JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family | Forensic Files

foreign Little Miss Colorado six-year-old murder victim JonBenet Ramsey unknown Intruder
her brother [Applause] [Music] JonBenet Ramsey [Applause] they still have not interviewed the
parents [Music] my life has been held from that type of purpose and I want nothing more than to
find out who was responsible for this [Music] foreign six a former school teacher John Mark
Carr confessed out of the blue to the 1996 strangulation of JonBenet and graphic sexual detail on August 17 2006
Thailand authorities arrested John Mark Carr a 42 year old American teacher he'd
been living in Thailand on the lamb after facing child pornography charges in the U.S
Carr had been emailing a Colorado professor and was making incriminating statements about his involvement in
jonbenet's death the boulder District Attorney's Office wanted to charge him with murder
he was extradited back to United States and brought to Boulder Colorado to be arraigned for her murder
this from August 20th 2006 from cnn.com a video titled in Carr's own words a reporter asked I am with the
Associated Press can you give us a brief statement Carr replies I I love JonBenet
and she died accidentally reporter asked are you an innocent man Carr says no what happened Carr replies
um her death was an accident so you were in the basement car says yes the reporter asked can you tell us about
your connection to the Ramsey family Carr says no he cannot comment on that how did you or how did you get into the
basement again Carr says no comment on that reporter and how how do you feel now
how have you been treated Carr says I've been treated okay asked how long had you known JonBenet
and again he says I have no comment on that here are some other statements made by
Carr Carr says I was with JonBenet when she died now this is not technically a confession but more of an admission he
did not say I killed JonBenet just I was with JonBenet when she died another one of Carr's interesting
statements and this of course is in regards to JonBenet he says it's very important for me that everyone knows
that I love her very much that her death was unintentional that it was an accident
then the September 4 2006 issue of People magazine claims they have an exclusive jailhouse interview with John
Mark Carr turns out this was not the case in fact People magazine interviewed the Thailand authorities who told them
what car said they say that Carr said the Ramses feel their daughter was brutally murdered and
she wasn't it looks like that but she wasn't I want them to hear the truth I need closure and her family needs
closure all of us have gone through enough pain then the boulder district attorney
announced that they were dropping the charges against John Mark Carr and the JonBenet Ramsey murder they say it turns
out DNA on the body at the scene did not match that of Carr's DNA secondly a great defense is always a
good Alibi it has been reported that the police never interviewed Carr's family prior to his arrest and extradition to
the United States most people know where they were during the Christmas season Carr's family has always said and always
maintain their statements that Carr was with them when JonBenet was killed but car says the DNA might not match but you
can't trust the test yeah and it's possible and we can get into the DNA later not matching but it seems like
he's just seeking out attention and that is a lion [ __ ] princess well he's got a face for camera
[Laughter] he has a face for radio yeah he no I I'm joking I mean he's he's not uh he's
fugly right he's Less Pleasant to look at than he is to listen to on July 9th I want to get into this real quick here
because it's going to translate into further discussion that we'll get into on July 9 2008 Mary Lacy the boulder
district attorney announced it recently developed touch DNA technology had cleared all members of JonBenet Ramsey's
family of her slang DNA from an unknown male was found on two articles of clothing on jonbenet's
person many have argued and I believe very rightfully so why this DNA evidence clears the family if it in fact should
even clear the family at all being John Patsy and Burke right this DNA evidence only proves two things that an unknown
male was possibly present at the crime scene we do not know where the DNA came from and
that the DNA does not belong to the Ramsay family as statement analysis.com put it this evidence does not exonerate
the Ramses it does not prove they were not present or were not involved or do not know who killed JonBenet regardless
of all of that the DNA found on JonBenet did not match Carr's DNA and the murder
charges were in fact dropped he was sent to California to face child pornography
charges I want to stay on this DNA for just a little bit longer because one of the reasons why they believe
that this DNA shouldn't be tested against anybody that comes forward or any suspect is that they don't know if
it's a mixture of DNA it they go well it's a single male that's what they believe it is
but even in the test results it says it could be two to three males like a combination
not meaning that there's even two or three people involved in her murder just that this DNA is a combination
of it could be a combination of multiple people therefore you'll never get a match when you're comparing multiple
people's DNA to one person right and I mean it's interesting that that we have the DNA and it was found on two articles
of clothing on her that were on her person as she lay there in that wine cellar which is of Interest I don't
think it should be ignored I think and I'm going off of expert opinion as well and just really agreeing with them
where several experts have stated that they don't find this type of DNA evidence to be
of any value when it comes to eliminating a suspect or or trying to convict a suspect right that it's simply
for now until we can prove otherwise it's simply for now DNA that we we can't identify
that is believed to come from a man doesn't seem to match any of the Ramses but we don't know how it got there or
how long it was there yeah and it's hard for me to believe that with such a vicious attack there would be no DNA
left at the scene at all but again I think everybody involved in this case or anybody that has researched this case
can start off with the idea that the crime scene is heavily contaminated and I actually don't want to fault I don't
want to fault law enforcement too much for that because I I do believe they went into this situation going it's a
kidnapping and yes what they should have done is stop everything and go let's make sure that this is actually
kidnapping and there's no child in this house but they missed that step and that
caused a blunder of other things to go wrong because of the date it happened on I think it's reasonable to see why they
missed that step I I somewhat agree with you I but I disagree in a sense that I don't think that anybody in the public
should feel any less safe on December 26th than they would any other time of year any other date that I
agree that's on the calendar yeah and and you're right in in a way that because it's been by Boulder Colorado's
own detectives and police that state this couldn't have happened on a worse day this is the day that it's toughest for
us to get a full staff to get the most people working it's just a it's a bad day scheduling wise no right but it
turns out it's a great day to commit a murder right but what I mean by that is that maybe that these officers would
miss a step one because it's right after a holiday but two because they just spent time with their friends and family
and so when you hear oh we have a kidnapping like I said it could just be as simple
as well we're gonna believe the parents right away when maybe they want it if it
was three weeks later yeah I also think that my wishes truly are that Boulder Police Department that they would have
treated it as a kidnapping as soon as they were notified of a kidnapping and that does not appear to have taken place
to me right let's talk about Linda Hoffman Pew she worked for the Ramses she was their housekeeper this is one
thing that separates her from many of the other people that we've already discussed she had a key to the home she
had a key to the Ramsay's house her husband Mervin worked with Linda and for the Ramses on a few occasions on the
evening of 12 27 1996 this is the day after all of the the mess that we just kind of touched upon at the the Ramsey
home in the investigation police showed up at the pews home and they wanted her to write the number 118
000 on a piece of paper and reportedly took her fingerprints in several strands of her hair at that time as well
Linda confirmed the police's suspicions of JonBenet possibly having a bed-wetting problem
there are several Publications that say Linda accuses Patsy Ramsey of killing JonBenet and it appears that she did I
believe this may just have been in retaliation especially after learning that the Ramses put Linda and her
husband on a list of people they would consider to be suspects and then some extended family pointed to them as well
the extended Ramsay family member told police Linda had asked Patsy for a loan many Publications out there stated that
the Ramses refused to help her out and Linda's family was struggling and desperately needed the money this sounds
very ominous and certainly presents a cloud of Suspicion but let's clear a bunch of things up here Linda did in
fact ask Patsy for a loan the loan amount was for two thousand dollars and Patsy and John
they agreed to help her out they gave her the money and the agreement was that they would take two hundred dollars out
of each of her paychecks until the loan was paid back yeah that makes sense also
it wasn't like Linda was super desperate for money yes her and her husband struggled at times but she had a good
job working for the Ramses and Mervin was even able to pick up some work because of her job as well
the loan was for car repairs and dental work these both being emergency situations that can be expensive that
spring up without notice we have all experienced this right let's keep in mind too even more so than the Ramses
the police were considering everyone with a key to the home to be a suspect at that time in the investigation do you
see some of the reports that speculate that there was as many as 20 keys not not accounted for I've seen multiple
numbers reported over the years one thing that is pointed out by the detectives that were working the case
was the when they first started off investigating the murder as soon as they knew it was a murder
they wanted to know who had keys and how many were out there and that number that
was provided to them by the Ramses was much much different than what their investigation would lead them to to find
now Linda was someone who had a key to the home as we stated and regardless of what some of these Publications say that
are out there Linda when first questioned by police never suggested that Patsy or John were guilty of
anything other than loving their children she even stated that she worried about
the beautiful little girl meaning JonBenet who was allowed to ride her bike unsupervised and said someone must
have seen her and attempted to take the little girl this statement obviously pointing toward
an unknown Intruder rather than the Ramses Mervin however told police that the few
times he was in the home he found the home to be very difficult to navigate saying if you just turned around you'd
get lost this statement pointing toward an Insider if it was an intruder of course Hoffman Pugh does not even fit
the profile the police were working with which was white male former convict 25 to 30 years old Hoffman Pugh was 57 at
the time and her husband was about the same age years later she did testify in front of
a grand jury for a total of eight hours including a statement against Patsy that
read quote I think she had multiple personalities should be in a good mood and then should be cranky she got into
arguments with JonBenet the Linda Hoffman Pew Theory as it goes says the housekeeper led a trusting JonBenet down
into the basement that night an attempt to trick her employers into leaving money for her Ransom it is possible that
she could have seen John Ramsey's pay stub for one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars as a bonus
familiar with both the home and the family's schedule Hoffman Pugh makes a convenient suspect and without a solid
Alibi she says she was asleep in bed while her husband allegedly slept on the couch she has however never been
formally accused of this crime and there's really no evidence pointing to her just speculation by
mainly a lot of it coming from Patsy's mother now we've spent the last episode and portion of this episode discussing
some of the people we believe should be in the conversation of suspects there they're nobody in there
that we are specifically saying should be a suspect just when you want to look at people that you might want to look
into with the investigation these would all be people that the captain and I would take a look at there are a few
people that we haven't discussed yet and that would be some true insiders in this
case the three Ramsay family members that were inside the home obviously we cannot discuss every person
that's ever been thought to be a suspect by whomever out there yeah I mean we we
thought about after the second episode just go and screw it let's do a hundred episodes
on this case but then we decided against that well just the suspects alone would
be extremely exhausting one to report and two to listen to as well because the Ramses John and Patsy Supply Boulder
police with a list of suspects the list that they gave to police now it grew as the investigation went on right but the
latest report that I heard was that that number was at 168. that the Ramses gave the police
department 168 people to look at and obviously their names were not included on this list so right but if
your child was murdered and you weren't involved at some point you would start just naming everybody you knew just to
have them look at anybody because they're not at this point you don't know who they've looked at what leads they
have uh where they're going how close they are so at some point you're you start
becoming desperate I get that and that's that just like everything else in this case is where you can take one bit of
information and you could use it to argue for or against the Ramses yeah so where every one of us would expect
innocent people to supply a very lengthy list and a desperation to find Justice for their daughter
the flip side of that is the suspicion of going well they have something to hide so they're providing
police with this very extensive list giving them all these errands and chores to do to really steer the direction of
the investigation away from themselves to further compound that a bit we do have statements by Patsy Ramsey
who says at some point in the investigation she was suspicious of uh saying that she believed the killer
could have been a Colorado University student well that adds several thousands more
people to the list of suspects so it's really one of those tricky things the other thing that I found
interesting about this and this is actually a real I think this is a very possibly legit answer we do know that
the Ramses did provide a suspect list that's not in question that absolutely happened what I believe is in question
is the number of people that the Ramses put on that list right because that number has been reported all over the
shop it's a pretty high number I'll say that but I found this statement to be it's really a response that John Ramsey
had it either shows his level of intelligence or his level of Innocence or possibly his level of he thinks he
might be set up being wrongfully accused of something it was this one of his friends contacted
him their conversation was Ramsay wanted to know well why did you say you said some things about me that I
didn't really like right and his friend or acquaintance I don't know that the strength of their
relationship and the the statements themselves they they weren't even really a big deal in
my opinion but the friend says to John well I only said that stuff because uh or I only said that you should be a
suspect because police came to me and told me that you told them that I should be a suspect right
and John Ramsey's response to that was look I didn't say you should be a suspect
they're just telling you and telling everybody else out there in our our Circle of Friends
and co-workers that we have said everybody else is a suspect they're they're trying to stir
the pot is what John Ramsey's basically saying they're trying to stir the pot so
that you will give them stuff about us you will give them dirt on us so it's really one of those really
difficult things to kind of sift through who is right who is wrong and what this
particular thing could mean I in the beginning of of this investigation thought that that number of 168 people
named as suspects by the Ramsay was a crazy number and it pointed to something that they might be trying to hide right
as I go through it I question that action less and less and less one thing we do need to talk about too
which added suspicion in the Public's eye to the Ramses and I believe it added suspicion in the eyes of law enforcement
as well working the case is what has always been referred to as the Ramses hiding behind a wall of
lawyers and some people have even gone as far to call this wall of lawyers team Ramsey
the one of the attorneys hired by the Ramses was this is from an old case and it's from representation to a person
named Lee Lindsay her husband was shot to death inside their home now Lee Lindsay was found innocent John
hired that same defense attorney to represent him it's an interesting strategy again it's
just another one of those things that you could argue either side this points to him having something to hide this
points to him just wanting good representation so he doesn't get wrongfully accused
John and Patsy had different attorneys and Burke had his own attorney as well now we should point out they're all paid
for by John Ramsey but they're all receiving separate representation some people point to that as being
very strange or something very weird I really to me Captain my opinion on that I could go either way on it I I
would I would really want somebody with a strong opinion on it to to offer up their opinion to me as to why I should
feel one way or the other about it I don't really think that it points to anything I think
again initially it pointed to me that well if let's pretend I'm the husband and and
there's what does that make me Patsy when you're not involved in this okay if I'm the husband in a situation where
my my child has been killed and the police are now looking at me and my wife as potential suspects which you know
they're going to what if I'm in a situation where I know I'm innocent but I don't fully know if my spouse is
innocent right well then it would make very much sense if I hired an attorney for me and if I had if I were a man of
money then I would probably hire one for her as well but we would be represented by two
different people because my interest in her interest in this investigation are not the same and
therefore we need different representation yeah it'd be awesome if you're a man of money because we could
turn on the heat in the garage now the flip side of that is what if I know that I'm innocent and I know my wife to be
innocent as well I know that a very common police tactic and detective tactic would be for them to separate us
and question us at the same time in separate areas in separate locations thus making it impossible
for the attorney representing both of us to physically represent both of us during that situation right
you see how this pendulum swings back and forth it's it's aggravating it's interesting it's truly a fascinating
case but with a lot with a lot of unanswered questions right but I view it from the standpoint of what
John Ramsey says the day of the crime he talks to police officers the day of the crime they have
Burke talked to investigator without anybody present they also send Burke to their friend's house where he could have
said God knows what if if he was responsible for this or if he knew what happened
what John Ramsey says is that they're willing to cooperate they had some suspicion from their
friends saying you probably should get a lawyer to help you through all this but
when the police would not give back her body so they could have the burial that's when John said that was the line
drawn in the sand and you don't want to give our dead child back so we can bury her until you
have a sit down sit-down conversation with both him and Patsy and I think at that
point he realized this was kind of war and I think he was I don't even think it was whether it was
right or wrong I think it was just like I think he felt that it was very disrespectful
and from then on I'm not going to play by your rules [Music] [Music] all right cheers mates
cheers Captain this week we are sipping on a little Christmas Ale by the good people at Great Lakes Brewing Company
garage grade that would be five bottle caps pick up some Christmas Ale for yourself for your
family for this year's festivities all right Captain we are kind of the point now where we're really only left with
about three people left to discuss and these would be the complete total insiders in this whole entire case
the three Ramsay family members that were inside the home the night that JonBenet was killed
we mentioned yesterday the experts or several people that stated that they believe in an intruder theory is the
best theory for this case regarding The Insider Theory we have CBS Robert wrestler Greg McQueary Dr Cyril wecht
and Steve Thomas two retired FBI agents that is the flip side of the coin of John Douglas I guess and we have Cyril
wecht who is an expert in forensics as well as Steve Thomas who would be the flip side of the coin for Lou Smith Lou
Smith was brought in to work this investigation for the prosecutors for the team of prosecutors
Steve Thomas was a member of the Boulder Police Department and was a detective at
the time and he was one of the lead investigators on the Ramsey investigation the strange thing being here is that
these two investigators worked on the same team at the same time of the same investigation and had two completely
different opinions on what happened what took place who was responsible for the murder and both of them
believed so strongly in their Theory that the evidence that they could see backed up what they suspected so much so
that both of them eventually resigned from working the case at all and that's pretty strong commitment to your theory
yeah 100 percent we have stated that some people were eliminated whatever words you want to
use in regards to very things that are very specific like handwriting possibly DNA
Alibis alibis the only true people that in my that I'm willing to go along with and agree with
that have been officially cleared in this case were cleared very early on in the investigation and there were only
four of them and that would be John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey John's two older children right as well as Fleet
and Priscilla White those four have been officially cleared and I agree with all four of those
statements this being basically that it was proven to be physically impossible for any of
these four people to be involved because they have an iron-clad alibi the two older children were not even in the
state of Colorado they would need to either own a private jet or a time machine to or teleport yeah have
possibly been able to commit this crime and it appears the same way with Fleet and Priscilla white as well based off of
they had a bunch of guests at their home overnight and there's just multiple people stating that until the wee hours
of the morning they're both accounted for it's not like one of these statements like oh we went to bed at
eight o'clock and I didn't get up and do anything until the next morning no they
were up hanging out with these people until until the wee hours of the morning they were pulling what I call a crispy
kernel so this leaves us with three of the more popular suspects in this case and you know I remember when I was a
child and this case was in the news that there were people screaming at the top of their lungs the parents did it the
parents did it and then years later a popular Theory came out that maybe the brother did it either way for somebody
in the home to have killed JonBenet without question there has to be a cover-up and then you have to go to the
extent of how many people do you believe were to be involved in that cover-up and
why the the need for the cover-up in the first place John Ramsey was a popular suspect early
on and this would be based off of the salacious photos that came out of this young six-year-old blonde and these
beauty pageants wearing clothing and outfits that people didn't think were appropriate
and you carry that out a little further people wondered well could she have been sexually abused was
there abuse going on in inside the home and could John Ramsey be guilty of such abuse
the other thought here is we have Patsy Ramsey the Patsy Ramsey Theory to me is is I think
I was going to say interesting but I don't think that's the right word I think it's complicated is is the better
word and I say that because in regards to Patsy having killed JonBenet and then covered it up
it seems like there could be many motivating factors for Patsy right where with John it seems pretty cut and dried
that it's just either that he must have been abusing her sexually and it led to this and then it was covered up now well
it seems like we have evidence that points against the idea that she was abused long-term
and the the where the place where this Theory then splits is you could go okay well did
Patsy help him cover up cover it up or was she aware of other things going on or not right with the Patsy Theory it's
it's a number of things it could be that JonBenet with the bed and there was an attack an impulsive attack that took
place and then it was covered up later or she was in some weird way jealous that her daughter is being molested by
her husband and flew into some kind of Rage yeah or it's possible that she was molesting her daughter herself she was
molesting the daughter one interesting Theory too is that John's molesting the daughter in in some type of
what was meant to be a heroic act to come in and and attack this man attack her husband who's violating her daughter
that in some freak accident she accidentally struck JonBenet in the head instead and then
they worked together to cover it up the theories are as bizarre as you can imagine and then there's others that
that make some sense now mind you you need the evidence to back them up yes and this is where
that might even get more complex but I believe based on the autopsy that it shows that JonBenet was not being
molested for years so to me that rules out Patsy molesting JonBenet or John molesting JonBenet I
also would find it very strange to have a situation where we have molestation of a child of your own child
in a house that there is no pornography at all found or any claims At All by any
friends they had a lot of close friends no claims whatsoever about child abuse so to me I think you can take that off
the table I certainly don't lean that way that that was the situation that that was
what was going on long term and I backed that up by saying look this John was not a first time father
okay he had other children that have nothing but good things to say about him usually with an offender that would
would reoffend on the same victim over and over again it's not uncommon that they just
victimize one child right but it's more common that they victimize more than one
of the children so I don't lean that way and it also appears that out of the this was a young girl that was very well
cared for in the sense that she had 27 doctors visits in the course of three years now some people call that into
suspicion I'm fine with that it's suspicious to me too but what's not suspicious is a lot of times when there
is some form of physical abuse or sexual abuse you're not running to the doctor for every little thing that comes up
because sometimes a doctor can detect these things or can question marks on a child
there's things with with JonBenet and and her body and and the examines the the examinations of her body and these
doctor visits I don't think that we can 100 rule out the possibility of some type of sexual abuse it just
doesn't seem like anybody people that have first-hand knowledge of all these situations and of JonBenet it
doesn't seem that anybody leans that direction right these are these are things that could be explained Away by
sexual abuse but also could be explained away a million other ways and have been
irritations due to wetting the bed wetting yourself irritations to bubble bath you know any number of different things
going on here so yeah I'm with you Captain I don't see a situation where we have long-term sexual abuse now that
doesn't mean that sexual abuse cannot be the motivating factor for what happened
here it very well could be that this was the very first time that this ever took
place and it went it ended in Murder right I think if you believe that then you have to believe the evidence of the
autopsy and that means that there would have been something that happened on the
23rd so again like you said it's new developing um sexual molestation but by a parent I
just I just don't see it there I just think there's such a lack of evidence of that and I think it makes maybe a little
more sense with the idea of this bed wedding becomes a issue and the person that's dealing with it constantly is
Patsy and so something happened there but again it it's strange to me it's just it's this is so complicated
because you have to start picking what happened first and I don't believe a hit or the fracture of
the skull happen first so if that did happen first and somebody could prove to me that happened first
then I'd go well yeah Patsy got a little upset and and pushed her and she hit her
head or she accidentally hit hit JonBenet on top of the head with something and then use this grunt to
cover it up but I just don't see that to be the case in regards can you can you clear up what
you mean by something occurring on the 23rd well because the because they examined
our claims that the the day that she was murdered there's evidence that there's digital molestation right
and that but there's also evidence that it would have happened and when we use the word chronic he was stating that it
probably happened on the 22nd or the 23rd so there's evidence of some kind of molestation on the day she was murdered
and then on the 22nd and the 23rd so meaning if it was somebody on the inside it could have been the second
time that such an act took place yeah I'm just I'm taking that off the table because to me it doesn't there's no
evidence that points and I just there's no evidence that points that John Ramsey was doing that there's no
evidence that points that Patsy Ramsey was doing that no I agree with you too I'm not willing
to take it off the table because it sounds like the medical examiner says that something took place right and
look she's in the company of her family more than anybody else she's a six-year-old child
so I won't take it off the table when they're still there's still reason to leave it on the table
I think the the difficulty with this case as you were the road you were starting
to go down there is one it's it's a it's a general misconception in this case that the belief that she was struck on
the head and then strangled with this garage and the whole strangulation of the garage was an act to cover up an
accidental hit to the Head a strike to the Head which of course duh anybody could make a
case for that to have been Patsy Burke John what have you the problem being is it seems that all
the experts seem to agree that the strangulation came first and the strike on the head
occurred either at the same time or shortly after so what that says to me is that the use
of this garage of this strangulation of whatever was happening before JonBenet was struck on the head
you it can't be a cover-up in the sense that the garage was not used as a cover-up
the strangulation was not used as a cover-up this occurred before the strike on the head right and then there's
multiple things to point us to this one she has defensive wounds meaning that JonBenet when she was being strangled
with this grot she tried to pull it off her neck and there's indents all over her neck
fingernail indents to show that she was conscious when she was being choked and she tried to stop
it if she was hit on the head that blow to the head that caused that massive fracture
would have left her probably brain dead she would have had severe brain swelling
she would have had severe brain bleed so she wouldn't be able to be conscious to stop this attack
now is it possible that she was strangled for a while hit on the head and then strangled again
that's very possible but this idea that she was hit on the head first it's just it makes zero sense and I always
believed the CBS reports when I watched the first CBS documentary I went well there you go
that that seems like it makes a lot of sense and you have these paid investigators
and these forensic experts sitting on this board going yeah this is probably what happened or something to
that this effect you have to believe again the idea that JonBenet comes up and takes some
pineapple away from her brother and then he turns around and hits her on the head with some kind of object maybe
the flashlight that's what they said in the CBS report I think you said you don't think a
nine-year-old would be strong enough to do that blow I lean towards your expertise on that
but it's also you can't see the fracture you can see the fracture after the autopsy that's because to put it bluntly
they removed the skin right you can't there was no laceration there was no open head wound right she's not bleeding
all over the place the medical examiner the pathologist Dr Myers He was unaware of the Blow To The Head until till well
into the examination of the body right going off of sightseeing of what he sees at the at the uh crime scene and
what he sees on the body of the victim he's immediately going oh this was strangulation pretty obvious the rope's
still around her neck sorry right but it wasn't until further examination did he
discover this strike to the head and I'm look there have been experts out there again I'm no expert
but you're expert in the garage there have been experts out there that said yes a nine-year-old could do
could carry out this type of violent strike to the head of a small child and cause this amount of damage
I'm sorry man I've seen the the the pictures and unfortunately had to stare at him long enough I refuse to believe
that I I simply it it look at the pictures man let's go down this road for a second because
let's just say he was able to do that blow and let's just say that you can say Patsy saw him hit her
or didn't see Burke hit her at some point she comes upon her lifeless body but guess what she's still breathing
she is still breathing so maybe some time passes but you're going to tell me this mother that loves
her daughter isn't just going to call the ambulance because guess what we have evidence of what happens
when Burke hits his sister in the in the face with a golf club he gets in trouble they take her to the
emergency room do you think she comes upon her lifeless child's body but guess what the child is breathing
so you you want to tell me that she's not going to just call 9-1-1 and say hey we we need help we need the ambulance
because she would have no clue she is not a medical examiner she's not a doctor she's not a nurse
she has no clue you're I would assume that most people most adults that came across a six-year-old
that was unconscious and there was no evidence of her where she was hit that they want to call 9-1-1
to try to save their daughter's life so people want you to think that she just automatically
assumed that she was dead decided to make a garage and start choking her violently
not like half hazardly violently and choker so much that that rope moves places but then somehow during all this
JonBenet comes to and then defends the choking and once her child comes too she goes oh
well it's too late for you we're just covering this up for Burke we got to save Burke and then she continues to
choke and then we're gonna stage some molestation but again the evidence points that not
only did it happen that day but it probably happened a couple days before so did you stage that too
and then we got to start staging all these other things now we got to write this Ransom note
it just doesn't make a lot of sense and regardless if it makes sense or not the science doesn't back any of that up
that's what the science backs up is that she was strangled and then struck in the
head in that exact order right and what what backs that up is the what the science shows is a slowing of
the blood moving to the brain at that time right that's one piece of evidence meaning that she was either in the act
of dying when she was struck on the head or very you know she's in the act of dying or very close to death right
something is causing blood to be slowed or stop going to the brain and then she's struck in the head what stopped
that was the strangulation that was going on with the garage yeah at the time that she was struck on
the head so you're not using the garage to cover up being struck in the head you're not using sexual abuse to
cover up the strike to the Head what you have here is a situation where unfortunately we have sexual assault and
a a very vicious sexual act of cutting off the air to the to six-year-old to a six-year-old and then
during the commission of doing all that there is a strike to the Head whether the offender struck her on the head
because he believed she was dead and wanted to make sure or wanted to strike her on the head to cover up and confuse
what was going on at the scene we can't say we can't say that but what we can say based off of the science is that the
act of strangulation was taking place before the strike to the Head occurred so just to try to work somebody off of our
list if you're going to believe that Burke possibly did this then you have to reconcile the fact that she was being
choked before being struck on the head you have to take it a step further and say well he was he built this fancy
garage and he was choking her and then yeah and and look it makes for a good story but I don't
see the evidence to suggest that that's what in fact occurred what I do see evidence of is a
the problem with the people in the house is we have John who could be guilty we have
Patsy who could be guilty and then we could have all three that Were Somehow in on it together one thing that I
believe you can absolutely cross off your list and take off the table is that Burke did all of this by himself
take that one off because he's nine years old he didn't write that letter he didn't write that Ransom letter he
didn't construct that garage I don't know why a nine-year-old would be into this type of sexual assault that
I believe to be taking place in that basement right or how they would even know about that at all and then you
would have to convince me that he's strong enough to inflict that severe severe Blow To The Head and he also has
to write the note by himself right so there's and yeah and he has to tie the sophisticated
knots I just don't see that been a possibility and again maybe a heavy enough object
maybe you can create the fracture I'd be more interested to see if a nine-year-old could
inflict the damage around the neck with the grot because you'd have to be pulling pretty
pretty hard so I I just don't see it here's my thing though is I've been thinking about this a lot why did I
watch the CBS report and why did I believe that and some of it is because they just omit
certain pieces of evidence which come on shame on you right you have some uh agenda you have some
point you're trying to make so you just leave out all the pieces of evidence so therefore your
Point makes the most sense but I started thinking well well why does you know looking at the evidence that
we've done for the last few months why did America why it seems like almost all of America was fooled by this but I
think it's because it's easier it's easier to think that this was an accident it's easier to
think that a six-year-old would accidentally hit on the head by her brother the parents did not know what to
do they were scared that they're going to lose their son and then they did these horrible things
but on some level on a very small percentage we all can just justify their actions
because they didn't want to lose their son because maybe there was something wrong
with their son we've only seen one interview with him which is a very odd interview
as he has grown up I think that those are nervous reactions when he talks to Dr Phil but I think
when you see him as a child there's some strangeness in those interviews too but look it's a nine-year-old kid being
interrogated or being questioned after his little sister was murdered but I think it's easier to come to that
conclusion it's easier to think that than to think somebody took the time to make a device
to put around a six-year-old's neck and to pull it so tight that her brain was losing blood and
oxygen and was either molesting her or molesting themselves why they choked the life out of this little girl and
they either got so excited that they decided to smash her on the head splitting her skull pretty much in half
or like I have theorized that maybe after she was dead that when they were trying to carry her
out on some level they ended up dropping her and then they panicked and they left
but I think it's you see what I'm saying where I feel it's almost it's harder to imagine the latter
it's also very difficult to imagine that the parents did this it's almost easier than in a sense too
that an intruder should be guilty of such a terrible act and such a terrible attack on a child yeah
this is a very unpopular opinion but I lean toward the Intruder Theory as one that I feel to be more likely
I'm not willing to rule other possibilities out well again just with the with the Damage
Done the physical damage done to the victim what I see here is something that is beyond probably the
capabilities of the Ramses and I know that it happens all the time in America and
other countries as well right where a parent does something horrible unspeakable acts to their own child I
understand it I get it but at the end of the day when I can't make what I believe to be an educated
decision because the evidence is so messy then I have to go with my gut and what
my gut tells me is that from the pictures that I've seen of the Damage Done I feel like this this had to be an
intruder and I I will take that a step further by stating the the garage itself the construction of the garage the
construction of those knots that too appears to me to point toward a certain level of sophistication
meaning somebody that has fashioned one of these devices before right and if the Ramses are simply
trying to cover something up they've had they've never had a reason to construct
one before well all the items that made the garage made the ransom letter all everything
came from inside the house Nick well that's not in fact entirely true there were items inside the home that cannot
be ruled out as having caused the damage that was made by the blow to the head right but
we don't have any proof that there was an item inside the home that did in fact make that wound this made that strike to
the Head Right plus you got a scene that's very contaminated Plus on top of that just look at the pictures
we're talking about like to me extremely messy house which I would think would make
investigating a crime scene way harder so how does this all work out if in fact it was an intruder in my mind this is
how it plays out again I'm not willing to say this is 100 I'm not willing to not say that there are other
possibilities this is at the end of the day I put 51 percent of my eggs in this basket
if this is how the Intruder Theory goes down this is how it works and makes sense for me
yeah that she was targeted somebody broke into the home with the intention of abducting this child for
the purpose of sexual assault they may have broke into the home before or after the family came home I don't
know it seems to point to me more likely that they may have entered the home while the Ramses were gone right during
this time they brought with them a letter that they copied using stuff that they found in the home
using the felt pen we know that occurred using Patsy's notepad we know that occurred yeah and writing why they have
gloves on so we don't leave any DNA or fingerprints the difficulty with the letter itself is we have bark didn't
write it according to the analyst John didn't write it and then they put Patsy at the low end of the spectrum for
possibly writing it I know I'm reminding myself that we said earlier it would be irresponsible to
eliminate anybody based off of handwriting analysis the thing here though Captain is what
would be the purpose of a ransom letter I also stated and I believe you backed me up on this that the letter itself is
a farce what I meant by that is that there was no there was never any belief by the the author of that letter
or desire to actually collect any money from the family right the letter itself was simply a giant speed bump
to persuade the family not to contact the police and give this sick individual more time with the victim
Nick that never happens why would why would they add to the added risk of of putting themselves out there like that
just to buy some more time well I can point to one situation where in fact did happen
Amy mihalovic was abducted from the shopping plaza and allowed to call her mother at work after being in
the presence of the abductor yeah simply for the reason of delaying the mother being aware that there was
something wrong and guess what if the Ramses would have followed the instructions on that Ransom letter
they wouldn't have contacted the police but they did one thing that I find weird about the
note and we never discussed this uh the other day here Captain but one thing that I found extremely strange with
inside the note itself was how the author speaks in absolutes all the way up to one point and then
leaves the window open for a little bit of possibility a little bit of opportunity to foil the abductor's plan
where the author says if you do this she dies if you do this she dies if you don't cooperate with us
you run the risk of her being beheaded and then we will deny you her body all these absolutes she dies beheaded
denied the body right but then later it states if you try to outsmart us you stand a 99
chance of killing your daughter right if you follow our instructions you stand a 100 chance of getting your
daughter back again an absolute but then that 99 percent I I that's what's been keeping me up at
night why would the author leave that one percentage chance that the Ramses could foil the plan and
and I think that's because the author really wanted them to believe that the author was in control
and that if they followed their Instructions Not only would would they get their daughter back but at the very
least if they didn't contact the police there was still one percent chance that the Ramses could outsmart
the attacker I think what occurred really man was the the note was constructed to buy more
time who knows how long this individual intended to keep right right but he believed the note was
it was authentic in a sense that the author wanted the Ramses to believe it but it happened before he actually
yes because if he killed JonBenet he would have never wrote the note to begin with right the note gets a ransom note
gets the FBI involved which I think is another thing which not everybody knows that but it's like if the family was
trying to cover up a murder and you then put a ransom note into play now you have the FBI involved
and I wish the FBI was involved from the beginning because if they would have been I think
this case would be solved by now yeah if they wouldn't have located her body in the basement that quickly if that would
have gone 24 hours the FBI would have taken over this case in this investigation regardless of finding her
body later the interesting thing here though Captain I think where this whole thing gets messy it's a complicated case
because there are all these things that you have to explain and you have to explain them and they're not easily
explained away because there are things that point to the letter being constructed not only in
the home but by maybe somebody that lived there nothing is easily explained away because
the crime didn't go and it wasn't carried out in the manner that it was intended to
had he been able to remove her from the home right alive I wanna that's how my theory
goes this would have looked and taken on a whole different appearance it would have
taken on a whole different investigation something happened where he realized or
determined in the moment that he couldn't get her out of the house I don't know what that is
but whatever it is I'm backing up that the motivating factor for this abduction which I believe is what was the
intention here with sexual assault was because this individual had already taken the risk to
get what they wanted and when they could not get her out of the house they assaulted her inside the home
struck her over the head to make sure that she was dead and then left or possibly got spooked
and I but I believe that this person knew the house well they knew that by if you can get her down to the basement
you're now putting two floors between you and her and her parents now do you think this case is solvable I
was actually listening to somebody on the way here to the garage that was you know an expert
in my opinion a very good expert that was saying they believe the case is still has the potential to be solved based off
of forensic evidence personally I don't feel very good about this case ever being solved and the
problem with that is that's without that's with the exception of having a somebody come forward saying
I did this this is how I did it and then they can pull some evidence together and
go yep we can back up this individual story because of this this and this right where I think this case lends
itself to be unsolvable let's say is in a court of law if you make an arrest and somebody isn't willing to confess to
the murder I think it's going to be very difficult to convict based off of public
opinion you could move this case you know some cases they do a change of venue because the either the perpetrator
doesn't stand a chance or there's problems with the case whatever right you can move this case to Mars and it's
it's still a mess it's still a convoluted mess there are people out there that feel so strongly about their
opinion and that's why that's why part of me only is willing to go 51 in on this Intruder theory on my thoughts on
the case because I understand why so many people are are firm in their beliefs and in their
opinions of this case because just like you pointed out earlier you watch CBS and you go yep
I think they nailed it now I know what to believe right you watch the a e thing same thing but it's a it's a different
answer it's a different response you read Steve Thomas's book you absolutely believe Patsy did it
you know it's really comes from whoever you get your information from and I actually don't believe that anybody is
out there trying to skew this in any way that's malicious or that's trying to deceive the audience right I think that
there there is evidence that you could argue either way and if you choose to argue it all one way
it makes a good case for whatever your opinion or your theory is on the case well and Henry Lee said that he didn't
he say that he believes that this is not just a DNA solvable case well I believe what his
statement was that he believes that the DNA is of no value to eliminate somebody
as a suspect or to convict them in a court of law well so one I think they need to
try to come to some kind of understanding and some conclusion with the DNA to figure out
is it a single male is there a mixture I know that they were talking about doing
tests back in 2016 and 2017 I have not I could not find any new results of those
because if we do know because what they could do is they could test that mixture
with female DNA and if they have any trace of female DNA that pops in then they would more likely
it's a mixture and now we gotta go back to the drawing boards but I think they need to figure that out
for one but all all accounts state that it's male DNA it was taken from a um right but it's not clear if it's
two or three or just one yeah that I don't know I do know that it was taken from a um a dual blood sample if you
want to call it that I don't know that's the best way to describe it right but what that tells me is that they're
taking this fluid and they're finding DNA in the fluid and if they're saying that it's
coming from a dual sample then they've already been able to identify what that other where that other sample is coming
from right meaning it came the most obvious answer is the other DNA comes from JonBenet right and
so if they're able to make that conclusion then I don't think they can rule out 100 that
it's not uh you know more than one DNA but it sounds to me what they are able to
conclude is what they're looking at they believe 100 to be male unknown male or unidentified male DNA
I think what Lee what Henry Henry Lee and several other experts are trying to point out regarding this DNA itself is
that the type of DNA it is is not it's not indicative of anything that that may have occurred during the
commission of any of these crimes regardless of of what crimes you believe took place
this DNA does not have to be there because of a sexual assault this DNA does not have to be there because of a
murder what they're saying is the problem with the DNA ultimately right now is that they don't know where it
came from and they don't know how long it was there right meaning there's a chance
it worked its way there after the fact after she was already killed after the perpetrator fled or after John and Patsy
started covering up the crime right that there's a chance that that DNA has nothing to do with the murder of this
child and that is the problem and until they can figure out you might be able to
clear that up if you can figure out where it came from if there it would be a way for you to prove that it's
impossible for it to end up on the body after the fact that it could have only ended up on her during the commission of
these crimes right but if I'm talking with John Ramsey and and John says to me I want to hire you for this case I'd say
John the first thing we need to do is look at this DNA and we need to come to some consensus with multiple experts I'd
also want to pull in some investigators that that believe that it was the family
I'd want to pull them in and to have them help with the investigation because they would be our
checks and balances I also think they need to figure out the stun gun Theory I don't know if they can
still do it but I know at the time they were would have been able to uh dig her up and do some tests to figure out if
these were train tracks marks or possibly a stone gun or neither or right and I think that's important I also think
this digital molestation that's what I'm going to call it that possibly happened
on the 22nd or 23rd or the and then then happened the the day of the murder now I say the day of the murder because
that I believe was in the report and I'm going to throw out this Theory and I think there's some investigation
that should be done this is not this is finger molestation they believe a finger was inside her now
you can you can explain in a way in multiple different you know with the wiping aggressive wiping and different things
but most people believe this is some form of molestation I would also argue you have children
playing on the 23rd not always supervised and then the same thing happens on the 25th
was there is there a kid involved and here I'll just put it out there if is it possible a kid did this and it
wasn't meaning harm by it it was just a kid not knowing any better is that making any sense at all it
certainly makes some sense to me but I think that the evidence is showing that to me it shows that
the digital manipulation right is what they they term it occurred and it probably occurred near
at or near the time of her death which I would lean that way I'm just saying is is this a uh something that we can again
it's just like with the train track marks or the stun gun marks I think it starts narrowing things down so if we
can come to a consensus of that this there was some kind of I'm going to call it
digital molestation because it's molestation is this happening at the time of her
death rowing that out I also think because there's too many coincidences when you
look at Santa bill there's too many odd things his daughter was kidnapped 22 years before on the
date it's an unsolved kidnapping technically yes they find JonBenet Ramsey in her
house but there's a ransom note so to me it's technically a kidnapping it's an unsolved kidnapping
and this guy like I said I I looked as much as I could into this bear that was found and
you can look at the crime scene photos and see this bear on the bed I want to know if it really came from
that pageant if they can prove that but here's what we do know Senate bill was hired by multiple people
and worked multiple locations we have tons of evidence out there and here's something that
the public could actually look for if your child had any picture with saying a bill
is there a bear that matches this description I think if it does that's enough of a reason for us to go hey
this this guy needs to be looked into further the other thing I would want to know is in your Santa Claus outfit
most Santa Clauses wear black boots I would like to see anybody that has a picture with Sanibel what boots are
what boots is um is he wearing at the time and is it possible that their high tech which
would be the marks that were found the shoe shoe prints that were found in the basement
so I think those are things that people can look into now and get us closer to some answers it was
determined that there were more than 100 burglaries in the Ramsey's neighborhood
in the months before jonbenet's murder there were 38 registered sex offenders living within a two-mile radius of the
Ramsay's home [Music] foreign if you can't get enough of the True Crime garage make sure you check us
out on Stitcher you can find all of our old episodes and you can find our other show off the Record hey crispy Colonel
what's that Merry Christmas you filthy animal Merry Christmas to everyone out there
thank you for joining us in the garage all year long we hope to see you back here next year Merry Christmas yeah
Merry Christmas and happy New Year cheers to you Captain cheers to all of the True Crime garage Army until next
year be good be kind and don't litter thank you [Music]

JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family

Episode 6 of 6

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

On December 26th 1996, 6-year old JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in the basement of her home in Boulder, Colorado. Her case remains unsolved. Beer of the Week - Christmas Ale by Great Lakes Brewing Co. Garage Grade - 5 out of 5 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

John Mark Carr's confession and DNA evidence complicate the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, raising questions about suspects and investigation failures.

Key points

Little Miss Colorado. The tragic story of JonBenet Ramsey, a six-year-old murder victim, unfolds.
John Mark Carr's Confession. In a shocking twist, Carr confessed to JonBenet's murder but later recanted.
DNA Evidence Clears the Ramsays. DNA found at the crime scene did not match John Mark Carr, leading to dropped charges.
The Ramsey Family's Dilemma. John Ramsey discusses the implications of being a suspect in his daughter's murder.
The Investigation's Complexity. The conflicting opinions of investigators highlight the case's complexity.
The Cover-Up Theory. Exploration of the cover-up theory surrounding JonBenet's murder.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Her death was unintentional; it was an accident.

John Mark Carr's controversial statement about JonBenet's death.

3:30WatchNov 18, 2022

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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