Missing on Campus /// Judy Martins /// Part 2 | Forensic Files

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>> [music] >> No, no, no, no. [music] [music] Yesterday, we spoke of some of the
things that did not take place early on in the investigation into missing college campus student Judy Martin's
case. Today, let's start off by talking about some of the things that was done in the early parts of the investigation
>> were done. >> However, this is after she's been missing for 7 days. On May 31st, a
review of the radio log and vehicle registrations run that night are made. Officers are spoken to who were working
on the night in question. Nothing out of the ordinary is reported. Security Officer Matt Stro is spoken with. He
can't remember anything unusual from that night. He did report that he is familiar with Ms. Martin and that she is
prone to travel in late night hours riding a light blue 10speed bicycle. Stro also stated that she was supposedly
dressed in hooker's attire, again his words, on numerous occasions, and was seen with males associated with the drug
culture. The Lilac House Commons and Taylor Hill area were searched with negative
results. Officers investigated the following. They checked those radio logs, vehicle registrations, and checked
for student status. At that time, the student security aid incident reports for May 23rd and 24th were all checked.
All vehicles passing the Midway and Theater intersections were stopped on this day and questioned to see if they
saw anything strange on the 23rd or the 24th. The bike room at Ingelman Hall was
checked for a blue male 10-speed bike, the one that Judy would have owned. never found. Taylor Hall architecture
students were monitored for anyone who may have been there on May 23rd, 24th, and they checked the roof of Dunar, the
boiler room, and all exterior entrances. A ground search from Dunar to Engelman was conducted at this time. So, we're
seeing ground searches here, Captain. We're seeing that they're searching the buildings. is they're checking anything
that could be some kind of paper trail to either find and locate Judy or to find or locate someone that may have
seen something or heard something or somebody that should be a suspect in this case. They're coming up with
nothing here. >> Well, a couple things. College. These guys, she's known to be seen with guys
in the drug scene. It's college. The whole place is the drug scene. Where's this bike at? Why can't we find this
bike? >> The bike to me has always been a big question. This was her, you know, mode
of transportation while on campus. The bike, from my understanding, has never been recovered. In fact, that was
one of the questions that I asked uh law enforcement when we spoke with them. Has
the bike ever been recovered? And they said no. But part of that though too, they kind of said that the bike to them
is not of great concern, not 40 years later. It would have been back then and they said yes, it would have been nice
to have located that bike. But they wonder that with her missing, we don't know where the last place she left the
bike would be. If it was under lock and key, of course, it would have been found. But it could be simply somebody
stole a bike or simply someone took the bike. >> They should know where it >> I think the reason why it's not of great
importance to them all these years later is because of that night and the stories
that they have from witnesses, some of them suspects, some of them not. But independent witnesses that say that she
was not using the bike that night. >> Yeah. But here's my problem. When you say she had about a football field to
two football field lengths to go back home, that's enough to get on your bike. But then once you put that individual on
the bike, then to me, the radius in which you need to search is a lot further away because she has the
capability of, oh, if I'm if she wanted to go a couple miles down the street to a bar or something, she obviously has
the means to do so. Detectives and law enforcement will spend the following day conducting more of their investigation
and part of the day starts off with them calling everyone in Judy's address book.
No new information was gathered from those calls. Now, detectives physically searched wooded areas that surrounded
the university. A dozen security aids assisted in this search. So, they have multiple detectives along with at least,
according to the statement, a dozen security aids that are helping with this search. From my understanding, from what
I've been told, Captain is that the grounds, the campus looks much different today than it did back then. And from my
understanding is that you could walk 20 yards in one direction from some of these dorm buildings and be entering the
woods or be right in the middle of a wooded area. and a lot more lights. Now, >> they also searched Dunar, Apprentice,
and Engelman Hall and all the wooded areas that surrounded the health center. And across from Manchester Hall, I guess
there's a coal dump area off of Roads Road, R H O D E S Road, that was searched as well on that day. But like
you stated, uh, Judy, she went to the all boys dorm room and there was at least five individuals that we know
spoke with her. So, where are we at on questioning them? >> You're right, Captain, because now's the
point where you've spoke with them at least once or twice before. Now, you need to follow up on those interviews
because maybe someone hasn't been truthful or maybe somebody remembered something of importance from that night.
So, they speak with John Beckany again and this time he says that Judy came back to his room later that night at
some point that night and she retrieved portions of her outfit that she was wearing that night. the glasses, the
wig, and I believe the trench coat. But the the statement there, it's hard to read, so it's it's tough for me to
translate what what that other word is, but at least his statement says that she
came back to his dorm, retrieved the glasses and the wig, and she put them back on, and then left. This is
interesting here because this actually contradicts his statement that he gave to them before. Remember, he says the
slight variation being that he with a friend left to go to 7-Eleven and that he gave these items to her before they
left, before he and the friend left. We also have Jim Kratchic who is interviewed again and in this interview
he's basically saying all the same stuff. He does say that uh he signs a voluntary consent to have his car and
his room searched. And they do follow up on this and they say that no signs of violence or any evidence was found in
either of his vehicle or his room. At this time, he does agree to take a polygraph. Now, we've mentioned
polygraph several times already in this investigation and throughout our story. And what I want to point out here is
there are a lot of people that do end up taking polygraphs. What we are seeing in
the initial portion of this investigation, Captain, is people agreeing to a polygraph. So when we say
that someone agreed to a polygraph, that doesn't mean that they were immediately
sat down and administered the test right then and there or even that same day. >> Right?
>> Here's where we come to another interesting and kind of strange portion or event in our timeline. This is on
June 2nd, 1978. So she's been missing for over a week at this point. And the report that police get is that Judy
allegedly was reported to be at a garage sale. And while she's at the garage sale, hey, little little bit of
self-promotion here. We're always having a garage sale at true crimegar.com. >> Click on the store page.
>> Judy is allegedly at this garage sale. She's speaking with the homeowners that
are conducting the sale and she tells them that she was thinking about going to South America or to Mexico and also
mentions hitchhiking. Maybe that's going to be her method of getting to South America or Mexico. And she was
purchasing some garments, some clothing items for this trip. Or at least the people holding the garage sale believed
that's why she was purchasing these items. Again, just like the other eyewitness that thought he saw her get
into a vehicle, these individuals didn't know Judy personally. >> That's correct. They only know of her
because of the missing person's case and the flyers and the news that's in the newspapers. Later that same day, a man
named Jeff reported to police that he picked up a girl that he saw walking on May 31st. She was out hitchhiking. Jeff
says he does not know this girl's name, but he picked her up, offered her a ride, and states that he took her to
Taco Fiesta, sounds like a restaurant, and Main Street. And she stated during the course of this car ride, that she
was going to get some shots [snorts] so that she could go to Mexico or South America. This is interesting because
it's kind of it's in line with the garage sale story, but again, we don't know that it means that it's actually
Judy or not. But now we have the garage sale people and this Jeff guy coming forward independently of one another,
both saying that they believe they may have spoke to and seen Judy after she supposedly had disappeared.
>> But let's go back to her onagain off-again boyfriend, Jim Young. Jim Young on this day captain on June 2nd he
is interviewed at Avon Lake Police Department and they do they tape the interview. From this interview they
learn more about Mr. Jim Young and during the interview he does consent to searches of his car and his apartment
which were later conducted and they report negative results meaning they found nothing of evidentiary value in
either search. But during this interview, Captain Jim Young tells the police because he's asked during this
interview, "Do you own any firearms?" And he says, "Yes, I own several firearms." But apparently shortly before
Judy's disappearance, he shot out the window of his apartment. Like accidentally fired the gun or the
gun went off and it shot out his window. >> You'll shoot your eye out, kid. Now he
tells them, "I own several firearms and you, the police, should know that because after I accidentally shot out my
window, you confiscated all of my guns because I have a pending trial for this incident." So all of his guns were in
police custody at the time that Judy went missing. He also states that he does not have any knowledge of Judy
using any hard drugs. Young also states that Judy told him that she was seeing someone at Kent State who was in ROC and
that he was a nice guy but did not know the name of this individual. One thing that I find interesting here too,
Captain, is that Jim Young also states to police and detectives that he wouldn't think that Judy would run away,
that she would take off on her own. He said, "Yeah, she was impulsive at times and she would like to do, you know, fun
or wild things at times." He goes, >> "She is spontaneous. >> That was not her personality is what he
was saying. That that he that she wouldn't just take off." And I find that interesting because he is very much
considered a suspect at that time. And for him to state that, it's almost eliminating an out that he might have if
he in fact did do something bad that if he is responsible in any way for her disappearance.
>> Well, same with the hard drugs. >> But a key thing here, we've talked about polygraph test and please don't throw
tomatoes or eggs at me. We we all have the same suspicions of these tests, but it should be noted when we are going to
talk about these that Jim Young took a polygraph test and he actually took his polygraph test at BCI.
Yeah. >> So at the BCI office there's if you want to set a bar high, it would be tough to
set it any higher than that for portions of Ohio. Well, I think one of the main reasons why me and you don't like him as
a as the number one suspect would be the distance away. >> Yeah. He may not have an alibi for that
night. He says that he was home. It was it was the middle of the week. He said he was home doing normal stuff. He had
to work that day, work the next morning. He said, "I don't really have anybody that can verify that I was at home
because I was at home by myself." But according to BCI, he passes the polygraph test. And as you just pointed
out, Captain, he's at minimum an hour's drive away where we have several individuals by their own admissions that
they were there with her that night close to the time that she magically disappears. So, it's just another
obstacle that gets in the way to make him a suspect of any priority over these others. So, normally I would like the
boyfriend or the exlover to be looked at pretty hard, but I think in this case the distance and also I like the fact
that he is the one that points out look she's not somebody to run away to me. If
you want to if you're guilty you're going to go you're going to throw out the kitchen sink. Well, she could have
ran away with this other guy. She could have she always wanted to live in Chicago, you know, just make up a bunch
of random stories to get the cops looking all over the place. >> And he's very cooperative with the
investigation. It seems to me I get the impression that this is a guy that did care for her at one time, probably still
cared for her, and he's just trying to help. >> I think he's the closest to being ruled
out, but obviously they're not ruling out individuals in this the case. Are you ready for some more strange?
>> Yeah. >> In the timeline. This >> time >> for some strange >> Yeah. To me, this is one of the more
bizarre points in the or events in the timeline. On June 2nd, Detective Ross Jamerson of the This This is weird
because now we're going to see a whole different agency. We've talked about Avon Lake Police Department, the Kent
State Police Department. this when you have this kind of case going on, this is receiving some media attention and what
it looks like to me reviewing the file here, Captain, is that we have people that want to help
that they see something or hear something, they want to pass along the information to the proper channels, they
just don't know who to report it to. >> Mhm. >> So, now we're going to see a third
agency get involved. And this is Detective Jamerson of the Portage County Sheriff's Office who calls to advise
that Daryl Dunlop, their dispatcher at the Sheriff's Office, received a call from WHL
radio, that's a radio station that's still around today from my understanding, advising that they
received an anonymous call from a male caller who stated that Judy Martins could be located buried under a stack of
pine branches. is a quarter of a mile from a burned down cabin at Pippen Lake. This would be in Towner's Woods Park
area in Brady Lake off of Rava Road. Detective Jamerson also stated that an individual named Jack Gray has been
hanging around campus and the courthouse in Rava talking about Towner's Woods and
that this Jack Gray said that he had done something bad in Towner's Woods. So, the sheriff's office is calling to
report two things. These are I I don't want them to get mixed together. These are two different things. There's an
anonymous caller that called into a radio station claiming to know where Judy was buried. And also, there's this
weirdo guy who's hanging around the campus or in the courthouse and he's saying that he had done something bad in
Towner's Woods. So, this is just this detective doing his due diligence pointing out like this anonymous call
came in. We're not saying it's from this Jack Gray, >> right? >> We're simply saying that we also have an
individual that said he did something bad in Towner's Woods, which is a similar, you know, generally it's the
same location as where this anonymous caller is saying you would find the body of our missing individual.
>> Well, with technology and some a little bit of police work, maybe they're able
to identify this anonymous caller. Well, and what was great too, Captain, was the
DJ that took the call, the anonymous call, >> did try to pry some information from the
caller. >> He said, "Hey, hey, what's your 20? >> Hey, we're playing rock and roll all
night." >> WNBC >> WNBC. >> So, they interview the DJ and they talk with anybody that they can talk to at
the radio station. >> His name was Rock and Roll Ralph. and they said that the anonymous caller,
while they didn't give their name or refused to give their name, did provide an address. Now, of course, the caller
could just be throwing out somebody else's address, but they tracked down the address to an individual that they
kind of knew or that one of the police agencies somewhat knew to a John Edmonds. Now, his name is actually
reported differently in a couple different spots. Some places he's John Edwards, but the majority of the time is
John Edmonds. I think that's just a typo that it was in fact John Edmonds. Police
kind of knew who this guy was, and I think it's because he's he's out there, man. And so the detectives learn, they
go to this address, the the address that was given belongs to this John Edmonds,
and he claims to have psychic powers. >> Possible. You never know. >> You never know. Uh the other description
that they get from the DJ was that the caller was described as sounding fairly old and maybe having respiratory
problems. They don't ever state anything about John Edmonds having [snorts] respiratory problems or if he sounded to
be old, but he was not an old individual at the time of them going and speaking with him. He agrees to take them to a
location in Towner's Woods. What I'm getting at here, Captain, is while the caller could have just given some
fictitious address, it sounds to me like when you go to the address and the guy's like, "Yeah, I
have psychic powers and yes, I'll go to that spot with you in the woods." That sounds to me like confirmation that he
was the caller. They go to this spot in Towner's Woods and of course, they don't
locate Judy Martins's buried anywhere at that point. But this John Edmonds, to his credit, seems to be cooperative,
you know, regardless of his his situation. That same day, Nancy Martins, remember this is Judy's younger sister.
She calls the police department and she says that she went and spoke with the couple that was hosting the garage sale
and had a long conversation with them. And they talked about the girl that could be her sister being at the garage
sale. and this girl wanted to go to Mexico or South America. Now, Nancy said after having this long conversation with
those two individuals, she believed that they were in fact trying to help and that they probably did see and have the
conversation that they said they had, but things that they stated about the person that they spoke with at the
garage sale, she's telling police like, "This wasn't my sister. It may have looked like her. She may have been about
the same age, but there were things that they were telling me about this person that do not line up with my sister.
>> Some good news in this investigation. They are able to locate the individual that they believe was at that garage
sale. >> The mystery garage sale customer. Yes. On June 5th, Detective Brandon located a
female named Lorie Gumbinder. She is the subject seen at the garage sale by the Sniders. they were the ones hosting and
the girl. This was also confirmed that Jeff, remember, he gave somebody a ride, a hitchhiker a ride. When shown a
picture of this Lori individual, he agrees. Yes, that's yes. Not only was she the one at the garage sale, but
she's also the girl that I picked up, the young lady that I picked up, >> right? So, she was located and spoken
with. And this was some good detective work because what he did was he went to a location where you would go to get
your photo taken for for a passport. So, he goes there with pictures of Judy Martin saying, "Hey, have you seen
anybody that looks like her or her that came in here to get a passport so that they could go to Mexico or South
America?" That's how he ends up tracking down this individual. So Nancy Martin's,
the younger sister, her suspicions were confirmed that it was not her sister at the garage sale that day.
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to the windows to the walls. Cheers everybody. Cheers to you Colonel. So much more more twists to get into the
Judy Martin's case. >> The case just keeps getting stranger and stranger as we go along here, but nice
to get some answers along the way. >> Paul, let me throw out something for you. And one of the things that was
interesting in this case was, you know, she went missing in 78. This is around the time the world would know a certain
individual or come to know a certain individual, Ted Bundy. And a lot of people when she first went missing
started there was rumors flying around because here's this guy that he went to college. Uh he would have been traveling
all over the country possibly. And is it possible because she looks so much like
his typical victim? But one of the things that you pointed out because you're the goat is most
>> if not all >> if not all victims of Ted Bundy were found. >> And if it's your lunch break or
breakfast time, cover your ears, people, because that his victims were found simply
because he didn't bury them. He didn't bury them because he would return and do things with the body,
>> have sex with it. >> That's right. And so that all kind of makes sense and that's why I feel like
we can't really place him in this area at that time of the night in question. And there was one individual that again
we don't know. We'd have to see hardcore evidence of this, but one individual at
least that states that Bundy was probably locked up or was in fact locked up at that time, which seems accurate to
me. uh he did have some ties to Pennsylvania, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he could
be in the area or passing through the area. And of course, a lot of his victims were in fact collegeaged
students. >> Yeah. And he would have been serving time in 78 in um serving time in
Florida. >> Oh, this was after the Florida. >> So this would have been >> Yeah. So he It's not Bundy then. We can.
Sounds like we can put a a bow on that one. >> Yeah, put a bow on Bundy and also ban
the tan sedan. >> And I think too here, Captain Bundy makes an interesting leap to another serial killer who has
been thought of or actually two other serial killers who have been considered as suspects or persons of interest in
this case. >> The first being a William John Posey Jr. He's of significant interest to me and
to this case because he is a serial killer, a known identified serial killer of two women or some say at least two
women. And he was also known to be living in the Kent area at this time. >> All right, that's interesting.
>> Back in 78. In fact, in one article, he lived a 10-minute drive from the college
campus and was found hiding in the bedroom closet of a woman who he did not know or
who did not know him. >> Creeper >> in Kent. And this is according to Assistant Chief of Police John Peach.
So, a couple issues with this individual. One, same as Bundy is we don't even know. Yes, he had an
apartment not that far blocks away from campus, but that doesn't mean he was in the area
at the time. And there's some reports, not confirmed, but that there's some reports that he was actually in jail
that night in Columbus, Ohio. >> Yeah. So, the the statement is that he was locked up at least in the afternoon
or evening hours of May 24th, 1978. I don't know when he went into lockup or into the jail, but they have
confirmation that he was in jail at that time. So, that would be an issue for him
to get rid of this body if he was involved in the disappearance that took place in the early morning hours of May
24th. The other thing with Posie that I found very interesting in regards >> or he's in Columbus getting rid of the
body. >> That's true. Good point. Uh, one thing that I find interesting about Posey
though, and this is coming from law enforcement, they firmly believe, and of course nothing's 100% until this case is
solved, but they firmly believe that had Posie killed Judy Martins, that he would
have told them. So, he confessed the two murders that he committed, he confessed
to both of them. And in one case, he tried to lead them to the body that's never been recovered. And I think that's
another suspicion that people on the outside have that go, well, not only did he kill two college-aged females, but in
one case, the body was never recovered. And that's what we have here in Judy's case. So, that's the similarities. But
for me, I think that's where the similarities end because one of the murders, Captain, he was suspected of
and actually convicted of the kidnapping of this young woman, never convicted of
having killed her. It was him. It was Posey who went out of his way when he was diagnosed to be terminally ill.
He reached out to law enforcement and said, "By the way, I did kill this young woman, and this is how I did
it. This is where I did it. This is why I did it, and I will lead you to her body."
And those officials have stated outwardly that this man, yes, he was a murderer. He's a horrible individual,
but he was trying to get right with God before he died. He wanted to confess to everything that he had done. He wanted
to try to wipe the slate clean, if you will. >> Yeah. And you know me, I don't like to
trust guys that use fake names, but what was the fake name he used? >> You I knew you were going to put me on
the spot and try to make me pronounce it. >> You say it and not me. It looks like if
I were to spell this, it almost looks like scorpion, but it looks like he was using the name
John Ty Scorpini or Scorpani. >> Scorpini. Yeah. >> But, uh, it looks like a >> Scorpini cuz he had a little weenie.
>> It looks to me almost like the word scorpion with an with a few extra vowels in it.
>> Yeah. >> Here's where things get a little more crazy. if they weren't crazy enough for
you yet. If your if your head's not spinning like a top, then there's something you have your own issues.
>> Here's the problem with this case is when you first hear, you go, "Okay, well, there's not a lot of evidence."
And there's not, but the speculation and the twists and turns around what we don't know,
>> there's a lot there. >> There's certainly a lot. and to pile it on more, we have this really great
article that ran about the case in August of 1983. And anybody that that's able to locate this or wants some more
information on this case, this would be the first place that I direct them to. It's an August 7th article in the plane
dealer of 1983. And it it was a magazine, you know, that's a newspaper, but they also had a
a weekly magazine or monthly magazine. Mhm. >> They ran a story that's simply titled,
"Where is Judy Martins?" And it's a really good informative article on the case and you have officers reflecting on
the case 5 years after she's been missing and telling you what they did right and what they did wrong. And this
article really drums up a lot of information and a lot of excitement from the general public and it really causes
a lot of people to start coming forward. In fact, there was one detective that later said that this
article in this magazine brought a lot of people out of the woodwork that they started to get some
more information on the case and maybe a lot of it was bad information. But what
this directly leads to, Captain, is within a very short period of time, the Avon Lake Police Department receives a
phone call stating that this is from an individual that works in law enforcement
and states, you know, on this night very recently, we had someone, a woman that was brought in for prostitution charges
being held here in our jail, and that it was Judy Martins. I'm telling you that's who we saw. Now,
this is 5 years after the fact. The law enforcement agency basically says, "Look, it does resemble her. It
could be her. Although it looks like, you know, not only has she aged 5 years, but maybe drugs and a hard life have
aged her considerably in that fiveyear time period. There's so much weight given to this that Judy Martins must
have dropped out of school, headed out of town, and became a street walker in Cleveland that they start writing an
article. There's a individual that wrote a lengthy article about this situation and states all the similarities between
the two. Well, the first one we should point out is that when this female was booked at the jail, she gives the name
Judy Martinez, right? That's not a not a far jump from Judy Martins. >> That's one. Number two, she looks almost
identical to Judy Martins. >> Yes. Add add in the drugs and the hard life. >> Right. Right.
>> But they're practically the same height. They look very similar. And this article
that I read even states that they had the same birthark. I mean, it goes on and on. It just rattles off a whole
bunch of >> What's what people need to know is that Judy at the time that she went missing,
they didn't have her fingerprints on file. So, they couldn't even test for finger
fingerprints at that time. And they would they were under the belief that this individual, this Judy Martinez,
would not tell them, would not be honest if she was in fact Judy Martins. So, they get Judy Martin's family involved
in this. Her her mom, her dad, her brother, her sister. >> This is where it gets even more wild.
>> They go down there and they meet this individual. And you say more wild, but I've actually seen, read, heard multiple
versions of this story and this portion of the story anyway. And some of those versions say that
Judy's mother believed it was Judy. Other other versions of the story state that the family knew almost
instantaneously that it was not her. That they as much as they wanted it to be her, it was not. And they even felt
that this this reporter that wrote several articles or at least one lengthy article about this situation that he may
have embellished a little bit on the similarities between Judy Martinez and Judy Martins and made it sound, you
know, like it was in fact the same person before delivering at the end that it was not
>> right >> now. based off of they based this off of dental records that Judy Martins had her
four wisdom teeth removed and this individual still had her four wisdom teeth. And of course, somebody then
reports a week or so later that on very very very rare occasions someone can have these teeth removed and they can
grow back. I don't know if that's I don't know if that's real or not. I've been told that that's a real thing, but
I'm not a dentist. I don't play one on TV and I'm not going to pretend to know >> the rumors can grow back.
>> Yeah, but the rumor is you're anti- dentite. >> My my wisdom teeth have not grown back.
I can I can only report what I know. >> Makes a lot of sense now. Well, you also
heard that they did a handwriting sample. >> Yes. >> And do you know what the outcome of that
was? I've seen I've seen that it matched, >> but I'm not a big >> 95%. >> And that's great. And
>> now now hold on just I want I want people to understand s have this sink in a little bit. For the most part, I don't
buy the whole polygraph thing. Take it or leave it. I think it's a it's a it's a barometer. If they don't want to take
the test, it's a barometer of where they're at. And that's why I believe that we should administer the test. It
shouldn't be allowed in the court. No, no, no, no. But this joke of a science should never be allowed in anything. And
you have family members that are saying, "Nope, that is not Judy." We we have dental records that say, "Nope, that's
not Judy." But then 95% matching to to handwriting samples that this is her. So, and and I bring this up because when
people talk about the handwriting samples in the Jab Ramsey case, just knock it off. This is junk science. Rant
over. >> Right. And I can't agree with you anymore there, Captain. There's uh there's no reason to believe other than
>> you could hug me >> some suspicions that this person was Judy Martins. In fact, the original name
she gives when she's arrested is uh Sandre Lopez and then later says that she's Judy Martinez. I my guess here is
look, she's booked and she's going to be charged with criminal activity. >> Yeah.
>> And she's probably willing to play along in some way or form. She's street smart,
right? She's going to see if, hey, if I play along with some of this, will it help me out of my current predicament?
>> Yeah. And one one time she was arrested, she said, I'm George Lopez. The next day
she says, "I'm Mario Lopez." >> Well, and in the end, she denies being Judy Martins. Her family, Judy Martin's
family says, "This is not her." Again, there's a story where Dolores believed that it was right
>> her daughter and Arthur did not believe and nobody else in the family believed.
Again, I think that portion of the story might be embellished or it's just it's just a brokenhearted woman saying or
wanting to try to believe that maybe there's a chance that this is my little girl that I've been missing and lost for
5 years. In fact, Dolores Martins goes out of her way to tell the newspapers that poor young woman that I met there
that day was not my daughter. But I'm here to tell you there was a good soul. there was a good child inside of that
woman and I feel bad for her and I wish her nothing but the best and I'm hoping that things can turn around for her.
>> Which is surprising though cuz didn't she say some mean things to the family?
>> She said, you know, at some point Judy Martins is better off dead. >> Yeah. Well, that's coming from somebody
that's in a position that she's in. >> Well, she's probably a drug addict and >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's just another
sad portion of this story where it's it's a person that's lived a hard life and probably been dealt a a bad deal.
>> Yeah. Well, and you feel so bad. Look, I I used to say people have the right to
make the decision of whatever they want, and it's not my place to tell people whether or not they're doing drugs. But
then you start realizing some of them had no choice. Some of them got in a situation where it wasn't just as simple
as, hey, I went out to party one day and then things got out of hand. some of these people legitimately get into this
situation. I just feel bad for these individuals because, you know, part of it is a is a the addiction is a sickness
and they probably want to be dead so they don't have to deal with the addiction.
But it's just sad either way. >> Well, it's a downward spiral that they really have no control over. even if
they want out and to get clean and do the right thing, >> they they really don't have in some
[snorts] cases, as sad as it may sound, don't have a choice in the matter at some point. At the end of the day here,
Captain, what we have here is a case that is over 40 years old. Nobody believes, no law enforcement agency
believes. It might sound good on the internet or on somebody else's podcast, but nobody working the case then nor
today believe that Judy Martins is alive and that she left on her own and started
a new life somewhere. I've been told and I think the evidence points to this and you brought up
something very interesting off Mike when we were discussing this case and we'll get to that in just a second. But
whoever is responsible for her going missing, their name is in this file. Their name is in that timeline of that
night in the early morning hours of the 23rd and the 24th. This was not committed by Ted Bundy. This was not
committed by William Posey. This was not committed by Sam Little. His name gets mentioned in
this case, too. A serial killer that was known to drive through Ohio and may have
>> uh several Ohio victims. Well, I think one of the things for him was he would
do drawings of his victims and sometimes try to put the date of when they went missing or roughly the time he
The tough thing about this though is he'll he'll actually write 1986 or 1976. So sometimes his dates are wildly they
they've wildly vary, but there is a couple women that could possibly match her from that area, but I don't know if
they match up in as as far as timeline goes. And there were some other missing person's cases that Judy Martin's case
gets mentioned in the same paragraph with from time to time over the years. And that's uh Yavon
Regler who was 17 and went missing from that same area. U not a college student.
She was working at a gas station by herself and it looks to me like somebody abducted her at the gas station. There
was a Kathy Marorrow, a 22. Yavon Regler and Judy Martins are still missing to this day. I could not find
and I spent a good deal of time on this and it was a fruitless search here. Captain, I could not find any update on
Kathy Marorrow's case, whether she was ever located, found dead or or murdered or, you know, any of those bad news
things. I couldn't locate anything on her. I have suspicions that she was probably found because Yavon and Judy
are both still listed on the Charlie Project's website and other places where Kathy Marorrow is no longer listed or
was never entered on those databases. And I find the the Charlie Project website to be incredibly accurate, one
of the more accurate, if not the most accurate one out there when it comes to nationwide missing persons. And if
you're into missing person cases as much as I am, please take the time, even just
as much of a as a Starbucks cup of coffee, $5 goes a long way to supporting them and their research and all the time
that they spend. It's well worth it because if you've listened to podcasts throughout the years, you've probably
listened to hundreds of cases and they all pretty much reference the Charlie Project. You're exactly right, Captain.
There are many podcasters, many internet sleuths and u YouTubers that use this Charlie Project website, and it's
charlie project.org. For those that are not familiar, it's uh Charlie with a Y. Go and take a little looks on on that
website. Megan Good runs the website and is doing very, very good work, as I like
to say. And I hope those other podcasters and YouTubers are regular donors to her and to the Charlie Project
because I hope and pray that that never goes away. But again, Captain, this case, sadly, we're looking for a body
here. And another sad aspect of this, law enforcement has basically said, you know, if we would have had a body early
on, this investigation would have went completely different. and they believe that the person or persons responsible
would already be in custody, that this would be an easy case for them to to execute. Uh even with the blunders and
the delay of Kent State, but Avon Lake did good work on this. The Portage County Sheriff's Office did good work on
this. The US Marshalss were brought in on this case and those guys and girls are no slouches at all. In fact, they
were brought in because of the Posie portion of this case because he was actually apprehended in Texas. And the
two women that he killed >> were not from Ohio. He he lived in other states throughout different portions of
his life. In fact, I believe one was in Vermont. a girl that he knew, a woman that he knew in Vermont, and one was a
woman in Illinois. So, they're brought in once we have somebody who's already in custody, and we have cases that are
going from state to state to state. And so in this case here, we are really looking for a body or looking for any of
those missing items that were never located, the wig, the imitation leather purse, any of those garments that she
may have been wearing that night or any any form of identification or anything that she would have had with her that
night. That is what they are currently looking for. And circling back to one of the most powerful things in this case,
and it's something that you said to me before we hit record when we were just chilling in the garage and kind of
spitballing about the case. You said to me, >> I said, "Do you want a hit of this
doobie?" You said at any point >> in your research, could you find could you find someone saying that Judy
Martins told them that she was returning to her room after hanging out with different people that night? Now,
there's one portion in the timeline where she does tell a friend at her dorm building that she might return to her
friend's dorm after going over to visit with some of the fellas over at the male
dormatory. >> Mhm. But at no point out of all of these guys that saw her toward the end of the
night and leading up to her disappearance and none of their statements does any of them say that she
said that she was returning to her dorm. Now, a lot of people would go, "Well, doesn't that call into question the idea
that maybe she was taking off or maybe she went elsewhere and could have been abducted elsewhere?" Of course it does.
But here's what I want to point out. Judy Martins probably did not have the opportunity to say that to anyone
because this was probably not a planned murder. Something happened in the course
of a conversation or activities that night that led to some kind of struggle. She didn't have the opportunity to say
that she was going home that night because somebody stopped her from going home that night. And I think we talk
about this from time to time here in the garage. Unfortunately, in some cases, the perpetrator or perpetrators get
lucky. And here we might have that situation, Captain, where all of the students leaving campus and the holiday
break coming up and Kent State not jumping in right away on this may have helped the perpetrator
or perpetrators get rid of this body and conceal this body and it's not been found. And they
got rid of evidence. They cleaned things up. They got their stories together. >> Yeah. To me, it's very simple. She was
We have no eyewitness that saw her after she was in the all male dorm room. >> And I just as much as the next guy or
girl love a good story, right? I love a good mystery. It's very intriguing to hear that, oh, there was this mysterious
person that was arrested for charges in Cleveland and she looked just like Judy Martins and had the same birth date and
birthark and this that and the other thing. There's this mysterious shopper at a garage sale who looked just like
Judy and said that she was going to South America. >> That stuff is very intriguing. It wasn't
her at that garage sale. It wasn't her who was picked up in Cleveland. Sometimes a cigar is just a smoke. And
sometimes the the answer is obvious and it's right there in front of you. And here that's exactly what we have with
this case. Those people, those individuals that by their own admission said that they were the last ones to see
her that night, one of them or some of them are responsible for this. And one of them may have done it all by
themselves. I have a firm belief and a very strong suspicion and plenty of reason and plenty of reasons why to
believe that even if one individual took this young woman's life that they probably had some help in getting rid of
her body. >> [music] [music] >> As always, thanks for listening. Tell your friends, tell your brother, tell
your mother. >> How about some recommended reading, Captain? >> Yes, sir. >> This is a must readad. You know, there
are such weird coincidences at times in our lives. Here I was a few weeks ago discussing some case with someone.
They're telling me all about this case that I had never heard of before. The case involved twin brothers. One of them
was killed. It was originally ruled a suicide. And there's a police cover up in a pack of teenagers. This is a case
out of Columbia, Maryland in the '9s. And as this person was telling me more and more about the case, I kept saying,
"Wow, this is such an interesting case. Why have I not heard of this case before?" for. So then just a couple of
days later, I find this book called Losing John, a teen's tragic death, a police cover up, and a community's fight
for justice by David Parish. It's a book on that case. So this book kind of found me. I didn't go looking
for it, and I would not have known about this case if I hadn't been talking to the person. So I love those interesting
little coincidences. So do yourself a favor and check out Losing John by David Parish. You'll be reading through this
almost too unbelievable to be true true crime books and you'll ask yourself the same thing. Why have I not heard of this
case before? Oh, and another weird thing here, Captain, in this story. Christina
Gutierrez, the lawyer who defended Adnan Sed was the attorney for one of the major players in this story. Again,
that's Losing John, a teen's tragic death, a police cover up, and a community's fight for justice by David
Parish. And you don't have to write that title down right now because you will find it on our recommended page at
truecimeg.com. And until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter. >> [music]
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you trust, to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at angie.com.

Missing on Campus /// Judy Martins /// Part 2

Part 2 of 2

This week in the Garage, we take an in-depth look at the longstanding disappearance of Kent State University student Judy Martins.

Although many years have passed since Judy was last seen, her case remains active and continues to be investigated by law enforcement agencies. Judy was 22 years old at the time of her disappearance, and investigators are still seeking information that could help determine what happened to her and provide answers to those who knew and loved her.

Cases such as Judy’s are never truly forgotten. Even the smallest detail, memory, or piece of information may be significant and could assist investigators in moving the case forward.

Anyone with information regarding the disappearance of Judy Martins is encouraged to contact the U.S. Marshals Service at 1-866-4-WANTED or 1-866-492-6833. All information may be important.

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the investigation into missing student Judy Martins, including witness statements and potential suspects.

Key points

True Crime Garage Introduction. Welcome to True Crime Garage, where we offer free refills and kick off with a beer review.
Investigation into Judy Martin's Disappearance. Exploring the early investigation efforts into missing college student Judy Martin.
Strange Developments in the Case. Detectives receive an anonymous tip about Judy's possible location.
The Mysterious Caller. An anonymous caller provides an address linked to a man claiming psychic powers.
Garage Sale Confusion. Nancy Martins investigates a potential sighting of her sister at a garage sale.
Ted Bundy Rumors. Speculation arises about Ted Bundy's possible involvement in Judy's disappearance.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The bike has always been a big question.

Discussion about the missing bike in Judy's case.

6:50WatchJul 8, 2026

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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