Plagues of Hysteria with Andrew McMahon | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And I'm Andrew. And this is a special episode of Morbid, everybody.
[Music] It's special. We have a guest. We do. Yay. Andrew McMahon on the show. You
might know him from one of his several bands. We've got Something Corporate, Jack's Mannequin, or Andrew McMahon in
the Wilderness. That's me. Welcome. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for of those. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of
course. Thanks for being in studio. It's like such a cool place to be. I'm I'm on I'm
honored. So are we. Uh so getting into the questions, I did read that you were somewhat of a child
prodigy when it came to the piano. What drew you to the piano so young? I mean, it's going to get heavy really
quick. You know, I I had a We had like a loss in our family. My my uncle passed away. And right around that
same time, I had a friend's dad teach me how to play a Jerry Lee Lewis song on the piano. And
I'd never I mean, I I had piano lessons a little bit as a kid, but I took the chord that he taught
me and all of a sudden just started writing songs. And that was kind of how I processed my grief from losing my
uncle. And that was it for me. I was like, this is the thing. You know, like writing songs became my my whole like I
would come home from school and I would just sit at the piano until I was told I
had to go to sleep or do something for school or whatever. that. It's been It's been that way ever since.
That's when you know it's meant to be. When it's something that like heals a part, you know?
Yeah, exactly. I just started trying to learn. I got like a keyboard. It's hard.
Yeah, I mean, I think when you're I think when you're nine, it's like a whole Right?
Everything is so much easier. Yeah, you have that whole sort of neuroplasticity or whatever. And And and
I really liked it, right? So it wasn't like I I didn't start going to piano lessons until like maybe a year or two
after that. And and so for me, it was just like constant discovery. And And And like you said, it was like it was a
way to process my world, you know? So I just I I I think I blew past the it's hard part
until I got into like having to study classical music. And then it was like, this sucks.
Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, that's like real hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was I wasn't a great student, but I I sort of
did what I had to to learn how to navigate the piano and and read and do all that and do all that
stuff. But it was always just like a safe haven for me. And it worked out. Yeah. I think.
It's been the only real job I've had to have my whole life, which is which is is a really
a huge gift. I mean, I'm always wondering when the bottom will drop out of that, but But But But yeah, so far,
so good. Yeah. Well, you've been making music since like 1998. Yeah. Well, I mean, since you were a kid, but
officially. Yeah, so Something Corporate, which was like my sort of official second high school
band, we throughout my like, you know, junior senior of high school kind of continued
to get bigger. And I sort of skipped college and and focused on that. And miraculously, we got signed when I was
18. That's incredible. And that was sort of the beginning of of all of it. So I I, you know, Something Corporate did
really well and we we toured a ton and put out records. And And then, you know, I've kind of hopped from like about
every 10 years or so start a new project cuz I am restless, I guess you could say.
And yeah, it's it's been a a journey, for sure. And I've had good fans who are willing to follow me through multiple
name changes. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. Something Corporate was my thing in high school. Like
Really? 16-year-old Elena Yeah, 16-year-old Elena was like at every show. What? show.
that's how we connected was cuz I started having fans message me on Instagram. And they're like, you got You
got mentioned on the Morbid podcast. That's so funny to think And And And I like it The first one, I was like, oh,
that's cool. And then I saw another, you know, another few roll through. And then
I was like, who are these people? I'm like, we should reach out to these women. They keep talking about us. And
it And it seemed like they're pretty popular. And then we met at the What What was it? Roadrunner show?
on the Something Corporate reunion. Um Yep. Thanks to Connor. Yes. Shoutout. Connor's a good man. He's a very good
man. Yeah. My tour manager. He's our Gen Z holding down the Hell yeah. Yeah, we we we We like to I I like to bring young
young bucks into the mix and and bring them up. That's always been sort of a a part of our mission. And Connor rose the
ranks from uh from content to now he's tour managing. He's a good representation of Gen Z. He
He is. He is is actually like I'm I'm a huge I hate the whole kids these days philosophy. I I really like
it to me, I feel like it's such a it's such a sign of you're not actually paying attention. And I've had I've had
my whole perception of the Gen Z universe reshaped by Connor and his his people and people we've brought into our
camp. I'm like, no, these guys are actually hard workers and super fun and very fashionable.
They are. Yeah, very fashionable. I'm a I'm a huge fan. You got to meet the right Gen Zs. I'm a Zillennial, so I
like I found her on the cusp. I like to say I'm a millennial cuz, you know, Gen Z gets a lot of hate.
What's funny is like I always rejected the fact that I was a millennial because I I graduated in 2000 and we didn't have
a like a qualification. We were just sort of in this nether group between Gen X and whatever was coming next. And then
I think by the time I was 30, then they started calling us millennials. And I was like, I I denounce this. You're
like, no, I wasn't. Yeah, yeah, I don't like this qualification or designation. I I worked at Hollywood
Video Oh, yeah. in high school. Like RIP video stores. Guys, that's where you could rent
movies. That was where you could rent VHS tapes. And also DVDs. Yeah. My favorite job ever. And I used
to make like cuz we would be able to pick what could be on the screens. And I would make everybody play this one DVD.
And it was like Drive-Thru Records. Oh, yeah. I remember well. And I would make them play it just so we could have
the Something Corporate performance. That's amazing. Like over and over. I had many of my friends uh were
Blockbuster video employees. How lovely. And we used to go hang out at Blockbuster on the weekends cuz they
would just, you know, they'd smoke weed in the back. And And like be And you know, like we're proper degenerate
Blockbuster employee managerial staff. And And uh yes, I do. I I miss the Blockbuster days.
Yeah, it's a good vibe. It really is. One thing I wish I experienced. I remember Blockbuster like a little bit
from being like five and six. But beyond that, no. I mean, the truth is the new model is working better. There were
often times there were no videos available at Blockbuster. But But it was a it was a fun sort of uh snapshot.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a cozy vibe. Well, going back to the music, how would
you say your relationship with music has kind of changed and evolved throughout all the years that you've been doing it?
I mean, look, I think you you know, you're an author, so you know. It's like as you
you you start by writing cuz it's just like a reflex. And it's And it's this exploratory thing. And I think the the
biggest shift is that you have to continue to find ways to explore and and make it fresh and make it exciting. So
like I've I've changed processes over the years, right? You know, I think when some of that like oh, I just have
to be sitting at the piano all day. And I'm like, now I have a family and I spend a lot of time on the road. So I
do, you know, I I do little tricks to sort of re-engage myself in the writing process. So I'll write with other people
that I'm really excited about. I I try and always like surround myself with writers that are both older and younger
than me. Um you know, just so I can, you know, like I love having people in the room that are still in
that phase of of writing where they're like hyper creative and and just super hungry. And it keeps me hungry. So I
think that's changed. And then what you write about changes, right? Yeah. So as you get as you get to certain stages of
life and the questions are changing about what is relevant or what's important to you. Um
you know, you have to find new ways in to discuss those things. I I feel like changing projects for me is like
has been a part of that, right? So it's like Something Corporate was like very much about you know, all the things that
you encounter in like high school and and coming of age. It's a lot of makeups and breakups. And
And I I think our industry, like the music business, is fueled on a lot of that. And as somebody who wants to write
and perform and do this till the day I die, you know, I've had to sort of shift my thinking. You know, a lot of
Jack's Mannequin was a I I got sick when I was in the middle of that project. So
I cancer and I was a cancer survivor. I was like, how do you write about that? You know, and and and then, you know,
and then sort of shifting into this next phase, a lot of it's been about keeping my edge while maintaining a
family and a and a life and and, you know, how to look after my kid and those questions that come with fatherhood and
trying to stay creative, you know? So I I think those are are sort of you know, big parts of how you I shift
and and try and stay creative. It's cool cuz you can look back on every stage of
your life and there's a song for it. Or an album for it. Really. Yeah, totally. And I think too, like I've tried really
hard because a lot of my fans have grown up with me. Like rather than making the mistake I think a lot of
people do as they get older in their their artistic processes or trying to sort of recreate their their youth and
still sing about those things. And I I think it's the the challenge for me is like, how do I really talk about what's
relevant to me now and put that in a pop song, you know, and and that can be tricky. Um
but but I think if you strike on something that's universal, it applies backwards and forwards and and you know,
I I I want people who've been with me for a really long time to be like, oh, he's talking to an experience that I'm
having right now because we're a similar age and going through similar things in
life. Um but also if I do it well, you know, you could be 15 and pick up that record and and it will land, you know,
most of the artists I was listening to when I was 15 were much older than I was and somehow their songs were still
connecting with Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's like what you just said, like people
who've listened to you have grown up with you now. So like it's funny cuz when we went to the Something Corporate
concert where we met, it was funny to look around and see like I was like, oh, it's just like a bunch of moms and dads
being like just like transporting back into like Something Corporate days. Yeah. But it's fun because it's like
we've been able to relate to you in the music the entire way through. And you can feel like the shifts, but they're so
smooth because like you're going like we're going into that phase. So we're going to go in there together. Yeah. So
it's just been really nice like even I like last night we were talking about Bluey and I was like, well, we're just
parents now together. It's wild. I You know, I think it's it's like the a task, but I think it's a worthy one and I'm
like I'm I'm super reverent of the fact that there are people who I've been seeing at shows since they were you
know, high school, middle age kids coming out to see me when I was not much older than them. I was 18 or 19, but it
felt like a world apart, right? When you're you're sort of like grown and then you have like a kid in the
audience. Now, you know, now we're sort of orbiting the same life trajectories and and um I really like I I want to
make music for those people who've been in those rooms and I I want them to have
songs that that they can connect to at this stage of wherever they're at. You're killing it.
No, thank you. I try really hard. And it trickles down cuz there was like three generations of
us at that show cuz there was Elena, me, and my little cousin. So it's like all I
started listening to you when I was like six. Yeah. And then still like you're listening cuz my cousin's like three
singing like I woke up in a car. So it does trickle down. Yeah Yeah, well like the shows I went to
when I was you know, the first shows I was going to, a lot of them were bands my my brothers and sisters
three of them are are 10, 12 years older than I am and you know, I went to see REM when I was you know, when I was in
the seventh grade or whatever and you know, when I became a huge Tom Petty fan and like going to those shows, seeing
the young people that are picking were picking up, you know, the Heartbreakers to me to my people my brothers and
sisters ages and older, you know, in in a dream world that's really what you want. You want to
see people across generations connecting to what you do and and and um that's sort
of the the fight I'm in every day is just to to sort of make sure that, you know, it spreads to as as many people
across generations as possible. It does. You're doing it right. My youngest is obsessed with happy. I love
that. She was like, wait a second. He sings happy? I was like, yep. And she's five. So
you're There you go. That's that's the deal, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, finally to transition us into like
our world of morbid and macabre, you have a song with your band Something Corporate called Me and the Moon.
Yes. Can you It's a little more eerie and haunting. It's like not the typical style for you. So tell us a little bit
about where the idea for that song came from, like how it came to be. Well, see like when
we we put out the first Something Corporate record, I think a lot of that music was really reflective of sort of
our high school, post high school journey cuz a lot of those songs were written in that time and that was sort
of the first record we went out and toured the world with and got it noticed for
and then, you know, by that point that I was coming back to write those songs for North, yeah, I was
just in a much different headspace and it was like I wanted to do something moodier and and I it was like the first
time I was I was living in Jordan Pundik from New Found Glory. I was living in his guest room, you know, and and it was
sort of the first time I'd lived away from my parents and and uh and so I had all this freedom just to sit in a room
uh and write all day and I I mean, I would be lying to say I wasn't like smoking a ton of weed at that point and
and just playing the piano and just trying to find new new chords and new new chord shapes and progressions and
and I I got to the this sort of piano figure that plays under that the verses of that song which I was like, this is
so cool. Like I really it felt like a something really new for me and the first words that showed up were
it was it's a good year for murder and It's such a good opening line. I I remember even in that moment being like,
oh, this is going to land pretty interesting in the Yeah, yeah, like punk rock princess to
let's talk about murder, you know. Um but I I was just in love with it and I and it it sort of wrote it itself like
the verses of wrote itself and it became about this sort of idea of like a suburban
mother finally reaching her breaking point with her husband. And you know, I grew up in
a amazing house and by the time I was a you know, in high school, it was like a you know, a lot of like a house full of
women. It was like my sister and my mom and and me and you know, my mom never tried to kill my dad. So there's there's
there's none of that. But like but I I think I could relate to the angst of that just having been you know, my mom
and I were super close growing up and and so it was like originally it was like a courtroom drama. Like the chorus
was like was all about what happens after the the the murder and then I it didn't
fit right and and um and me and the band were on tour in we were in Amsterdam, I think or something
like that. Or no, maybe yeah, we were we were you know, we were in Leeds and ended up meeting up with a couple of the
Drive-Thru bands and went on a very wild sort of psychedelic journey Nice. and I remember I was
following the moon all night by myself through Leeds, England. That was like I was certain it
was calling me. I won't paint the details of what led me to that moment, but but I remember just
going like I just want to go see where this moon is at and I just followed it through the streets It was you and the
moon. Yeah, yeah, totally until I ended up like locked in a in a hotel bathroom and I I had this piece of paper and I
just wrote it's me and the moon and I like Oh my god, stop. That's amazing. The handwriting was it was like cursive and
just kind of like Like super loopy writing the words was actually a part of the journey and and I woke up with that
piece of paper and I and I ended up on a stage where sound checking and I finished the song on stage and I was
like and just wrote the chorus to the rest of the song that day and and yeah, it's been one of my favorites forever
and the fact that fans followed us into that that phase was such a huge thing cuz I was like, are they going to
hate me for taking this hard left turn into 6/8 sort of murder mystery song but yeah, it was
that song was a was a journey from start to finish and still I think like is a high water mark
for the Something Corporate catalog. Yeah. I remember hearing that song for the first time and being like, what
Like excuse me? It was definitely a challenge to fans that to be like, do you want to go here? And and but it gave
me a lot of hope for the future too that it was like, okay, cool. I can I can stretch out and and people will take a
chance and Oh, if we'll go with you for murder, Yeah, yeah. the sky's the limit anyway.
Like you're good. It's such a great song. And I think now we can go into Dancing
Plagues. Yes. You know, quite the transition because, you know, music, dancing. You do a lot
of dancing on stage. I love to I love to dance. It's part of the whole thing. Uh so we're going to talk about Dancing
Plagues and we're also going to talk about a couple of uh nunneries that just had some stuff going on that I
thought was pretty historic. That's kind of where we're going here. I was raised a Catholic so that I'm I'm
I'm all I'm all for getting into the the nun the nun phase So this is going to we're going to start
way back. This was on Christmas Eve in 1021 CE. Oh [ __ ] Way back. This is where it begins.
So this small German town called Kolb eeked. I looked up all these pronunciations so don't come for me. No,
you always kill the pronunciations. I try. Uh sometimes I kill it the other way, but
um so 18 of the town's residents gathered outside of the church and started dancing. Just started dancing
and carrying on with wild abandon. And the noise from these dancers made it impossible for the priest to deliver
mass. So he went outside and he started to reprimand the group and they were just seeming completely oblivious to
him. Like it wasn't like they were ignoring him. They just like didn't even know he was there. Just kept going. And
and rather than heed the priest's words, which at that time people would heed that priest's words, they just continued
dancing and clapping and leaping and they were forming what would later be documented to be called
a ring dance of sin. Oh, obsessed. Kind of love. I want in. Where do we sign up for the ring dance
of sin? So according to the legend, the priest who was very angry, very incensed about
the interruption and disrespect, quite frankly, cursed them all to dance for the entire year and none of them were
able to regain control of their bodies until the following Christmas. What? Wait, the priest did
Which I didn't realize priests could curse people. So he insisted that they keep going because they had even
started. like, oh, you want to dance? You're going to dance until next Christmas.
Yeah. Wow. And they did. And by the time the curse was ended, the group was exhausted and reportedly fell
into a deep sleep and a lot of them never woke up from that deep sleep. So some of them died.
So, he just straight up killed some of them. Okay, priest. Um can I ask practical
questions about food and and bathroom? None of that. None of that. In fact, many of these dancing plagues, food,
bathroom breaks, like sleep, don't happen. Not necessarily. through it and that's how most of them
die. Wow. There's deaths that come out of these. Are they just like peeing all over
themselves? Probably. It's probably It's reckless. Grins, like whatever is happening there
is a lot. So, some people lived for a year doing this? I guess so or they would join, I think,
maybe. Others would join. Um so, given, you know, how old this story is, obviously, I'm sure there's been some
embellishments. Yeah. Um but according to historian John Waller, there was nothing in the story that medieval
people found hard to believe. Like to be quite honest. They're like, "Yeah, whatever."
Yeah, people probably would dance themselves for a year to death. Uh cuz it was a society that was very
accustomed to assigning supernatural explanations to literally anything they couldn't understand. So, the idea of
such crazy behavior being the result of a curse from a holy man was like, "Yeah,
obviously. Like that's what happened." And as he points out, plenty of sources indicate that this obscure chronicler
may have embellished a real event. So, it there was truth to this. Uh basically, the details might have been a
little bit exaggerated, but that like manic and like uncontrollable dance that they were doing probably happened cuz it
has happened. Yeah. So, the this was kind of the beginning of like dancing plagues being documented.
Now, 200 years later in a German town of Erfurt, looked it up, I looked it up. crazy and bizarre outbreak of dancing
mania broke out in 1247. So, this time at least 200 people are said to have gathered on a bridge. Oh.
And it was over the Moselle River in Maastricht where they danced until the bridge collapsed.
Stop it. And all of them died. Said rock it till the wheels fall off. and they died. And then that was it.
Bridge collapsed, everyone died. That was it. And then there's So, that happened.
How long were they up there for? Does it say? It doesn't say how long, but I feel like
it probably wasn't that long cuz 200 people on a bridge. And I don't think the structural integrity of bridges in
1247 was like something of note. Not quite the same as today. I'm assuming they all just went down, but
there is a second version of this story. So, there is like a little wiggle room.
Okay. So, this one In this version of the story, the same thing happened except everyone didn't die. People died,
but there were survivors. And people say that some of those survivors were taken
to a nearby chapel where they kept dancing. the And this nearby chapel was dedicated
to Saint Vitus, which or Vitus, excuse me, where these people received treatment for their {quote} unquote
mania and many of them were restored to full health. So, they said they went to this specific chapel
and that's what cured them. And they never danced again. Never danced again. It's a flat a flash mob gone wrong.
Flash mob gone horribly wrong. And then a chapel was able to heal any of the survivors. And Saint Vitus comes
up a few times. What what what's Saint Vitus the saint of? That's Apparently, he's like that he has
something to do with dance. Like he has something to do with this and he is able
to He's got brought up a lot. Cuz the dancing madness actually gets translated into being called Saint Vitus dance.
Oh, nice. What is he the Is he a patron saint of anything? Hold on. Let's look. Like wait a second.
I'm excited for this. comes up a lot. Is he a patron saint of of standing still?
Of chilling. Of chilling. So, his name is sometimes rendered Guy or Guido. Was a Christian a Christian martyr, I know,
from Sicily. I know. His surviving hagiography, Obviously. Yeah, that is pure legend. Blah blah
blah. I don't know if he's a patron saint. He's the patron saint of dance. Let's I think we can all agree with
that. that. Yeah, exactly. It is yeah. It is also led to Vitus being considered the patron saint of
dancers and entertainers in general. Boom. He is also said to protect against lightning strikes, animal attacks, and
oversleeping. That's sick of him. Yeah, I appreciate that. He does not guide me. I'm oversleeping all the time.
He didn't help the first group that that slept until they died. Didn't help them.
Now, it's from this like second telling of that story that the affliction got the name choreomania, which is Greek and
it translates to dancing madness. Um and that's And now it's more well-known as Saint Vitus dance. So, he gets to He
gets to be named in the affliction. That's fun. Now, over time, the terminology would change a little bit,
but the behavior would be end would end up being called chorea, which is an actual disorder. And it's incorrectly
that like referred to as that because this disorder, chorea, is a disorder of the central nervous system that causes
like irregular like brief jerking moment like movements, but it's not dancing. They meant choreo. Yeah, it's just They
meant choreo and then chorea is not that. It's not hanging with your homies on a bridge dancing until it falls down.
hear someone say you're having the time of your life, you correct them. If you ever hear them saying it.
Okay. I'm sure it comes up a lot. All the time. It's very common in my life. Comes up on the road a lot.
Um so, these two early examples were were contained in Germany, but a similar form of hysteria that kind of had like
similar, you know, symptoms to it was known as tarantism. Okay. And it emerged in the 13th century in Italy. And
according to Robert Marth Bartholomew, which I am obsessed with the name Bartholomew.
Same, I love it a lot. Why isn't it used anymore? I don't know. Uh he said, "People asleep or awake
would suddenly jump up feeling an acute pain like the sting of a bee. Some saw the spider, others did not, but they
knew that it must be from the tarantula." Like capital T, the spider? The spider. Okay. Not a spider. Nope.
The spider. The only spider. The only one. They ran out of the house into the street to the marketplace dancing in
great excitement. Soon they were joined who like them had been bitten or by people who had been stung in previous
years for the disease was never quite cured. The poison remained in the body and reactivated every year in the heat
of the summer. What? I I love I love This is amazing. I wish it I wish this still happened.
I know. I feel like it probably does. Maybe we just don't know about it. Let's make it I Flash mobs are actually
this. Yeah, pretty much. They've all been bitten. They have. By the spider. And it happens
in the heat of I like that it like reactivates in the heat of the summer. Like summer we're going to get crazy
with party. Yeah. Makes sense. And it's called tarantism and it's most often um girls and young women are afflicted.
Probably cuz they're like hysteria, am I right? I know. They're they're so random.
Yeah. Uh and that's when it got labeled hysteria when they were like, "Oh, girls
and young women get it? Yeah. Hysteria." Uh like the dancing plagues, there was no identifiable cause of the tarantism
because like a tarantula bite doesn't cause this. You don't say. So, like there's no reason for this, but they
just believed it to be like a mass like psychogenic illness, which is even scarier. Yeah, a little bit. Probably
just a reaction to the times. That's honestly Everybody's probably bored. They're like, In the end, that kind of
is what it feels like it is. We feel depressed and now it's time to wild out. Yeah. It's like a better version of the
the witch trials. Yeah. Like a way better version. better version. The way better.
Yeah. So, the early instances of the dancing plagues were pretty limited in size and scope and they were again like
limited to specific locations, but then came 1374, y'all. Uh an outbreak of dancing mania started
in a German city of Aachen, I believe it is. Uh and it eventually spread to other
cities outside of Germany. So, it's happening. Dancing everywhere. Were they all happening at the same time? Was it
like Some of them were and then some of them would start at the end of the next one and it was just like a continuous
thing. Yeah, like a wave in a stadium. The outbreak of 1374, sometimes referred to as Saint John's dance, began like the
others. So, it was like a small group forming a circle in the town square starting to dance with each other. But
the thing that keeps happening with these is they start to dance and it's like fine. And then they get more
frenzied and it just like loses all control. And that's what They lose control of their senses. They don't care
who's near them. They are like whirling around like looking like they're in like
a state of just like ecstasy. Like it's like a rave. Yeah. Like a straight up rave. I was at a show
like last year. It feels similar. Yeah. [Laughter] Some would dance for hours. Some would
dance for days at a time not stopping. Not not stopping to eat, drink, sleep, piss, anything. Damn. So, there's the
there's the answer. Yeah, there we go. And when they did finally stop, the dancers all spoke of
some undeniable compulsion to dance. And then they would complain of extreme oppression and groaned as if in the
agonies of death. What? And then they would groan until they were swathed in clothes bound tightly
around their waists. What? Well, they're I feel like they probably were aching from dancing.
Yeah. Never take a Zumba class? It's a lot. It is. You know? You need one of those
little roller ball things. Yeah. Just get it all out. Yeah. Or that little machine we have that can
like like get out that thing. a tight muscle out. Yeah, yeah. So, a short time later, the dancers'
pain would subside cuz they would get the roller ball or do whatever they needed to do when they finished Zumba.
And they remained pain-free until the next compulsion came over them and then it would keep happening. Like they would
go through periods of time where they were fine and then they just start dancing a fool again.
Oh no. Did it Was there a Did they say they enjoyed the dancing when they were doing it or was it
I think they were in like a trance. So they I don't think they could even remember.
know. They just felt the pain afterwards. Which sucks. Yeah. But within a few weeks that plague, the
Saint John's dance plague, had spread to Liège, Utrecht, and Tongres. Those places. Those places. And then
further out to towns in Belgium and the Netherlands. Wow. And according to one account, they
danced together ceaselessly for hours or days and in wild delirium. The dancers collapsed and fell to the ground
exhausted, groaning and sighing as if in the agonies of death. And many later claimed that they had seen This is
literally my favorite thing I've ever heard, by the way. So excited. Many of them claimed that
they had seen the walls of heaven split open and that Jesus and the Virgin Mary had appeared before them. Were they
dancing? No. Were Jesus and Mary dancing? That would be fun. I would love. I cannot say.
But the walls of heaven split open during this dancing plague. just have to dance your way into heaven.
That's all. That's it. I feel like that's actually probably true. Yeah. Yeah. That's Damn. It seems like a a reaction
to whatever their whatever their religious and and so yeah, yeah, they're like they're like,
"Okay, we have to chill, but if we just go freak out Hell yeah. and we can we can claim we're we're on our we're we're
seeing heaven. They're like, guys It's a It's a religious pop we're following. They're like, Jesus and Mary are over
here. Like they came and they're like, "Let's go." They're joining this the ring of sin,
whatever it was. if the priest joined in at that point. They're like, "Is this how we do it?" Is
this how we do it? That's how fun mass turned. Jesus and Mary are here, you say? Yeah.
So for the next 100 years, people in Germany and surrounding countries would periodically fall into these trances and
manias. 100 years? Yeah. In 1491 set This is literally my favorite thing ever, by the way.
In 1491, several residents of a nunnery, here we go, in the Habsburg Netherlands
were overcome with the compulsion to dance. But this time it wasn't just dancing. So
there were some that just like were getting their groove on. And then they would also be accompanied by instances
of nun Hold on to your habits. Oh no. They would climb trees and behave like cats.
What? And they would all meow together. Brad. I love this. I hate that this wasn't on film. Climbing up the tree.
Climbing a tree. In a full habit. Like that's all I'm thinking of is like full nun gear. Just like lifting up a tree
and being like, "What?" What the [ __ ] I love it. Um also in this delirium, it gets it gets racy cuz they would
sexually proposition the priest. Iconic. And then it got better cuz the priests were like, "No, no." And they
would call exorcists to be like, "Clearly this demon's afoot." And when the exorcists would come, the nuns would
sexually proposition the exorcists. I'm obsessed with it. I don't know why I love it so much.
Let them live. Yeah. Like And like the people in 11th century Germany, the nuns' affliction was
believed to be a curse, obviously, brought by Saint Vitus. And it was apparently supposed to be in response to
the supposed moral laxity and split from the church of the period. Uh were like, "Now we now we've got our
answer." Here it comes. So that's what that And I guess other su um supernatural suspects in the case that
were brought up were Saint John the Baptist, demons as a whole, Of course. any demon will do,
The hierarchy of demons. and Satan himself. Oh [ __ ] Yeah. The which apparently some of the nuns,
while they were sexually propositioning the priests and the exorcists and not getting any, they were getting pushed
back, they were like, "Well, that's fine because I have also [ __ ] Satan. So Like they were literally being like
Would the nuns would say that? were literally I don't Probably not like that. They probably ended up
saying it. Maybe. They've had relations with the devil. Wow. Basically. Yeah, so they were claiming
it. Like, "Let's go, girls." When it was over, were they allowed to stay in the nunnery or were they were they exiled?
That's a great question. I don't I don't think they were exiled. But perhaps they
were. I feel like when you say you [ __ ] the devil, I feel like that's your time to step out. Steered out,
yeah. I don't think they're going to Find a new path in life. Yeah. I don't think you get like a This is one strike
Yeah. like kind of thing. Now, in the 15th century in German, this is another nunnery because this is
awesome. One nun started biting the others. Mm. Was she dancing first or she just
started biting? involved. Was she one of the cat nuns? That's She was not one of the cat nuns.
This is a different nunnery. Okay. starts biting the other nuns and then they were all like, "Wow, that sucks.
Like don't do that." And then Direct quote. Yeah, they were like, "Wow." Direct quote, on the record. "That
sucks. Stop doing that." And then one of them was like, "Well, I guess I'll just
bite you back." Which like Fair. Yeah. Like if she's still biting you Don't bite me. Bite her back. And one of them
bit her back and then they all started biting each other. Oh wow. And then they were just rapidly biting it. Like all of
them just started biting each other biting the priests. I guess they brought the priests This is not a sanitary time.
It's never a good time to bite anybody, but that's bad. Are they still dancing while they're biting? That's the
question. like dancing may not have been a part of this one. It might have just been a biting Interesting. but it would
be really funny to think of them dancing and biting. Get their groove on. Just great. And every once in a while the
beat drops and they bite someone. Yeah. Yeah, so then word spread about this affliction cuz people were like, "Whoa,
have you heard of this?" These nuns go crazy. And the affliction started spreading. The biting one. Yeah.
Now the biting one's going. We got a lot going on. Apparently nunneries in Sachsenburg and Brandenburg, you know,
Holland, now even Rome. Oh wow. It all biting each other and biting the priests. And meowing. And meowing. There
was meowing as well. Awesome. And it only stopped and this is literally documented. It says it only
stopped cuz they got exhausted. Exhausted of biting each other? Just got tired. At some point you're going to get
tired. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder
how long. I know. How long can you bite someone? I don't know. Write in. More to podcast@gmail.com. Yeah, let us
know your experiments. after this airs these plagues begin spreading Cops imagine.
We're responsible. Now, by far the most notorious of the dancing plagues occurred in Strasbourg,
France in July 1518. This is the one that a lot of people know about. Okay. The event began pretty
innocuously. It was just a single older woman just going into the streets into the
city center. Her name was Frau Troffea. Love it. That's how I say it. Yeah. Um she's
walked out and she was like, "Let's do this." And she just started dancing. Said, "Let's dance." Let's go. Yeah, she
was the David Bowie before David Bowie. Yeah, hell yeah. That's where David Bowie came from. He came from a dancing
plague. A nunnery of dancing, yeah. A dancing plague in a nunnery. Canon. That is where David Bowie came from. He came
from a dancing plague. It was Frau. So by mid-August and she wouldn't stop, of course, cuz that's how these work.
She had a plague. By mid-August, hundreds of people had joined her in the town square. Again, a flash mob. All of
them uncontrollable and like the previous ones, the dancers in Strasbourg never stopped to eat,
never stopped to drink, sleep, nothing. Not long after the mania began, quote, "As many as 15 people a day dropped
dead." Oh my god. What a way to go out, though. I mean. It seemed like I mean, there are a lot of ways you could die
back then, but it seems like dancing would have been one of the better ones. I would choose dancing.
It's like real plague or dancing plague? I'm picking dancing And they just kept going. So people
would be dropping dead and they were still dancing. It's not like they stopped and were like, "Pause. Like
let's get this one out." Nope. They just danced. People dropping. Wow. Yeah. And unlike many of the earlier dancing
plagues, which were recounted a lot like they they would kind of change over time
like folklore, this one, this particular one in 1518, was very well documented. Like it's a real event that is very
documented. It's appeared in everything from historical text, news accounts, church and medical documents. It's like
in a lot of things. And according to many of these documents, the women who start or the woman who started the
plague was brought to a church devoted to Can we guess? Saint Vincent. Saint Vitus. Oh, Vitus. My bad.
Maybe Saint Vincent, too. Who knows? Uh a few days after she started dancing, they were brought She was brought to a
church devoted to him and she was cured. Apparently. Well, and this is while the other people
are still dancing. They started They were like, "You You started this. We're going to take care of you, but
we're going to let the others go." Yeah, they're trying to chop the head off the snake and see if it all falls.
she stops. Yeah, she Maybe if Frau stops, no, they all just kept going. Cuz in the days
after that, others started joining more even. Like as soon as her absence was felt, they were like, "We need to beef
this up. Let's get more people in here." So in order to curtail the mania, the city forbade musicians to perform
publicly. Oh, boo. Which like that sucks. Lame. Yeah. Kind of a killjoy. And eventually started taking the dancers
one by one to the Saint Vitus Church to get treatment. And no matter how quickly
they removed the dancers off the streets to Saint Vitus's church there, they were
just replaced by new dancers. People would just show up. Like one leaves, five more come.
Yeah, they had alternates. See, they they had to cancel the musicians cuz they're like, "This is easy for us. We
can just go and we already have an audience." They're like, "Hell yeah, let's go."
I know. They were like, "We can really get big here." This is our spot. They're like running around the dancers
being like, "Listen to my demo." Like get a record deal out here. Now, in the decades and centuries that
followed this, dancing plagues continued across Europe with significant events occurring in the 16th and 17th centuries
in Switzerland and Italy. And there hasn't been like a really documented case of dancing mania in a lot of
centuries, but tarantism, which is like thought to be kind of similar, has been documented in Italy as recently as the
1950s. Oh, [ __ ] So. So, remind me, tarantism, it isn't dancing, but it's just sort of like
Okay. it is kind of dancing, but it's like a little different because they claim it's
from a spider. Okay. Like you get bit by a tarantula, which I didn't even know they had tarantulas in Italy. That was
news to me. I don't think I knew that, either. I don't know where I thought tarantulas
were. Australia. I think everything's Australia. Period. I can attest to Joshua Tree. Oh
my god, they're there, too? There was actually the last Jack's Mannequin record we al- almost named
tarantula mating season because we because we because we actually we rented a house in
Joshua Tree during tarantula mating season, and they were everywhere. Yeah, yeah, and I don't I mean, I don't
care for spiders, and big ones I care for less. And so, if you ever want to go get some tarantism,
I recommend Joshua Tree around October, November. That So, they were Were they like in the
house? There is I I wish I could find this video cuz there's a there's a video of me and two of my bandmates
running around the house screaming in like a high-pitched like trying to chase a tarantula out of the house.
How big? I mean, bigger than my hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're huge. Yeah. No, I'd just start crying and never
stop. Yeah. That's the thing, I don't cry easily. No, you don't. start sobbing uncontrollably if I saw a
tarantula. Yeah, 100%. I'd cry easily. And in my house, I'd never sleep in there again. It's my understanding
they're not that like I don't know that the big ones are that bad. No, I don't think they really do much.
Yeah, but but they they don't They don't look They don't look like any anything you want to spend time with. It's
unfortunate for them. I know. I feel like up close, aren't they really cute? Like their faces?
are kind of cute with like a magnifying glass. I never found them cute. You're like, maybe. He said, "Actually, no."
my thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's in in Australia, the huntsman spiders. My TikTok has figured out that I hate them,
but that I will watch a whole video about one, so it just keeps giving me huntsman spider
videos. And apparently, you can hear huntsmans walking down the hall. No, they're so big.
And I was like, that's all I need to know. I can't ever go to Australia. Not for me. Ever. I'd die. And people
have like house huntsmans where they're just like, "Oh, that's just like Leroy."
No. He just lives here. He takes care of the bugs. I'm like, "Who takes care of him,
though?" Like who? He's lawless. You get like you're like, "He takes care of like the mosquitoes." I'm like, "I
what?" I'd rather get bit by a mosquito than live with Leroy. But like, I can't You
can't look like that, though. Oh, I can't. I cannot. So, yeah, if you ever want that, go to Joshua Tree, apparently
during mating season. Yeah. Uh now, people obviously blamed all these manias on either the spider or the devil and other
supernatural [ __ ] for all the dancing plagues, but lots of religious intervention was obviously brought in to
treat them. You know, exorcisms and the like. And in cases where the dancers This is interesting. So,
cuz this is kind of very like um like regional. So, it's like they would do these things where it's like the the
treatments for it were very regional to what they were thinking or believing in that place. But when the dancers were
foreign, like not of that area, the regional cultural differences would uphold the belief in demonic possession.
So, like it would always go back to demonic possession. But according to Robert Bartholomew, {quote} "The behavior of
these dancers was described as strange because while exhibiting actions that were part of the Christian tradition,
other elements were foreign." And he points to one account that says, "In their songs, they uttered the names of
devils never before heard of." This strange sect. How do you know what they were?
What? So, what do you How do you know they're devils, too? Maybe they're gods. Maybe they're angels. Yeah. Maybe
they're friends. Well, if you're dancing, the devil has to be a part of it. Several devils have to be a part of it.
Now, demonic possession was really the main suspect in the beginning, but in later plagues, the cause of the mania
would often be attributed because of obviously, we hear it in like the nunnery, into it would be attributed to
immorality and sin, particularly those in which the dancers were overtly sexual or predominantly performed by women.
One description read, "They indulged in disgraceful immodesty for many women during this shameful dance and mock
bridal singing bared their bosoms, while others of their own accord offered their
virtue." Oh, honey. these ladies are out there just being like, "Come and get it." Ruining the
streets. Showing ankle. Showing ankle. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What is offered their virtue, though? What is the
What is the Literally showing ankle. Yeah, they showed their shoulders or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like,
"Do you want to hold my hand and dance?" And they're like, "Holy shit." You got to go to a nunnery where you can
start meowing and propositioning priests. Yeah. Now, in later years, such as, you
know, the dancing plague in Strasbourg, like the really famous one, the events were frequently kind of attributed to
madness and hysteria as a whole, especially when they were begun again by girls or women. Historian John Waller
says that there is considerable evidence that suggests the dancing plagues and the possession epidemics of Europe's
nunneries were in fact classic instances of a very different phenomenon, mass psychogenic illness, which is way
scarier to me. Yeah, I don't love that. Like if you're telling me a the devil came and made me dance, I'm like, all
right. That's fun. Like that happens. But like mass psychogenic illness? Ooh. What is
that? So, what's the definition of psychogenic illness, then? So, that's really like where the term mass hysteria
comes from where they can't pinpoint it. It's like In the Salem witch trials, they tried to blame it on like ergot
poisoning, like fungus on the on the like wheat wheat. Essentially. And it's causes, you know, some kind of food
poisoning that then leads to this like wild illness that everybody just Like psychosis. You're hallucinating or
something. Yeah, I think it's like It's like group think. Like I think it's really just You've seen instances of it
where like you can get people to do insane things if you just make it a group effort. And again, there wasn't a
lot to do back then. So, why not dance? Yeah, there really wasn't. And in the majority of cases of dancing
plagues, the years you were touching upon this before, the years immediately preceding the events were usually pretty
harsh. There was famine, natural disasters, social and political upheaval. In the case of Strasbourg,
there was a little thing called the Black Plague that was right before it. Right. So, it can be viewed as kind of
like an extreme reaction of like stress relief, like a reaction to trauma. trauma reaction. Yeah. So, we're all
going to start dancing soon. Like, you know, you can play the piano or you can start dancing uncontrollably for years
at a time. Yeah. Whatever works for you. Whatever whatever you feel. Report back.
Let us know. Uh but that yeah, that's my little my little my dance into And this is what the movie
Footloose was based on. That's the mic drop at the end of that, friends. But yeah, so if you start
dancing in the streets, people might start joining you, and then you could all die together. Yeah. So.
Don't take it to a bridge. There's that. Yeah, don't do that. Avoid bridges. Yeah, 12th century bridges are
are not the place to go. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so my question is did men ever participate in the dancing
plagues? They did. Yeah, they did. That's what makes it so funny. They're like, "Well,
women started it." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we just get blamed. Shut up. Yeah. I think And I don't even think it was
always women who started it. I think it was just like there was a lot of women. Yeah, especially in that in that era,
they were like, "We'll blame the We'll blame the ladies." If we're going to blame, it's either the devil, ladies, or
a combination of both, you know. And then in the nunneries, obviously, it was just it was all ladies. And the
devil. And the devil, yeah. Yeah, of course. They were having relations with the devil.
Was there any documentation of whether or not they were having fun? Oh, they were having fun.
It seems like it seems like it feels pretty awesome, to be honest. They were sliving.
Like especially in the nunnery scenario, I'm like, I think they just got bored. And then they were like, "Let's see if
these Let's see what we can get out of these priests." Like Let's climb a tree. some vows. I'm sure there were some hot
priests back then, so they're probably like, "Let's see if we can break some vows."
Yeah. Stroke the ego a little bit. When that didn't work, they were like, "Bring
on the exorcists. Let's see." Have a little fun. Yeah, and then they just gave it up.
Well, it's an easy out, too. It's like we can just claim that it was we were possessed, but we're having a great
time, and there will be some recourse, you know, we'll get back to normal eventually, but
We'll have our memories. Exactly. You can just leave the nunnery by saying you [ __ ] the devil. Yeah. Honestly,
the easiest way out. Actually. Easiest way to leave the nunnery, I got to say. That's That's how I get out of most
social situations. If I don't want to be there. Sorry, I can't make it tonight. Book signing's not going to work
tonight. I slept with the devil. I [ __ ] the devil. I got to go. My bad. I love it. All right. Well, this is a
weird shift now, but we're going to play some would you rather. Please say it's dancing plague related. It's not even
dancing plague related. I just Would you rather [ __ ] the devil climb the tree climb the tree and meow,
you know. I should have put some of those in there. Yeah. But you can both answer cuz I
didn't read these to you. So, would you guys rather be haunted by a ghost that only you can see or hear whispers that
no one else can hear? I'm going with the ghost. There's something about whispering that you can hear that feels
really ominous. At least they can be like, "Oh, there's my friend the ghost." Hopefully. Is it a friendly ghost? Do we
know? It's It's up in the air. Okay. It's up to you. It's up to you. It's your ghost.
I'd rather cuz in general I'd rather I'd rather be able to see it. If it's just whispering, I'm that that's
a that's another level for me. That'll drive you mad. I would definitely rather ghost cuz
whispering would drive I am very like you know I have misophonia. I get very annoyed with certain sounds over and
over again. So, that would piss me off. Like I'm just like, "Shut up." Whispering's on your list?
Ooh, constant whispering I think would make me crazy. I think it would make a lot of people
crazy. Misophonia or not. But seeing a ghost every now and then would just be like, "Okay." Yeah. You'd never feel
alone. Yeah, there you go. Perfect. You could tell them the big events in your Just call them my imaginary friend.
So you're like, "Oh, hey, you're here. Let me tell you something cool that happened today."
I think I agree with you guys. I'd take the ghost. All right, number two. Would you rather
live in a house that rearranges itself every night or in one where the doors occasionally lead to other dimensions?
Oh, two. Other dimensions. Yeah. Why? Rearranging my house every night would send me into orbit. Uh I
just nope. I'm a like comfort creature. You are. That would annoy this and I'm I'm a control freak. Mhm. Waking up to
having my house rearranged every morning would Would no sign off. But another dimension, let's go. Yeah,
I'm I'm there with you. I'm I'm like a I'm very type A and things are where they need to be.
And they're staying there. And they're not yeah, they're not moving. Don't touch them. And also like let's see
what's in the other dimension. I'm curious. I'm going house rearrange cuz I can put it back. I don't want to
go to I don't know what these other dimensions have in them. What if there's nuns meowing and trying to [ __ ] priests?
What if I fall in and I can't get back into my house to rearrange my furniture? You can't rearrange it every day cuz
it's going to get rearranged that night. Yeah, that's a lot of work. I know, but
dimensions are scary. It's bad to your floors. It is bad to your floors. That's that's real. If it's
a really if it's a really good interior designer who's rearranging the house, maybe it's a good
Yeah, see this is my scenario. It is. Yeah, you're like like that's a really nice new
configuration of the living room furniture. That helped the feng shui. Excited to
see what you do tomorrow. No, I that still even that wouldn't work for me. I'm too much of a control freak.
I'm sticking with it. I I believe in you. Thanks. All right, number three. Would you
rather live in a world where every book you open transports you into its story or where every movie you watch traps you
inside its universe until the movie ends? It's kind of like the same thing. Yeah,
I mean I think the longer the longer trip in the book is probably less of a vibe.
Depends on the book, I suppose. I can handle two hours in another world pretty easily. I've I've worked my way up with
psychedelics. [Laughter] That's the I've always want like every time I read a book, I'm always like,
"Ah, like take me with you." Like I just want to jump into the book, but now I'm thinking about it and I'm
like that's true. That would be a long a long Well, with some of the books that you all are reading for this podcast, I
would imagine those are not worlds that you want to spend a lot of time in. No. I'd like to pick and choose which books.
Definitely choosing the books. Yeah. If I'm jumping into every book I read, then that's a problem.
Same thing with movies cuz we watch [ __ ] up movies a lot. I don't want to go in some of them. That's true. It's a
hard choice. I think it's the I'm going to go with yours. The time crunch is what I if I know I have a finite time.
All right. That'll make me feel better. I like it now. Yeah, I got that. I was thinking cuz
when you're reading, you're kind of like making like your own visuals. So, it'd be kind of cool to see that. I haven't
done psychedelics, so that would be my way of doing it. That's the surprise for this episode. I brought some here.
Don't get the wrong idea. These are occasional. Yeah, that's a hard one. I think the
only like cuz again, I I've always wanted to jump into a book. Yes, I love books. But again, it's the time. I got
that. Cuz I'm also that way with like like everybody who listens knows I like I'm not good in social situations. So,
like going out but like out of social situation out, I always like to know There's an end yeah.
I need an end to it. So, yeah. I think the movie. Yeah, I got that cuz then you can pick like hour and a half, two
hours. Yeah, like I'm not going to jump into a Yeah, I'm not jumping into like You're
only watching short films from here on out. Exactly. Or I probably I probably would
jump into a Harry Potter Potter movie, actually. That sounds awesome. Which one? Yeah.
I'd jump in all of them. Let's go. Yeah, I love that. Definitely that just that cemented it for me. All right, last one.
Would you rather live in a world where night never falls, so it's basically just like eternal daytime, or in eternal
night where you would never witness the sun again? Obviously daytime. Nighttime.
I had a feeling you would go that way. Yeah, nighttime for sure. Yeah. I need the sun. Like I'm
I need the sun. It's the California in you. Well, yeah. Well, I was born out here. I actually was born in in
Massachusetts and moved across the country, but getting to California now it's like if I
when I tour in the wintertime, it's it's not good for me. If if it's dark for a long time, I lose
I lose my mind. See, and we brought you at the perfect time. It was sunny this morning. A little bit. When it glistens
in the snow, so it's pretty nice. amazing walk this morning. I was like I didn't feel cold and I I went and got
coffee. I was like, "Okay, this was cuz you told me you prepared me. You're like
there's no sun out here." And I was like, "I can handle that for two days." But two days is like my limit. And the
sun was like, "I'll come out for you." Just welcome to Boston. Cuz we have not had sun for weeks at this point. Yeah,
it's been dark. The sun doesn't like me very much. Sounds like you don't like it
either. And I don't like it. We have like a mutual disrespect for each other. Yeah,
I'm way too pale for the sun. I don't do well in it. Elena carries around a parasol in the
summer. Yeah. Really? Like a old girl parasol. I do not want to get burned. I don't I don't want and I don't want
wrinkles. Yes, and you're good. You know? It does we we have a mutual disrespect which became a respect. Do
you have a parasol collection? I only have one. You should have a collection. I should.
that idea. I also like a big wide-brimmed hat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like good morbid merch.
Parasol feels on brand to me. Mikey, write that down. Like he's already already done it. I got it. You also feel
like you're in a like another era when you carry around a parasol. Totally. Which is fun. I have a lot of admiration
for a parasol. Like when I see people out doing the parasol thing, I'm like I couldn't do it. Even when it rains, I
don't carry an umbrella. I'm just like, "Whatever, just get me wet. I'm fine." But but I the commitment to you know,
good skin and but I love the sun too much. I'm like I will look like a like a beat-up leather shoe
within the next within the next 10 years and I'm fine with it. I'm like when I see those guys on the beach and I'm just
like, "Yeah, that guy that guy did it." I'm like I'm like maybe you don't think this is
good-looking, but I'm like I don't I want to just look like a shoe. Yeah, I'm I'm fine with it. Yeah. Yeah, I just I
don't do well in the sun, either. Like I don't like hot. Like as soon as here I don't like hot. Like I as here, it's
like as soon as it gets in the 60s, I'm like this is my perfect weather. I can live in the 60s fall all day. Yeah. Like
I like that kind of sun. I feel like in the fall it's like a like a muted sun. I don't know. It has a
different vibe to it. I don't know how to explain it. No, I got that. And then as soon as it gets in the summer, it's
like this harsh sun that like I hate the look of it. I just don't like I don't know what it is. It's too bright for
you. I'm the opposite. I'll go to the desert in the middle of the summer when it's
like 113° and I'll just be in heaven. That's where we go. With a little folding mirror. No,
no, I never did that. I toured with a band once. The singer actually had one of those.
We'll never say who. Uh they're great and he he's great, too. But but I I remember walking outside and being like,
"That dude's doing like the grandma on the porch thing with the with the reflector."
You see like you don't think it's real. Yeah, I was like this is like this is a level of
commitment to tanning that I've never even imagined. But but I get cold so easily. I get cold very easily. Yeah,
and I'm just like I and I it's my least favorite feeling is being cold. Really? And my least favorite feeling is being
hot. Yeah, I'm I'm the opposite. I'm like hot I can handle. But not when I'm sleeping. Oh, I
have to be freezing when I'm sleeping. Me and my husband get in fights all the time. I've been turning off the heat
lately. He's like, "Stop doing that." It's like 60° in this room. I'm like I am the fan.
John's like, "Why? It's February. Like what I'm like, yeah." It's the science backed that you sleep better when you're
cold. It's true. It's true. Yeah, I don't I my thought process about it is that you can only take off so many
layers Yeah, you can add so many more. peel my skin off. I could, but I'm not going to.
Uh you can put on I mean I guess I could. I'm an autopsy technician. I know how to
flay back skin. Could you bring yourself to do it, you think? Absolutely not. No. I thought you
were going to say absolutely. I was like, "Whoa." Not to myself. To a dead person I can. Well, yeah, you you have.
Yeah. But I'm like We should have just done a turn. I like it. I'm like, wait. But, you can't take off all the layers
to get cool, but you can put on all the layers to get I I mean, it's a it's a sound logic. It's just one I don't
follow at all. It's okay. We diverge here. That's fine. It's like we got the office, we have parks, we have all the
things. This is where you diverge. It's okay. We'll just be friends in different
continents. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll just stand in the middle of you. I like both.
I came to you in winter, so here we are. That's true. That's how we know we're friends.
Exactly. That's the last one. I pick eternal night cuz I'm a night person, but I I still like the sun, so I'd be
like a little bummed, I think, but Yeah. But, you know, yeah. I just also love the night.
Well, yeah. That's what I That's how I feel. Did you watch Night Country? Did you Did you I did. I have not. I think I
could vibe. That was Yeah, that it was great. It was. It was really good. But, even me, I was like, this is
horrible. It can't be dark every Every episode is dark every episode. It's when like it's that part of the country that
it like goes into night for 3 months. Oh, I think I would thrive. I think I would do okay. Yeah. Not me. Yeah. No. I
would be I It'd be over in one season for me. Yeah, I would be in a desert. Yeah, yeah, I
would have I would have lost my mind. There's also like a a reverse of that that happens where it's like 3 months of
light. That would kill me. I've been to Alaska when it it was in that that period That would be bonkers. It was it
I mean, it was it was hard to sleep Yeah. for sure, but it was pretty cool to go outside when it was like 2:00 in
the morning, and it's like, oh, it's daytime. Yeah, I mean, it would be like dusky, you know, but it was it was
it was pretty cool. That would I feel like that would like [ __ ] up your circadian rhythm.
It totally does. Yeah. The other way would, too, obviously. So, that wouldn't be great. Yeah, you
got to be strong to live out there. Damn. Yeah. Do you live out there, anyone? Write in.
Lots of emails coming I know, suddenly we're really calling for emails since we said
Well, that was fun. That was fun. that. Thanks for inviting me. I had a blast. Thanks for coming. Thanks for
coming We learned a lot. Oh, and check out the Dear Jack Foundation. If you want to say
anything about that before we leave. Uh yeah, I mean, so Dear Jack is uh it's a nonprofit I started years ago on
the heels of my survivorship with leukemia, and and so we advocate for adolescent and young adults, so people
15 to 39, which is like a for years has been a really forgotten demographic of of cancer patient and survivor. Um and
so yeah, we build programs for for this group specifically. We do retreats for um couples that are entering
survivorship, and we also do a wish-granting program for uh for young adult cancer patients. So, um yeah,
please just go to dearjackfoundation.org if you want to learn more about what we're doing, or if you happen to have a
friend or be going through the cancer journey yourself. Um We have a lot of support services and and ways to kind of
link up with you and try to make the journey easier. Hell, yeah. I love it. So, go check it out.
Yeah. Perfect. And you guys, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep weird, but not so weird that if you
haven't already listened to something Corporate Slack's Mannequin and Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness, you don't
check it out. [Music] [Music] [Music]

Weirdos! Today we've got a special guest -Andrew McMahon of 'Something Corporate', 'Jack's Mannequin', and 'Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness'. In addition to heating about his journey as an artist, Alaina dives into some dark history and tells us about dancing plagues and other instances of hysteria.

Want to check out Andrew's music, or purchase merch or tour tickets? Visit https://andrewmcmahon.com/

Don't forget to check out the 'Dear Jack Foundation' which provides impactful programs benefiting adolescents and young adults diagnosed with cancer and their families. For more information visit the foundation's website at https://www.dearjackfoundation.org/ .

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

Andrew McMahon discusses his music journey and the historical phenomenon of dancing plagues.

Key points

Andrew McMahon's Musical Journey. Andrew discusses his evolution as a musician and the challenges of staying relevant.
The Story Behind 'Me and the Moon'. Andrew reveals the eerie inspiration behind his song, blending personal experiences with creativity.
The Ring Dance of Sin. A group of townspeople danced so fervently that they ignored the priest's reprimands, leading to a curse of endless dancing.
The Curse of the Priest. The priest cursed the dancers to continue until Christmas, leading to exhaustion and even death.
Dancing Mania Spreads. In 1374, a dancing mania outbreak in Aachen spread to other cities, causing chaos and frenzy.
The Nun's Biting Affliction. Nuns in a Habsburg nunnery began biting each other, leading to a bizarre outbreak of biting mania.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is the thing. Writing songs became my whole life.

Andrew McMahon reflects on how songwriting helped him process grief.

1:23WatchMar 3, 2025

Tension

45/ 100Some tension

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