Kim Wall /// Part 2 /// 240 | Forensic Files

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foreign [Music] August of 2017 30 year old Kim wall disappeared after boarding the uc3
Nautilus submarine with a man named Peter Madsen now we discussed that they had found Peter Madsen he claims that he
had dropped Kim off and then later they find the submarine and they find evidence to suggest that something very
bad had happened to Kim wall while on board the submarine but at this point they've still not found Kim wall police
in an effort to do so reconstructed the travels of the Nautilus on August 10th and 11th using radar signals from other
ships traffic that night and they conducted extensive searches of the waters the Nautilus navigated so a huge
effort made but they do not locate Kim well on August 21st a cyclist biking at 3 40 in the afternoon on a major Island
near where the Nautilus went down he found a naked mutilated torso floating on the Island's Shoreline so they find
her body 11 days after she went missing the Torso which had a belt strapped around it with several pieces of metal
piping tied to the Belt as if to weight it down the corpse was sent to the Department of forensic medicine at the
University of Copenhagen where DNA analysis confirmed that this was Kim wall Peter then embellished his story about
the accidental death to try to account for the discovery of this naked torso all right so let's let's hear what the
dick knows had to say well some of these details about his story came out in the
Press despite a court gag order put in place so that the lurid details would of what happened to Kim didn't become
tabloid fodder well when they place the gag order I think Peter started playing flicky flicky again in a September
hearing to determine whether there was sufficient evidence to continue to hold Peter pending further investigation of
the case Peter told the court that he slipped when in the subs Tower and tried to hold the hatch but it fell down Kim
who was on her way up the tower was hit in the head by the hatch she fell down the ladder and bled from an open skull
fracture this is what he said he explained that the accident horrified him and he panicked he then hauled Kim
up using a rope which resulted in her clothes being pulled off specifically he stated that her stockings and underwear
came off as a result of his pulling her up by the legs he then dropped her body into the sea and intended to commit
suicide because he was so distraught from what had just occurred soon after Kim's torso was found the prosecutor
changed the charges against Peter Madsen to manslaughter now just to be clear in
Denmark this is a greater charge not a lesser charge as it is here in the United States and Denmark this is the
equivalent of intentional homicide or premeditated murder the autopsy results and of course they were shocking They
concluded that Kim had been stabbed 14 times in and around her vagina along with at least one other stab wound on
her rib cage and others on the body it was determined that these wounds were inflicted quote around or shortly after
her death end quote the uh the autopsy could not determine whether she was strangled but there were signs of
mechanical asphyxia caused by either strangulation or slit throat Kim's limbs they could determine were likely removed
with a saw now danish military divers continued to look for the rest of Kim's body and the
water around where the sub sank this was an incredibly complicated effort requiring oceanography experts in
currents and Tides analyzing likely flow of the waters they used meteorologists to analyze the weather patterns effect
on the water in the area and Recreations of some of the exact sailing routes of the Nautilus using that radar that we
discussed earlier right and again this is 11 days after she went missing or last time she was
seen so they have to do this math and this research for the last 11 days well once investigators determine where the
body likely was they use special cadaver dogs from Sweden who were trained to sniff
through water these these amazing dogs can smell a dead body 30 meters down even after the passage of time
finally nearly two months after Kim went missing divers found her head clothing and sneakers and a knife in separate
plastic bags in the waters about 0.6 miles from where her torso was found they also found both legs all of these
body parts were weighted down with pieces of metal piping or tubes as they were described
being similar to that that was used in the Nautilus in the submarine well there's so many cases that we cover that
law enforcement will screw something up or the investigation gets screwed up or you even feel like there might be just a
lack of effort and then in this case you see law enforcement and you see this team of people gather around together
and and really go above and beyond well despite these discoveries Captain Peter stuck to his story The the Kim had been
hit in the head by the heavy hatch and died and he disposed of her body yeah he denies killing her he denies
dismembering her however a post-mortem examination of Kim's skull conducted once her head was retrieved from the bay
showed no sign of any kind of fracture or violence to the skull meaning his story is not true it's a it's a lie but
not only is it a lie but we also have evidence that shows that you're watching videos where
its vaginas being stabbed and then her vagina stabbed 14 times like that's what kind of coincidence is
that well and the interesting thing too is as we mentioned not only sticking with his story that he didn't kill her
but also that he didn't dismember her and this is even after divers found a saw with a blade consistent with
whatever tool that was used to dismember Kim Kim's body right so sometime in late
October 2017 the Copenhagen police reported that Peter now was ready to change his story once again regarding
that night in August now alleging that Kim died from carbon monoxide poisoning he said he was up on the deck of the
Nautilus and a carbon monoxide leak down below where Kim was caused by a sudden drop in the subs air pressure this is
what killed her and he states that a vacuum effect kept him from being able to open the hatch to go down and save
Kim by the time he was able to open the hatch he said I found her lifeless on the floor and I squat next to her and
tried to wake her up slapping her cheeks Peter claimed he tried for an hour to lift Kim's body out of the sub but
finally gave up and decided that the only way to get her off of this submarine was to cut her up so at this
point two months after Kim's Death Peter finally admitted to dismembering her body in the bathroom of the Nautilus
using quote whatever tools were around he told the court that he then weighed down and dumped Kim's body parts and
changed his clothes so soon after this partial confession the police found an arm in Kobe
again it was weighed down with pipes and eight days after that they found another
arm in the full indictment of Peter Madsen prosecutors alleged that on August 10th
as part of a plan to kill Kim wall Peter brought on board the submarine the following a saw knife sharpened
screwdrivers straps zip ties and pipes there are also reports that the indictment mentioned a video camera
which was missing a memory card and stating Peter bound Kim by the head arms and legs and then repeatedly Beat hit
cut and stabbed her before killing her possibly by choking or cutting her throat the indictment said
now the trial Captain would begin on March 8th 2018. let's hold up real quick because how many times how many stories
has he told so far four or five uh he's let's say four four seems right is he going to keep changing the story
because I mean this Show's only an hour long well but this is pretty commonplace
especially with these kind of Maniacs with these kind of monsters right just because it's a psychopath well what they
do is okay they're they're presented the a story okay this is what what happened
and we need an explanation so he offers one up yeah he goes what happened was and then he just starts lying out of his
stupid [ __ ] mouth right that's all he does right well when evidence is later found
and presented to him then right then he changes the story I mean let's just go back to the one where he freaked out and
didn't know what to do again you call 9-1-1 yeah you ask for help you do whatever you can you don't then to say
hey well you know now his story basically is you know he must think that everybody on this Earth is so stupid
that they're going to to believe this idea that oh Paul she did she died and then I I kneeled down beside her and I
couldn't do anything so I decided Well you know that saw that I brought on the boat today let me dismember her uh tie
her body type pipes to her body uh parts so that that they drowned and nobody can
find them and then I'll never mention her when when they when they rescue me after I fake drowning My Submarine the
fact that this [ __ ] believes that anybody is going to believe his story I mean it's just and that shows how
crazy this individual is well I don't know that he he believes anybody will believe him
he doesn't have any other options at this point I mean when when he offers up a story and then they give him I mean
other than confessing yeah it's called you're you're going away for life I'm guessing they don't have
the death penalty no and actually I don't know that they their life in prison might not be the same as our life
in prison this is a tell me that this is a country in in a lot of countries out there uh they believe in rehabilitation
and yeah don't don't believe in that well our country tried that at one point and it didn't work out very well for us
so we don't believe in Rehabilitation as much as we advertise that we do and I think it's for Lessons Learned well this
trial Captain was presided over by one professional judge and two lay judges this was an option Peter Manson chose as
opposed to a jury trial uh this seems reasonable seems like a likely option for him
if he were to be Tried by a jury they would probably be immediately shocked and horrified what they would learn
about this individual and be a quick guilty verdict so he's going to take his chances with the judges yeah and just
when I praise him I think I praised them yesterday for putting forth great effort
and now you're telling me that this guy could get out of prison well apprehension effort you know
apprehending somebody the effort made forth and that is one thing holding them for the rest of their lives is is a
different thing um we we have to keep in mind too captain we're also might not be dealing
with the normal typical situation and what I mean by that is one we are I can tell I've been listening we already
discussed the incredibly low murder rate in the area where and I'm not trying to I'm not trying to
downplay this or their effort in any manner but in other areas of the world when some when something goes unsolved
for a bit of time the detectives working that case catch another murder case at some point another file lands on their
desk another investigation is to be had and we see that a lot with cases that we've covered here in the United States
and that's why sometimes cases go cold because it's just not enough man hours or people to work those cases I mean but
this this incident is especially different yeah because it shows you I mean this shows you how messed up the
whole world really is well that's this that's the sickness it's not the whole world it's not the whole world there's
there's a small part of the world a small percentage tell me where right right right but it's everywhere it's
happening everywhere well of course right but so just tell me the place that it's not happening and let me go there
well you have to go where there's no people okay well tell me where that's at because I'm gone I'm on the break well
that some people are attempting to go to Mars at some point and live and occupy that space while seeing Mars then yeah
but if there's more than if there's some people there at some point there's going to be a murder great
I mean look it's it's I'll keep doing the show until there's a murder on Mars everywhere that there's cats and birds
a cat kills a bird that's just the way that the world Works what are you trying to say about cats it's the way that the
world works okay so we're talking about the trial here Peter stuck to his story about Kim perishing
from carbon monoxide poisoning aboard the submarine but on the stand he was almost seemed delusional at times he was
referring to himself in both the first and third person and frequently switched between
present and past tense saying things like Kim was having the time of her life and Peter is talking a lot and he is
happily sharing his dreams with Kim per the indictment prosecutors argued that Peter had planned the murder
furthermore the prosecution intended to show that Peter and teddon to make a snuff film directed by him and starring
what would later be the victim there were 35 Witnesses in this trial which lasted five weeks so do they
believe that he was just faking this nonsense on on the stand or was this something that they think
was happening naturally I think this was happening naturally I don't have any of their opinions on on
this and um this is not a trial to determine his State of Mind this is simply a trial to
determine his guilt and in this situation where you have a guy that appears to be very guilty and
there's evidence as such it's also more important as to what he is in fact guilty of he's guilty of something what
in fact was that and keep in mind it's the premeditated murder that they are accusing him of so Peter now has an
answer as to why there are stab wounds on the Torso and he states that when in panicked when he was trying to get rid
of the body he stabbed the Torso to release the natural gases that would you know allow the Torso to sink so it
wouldn't float up and be found easily found well that's going to make it could make it
difficult for the prosecution to determine how she was killed or if in fact she had died from that carbon
monoxide poisoning as Peter was suggesting what they could find is we have scientists who would testify during the
course of this trial and they would testify stating that there were no toxic fumes found in the lungs of Kim wall
meaning she didn't she didn't breathe anything in that would kill her and they also testified that while an event like
that is possible the event that Peter described is possible one we have to keep in mind the guy
practically built by himself this submarine I mean with the assistance of the the company that he founded he built
the submarine so he fully understands the way that this thing would operate as well as the way that defects would take
place and accidents could occur so when he gives you a detailed statement of this is how she died because this
happened well he's going to give you something that is likely or or that is a possibility at least let's say so while
the scientists would agree with that possibility the thing that they pointed out is for that event to have occurred
the way that he stated that there would have had been some kind of uh extreme heat event on the submarine meaning a
fire an explosion or something of that nature causing the heat to rise to such a level that that event occurred well
the problem with Peter's story is when they look at the submarine and evidence found on the submarine it would be
obvious if that kind of event occurred to begin with to to to have the cause and effect the domino effect of having
this carbon monoxide event take place so there was no heat there was nothing destroyed by extreme amounts of heat on
the submarine so they're able to practically rule that whole thing out regardless of Peter sticking to his
story foreign we're back cheers mates cheers Captain so as the uh trial went on the
prosecutors weren't able to fully establish nor prove exactly how Kim wall died okay now what they could conclude
was that at some point air to the lungs stopped so that could be the result of several different things however all the
other evidence Point toward her being murdered by Peter Manson and these things were as follows one we have
people co-workers of his that would testify that those items that the prosecution states that he brought on
board the the saw the screwdrivers knives zip ties things of that nature all those
items that they listed those co-workers suggested and said on the stand these are not items we would expect
somebody to bring on to the sub these were items that you would expect someone to bring if they were going to
murder maybe torture and dismember somebody right so we have that testimony as well as we have the prosecution who
would focus on those the clips from the snuff films the torture porn whatever you want to call it they would focus on
those clips so people in the courtroom the judges and the journalists that were there they were forced to watch some of
these clips now after a while the judges said hey you got to stop this we can't just keep showing these things all day
long one us as judges can't sit through this and the journalists can't handle it
as well yeah and then everybody had to put on boots because Peter kept drooling so much while they're watching these
clips well it's going to be a lot of this kind of stuff that would lead to the unanimous decision that found him
guilty uh and he was guilty on all counts in the indictment good good so the three major charges were
premeditated murder aggravated sexual assault and desecrating a corpse the judge declared the sentence without
hesitation or delay saying this is a cynical and pre-planned sexual assault of a particularly brutal
nature on a random woman who in connection with her journalistic work accepted an invitation for a sailing
trip on the accused submarine explaining the rare decision to hand down Denmark's most severe sentence life
in prison now again no possibility of parole well I it's again it their system is not the
same as ours just to be completely clear this is a rare decision to give out a life sentence and and where I said
earlier that I didn't even think he got life what I mean by that is we know even
in this country life does not always mean life right so even that it's unusual for a life sentence to be handed
down for the murder of a single person in Denmark it's rare because what mean we mean here
is prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment serve an average of 16 years they are then entitled to periodic
reviews of their sentence beginning at 12 years and usually only serve 16. Denmark places heavy emphasis as we said
earlier on Rehabilitation there are currently only 25 inmates serving life terms in that country and Peter Madsen
was only the 15th person in 10 years to receive that sentence now there is another option that may
keep Peter Manson behind bars for longer this is a term called safe custody so this would be a legal alternative which
would keep him behind bars indefinitely as long as he is deemed dangerous that he cannot be in society with anybody
else so I don't really want to put an estimate on how long Peter will be in prison I don't feel
comfortable or confident in an answer for that because I don't fully understand their SI their system yeah
okay and I'm just always going to think it's sad that somebody could take somebody's life and then only spend that
short amount of time in prison I just think that's always going to be ridiculous to me well hopefully in this
situation life will mean life and let's so let's talk about this for a minute because where we have a country that
really firmly believes in Rehabilitation let's examine our subject the the person
that is now serving life in prison and we know we can't say 100 percent what this guy
did we have a pretty darn good idea right we've we've we've nailed it down pretty good I think yeah but even if
parts of his story are true that the initial something initially happened that was
you know to cause her death which I don't believe at all but if let's just say that is true then his warped sick
mind decided that it'd be better to cut her up and then again type type Hypes around
her body parts to try to make them sink yeah nobody believes his story or I I don't even think people believe parts of
his story and the the sentence and the guilty verdict shows that so in regards to him and what drove him to this level
of Madness yeah was it nature or was it nurture and that's always been the argument in most of these cases and I
think if we for me to give my full opinion on that I need to tell you a little bit more about
Peter Manson um and what we do know about him we do know that he was raised by an alcoholic
abusive father it seems as though that Peter might not have been the object of that abuse meaning there were
Step Brothers that he had that seemed to receive quite a bit of abuse as well and
I'm sorry as where Peter was not abused by this man who was his actual father and we have these statements by him as
well as his family members but the relationship between him and his father was weird and so was that of him and his
mother the mother left his father because of the abuse to the children to her other
three sons and she took her three sons and protected them and they went to live with her she left Peter with with his
father where Peter's father Carl encouraged Peter's fascination with rockets submarines and balloons even building
him a workshop at their home Peter began experimenting with explosives when he was just six years
old and by the time he was 15 Peter was devoted exclusively to his projects foregoing his studies and social life
this is when he started his own company Danish Space Academy to which he took to
stating studying engineering now he studied engineering but he quit once he determined that he already knew
enough to build submarines and Rockets and we would see this type of behavior from Peter throughout his earlier years
where he would go into like these apprenticeships for welding Refrigeration engineering things that he
would need to know and learn to further his creation of submarines and Rockets well in every situation he would
determine at some point that he knew more than the mentor that he was learning for him I love these guys
they're smarter than everybody the smartest guy in the room all the time well eventually in 2004 Peter and a
former NASA contractor founded Copenhagen sub-orbitals so this was set up so that they could
build submarines and they started this off in a rusty Hangar Peter actually moved into the hangar where he lived and
worked on these projects full time sub-orbitals built its first submarine uh the Freya which was a minor success
but then they went on to build this uc3 not Nautilus that we had discussed so many times right submarine the privately
funded this is basically a a DIY summary so we see this company that he founded have great success in 2004 this
is what makes him that local minor celebrity that we talked about but in 2011 Copenhagen sub-orbitals they launched
the heat 1X rocket now this made Peter a much bigger celebrity Peter became known
as Denmark in Denmark as Rocket Madsen by all accounts the attention and praise made Madsen even more strange so look
the basics of this is Captain this dude he was already a little weird but this dude quickly became more strange and
more weird and not in a good way right so when he had his first success back in 2004 this is when he also became heavily
involved in group sex BDSM and swinger events and he also described himself at that time as a
sadist and auto-erotically active whatever that means but in 2014 I'm sorry 2011 with this new success and as
stated he's becoming even more strange he's starting to get into arguments and not getting along with any of his
colleagues or business partners the success went to his head he's an egomaniac okay and he starts alienating
himself from his colleagues and he accused his business partner of prioritizing his family over their work
projects so in 2014 when he had a falling out with the suborbitals partners they booted him out of the
company so in retaliation he started his own competing company rocket Madsen space
lab in a hangar across the paved lot from Copenhagen suborbitals right so in August of 2017 Peter was they're
competing all right both of them are trying to launch a space rocket at about the same time but Peter's married at
this point right yes he he had an open marriage and I don't know that he spent a whole
lot of time with his wife right so we have just open to not sleeping with him well we have both of these
companies competing to be the first to send their rocket into space okay and in 2017 and August leading up to the murder
of Ken Wall Peter starts experiencing some setbacks with his projects so the launch of his new rocket the alpha was
planned for August 26th this was supposed to mean a significant victory for Peter over his Rivals suborbitals
but cash flow problems and other problems stopped the launch suborbitals was also testing a rocket at that same
week so a huge emotional setback extremely upsetting for Peter and egomaniac and his company appeared to
his old company anyway appeared to be getting the better of him yeah and he's right there to see it well after this
cancellation many people would describe Peter's Behavior as manic and then we have a situation that on
August 10th the same day that Kim wall gets on the submarine with him earlier that day he's doing an interview with a
woman named Emma Sullivan who is interviewing him for a documentary she described him as having a quote strange
energy and during the interview Peter stated that he might be psychopathic what I'm getting at with all of this
Captain is we see this individual and we've seen this from other individuals that would go on to commit serial murder
we see a guy that obviously has fantasies that involve violence and sex at the same time very violent sexual
acts and this is a these are fantasies that we can trace back as early as 2004. per what is found on his computer and
phone right but let's come on let's just assume that he was having some of these
before he started looking stuff up on that computer and phone well probably something drove him to that but I I
don't need to assume anything because we know at the very least 2004 and then we
have 13 years of this continued behavior of these fantasies building and building
inside of this guy as well as something else that's occurring during this time his world
that he spent so much time to create it's kind of falling apart and he is obviously unraveling people see this it
starts with him losing the company that he co-founded with another individual right and then it starts then it
continues with the failure of his new company the only way his new company was going to be successful in his mind was
if it defeated his old company right and when that came into into the vision of I'm not going to beat
these guys there are things that I can't get over this is the trigger this is the trigger
that they often talk about when we have people that have violent sexual fantasies
that there's something that will trigger them it could be a divorce it could be a
loss of a loved one or a Breaking Point a breaking point exactly and this I think was his breaking point and what we
see here is that at some point in August he starts inviting women that he had met
kind of randomly you know per chance people that wanted to interview him people that he met
while he was out walking around or out in public that he barely knew these people he's inviting these women by
themselves on the submarine with him by himself and I think what we see here is where Ted Bundy had his Volkswagen VW
Bug and we talked about that being as much of a murder weapon as any of the other weapons that he used to kill these
women this is the making to me of a serial killer this is Peter Madsen who has already decided that his life is worth a
lot more than yours and mine and everybody else is out there yes because he's smarter than everybody his sexual
fantasies are that important that they mean more to him than you me and everybody else out there and if he can
get you on his submarine and get you alone and unfortunately Kim wall was a very smart driven person
she was on that submarine because of her work because of her passion and it's a it's a situation of
unfortunately she was in the wrong place at the wrong time well what sucks too is
that she talked to him before She interviewed him before earlier that day and and thought he was acting strange
yeah straight up says he's weird pretty much to her boyfriend and unfortunately this guy this this monster in the making
was casting a net time and time again and hoping to catch something and he got her alone on that submarine and I tell
you what If he if he could have gone away with this there's no doubt no doubt in my
mind 100 he would have attempted to do the same thing time and time again until he was caught well and because of the
stress because these different breaking points I also and also you know people that are saying that he's possibly manic
or some level of manic that's probably what got him caught and so we should be thankful for that
because you know to create these things and go on these Endeavors you have to be somewhat intelligent and so I think
if he was if Peter was in his right mind and maybe not manic and he knew he could
actually plan it out better this is an individual especially with the tools of having Rockets having
submarines that this individual could probably get away with multiple murders before getting caught and I believe
because of his the stress level and His Manic states that that's probably what led him to getting caught and thank God
he wasn't good at murder because like you like you said and like I said he would have continued to do this now
there are a lot of people law enforcement included that after he was put away that they started looking at
Old cases to say hey was this just one that he really screwed up and we caught him for right has he been doing this
before and they couldn't find much of a connection there was one that did uh that they thought could possibly be
connected but it would have been from when he was about 15 or 16 years old my Just Thoughts my general thoughts here
of what I can see on the surface is he didn't do a very good job um with this one and I don't think I
don't think he had the ability like you said and that's what got him caught he didn't have the ability to to
cover this up and thank God for that right but his mental health could have been more intact when he was 15 maybe
wasn't having any signs of manic episodes and and could he possibly do something where he could get away with
it for that long I would say possible well my hopes are that when they give him his first review after 12 years and
then again every time he gets a review after that please keep in mind that it had he gotten away with this he would
have continued to do this and therefore that makes him that fall into that quote
safe custody category where he is a danger to society and he needs to be kept from society well and if he is
having manic episodes those don't always go away they can go away so but if he keeps showing signs of that and talking
about himself in third person um you know talking about about situations where he was there but as if
he's not there I think those are going to be deterrents on letting him out foreign
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thank you [Music]

Kim Wall /// Part 2 /// 240

Part 2 of 2

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August 2017 - Denmark; A very strange disappearance leads to an arrest and a gruesome discovery. Kim Wall is a smart, driven young woman with a passion for journalism. She travels the world in search of her next big story. She has been to some very dangerous corners of the earth. No one knew that the greatest danger she would find was living in her extremely safe neighborhood. This case has been called “the most spectacular murder case in Danish history.” Tonight we supply some answers to this strange case and offer up some questions of our own. Beer of the Week - Lorelei Barrel Aged Extra Maple by Omnipollo Brewing Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of

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Brief Summary

The episode details Kim Wall's murder by Peter Madsen, his inconsistent stories, and his eventual conviction for premeditated murder.

Key points

The Disappearance of Kim Wall. 30-year-old Kim Wall vanished after boarding a submarine with Peter Madsen.
Discovery of Kim's Torso. 11 days later, a cyclist finds Kim's naked mutilated torso.
Evidence of Premeditation. Prosecutors argue that Peter planned Kim's murder with disturbing evidence.
Trial Begins for Peter Madsen. The trial for Peter Madsen begins, revealing shocking details.
Peter's Conflicting Stories. Peter Madsen changes his story multiple times regarding Kim's death.
Peter Madsen's Life Sentence. Peter Madsen was sentenced to life in prison for premeditated murder and sexual assault.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.

Nick's warm greeting to the audience.

0:47WatchNov 24, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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