticated manner about the only thing that the impulsive and ritualistic offenders
share in common is an underlining need for power feelings of anger or a combination of the two
the impulsive offender lacks Clarity and definition and so do his fantasies actually what goes on in his
mind probably does not rise to the level of a fullscale fantasy whereas a ritualistic offender
might paint his mental pictures with patience intelligence close attention to detail and a texture from a richly hued
pet the impulsive offender deals in stick figures his imaginings are simple and crude more like fragmented thoughts than
well-defined scripts the victim appears to him in primitive terms female available and
vulnerable she may be a stranger his wife or a girlfriend he is not a discriminating
criminal women to him serve a single function they are disposable vessels for gratification this one-dimensional
attitude toward the opposite sex ties in with his view of his role in the crime a
perspective of entitlement I want to do it so I will some of the killers and crimes we
will discuss this week are very interesting examples of the impulsive offender described by Mr
Hazelwood three of the murders we will discuss are prime examples of just that and from the beginning to the end of the
attack show the recklessness that is so characteristic of the impulsive sex offender one who randomly selects his
targets with no concern for potential risk and then impulsively seizes the chance to sexually assault an available
victim taking no precautions to protect his [Music] identity is [Music] true Kimberly niece was born August 2nd
1961 and Cody wyom in she will have a little sister named Pamela the family moved out to popper Montana when Kim was
just 4 years old popler is a very very small City in Roosevelt County it is not just BFE it is BFE surrounded by much
more BFE at the time of our case and still to this very day the population of popler is less than 1,000 people oddly
named as the popper tree is a fast growing tree and the City of popler hasn't grown at all popler is on the
southern border of the fort peek Indian Reservation the start of our story takes
us back to 1979 and at the very start of the summer of 1979 Kimberly niece was just 17 years
old a pretty and smart girl coming of age in a small town at poer high school Kim was a three-year ational Honor
Society member she played basketball and she was on the track team she received a
scholarship her brains and hard work made getting good grades easy and so with it came that scholarship after
graduating high school Kim planned to spend the summer working on her father's farm and hanging out with friends a few
more times before leaving her little town in the fall Kim was off to the big city of over 33,000 residents in
Missoula Montana Kim was enrolled to attend Autumn classes at the University of Montana now on the evening of Friday
June 15th Kimberly niece went on a date to the drive-in movie theater in popper with her boyfriend his name is Greg
norgard they went in norgard's car and he took her home afterward sometime around midnight or 12:30 a.m. Greg was
21 years old and Kimberly was 177 they had been going out for a while they had been seeing each other for about a year
they say they were going steady for about 6 months but at this time things were not really working out well between
the two of them they had a disagreement which in Greg's opinion was there was no
really resolve to this disagreement this all stems from Greg confronting Kim about her having spent the previous
evening hanging out with some other guy until the we hours of the morning yeah that normally never goes over in a
relationship you never want to hear that do you Captain hey by the way I was spining last night with another guy and
we had so much fun we hung out till about I think she said it was like 4 in the morning yeah Kim did not hide this
from Greg she was pretty upfront about it they did have this disagreement but according to Greg they decided they were
going to go on their date anyway and during the date they didn't really discuss this matter too much you could
cut the tension with a knife well you probably could and I think maybe part of the reason for not
discussing the the disagreement too much is either you got to move past it at some point
or you're going to the movies maybe you're really into the movie and you just you know you don't want to talk too
much during the movie I'm not sure what movie they saw that night Captain I do know that the movie Hair which is a
disgusting name for anything was a big deal at the time which would absolutely be dread to watch at least you're at a
drive-in so you can drink beer in your car and then Captain you'll like this the movie Rocky 2 came out that very day
so not certain what they saw but that's probably what they saw that's what I would have seen yeah now there are some
good sources out there for this case and some questionable ones as well we know that with most of these cases that we
cover I really like the stuff posted on a website called montanans for justice that is a fantastic way to do a deep
dive into this case if you want to do that on your own then we have a friend of our little garage show Mr Barney
Doyle Doyle knows this case quite well in fact it's the subject matter of a great chapter in his book titled
Reckless speculation about murder and I was also able to dig up some pretty good
newspaper articles from the Big Sky State and also from Louisiana which will play a factor into this whole case and
you'll see why in a little bit so so according to Greg and there is a good deal to to back up most of his story
Greg says he dropped Kimberly off at home and then he went to the American Legion bar he says he told her he was
going to the bar she asked him if he was mad at her he says that he told her no he said he saw Kim's pickup truck this
is actually her father's pickup truck that she used quite a bit right parked in front of her house when he dropped
her off he said he did not walk her to the door shortly after Greg leaves Kim she gets in this truck and she went out
driving Kim was out cruising popper that night and was seen by multiple other teenagers who were doing the same thing
M according to at least two witnesses Kim was parked at the gas station sometime before 1:00 a.m. she was alone
in her father's pickup truck one of those Witnesses saw the same pickup truck traveling west on Highway 2 at
about 1:00 a.m. or a little after but couldn't tell how many people were in this truck at the time but they knew
that it was Kimberly's truck well again this is 1979 right good old 1979 so you get home
if it's pretty late after the movie you're not going to be calling your friends because they probably have
curfews back in the day you'd have a curfew you'd tell your friends don't call my house after 9: makes my parents
upset so 17 years old you're looking for something to do the only way to do that
is to get in your car drive around drive past your friend's house try to find out
where where people are hanging out for my understanding captain and you know again this is a very small
town that there were a couple things that that were going on at the time it seems
to me like a lot of kids were out well past whatever their curfew would be set by their parents or by the town if the
town even had a curfew for for juveniles I don't know they probably didn't at that time yeah and it also seemed to me
like the American Legion bar was really a go-to spot if you were an adult M and during the summertime when these seniors
or keep in mind even though Kim is is just 17 she's already graduated mhm and she's working for her father so she
doesn't have a whole lot of obligations and responsibilities until she goes off to
college so a lot of these kids it seems like while their parents were out at the
American Legion bar till the we hours of the morning they were borrowing their parents' vehicles and they would hang
out and find places to hang out outside and a lot of them would go to there were
a couple different clicks even though this was a small town small community but it sounds like one Community would
one one click would hang out at one gas station kind of park and talk and then figure out places to go right and then
the other click hung out at the other gas station yeah when I was in high school a bunch of people would hang out
at a car wash and it was like nobody's washing their car that was just like the Meetup spot it was the parking lot
between the big car wash and the bowling alley yeah and there was yeah there was
a group that hung out there I didn't really care for that group so that was not a spot for me well the yeah the
group would change though but but also you worked at a pizza place and that was a go-to spot to that was one of the
Hangouts you just drive by to see see if somebody was there but also this is 19 again
1979 uh I'm guessing depending on what their laws were they would have been similar to what we had in Ohio which
would would have meant that you didn't have to be 21 to get to a bar you could have been younger because they had 32
beer at the time the drinking age would have been about 18 I believe possibly yeah I I don't know I'm not very
familiar with Montana at all other than I know it's very big and it takes a long
time to drive from one side of it to the other now at about 4:15 a.m. two Tribal
Police Officers observed a truck parked by the train bridge at the popler River West of town just off of Highway 2
spoiler alert this is the truck that Kim was driving it was a popular spot for teenagers to park and hang out so the
officers didn't really think much of it at that time right when the truck was still there at 700 a.m. that morning the
officers drove down to investigate this was now weird stuff for them the officers discovered blood and
hair in side of the truck next to both the driver's side and the passenger side of the pickup there were what they
called scuffle marks or believed to be scuffle marks where the dirt was kicked up approximately 10 ft from the
passenger side of the truck was what appeared to be a blood spot and I've seen pictures of the old crime
scene and it looked to me like this is a fairly significant blood spot it the word spot doesn't do it justice this
this was a big a big marking you could see it from uh photos that were even taking at some decent distance away
we're not going to have a extended cab or even like a quad cab cuz those just weren't that popular back in
79 and this could have been a bench seat as well which would make it easier I think to attack an an individual inside
the truck yeah this was a a smaller cab for any kind of pickup and as you pointed out the pickup trucks we have
today quite big in size this was not that this was not of that manner at all now there were drag marks leading away
from the truck these marks led the officers to the edge of the bank of the river I want to point this out here
these drag marks were so significant that they were they were blatantly obvious to these officers and so much so
that they were able to follow them like a trail of breadcrumbs all the way from the truck to the river this was not a
quick little walk from the truck to the river this was quite some distance do we
know how far I do I do and we'll get to that I don't I don't have that just quite yet there at the the edge of the
river the officers saw a body floating face up in the shallow water about 10 ft from the Lower River Bank this was the
badly beaten body of 17-year-old Kimberly niece now as Doyle explains in his book he
says popler is a bit of a jurisdictional anomaly we already have officers from the Tribal Police Department on the
scene but poer as we mentioned is in Roosevelt County so the Roosevelt County Sheriff's Office can investigate as well
the fort peek reservation is federal land and the Bureau of Indian Affairs investigates most crimes on the
reservations but the Federal Bureau of Investigation usually assist on anything as serious as
a murder that's what we have here every one of those agencies got called in for the niece murder but when
they're all there Captain it seemed like nobody really knew exactly who was in charge whose case was this consequently
the scene got trampled evidence was contaminated now at the scene officer found that Kimberly's driver side door
was open but the passenger door was locked there were no keys in the truck the gear shift was in park the radio was
on there were three gouge marks in the ceiling with hair hanging out of them and gouge marks on the steering wheel as
well officers found a 3-ft crescent-shaped semicircle of blood approximately 9 to 10 ft from the rear
of the truck tire but there was no blood trail from the pth passenger side of the
vehicle there were small spots of blood all around the exterior of the pickup well those markings on the ceiling that
what's that term called where you have like a hammer and you and somebody strikes down and then as they pull back
yeah you got to pull back up yeah and that it seems like that's how those markings would happen inside that truck
again small cab of of the truck there was a sweater which belonged to Kim and her purse on
the ground beside the passenger door there was a partial palm print in Blood on the passenger side of the door if
you've heard anything about this case if we would have titled this Kimberly niece
we'd have a whole different audience chiming in and and listening in for for this case this has been a very popular
case in that neck of the woods for a long time and this palm print has been the topic of much debate ever since this
murder took place so let's dive into this single piece of evidence this palm print often referred to as the
unidentified palm print is as famous as this case is I mean you can talk you can't talk about the murder
investigation of Kim n without discussing this palm print so with the FBI's help they worked very diligently
to identify the finger and palm print PRS found inside the truck cab and on the outside of the truck as well after
getting prints from the niece family there were four members in this family they were able to identify both finger
and palm prints found on the vehicle this is with the exception of two palm prints not one but two so it looks to me
Captain from the court documentation that I was able to find that these two palm prints they do not match each other
other and neither have been matched to anyone all of this time even 40 years later and and doesn't match her
boyfriend correct but even if it matched the boyfriend we could you you can kind
of we don't know when those Palm PRS were put there well they're in blood okay so okay so it's either during the
the course of killing this poor young woman or immediately afterward right when the while the blood is still wet
and then did we get the identification of who she was hanging out the night before before she went to the movies
with her boyfriend we have that information we have that and it comes from from the boyfriend and and we'll
see that in a bit but I wanted to make sure that we pointed out here that palm print doesn't match him as well it does
not match him and he was a suspect he was somebody that was looked at really good in this case and I wanted to point
out that we have two identif unidentified palm prints not just one you know the surface story tells you one
there's actually two and the other thing though I want to point out here too I don't think this paw print just because
it went it went unmatched to anybody potentially linked to this crime I don't think it actually clears anybody in my
opinion because as said right there's no nice way of saying it the blood was still wet it might not be very accurate
it may not have dried just as it was placed right on the truck and because it's distorted I'm sorry distorted it
may not match anyone now from the truck to the riverbed you had asked about this
Captain it was about 250 ft that's not that's not anywhere close and every bit of evidence we have suggests that every
bit of the attack took place up by the truck and how much did she weigh well she was a smaller person I believe she
was uh I would say about 100 to no more than 115 lbs okay that's not that heavy so you would
think individual if there's two individuals that's not really that hard to move a body even though it's 250 ft
but you have two individuals 115 lbs that's not a lot so uh the the the palm prints do you think that points to two
individuals or or one because again uh like you just said if there's Distortion in the print maybe
they're the same print but one is a little more distorted than the other the other thing that I wonder
about too is if the attack took place inside the truck and outside of the truck why did it go down that way did
she try to escape the truck or was she forced out of the truck either way one of the palm prints could belong to her
to the victim right and it's just distorted right and as you pointed out if they're distorted they could belong
to the same person to be honest with you I really don't know this this case is is
very interesting to me because there's a good deal of possibilities I believe when looking at this thing now as said
we got that distance from the truck to the riverbank 250 feet from there it was a steep 10- foot drop to the
river in addition to the drag marks investigators also found spots of blood and hair along that trail the drag Mark
Trail let's get into the autopsy Captain forensic pathologist Dr John faf conducted the autopsy because this case
has remained an ongoing story for so long some of the materials have found their way to the Public's reach I
reviewed the 22-page autopsy report put together by the good doctor on Columbus Hospital of Great Falls Montana
letterhead page one tells us a brief description of the injuries this poor young woman suffered there were multiple
blunt force impact injuries involving the head and neck these are extensive skull fractures with contusions and
lacerations to the brain multiple blunt force impact injuries involving the upper extremities mostly the hands so if
you're doing a little mental image in here what does that tell us these are defensive wounds so she was aware of the
attack she was attacked from the front and she's putting up her hands and arms attempting to defend
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to you Captain we are back to the Doom and Gloom that is the true crime world so Kimberly suffered a brutal beating
death there were dozens of blows to the head with damage to the forehead and the
right and left sides of the head Kim was dead before she was placed in the water
and there was no evidence of a sexual assault the pathologist determined that the injuries were caused by a weapon but
he could not initially determine what that weapon was he also noted that she was fully clothed when she was found
there was no evidence of her being choked violently during this attack and there are several pages of the autopsy
that are devoted to a hammer and crescent wrench diagrams so even though he could not
determine exactly what the weapon was it seems like he had a decent idea of what
it probably could have been the services for Kimberly were held on June 19th at the First Presbyterian Church in popper
Montana a dive team searched the river and discovered a discarded Hammer but the doctor examined this Hammer compared
it to the injuries and determined that the hammer was not used to kill Kimberly when the vehicle was returned
to her father he was asked to check for anything that might be missing from the truck Kimberly's father looked through a
toolbox in the back of the truck and determined that a 12-in metal crescent wrench was missing the doctor compared
that type of wrench to the injuries and determined that the wrench could have caused some but not all of Kimberly's
injury so now Captain we know that we have the use of at least two weapons in the commission of this homicide is that
what it really means though what that or does it just mean that the Crescent richen could be responsible for some but
that's just could yes that's what he says he says that the the crescent wrench could have caused some but not
all of the injuries to right what I'm saying is maybe there's a um instrument out there that would be able to cause
all of them that does not seem to be his findings I see what you're saying that that if they're saying this one doesn't
fit all of them right I I think what he's laying out for us here is that he believes at least two different types
different shapes of weapons were used during this attack yeah there's a lot of tools that have different
ends um and there's a lot of weapons there's a lot of a lot of things but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if
you're hitting somebody with possibly a hammer or a crowbar or something like that that you would then stop remove
that that item and and then pick up a a wrench in the in in the truck usually that does not occur you're correct
usually somebody starts the job and finishes the job with the same weapon that's in their hand we also most of us
have two arms and two hands um you could be armed with two different types of weapons the thing with the crescent
wrench that we have to keep in mind remember the bottom portion of a crescent wrench
you can move it you can maneuver it up and down so that's going to have a significantly different shape than some
other types of tools out there especially if if it is in fact you have that point now from where the the bottom
portion of the I don't you're getting you're getting me talking about parts of tools that I don't don't know the the
terminology for so but in regards to the the evidence that was collected again we have several agencies
that were at the scene no one knew who was in charge the result of this was evidence stored in different locations
by different agencies and over the years some of this would become lost contaminated and in some cases there's
speculation of even maybe stolen or destroyed purposely destroyed evidence well think about this it's a very small
town right yes yes this is it was actually larger in population than that it is now that's never a good sign if
you're in a town that the population you're losing people every year something's going on but this is like
the Connecting Point like you said we have all these different uh departments working this case everybody probably
knows everybody if you are not even the suspect but you are the person responsible for this and you start
hearing that different departments have evidence evidence wouldn't that be a lot
easier to try to contaminate anything that they have yeah yeah if you have if it's
accessible to you yes the left hand wouldn't know what the right hand was doing you're exactly right the
investigators found and photographed numerous shoe Impressions at the scene but this was done again after several
law enforcement agencies were at the scene and moving about and looking and trying to find evidence and figure out
what was going on so it's easy to believe that most of these shoe Impressions I believe captain that they
probably belong to law enforcement we saw this with the Nicole Brown Simpson case where there was multiple shoe
prints and they had to then go back and figure out which Sho prints were law enforcement and which one were which
ones were media and which ones were unidentified mhm it's never been determined in this case what shoe prints
belong to whom uh or shoe Impressions whatever you want to call it belong to who so what we also have are items that
were collected other items that may or may not be even part of the case or crime at all you know these would be
your typical items standard stuff like beer cans trash cigarette butts and and different types of debris again this was
a hangout spot at that time for teenagers and young adults so probably a good deal of beer drinking went on down
there well we also have the truck to the river that's our whole scene that's 250
ft that's a quite a bit of an area to to have you know debris in that you're not
going to know what what matches the crime scene or not what I think is pretty neat in this situation is that
the evidence at the crime scene really does tell the story the evidence shows us how this murder took place we don't
know exactly why Kim was in that location near the popper river by the old train bridge did she drive there by
herself or with someone did she was she intending to meet someone there did someone take her there against her will
that part we don't know but we know that she was there her truck was there this was the location that Kim had been
to before she had been to this location before that night so she was familiar with this area and so more likely she
probably went there either with someone or was meeting someone in my mind maybe even a group of people plus she's a
teenager and many times okay if she's going to meet some people there we do we have we don't have any evidence of that
we don't have any friends coming forward and saying that she was supposed to meet
us there again we don't have phone records of that I I don't think that's something
that we should assume I think one of the things that we do have evidence of was she was at the gas station by herself
that we have multiple eyewitnesses that saw her driving around that night by herself mhm it it's very
possible if this is a local hangout that you get one or two guys that that go to
that area and again like I said before you remember how it was on a Friday night if you didn't make plans or you
didn't hear about the party you drove around in a car and you went from house to house you know well let's go to this
buddy's house and see what's going on and you you might like run into their parents oh well he said he was going
over to this guy's house so you're like okay we'll head there and then once you get there they're like oh well they
actually took off and went down you know what I mean so so I I just it seems like she got in this argument with her
boyfriend and then he was like well I'm going to go to the bar and she she wasn't okay with just staying at
home so it looks like she was going around trying to figure out what to do and it's very possible that she could
have came up to that spot just to see if anybody was there that she knew and then
ran into trouble well that's why I say I think she either went there with somebody or with the intention of
meeting somebody whether that was a plan to meet someone or just her hoping that
other people were there there right right and I say that because thinking back to my youth you know we didn't we
weren't able to text people and go hey what are you doing tonight hey what are you doing tonight no you if you got off
work I remember plenty of times if I got off work at 11 12:00 at night if it was
a Friday Saturday I had three three or four spots that I knew I could do uh it take me five
minutes to drive by all three or four of these spots and I might find a handful of my buddies chilling at one of these
spots I mean finster's garage comes to mind right I mean that was was my go-to that's where I hope to find people but
regardless the the other thing that I do want to point out too though the reason
why I believe that though Captain is because I don't think if someone abducted her or took control of her in
her vehicle and decided that they were they had murder in mind or rape in mind this doesn't seem to me like an
ideal spot to go to again it's a known hangout you don't take somebody that you're planning to do something like
that to to that spot yeah again I'm going to disagree because well you people people could already be there or
somebody could happen upon you during the commission of your ATT attack you you know the area it's a small area it's
it's a town of 800 people but what we're not privy to is how long did people hang out at this
spot was it you could drive 15 minutes in any direction and be out in the middle of nowhere from poer Montana
right I understand that but what I'm saying is like the car wash for example that people hung out it you weren't
going to see people there at 12:00 or 1:00 you know what I mean like you'd see people from maybe at 9 people would be
starting to hang out maybe you'd see some people by 11 you're you're forgetting the statements of the police
officers that said they saw the truck at 4:00 a.m. thought nothing of it cuz they
knew teenagers hung out there it's one car I I don't know I I I just I think it's not a bad spot you're
20 you know you're 250 feet from uh a great spot to dump a body well regardless the the river which is going
to wash away tons of evidence regardless of our our thoughts and feelings what we do know is that
some of the attack took place in the truck some of the attack took place outside of the truck she was hit many
times with at least two hard objects used as Weapons she was dragged down to the River's Edge this over 200 ft away
there is about 10 or so feet of a steep embankment to the actual water someone pushed her over and she rolled down this
embankment her killer or Killers then went down the embankment and pushed Kim they had to physically push her into the
water she was found face up and she had mud on her from the embankment the keys to the truck were
not located at the scene even though they were found uh even though they found her purse M the Mur Mur weapons
were not found so we have two palm prints that don't match that kind of points in the direction of killers
instead of killer possible multiple instruments used as weapons that points towards
killers and not killer the fact that it's 250 fet yes she's not that heavy but it'd be a lot easier to move her
with two individuals MH like you said there's a steep embankment there's a lot that that
points to again I even think the attack inside the truck and outside the truck makes
sense like I'm going to get in and you're going to go around to the other side because this is also in the middle
of nowhere you think depending on how she was attacked if she was fighting back she has a lot of defensive wounds
that there would be a possibility that she should be able to get out and run or or do something a lot harder to get away
from two individuals um there's just a lot that points to to two instead of one it does
where my mind goes to though is if you got two full-size males as the attackers I I don't I don't understand
why the the drag marks I think you'd be able to move her without without that that much of a a trail yeah yeah I agree
so let's go back to Kim's boyfriend Greg did he really drop her off as said well
yes we we know this for several reasons first Kim took her father's truck and drove it into town this is isn't out of
character we have more than one person who says they saw Kim sitting alone in the truck parked at the gas station
investigators learned right away about some troubles between Greg and Kim as we pointed out the two they they lived just
a couple of houses away from each other now late on that afternoon of June 15th Greg says that he saw Kim arriving home
he spoke with her and she looked tired this is where he becomes aware of her hanging out with this other guy he says
hey why do you look so tired she says well I was out driving around till 4:30 in the morning the previous night with
another guy his name is Steve shagan Greg was in his words this is his exact words a little pissed about this
but they were going to stick to their plan and go out on the date as well as said before the date Greg went to the
store to buy some beer and this this is where you start getting that whole small town story that whole
small town mix going on when he's at the store buying beer he sees Steve's girlfriend and Greg decides to inform
Steve's girlfriend her name is Susie karna about what went down what a dick oh I don't mind doing that at all I mean
just I just think it's funny that he saw her and he went yeah I'm going to ruin her night well he probably doesn't trust
the Steve guy and wants her to know what what Steve's been up to as well well I know and I understand and I know that
he's just trying to inform her but it's just like he just ruined her night well that be it as it may that's what
happened they went to the movie theater the drive-in theater this was around 8:30 after the movie he says they drove
around for a little bit and then he took her home dropping her off somewhere between midnight and 12:30
a.m. he said he was going to to the bar now multiple Witnesses all said they saw
and interacted with Greg when he was at the legion Club bar that night right these Witnesses include but are not
limited to several members of Greg's family and some of Greg's friends but also Kim's parents as well he sees them
there and talks with them he told investigators that he leaves this bar around 1:30 a.m. and drove around town a
few times looking to see if Kim was out driving so this on the surface to me seemed a little weird why would he just
drive around town looking to see if Kim was out driving even I thought it was even a little weird even knowing that
she was out driving the night before he says this is because he just saw her parents at the bar and they've known
each other for a long time he knows that when her parents are out late at night that Kim would go out late at night so
he drives by her house after driving around he doesn't see her drives by her house and confirms that she was in fact
gone by seeing the truck was gone at this time yeah I mean let's be honest he's he's trying to catch her in the ACT
if she's driving around with another guy he then goes to a pay phone and decides
to call Kim's house Kim's mother now home answered the phone and Greg asked if Kim was home at that time Kim's
mother said that she was not she asked if Greg would drive around and look for Kim at about 1:45 a.m. Greg called
Catherine Mo from the same pay phone according to Greg he called cther after speaking to Kim's mother he called
because he wanted Catherine to come out that night and he does say to the officers he's upfront about this partly
he wanted to make Kim jealous if he happened to see Kim out driving around with somebody else he was hoping she
would see him out driving with somebody gotcha that's what you would say haha two can play at this game according to
Catherine Greg spoke very casually and never really said why he called she said that he did not sound drunk and he
didn't mention anything about Kim n during the call but when questioned by police Catherine also added that Greg
had never called her before and the call was not expected in fact Greg told Catherine that he got her number from
information there are some reports out there that say these two that they dated in the
past I'm not clear where anybody gets that information or where that came from I'm not saying that it's not true I'm
just saying that in statements that Catherine Mo and her mother and her mother two statements given to police
both of them said that Greg had never called this girl before and we see how much activities going on on the phone
between all these different people and different families you would think if they did in fact actually date
previously that there would have been some kind of phone calls Greg says that he drove around
until approximately 24 5:00 a.m. or maybe 3:00 a.m. he then gave up and went home and he went directly to bed he does
say that he never went by the train bridge that night now remember Steve and his girlfriend yeah Susie Kar they were
out together the night of June 15 and they remembered seeing Greg and Kim together early that evening which makes
sense Steve says later he saw Kimberly alone in her truck parked at at the gas station around 12:30 or 1:00 a.m. he
also says that he saw Greg's Mustang parked at the legion Club at about 1:30 a.m. I go through all of that just to
point out that a big chunk of Greg's story is matching up with not only what he's telling police but with what other
Witnesses are separately individually telling the police in their statements right and and who's the information
coming from I think that's important because because there's no need for Kim's parents to Aid him there's no need
for Steve to Aid his story yeah if anything those are the two suspects right off the bat right well Kim Kim's
parents are the ones are are the victims you know they have they have more skin in the game than anybody when it comes
to nailing somebody for the murder of their daughter right but what I'm saying with with Steve he's going hey I I saw
his car right I you know so I have uh I believe there's a lot of weight to those um uh eyewitness accounts yeah so
then here's where things take a a turn Okay because really what we have very early on is police looking at Greg
norgard as their number one suspect he's the boyfriend he was out late Kim's out
late out late as well they knew that there was a disagreement between the two they're looking at Greg but officers
canvas the homes in the the vicinity of the train bridge looking for potential Witnesses well they find a woman named
Roberta Clincher she tells deputies that she did not hear anything unusual that morning
but her teenage son Barry Beach had returned home early that morning and he was covered in
blood oh my God never that's not good either not good Bob uh the beach family does they lived near Kim n's family to
be honest with you most of the people in this story lived quite close to one another Barry said that the blood came
from punching his car in frustration after it got stuck in the sand at a swimming hole i' say let me see your
knuckles well here's where the story starts to get wonky the the investigation the case and everything I
mean we already have a contaminated crime scene and missing evidence and scattered evidence really amongst
different jurisdictional custody let going to get willly wonky right later this woman denies saying any of this and
what we will learn is that the deputy that took the statement or or spoke with this woman as he claims did not write
down any kind of report about this claim he says that he notified the sheriff immediately about this
information um and then they took it from there mhm Barry Beach well he's even tied more closely
to the victim he dated Kimberly's younger sister Pam Beach was 17 years old at the time of Kim's death and lived
a few hundred yards away from the train bridge he moved to Louisiana to live with his father and his stepmother not
too long after Kim's death he was police did speak with him a couple times before
he moved away right the initial suspects as you can see are the boyfriend Gary norgard and now Barry Beach both were
interviewed several times both denied any involvement and investigators never found any direct evidence linking either
to the crime at this stage of the investigation well did they check out Barry Beach's card to see if there was
any dings or dents that he put in when he punched the car well his statement about punching the car is backed up by
two witnesses and the way that this story works is that he I think he had a Ford Rancho Ranchero I'm trying to think
of I I wasn't born when these vehicles were around but it let's go with Rancho cuz it's just better Rancho I think is
actually what it's probably what it is but Rancho is great which was kind of cool Captain because it's a like an El
Camino it's a it's a car in the front and truck in the back business in front party in the back no it's I think that's
a party in the front and the work in the back if if it's a El Camino but it sounds like something you'd buy at Taco
Bell at at 3:00 in the morning give me a couple Ranchos I'm going to pick up three on my
way home from the garage today he says that him and two friends this is another couple went to go swimming and this is
uh Beach and this is where his his story and it's backed up by these two friends
the interesting thing though is he's dating the younger sister at the time Pam he asked her to go swimming she does
not go swimming that day he Parks his vehicle and anybody that knows like an El Camino or any types of these vehicle
they're they're not super high up off of the ground they're kind of low to the ground he Parks it and he got it stuck
in the sand and he's a young dude he doesn't know any better he's trying to get it
out of the sand and instead of using his brain tries to muscle It Out by vro back
and forth back and forth back and forth right and he ends up blowing out the transmission trying to get it out of the
sand in aggravation he gets pissed he yells at his friends he punches the vehicle he kicks it um just really just
you know dumb teenage stuff that you're like oh why did I really bloody myself hurt my hand and and ding up my vehicle
out of out of just being something that I could fix later Barry beach sounds like Barry [ __ ] well interestingly
enough there was also a rumor going around town that a group of teenage girls killed Kimberly nie the
investigation went nowhere productive for about a year and a half that makes sense though too cuz even if there was
two killers mhm but they're both female mhm drag marks right the defensive wounds I I would like to
know and they probably know as far as like the autopsy goes but like how how deep some of these wounds were and they
could normally they could now they can maybe they couldn't back then but they could tell you the force of the trauma
the pressure the pounds per pressure or whatever they usually can do that when somebody's only struck a couple of times
the problem when you have repeated blows over and over again and I apologize for
having to say this but there's no nice way of saying it the more you hit something over and over again in the
same spot the more right deeper the impact becomes and she was as said in the autopsy report hit dozens of times
in the head the as as we were talking about Captain the investigation really goes
nowhere for about a year and a half and then in a very weird turn of events this
is in February of 19 1981 Kim's great uncle he's a former state senator Stanley niece he's
murdered Stanley niece was 77 at the time and he had a lady friend that was renting a room from him the way that
this goes down is investigators found the bodies of three people at niece's home it was Stanley niece it was the
woman renting the room from him and her friend it appeared that the three were shot in the basement of the home while
watching TV and baking cookies this is a small town as we've pointed out time and
time again murder is not a common thing in this town at all right and the sheriff frustrated that they have no
answers in the Kim n case now her great uncle former state senator is killed he says to the paper
you know he's asked is there any chance that these crimes are related and he said look we don't have any information
or or evidence at this time mind you this is the day that they find the bodies that these two events are
connected but he says I hope that they are that might give us some type of lead in the kimn case that has now gone cold
yeah something that they're missing from the first case that only makes sense by connecting the murders right the
three of these victims were killed on February 25th this was determined by scientific evidence found at the crime
scene the bodies were not found until the following day on the 26th of February but it gets even weirder
Captain because in March in early March we have an arrest that is made in this case case of the three individuals
killed in the basement what they did was they linked the bullet casings and bullets that were
used to kill these three victims to spent shell casings that were found in the possession of an individual this
individual lived next door to Stanley nice they determined that these bullets were all fired from the same gun the
same gun that killed these three people at some point was in the possession of this person now this person who is he
well oddly enough his name is William norgard he's 26 years old at the time next door neighbor to Stanley niece
Kim's great uncle and he's the older brother of Kim's one-time boyfriend Greg norgard the strange thing about this as
much as you want to look into it and and go this has got to be connected these two things have all got to be connected
in somehow and some manner it actually appears that they may not have been unfortunately William norgard was a
very he had a he had a lot of problems and he struggled through a lot of issues for a long long time he spent the
majority of his life in and out of hospitals for being treated for physical ailments as well as psychiatric
treatment he was quite unstable and he there's some discrepancy either he was on new meds at the time or off of his
meds at the time of these of this triple homicide but what happened was we know that he was home there was something
going on with his medication at the time and he had developed this weird obsession with Stanley nice and the the
financial situ situation of his parents and it's believed that he thought or held Stanley ni somewhat
accountable for the financial problems that his parents were experiencing and decided to attack the
old man and gun down him as well as these two people as well we have William norgard who's sentenced to 300 years in
prison they have in Montana at the time anyway what is referred to as dangerous offender status and they gave that to
this young man who really was I've reviewed this pretty well because I thought there had to be some
kind of connection I even wondered if maybe if if William norgard was involved or responsible for the killing of
Kimberly niece but this this kid was I say kid he was 26 when he was convicted I'm talking
years and years of treatment documentation to show that he was treated for this for 12 13 years prior
to these homicides and unfortunately he very likely in my opinion should not have
been sentenced to prison for this he may not even understand what it is that he did or understand right from wrong and
this young man took his own life while he was in prison this was in December of [Music]
1984 [Music] thank you for listening thanks for telling a friend if you need more True
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here in the garage tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't [Music] l [Music]
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that

Serial Confessor /// Part 1 /// 413

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This week in the Garage… There is a murder of a young woman in Montana and the case goes cold. Then we have three killed in Louisiana. Police announce that the three murders are connected and then they get a confession to all four. Join us for a cold one and some cold case discussion that you will not forget. Beer of the Week - Imperial Confession by 1940’s Brewing CompanyGarage Grade - 4 out of 5 Bottle Caps

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Brief Summary

The episode details the murder of Kimberly Niece and the flawed investigation that followed, highlighting key suspects and forensic evidence.

Key points

The Legacy of Hard Work. Tommy Hall discusses taking over his father's restaurant, a legacy that lives on.
The Discovery of Kimberly's Body. Officers find the body of Kimberly niece floating in the river, leading to a complex investigation.
The Unidentified Palm Print. Two unidentified palm prints found at the crime scene remain unmatched even decades later.
Autopsy Findings. The autopsy revealed extensive injuries, including defensive wounds, indicating Kimberly was aware of the attack.
Brutal Attack Revealed. Kimberly suffered a brutal beating with multiple blunt force injuries. She was dead before being placed in the water.
Multiple Weapons Used. Investigators determined that at least two different weapons were likely used in Kimberly's murder.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

You could cut the tension with a knife.

10:59WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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