Murder in Alliance /// Part 2 /// 521 | Forensic Files

when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details dreaming of
overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've
tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are game changers dive into
25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime
membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save 50%
[Music] [Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man you gave a cookie so
he got you a cookie here is the captain you gave me Cookie I got you Cookie you gave me Cookie I got you Cookie it's
good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a Frank today we are still sipping on
green slush made by Wy Roots Brewing Company tall cans in the air green slush has an ABV of 4.6% and it's a sour ale
with watermelon drink mix don't ask what that means just enjoy garage grade 4 at
of five bottle caps and who is Raising those tall cans in the air with me well it's some of our good friends right here
first up and Captain you will like this one we have a cheers to Jolene from Payton Manning's favorite City Omaha
Nebraska and a big shout to Laura from Salem Oregon next up we have a double cheers to Scott and Lacy drinking it up
in Madison Indiana and a big shout out to Christina and udica New York next we have a big cheers and a Ron Swanson
please and thank you that goes out to Diane in San Francisco and last but certainly not least we have Brandy from
a dry county in Arkansas everyone we just mentioned they helped us out with this week's beer fund and we thank you
yeah be w r beer Ron get you some get you some more True Crime garage by going to our website truecar.com and signing
up for our bonus show called off the Record if you're nasty and that is enough of the business all right
everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some True Crime today's date is July 14th 1999 Wednesday
it's 1309 hours my name is detective Bud Samson we're in the Rena Police Department interview room along with me
is detective William mucklo and detective John leech of the Alliance Police Department also in the room is
Joseph [Music] Isaac can you tell us your [Music] murder in I'll you and I didn't care about life no more
and David knew about it and he took advantage of me and were you having some hard times that I lost my family I lost
all my friends I lost my little brother and sister I lost everything I had nothing anymore
where was her body found the living room so when you walk up the stairs from the
entry room she's right there at the top of the stairs so if everything is as it should be we have a baby up the next
floor up in her room we have two of the children locked in their rooms for the night and then we have Vinnie who may
have been in a crib or in a sleeping situation or may have been roaming the house when whoever came and we don't
have any sign of forced entry so either this person had access to the home or the door was unlocked or yavon knew the
individual and invited them in the way that things were found inside the residence almost would give the
appearance that someone was there with her and things were going smoothly up into the point of of her
murder yeah there's the the is it the dining room table or one of the tables almost has the appearance that two
people may have been sitting there discussing something or sharing cigarettes yeah yeah and then we have we
have the this is a a a very interesting angle of this case too is that the killer
either knew or felt comfortable enough that either a none of the children would be able to identify them or B none of
the children saw what they did and left all the children unharmed yeah and actually not only were
they unharmed but the the other thinking is that Vinnie always slept in his diaper
and Vinnie was fully dressed when he was found he was not covered in blood you know assuming if he was crawling around
and found his mom he'd be covered in blood he was fully dressed which he cannot do himself again he has a severe
disability he could not dress himself so the thinking has always been that somebody took care of and dressed Vinnie
so not only did they not harm the children but took care of one of the children which is yes A possibility one
and but two could just be happen stance that for whatever reason he was dressed still dressed from from the night he
could have been and just never made it to her body to get you know blood I mean but that's the thing too like there was
you know I stress a lot in the season the crime scene and how how brutal it is and that is 100% not for any kind of
shock value it is because the crime scene is so important to who did this I mean when you look at it it is so
gruesome and bloody and there is overkill I mean the TV was thrown on top of her um a dresser and a TV were thrown
on top of her after this person decapitated her anyone who's looked at it has said well this wasn't a hit this
looks personal this is so over kill en so that's why you know I talk a lot about the crime scene because it looks
so personal so it's and then when you think about that if you think okay this is someone who knew her they were angry
at her maybe it was a father of one of the kids maybe this person did know Vinnie really well so a lot of her
immediate family were looked into and surprise a lot of them had reason to kill her her dad was allegedly sexually
abusing her and her sisters for years and she thought that he was doing it to her kids too you know her mother-in-law
hated her because she was taking the welfare checks from Vinnie and the Mother-in-law was taking care of her so
when you look at this crime scene it does not look like someone was hired to kill her it looks like somebody who knew
her did this and took care of Vinnie on their way out well they even suspected David's girlfriend for a while right
because yes because you have this situation where you're dating this guy now he's having a baby with his X is
kind of a odd situation yes and we get into Amy in in the coming episodes but you know Amy is interesting because her
and Yvonne hated each other obviously they're both you know in love with the same guy and there's kids involved but
you know the thing has always been is Amy would actually be the last person that was able to get into ivonne's house
because if Yvonne even saw Amy at her doorstep everyone who knew Ivonne was like oh no she would have beat the [ __ ]
out of Amy immediately she wasn't getting in the house so it's just really interesting Amy of course had a motive
but would she even be able to get in the house and then we go back to this hole we find out she's a sex worker that
could be why there's a lock on the door to lock the kids in so they don't walk out on something right um so did she
have one of her John's over that night there's just so many people and it's yes Joe sounds convincing and yes this could
be what happened but then when I look at the crime scene and I just again go no no way this was
Joe this was someone she was sleeping with or somebody that she already has a baby with it wasn't Joe hired as a hit
it's it's very confusing well there have been people that have said that the way
that they found the crime scene as you said the TV thrown on top of her there what there was a bookshelf overturned as
well it was there was a TV on top of a dresser so the dresser and the TV were on top of her okay so somebody attempted
to to probably in one foul swoop I imagine try to throw of those items tip them over on top of her at the same time
and some have speculated look that might be somebody who's trying to make it the
crime scene have the appearance of a struggle to me I look at that and say no this is somebody that wanted to destroy
this woman that slitting her throat was not good enough watching her expire in just a matter of seconds on the floor
there was not good enough they had to take it a step further and throw these heavy items onto her body as it lie
there lifeless already and you know we we have a certain a certain understanding of and rightfully so
descriptive way of hate crime but one thing that gets lost sometimes in these murder cases is the individual that
kills the victim nine times out of 10 hates the victim hates the victim to the point of
Destruction for whatever reason something happened they feel wronged they feel challenged or or or any number
of scenarios can play out but in that moment In the Heat of the Moment that individual hates the victims so much so
that they want to kill them they want to destroy them and that's what I see when
we're talking about this crime scene here that it was somebody was in such rage that they they took this extra step
it was unnecessary to kill her you know because she's already dead it was unnecessary to
do any of these these further actions before leaving the home let's stay on eyewitnesses because there was wasn't
there another possible eyewitness we talked about the children we we talked about the other eyewitness but there was
another eyewitness that that saw a man and the description sounds somewhat similar to to the to the other one I'm
just a little confused on on what time and where this falls into the the timeline of the 31st than the first yeah
so this this guy very similar he was another neighborhood guy who again just went to the police and said hey look I
think I saw this might be helpful it was actually the night of the murder he said
around Twilight he was walking his dog so who the hell knows what Twilight means he saw a man trying to get into
the house and that's really all we know we know that the police also took him to uh kind of relaxation therapy that
they also took George to to try and get them to remember what they saw George said it seemed more like an
interrogation he kind of seemed like he was hooked up to a lie detector test so they did the same thing with this
witness and nothing came of it um again this was not given to the defense in in Discovery so this was another Brady
violation what we do know about that night is she did have quite a few visitors I mean her house was not this
home that no one went to this quiet mom with you know kids it was really a high trafficked home you know her dad was
there that day we don't know where he was that evening uh we do know he he puts himself there that day we know that
around 5:30 her neighbor was there he was someone who was seen with her he said he went on a bike ride afterwards
um you can't really account for that so that's already two people we know were at her house that day that you know we
don't know where they went afterward at the time of the murder according to Joe he was there that evening so was this
guy one of them was it a different guy that the neighbor saw trying to get into the home around Twilight it just raises
so many questions yeah but the eyewitnesses that are not connected to the family they're just neighbors or
passer buyers they're all putting these individuals well below six foot yeah so the yes so both um George hail and this
other man two separate Witnesses two neighbors don't know anybody involved in this case
say that the the guy trying to get into the home or the guy leaving the home was
about 5'8 dark hair yeah I mean that wouldn't be Joe either way assuming that you know that what they saw actually
happened so George hail was on the stand for the postconviction hearing when they
went back to court for the Brady violation for George hail and on his cross is when he kind of came across as
a weak Witness I I personally don't think George hail is but cross-examination can always Shake
people and basically on the cross the prosecution got him to say he just didn't know if the man was leaving her
house or if he was just he he couldn't for sure say if he was leaving the house or not I believe George I've I've seen
his interviews with you know reputable investigative reporters who have looked into this case I his story has always
been the same and I I do think he saw somebody leaving the house that morning um whether it was the murderer whether
it was someone who had some kind of appointment with her that morning and stumbled in and found her dead body and
was like oh crap um but I do believe George saw somebody leaving that house after she was dead and Twilight
typically is I I think everybody has a little bit of a different definition for what TW Twilight is it's one of those
things that you hate to hear a witness say because it it could mean different things to different people but I always
think of it as like the time of when I can no longer see the sun in the sky but there's still it's still light out so
around sunset or or slightly just after which is interesting because that plays to the the 7 PM I always thought it was
a teenage vampire movie the time frame at the at the earlier part of that time frame but Team Edward how else are they
coming up with that 7 P.M is it is it because there is somebody that says they spoke to yavon
what it 5 or six o'clock that night so that was the neighbor that was seen with her at 5:30 yeah okay yeah and then but
he's a bit wasn't he a bit of a creep himself yes okay um he's definitely an odd guy we talked to him in the podcast
but you know we don't really we don't we do not think he was involved um again this looks like Overkill I mean he's a
tiny little guy he's weird I just don't see we just didn't get that from him what is his motive what would he be so
pissed off about yes maybe he was a peeper but other than that I mean the guy has no record he just seems like he
still lives in the same house I mean if you murdered this girl you would think he'd probably leave I mean there was
just many reasons to make us think like you know he probably wasn't involved and
I'm with you I don't think he lines up and I find it interesting that he speaks with you guys all these years later it
doesn't seem like he's dodging anything here hasn't moved away but I will throw this out there when we go into motive
and things of that nature is I have seen in more than one case where we have an individual that is
very much like this that did commit the crime and what where I'm going with this
Maggie is that this guy would see men in and out of yvon's home all hours of the
day and then he's over there gets inside she's invited him in she rejects him and
then his mind goes to she doesn't say no to anybody else why is she saying no to
me what is wrong with what is wrong with me and then it then he turns on her so I've seen that in some cases I'm not
saying that's the situation here we know that yavon could be described as promiscuous I'm not saying that there
were men coming in and out of her house at all hours of the day although it seems like that may have been the
situation yeah yeah exactly and you know we think about that too with Joe maybe that Joe did do this and he also got
pissed that she rejected him and he just kind of lost it the interesting thing and I'm curious to hear what you guys
think is you know I guess we could put Jim aside the neighbor but I want to talk about Joe because I don't know as
much about Jim I just know he doesn't have a record I mean everything we know about Joe is he is this kind person yes
he's troubled but it never seemed to manifest in a violent deviant way um Joe's friends said he didn't even really
do drugs I mean he smoked weed and drank um so you know he's this kind nice kid would he suddenly just snap and become
this rageful killer when he had nothing like that in his past I'm just curious to hear your thoughts well he has a lot
of trauma in his past so to me that would give him the capability the thing I can't get over
with with Joe is um a couple things one the confession before he talks to police because he's basically telling
people I did this before he even talked with police yeah um allegedly did I put that I put that in the podcast I
couldn't remember well and maybe that's something that we need to to address here if if you're able to is what would
be the motivation of this Miss Moore and Mr Campbell for their statements that we
spoke with Joe wils on the day of the murder and and he says I'm I'm here to you know I've been hired to kill someone
for for whoever but what would be their motivation for their statement because the captain's absolutely right that's
that's how they find Joe wils and that's something that if if he did tell them that it's very difficult for anybody to
go he told somebody that and then that night someone he knew was murdered y um I'm sorry but it it gets very difficult
to to get past that one it is not so much for David not so much for David Thorne because again there are a million
different scenarios that we could have Joe wils as the actual murderer here and David Thorne didn't have anything to do
with it and he just had the the worst luck in the world that he interacted with this guy and was friends with this
guy before and after absolutely I mean we we think about this all the time so Rose and Chris are interesting so I I
mentioned you know we rack our brains every day trying to think about what would their motive be we don't know one
of our hypotheses is you know Chris did get a lot of trouble with the law he was
actually arrested like a day or two after he told police about this you know we've we've speculated he could have
been an informant they just needed to lean on him for this and Rose was his girlfriend friend and he just told her
to shut up and just stick to the story and whatever you know it could have been any sort of combination of that I I
don't know what their motive would have been I don't know if they lied what I do
know is that their stories are odd there they change a lot between no it was definitely not a pocketknife and then by
trial it was a pocket knife I find that something really difficult to get around
how do you mistake an 8 in Blade and then suddenly a PO it's a pocket knife you know specifically mentioned a sheath
I think that's weird his clothing changed colors they say he was in a white Nike tracksuit at the mall um the
pants that he found were black that doesn't bother me as much you know people can mistake colors all of our
memories are not perfect but you know there are just weird things about them in Joe's confession he never mentioned
seeing them he says I was at the mall and blah blah blah they specifically asked did you tell anybody about this so
it's weird it's it's just weird it's one of those Mysteries that I don't know if
we'll ever have answers to what happened at that at the mall and if they lied or
why they lied if they did well when they they come forward it's three months later so it's it's easy to go okay maybe
they didn't remember what color pants the guy was wearing it's it is weird that that Joe isn't a little more
upfront about having talk to somebody that night when he seems to be giving the police everything else that they're
asking for during the course of that confession the one thing though that I find interesting is do you see is there
a road that investigators could take that somehow leads them to Joe wils through
David Thorne and then now 3 months later we have to we can't say oh we we found Joe
wils by this Avenue we need to create an Avenue that led us to Joe wils because what the jury is going to see in this
case if David would have had a good defense team it would have it should have been pointed out that look for
three months these guys had nothing and they tried to build a case against David
Thorne and they couldn't so you as jurors have to ask yourself why if David is so damn guilty here why did they have
nothing for three months and so now we have this I mean and here's where I'm going with this mag I wonder phone
records Joe wils does he use his name when he checks into the hotel that night it you know there are ways that could
lead you to Joe wils as an investigator that that later you can go back and say you know what Chris Campbell you're not
such a good guy why don't you help us out and we'll help you out a little bit at the same time because we need
somebody to tell us about this Joseph wils guy exactly oh and that that girlfriend of yours that uh can you
think you can get her to go along with your statement well that's the thing too they knew that they were at the mall
that night and and it's just so interesting because Joe has never denied seeing them but he
has said it was just a casual conversation you know it wasn't something that stuck out to him when
he's being interrogated by the police and telling them every accounting of his day so it's just I and I'm with you on
that maybe that's exactly what it was that's why you know we have really been looking into was Chris an informant of
some kind did he have relations with the police could they have leaned on him it's all possible there's so many
possibilities in this case yeah the other thing that bothers me is the child when he says that he saw Jeremy or or
what was the other name Jimmy or Jimmy sounded like he gave two or three there was another name yeah they were all J
names right which goes along but it wasn't Joe yeah but it goes along with Joseph where maybe he just can't
remember I know it started with a J so it's Jeremy or you know or whatever it is so I
think that has always bothered me and that's very interesting Captain because we know by Joe's own statements that he
had seen he had been to yavon at least once maybe twice is that right Maggie no more than maybe
two times according to him three times if we include the murder yeah it's one of those kind of murky murky areas so
Captain might be hitting on something here with this child may be trying his best to help but because he's only met
this guy once or twice or or you know maybe he's having trouble placing the name and and he's getting close with the
Jay names and uh that's a very interesting thing I absolutely agree with you guys I don't think we can
really you know just brush aside what Vinnie said and I think you know every one of these things on its face is not
you know major but when you put them all together it's it's really um confusing I'd say
well I have a questionus I have a question for you Joe has recanted his confession
before is that is that when he's recanting the confession is he saying I I wasn't there I didn't murder
anybody no he's always put him there himself there he says he didn't do it he says he he walked in and she was already
dead and he panicked and [Music] left this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com garage today to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
hp.com garage dreaming of overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family
from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and
voice feedback to technology are game changers dive into 25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you
were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world
head to rosettastone.com now and save 50% major phone carriers make you sign contracts with rigid data plans to trap
you into a kind of forced phogy sounds pretty insecure if you ask me at Consumer Cellular we believe in a more
consensual and healthy form of monogamy free of contracts and more flexible to your data needs this way you stick
around not because we force you to with contracts and fees but because you love our phone plans like ardently love our
phone plans monogamously Consumer Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888
[Music] freedom [Music] so if he wasn't there with the purpose of being paid to commit a homicide why
in those statements is he there he at all one statement he went to invite her to a a hotel party in one statement
that's why he's at the hotel yes and another statement he's there to have sex with her again she could have rejected
him and he flies into a rage does something that he almost immediately regrets and and now lucky him see that's
one thing the other issue that I have with getting away from the possibility of Joe wils as the actual murder because
you know you said well he didn't have much of a record or didn't have a record and and he didn't do drugs yet by his
own admission in in that confession regardless of how they got to that statement it is still his sworn
statement at the time he says I did I did some drugs that night uh before going over there to kill her and then
later his own words again to save my own ass I said you know I had to tell them that David Thorne hired me and so it's
like is this guy smart enough and you said he's no dummy is he smart enough to be creating ways to save his own butt I
think so I was I was so high on these drugs when I killed her I didn't know what I was doing I was out of my mind
man oh and uh if that doesn't work and need somebody else to to save my butt I can blame some of this on David Thorne
and may maybe I called him the next day for for no reason other than because we were friends and and I know that maybe
they might be able to find he called David to confess called him to confess there's any number of things and we we
see if in fact all the things that everybody says about David Thorne and Joe wils relationship is true other than
this murder part given Joe's background and how he was raised and the horrible environments that he was raised in and
then David being a little older it looks like d David kind of takes him under his
his wing he you know we know David's a car guy he gives him some kind of junk car that that somebody like David could
fix up and that he would he would actually have a vehicle so he could get to and from a job and David says you
know like look I'm not doing I didn't do favors for this kid because because I hired him to kill my ex-girlfriend I did
favors for the kid because one I wanted to help him out but two I would help him
out and it would create inconveniences for me now now this guy's always reaching out to me can you drive me here
can you drive me to my I'm gonna lose my job if somebody doesn't take me there and you know I can get this kid a
vehicle for a few hundred bucks and it helps him out but ultimately helps me out as well yeah absolutely I I think
you know there there's so many possibilities and we haven't even gone into you know the fact that the cops the
cops didn't at the beginning think David actually had anything to do with this by
their own admission they went to the psychic I mean and that that is the biggest bombshell of this whole case is
what the police say to the psychic well let's let's Circle back to that Maggie before we get too far away from
something else that I'm very intrigued on I I I always love when we cover cases I I want to hear the suspects I want a
roll call of the suspects and let's start with the J suspects because we were talking about Vinnie trying to help
out saying I saw a Jimmy or a Jeremy or somebody with that sounding name hurt my
mom pushed my mom interestingly enough there is a Jeremy in this case and there's a Jimmy in this case who is the
Jeremy and how is he tied to our victim yeah so Jeremy is a family friend it's um Eric who's ivonne's boy Boyfriend
Baby Daddy it's his mother's boyfriend okay so Jeremy you know knew Vinnie very well actually
because Vinnie was living with him and Linda Vinnie was not in yvon's custody she pretty much gave Vinnie up at Birth
because he was disabled she couldn't really take care of him and she gave him to her her boyfriend's parents to take
care of so Vinnie was raised by Jeremy and Linda for the most part so he would know Jeremy if he saw Jeremy and one of
the names of Jeremy if the if there was a motive for Jeremy to be involved or have done this it would be simply all
tied to the boy Vinnie they're practically raising Vinnie the majority of the time not practically they are
raising him the majority of the time they're his main caregivers as it sounds to me yet yvon is getting the disability
checks from the state and she's using them to fund her lifestyle or raise her other children exactly well again I
think the whole idea of you know if she's having if she is a sex worker and having guys coming in and out of house
that creates a motive for almost any male that's in her life like you said they come on to her or they think well
she's uh saying yes to all these guys she'll say yes to me and if she doesn't there's a lot of guys that would go into
a rage and then the there also a Jim or a Jimmy in this right and that's the neighbor that we talked about Jim is the
neighbor who also knew the kids I don't know how well they knew him I mean According to Jim you know him and Ivonne
would just hang out outside in the yard sometimes and the kids would run around his yard because their yards connected
there was no fence between them so it seems like he knew the kids but certainly not on the level that Jeremy
did and if he were in fact the guilty party it would fall into what the captain was just talking about there
where this would be he had some kind of infatuation or obsession with with this I mean she was a very beautiful young
woman and again if you have a scenario where he thought they were friendly and all of a sudden she rejects him or calls
him a name or finds him inadequate or anything you have those possibilities one person that I want to hit on before
we get into the amazing wonderful Alliance Police Department and how fine and fantastic of a job they just
continue to do I want to talk about somebody that if in fact the things that I've heard about this individual on your
podcast make him probably the most disgusting and Despicable individual that's referenced so far I I understand
you have some episodes to get to but Sherman let's talk about Sherman because I have Sherman Sherman Sherman if I'm
looking at this case from a clean slate that's the guy that I want to talk to the most and the people around him are
the ones that I I want to ask about Sherman the most off the bat I've called him the number that I have for him isn't
working I've reached out to the kids to ask them you know for a number I have tried to reach him and I can't so um
Sherman you know again they're Jehovah's and they live a very quiet life but we have heard from her friends a lot of
horror stories about the abuse that he put her and you know very recently we heard from another close friend and her
sisters we believe were were also maybe abused by him sexually and we do know that Yvonne thought that it was possible
he was doing this to her kids and she actually set up a video camera in her house with tapes Eric's actual dad not
Jeremy Eric's dad Fred helped her set up videotapes AP es to try and catch Sherman in the ACT um this was Fred's
one of Fred's statements before he passed away so we have not been able to like a nanny cam type situ but of course
it was you know 1999 so it's like a giant camera that you could see in some of the crime scene photos on top of her
fridge and those tapes were collected and and Fred had asked for the tapes back and he never got them so we don't
know what's on those tapes they don't seem to exist anymore but um yeah you know Sherman to me too like you know
what if yavon was pregnant with kid what if one of these kids is Sherman's kid that that has certainly crossed our
minds that could be the reason why the one kid has certain disabilities and I mean anything is possible um you
know the more we've talked to people who knew her the more it seems like the abuse was pretty severe it seems like
you know even their mother probably knew in a lot of these cases they know and there's nothing they can do or you know
they're also abused you know again these are all allegations I'm not saying Sherman did this this is just what we
have heard from multiple people um and I we've thought about him as a suspect and
the thing that we just keep coming back to is I don't think that he would have wanted this attention they really seem
to recoil from it and not necessarily in a way of like we did this it seems like
they really just do not want this attention at all they have never spoken to Media they've never been a part of it
they you know kind of wrapped it up it was quiet and again that could be because he knows some dirty things are
going to lead back to him or again because they're quiet people and he just wouldn't murder his daughter because he
doesn't want all this attention is something we've really thought about I don't care who you are nobody wants to
be known as an you know an incest driven sexual predator and um so one thing that
we see here in this case is the potential of a possible cover up and the reason why I bring him up and you know
there's another cover up possibility that we're going to quickly get into and move along to here but with Sherman in
relation to him if there were to be another type of cover up if she was killed you know that's one of the
leading motivations for murder in anywhere is to cover up previous crimes and if in fact Sherman is guilty of the
rumor that you have heard then it seems to me like that would be something that he may want to cover up maybe he went
there that night to try to reason with her or threaten her to keep her quiet or to collect those tapes maybe she
threatened him that's one thing that I think we haven't really touched on much is yvon's personality she didn't seem to
me to be much of a a take a lot of [ __ ] kind of person no she actually she was
not um she was feisty would be a very polite and kind way of of describing her yeah
so so we have found out you know through our reporting that yvon was a scammer in
a sense she would Shake people down so the idea that you know she was threatening her dad to expose him is
very plausible uh maybe she did catch something on that camera and he went over again he puts himself there that
day I have no idea where he was that night of course we don't have any recorded interviews with him from the
police um so that's really helpful when trying to go back to this investigation there is not a single interview with him
so we don't really know where he was that night what he was doing at all and one thing that doesn't sit well with me
about Sherman and it's coming from law enforcement's own mouth when they went to talk with her mother they say even
now she's a shell of a individual and so if you happen to hear you know your husband say well that's it she's dead to
me and then you end up finding her dead the next day there's going to be doubt in your
mind so you know it's one thing to find your your dead child but then if you know on top of that that your husband's
responsible for it that put you in a very scary situation yeah I think Tanya was in a
scary situation before the murder too I think that was just a dark household you
know the abuse that she endured if it is true would certainly explain why you know she was allegedly so promiscuous
and having children at 16 a lot of it you know makes makes sense um she was sexually traumatized
and you know that that's that's often what happens but yeah so you know there's and I know this is what you want
to talk about you know there's no interview with Sherman because the police did a really not good job with
this investigation so yeah we can talk about that well yeah and real quick before we
move on in regards to the tapes if they existed or or what was on them we don't know as you said they we can't find them
uh today and one thing with those those tapes and yvon's personality and attitude and being a possible victim to
sh or maybe her her kids are victimized by this guy there doesn't necessarily have to be
anything incriminating on those tapes for him to want those tapes to go away bad enough to potentially do something
like this it could just simply be the threat of those tapes of her saying you know I got a video camera running in
here all the time you know I've been taping you while you're over here that doesn't necessarily have to mean that
that she caught anything on camera just that it was happening and he perceived the threat of being outed because of
that camera now just so we don't dance around the subject anymore why don't we talk about the alliance PD as it were
1999 and I understand that they've made a lot of effort to clean things up there
since then it but it was not the most well-run oiled machine back then as we would want it to be as Citizens and
taxpayers and a lot of that comes out in those tapes when we have detectives talking with the psychic and thank you
Maggie for including that in the series because that psychic woman just amazing she she's looking at these detectives
and going why haven't you guys looked into this why is yavon hanging out with so many cops why is she friends with so
many cops why are there so many married offic offers Married with Children officers that seem to be friendly with
her some have some kind of relationship with her yeah these cops mlo and Samson never thought the these tapes would see
or hear the light of day ever ever ever ever this was one of the Brady violations at trial this was never
presented it was hidden they got it in the post conviction and the the tapes actually I got the attorneys never had
the tapes that I know of they have the transcripts so this is the first time anyone's hearing the tapes and it's just
it's like you said the psychic I mean it's just jaw-dropping at what they are telling the psychic about their own
department and people that they had heard officers were sleeping with her you know for money um and she asked if
they ever looked into any of these people and they're like no did you look into you know the dad no did you look
into Jeremy well I guess we should do that they honed in on David and it seems like they really we don't have a formal
interview with Jeremy don't have a formal interview with Jim we don't have formal interviews with any of these
officers that were allegedly sleeping with her half of these we don't even have interviews with so if they spoke to
them where is that why would you not speak to her father that you tell this psychic was abusing her um it's just
mindblowing that the entire case File is David and then Joe and you know so the department at the time um I do a
whole episode on this because it's you know I could do five episodes on it um in
1998 the chief chief black and eight officers were fired for severe corruption for stealing guns drugs and
money from the evidence room and your guess is as good as mine as where the guns drugs and money were going when
they were stealing it so you know at the time of her murder the department is in chaos there are
still folks that are you know seriously corrupt who just were not caught and fired it was just it was it was
incredible what was happening at the time in the department and then this young mother is murdered and the
investigation was so poor it will just blow your mind I mean and to simplify it almost seems like law enforcement went
okay well it's either Eric or it's David and Eric's in jail so it has to be David oh wait David was at
at this uh wrestling class and there's he has a three count counties away and he has solid Alibi not just one person
multiple people and then they just kind of stop stop the investigation for three
months that's that's how the exactly that's how the case files are there's nothing from May there's nothing from
June whoop all of a sudden we have Joe wils in in July I mean I just think it's really bizarre what were you doing in
that time well and for those not familiar with the case we should point out here that David Thorne is at this
martial arts class this was routine this was a once a week thing that had gone on
for weeks prior to this this was not him going out of his way to be several counties away conveniently at the time
of the murder these guys it doesn't seem like they were starting a murder investigation it seems to me like they
were starting from scratch because they just didn't know what to do or how to conduct this type of investigation not
with any T kind of efficiency or thoroughness that's going to seal a conviction you hear the psychic when the
detectives give her information she's looking at them and you you can you hear it in the tone of her voice when she's
throwing questions back at them she's like you guys didn't look at that you guys didn't look at this you didn't you
you can tell she wants to look at these two guys and go is this your first day on the job did you did you just get
deputized this morning because uh all these things that are obvious to a psychic woman didn't appear to be
obvious to these detectives or they turned their heads away from it and did not want to look in those directions I
think I think that's you know we talk about this too is if someone else killed her the police
certainly had motive to cover it up because of whatever was going on with them they just wanted to brush it under
the rug and none of you know none of their sex with her or even maybe drug connections I mean the police tell the
psychic they found weed at the crime scene marijuana there is no marijuana in evidence where is that Mar Marana that
you allegedly found at this crime scene so whatever happened in this murder I think the police definitely wanted to
brush it under the rug very quickly um for their own sake well that's a good point too
because one of the things I wondered is we have this girl dead you know that there's officers that are having some
kind of sexual relationship with her at that point you either have to turn this investigation over to somebody else or
you have to figure out which officers are having a relationship make sure they have nothing to do with the case and
then when you say oh well they found weed and it goes missing well probably because she got that weed from a police
officer or there's some connection from that weed again and that's I mean they were literally stealing guns drugs and
money from the evidence room and like I said it's anyone's guess where that was going there's missing marijuana from her
house and I mean you put the pieces together it just is really shady it sounds to me like there's a portion of
their evidence room back in the 90s that was set items that are set aside for an
officer's only barbecue that was probably happening on the rig you know oh we got some weed and cocaine for free
oh you like collecting guns here you go buddy you know let's get together officers and wives only and let's have a
big blowout this wives sound like to me yeah regardless of where it came from or
how she got it but the the thing here too and I hate the term police cover up because I think it's way overused and
that takes away from the severity of the situation when you use a term way too much and use it when it's not necessary
in most cases they go oh well this cop knew the victim so clearly the whole Department's covering it up nay nine
times out of 10 what I've seen in these invest vations they don't mind busting and popping one of their own they want
to get the guilty party here this situation is unique because if what was going on that's been speculated if if
any of that is true they're not covering for the guy that actually killed her because of to to save his butt they're
covering for the whole departments they were doing committing yeah they were committing you know breaking the law
time and time again themselves and so they're covering their own asses by covering for one of their own if in
fact what we've heard has been true yeah no exactly and that's the thing it's so
messy could that guy that have been seen that morning been a cop like George Hil
said sure and he was just you know cleaning up some stuff because he was like oh [ __ ] if there is drugs and stuff
in here we got to get rid of it because it's coming back to us you know it's like all everything is possible I think
what I see here look there again there's no smoking gun that tells me that David
is 100% innocent I strongly question the investigation I even more so question Joseph wils I do see plenty of scenarios
where Joe could be guilty and David just is Collateral Damage I also see scenarios where we have other suspects
that I have to believe I've not reviewed the trial transcripts but one thing to point out here is that Joe had no trial
he confessed and then he testified against David Thorne and not over overly whelmingly convincing in his testimony
against David Thorne either I think you pointed out that he on your show that he
says I don't know is seems to be the most common answer that he gives while on the stand I don't know I I see a I
see a case where we have other possibilities we have other good suspects and I can't believe that the
the defense even made reference to these people the whole thing here is I've always said that your homicide or the
the V the victim if you're a family member of a victim your case is only as good as the desk of the officer that it
your case File lands on and that's the unfortunate truth of these scenarios and obviously there are some better police
forces than others that will always be the truth but one thing that gets lost in a lot of these True Crime cases
especially the ones that are solved is you know we've presented some cases here in the garage where you get these guys
that just get bum freaking lawyers that they they they're happy to take your money but they ain't they ain't going to
do any work for it well that's the thing they paid a lot of money this was a private attorney that they hired David's
family they again they were not broke I mean they used they had money to hire this private attorney well and the
defendant is usually blinded by the idea oh this guy cost a lot of money he must
know what he's doing yeah well I don't know if this guy knew what he was doing or not but he didn't act that way or
conduct himself that way he called three Witnesses the guys on could be facing the death penalty yeah well it reminds
me a lot of the Ryan Ferguson Trial because you have yeah one guy confessing to the crime the other guy
saying I wasn't one I have an alibi but two I wasn't involved at all and then you have a crappy lawyer
that basically says oh well prosecution didn't prove their point so I'm not going to really defend it much how many
episodes Have You released so far and how many more do you have to go so there's 14 and we have six more and it
is with some of the very exciting key people that can answer or just muddy more of this but you know it's um this
is a crazy case and I'm I'm so thankful for you guys for putting it on your Airwaves especially from Ohio because
somebody knows something we have a tip line number now um that people can call um if anyone in Ohio in the alliance
area knows anything the number is 888 863 9550 so I really thank you guys for this
thank you as always for coming on the show we're looking forward to the final episodes of murder and
Alliance murder [Music] [Music] tell thank you guys so much for the support thanks for telling a friend so
much more you can dive into in this case and that's why this week's recommended listening will be murder and Alliance
wherever you get your podcast and join us back here in the garage next week for a new case until then be good be kind
and don't [Music] live [Music] you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on
Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled professionals to
get all your home projects done well inside to outside repairs to Renovations get started on the Angie app
or visit angie.com today you can do this when you Angie that

Murder in Alliance /// Part 2 /// 521

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

April 1st, 1999 - 26 year old Yvonne Layne was found dead in her home. Her children were in the house with her and were found unharmed. Police quickly suspected one of Yvonne ex-boyfriends David Thorne. Some say this case is unsolved and the real killer is still out there and others say it was solved a long time ago. Join us in the Garage with Murder in Alliance host Maggie Freleng for a cold one or two as we unravel this week’s True Crime mystery.

"This episode has been edited for accuracy. Certain portions have been removed to ensure a fair depiction of all those parties involved."

Beer of the Week - Green Slush by Wiley Roots Brewing Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

Our show - True Crime Garage “Off the Record” is available only on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

The episode discusses Yvonne Thorne's murder, suspects, police failures, and Joseph Wils' confession, raising questions about the investigation's integrity.

Key points

Game Changer Technology. Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology revolutionize language learning.
True Crime Begins. Detective Bud Samson introduces the chilling case of a murder investigation.
A Gruesome Crime Scene. The crime scene reveals overkill, suggesting a personal motive behind the murder.
Eyewitness Confusion. Conflicting eyewitness accounts raise questions about the timeline and suspects.
Mysterious Motives. Speculation about the motives of witnesses and potential suspects in the case.
The Mystery of Joe Wils. Three months after the incident, investigators are still searching for answers about Joe Wils.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

They took care of one of the children.

Speculation about the killer's actions regarding the children.

6:40WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.