Rawlins Rodeo Murders /// True Crime Garage | Forensic Files

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] Daniel Sun Daniel Daniel Sun did we do that last time yeah I think I'm just
going to do every every week it's later than I thought so we must be having fun so here's a couple of uh emails that
I wanted to go through real quick hate mail this wasn't hate mail um unless I'm missing something here but these are in
regards to the Rollins Rodeo murders that we covered a couple weeks ago this first one is from someone that
says I learned about your podcast on Facebook this is someone who grew up in Rollins
Wyoming and says that her mother also grew up in Rollins and she knew carlen Brown she was one of the victims I think
I got a message maybe on Instagram or maybe it was on Facebook about this she says that uh her mother and carlen were
the same age and grew up together uh she says she grew up hearing the story that
my mom was invited to the fair that day with carlen but she was newly married and pregnant with her the person writing
this email at the time so she declined to go with carlen brown which we both know that carlen brown and her friend
were at some point come across a a bad person right and um we end up finding the body of one
of the victims so much longer so many years later but carlen Brown has never really been accounted for now she says
that I heard other stor about carlen while I was growing up she was kind of a quote Wild Child and my mom said she was
gone a couple of weeks before anyone tried very hard to look for her because it was not out of character for her to
run off from her dad's house in Rollins to her mom's in Colorado Springs when she was upset with one parent or another
I think we talked about that a little bit when we covered it right uh the author of this email says she's never
heard of this dude Royal Russell long who you and I believe are probably is probably responsible for several of
these abduction and murders um says that I I don't think that news of his other crimes and arrest ever made the
rounds and Rollins but cannot say for sure she goes on to say that um my mom never knew the girl that was
with carlen when they disappeared and whose remains were found that seemed seems odd to me since it was such a
small town and my mom was invited to go along that day so they should have all been from the same Social Circle you
know it was an extremely small town and she's saying my mom doesn't know who this other person is possibly but then
if she is a quote unquote wild child then is she meeting somebody there did they become friends at the event did
they go together or did this other friend go in place of of uh someone who was already invited that could not go
right and then they say my husband grew up in Rollins as well when he was in second or third grade it would have been
1979 or 1980 one of his classmates was abducted and murdered her name was Renee Davidson if you want to look it up
during those years when we were in elementary school I remember we were all afraid of a man named
deina we were generally suspicious of anyone who drove a van she says I think his name was probably more like dapena
or deapen something like that ashb the van I don't know if he was a known suspect or a known serial killer or what
perhaps it was discovered he killed Renee and everyone knew it right later when we were in high school in the late
' 80s early 90s another one of my husband's classmates was abducted and murdered her name was Lisa Marie
Peterson she says telling you all of this now makes me realize that's a lot of girls
murdered from one tiny little town right also I have to say having lived in Rollins for 30 years and being third
generation born here I was a little annoyed that you were annoyed at the information you couldn't get a hold of
to piece together your stories especially in part one you sort of painted the locals out to be inept at
investigation but that was a different time too bad you didn't ever get to come to Wyoming to get a real feel for the
little towns because you make a lot of assumptions to fill in the gaps you suggested that the newspaper could have
buried some of the news about the other little Montana girl being killed but I highly doubt it in a small town where
everyone knows everyone's business that said it happened only one month after carene and my mom has no recollection of
her name or event so that's interesting because I do agree with the the person that sent this email and I won't give
out her name but I do agree with her I I can get how I may have come across a little accusatory about the town or
whatever regarding that there was no information on Deborah Meyer was her name when do you not come off like a
dick well I did respond to her and I and I you know I simply stated that Deborah
Meyer thing not only did it annoy me but it it annoyed me to the point where I thought something very suspicious was
going on there something very fishy and what I mean by that is look I'm pretty good at doing the
research on some of these cases humble brag there right but yeah it if if there's a missing person a believe to be
murdered child that happened in the US within the last 50 years if you can't find a decent amount of information
about it or at least more than what we found in Deborah Meyer situation that it just seems very
strange and F fishy to me I mean years ago we covered Tony Muny and that was a Columbus case here and one reason why we
were passionate about covering that case was because there was so little internet
information about Tony mun's case right but again you're in Columbus so you can do more digging and then you find hey
there's a bunch of stuff just not on the internet and kind of like what I said when we're covering the
case chances are there is a bunch of information they probably cover the story multiple times they just never
transferred that information onto the internet yeah and the thing with Tony mzy is as little as there was about his
case on the internet at the time when we covered it there was still quite a bit more than what was found what we were
able to find on Deborah Meyers case um the little girl from Montana and and I mean that was just surprising to me if
you I you know everyone out there if you want to check into it I'm just going to
go ahead and tell you as much as I could find was basically a paragraph that was
on multiple websites and it's pretty much the same paragraph there's no additional information when you go from
one website to the other and the other thing too was It was kind of listed in my opinion as an old by the way case
because a lot of times where I would find information about Deborah Meyer there would it would be from
looking into the other possible victims uh when we discussed the Rollins Rodeo murders but to to my credit and to to
kind of back up my statement that we gave in part one there she says look I my mom grew up with these people and I
told her the name of that Montana girl who went missing that you you know that I was complaining about and she says my
mom doesn't remember that name nor does she even remember hearing about that um abduction or the girl going missing yeah
but it's kind of weird though because especially in that small town it's going to be kind of like the Kennedy
assassination where were you when kind of like here for at least Rock Fans or metal fans it's kind of like you you
remember where you were or what you were supposed to be doing the night that dimeback Daryl was killed at the our
Rosa Villa you know what I mean like this this lady has a story of my mother was supposed to go right oh now it's a
little different because my mother was supposed to go with this girl that went missing but I'm
sure uh with your friends you know one of my friends contacted me or maybe it was like two days before it was like Hey
dbag Daryl's playing at the alosa mhm and I was like with who damage plan don't know if I go right but then
my buddy's like yeah but St back Daryl at least we get to say that we saw him you know in person in concert and we're
like okay maybe and it just he never called and then like when the shooting hit the news waves uh he calls
and says hey um we we almost went there I'm like yeah we did so it kind of reminded me of that anyways at Le at
least that sparked in my mind so that's the where were you when that happened you you know in reference to Dimebag
being killed where were you I didn't go to the show thankfully lucky enough to not have gone to the
show I was kind of same situation as you I knew that they were playing there that
night and I always lik Dimebag and I always liked the Vinnie Paul is the drummer who I believe it was Dimebag
Daryl's cousin as well and they were cousin or brother maybe it was brother regardless they were related and um they
were both in panta together I liked panta but I had seen panta live before so I wasn't really uh motivated to see
damage plan plus around that time too I wasn't going to concerts as much you know as I started getting a little older
I started going to fewer concerts but I was going to better concerts if that makes sense like you know you could see
a lot of shows for 10 bucks 15 bucks 20 bucks you know and I would go to a lot of them when I was young as I got a
little older i' see better bands at bigger venues bigger ticket prices but only go a couple times a year now in
regards to where I was I could can't say where I was that night and I don't remember anyone inviting me or asking me
to go but the the following the next day I W I worked at a uh restaurant that was
about I'd say a mile from the AL Rosa Villa where the shooting took place and in my section I kept getting a lot of um
younger kids which was weird to get that at like the lunch hour during the week because I I feel like that was that
concert would have been like a Wednesday night or Thursday night maybe and yeah I I remember it being a
weird night so I kept getting tables full of these of like 19 and 20 year olds that were dressed like they were
going to an Alro Sevilla show and I I ended up and they they looked like they had been up all night
like I I was like man I'm getting some rough looking tables yeah and so I asked uh somebody was kind of consoling
somebody else at their at the table with them and I felt bad so I I I was like oh
you know are you guys having a bad day is everything okay you know uh anything I can do just trying to you know break
the ice a little bit and they told me what what happened I didn't know until right then and there right and I was
like oh man you know I'm kind of floored so I didn't really know what to say but
they were explaining to me that they were just like tired and starving they' been up all night and it was because
after the shooting took place the you know the police and Medics and everybody was checking everybody out but the
police were also getting questions you know asking questions and getting eyewitness accounts to kind of really
piece together what happened right and then I think really after then right away a lot of people started going to
alosa to mourn the situation yeah cuz we we played there a lot when we were in a
band in high school so we were there and not only were we at the alosa a lot but
we were in every part of alosa the stage backstage some areas that most people wouldn't have been if they've even just
seen a show there and so it was kind of surreal because when you watch the video
footage of that you could see like you know that stage you know any camera angle that they
had at some point you watch a show at that angle because if you're the headlining
band maybe you're watching the opening bands on the side or after you got done playing you're watching the headlining
band from the side so yeah well and we Loosely knew the owner I mean we didn't know him outside of the alosa but we
knew him from playing there and and talking with him yeah behind the scenes uh Rick catella The Rock and Roll
Reverend who was locally was kind of famous for his commercials when we were kids you know he had the I'm not going
to attempt to do his voice but that but that's when you thought you made it when
you were in a high school band and he would say this is Rick catella of the rock and roll Reverend of the AL Rosa
Villa mhm tonight yeah tonight or Friday night and then he'd say your band name and you go oh my God we made it his
commercials which I mean fantastic his delivery and his voice but his commercials it it was like you would
hear it on the radio between heavy metal songs and hard rock songs on on on a local station here and it was like a guy
that was introducing a monst monster truck rally or a NASCAR Big Time Nascar event or heavyweight championship fight
I mean he had that that voice and those pipes and a great delivery tonight you know and You' get even you would get
pumped up especially if you were going to the alosa to see a band that you liked and you would hear it on the drive
up you know cuz remember it was a bit of a drive for us when we were 16 17 it felt like it felt like a long drive and
it doesn't anymore at the most it would have been like maybe 30 minutes 40 minutes right but but back then it felt
like you're going to another world yeah yeah yeah a lot of people are have been saying that that we should release our
music for sale our high school band music for sale on on the we on the website so if I remember
correctly so Rick catella his parents owned Al Roa Villa right and the name comes from his father's name was Al his
mother's name was Rosa and so that's how they get the name and some of his I don't know if they were brothers and
sisters or cousins but there were a lot of people that looked like Rick catella that worked in in the uh bar yeah they
didn't look like him but they look like they could be related right I think one of the bartenders was his brother and I
think yeah the lady remember the mean lady that worked the door they were always nice to me everybody would always
talk about oh this person's mean or always nice to me I I only had a problem with the lady that worked the door for
whatever reason it was probably my fault I I'm not I don't mean I shouldn't say she was mean I can't remember the
situation but I think that was his sister I was joking about you being a [ __ ] before but you were definitely
more of a [ __ ] back then so I don't know if I ever told you the story but and we'll get back to the Rollins Rodeo
murders here in just a second but I want to make sure I tell you this what I'm thinking about it so a few years
probably 2 years after after Dimebag was killed at the alosa Villa right now mind you how many
people were that was a that was a public shooting for those of you that aren't aware yeah the the perpetrator he was
killed by a police officer that came in and saved the day I mean cuz who knows how many other victims and fatalities
would have been that night oh it would have been bad it would have been very bad but there was if you watched the
footage you would have been you would realize that if that cop never showed up it would just
been maybe a hundred well this the the the guy the shooter had every intention of not just shooting the guys on the
stage but also firing into the crowd yeah and um I bumped into remember Daryl the sound guy yeah um
we he would do sound for us and he did sound for a lot of people and sometimes the national acts would bring in their
own sound guy um but Daryl was if he was in a good mood and he which was never well well
some nights he partied too much and the sound wasn't great but if he didn't party too much I thought he was a pretty
quality sound guy so I went to a place called The High Beck which gets its name because it's on the corner of high and
Beck and I used to work second shift near there at the property downtown Security
administrator and I would go in there some nights usually on like a Thursday after my shift was over so it'd be
pretty late like 11 o'clock at night by the time I'd walk in and he was sitting on a stool at the bar and I didn't
recognize him at first like I it's a long bar so I walked past him his back would have been uh to me right and he
saw me and he goes oh and I don't remember if he remembered my name right away or if it came to him shortly
afterwards but he called me over and so we sat there and talked old War Stories all night as we drank and uh and then I
I I brought up the the shooting which I probably shouldn't know but well you're a dick but but I mean he
see this this show this is just Prov him Point go ahead well I mean why wouldn't
I though like joking I we knew each other he worked there and I just was like I don't even think I brought it up
to to get his opinion or right hear his story right I really just brought it up as a like a oh man that was horrible I
heard about that and I feel bad and um and dude like I got through like one sentence and he started he broke down on
me broke down on me started crying and uh gave him a few hugs and uh we we talked it out and it was certainly
horrible thing for all involved a horrible thing for the city but then talking to people that were there I mean
that was the only time that I did and he told me he said um the catella family almost shut down the place and I think
they temporarily shut it down for a long time so here's here's some information for you on December 88th 2004 damage
plan was um on tour uh a guy named Nathan gaale which was a former Marine 25 years old he jumped the
fence which there was a patio and the fence was tall this fence was 6 feet tall he jumps the fence he gets on stage
he shoots Daryl in the head five times has a 9 mm Brea M9 uh Daryl was pronounced dead at the
scene um he's going to kill three others and wound seven more Jeff Mayhem Thompson which was the
head of security went right after you know right after he shot Dimebag he went right
after him and he got killed uh Al Rosa employer employee Aaron hulke was also killed and an audience member Nathan
Bray which was a Gross City alumni and a guy that came to our shows by a a kid that I actually played baseball
with for many years and love the guy to death he's a short guy but if you watch that
footage Dimebag is shot and Dimebag collapses and at some point Nathan jumps on stage to try to help him mhm and he
gets shot right in the chest um and like I said there was other there was seven other people wounded now there was
roughly two uh 250 people at the show yeah and they had two other bands two local
bands that were supporting the show but yeah Nathan was he was this awesome guy and he went to the show with a guy I
grew up with uh Josh Drake which was a really good guitar player and Josh came into the the place
I worked right afterwards and we just talked guitars for a while and then all of a sudden he brought up the shooting
he and he was there he went with Nathan and when he told me the story I mean he just you know kind of zoned out for a
minute and it's really hard to listen to because that's this guy's friend I mean
Nathan was my friend too right but they would come to when we played in our band
ground war they would come watch us play and and Nathan would always go oh yeah it
was pretty good but you you know oh no he would always say it's pretty good for uh you know [ __ ] music or he'd say it's
pretty good for um boy band music it was always something cuz he really liked you
know he'd kind of bust your balls and then he'd say oh no I like you guys but he liked really really heavy music mhm
and even though we're like heavy like he was like nah it's not heavy enough like
you know and it was every show but he'd go to a bunch of shows and support and buy our records and like I said I played
baseball with him for multiple years mhm so just what a tragedy of uh Columbus Ohio well and you know what it was it
was such a uh shocker for me when it happened that I didn't I purposely didn't read any of the newspaper
accounts I didn't watch any of the news coverage uh I kind of just avoided it you know how sometimes things hit you
real hard you're you're just not ready to deal with it and so I just didn't I kind of tried to block it out in the
beginning and didn't really pay any attention to it and I think it must have been about six months
later um some TV channel did a a like a 20 minute 30 minute story on it right and they gave the whole rundown
of how what took place and and how it all went down and you know it was a stunner for me was you mentioned the
shooter jumped the fence and this was like a this was like a like you said six foot tall maybe taller 7 foot tall
privacy fence right that was created so that they would have a patio and the the
alosa I thought was a pretty cool setup the way that they had everything because
250 people 300 people really good sound um it was a place that had small field but it hold
it held a few hundred people and they would have these two doors on the sides that went out to this patio area if you
remember when we were young and we first started playing there there that patio area didn't exist that was like part of
the parking lot and the problem when we were younger at the alosa was they would
pack so many people in there and the it would get so damn hot in there by like the second band like that place
never had to turn on the heat cuz remember we'd show up for like sound check and bringing in the equipment and
stuff and it would be frigid in there it would be cold and you would be like oh man how we going to how are we going to
play in here it's like feels like it's 40° and by the time the second band would go on it felt like it was 90 or
100 degrees in there because all the lights all the equipment all the people yeah and that patio area was great
because you'd watch a band and then everybody would flock out to that patio because they needed a breather right
they needed a breath of fresh air and that guy scaled that uh privacy fence went in through one of the side doors
and and watching the account on that show of how everything went down it was another stunner for me because I always
just assumed that the shooter went in the back door remember how like when bands were playing it wasn't uncommon
for the back door to be open right or cracked or cracked yeah because it was so hot in there
that it would be they would just kind of leave it open and it was a door that I don't know if it if you had to
physically lock it or if it just locked behind you but a lot of the band members
and Ries and stuff and security would go in and out of that door kind of constantly throughout the night so it
was always just cracked or propped open yeah and anybody could go through that door but it was kind of known like if
you're not a part of the band they'll go through that door so yeah and to give you an idea of how often that door was
just like left open that's why I always thought that's where he entered the building from I
remember de tones played at the aosa which was a big deal and I don't remember what tickets were but for
whatever reason me and my buddy I think it just sold out so fast that me and my buddy couldn't get tickets to it we
really wanted to see death tones so I told him I said um he was all you know upset he was down that we weren't going
to get to see him and I I said look man it's not going to be as good as seeing them but that door the back the
door to the back of the building that goes right behind the stage is always open it's always cracked let's just
drive up there and we'll just sit by that door and uh listen to the band listen to
De tones that way yeah and what's crazy about this whole situation too is uh Nathan
Gail um was actually an altercation with the band 6 months prior in Cincinnati in
which he damaged like $5,000 worth of equipment and had to be removed from stage by security and it was all this
stuff about like that Dimebag Daryl broke up panta and uh yes and Vinnie Paul is his
brother okay so and then also there was some allegations that Gail made that said
that uh they were stealing his songs Daryl stole a song that he had written yeah the shooter what was his name Gail
yeah he was like super from my understanding he was like super delusional like he I think he was
schizophrenic yeah yeah and and he had um he was kind of living in a different reality than the rest of us and yeah he
he was blaming the band members for a lot of things going on in his life and they obviously had no you know they
didn't know what was going on in his what's also really impressive is responding within 3 minutes to the 911
call made at 10:15 seven police officers enter through the front entrance and move towards the stage mhm within 3
minutes of the 911 call and like I said yes now I know some other friends of mine that were there that said once the
shooting took place people were pushing people out onto that patio or outside and then even once they're on the patio
people were helping people maybe they opened up the fence maybe they couldn't and some people were jumping the fence
but I just remember that there was a lot of people helping out to get people out
of Harm's Way but like I said if this guy had more guns or more ammunition and the cops didn't get there he was just
going to keep killing people I mean like I said I wouldn't be surprised this guy
was probably schizophrenic but thank God that he didn't plan it out better because if he would have
I mean like I said it could be 50 to 100 people murdered so and and and without that response time from the police
officers well and he's he has some military training too you know so yeah um yeah it was a horrible situation but
also one of those ones where you're like you know thank God it wasn't worse than
what it what it could have been right um so back to this Rollin so this is from this next one's from our blog actually
and while I do really appreciate the email that I got that we just went over I actually prefer you know if
anybody out there I prefer to direct people to the blog if they have a comment or a personal story about a case
that we cover well what's interesting is it gives everybody else that listen to the story that's fascinated by that case
a chance to hear that information yes and a chance to join in the conversation as well because sometimes we get
questions that are directed to you or I or both through email that we might not have the answers to but if you put it on
the blog you might get somebody local from the area or local from the time frame that is able to add something to
the story or shed some light on your question this one's weird cuz it's similar this is my mother grew up in the
area and graduated from Rollins High School she knew both carlen Brown and Christy gross she says carlen Brown and
Christy gross were not friends they ran in different circles but she knew them uh her comment when I mentioned the case
to her last night at dinner was that they all knew about those two girls going missing but as far as she could
tell the local authorities kept the other two going missing very quiet this is in resp this is regarding the younger
girls that went missing they didn't want to freak out people especially tourist so that goes
to what we were talking about about Deborah Meyer's case here we have a a daughter of a local woman who says yeah
we she knew about it but they kept it very quiet especially and she puts particularly Deborah's case they kept
very quiet yeah and it's it's interesting to hear from people that live Liv in the area of these cases I
wish I wish we heard more from them so definitely you know go to the blog if you in the area even if you think it's
something kind of silly I mean I've heard some of the most interesting things from our listeners well I love
when people throw a theory out there me too what what about this or did anybody consider this or you know and sometimes
you can you can come up with a good theory in a particular case because of another case that you've heard of or
studied and say you know what does this apply here as well but so a couple other
things she mentions that although hitchhiking was fairly common the state penitentiary is located in Rollins which
I I didn't know that the state pen was in Rollins and she adds folks around here have always been a little more
weary about giving rides to strangers because the prison is located right there right and then regarding remember
we had some uh this was more of me complaining in episode one but there were two very different
accounts of their vehicle situation with the first two victims carlen and Christie One account was that their
vehicle their car was found a long drive away in a place called uh warland a town
called warland and then the other story regarding the same situation right was that they were driving a van that day
and the van was later located at the rodeo grounds like they like their vehicle didn't even leave that uh the
place that they went the fair I think the [ __ ] thing that we said was is it a car or a van and that's a big
difference um one this blogger this person on our blog says that her mother also said that the
reports they all heard about the car was not found at either warland or van found
at the rodeo grounds but rather their car had been found at wagonhound rest stop at the wagon Hound rest stop which
is between Rollins and laramy right so now we have a third account of what happened to the vehicle right but I I I
like this one a little better just because it's somebody from the area from the time right so interesting stuff
there that's interesting case what uh episode numbers do you have those off the top of your I don't off the top of
your Dome what 275 I guess I don't know I'm I'm going to go look it up right now on
my Stitcher app so maybe those maybe that little bit of information there that's was a really
interesting case to research and to um cover on our show here because one it was one I had not heard of remember I
gave you some praise for bringing that one to the table and you praised a listener for suggesting that case I'd
never it's it's one of those ones that when you when you read into it and when you look it up when you study it you're
going why isn't this like general knowledge why isn't this more well known throughout the True Crime um you
know yeah 275 274 275 274 mhm episode numbers yeah so maybe that maybe going going over those emails will inspire
more people to come forward with information regarding that case and what was going on or their speculation or
rumors that they heard I I like hearing the rumors too Captain because I'm a firm believer that while I try to walk
into it you know take a rumor with a grain of salt type of situation I also believe that you know where there's
smoke sometimes there's fire so sometimes there's truth in those rumors especially ones that get handed down
from generation to generation right just like they say there's a little truth in every joke there you go
[Applause]

Rawlins Rodeo Murders /// True Crime Garage Off The Record: Episode 43

Nic and the Captain discuss: The Rawlins Rodeo Murders. www.truecrimegarage.com

Brief Summary

Listeners share personal connections to the Rollins Rodeo murders, revealing local history and community reactions to the victims' disappearances.

Key points

Rollins Rodeo Murders. A listener shares a personal connection to the victims of the Rollins Rodeo murders.
The Al Rosa Villa Shooting. A recollection of the tragic shooting at Al Rosa Villa and its impact on the community.
The Shock of Tragedy. The speaker reflects on the shocking tragedy in Columbus, Ohio, avoiding media coverage initially.
The Shooter's Altercation. The shooter had a prior altercation with a band, raising questions about his mental state.
Quick Police Response. Police responded within three minutes to the shooting, potentially saving many lives.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

That's a lot of girls murdered from one tiny little town.

Reflecting on the tragic history of Rollins, Wyoming.

4:34WatchOct 22, 2024

Tension

45/ 100Some tension

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