Cameron Todd Willingham /// Part 1 /// 352 | Forensic Files

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foreign December 23rd 1991 and blue collar Corsicana Texas this is just about 45 miles south of Dallas
Diane Barbie was watching the prices right it was about 10 15 A.M when her 11 year old daughter Buffy ran
in from outside and said Mom the neighbor's house is on fire Diane ran out onto West 11th Street
and saw that the house just two houses down from hers was in flames the man who lived there Todd Willingham
was standing shirtless and Barefoot on the porch his upper body covered in soot and his hair burned he was screaming my
babies are burning up he yelled at Diane to call 9-1-1 Diane's phone was shut off
so she had to run down the block to a neighbor's home to make the call at 10 24 am
Todd grabbed a stick smashed it through the front window of the burning house only to have the
Flames shoot out he tried another window with the same result this was witnessed by Buffy Barbie
Todd ran into the yard and kneeled in the grass according to another neighbor he cried
out my babies periodically while falling silent at other times one photo from the scene that day
shows Todd sitting on the bumper of a fire truck his head bowed down over his knees
his body language shows despondency when Diane returned to the scene Todd was standing by a chain-linked
fence Diane could feel the heat from the burning house and soon five Windows not
previously smashed by Todd blew outward then she said Todd ran to his Cadillac parked by the house
pushed it down the driveway away from the flames firemen arrived and Todd shouted at them
that his children were inside in their bedroom in the front of the house where the Flames were shooting from
a fireman radioed for more backup and said step on it the home we are talking about is a
one-story wood structure a small home firemen started to spray water on the front porch and into the windows of the
burning house one firefighter equipped with an air tank and mask was able to enter through
the front door and proceeded down the hallway to the kitchen a refrigerator blocked the back door of
the house and the kitchen was empty of people meanwhile out front Todd was becoming
more and more hysterical a police chaplain was trying to calm Todd who started telling him what had
happened when a firefighter emerged from the house with a two-year-old in his arms
he sank to his knees the little girl's arm flopped lifeless the firefighter gave the little girl
Amber CPR meanwhile Todd rushed toward the still burning house he had to be restrained by police
chaplain father Monahan to prevent him from entering the burning home restrained to the point that father
Monahan and three other Corsicana police officers had to wrestle with Todd and handcuff him
father Monahan got a black eye in the process another firefighter Marvin Smith told
investigators that when he arrived at the scene he too had to restrain Todd from going into the home
he told police that Todd was yelling that his babies were in the house and was acting real hysterical
he restrained Todd from going on to the porch he said based on what I saw on how the fire was
burning it would have been crazy for anyone to try and go into the house Todd was taken to the hospital
he had burns on his shoulder face neck hands and his hair was cinched he was kept overnight
Amber meanwhile was pronounced DOA at the hospital and one-year-old twins Carmen and
Cameron were declared dead at the scene by a Justice of the Peace [Music] the children's Mother Stacy was tracked
down and informed of the tragic deaths of her children and the loss of her home as she shopped for Christmas gifts the
Salvation Army this is true crime garage and this is the case of Cameron Todd Willingham
[Music] after he was released from an overnight at the hospital Todd was brought in for
questioning he spoke with fire investigators Douglas Fogg Manuel Vasquez and police officer
Jimmy Hensley Todd's story was this Stacy his wife left that morning to pay the water and
electric bills now the family was behind on several accounts this including their
mortgage and When Stacy went to the Salvation Army to buy presents for the kids after paying these bills the family
had very little money they didn't even own a stove they just made do with a hot plate and microwave and a deep fryer
around 9 A.M Todd says that he heard the twins crying in their bedroom so he went
in he got them out of the crib gave them each a bottle put them on the floor two-year-old Amber stayed asleep in her
bed in the same room Todd put a baby gate up as there was no door to the kid's room
Todd went back to bed and fell asleep later he says he was awakened by Amber's cries of daddy daddy she's screaming
the house when he wakes up is filled with smoke and he could barely see since he slept in the nude he said he
felt around for his pants and put them on while yelling at Amber telling her to get out of the house
the house had no phone so he could not call for help by this point he's crouching low and
he's feeling his way around so he can make his way down the hallway back to the kid's room
the hallway was filled with black smoke and the air wreaked of burning materials
he could hear popping noises that he thought were wires and electrical sockets blowing when he got to the kids
room he had to stand up remember he placed the baby gate in the doorway he stood up to climb over the
baby gate and at this point his hair caught on fire he put out the Flames with his hands and
then he got down on the ground and he started crawling around on the floor inside this room this room is now
engulfed in flames at this time he's feeling around for the girls but unfortunately all he found was a doll he
couldn't feel Amber in her bed either at this point Todd later related that the fire was all around including the
top of the walls and on the ceiling but not on the floor this is why he was able
to crawl and then walk despite being barefoot the heat became unbearable and burning
debris started to fall on him so he staggered out the front door this is right nearby where he is at this point
this is when Diane Barbie arrived to find him on the porch he told investigators that he tried to
get back inside more than once including when he broke the windows with a stick but the house was engulfed in flames and
the heat was overwhelming investigators asked Todd if he had any idea how the fire started
he says he wasn't sure but that it seems that it started in the kids room since that's where the Flames seem to be
coming from when he was staggering down the hallway he said that he and Stacy had three
space heaters inside the home and that one was in the kids room Todd said Amber got some Whoopins in the
past for playing with the space heater this might make sense too that the fire started with something electrical since
he says he heard snapping and popping noises one fire investigator though testified
that he found this space heater in the girls room in the off position Todd said he could not think of anyone
who would want to hurt his family he said he and Stacy had their problems but neither of them could live without
their children one most of these space heaters have some kind of safety mechanism if they tip over that they
shut off but because of the time period you wonder if they even had a feature like that he said of Amber his
two-year-old daughter Who Cried Out daddy daddy to tell you the honest to God truth he
says I wish she hadn't woke me up the willinghams 50 year old home was severely damaged by this fire
photographs show the chart burned out remains of the walls and the floors in the front of the house yeah I'll post
pictures of the house and any of the reports that we talk about and all the characters involved
and all the people involved in this case I'll post pictures of that on Instagram
at True Crime garage the melted artificial tree and singed teddy bear still soaked from the fire
hoses is visible in pictures of the scene as are the blackened kids beds bed and baby crib
the back part of the house where the master bedroom and kitchen are suffered mostly smoke and water damage the couple
found themselves not only in shock and grief over the loss of their toddlers but bereft of their home at Christmas
time with no possessions clothing or even money for funerals but rather than pity and compassion
from the community for grieving parents in the wake of a tragic accident instead
the tide began to turn the tide was turning against Todd Willingham now we said in the trailer Cameron Todd
Willingham but anybody that knows this case knows that this man goes by simply Todd so we will for the sake of making
it easier on ourselves he's just Todd moving forward as is typical with fires arson
investigators sought to determine the cause of the fire Todd of course gave permission for authorities to go through
the charred home he said quote I know we might not ever know all the answers but I'd like to
know why my babies were taken from me end quote the assistant fire chief Douglas Fogg he
was a Vietnam vet with four purple hearts he had been a firefighter for 20 years
and he was a certified arson inspector fogg's co-investigator for this case was State Deputy Fire Marshal Manuel Vasquez
he's considered one of Texas's leading arson investigators Vasquez had a background in Army
intelligence and had investigated more than 1200 fires in his career fog and Vasquez went over the willingham's 975
square foot house systematically and painstakingly they said they went in with no
preconceived notions of what happened Vasquez said quote the fire tells a story I am just The Interpreter after
examinating the perimeter of the home the inspectors observed that they could open the back door and squeeze into the
kitchen behind a refrigerator that was in front of this door the appliance had been in that spot
supposedly for some time the kitchen had smoke and heat damage but it was not burned the fire started
elsewhere The Men followed the hallway from the kitchen past a laundry room and then the master bedroom to the front
of the house where a living room was on the left and the kids bedroom was on the
right the hallway ended at the front door leading out to the front porch now they
noticed that the laundry room had what they considered to be weird posters on the wall
a poster of what looked like the Grim Reaper and then other dark themed pictures of skulls
Amber was found under the covers in the bed in the master bedroom this room too was determined not to be
where the fire started but it was a different story in the girl's bedroom where the twins bodies
were found on the floor fog and Vasquez thought back to Todd telling them that he had crawled around
in the girl's room and only found a doll but two of his children had been right there
as they continued to move through the home following the evidence they began to formulate some opinions based on
observations here are the things that figured most heavily into their report the bases of
the walls in the hallway and front rooms were charred indicating that the fire burned low down which ordinarily fires
burn upward a regular Char patterns on the floor were shaped like puddles similar to what would form when
flammable liquids poured onto the floor burn in puddle-like formations the fire burned through the flooring
carpet and tile and burnt so hot under the kids beds that the mattress coils were Ash White
they noted that the fire appeared to have burned low to the ground and again normally fires burn up high
glass pieces from the broken windows displayed a spider web pattern referred to as crazed glass
fire textbooks at the time attributed this pattern formation to a fire burning extremely fast and hot as would occur
with a liquid accelerant and then the glass splinters as a result a flashover took place in the front bedroom this
again is the kid's bedroom the investigators perceived what they believed to be a burn trail from the
room shared by the girls into the hallway and to the front door at the front door they found that the threshold
was burned on the front porch brown stains permeated the concrete floor as what might happen with the use of an
accelerant V patterns on the walls are traditionally considered indicative of extreme smoke and heat radiating upward
from a burning object the fire inspectors looked for V patterns to decide what was burning hottest and
quickest to determine the point of origin fog and Vasquez detected three of these
V patterns in the home one in the kids bedroom one in the hallway and one at the front
door these three distinctive origin points showed that the fire according to this
report was set so what it seems like they're observing is that somebody put an accelerant down
on the floor in three different spots correct and that the fire was burning very hot from
the bottom up meaning the floor up and I think because Todd is visibly no burns on his feet
that they start thinking that this is evidence that he possibly started the fire himself
yeah so to put it in simplest form I think first of all his story his account of his movements through the house
before he exited the home don't seem to match up with what the post-fire evidence is showing these in inspectors
right and then on top of that I mean really at the most the most logical thing here is
if you have more than one point of origin for a fire somebody set that fire right you know an
accidental fire is going to start in one location and then burn throughout I'm sure somebody will send me a nice email
that tells me that I'm wrong that there was a situation at one point in the history of our world that a fire was an
accident and it started in three different points I would argue that and I'm sure investigators would argue that
would be an extremely extremely extremely rare occurrence if you can find three points of origin you've
likely found an arson and as you pointed out too if there was an accelerant used it makes
sense that it would be poured on the floor causing the fire to burn from the the
floor up rather than wherever it actually started if it were an accident catching the walls up high the ceiling
and then burning in that manner right correct now I just want to be very clear so you're stating for the record uh
on this episode that you are not a fire expert I'm not a fire expert my only knowledge
of fire inspections comes from this case and a few other cases that we've already
discussed okay art but are you still the crispy colonel I am okay the fire investigators sent samples of
the burned out home to the lab uh the lab determined that one of these samples did contain evidence of mineral spirits
something that is found in charcoal lighter fluid yeah this sample that tested positive for accelerant came from
the threshold of the front door this is interesting too because we talked about that poor Trail or the Fire
trail that the inspectors noted in their report the report pointed to 20 indicators of
arson and concluded that the fire with multiple visible points of origin was intentionally set again what they're
stating is that somebody would pour accelerant in these areas which all led to the front door
which would lead to that threshold where they found the lighter fluid correct directly from the report they
are stating that someone ported an accelerant in the girls room under their beds on the floor into the hallway and
then out the front door and then that person exited ahead of the flames the burning hallway and doorway
prevented anyone else from escaping out the front door or anyone coming in to help and keep in mind in the kitchen
they surmise that the refrigerator had been deliberately moved to block this back door right one of the two exit
points so the back exit point you can't get out because of the refrigerator the front exit point you can't get out of
because of the Flames if this was set up in this manner then it's I mean somebody intended for the
children to die in this fire right no survivors now that someone the investigator said was Cameron Todd
Willingham and this was a triple homicide [Music] [Music] all right cheers mates thanks for
joining us cheers to you Captain cheers to you crispy Colonel the arson triple homicide ruling wasn't the only thing
that was working against Todd Willingham despite initial witness reports that Todd had been hysterical and distraught
crying out for his children yelling to Diane and to have somebody call 9-1-1 right having to be restrained by
firefighters and father Monahan more than once some of the witnesses began tempering their statements and others
came out with statements against Todd Diane Barbie told police that she had never seen Todd try to enter the house
she told PBS Frontline that Todd was a very mean man and she commented to police that Todd seemed more concerned
about moving his car than with his kids being inside the burning home right Todd
told police that he moved his car from the burning house so it wouldn't explode causing further damage
another neighbor said Todd did not appear to be excited or even concerned about the fact that his kids were
trapped and that he made no effort to go into the flames at times Todd was described as calm and
defeated squatting in the yard or sitting on the fire truck bumper or sitting on the curb
and father Monahan two he dialed back his early statements that Todd seemed hysterical did he dial back his black
eye well he began to imply that as he thought about things more after this event that he says Todd seemed to be
completely in control and perhaps he was putting on an act people started to whisper that Todd wasn't injured or at
least wasn't as injured as he should be let's get into who is Cameron Todd Willingham let's take a look at this and
but when we discuss his character one thing I want everybody to try to keep in mind it might get a little
difficult it's important to remember that just because Todd was not likable and in my humble garage opinion a bad
person that does not mean that he is guilty of murder right just because you're a boner
face doesn't mean you're a murderer Cameron Todd Willingham was born in Ardmore Oklahoma on January 6 1968. his
mother had several children with different men she left when he was an infant and he ended up being raised by
his father Gene and his stepmother Eugena Gene was an ex-marine who ran a very strict household Todd didn't always
abide by the rules but he was very close with his stepmother Todd was a good looking kid with black hair and a big
strong frame but he didn't do well in school and he got in trouble and he dropped out of
school this in the 10th grade after dropping out of school he turns to petty crime and generally just being a hoodlum
he was arrested a number of times this for things like driving drunk public intoxication carrying a concealed weapon
stealing bicycles shoplifting attempted auto theft and burglary the old bike jacking Todd however was a
charmer his probation officer Polly Gooden said that he was one of her favorite kids and one juvenile judge who
sentenced him to probation said quote he just did stupid crap like steel bikes right quote
it was just an old [ __ ] turd in quote well Todd met Stacy kaikendel and Corsicana Texas when he was just 20 and
she was a senior in high school a Corsicana was a used to be oil town of 24 000 residents and really this area has
fallen on hard times at the time of our story Stacy was from a troubled home when she
was just four years old her mother was strangled to death by her stepfather Stacy and Todd they hit it off and got
serious fast he moved to Corsicana from Oklahoma to be with her Stacy got pregnant and gave birth to
Amber and then again later giving birth to the twins right Todd Willingham was only 23 when he
found himself saddled with a girlfriend and three kids under the age of three years old and he had one killer mullet
yeah that's right he had a mallet that won awards in different states well he and Stacy Stacy was a a little
bit younger than him uh got married a few months before the fire by all accounts including Todd's own
admissions years later he treated her very badly not only did Todd cheat on Stacy but he drank way too
much and he would leave for periods of time again though I mean this might prove
that you're a bad person or a douche canoe or whatever but that doesn't mean you're a murderer
well he loved to play darts uh he was known to flirt with a lot of women and again often drinking a lot well again to
be fair I told you about the mullet so chances are they were flirting with him well I'll tell you what I actually
camped it I think that you see this a lot when boys in their early 20s just aren't ready to be men yet they they've
signed up willingly for grown men responsibilities but due to immaturity they ultimately end up pooping in their
big boy pants and not being a real man at all real Stinky Pants yeah well Todd and Stacy's relationship was volatile to
say the least when the fire occurred Todd was laid off from work and acting as a stay-at-home dad while Stacy worked
at her Brother's Bar to support the family on top of all of this Todd was physically abusive to Stacy the police
were called to their place more than once they there were even rumors he tried to
induce a miscarriage when she was pregnant with the twins by kicking her in the stomach
one neighbor this guy just gets better and better well that that's a rumor but we know the physical abuse was in fact a
truth right but if he didn't stop the physical abuse while she was pregnant then that seems like the rumor sounds
true even if he wasn't kicking her in the stomach if he's abusing her while she's pregnant that can cause a
miscarriage one neighbor called the police saying that they could hear Todd hitting Stacy and yelling at Stacy
saying get up [ __ ] and I'll hit you again but Stacy said that Todd would never
hurt their kids much less deliberately kill them she said that he lived for his girls and
he spoiled them rotten let's point out that the girls autopsies showed no evidence of any physical abuse
right but this was inconsequential in the minds of many as Corsicana resident Vicki Prater put
it to Frontline about the community turning against Todd she said quote Todd Willingham had not treated his family in
a respected manner so he didn't get the benefit of the doubt that some people would have
prosecutors weren't sure what Todd's motive would be to murder his children there were life insurance policies on
the children but they were purchased by Stacy's grandfather who he was the beneficiary of a grand total of fifteen
thousand dollars right but I think the one of the things that you have to look at when you're looking at motive here is
we have a very poor family living in a poor area in a poor house right before Christmas
depression is you know is higher up during these times suicide rates are higher up during these times they're
paying bills that are late on they're shopping at the Goodwill store to for Christmas they have three mouths to feed
he has no job You could argue that by setting the fire and ending their lives that this is his
way out you know he he's like you said he signed up to put his big boy pants on and all
he's been doing is [ __ ] in them so now it's going well let me take these big boy pants off and this is how I can
do it yeah basically I mean we have a situation here where Todd's not going to benefit financially from
the deaths of these children except of course that he would no longer have any Financial Obligations right for these
three children as well the district attorney Pat Bachelor attributed the alleged murders to quote
the children interfering with his beer drinking and dart throwing end quote after Todd was released from the
hospital he had burns on his hands face and neck one shoulder and singed hair and eyebrows
he and a friend arrived at the burned out home in a truck blasting loud music this two picked through the wreckage for
salvageable items Todd was observed to lament the loss of his beloved dartboard and some neighbors
said they could hear laughter and after a few days after the fire people in the community held a dark competition
fundraiser this to gather funds for the girls funerals Todd and Stacy attended this and as
Vicki Prater the fundraiser organizer put it Todd had too much fun for people's liking he asked the bar owner
to put aside a new set of darts for him Prater didn't want to have him spend the
community's donations on these darts so she took money out of her pocket giving it to him for the dart set right now
personally I I understand why they're trying to raise the money and all that stuff but
personally if it was me I I couldn't even attend something like that it would be very difficult but but what
we have is a situation here where there might be rumors and speculation amongst the community there's been no charges
brought forth right or forward yet now the rumors as stated started to swirl that Todd was heard saying that money
will start to roll in because people pitied him this of course did not sit well with any
of the locals police investigators on the case began to make note of circus circumstantial evidence against Todd
in police interviews Todd came across more as a patting himself on the back type for what he tried to do to save his
children the lead investigator Jimmy Hensley said to Frontline quote Todd didn't show any
remorse through the interview until I actually showed him the pictures of his children at that time he started crying
you know I don't think he was sad so much that he killed the kids as much as that it's coming to light that you know
he's a suspect in it this is awful tragedy but we don't know how somebody is going to react first of all we have
rumors and reason to believe that this guy's character Todd's character it was like you said before is of that
of a [ __ ] stain so he's just going back to that original character again that does not mean that he
is um responsible but once you kind of you know place his character with the evidence that this
fire was started by somebody this is what leads to his arrest right fire started by somebody who Todd
admittedly says was in the home before the fire started right so he is arrested and this was by a SWAT team on January 8
1992. he was held on one million dollars Bond while a grand jury was convened to
consider an indictment against him an indictment for capital murder came down on February 13
1992. Todd couldn't afford a defense attorney so a team was appointed to him this consisted of David Martin a former
state trooper and Robert Dunn a local defense attorney who handled all types of cases
Todd was adamant that he had not set the fire and he did not kill his children he
was also adamant about his innocence that when the prosecutor offered Todd a chance to plead guilty to avoid the
death penalty Todd refused to accept this deal his father and stepmother even visited
him and begged him to take this deal but Todd would not budge saying quote I ain't going to plead to something I
didn't do especially killing my own kids end quote well at this point his own lawyers see the evidence and say look
there is a lot of evidence against you or at least pointing in your direction and I believe they advised him to to
take the deal as well 100 and very likely they probably shared the evidence with his parents asking them hey we
can't talk sense into this guy right you go talk to him at the very least as his
representative because that's one thing we've talked about in other cases like when the guy that had to that had the
horrible responsibility of Defending John Wayne Gacy in court yeah he said you know 30 years later he's he says
basically what you have to do what your responsibility is when you go into a situation like this and you believe your
client to be guilty and John Wayne Gacy of such horrible crimes Todd Willingham of the deaths of his
three children horrible crimes at the very least to provide your client with some form of service your job is to
at least make it so that the state does not execute your client well in this case reminds me a lot of like the Chris
Watts case the family went missing they couldn't find the family so all of a sudden you
have the husband acting suspicious right but nobody really wants to to blame the
husband and in this case there's this awful fire these kids die in the fire or you know right before
Christmas the the husband's acting a little strange and you don't want to blame him now
we're to the point where he's arrested and everybody's looking at the evidence and looking at his character and going
hey take this deal you know and at least you you won't be executed yeah the the trial State versus Willingham commenced
on August 18 1992 and it lasted just three days surprisingly the prosecuting attorney was assistant
D.A John Jackson The Honorable Buck Douglas presided in Jackson's opening statement he told
the jury that Todd Willingham poured a combustible liquid on the floor of the kids room and then poured more of that
same liquid in the hallway and out the front door he then stood by and did nothing as the heat flames and smoke
killed his three children in his own opening statement Todd's attorney David Martin rebutted that
statement saying quote the state's theory in the case is the most unexpected unproppable unreasonable
scenario that we can imagine and quote he argued that the state's case was entirely circumstantial
now in a surprise move the state called its first Witness was convicted felon his name Johnny Webb
age 22. it just sounds like a convicted felon old Johnny Webb well he was a career criminal and a crack addict who
was in the Navarro County Jail at the same time as Todd this is in January and February of 92.
Webb was in on robbery and forgery charges he suffered from Psychiatric disorders and was on various medications
when asked on direct examination whether he had quote any trouble with mental impairment or anything like that he
responded not always Webb testified that he met Todd while in jail and one day while the two were
standing on either side of a glass partition that had a slot for you know like the meal tray so that can come
through they would stand there and where the slot is they could actually talk to
each other communicate through that spot because of the slot Todd broke down he says Todd broke down
on this one day crying and during this time that he's crying he confesses to Johnny that he in fact did kill his kids
the story Todd told Johnny Webb according to Webb's testimony was this Todd came home and found one of the
girls severely injured perhaps even dead because of something that Stacy did to the child
Todd decided that the way to get out of this situation would be to set a house fire
he took some lighter fluid and squirted it all around on the walls and the floors
in a pentagram pattern and then lit it but first he lit some newspaper and burned one of the kids on their arms and
forehead this to make it look like they had been playing with fire and that that
set the fire he says then he ran out of the house and refused to re-enter the home
now according to Webb this whole spontaneous confession thing went down in an area that was in full view of
guards and other prisoners and right underneath microphones connected to the intercom system that was monitored by
prison staff and Webb had only met Todd less than a month before Todd denied involvement in
the fire to anyone and everyone including Webb yet all of a sudden he decided to unburden himself to this
stranger yeah I never trust these jailhouse snitches well it in this situation anyway it defies belief to me
I agree but often in these cases when somebody from prison snitches on somebody else and they use them in a
trial the prosecution was able to like gift them something so basically pay them for their confession
yeah that I mean it's a it's a favor for a favor essentially the problem on top of that in this specific incident is
that this confession should have been heard by somebody else or recorded on top of him just telling this other
uh jail mate right before Webb left the Stan Jackson the prosecutor asked him Johnny have I ever
promised you anything in return for your testimony in this case to which Johnny answers no sir you have knocked now
let's make sure that we remember Johnny Webb's testimony the next State's witness was Diane
Barbie the neighbor who called 9-1-1 right she testified that she ran down the street saw the burning house and
Todd on the porch and that he was screaming then she stated that he started screaming whenever we came
outside she said the house was not in Flames but that smoke was coming from down low
she admitted that when she ran to find a neighbor to call 9-1-1 she was gone maybe six minutes
she said Todd was hysterical hollering and all but he managed to tell her that Amber had woke him up and then jumped
off the bed and he couldn't find her in the black smoke she said that while Todd ran back and
forth between the house and the yard a few times she couldn't get him to go back in to save the girls
another neighbor this is Mr long arrived and just then the house blew up the heat was so intense Diane could feel
it from where she stood in the Daniel's yard this is the yard between hers and the willinghams right she could hear
electricity popping she said she said she could not tell whether Todd was injured but he had black soot all over
his arms and back and his hair and eyelashes were burned Todd pushed his car back from the house
about eight feet down the driveway and then sat down across the street on the curb the fire trucks arrived at 10 26.
the next morning Diane testified a small group gathered at the burned house including Todd a Boombox was blasting
music from someone's truck but they turned it off when they saw her that night Todd and Stacy came by and Stacy
was crying and they were discussing that a neighbor was taking up a collection and Todd and Stacy had bought some
clothes for Amber this presumably to bury her in Todd said to Stacy in front of Diane
that he tried to go back into the burning house Diane's daughters both testified that
they did not see Todd try to go into the burning home that he did not appear injured and that he appeared more
concerned about his car John Bailey the neighbor across the street testified that the day after the
fire he saw Todd and Stacy going through the debris he said quote it was not the
attitude of people that just lost their children should have had but that's a case in so many cases as people go well
they're just acting different than I would and so therefore that means they're guilty in those
people's eyes it's it's kind of strange that people do that constantly he goes on to say that it was more of a laughing
cut up type of attitude Jerry Long another neighbor stated that during the fire Todd didn't seem quote
real excited he would holler about his kids and then stop and look himself over as if to see
whether he was injured long denied that Todd had cried at all but on cross-examination by David Martin he
admitted that in an earlier statement to police he had attested that Todd had been crying
he also said that Sparks and popping sounds were coming from the utility pole where the wires met the house and that
Todd commented to him that they had some trouble with the electricity one of the
first responding firefighters testified that when he arrived Todd approached him
and told him that his babies were in the house he could see that the front rooms of the
house were Ablaze including the floors and the porch he entered the home through the front
door and noted that the back door was blocked by a refrigerator the Twins were on the floor in the front
bedroom burned Beyond any possibility of survival on the stand this firefighter referred
to the Willingham home as the crime scene and Martin moved for a mistrial but the judge denied his motion
he also denied Martin's motion to exclude the inflammatory photos of the two charred infants corpses introduced
into evidence by the prosecution the firefighter whose last name is Franks continued to testify he said that at the
scene on the day of the fire Todd did not exhibit any symptoms of smoke inhalation Franks also said that when he
was at the scene after the fire to collect evidence Todd was also there and was looking through the house for his
Dart set and was quite upset about not being able to find it right Ethel Baptist a nurse who was on duty at
the hospital testified that Todd did a lot of crying and saying that he should have died with his girls it should have
been him instead of them she saw only small burns on Todd on his hands and back and his hair and eyebrows
and lashes were singed on cross Martin asked her if she knew that Todd had soot in his nasal cavities and throat she
said she was not aware of this but when pressed admitted that one would get soot
in these areas after breathing in Smoke after carefully setting up the narrative
that Todd Willingham was self-centered calculated violent psychopath who wanted his kids
out of the way so he could pursue various recreational activities prosecutor John Jackson called Douglas
Fogg the fire investigator to the stand Fogg testified that investigators could not find any accidental causes of the
fire including gas leaks and no electrical shorts he said the space heater was off nope
they checked this days after the fire so technically anyone could have turned it
to the off position correct the glass windows were examples of crazed glass which can be caused by fire burning
and accelerant the fire seemed to burn low to the floor rather than high up there was a puddling
effect on the floor in the hallway and in the kids room indicating a liquid was poured
the floor was burning underneath the metal threshold plate at the front door this indicating the presence of an
accelerant the wood under the aluminum threshold and a melted charcoal lighter fluid container tested positive for
quote mineral spirits of kerosene this accelerant the the kind that would be found in charcoal lighter fluid
wood fires don't burn hotter than 800 Degrees and the degree of damage to the aluminum threshold piece shows that this
fire burned hotter requiring an accelerant and the burn V patterns and puddling showed that the fire was started in
three different locations accidental fires don't start in three different locations
fogg's testimony was backed up by Manuel Vasquez the state arson investigator he bragged on the stand that he
investigated 1200 to 1500 fires and quote most all of them had turned out to be arson and that he never knew of a
time when he was wrong he said he knew the fire was arson from his investigation of the scene but also
because Todd had told him a story of pure fabrication if Todd had really looked for his
children in the burning home his feet would have been burned and he did not appear to have any signs of smoke
inhalation when Vasquez spoke with him days after the fire over objections from the defense
attorneys Vasquez was permitted to answer a question from the prosecutor based on your investigation and our
examination of the scene in your conclusions can you tell what the arsonist intended to do by setting this
fire his response yes his intent was to kill the little girls the state presented the
two Pathologists who performed the autopsies they testified that the girls died of carbon monoxide poisoning from
smoke inhalation they also said that because of the charred nature of the kids bodies it
would be difficult to determine whether there were any surface injuries to the kids that predated the fire
but that they did not observe any internal injuries or broken bones an ER doctor testified that Todd had
first degree burns on his face and neck a small second-degree burn on his right shoulder and a blister burn on his
middle finger on his left hand he also had soot present in his nose and in the back of his throat with a slight
cough but his carbon monoxide level was only three percent this consistent with being a smoker which Todd was and with
all this damning evidence against Todd this is where the prosecution will rest [Music]
want to remind everybody to check out our other show it's a great show it's sometimes it's funny sometimes it's
mystery sometimes it's more True Crime you never know what you're going to get this week for the people that listen to
off the record on Stitcher premium they got to hear me and the captain talk about what we call the serial killers of
Comedy check out Stitcher premium off the Record yeah the Lopper you get to hear about the Lopper thanks
for joining us in the garage and be kind to everybody that's right you better be
kind also be good and don't litter thank you [Music]

Cameron Todd Willingham /// Part 1 /// 352

Part 1 of 2

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Just days before Christmas a horrible house fire claimed the lives of three very innocent victims. Later fire inspectors determined that the fire was set. Someone was responsible for the fire and for the murder of three. Join us in the garage as we discuss one of the most controversial cases from Texas. Beer of the Week - Texas Red from Rahr & Sons Brewing Co. Garage Grade - 3 and a half bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

Cameron Todd Willingham was accused of murdering his children in a house fire, with evidence suggesting arson and conflicting witness testimonies complicating the case.

Key points

Tragic Fire in Corsicana, Texas. On December 23, 1991, a devastating fire claimed the lives of three children in Corsicana, Texas, leading to a complex investigation.
Investigation Unfolds. Fire investigators Douglas Fogg and Manuel Vasquez begin to piece together the evidence surrounding the fire.
Cameron Todd Willingham's Background. Born in Ardmore, Oklahoma, Todd faced a troubled upbringing and a tumultuous life.
The Fire Incident. On the night of the fire, Todd was acting strangely, raising suspicions in the community.
Trial and Testimonies. The trial against Todd Willingham lasted just three days, with shocking testimonies from neighbors.
The Crime Scene Testimony. A firefighter describes the Willingham home as a crime scene, raising suspicions about Todd.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The fire tells a story I am just The Interpreter.

Investigator Manuel Vasquez explaining his role in interpreting the evidence.

15:28WatchNov 19, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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