Kevin Cooper /// Part 1 /// 219 | Forensic Files

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Joshua Ryan made the following statement during a U.S District Court Hearing in San Diego in 2005.
the first time I met Kevin Cooper I was eight years old and he slipped my throat
he hit me with a hatchet and put a hole in my skull he stabbed me twice which broke my ribs
and collapsed one lung I lived only because I stuck four fingers in my neck to slow the bleeding
but I was too weak to move I laid there for 11 hours looking at my mother who was right beside me
I know now he came through the sliding glass door and attacked my dad first he was lying on the bed and was struck
in the dark without warning with the hatchet and a knife he was hit many times because there was
a lot of blood on the wall and on his side of the bed my mother screamed and Cooper came
around the bed and started hitting her somehow my dad was able to struggle between the bed and the closet but
Cooper bludgeoned my father to death with the knife and Hatchet stabbing him 26 times and axing him 11.
one of the blows severed his finger and it landed in the closet my mother tried to get away but he
caught her at the bottom of the bed and he stabbed her 25 times and acts her seven
all of us kids were drawn to the room by my mom's screams Jessica was killed in the doorway with
five ax blows and 46 stabs I won't say how many times my best friend Chris was stabbed and axed not
because it's not important but because I don't want to hurt his family in any way and they are here
after Cooper killed everyone and thought he had killed me he went over to my sister
and lifted her shirt and Drew things on her stomach with the knife then he walked down the hallway opened
the refrigerator and had a beer I guess killing so many people can make a man thirsty
[Music] Franklin Douglas Ryan grew up on the outskirts of Des Moines Iowa he grew up
to be tall strong and a well-liked man he became a marine and then went on to be an MP a military police officer by
the way he went by the name Doug so we will just call him Doug Peggy and Ryan was born Peggy Ann Howell she got her
first of many horses that she would own in her lifetime when she was just 12 years old horses were her passion and
she would be gifted several horses from her twice divorced mother this is Dr Mary Howell
Peggy was always strong and athletic and she grew up to be five foot eight inches
tall Peggy loved to train horses and enter them in competitions uh this is near her mother's Chiropractic practice
in Pennsylvania not far from Lancaster as a teen she aspired to become a veterinarian but her mother persuaded
her to follow in her footsteps so just like her mother Peggy attended the Palmer School of Chiropractics and
Davenport Iowa she graduated in 1963 and then she went to work for her mother at
the chiropractic clinic that she owned located in Santa Ana three and a half years later Peggy
ventured out on her own opening up her own clinic in Santa Ana and in 1970 Peggy Ann met Doug Ryan at an alumni
reunion at Palmer and not too much later the two were married at a church in Corona del Mar yeah they'd be married
December 20th 1970. eventually the two newlyweds decided to open up their own practice together this is in Olympia
Washington after relocating Peggy bought two horses while it turns out that Olympia was not a great spot for the
couple As far as their Chiropractic business or their equestrian hobby would be concerned it was a great stop along
life's big adventure for their family though because their daughter Jessica Kate Ryan was born in Olympia on
November 9 1972. so their practice is failing at this point the Ryans accepted Peggy's mother's offer to join join her
successful and very lucrative Chiropractic Clinic back in Santa Ana this is in the mid 1973.
so the Ryan's bought a home in Santa Ana this is with a big backyard big enough to hold their two horses and they
continued to purchase more horses now Captain I'm not certain here but I think at some point they got up to like five
or six horses in their backyard that's a lot of horse [ __ ] well the neighbors are
going to start complaining about all these horses about them keeping them in their backyard probably because of the
smell well this would be this would prompt the eventual move to Chino Hills California so they find a Hilltop Ranch
this is directly above Peggy's mother's house in Chino Hills it came on the market Doug and Peggy Ryan sold their
home in Santa Ana and they bought this new house now Peggy noted to friends that the property came with a gorgeous
barn and a huge riding ring the three bedroom two bath house featured a sunken living room and a family room and a
jacuzzi in the patio off of the master bedroom jacuzzi so this secluded area of Chino Hills
that Doug and Peggy Ryan uh moved into with their two-year-old daughter Jessica and their infant son Joshua this
fulfilled a long-held dream for Peggy Ryan joining a small close-knit community this is all the community is
of Arabian horse breeders who operated adjoining or close by ranches so this is horse people moving to be near other
horse people I think they're called centaurs their neighbors referred to their ranches along Old English Road as
the Arabian Horse Center of Southern California from their Hilltop house the Lions looked out over a maze of white
fences and their neighbors ranches and the Ryan Stables were more than a dozen white Arabian show horses the house was
located at 2943 English Place Chino Hills California and unfortunately it was going to be the location of a set of
Horrid murders Saturday June 4th 1983 by now the Ryan's daughter Jessica was 10 years old and
their son Josh was eight years old there were not many boys in this neighborhood
the same age as Josh but there was one boy who had become very good friends with Josh and this is 11 year old Chris
Hughes Chris and Josh had gone trick-or-treating together they were very close Christopher Hughes was almost
five foot tall and he had just completed the fifth grade Christopher was a good student he had
lots of friends he was on the swim team and he had a room full of trophies to prove it he liked Star Wars and on this
Saturday after an invite from his friend Josh He begged his mother that he'd be allowed to stay the night at the Ryan's
family home she agreed but told Christopher to remember that he needed to be home in
time in the morning for church Christopher's mother watched the two boys right away on their bicycles toward
Josh's home now that evening the lions with their guest Christopher they attended a potluck dinner with about a
hundred other equestrian enthusiasts that's hard to say equestrian enthusiasts and their family and their
families at the Chino Hill home of George and Valerie blade this was a pretty big party yeah and again all
horse people it was a BYOB affair they arrived to the gathering with a bottle of pink Chablis
that night at the party the blade son Jace Jason pleaded with his parents to allow him to stay the night as well at
the Ryan's home but he was not allowed to because I guess like their grandmother was in town and visiting
right so around 9 30 p.m the Ryan's and Chris returned to the Ryan split level home after a while the children went to
sleep the boys were sleeping in sleeping bags on the floor in Josh's room and Jessica was in her room a Doug Ryan
watched some television before joining his wife in bed probably about 11 p.m so we have just a real quick recap we have
the father the mother the daughter which is older and then we have the son and then his
friend yeah so the daughter Jessica would be 10 years old right Josh is eight years old and his friend
Christopher is 11. the next morning Christopher's mother Mary Ann Hughes she became concerned because remember
he's supposed to come home so they can go to church in the morning he doesn't come home
so she called the Ryan residence a few times but only got busy signals so shortly after 9 A.M Mrs Hughes went
to the Ryan home she noticed that the barn was closed and it didn't look to her like the horses
had been fed or let out or whatever it is you're supposed to do with horses I I'm not going to pretend to know what
well let's just assume that they need to be fed in the morning I have dogs I feed
them and let them out in the morning so I'm guessing horses are the same uh this
is her account of the situation that the barn looked to have been closed no activity that morning that she could see
she only saw the Ryan's truck at the house they had a station wagon as well but she did not see the station wagon
she knocked on the door several times I there was no answer at about 11 30 a.m Mr Hughes went to the Ryan home to
investigate and Mr Hughes went to the kitchen door looked inside tried the door but it was locked he continued
around the outside of the house until he reached the sliding glass door leading to the Ryan's master bedroom he looked
inside the glass door and he saw the body of his son he also saw the bodies of Doug and Peggy Ryan
and Josh Ryan lying on the floor between his mother and Christopher now apparently
and when this is happening so Mr Hughes is trying to get into this sliding glass door he he can't get into
the door he can see Josh in there and Josh kind of moves he's the only body that he sees move inside and he's trying
to tell Josh I need you to get up and unlock this door yeah but we would later learn Josh has sustained too many
injuries he he can't get up eventually Mr Hughes goes around to another door this is back to the door
that's at the kitchen and he he kicks in the door and then he goes inside and he
finds he finds the bodies of of all five of these people now four of them are dead
including his son and he finds Josh who is very bloodied and very weak so he starts asking or trying to ask Josh hey
who did this but Josh's throat has been slit right so he can't tell him yeah he tries to talk but he he's like only
moving his lips there's nothing coming out Mr Hughes tried to use the phone the telephone in the house to call for help
but the phone did not work so he had to drive to a neighbor's house seeking help
the police arrived and Doug Peggy Chris and Jessica were pronounced dead Josh was found lying on his side his
eyes were open but he was unable to speak or move he was unresponsive Josh was flown by helicopter to Loma
Linda University hospital and thankfully Josh would survive now we're going to go
through the medical examiner's findings this is going to be this will be difficult to hear so some
of you may want to skip forward a few minutes because we're going to turn down the volume of the mics uh well this is
going to be gruesome stuff so Doug Ryan suffered at least 37 separate wounds some inflicted by an ax or Hatchet and
some were stab wounds this is the father Yes five chop wounds to Mr Ryan skull were in a quote tight pattern indicating
his skull was stationary when the blows were delivered the blows appeared to have been administered in Rapid
succession within a second or two as Mr Ryan was kneeling by the side of the bed
one blow administered to Mr Ryan's skull was consistent with being struck by the
blunt side of a hatchet or ax causing a depressed skull fracture where the bone was pushed into his head Mr Orion's
right middle finger was amputated by a chopping blow his his severed finger was found on the floor inside the Ryan's
bedroom closet another chop wound cut clear through the bone of his right forearm one Stab Wound penetrated his
sternum entering his heart one Stab Wound punctured his lung there were slicing injuries to the right side of Mr
Ryan's cheek and before he died Mr Ryan was stabbed on the left side of his neck
severing his carotid artery and cutting his trachea so before we move on real quick what that means is we're seeing
obvious signs of defensive wounds here right so he's attacked presumably they're surprised in the middle of the
night but he is able to at least get up and attempt to defend himself and I say that I believe that these are defensive
wounds because we're seeing a lot several wounds to his hands and his forearms almost as if he's putting them
up in defense of himself now the one thing that I think is important here too is the the wounds to
his skull which they titled as a tight pattern would almost indicate that they are made in Rapid succession by the same
person by the same hand same weapon same individual inflicting these wounds Peggy Ryan suffered 32 separate
identified wounds these wounds were primarily on her head chest and neck areas a series of three chopping wounds
to the right side of Mrs Ryan's head were consistent with having been administered while she was standing
Mrs Ryan had a defensive wound on her right hand Jessica Ryan the daughter suffered 46
separate identified wounds consisting of a combination of chopping and stabbing or incision wounds
Jessica suffered a stab wound to her neck the wound resulted in massive bleeding unconsciousness from this wound
due to Rapid blood loss would have occurred in as little as 30 to 60 seconds and would have been fatal in a
couple of minutes three stab wounds to Jessica's chest were near each other suggesting the
wounds were delivered in Rapid succession the wounds were consistent with having been delivered while Jessica
was in the position in which she was found Jessica suffered a grouping of carving
injuries on her chest most apparently occurred after Jessica had stopped bleeding so after she had already passed
the postmortem yes the injuries were consistent with a an ice pick a nail or an awl having been used to inflict these
injuries these injuries were primarily inflicted while Jessica was in the position in which she was found the
position in which she died okay so a little more information here it looks like she suffered early on in
the attack she suffered a wound that was great enough powerful enough for her to
be knocked unconscious because of the rapid blood loss which she would die from that so a lot
of these wounds that she suffered so we can assume where she suffered these wounds after she was already
passing away as she was dying and she was unconscious so she's we're not going to see as many
defensive wounds on her because she didn't have the opportunity the chance to defend herself right now one thing
that I think is interesting here though Captain is we are seeing the suggestion of a possible third weapon being used
here so some of these injuries and wounds the medical examiner suggesting were produced by a knife and then we
have other wounds that he's suggesting were produced by a hatchet or an ax and then we have wounds to the girl that
suggests that they were they were created by an ice pick or a nail something to that effect but different
from the knife and the hatchet right now Christopher Hughes suffered 25 separate
wounds a chopping wound to his right wrist went through the bone of his forearm almost severing his hand from
his wrist Chris also suffered a chopping injury to his right hand the injuries were
consistent with defensive wounds several of Christopher's wounds were inflicted after the boy had passed
Joshua Ryan the little boy that somehow survived his injuries included including
a hatchet wound to the top of his head a stab wound to his throat and a hatchet wound near his left ear now the coroner
this is Dr root who performed the autopsies believe that the injuries could have been inflicted quickly within
one minute for each of the victims he suspected each victim died within minutes of being attacked our survivor
will be able to report his limited memory of the murders this is a breakdown of Josh's eyewitness report
immediately after his rescue there was a clinical social worker at the hospital that interviewed the boy that afternoon
in the emergency room Josh was unable to speak he pointed at words and numbers on
this chart that were provided to him by the social worker right he's going to use this method to try to tell the
social worker what had happened what he had witnessed during the attack most importantly what he points out is
that three white men were in the house at the time of the attacks well like you said the coroner thinks that these
attacks happen within a minute of each other so that that'd be one individual moving pretty rapidly or suggesting that
there's more than one attacker right so the the social worker says you know I asked Josh how many people were there
and Josh pointed to the number three he said I asked him if there if they were male he pointed to yes yeah now I
don't want to say that you're wrong but I do believe that when they said um how many people were there that he actually
pointed to three and four I mean that's just what I heard he also asked the boy if the men were black and Josh pointed
to the word no so this man added that Josh said that he had seen the men before but did not know
them now let's add this fact in here so we have San Bernardino County Sheriff's deputy this is Irvin Dale Sharp he would
later testify that he interviewed the boy twice on June 5th the same day sharp said that the first interview took place
in the emergency room and lasted about 15 minutes in that interview Josh Josh said that three white men were in the
house when the killings occurred but in a subsequent interview this is an hour later the boy identified
the three men as possibly Hispanic each between 18 and 20 years old possibly driving a low rider Chevrolet Impala and
had been at his house on June 4th sharp later testified that the youth told him the attack on his family took place
between 4 and 5 a.m there is thought that this time frame would not have been consistent with the coroner's finding
well he's eight years old right right and then on top of that he's been he has a head wound
and a severe you know slashing of his throat but I just wonder how much the head wound is causing these inaccuracies
Well here here's the other thing too you know so the coroner's finding the coroner suspects that the attacks likely
took place a couple hours earlier than what Josh is saying he believes the attacks took place three weeks after the
slangs the boy was released from the University Medical Center and left for the East Coast where he was going to be
staying with his uncle now later a custody of Josh would be granted to his grandmother Dr Mary Howell
[Music] foreign we're back cheers well Captain I think we should probably introduce Kevin
Cooper to everybody and you know we have the situation here where we've titled this episode Kevin Cooper and other than
Joshua's statement to the court we've not heard his name yet and this case puts us in a difficult
situation doesn't it Captain because we usually try to title these episodes uh the victim's name because the victims
are often forgotten about in these true crime stories here we have Kevin Cooper who as you
heard Josh's statement he says killed my family but the reason why we title what
Kevin Cooper is there is some question about this man's guilt and what we really wanted to present to
everybody is the facts of the case so everybody can form their own opinion is Kevin Cooper guilty of having killed
this family and after reviewing all of the evidence and after looking at this story you presented this case to me and
I had not heard of this case which I found a little weird because once they started diving into it it seems to be a
fairly popular case uh especially in the California area but after you told me about this case and we're looking into
it you know what kept running through my mind is that this is you know the the famous show making a murderer this this
should have been about Kevin Cooper um and I know I'm not going to uh win a lot of people over with this statement
but looking at this case um I think one could present evidence to look Stephen Avery looks a lot more
guilty to me than Kevin Cooper but okay let's go through let's introduce Kevin Cooper and then we will try to get to
some of the evidence here Captain so Kevin Cooper was adopted as a baby he suffered an abusive and troubled
childhood in Pennsylvania he would run away from home at a very young age later he said that this was to escape beatings
the trouble he got into as a child involved shoplifting and marijuana charges he never graduated from high
school Uh Kevin Cooper really got into trouble this was in Pennsylvania when he stole a car from a teenage girl now
apparently apparently the girl interrupted him while he was committing this um he was committing some form of
residential burglary okay she interrupts him committing this crime he then steals
the car but he he also took the girl with him and Kevin Cooper would later admit forcing the 17 year old girl into
the vehicle now she says that he also hit her he threatened her he threatened to kill her and he that he had raped her
he flatly denies hitting or raping her do we have any evidence of this um I don't know all I have is his
statement where he admits to stealing the car and forcing her into the vehicle I think this is a he said she said
situation I don't think there was a lot of evidence to point either direction and then you have a guy that is willing
to admit to some of the charges uh you know right unfortunately I think probably should have been charged with
kidnapping a minor but regardless of the charges he is going to do time for this
Cooper would also be arrested charged and convicted several times uh these are for theft related offenses he escaped
from custody in Pennsylvania numerous times then he goes to California in California Cooper is arrested charged
and sentenced to state prison for two counts of residential burglary now how old is he at this time
um well this would have been in 1982. and this is all this is in Los Angeles County
Cooper lied about his identity uh his background and his criminal history by using the false name of David Troutman
now on June 1st of 1983 Cooper was transferred to a minimum security portion of the prison in which he was
being housed two days before the murders he escaped on foot from the California Institute for men well so I just want to
get this clear he's actually serving a sentence a four-year sentence but under the name David Troutman
correct yeah that's interesting he lied about his identity and this it would make him appear so he got a
pretty light sentence and that being because of two things he lies about his identity because he's escaped from
prison in Pennsylvania one and he has a lengthy criminal history of of these you
know some most of these are pretty minor charges but he has a lengthy criminal history where he probably would have
faced considerable more amount of time there right and he's he's then shipped off to
this minimum security portion of the prison this is when he escapes from prison and it's just a couple days
before this family is found murdered so when he escapes from prison I mean this is just he just kind of walks through a
field like runs away from a group of people or something do we have much information on this well okay and this
is why I say that this is the case that should have been featured on making a murder not because I'm you know that's
not a spoiler alert where I think that Kevin Cooper is innocent what I mean by that is the problem with
this case and when you try to research this case is it gets presented in some different
lights and it depends on who you're getting your information from because there are some people out there that are
pretty hardcore that Kevin Cooper is innocent there's some other people on the opposite side of the fence that he's
very guilty and then there's some people these are the ones that I don't like to
get any information from because I don't feel that I can trust it there are some
people that I believe that are just so much against the death penalty and because Kevin Cooper would
eventually be on death row for these murders I think that they skew the information a little bit so some people
would have you believe that his escape from this prison is as simple as he finds a hole in the fence he walks up to
it he goes through the hole and walks away peace out yeah uh the hole in the fence
portion seems to be pretty true what doesn't seem to be true is that he just kind of
you know moseyed on down the road and and walked to Chino Hills right the the reality is that he did climb through
this hole in the fence but he goes and he hides out in some like lumber yard and he waits for the sun to go down
because he's going to need to flee after dark he doesn't want to be seen in mind
you he's wearing all of his prison Garb he looks like somebody that just walked out of the prison right
so he's gonna wait till till Sundown and during the cover of Darkness he's going
to go to this China Chino Hills sorry and he finds this vacant house this house is owned by a couple of people uh
Larry lease and these brothers Roger and Kermit Lang own this house now some of the information out there will refer to
this home as an abandoned house this could not be further from the truth this was a home that was being used these men
would use this home this home was completely outfitted and they actually rented it out from time to time so this
was not an abandoned house he happened to find a home that was empty you know had no no people staying in it right and
he decides to stay there and make it his Hideout so we'll refer to it as The Hideout house
because that's kind of what it is he's on the run from the law and he's hiding out at this house while he's there you
know he's doing typical things that you would do throughout your day he's you know using the restroom uh taking a
shower he did say that he slept that night the first night in one of the beds however all of the bedrooms have Windows
he was concerned that somebody would see him through one of the windows so he started sleeping inside the closet of
the bedroom while he was there he was you know he found beer and other things to drink
while he was there he he was smoking cigarettes now the key thing about this house though this house is down the hill
and it's actually nearest to the Ryan house right this is just a 126 yards away now that should give you some idea
of what kind of neighborhood we're dealing with this is the nearest home and it's more than a football field away
yeah but not much more than a football field so Cooper slept in the closet of the bedroom of a bedroom that was
nearest the garage there was a window by a fireplace inside this home and that that window from that window you could
get a very good view of the Ryan home the house had two telephones and Cooper called Yolanda Jackson and
Diane Williams from the house asking them for help these are old friends of his they both decline now the telephone
records would later show that the two calls that two calls were made from the house to the uh Los Angeles area
telephone number of Yolanda Jackson the first call lasted 110 minutes must have been a good conversation this beginning
on June 3rd at 12 17 a.m and the second call lasted four minutes beginning at 2 26 a.m the same morning
two calls were also made from the house to Diane Williams who was in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania the first call lasted three
minutes beginning on June 3rd at 11 46 a.m and the second lasted 34 minutes beginning on June 4th at 7 53 p.m Diane
Williams told Cooper that she did not have any money that she could give him now according to Cooper he decided to
leave the house after this phone call the final call was only an hour or so before the Ryan's and Chris Hughes left
the blade house from that potluck dinner find the party to return to their home okay so there are there's some documents
out there there's websites out there dedicated to this case and a lot of times they spend a lot of time
presenting evidence that that Cooper was staying at the home before the murders I think that's a big waste of
everybody's time he admits to staying at the home before the murder there's no question about that right so we don't
need to pour through that evidence we have enough evidence in these actual murders that we're going to have to pour
through so what you're saying is according to Cooper he was at the house so there is no debating that yeah we we
won't debate that according to his own words he was at this home nearest the murder house
about but that doesn't mean that you were the murderer well correct but according to his own words he was there
and left about eight sometime between eight and eight thirty that night the Lions would have returned to their home
around 9 30 to 10 o'clock that night then going to bed and being attacked and murdered sometime during that night so
question where is Cooper going Cooper says that he had planned all along to go to Mexico
and this might be the truth because we know that Cooper checked into a hotel in Tijuana this is around 4 P.M on Sunday
June 5th 1983 using the false name of Angel Jackson so from Tijuana Cooper made his way to
Ensenada Mexico where on June 9th he met Owen and Angelica handy he introduced himself as Angel Jackson and he asked
them for a job he was going to go work for them on their boat the handys then set sail for San Francisco and Cooper
posing as Angel Jackson went with them during this time handy the Handy's saw Cooper in possession of numerous items
later identified as having been taken from the vacant house nearest the Ryan's home
they stopped at various places along their way to San Francisco Cooper stayed on the boat so when when the handys
would park the boat they would they would get dock the boat I guess you should say yeah they would get off the
boat they would go on Shore they'd probably presumably going out to eat shopping whatever they're doing he does
not get off the boat at any of these stops he's laying low let's say I'm on a boat then they decide to go to Santa
Barbara for like three maybe four days on July 30th 1983 uh Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department responded to
a call for assistance of an attempted rape on a boat that was docked next to the Handy's boat and Pelican Pelican
Cove the 26 year old female victim reported that a man she identified as Kevin Cooper attempted to rape her at knife
Point Cooper tried to flee when the authorities came to the dock to arrest him the sheriff's observed Cooper throw
an object into the water before he Dove off the Handy's boat swam to a dinghy and started to row for sure the
sheriff's recovered a knife from the water where Cooper attempted his unsuccessful Escape he was arrested so
let's break this down very quickly because if if you pour over every single minute detail we're going to be here for
days so a summary of what's wrong with that of what we've covered well you're saying I smell no you smell fine it's uh
thank you there's not a whole lot of ammo in the garage fridge if you know what I mean all right
so let's break down what we've covered so far four people are murdered in the middle of the night inside the Ryan home
one little boy eight-year-old Josh he survives survives he gives a description of three men all either Caucasian or
maybe Hispanic as being in the home during the murders police would later learn that an escaped
convict Kevin Cooper was hiding out in the home nearest the murder house for two days leading up to the murders he
says he fled to Mexico and law enforcement is going to say yes he fled to Mexico but before he did that he
killed those four people well why did he do that what's his motive well he's an escaped convict he needs to steal money
and their car to get out of Dodge so we know the car was stolen right now there's been
this is this is one thing that you and I have spoke about multiple times on this
show there are so every report I've come across never mentions anything being stolen
from the Ryan home nothing ever mentions you know in fact there's some reports that state outwardly State nothing was
taken from the home we know the car was taken but you and I've like I said we've
talked about this before unless you have a running inventory of everything inside
the home I don't know that we can say with certainty that nothing was stolen from the home that's right I mean if
these if one if the husband or wife came home with five hundred dollars cash in their
purse or pocket that day we wouldn't know that yeah but and also think about how many times you come in the garage
every week and guitars come in and out and instruments coming in and out you probably notice it sometimes but you
couldn't tell me what was different no you exactly and that's what I think I don't think anybody can point out with
100 certainty that nothing was stolen from the home I completely agree with you now what about the car we know the
car was stolen where was the car found the car was eventually found in Long Beach California so if you went Long
Beach California and then on to Tijuana it's a little more than four and a half hours by car from the murder house so
this actually leaves enough time for Cooper to commit the murders drive to Long Beach and then escape to Mexico and
still check into the hotel on June 5th at 4 pm so you're saying there's a chance well we also need to discuss
quickly how the police got on to Cooper because we have a weird situation here Captain don't we we're
this situation they they are looking for Kevin Cooper it's not like he's arrested
for this attempted rape charge and then they back into evidence pointing that he
committed these murders well actually what happened go ahead hold on technically they're looking for David
Troutman looking for Kevin Cooper using the Alias possibly using the Alias of Troutman
the thing here though what's weird is they kind of they find some evidence to back into this thought that Kevin Cooper
is the one that committed these murders and it's it might be considered loosey-goosey but like we talked about
what is a coincidence when we're talking about these cases is it evidence or is a
coincidence right so the situation is this they find a bloody footprint bloody shoe print I should say at the home at
the murder scene this is believed to be from a type of shoe called a pro Ked now at this vacant home nearest the
Ryan's house they find loose tobacco and it's believed that this was roll right brand tobacco
well why is that significant it's significant because this is the type of tobacco that was given out for free to
inmates of the prisons at the time the way that the system was set up back then was this if you had money in your
account you could buy whatever brand of cigarettes you prefer to smoke right but
to keep you got to keep these guys um orderly you know you don't want pure chaos there people killing each other
over cigarettes well maybe we do so what they would do is they would hand out this cheap loose tobacco and you
could roll your own cigarettes well it's believed that Kevin Cooper would often roll his own cigarettes with this roll
right brand of tobacco provided to them for free at the prison so what does that
have to do with the shoe print well the shoe print the pro kids were shoes that were issued to prisoners
so they have these two items that they find one at the crime scene one at the what I've been calling The Hideout house
there's also a question though where's this one footprint found the footprint that I there was there were
several shoe prints that are discussed in this case the one that I'm discussing right now is one that was found on a
sheet inside of the home of the Ryan's home so they have some evidence pointing them to
a possible prisoner or somebody that would have you know would have this free tobacco from a prison would be wearing
shoes that are issued at a prison so their thought is well let's let's check to see if there's any people that have
been recently escaped from prison that's where they come up with this Troutman or
Cooper as their possible suspect so they have this situation where they have they
they think they're looking for the murder and they think they know who the murderer is they find him down uh in
Santa Barbara after this alleged alleged attempted rape a local citizen discovered a hatchet this was on June
5th 1983. on the side of English Road this is the only paved Road leading from the Ryan home out of the immediate area
the hatchet was covered with blood stains uh the head of the hatchet was covered by dried blood and it had human
hairs on it as well some of the hairs were consistent with those of Doug and Josh Ryan
now the Dr Irving root who performed the autopsies concluded that the hatchet could have inflicted The Chopping wounds
suffered by the victims well it's believed that this Hatchet came from The Hideout house
why because like I said those men would rent out this home and we have the previous tenant saying
that look when I lived there and she she moved out of there at the end of May so
literally just like what a couple days before Cooper decides to show up at this house
she says while I lived there there was a hatchet that was inside this home and it
matched the one you know the description matches the one that was found on the side of the road that has the victim's
blood on it right but there's a lot of houses that have a hatchet true and let's just point out let's be clear
this is 1983 let's also point out that the people that they're saying that that hatchet probably came from our place
they are white let's just put that out there okay um anyway this Hatchet according to her and
according to the owners of the home it was in their house before these murders took place
we also have this range situation of the sheath that goes over the hatchet right
Captain so this sheath was supposedly found on the you know in in one of the rooms of this Hideout house right
so meaning that somebody would have to take off the cover once they take off the cover then they
go up the hill they create the murders as they drive down the hill in their car they're going to toss out this hatchet
on the side of the road correct correct and that is actually going to be pretty much the law enforcement's theory on
this case the theory being this Kevin Cooper was staying at this Hideout house he decides
that he needs money and a car to get him to Mexico he decides to break into this home and
when he breaks in he's confronted by I guess the husband or the wife or somebody and his reaction is to murder
everybody in the house and he only leaves that house after he thinks everyone is dead not knowing that the
eight-year-old boy would later survive right then he takes a beer from the fridge
in the house where he killed these people drinks the beer carries his items with
him from this house where he committed these murders back to The Hideout house where he's going to clean up
and later take their car dispose of the hatchet and make his way to Mexico but first he's going to stop in Long Beach
and dump the car yeah so do we have any evidence from the car then we do and and
here's the thing though I apologize I think it wasn't until like five to seven days after the murders that the vehicle
was located I I can't find it in my in my notes here to be certain of that but if memory serves me correct then it was
about five to seven days after the murders that the vehicle was found in Long Beach inside the vehicle police
found loose tobacco on the front passenger seat and floorboard they also found blood stains and I wanna I'm gonna
throw a caveat in here a buyer beware to everybody out there listening regarding these blood stains inside the
vehicle the Ryan's vehicle I found reports that are all over the shop as to how much blood was found in
the car and where the blood was located some reports state that there were blood
stains on the front passenger seat and on the driver's side door jamb there are also reports out there that suggest that
blood stains were found in the back seat of the vehicle as well so we have where we have one situation
where the blood stains might suggest that only one person one bloodied person stole this vehicle and moved it there's
also evidence out there that suggests that maybe more than one bloodied person was in that vehicle now the car did not
appear to have been hot wired this is I included this statement because I'm uncertain if the keys were stolen
for this car right I'm guessing that they might be because we can we have to believe that the person that stole this
vehicle was inside the Ryan home you know also if you're kind of secluded from people that maybe you leave your
keys in your car I mean I've hung out with a lot of buddies that had lived on farms and stuff and they they'd never
take their keys out of that car yeah I I used to know somebody that would put it on the uh wheel yeah have
you ever seen people do that but the key on the wheel here you go I had a car once and that congratulations yeah
was so like worn down I swear you could have put any key into that ignition and it would have started
like I I think I actually did that one time I put the wrong key in and it turned over it still work yeah anyway
but there were two cigarette butts that were found inside the vehicle okay so one of them was a hand rolled cigarette
this was found in a crevice of the front passenger seat this is the same loose uh
believed to be roll right brand tobacco which is provided for free to the cim inmates right but you could buy this
tobacco just on the like on the open market right I know you couldn't according to Mike now I mind you I
didn't smoke cigarettes back in 1983 or live in California so I couldn't tell you yeah I couldn't tell you with
certainty but from what I found is this roll right tobacco was provided for free
to the inmates and not available for retail how would they know what kind of brand of tobacco would be uh
uh okay in all honesty we have a lot of people that would testify later in court that it appears
to be this roll right brand of tobacco I gotta be honest with you Captain I don't know how they would know that I I
don't know how they would know that for certainly if you take if I gave you three bags of loose tobacco
you're not going to know which one is which well and what I mean by that too not just if you gave it to me because I
I don't don't know tobacco very well anyway but I'm saying if you gave it to somebody that worked at a manufacturing
plant which these are the types of people that testified at court I think if you gave them if we broke open three
cigarettes right now or bought three different kinds of loose leaf tobacco like you said put them in different
baggies and handed them to them they're taking the Pepsi Challenge and they don't pass that test I don't see
how they would identify those to be anything other than loose tobacco right but I think that's the key here is you
go okay we don't need to go to the fine you know ballpoint pin right we just need to we need to have a marker line
right so we just need to go hey we have a loose tobacco now in 1983 there's probably more people rolling cigarettes
than they are now or was at the height of when people smoked but it's still important because that's a very small
it's a lot smaller percentage well and then you have another issue here too they also found a manufactured cigarette
butt was found in the front passenger seat of the car so so what we do know is we have a
smoker yes and how do we know that those cigarettes came from the person that stole the car
we don't we we don't know that for certain and we can get into these cigarette butts more later but the law
enforcement is going to have an answer for this because here again just like with the blood stains in the car captain
that you could present an argument that it was one bloodied perpetrator that was
inside that car or it was multiple bloodied perpetrators that was inside that car the two having two different
types of cigarettes found in the vehicle might suggest more than one person having been in the vehicle the problem
with this though is we have Kevin Cooper who admittedly stayed at this Hideout house well the owner of the the Mr lease
who is one of the owners of the home said that he would leave Viceroy brand cigarettes in that house and that they
were gone after Cooper had apparently stayed there right so you have this thing where maybe he
smoked some of that loose tobacco that he brought with him from the prison when he escaped and did he steal the Viceroy
cigarettes while he was at the house if that's the case that could explain away that we don't have two different
people smoking two different kinds of cigarettes we have one individual just smoking whatever he can get his hands on
at the time one if you have a bloody individual that goes inside the passenger seat goes into the driver's
seat goes into the back seat and that's going to make it seem like there's maybe
possibly more than one individual as well while we're on the topic of the cigarettes found in the vehicle Captain
I do want to point out that several tests were conducted on these cigarette butts so we have saliva test on the two
cigarette butts in the Ryan station wagon these results were consistent with cigarettes having been Smoked by a
non-secreter which we do know Kevin Cooper is a non-secreter only about 20 percent of the population are
non-secretors this doesn't mean that it was exactly him so what the heck does that mean it just means that he is he
has similar makeup to the person that did smoke these cigarettes now the blood type of the person who smoked the
manufactured cigarette that was found was determined to be type A which is also consistent with Kevin Cooper's
blood type but now that we have DNA why haven't we tested these items that's a good question
um because it still doesn't prove the murder but at least it proves um him inside their car well note I
don't think that it does um Oh you mean if it were tested for DNA right I just met with the evidence that
we currently have what I think is interesting about this evidence though that they present here it doesn't
specifically name Kevin Cooper as the person who smoked those cigarettes and left them inside the Ryan station wagon
but neither test excludes him from being that person either [Music] we got a ton more to get to please join
us back here in the garage tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't let it [Music]

Kevin Cooper /// Part 1 /// 219

Part 1 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Chino Hills, California, 1983 - In the dark of night, evil lurks around a house at the top of a hill. A sliding door was left unlocked and evil makes it's way inside the home. A sleeping family are surprised and slaughtered. One victim survives and tells a story that doesn't fit the evidence found at the scene. A suspect is quickly identified, and the manhunt began. Kevin Cooper is arrested, convicted and sentenced to death for the murders. The evidence is overwhelming. But was it suspiciously overwhelming? Did the police plant evidence? For more than 30 years, Cooper has proclaimed his innocence from a cell on death row. This week we discuss the horrific murders of the Ryen family and little Christopher Hughes. We will try to determine if Kevin Cooper is guilty of these murders. Beer of the Week - Grapefruit Double IPA by Claremont Craft Ales Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

The episode examines the Ryan family murders and Kevin Cooper's controversial trial for the crime.

Key points

A Gruesome Attack. Joshua Ryan shares his harrowing experience of surviving a brutal attack.
The Ryan Family's New Home. The Ryans move to a new house in Chino Hills, fulfilling Peggy's dream.
A Night of Horror. The Ryan family hosts a potluck dinner, unaware of the tragedy that awaits them.
The Boy's Testimony. Eight-year-old Josh identifies three men involved in the attack, but his accounts vary.
Kevin Cooper's Background. Cooper's troubled childhood and criminal history come to light as the case unfolds.
The Escape. Cooper escapes from prison just days before the murders, raising suspicions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I guess killing so many people can make a man thirsty.

Joshua Ryan reflects on the attacker's actions after the murders.

5:26WatchNov 25, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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