Missing Welch Girls /// Part 2 /// 108 | Forensic Files

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crime [Music] it was a parent's worst nightmare that has lasted 10 years and one family
doesn't want you to forget two missing teenage girls this is KO of News at 10 I'm Rhonda Justice and I'm D quick
tomorrow marks the 10th anniversary of the murders of Danny and Kathy Freeman and The Disappearance of their daughter
and her friend the Freemans were murdered and their home was burned to the ground in Welch Oklahoma December
30th 1999 their 16-year-old daughter Ashley was hosting a birthday sleepover with
her friend Laura Bible while the bodies of the Freeman parents were found inside
the burned home no Trace if Ashley and Laura were ever found Laura's mother hopes someone could still come forward
with information and collect the $50,000 reward we're going to have more on the anniversary and the investigation
tomorrow [Music] [Music] we were getting into the theories regarding the unsolved murders of Danny
Freeman and his wife Kathy Freeman as well as the mysterious disappearances of their daughter Ashley Freeman and her
friend Laura Bible which took place December 30th 1999 continuing on with those theories
one we hadn't got to yet was Theory number three that the police had killed Dany and his wife and then Set Fire to
the the trailer destroying evidence and abducting the girls let's talk about this one here for
a second because this is one that is near and dear to the the hearts and minds of the Freeman Family there's a
lot of family members that believe that this is is the actual situation um well when one of your loved
ones comes out and says hey if anything ever happens to me uh look into the sheriff department yeah and that's
exactly what Dany had said to his brother Dwayne before uh he was killed right and he had also told his brother
that that according to Dany that he was told by the sheriff's department that they could do anything that they wanted
to him and his family and there wasn't a thing that Danny could do about it I never would have thought when we started
the likelihood that law enforcement would be involved or possibly involved in so many different cases yeah this is
something that we seem to bump up against time and time again when we're covering these unsolved cases but the
situation here is we spoke about Danny's running with the law you know this all occurred after his son Shane was shot by
the police now the situation is this that we also have some other fact ing things here Not only was Danny following
around and hanging out in front of the officer's home and being followed by the officers as well but according to local
accounts the Danny Freeman once threatened the lives of police officer David Hayes this is the officer that
shot and killed his son Shane the other thing is that Dany according again to Dwayne his brother said that the
sheriff's department was threatening him as well so we like you know Danny was uh
the harasser and also being harassed himself and I don't know all of the specifics regarding their son being shot
but all reports that I have read seems to me like it was a Justified shooting by police as well as you know they did
conduct their own investigation and they state that it was a Justified shooting that the officer David Hayes that he was
simply defending himself against an armed man that was rumored to be suicidal that wanted suicide by cop that
was seemed to be out willly you know willingly committing crime well right I think your vocabulary is wrong I I don't
think it was a man you know I still at that point I think he's a boy mentally he seemed very much like a a boy at that
time but the the the situation is this okay there is no evidence to suggest this theory is correct um the the
officer David Hayes uh who shot and killed the son Shane his brother is in law enforcement as well now both of them
have taken polygraph exams after the girl's disappearance um and there was nothing within those exams to conclude
or suspect either one of them of having any involvement in The Disappearance or the murder of the Freeman and ler Bible
now we also have that they're not even considered suspects in this investigation and one thing that I want
to make clear too that they were never personally involved in the investigation of the murders or The Disappearance
because there was a conflict of interest so as soon as this case took off they immediately got the the Oklahoma State
Bureau of Investigation involved and they took over the case because there like like said there's a conflict of of
interest there is one strange connection that I would like to bring up though and
this this would kind of further the law enforcement conspiracy theory here is that uh several of the girls relatives
participated in a pilot of a television program called what really happened this
took place in October of 2001 the show was not purchased by any of the networks and has never been uh broadcasted now
there was a woman named Deanna dorsy uh she's a nurse who assisted the Freeman on the night of Shane's death she
appeared on the show you know gave interviews and such the other connection for Deanna dorsy is that her daughter
was a friend of Ashley's back in 1999 now Dianna was shot and killed at the hospital where she worked this was
shortly after a taping of this show what really happened authorities said okay hold on so this nurse comes out and
she's on this TV program that never gets picked up right but for every by all accounts people thought it was going to
get picked up and she comes out and makes these claims on this show and then she is killed at her work she I don't
know that she claimed that law enforcement was involved all I'm saying is that she gave interviews regarding
this this TV show now this would have been known in the area throughout the community that this show was taking
place that they're recording and they're interviewing different people I mean right again let's remind everybody this
is a town of 600 people mhm you know so we're a very small community yeah and the neighboring town which is the large
one has over 6,000 people so again another small community the situation is this though my guess is that she's
probably somebody that you would want to seek out to interview because at this point when you're when you're making
this show the parents of Shane no longer exist to conduct these interviews she was close to the family and helped them
during the grieving process when they lost their son right and so she would have known intimate details regarding
the death of Shane and regarding how the family was trying to cope with the loss
of their son Deanna dorsy she was shot and killed by a man named Ricky Martin oh and he was a former employee of the
same of the same hospital where they both had worked now this gentleman Ricky Martin he suffered from paranoid
schizophrenia well he also suffered from shaking his bon bon well they believe that he was angry because he was let go
from his job and that he came into work and he shot Deanna dorsy at at his former work I'm sorry to be insensitive
it's just it's hilarious his name is hilarious now I think why people connect this too you know there's some obvious
connections immediately you know with with Deanna dorsy having been close to the Freeman family and her daughter
knows Ashley Freeman so there's those connections she's involved in the taping of this TV show but I think what kind of
tops that theory off the conspiracy theory off here is that Ricky Martin was was shot and killed by police that same
day and you know how it is it's it's oh he was shutting her up and now we're shutting him up um but the thing is he
he did he he suffered from this this disease and he must have freaked out that's the only thing they can come up
with is that he freaked out about having been let go and that he went in there with the intention of harming somebody
as a type of Revenge for losing his job the or shooting up the whole place it doesn't look like it was she was I think
just in the wrong place at the wrong time I don't think she was targeted directly by Ricky Martin and you have
good reason to believe that be because law enforcement and the hospital itself have come out and stated that the two of
them didn't know each other that that even though that they worked in the same location no one could make any ties
between the two of them that that that Ricky Martin would have had any reason to Target her or that specifically went
there to kill her she just happened to be the person that he encountered when he was on this Rampage well we normally
know where I sit on these things Captain conspiracy you've been accused many times of loving a good conspiracy yeah
I'm guilty as charge that's cuz I'm crazy but where do you sit on this um the the
whole police theory that the police was involved I don't think that the police Theory holds any weight for me I I see
where we have the confrontation between Dany and the other officers and the harassment yeah I I see that and and
here's here's where I'm going to take this thing did Danny cross the line in my opinion yes did law enforcement cross
the line in the situation before this family was murdered um I don't know and I'll tell you why because here's the
thing we have reports of Dany sitting in his vehicle in front of Officer Hayes's
home that's much different to me than if you were if if you sat in front of my home in a vehicle multiple times I would
feel like you're threatening my family if you personally just said something to my face where you threatened me I would
take that a that would be a lot less to me than a threat of you sitting in front
of my family's home noted now I do understand Blue Blood Man you got to have your you got to have your brothers
and sisters backs you know you can't we can't have disgruntled citizens sitting in front of officers homes intimidating
them however I don't think that your way of taking care of that problem is that would make any sense it doesn't make any
sense to go and kill and murder the family and abduct these girls to me um you they would have had means of taking
down Danny Freeman I believe I believe they that that if some of the rumors were true regarding Dany and his
behavior right I believe they probably could have arrested him on on a number of charges and that they would have felt
safe with their families and and their personal safety having him simply Behind Bars and not have to do harm to innocent
people that happen to be in family members or associated with Danny so I think that's why it doesn't hold any
weight for me I think that the police police if they in the sheriff's department if they really wanted to
correct the problem by being bullies they could have done it by different means right so what you're saying is
pretty much what I think as well but I'm I'm going to put it a little clearer right I don't think you were as clear as
we could be crystal clear right so what you're saying is and what I believe is that they could have they could have
removed Dany from the situation or they could have just taken care of Danny and why would you involved you
know the wife mhm then and then also why would you involve the daughter and then
on top of that why would you involve the daughter's friend right that doesn't make a lot of sense to me I think part
of them felt bad because this guy was harassing them but I think part of them felt bad like we had to do our job we
had to defend ourselves but I guarantee you they didn't feel good about themselves no when when they got home
here's this kid that was suffer uffing from maybe a mental illness maybe just you know maybe it was depression who
knows but he was acting out for some reason he was acting out and they had this officer had to defend his life and
that that's a a tough thing for that officer to have to do and then it's a small town small community you have to
look this father in the eye and you know what you did but you know what you did was right and to defend yourself the
problem with any of these police conspiracies or these law enfor enforcement conspiracies is if it was just Dany they
just found Dany dead in the home it was a blaze and nobody else was dead nobody was missing well yeah look to the
sheriff mhm but these people that want to start thinking that law enforcement would take an innocent person that has
nothing to do with anything and to you know murder that person or place that person on somebody's property after
after they murder it makes zero sense mhm yeah and I think you really hit upon something here
because I think that that's probably the reason why they never arrested Dany for
any of these things and put him behind bars so that he couldn't hurt their families I think they were trying to
show Dany a bit of compassion right and and in the means that did they threaten him or threaten his his family I believe
that probably happened yeah and but I don't think that they had any intention of carrying out those threats now
remind you I'm A Thousand Miles removed from the situation and and you know many
years later but the but my gut feeling tells me that you know when when you're sitting out in front of my home and I
know that I that I unfortunately was thrown into a situation where I had to defend myself
and your son lost his life I can see I could see myself saying you know what I'm going to deal with this problem
of him being being in front of my home by him intimidating my family I'm going to deal with this problem with words and
not with fist not with cuffs not with guns I'm going to deal with it with words and if I have to get into an
argument with this gentleman or if I have to have an exchange with this gentleman and he's threatening me and it
leads me to threaten him I I can believe that the threats happen but again I don't think there there was any
intention of carrying out any of those threats well and the big red flag here too is initially at the scene it was
just Kathy that they found dead it wasn't until um it wasn't until the Bibles came around that they found Dany
dead themselves or or you know the dogs help yeah so you know if you're trying to cover something up you'd think you'd
do a better job of uh policing the crime scene well not only that they released the crime scene very early you know
that's why the Bibles found Danny's body and then to further that the the following day after body was found they
opened up that property because it was a large property to volunteers they had over 500 people there that day searching
the property for any evidence regarding the the whereabouts of the girls or you know possible evidence of who committed
these murders right so what you're saying is why open this up for a search party if you're trying to contain it it
would be really fishy if they said you know what yeah we understand we got two missing girls here but we don't want you
searching the property they could have sat on that property for days and right that would have been fishy
so look I know I I know you start getting this gut feeling I know you're listening to this case out there and you
start thinking oh maybe it's law enforcement I'm my gut is telling me after you look at the evidence after you
look at the procedures that took place I don't think there's a lot of weight to that theory so let's remind everybody
what the remaining three theories were regarding this case now mind you these are theories based off of law
enforcement based off of people in the community family members these are these are their theories and I want to go
through these three because I think what we're going to cover next in in the second half of today's show will I want
you to think about these different suspects as we go through them and how they could fit into either of these
theories because they're they're somewhat similar so Theory number four was that the police were not involved
but Dany was targeted and he was the target due to drug activity mhm Theory number five was that the girls were
actually the Target that the motivation for this attack was abduction and that the parents were just killed and the
fire was set to hide evidence and abduct the girl human trafficking and then the
sixth theory that they were working off of was that someone that knew the family
had killed the Freemans and abducted the girls and it's so interesting to me when
there's multiple confessions into a case mhm well they start rolling in and this
the first one comes 18 months after the crime was committed and this is a jailhouse confession by several inmates
um they state that they had seen the girls or had knowledge of the girls being at a home that was in the area
this home is also known to law enforcement and this would have been on New Year's Eve 1999 so the day after the
girls were abducted these guys were saying that they had knowledge or seen the girls there now this was a sus ected
drug house um their accounts are this that that the girls were being held captive there they were being assaulted
and tortured and they didn't know what happened to the girls but they knew that they were there on that date the
situation the the police they have rumor to believe this because like I said this
is already a home that is known to law enforcement this is a home that they drug house yeah they keep an eye on the
house they keep an eye on the occupants of the house so they get a search warrant the necessary warrant and they
decide to raid the home good they do not find any evidence of the girls having been there now mind you this is 18
months later they did find um a lot of evidence regarding um methamphetamine manufacturing and so they were able to
take down the the necessary people because of that and make charges there the other strange thing is that one of
the jail housee confessors claimed that there was a tape of some of a VHS tape of some of the activity that was going
on that day in that home and that he didn't know where the tape would be located or where it could be found but
he had viewed a portion of that tape at some point and the the tape would have been of them being tortured is that what
they're saying um probably most likely um you know you don't have to use your imagination too much to to to think of
what could be on that tape um now I could not locate these the the men that made these
statements I could not locate their names and that doesn't surprise me because they're right but essentially
it's not a confession because they're not the ones that were you know they didn't abduct the girls they're the ones
that said hey well we were at this party and we knew about it we turned a blind eye that's kind of what they're
confessing to right well which would be a crime but they're probably sitting down stating that you know what I can
give you I can give you what I know as long as this doesn't come back on me right you're guilty of being a piece of
[ __ ] yes um the but again I it doesn't surprise me that we cannot locate the names of these guys because it's a
jailhouse confession they're not going to release these names that's the kind of stuff that they you know you get the
prison Justice within the walls uh they yeah but part of the other reason that they wouldn't release this stuff is that
they're they're confessing to being a part of something you know again not the ones that captured these girls but
they're at this party with these known drug dealers that by all accounts if you're saying if what they're saying is
true these people murdered these people uh they these people murdered the parents and then abducted these teenage
girls m and so law enforcement doesn't have to say who who said this stuff right you know and obviously I think law
enforcement f like there was some validity there because they did the raid yeah so again that that doesn't mean
that that what they're saying is not true so it could be it could be true yes but but as an inmate if I sit down and
I'm going to pass along knowledge of something I know about of a horrible crime I'm not going to want you to use
my name you know well I don't want anybody to use my name well the the my final thought on this Theory here
Captain is is there is one little tidbit of of evidence here if if in fact these
stories are true then the one gentleman stated that well I shouldn't say gentleman the one dude stated that there
was a VHS tape now um does that tape still exist I would I would the smart wager in me would say no that it's
probably been destroyed and gotten rid of um but keep that in the back of your mind there because these things have you
know the truth has a way of coming out in in the long run and this is something that you could
hold on to that that there might be some evidence out there that somebody could stumble across one day or find one day
and we would be able to to just punch microphones we would be able to solve this case regarding this
situation well and this goes back to my original thoughts of why the heck they probably moved out there to begin with I
mean if you're just trying to grow a little pot you know maybe you'd want some land I'm not saying that people
want just want land anyways but when they talk about drug activities and being a rural area I kept on saying that
there's probably meth INF fetamines or or something of that nature going on oh was definitely going on in the area yeah
it's definitely going on in the area but I'm saying going on with Danny that's my
gut feeling so to me I mean this is super creepy if if you why would you take these girls hostage other than for
human trafficking and then you're going to videotape they tort them being tortured or sexually abused or whatever
you're a sick individual you know what I mean and it's very uh kind of reminding
me of uh True Detective season 1 which was a crazy show but anyways that to me there's so many creepy levels of that
and uh I wish we would know I want to know where the investigation took him further but if
these people were just just uh making drugs and then up their game as far as criminal activity they might have fled
the area and we never will know who it was and it probably was multiple people as well do you think it's a possibility
because you know there's there's usually rumors amongst criminals right there's there's there's rumors amongst that
crowd um do you think that there's a possibility that these guys in jail that that maybe had heard a rumor that this
drug house was involved somehow with these girls or the death of Danny and thought you know what we're going to try
to help there's well not only that there's a reward and and maybe if if this rumor is right I'm going to go I'm
going to pretend like I know something and uh maybe I get out early maybe I get released early you know maybe just kind
of taking a a shot in the dark there yeah possibly but I think uh the VHS tape it's either just a detail that you
heard or you know it could have been a detail you made you make up I don't know to make
yourself seem a little more believable but uh I think there's some weight to this and and there makes and this Theory
makes some logical sense let's get into more theories right after this quick beer
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we have a confession to get to here and this is from an article titled authorities investigate death row
Killers claims this is from the Joplin Globe back in May of 2002 and I'll read some pieces of this uh article so we can
get a a good idea of what's going on Tommy ly cells age 38 who is considered one of the nation's most prolific serial
killers made the claim claim in a letter to the Joplin Globe postmarked May 10th
this is he's claiming to know the whereabouts of the two missing girls SS had previously claimed involvement in
the 1999 disappearance of Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible but he said that he couldn't remember any details in the
letter SS said he could now take authorities to where the girls are buried he says that he wants you know
what does he remember about December 30th well he states that he he wants to say this that he remembers where the two
bodies are and he believes he can take them to the bodies and he also wants to remember a fire Tommy cells was a
Drifter and sometimes Carnival mechanic during his 20 plus years on the road cells claims he has murdered more than
50 people authorities have confirmed 17 of his kills some of them in Illinois Missouri and Oklahoma authorities said
that they are skeptical of the serial Killer's latest claim but said that they will talk to him right but what we do
know is that he was in the area you know he has killings in that area mhm uh they
they state that he would be considered a very good suspect or at least a suspect
um and they said that they don't want to talk the authorities don't want to talk
about The credibility of anything uh because you know they're going to talk to him because they don't have very many
leads in this case and they want to check everything out well what happens when they talk to him well his previous
claim was that he couldn't remember anything or any of the details regarding the case or the crime itself now after
some some more time has elaps now he's all of a sudden he's clear about what happened and he can lead him to the
bodies he can talk about the details of the murders the end result is that they take
him to where he said he disposed of the bodies and and this was near the Red River which is on the border of Oklahoma
and Texas MH and the first of all they don't find any remains or any evidence uh that that the girls were ever there
or that their bodies were there uh furthermore the way that he had described the area and the location of
where they would find these bodies beforehand once they take him to the location it it doesn't even match up
with with his description of where he says he placed the bodies furthermore he couldn't give any real details about the
crime itself regarding how the Freemans were killed how the crime went down um he didn't know any details to to further
make them believe that he had any insight to give them it was yeah and you think with all these goofy false
confessions that law enforcement would get to the point where they go okay well in this scenario we have two dead bodies
right mhm give me details of these right before we go on a wild goose chase looking for
these missing girls well and they actually did because he wanted to talk about this previously and he couldn't
provide him with any information so they didn't take him out on the road they they waited until he stated you know now
now I know this information now I can pass along this information they believe that everything that he was telling them
was stuff that he would have been able to find in the newspapers right you know stuff that that you and I could have
told them about the crimes so this B basically goes nowhere and we're back to square one yeah this leaves us with a
second confession and this comes from a guy by the name of Jeremy Jones and I'll
take you through a little bit of his background so we can figure out if if his confession will carry more weight
than that of Tommy lenells so back in 1997 uh Jones receives probation he's put on probation for 5 years uh he's
living in the Oklahoma area and dur he's put on probation because he has committed sexual assault three counts of
sexual assault actually so he receives 5 years of probation right in the year 2000 in December of 2000 in the year
2000 he leaves Oklahoma and he goes to Alabama now during the course of him leaving the state he has assumed a new
identity and he's even received uh social security number along with personal info uh he got this from a
woman whose son was in prison in Missouri so he steals this person's identity and he's now in Alabama well
while in Alabama in 2003 he's arrested for indecent exposure in 2004 he's arrested for criminal
trespassing now the problem here is Captain that during both of those arrests you know fingerprints are taken
and they fail to realize the real identity of this person he's now going by the Alias of John Paul Chapman real
Nam Jeremy Jones the authorities after two arrests they do not make the connection that John Paul Chapman is
actually Jeremy Jones MH in 2004 he is arrested for the rape slaying of a 45-year-old woman this is Lisa
Nichols and this took place in Alabama now he shot her he mutilated the body and he set her trailer on fire the the
situation is as such he states that they were out together that she asked him to
come back to her home and at some point he believed she was trying to rob him she was going through his things or his
backpack or something like that and he flew into a drug induced rage killed her and set the trailer on fire the problem
here is we have a situation where it's so much similar to the Freeman murder you know we have people that were shot
in a trailer trailer set on fire yeah he's he's looking pretty suspicious at this point well to make matters worse
you know we already have this horrific killing of of the the woman Lisa Nichols M but law enforcement failed to discover
his true identity you know he was he was on probation and that probation was revoked in the year 2000 mhm so he would
have he's a fugitive from the law at this point so even though you have something as small as an indecent
exposure or a criminal trespassing charge this would they they would then F you know ship your butt back to Oklahoma
and poor Lisa Nichols would still be alive I I don't want to harp on law enforcement too much because for those
of for those of people that don't know the the fingerprinting process is pretty complicated and it it's not uncommon
that that things identities or such could slip through the cracks regarding fingerprints well technology is way
ahead now and it but it's a little troubling when it happens you know more than once with the same individual
especially somebody as heinous as as Jeremy Jones as evil as he is because while he is while they're waiting to
convict him we we got a guy he ends up confessing to a total of 13 murders they only end up charging him with three of
those um they could only find evidence enough to con get a conviction of three of those but what happens later is that
he then confesses to the murders of Danny Freeman Kathy Freeman and abducting Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible
and disposing of their bodies after he murders them mhm his story goes that he knew somebody and he knew a man I knew
somebody okay well he knew a man named Charlie okay and Charlie was associated with Danny okay I've heard several
accounts of this story that that either Jeremy Jones was owed money by Danny Freeman or that Danny Freeman owed this
Charlie guy some money okay regardless that's his connection to Danny Freeman he goes to the Freeman home to
collect what what is his what he believ is his he says that he spends hours driving around looking for the Freeman
home which makes sense there's not a lot of proof that he would have known where the
home was with the exception of had he ever gone there with Charlie or received information from Charlie than he might
have known where their home is right but such a remote area it's it's very easy if your friend lives in you know if your
friend lives in a subdivision right that if you drive around enough you go oh I I
remember this I remember that that's a lot harder to do in a remote area well and I want to I want to read somebody's
description of the Freeman's home so they can get an idea of how hard I think that this home would be to fine
especially in the dark you know I know I have I have several friends that live out in the sticks I I'll call it
and I've driven past I've been to their homes many times and driven past the entrance to their home even in the broad
daylight because they live so far off the road uh it's not well marked but this is a description from a local
person that I found regarding the Freeman home they state that the Freeman's home is a trailer located just
outside of Welsh City Limits it's located at the end of a half mile dirt driveway the property is only
identifiable by a simple mailbox that sat on top of iron chain of an iron chain stand MH and it basically the only
indication that you would have that that's somebody's driveway and just not some random dirt road is this tiny
little mailbox that's not you know it's not lit um it's and they have a little do most people have glowing mailboxes
well they have a little no but they might have a light above or a street light would be located near the the
driveway not this situation and that there's a little bit of a rock formation um near the driveway as well that to the
locals is the only indication that there is a home back there okay so where does
his story go from here he's at the home and he is he's murdered Dany and Kathy he then
sets the trailer on fire and unbeknownst to him that there were other people inside the the trailer he goes outside
uh he's getting ready to leave the property when the two girls come running out of the burning trailer all right so
let's back this up a little bit so he goes in to collect his money from Danny mhm there's probably some kind of tussle
because like we know Danny has has a broken collar bone mhm so he gets shot then he has to shoot Kathy the wife
because she's there she's a witness yep okay so that all checks out driving around for a while because you can't
find the property it's hard to find it's nighttime that checks out right there's
two individuals in the trailer that he's not aware of so do the girls hear what's going on
and they just stay in their room and hide you know he he doesn't know why they they didn't appear or doesn't State
why that he doesn't see them until or even know that they're in the home until the place is set on fire he says that
when they came out of the trailer well real quick does he have a rough timeline of when he claims he's he shows up to
the Freeman's home this cuz we know that the boyfriend was there till probably 9:30 10 10:30 according to statements
that I read this would put him in the Freeman home in the early morning hours of the 30th okay so so so we could
assume the girls would be asleep and I I do want everybody to keep in mind um that this is a bit of a vague confession
and the reason I believe this is is because he is a well-known Jeremy Jones is a well-known meth head um he might
not be the details of this crime might not even be clear to him um but he States anyway that the girls came
rushing out of the trailer and to his surprise they didn't know that he was the perpetrator of anything that had
happened that had taken place before the the trailer was Ablaze well maybe they slept through it he he says that they
thought or assumed that he was passing by and saw the fire and had intended to report it or to help in some manner so
he gets them in his vehicle and they willingly leave the property the problem is they're not
going to be alive for very much longer because of what kind of animal Jeremy Jones is right well and he he obviously
seems like a a sex offender yeah you know he definitely is and he says that he drove them to a location that was
about an hour away um and he he assaulted one of the girls um one of the girls tried to run off uh he shot her
and then murdered the other girl and then he threw their bodies down into a mine shaft okay okay so the problem with
this m shaft is that it's one of these there's multiple there's multiple pits and stuff in this location and it also
has a series of underground tunnels um that could be flushed out from time to time due to water right right so he and
he and he's confessing years later so yeah this is years and years of possible flushing of these
Minds yeah and they the thing I don't like about his story and maybe and just would I want to know your
thoughts but the thing that I don't like about his story is that his story seems
to make some sense it makes a lot of sense and even for a methhead uh you know because it's it like like you said
didn't know they were there he has a motive there's a logical explanation of why he would want Dany dead mhm and then
there's obviously a logical explanation of why he wants Kathy dead because she's
there MH right and he's probably in a meth State anyways yeah you know up or down and I don't know much about it so
I'm not captain of meth heads um but then the girls were there and here here's this guy with you know these
sexual demons mhm and he is a sexual demon exactly right so so that's what that's to me it's seems like everything
he's saying makes sense mhm uh with the exception of they do they do an extensive search of the area in the Min
shafts these pits the tunnels nothing is found of the girls um and immediately when he realizes that
they didn't find anything well he takes back his confession he's no longer confessing to to the m that's probably a
play by his lawyer though um well here's the other thing too though you said he you know he confessed to 13 they only
tried him for three yeah but those held up yeah so okay so we so now we do have some evidence that this guy confesses to
stuff that he actually does do and then there is obviously enough evidence to find it
because if he confessed and if they would have found that body if they would have found those bodies right mhm that
that would have been enough to convict him right of course so again I think that's a play from the lawyer you know
recant the statement um when you compare the two confessions Tommy lels to Jeremy Jones Tommy lels he
some of the things he confess to they were able to take off the books and clear because um his confessions were
accurate however I would throw Tommy lyells into the category of he's probably Our Generation version of Henry
Lee Lucas um you know another another killer but somebody that confessed to multiple killings you know they saw it
on TV and therefore he confessed and I think that I think Tommy lels was basically just a very weak Disturbed man
um and I certainly guilty of multiple murders however I think he wanted to be much like Henry Lee Lucas where he was
thought as of some kind of Genius serial killer type um I don't know if the authorities or if the media or if Tommy
lyells himself gave him the nickname but he was known by the nickname of coasta Coast you know meaning he had killed
multiple people in multiple States you're not going to ruin my AM radio show for me and go ahead oh the coast to
coast show not calling him Coast to Coast um but regarding Jeremy Jones you know we know he is he was from Oklahoma
uh the strange thing too is that he leaves the state the following year um you know it it I know that yes he was on
probation yes his probation was revoked um and he became a fugitive maybe he was
running simply from that I would wonder if he was running from these four murders that he had committed and later
confessed to recanting that confession right again the only the only thing I believe about the recanning is that it's
a lawyer play and then also I mean as far as confessions go where does um the Bible family stand on any of these
confessions um I if I had to guess what they would would think and believe I their Theory Loren's Theory would
probably lean most towards Jeremy Jones right and in my you know my theory and the reason why we kind of hint on this a
little bit that how tough it would be to locate their home it it would seem very
strange to me that a person like Tommy ly cells that that he would have been able
to locate this home I don't think he knew these people I don't think he knew the Freemans and it doesn't strike me
that this is the type of home that some random killer traveling the streets um you know there's a killer on the road to
quote Jim Morrison uh would just stumble upon this home and commit this horrible
crime yeah and I think with um Jeremy Jones there's a connection to Danny M for one and then now just go with me on this
this is not too far-fetched you need to collect money why because you're meth head mm right so you go and
you're gonna kill Danny then you're gonna kill Kathy and then these girls come running
out and you don't know a bunch of details of what has happened or what hasn't happened right you're kind of
blurry with your details but we have the first confession being these people in jail saying well the rumor is that we
heard or a party that we were at could have been Charlie's house and is this Charlie uh is this
Charlie individual connect to this meth house and is it is it possible that is Jeremy Jones connected
or Charlie connected to the Smith house right and then that would make their story make sense and if any of those uh
jail house snitches I'd say could come forward and say Jeremy Jones was at that party then there's more validity to that
confession as well if that is the way it happened you're you're saying that Jeremy Jones would
having abducted the girls would then have something to barter with uh to try to obtain more drugs or pay back a debt
to his drug dealers right or because he killed Danny maybe he found some money you know in
the freezer maybe he didn't or maybe it was just I have these girls they're not aware that I killed their parents and
I'm going to take them to this party mhm this drug party on New Year's there are
girls there I'm just saying that there that is a possibility there are some problems with his confession um he was
arrested on the 30th at 4:00 a.m. and this would have put him in the area of the Freeman home the problem with that
is we have the medical examiner stating that they believe I'm sorry she believes
that Kathy Freeman was killed at 5:00 a.m. right um so this would make one if that in fact is true I would love to
know you know anytime we're doing these cases there's always that one little tidbit of of knowledge that I think is
needed to really hone in and Target and and Bullseye a suspect right and so they're saying okay so the bit of
information in this one for me is that time of death how strong do they feel about that 5:00 a.m. time time of death
right 5: a.m. time of death but they're saying at 400 a.m. he's arrested mhm so that puts him in the air area yeah he
would have been about 10 or 11 miles away from the Freeman home at 4:00 a.m. when he's arrested he's arrested for
like uh he's intoxicated or high or something like that um but he's arrested the other bit of knowledge that would be
interesting to find out is you know what belongings did he have on him at the time that he was arrested did he have a
large sum of money you know did he have hundreds and hundreds of dollars in his pockets when he when he was arrested
right or or was he alone and maybe he just can't you know maybe he's confessing to the crime because he knows
that he was involved somehow mhm but maybe he wasn't alone so maybe you know maybe the you know maybe they're basing
the time of death off of when they think the fire was started it's a possibility because the
first known uh sighting of the fire would be at 5:30 a.m. right and if you and if you back it up and you say okay
well uh you know Jeremy Jones and and his friend Charlie go to the house at midnight 1:00 a.m. the murders could
take place then Jeremy Jones actually leaves the scene and Charlie's still at the scene
to have the fire start you kind of crossed you crossed into what we were going to get to next here is regarding a
tip that was received this was received um about a year maybe maybe two years ago um but it was a tip that Loren Bible
had received on her there's a on her page right yes yeah so she receives a tip that somebody should look into The
Well of this old U old Charlie Critter house now Critter lives in Kansas um but because of the state line it's not
terribly far from the Freeman home um and here's the other thing now according to Loren Charlie and Dany
knew each other right so here's what I'm getting at here and Jeremy Jones states
that he knew this Charlie guy that Danny owed money to but he never says it's Charlie Critter he just says Charlie
this guy named Charlie now the according to local newspapers not only did Charlie Critter
know Danny Freeman because they might they they don't in the local papers I couldn't find any drug connection but
according to Loren there's a drug connection there the local papers state that they knew one another because a
they had worked together at one point m and b that Critter owned several uh cattle that were that lived on the
Freeman property so there's another connection to this this Critter guy well they they
they're given this tip to search The Well of of his former home home right they search the well um they send
cameras down deep into the well and they find they they found no evidence that there there was definitely no bodies in
there the only thing I believe they found was some old some old bucket um but there was no other type of uh debris
that would lead you to believe that there were any personal belongings or clothing or anything of that nature
again what I was saying though is you know with Jeremy Jones confessing maybe it's just not implementing his buddy
Charlie and I think all this as well well who is Charlie Charlie's a guy that's currently spending he's got to
serve 14 years in prison for second deegree murder he murdered a woman right he's a bad ombre he murdered a woman and
uh they found her body in a creek um and the situation is they don't believe that
they couldn't find any evidence of sexual assault um so maybe he's not the same kind of animal that uh Jeremy Jones
is but you're exactly right right Captain we have a situation where it's very likely that this Charlie character
that Jeremy Jones says he knows is in fact the same Charlie Critter that we've been talking about that knew Danny that
was rumored that he owed money to one or both of these people here's what here's what I think
happened I think that so are we given our theories now I think we got to because we've been kind of beating
around it the whole time here uh the I think that the two of them probably committed this crime together and I
think that that's the only way that you could make the timeline make sense regarding uh Jeremy Jones's involvement
well his arrest right because him being arrested at 4:00 a.m. that right yeah uh
that is what kind of puts the wrinkle on the whole confession and Loren Bible her
belief is that the the connection between the crimes is in the murderers is is Danny Freeman that somebody came
to the trailer that night looking for Danny for some reason and this was the result and I'm going to give her the
benefit of the doubt and I'm going to believe what her gut tells her because I can tell from all the research and
reading that I've done that nobody has spent more time on this case and on this investigation the than Loren Bible and
she knows that she knows the players involved well well she knows the characters and she knows the landscape
she she knows everything and on top of that her motive for getting answers is stronger than anybody's because of the
loss of her daughter and I I think that two people or more had to commit this crime because of one simple fact
okay well let's make it two simple facts but they're pretty much the same thing okay we know we've described Danny
Freeman very well to everybody it's easy to say that he has a temper there's no reason to think that if he was
confronted or put in a situation that he didn't want to be in that he would not fight back this this is a guy that would
fight back 100% and second of all is rumored to have a stockpile of guns and firearms on his property uhhuh you do
not I don't care how much meth you do I don't care how dumb you are or how evil you are you do not approach a man or his
property that is of that character and has that amount of weapons by yourself well you're and the reason why they
would be approaching him is to get money to get money or to right so when you're
going to go collect money from somebody you don't show up empty-handed right right and I think what happened here I
think that we have two terrible individuals mhm we have Critter and we have his buddy Jeremy Jones and it's not
a stretch to believe that they those two knew each other that they went to that home together to confront Jeremy or
sorry Danny about money well or or or he's making making drugs like I said or he's making drugs yeah most likely could
have went there to collect money or just straight up to rob the guy right and they get in this scuffle they get in
this situation and then we have Jeremy Jones look cuz it could be as simple as uh you know I'm out you know creepy
Critter is over there and he's has his cattle and Danny just opens up the freezer you get some ice for a beer or
something oh what's that in the freezer oh my daughter saving up for you know or
they knew there was money on the property right right you know it was also believed that Danny had some kind
of collection that was full of valuables maybe they went there to collect that or
or there was just a disagreement you never know but with giving the character of these two guys of Critter and Jones I
I and it to me I I I'm with you on the fact that it doesn't seem like it's just a lone individual that it would it more
likely be two individuals but I still feel like there's some validity to the the jail house
snitches and that and like I said because the and one of the issues here is because Jeremy Jones is a
methhead his story it makes so much sense but there's so many gaps M and so many kind of just
dark spots that that if he could remember those or if he would have stated those and I think maybe some of
that some of the stuff he's not stating correctly is because he doesn't want to implement uh Charles and probably the
reason why is because he knows that if he ever got out or if he ever was confronted with this individual again he
could be killed by him well you know and these two guys are very in some ways very different from one another uh
Critter has never confessed to to the murder that he has been convicted of um he's not you know talking about he he
actually claims that he was framed um Jones as we know he he from time to time will sing like a bird and tell you you
know every confession that he can think of uh Jones did know it's kind of a douchy bird but yeah Jones did know what
type of gun they were killed with uh he also knew what accelerant was used to set the fire see that's that's that's
all I need we have evidence there and the reason why I think it was the two of them is that I here's the thing little
Insight here Jeremy Jones you know we talked about this when we covered Bundy a little bit and we talked about it a
little bit with the yogurt shop murders Jeremy Jones is a serial rapist okay he's a Serial sex offender in every
sense of the word he's somebody that's been convicted of such crimes before he start started murdering sometimes we see
with these serial killers that cannot control themselves because that's the type of monster that they are that they
graduate from M from rape to murder and I think that's what we have here with Jeremy Jones I think that if he were
there if he were there that night there is no way he could have walked away from
that trailer without abducting those girls it that that's the sick individual that he is that's his addiction more so
than methampetamine more so than the drugs and the alcohol that is his number one drug of choice is is rape and I
think that that we have a situation where they abducted these girls and they were able to get away with it because
there was two of and Jeremy Jones fits into the timeline because he was not involved after the
hours of 4 a.m. right and like I said I mean I when you can tell me what gun they used and you can tell me what
accelerant they used that's believable the other thing too is there's some evidence about cars
being in the area that night yeah there there there were two vehicles that were spotted near the Freeman home again a
remote area there might not be any reason for cars to be in that area two one was a dark uh colored vehicle um and
it was a very vague description given it was a dark colored sedan M uh the other
vehicle that was spotted between the this was between 5 and 6:00 a.m. that morning um the other vehicle would have
been a dark colored truck um it's the way that I've heard this reported is that these are two separate sightings
which would mean to me that these vehicles weren't seen together um but what that makes me wonder
furthermore is we have this arrest record of Jeremy Jones what were his possessions was he in a dark colored
sedan or or a dark colored truck um I know he would have been arrested at 4 a.m and these sightings were later did
he have any did he have a large amount of money on him you know these These are the questions that that I would like to
know the strange thing here though Captain is that law enforcement they do not report the sightings of these
vehicles to the public until like 10 or 11 years after the crime they're basically stating this is some
information that we got right after the crime took place we held on to it because they were very vague
descriptions of vehicles and now we're going to release this information because we want to know
if anybody saw the same thing or has any idea what if this has anything to do with the crime at all well but I also
think that we're seeing law enforcement get a lot smarter and you know given information to the public earlier now
yeah and I I think the more they do that the more they're willing to say hey we have this piece of evidence and maybe
somebody would know something when this case is you know hot when the case is uh you know public the public is
concerned about the case you're going to get more answers now jumping back to the
first theory that we discussed that the that the girls had perpetrated these murders um you know and I just want to
touch on this because I don't want anybody to to tell us we missed something here but there were sightings
of these girls after the fact right um law enforcement has dismissed most of these sightings for the simple fact that
they were receiving sightings of the girls being in different states on the same day um meaning that Ashley could
have been spotted on one side of the country on Wednesday and she was spotted on the other side of the country on that
same Wednesday day right um so they you know when you when you post these pictures and you send them out people
tend to see things um maybe that's why they held back the information on these vehicles that they didn't want to get
overloaded with unnecessary tips that might lead them in the wrong direction yeah and like I said from the beginning
the the minute I saw Ashley's picture I thought well that's my middle school girlfriend I mean it looks exactly like
her um so I don't know I think sometimes when people hear about missing people they
kind of see what they want to see well 16 years after the crime took place we have local law enforcement calling for
tips they're asking the public to put in their two cents and tell us what you saw
tell us what you've heard tell us what you know the thing that's disconcerning about this this plea for help from local
law enforcement to me is is the fact that within this request for information the District Attorney's Office states
that they are encouraging anyone that has called in tips in the last 16 years and if you are wondering if the
information has been followed up on please contact your local law enforcement again you know so kind of I
think I think they're wondering what tips may have fallen through the cracks throughout the years uh they're letting
the public know that they have new people in all of of the sheriff's offices all of the District Attorney's
offices there's new eyes new Minds new people manning these desk and Manning the the offices please submit these tips
to these new people in case this stuff fell through the cracks so we can piece this together well and yeah that's what
they're saying that's the importance uh of what they're saying is and that what and what makes it so odd is please
report whatever you reported 16 years ago again yeah and the conclusion of this story I mean we kind of believe
Jeremy Jones's confession and if they can find some more links maybe there' be some closure for the family MH or if you
could get him to turn on Critter or Critter to turn on Jones uh would would be another way to go with it I think
they're going to have to find the bodies of the girls at this point to believe any confessions that come out um I think
that's the only way that that you'll you'll be able like I said the problem with
Jones is you know he's a drug addict so uh and Ashley Freeman was actually declared
legally dead by her family October 18th 2010 um as we had said earlier the Bible
family remains at on the front line of this investigation um Loren Bible and her husband Jay Bible are really uh the
driving force behind the remaining investigation yeah and if you have any tips or any any information uh or just
want to help out you can check out their Facebook page uh it's fine Laura Bible and that's Laura l a u r i a yeah yeah
uh and I want to give a quick uh a statement that the Loren Bible had stated she says that they will never
declare Laura legally dead um she states that they have come to the conclusion that Laura was in the wrong place at the
wrong time they still feel that she is still alive but whether she is alive or dead they want to know what happened and
our hearts go out to them do we have a recommended reading for this week uh yes it's called the dreams of ADA by Robert
mayor uh this book was recommended to me by a listener and now I'm recommending it to all of you this is especially for
fans of making a murderer the dreams of ADA is is the true bewildering story of a young woman's disappearance the
nightmare of a small town obsessed with delivering Justice and the bizarre dream
of a poor uneducated man accused of murder John gam says that this is a riveting true story of a brutal M murder
in a small town and the tragic errors made in the pursuit of justice so check out the dreams of ADA by Robert Mayer
and you can do that by going to truecrime garage.com click on the recommended page and you will see a big
stack of wonderful books to choose from uh by using our Amazon Banner thank you thank you to everybody for joining us in
the garage this week thank you for telling a friend and thank you for the fstar reviews and check out our awesome
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Angie that

Missing Welch Girls /// Part 2 /// 108

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In the early morning hours of December 30th, 1999 in Welch, Oklahoma a trailer home fire is reported. Firefighters arrive and put out the blaze. The dead body of wife and mother Kathy Freeman is discovered. Her husband, daughter and a family friend are missing. Law Enforcement theorized Kathy’s husband Danny shot her, set the home on fire and abducted his daughter Ashley and her friend Lauria. The following day, to everyone’s surprise Lauria’s family looking for clues at the scene of the fire find the dead body of Danny Freeman. Tonight we gather in the garage and discuss what could have possibly happened that night in the trailer. We also want to know what happened to Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible.

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved murders of the Freeman family and the disappearance of Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible, exploring various theories and suspects.

Key points

The Disappearance of Ashley Freeman. Marking the 10th anniversary of the murders of Danny and Kathy Freeman and the disappearance of their daughter Ashley and her friend Laura.
Conspiracy Theories Unfold. Exploring theories around the unsolved murders and disappearances, including police involvement.
Jailhouse Confessions. Multiple inmates claim knowledge of the missing girls' whereabouts, leading to a police raid.
Tommy Lynn Sells' Claim. A notorious serial killer claims he knows where the missing girls are buried.
Jeremy Jones' Confession. A man with a violent past confesses to the abduction and murder of the Freeman girls.
The Burning Trailer Incident. Two girls escape a burning trailer, unaware of the horror that unfolded inside.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I never would have thought...

Reflecting on police involvement in unsolved cases

6:31WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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