Murder in Alliance /// Part 2 /// 521 | Forensic Files

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you're nasty that is enough of the business all right everybody gather out grab a chair grab a
beer let's talk some true crime 15th of 1999 Wednesday it's 1309 hours my name is detective Bud Sampson we're
in the Ravenna Police Department interview room along with me is detective William mucklow and detective
John Leach of the Alliance Police Department also in the room is Joseph Eisenberg
[Music] this morning [Music] he took advantage of me and were you having some hard time
I lost everything anymore where was her body found the living room so when you walk up the stairs from the
entry room she's right there at the top of the stairs so if everything is as it should
be we have a baby up at the next floor up in her room we have two of the children locked in
their rooms for the night and then we have Vinnie who may have been in a crib or in a sleeping situation or may have
been roaming the house when whoever came and we don't have any sign of forced entry
so either this person had access to the home or the door was unlocked or Yvonne knew the individual and invited them in
the way that things were found inside the residence almost would give the appearance that someone was there with
her and things were going smoothly up into the point of of her murder yeah is it the dining room table or one of
the tables almost has the appearance that people may have been sitting there discussing something or sharing
cigarettes yeah yeah and then we have we have the this is a a very interesting angle of this case too is that the
killer either knew or felt comfortable enough that either a none of the children would be
able to identify them or B none of the children saw what they did and left all the children unharmed
yeah and actually not only were they unharmed but the the other thinking is that
Vinnie always slept in his diaper and then he was fully dressed when he was found he was not covered in blood you
know assuming if he was crawling around and found his mom he'd be covered in blood he was fully dressed which he
cannot do himself again he has a severe disability he could not dress himself so
the thinking has always been that somebody took care of and dressed Vinnie so not only did they not harm the
children but took care of one of the children which is yes A possibility one and but two could just be happenstance
that for whatever reason he was dressed still dressed from from the night he could have been and just never made it
to her body to get you know blood I mean but that's the thing too like there was
you know I stress a lot in this season the crime scene and how how brutal it is and that is a hundred percent not for
any kind of shock value it is because the crime scene is so important to who did this I mean when you look at it it
is so gruesome and bloody and there is overkill I mean the TV was thrown on top of her um a dresser and a TV were thrown
on top of her after this person decapitated her anyone who's looked at it has said well this wasn't a hit this
looks personal this is so Overkill environment yeah so that's why you know I talk a lot about the crime scene
because it looks so personal so it's and then when you think about that if you think okay this is
someone who knew her they were angry at her maybe it was a father of one of the kids maybe this person did know Vinnie
really well so a lot of her immediate family were looked into and surprised a lot of them had reason to kill her her
dad was allegedly sexually abusing her and her sisters for years and she thought that he was doing it to
her kids too you know her mother-in-law hated her because she was taking the welfare checks from Vinnie and the
Mother-in-law was taking care of her so when you look at this crime scene it does not look like someone was hired to
kill her it looks like somebody who knew her did this and took care of Vinnie on
their way out well they even suspected David's girlfriend for a while right because yes because you have this
situation where you're dating this guy now he's having a baby with his X is kind of an odd situation yes and we get
into Amy in in the coming episodes but you know Amy's interesting because her and Yvonne hated each other obviously
they're both you know in love with the same guy and there's kids involved but you know the thing has always been is
Amy would actually be the last person that was able to get into Yvonne's house because if Yvonne even saw Amy at her
doorstep everyone who knew Yvonne was like oh no she would have beat the [ __ ] out of Amy
immediately she wasn't getting in the house so it's just really interesting Amy of
course had a motive but would she even be able to get in the house and then we go back to this whole we find out she's
a sex worker that could be why there's a lock on the door to lock the kids in so they don't
walk out on something right um so did she have one of her Johns over that night there's just so many people
and it's yes Joe sounds convincing and yes this could be what happened but then when I look at the crime scene I'm I
just again go no no way this was Joe this was someone she was sleeping with or somebody that she already has a baby
with it wasn't Joe hired as a hit it's it's very confusing well there have been people that have said that the way that
they found the crime scene as you said the TV thrown on top of her there what there was a bookshelf overturned as well
it was there was a TV on top of a dresser so the dresser and the TV were on top of her okay so somebody attempted
to probably in one foul swoop I imagine try to throw both of those items tip them over on top of her at the same time
and some have speculated look that might be somebody who's trying to make it the
crime scene have the appearance of a struggle well to me I look at that and say no this is somebody that wanted to
destroy this woman that slitting her throat was not good enough watching her expire in just a matter of seconds on
the floor there was not good enough they had to take it a step further and throw
these heavy items onto her body as it lie there lifeless already and you know we we have a certain
a certain understanding of and rightfully so descriptive way of hate crime but one thing that gets lost
sometimes in these murder cases is the individual that kills the victim nine times out of ten hates the victim
hates the victim to the point of Destruction for whatever reason something happened they feel wronged
they feel challenged or any number of scenarios can play out but in that moment In the Heat of the Moment
that individual hates the victim so much so that they want to kill them they want
to destroy them and that's what I see when we're talking about this crime scene here that it was somebody was in
such rage that they they took this extra step it was unnecessary to kill you know because she's already
dead it was unnecessary to do any of these these further actions before leaving the home let's stay on
eyewitnesses because there was wasn't there another possible eyewitness we talked about the children we talked
about the other eyewitness but there was another eyewitness that saw a man and the description sounds somewhat similar
to to the to the other one I'm just a little confused on on what time and where this falls into the the
timeline of the 31st and the first yeah so this this guy very similar he was another
neighborhood guy who again just went to the police and said hey look I think I saw this might be helpful it was
actually the night of the murder he said around Twilight he was walking his dog so who the hell knows what Twilight
means he saw a man trying to get into the house and that's really all we know we know that the police also took him to
a kind of relaxation therapy that they also took George to to try and get him to remember what they saw George said it
seemed more like an interrogation he kind of seemed like he was hooked up to a lie detector test so they did the same
thing with this witness and nothing came of it um again this was not given to the
defense in in Discovery so this was another Brady violation what we do know about that night is
she did have quite a few visitors I mean her house was not this home that no one
went to this quiet mom with you know kids it was really a high trafficked home you
know her dad was there that day we don't know where he was that evening uh we do
know he he puts himself there that day we know that around 5 30 her neighbor was there he was someone who was seen
with her he said he went on a bike ride afterwards um you can't really account for that so
that's already two people we know were at her house that day that you know we don't know where they went afterwards at
the time of the murder according to Joe he was there that evening so was this guy one of them was it a different guy
that the neighbor saw trying to get into the home around Twilight it just raises
so many questions yeah but the eyewitnesses that are not connected to the family they're just neighbors or
passer buyers they're all putting these individuals well below six foot yeah so the yes so both um George Hale and this
other man two separate Witnesses two neighbors don't know anybody involved in this case say that the guy trying to get
into the home or the guy leaving the home was about five eight dark hair yeah I mean that wouldn't be Joe either way
assuming that you know that what they saw actually happened so George Hale was on the stand for the
post-conviction hearing when they went back to court for the Brady violation for George Hale
and on his cross is when he kind of came across as a weak witness I I personally
don't think George Hale is the cross-examination can always Shake people and basically on the cross the
prosecution got him to say he just didn't know if the man was leaving her house or if he was just he he couldn't
for sure say if he was leaving the house or not I believe George I've I've seen his interviews with you know reputable
investigative reporters who have looked into this case I his story has always been the same and I I do think he saw
somebody leaving the house that morning whether it was the murderer whether it was someone who had some kind of
appointment with her that morning and stumbled in and found her dead body and was like oh crap
um but I do believe George saw somebody leaving that house after she was dead and Twilight typically is I I think
everybody has a little bit of a different definition for what Twilight is it's one of those things that you
hate to hear a witness say because it could be mean different things to different people but I always think of
it as like the time of when I can no longer see the sun in the sky but there's still it's still light out so
around sunset or or slightly just after which is interesting because that plays to the the 7 P.M I always thought it was
a teenage vampire movie the time frame at the at the earlier part of that time frame but Team Edward how else are they
coming up with that 7 PM is it is it because there is somebody that says they spoke to Yvonne what at five or six
o'clock that night so that was the neighbor that was seen with her at 5 30 yeah okay yeah and then but he's a bit
wasn't he a bit of a creep himself yes um he's definitely an odd guy we talked to
him in the podcast but you know we don't really we don't we do not think he was involved um again this looks like
Overkill I mean he's a tiny little guy he's weird I just don't see we just didn't get that from him what is his
motive what would he be so pissed off about yes maybe he was a peeper but other than that I mean the guy has no
record he just seems like he still lives in the same house I mean if you murdered
this girl you would think he'd probably leave I mean there was just many reasons
to make us think like you know he probably wasn't involved and I'm with you I don't think he lines up and I find
it interesting that he speaks with you guys all these years later it doesn't seem like he's dodging anything here
hasn't moved away but I will throw this out there when we go into motive and things of that nature is I have seen in
more than one case where we have an individual that is very much like this that did commit the crime
and what where I'm going with this Maggie is that this guy would see men in and out of Yvonne's home all hours of
the day and then he's over there gets inside she's invited him in she rejects him and
then his mind goes to she doesn't say no to anybody else why is she saying no to me what is wrong
with what is wrong with me and then it then he turns on her so I've seen that in some cases I'm not saying that's the
situation here we know that Yvonne could be described as promiscuous I'm not saying that there were men coming in and
out of her house at all hours of the day although it seems like that may have been the situation yeah yeah exactly and
you know we think about that too with Joe maybe that Joe did do this and he also got pissed that she rejected him
and he just kind of lost it the interesting thing and I'm curious to hear what you guys think is you know
I guess we could put Jim aside the neighbor but I want to talk about jokes I don't
know as much about Jim I just know he doesn't have a record I mean everything we know about Joe is he is this kind
person yes he's troubled but it never seemed to manifest in a violent deviant way
um Joe's friend said he didn't even really do drugs I mean he smoked weed and drank
um so you know he's this kind nice kid would he suddenly just snap and become this rageful killer when he had nothing
like that in his past I'm just curious to hear your thoughts well it has a lot of trauma in his past
so to me that would give him the capability the thing I can't get over with with Joe
is um a couple things one the confession before he talks to police because he's basically telling people I
did this before he even talked with police yeah um allegedly did I put I put that in the
podcast I couldn't remember well maybe that's something that we need to to address here if if you're able to is
what would be the motivation of this Miss Moore and uh Mr Campbell for their statements that we spoke with
Joe Wilkes on the day of the murder and and he says I'm I'm here to you know I've been hired to
kill someone for for whoever but what would be their motivation for their statement because the
captain's absolutely right that's that's how they find Joe Wilkes and that's something that if if he did tell them
that it's very difficult for anybody to go he told somebody that and then that night someone he knew was murdered
um I'm sorry but it gets very difficult to to get past that one it is not so much for David not so much for David
Thorne because again there are a million different scenarios that we could have Joe Wilkes as the actual murderer here
in David Thorne didn't have anything to do with it and he just had the worst luck in the world that he interacted
with this guy and was friends with this guy before and after absolutely I mean we we think about this all the time so
Rose and Chris are interesting so I mentioned you know we rack our brains every day trying to think about what
would their motive be we don't know one of our hypotheses is you know Chris did get a lot of trouble with the law he was
actually arrested like a day or two after he told police about this you know we've we've speculated he could have
been an informant they just needed to lean on him for this and Rose was his girlfriend and he just told her to shut
up and just stick to the story and whatever you know it could have been any sort of
combination of that I I don't know what their motive would have been I don't know if they lied what I do know is that
their stories are odd they're they change a lot between no it was definitely not a pocket knife and then
by trial it was a pocket knife I find that something really difficult to get around how do you mistake an eight inch
blade and then suddenly a pop it's a pocket knife you know she specifically mentioned a sheath
I think that's weird his clothing changed colors they say he was in a white Nike tracksuit at the mall
um the pants that he found were black that doesn't bother me as much you know people can mistake colors all of our
memories are not perfect but you know there are just weird things about them in Joe's confession
he never mentioned seeing them he says I was at the mall and blah blah blah they
specifically asked did you tell anybody about this so it's weird it's it's just weird it's
one of those Mysteries that I don't know if we'll ever have answers to what happened at that at the mall and if they
lied or why they lied if they did well when they they come forward it's three months later so it's it's easy to go
okay maybe they didn't remember what color pants the guy was wearing it's it is weird that that Joe isn't a
little more upfront about having talked to somebody that night when he seems to be giving the police everything else
that they're asking for during the course of that confession the one thing though that I find
interesting is do you see is there a road that investigators could take that somehow leads them to Joe Wilkes
through David Thorne and then now three months later we have to we can't say oh we we found Joe
Wilkes by this Avenue we need to create an Avenue that led us to Joe Wilkes because what the jury is going to see in
this case if David would have had a good defense team it would have it should have been
pointed out that look for three months these guys had nothing and they tried to build a case against David Thorne and
they couldn't so you as jurors have to ask yourself why if David is so damn guilty here why did they have nothing
for three months and so now we have this I mean and here's where I'm going with this man I
wonder phone records Joe Wilkes does he use his name when he checks into the hotel that night
you know there are ways that could lead you to Joe Wilkes as an investigator that that later you can go back and say
you know what Chris Campbell you're not such a good guy why don't you help us out and we'll help you out a little bit
at the same time because we need somebody to tell us about this Joseph Wilkes guy exactly oh and that that
girlfriend of yours that uh can you think you can get her to go along with your statement well that's the thing too
they knew that they were at the mall that night and and it's just so interesting because Joe
has never denied seeing them but he has said it was just a casual conversation you know it wasn't something that stuck
out to him when he's being interrogated by the police and telling them every accounting of his day
so it's just I and I'm with you on that maybe that's exactly what it was that's why you know we have
really been looking into was Chris an informant of some kind did he have relations with the police could they
have leaned on him it's all possible there's so many possibilities in this case yeah the other thing that bothers
me is the child when he says that he saw Jeremy or or what was the other name Jimmy or Jimmy it sounded like he gave
two or three yeah there was another name yeah they were all J names right which goes along but it wasn't Joe yeah but it
goes along with Joseph where maybe he just can't remember I know it started with a J so it's Jeremy
or you know or whatever it is so I think that has always bothered me and that's very interesting Captain because we know
by Joe's own statements that he had seen he had been to Yvonne's at least once maybe twice is that right Maggie no more
than maybe two times according to him how many times if we include the murder yeah it's one of those kind of murky
murky areas so Captain might be hitting on something here with your mom this child may be trying his best to help but
because he's only met this guy once or twice or you know maybe he's having trouble placing the
name and he's getting close with the J names and uh that's a very interesting thing I
absolutely agree with you guys I don't think we can really you know just brush aside what Vinnie said and I think you
know every one of these things on its face is not you know major but when you put them all together it's
it's really um confusing I'd say well I have a question what do you think I have a
question for you Joe has recanted his confession before is that is that when he's recanting the
confession is he's saying I I wasn't there I didn't murder anybody no he's always put him there himself
there he says he didn't do it he says he he walked in and she was already dead and he panicked and left
[Music] [Music] so if he wasn't there with the purpose of being paid to commit a homicide why
in those statements is he there he at all one statement he went to invite her to a hotel party
in one statement that's why he's at the hotel yes in another statement he's there to have sex with her again she
could have rejected him and he flies into a rage does something that he almost immediately regrets and now lucky
him see that's one thing the other issue that I have with getting away from the possibility of Joe Wilkes as the actual
murder because you know you said well he didn't have much of a record or didn't have a record and he didn't do drugs yet
by his own admission in in that confession regardless of how they got to that statement it is still his sworn
statement at the time he says I did it I did some drugs that night uh before going over there to kill her and then
later his own words again to save my own ass I said you know I had to tell them that David Thorne hired me and so it's
like is this guy smart enough and you said he's no dummy is he smart enough to be creating ways to save his own butt I
think so I was I was so high on these drugs when I killed her I didn't know what I was doing I was out of my mind
man oh and uh if that doesn't work and I need somebody else to to save my butt I
can blame some of this on David Thorne and maybe maybe I called him the next day for for no reason other than because
we were friends and and I know that maybe they might be able to find he called David to confess called him to
confess there's any number of things and we we see if in fact all the things that
everybody says about David Thorne and Joe Wilkes relationship is true other than this murder part given Joe's
background and how he was raised and the horrible environments that he was raised
in and then David being a little older it looks like Dave David kind of takes him under his his wing he you know we
know David's a car guy he gives him some kind of junk car that that somebody like
David could fix up and that he would he would actually have a vehicle so he could get to and from a job and David
says you know like look I'm not doing I didn't do favors for this kid because because I hired him to kill my
ex-girlfriend I did favors for the kid because one I wanted to help him out but two I would help him out and it would
create inconveniences for me now now this guy's always reaching out to me can you drive me here can you drive me to my
I'm going to lose my job if somebody doesn't take me there and you know I can get this kid a vehicle for a few hundred
bucks and it helps him out but ultimately helps me out as well yeah absolutely I I think you know there is
there's so many possibilities and we haven't even gone into you know the fact that the cops the cops didn't at the
beginning think David actually had anything to do with this by their own admission they went to the psychic I
mean and that that is the biggest bombshell of this whole case is what the police say to the psychic well
let's let's Circle back to that Maggie before we get too far away from something else that I'm very intrigued
on I I always love when we cover cases I I want to hear the suspects I want a a roll call of the suspects and let's
start with the J suspects because we were talking about Vinnie trying to help out saying I saw a Jimmy or a Jeremy or
somebody with that sounding name hurt my mom pushed my mom interestingly enough there is a Jeremy in this case and
there's a Jimmy in this case who is the Jeremy and how is he tied to our victim yeah so Jeremy is a family friend it's
um Eric who's Yvonne's Boyfriend Baby Daddy it's his mother's boyfriend okay so Jeremy you know knew Vinnie very well
actually because Vinnie was living with him and Linda Vinnie was not in Yvonne's
custody she pretty much gave Vinnie up at Birth because he was disabled she couldn't really take care of him and she
gave him to her her boyfriend's parents to take care of so Vinnie was raised by Jeremy and Linda for the most part so he
would know Jeremy if he saw Jeremy and one of the names of Jeremy if the if there was a motive for Jeremy to be
involved or have done this it would be simply all tied to the boy Vinnie they're practically raising Vinnie the
majority of the time not practically they are raising him the majority of the time they're his main caregivers as it
sounds to me yet Yvonne is getting the disability checks from the state and she's using them to fund her
lifestyle or raise her other children exactly well again I think the whole idea of you know if she's having if she
is a sex worker and and having guys coming in out of house that creates a motive for almost any male that's in her
life like you said they come on to her or they think well she's uh saying yes to all these guys
she'll say yes to me and if she doesn't there's a lot of guys that would go into
a rage and then the there's also a gym or a Jimmy in this right and that's the neighbor that we talked about Jim is the
neighbor who also knew the kids I don't know how well they knew him I mean According to Jim you know him and Yvonne
would just hang out outside in the yard sometimes and the kids would run around his yard because their yards connected
there was no fence between them so it seems like he knew the kids but certainly not on the level that Jeremy
did and if he were in fact the guilty party it would fall into what the captain was just talking about there
where this would be he had some kind of infatuation or obsession with with this I mean she was a very beautiful young
woman and again if you have a scenario where he thought they were friendly and all of
a sudden she rejects him or calls him a name or finds him in an adequate or anything you have those
possibilities one person that I want to hit on before we get into the amazing wonderful Alliance Police Department and
how fine and fantastic of a job they just continue to do I want to talk about somebody that if in fact the things that
I've heard about this individual on your podcast make him probably the most disgusting and Despicable individual
that's referenced so far I I understand you have some episodes to get to but Sherman let's talk about Sherman because
I have German if I'm looking at this case from a clean slate that's the guy that I want to talk to the most and the
people around him are the ones that I I want to ask about Sherman the most off the bat I've called him the number that
I have for him isn't working I've reached out to the kids to ask them you know for a number I have tried to reach
him and I can't so um Sherman you know again they're Jehovahs and they live a very quiet life but we have heard
from her friends a lot of horror stories about the abuse that he put her and you
know very recently we heard from another close friend and her sisters we believe
we're we're also maybe abused by him sexually and we do know that Yvonne thought that it was possible he
was doing this to her kids and she actually set up a video camera in her house with tapes Eric's actual
dad not Jeremy Eric's dad Fred helped her set up videotapes to try and catch Sherman in the ACT
um this was Fred's one of Fred's statements before he passed away so we have not been able to like a nanny cam
yeah but of course it was you know 1999 so it's like a giant camera that you could see in some of the crime scene
photos on top of her fridge and those tapes were collected and and Fred had asked for the tapes back and he never
got them so we don't know what's on those tapes they don't seem to exist anymore but um yeah you know Sherman to
me too like you know what if Yvonne was pregnant with his kid what if one of these kids is Sherman's kid that that
has certainly crossed our minds that could be the reason why the one kid has certain disabilities and I mean anything
is possible um you know the more we've talked to people who knew her the more it seems like the abuse was
pretty severe it seems like you know even their mother probably knew in a lot of these cases they know and there's
nothing they can do or you know they're also abused you know again these are all
allegations I'm not saying Sherman did this this is just what we have heard from multiple people
um and we've thought about him as a suspect and the thing that we just keep coming back to is I don't think that he
would have wanted this attention they really seemed to recoil from it and not necessarily in a way of like we did this
it seems like they really just do not want this attention at all they have never spoken to Media they've never been
a part of it they you know kind of wrapped it up and it was quiet and again that could be because he knows some
dirty things are going to lead back to him or again because they're quiet people
and he just wouldn't murder his daughter because he doesn't want all this attention is something we've really
thought about I don't care who you are nobody wants to be known as in you know in incest driven sexual predator and
um so one thing that we see here in this case is the potential of a possible cover-up
and the reason why I bring him up and you know there's another cover-up possibility that we're going to quickly
get into and move along to here but with Sherman in relation to him if there were to be another type of
cover-up if she was killed you know that's one of the leading motivations for murder in anywhere is to cover up
previous crimes and if in fact Sherman is guilty of the rumors that you have heard then it seems to me like that
would be something that he may want to cover up maybe he went there that night to try to reason with her or threaten
her to keep her quiet or to collect those tapes maybe she threatened him that's one thing that I think we haven't
really touched on much is Yvonne's personality she didn't seem to me to be much of a uh take a lot of [ __ ] kind of
person you know she actually she was not um she was feisty would be a very polite
and kind way of of describing her yeah so so we have found out you know through our reporting that Yvonne was a scammer
in a sense she would Shake people down so the idea that you know she was threatening her dad to expose him is
very plausible maybe she did catch something on that camera and he went over again he puts himself there that
day I have no idea where he was that night of course we don't have any recorded interviews with him from the
police so that's really helpful when trying to go back to this investigation there's not a single interview with him
so we don't really know where he was that night what he was doing at all and one thing that doesn't sit well with me
about Sherman and it's coming from law enforcement's own mouth when they went to talk with
her mother and they say even now she's a shell of an individual and so if you happen to hear you know your husband say
well that's it she's dead to me and then you end up finding her dead the next day
there's going to be doubt in your mind so you know it's one thing to find your your dead child but then if you know on
top of that that your husband's responsible for it that puts you in a very scary situation
yeah I think Tanya was in a scary situation before the murder too I think that was just a dark household you know
the abuse that she endured if it is true would certainly explain why you know she
was allegedly so promiscuous and having children at 16 a lot of it you know makes makes sense
um she was sexually traumatized and you know that that's that's often what happens but yeah so you know there's and
I know this is what you want to talk about you know there's no interview with Sherman because the police did a really
not good job with this investigation so yeah we could talk about that well yeah and real quick before we move on in
regards to the tapes if they existed or or what was on them we don't know as you
said they we can't find them uh today and one thing with those those tapes and Yvonne's personality and attitude and
being a possible victim to Sherman or maybe her her kids are victimized by this guy
there doesn't necessarily have to be anything incriminating on those tapes for him to want those tapes to go away
bad enough to potentially do something like this it could just simply be the threat of those tapes of her saying you
know I got a video camera running in here all the time you know I've been taping you while you're over here that
doesn't necessarily have to mean that that she caught anything on camera just that it was happening and he perceived
the threat of being outed because of that camera now just so we don't dance around the
subject anymore why don't we talk about the Alliance PD as it were 1999 and I understand that they've made a lot
of effort to clean things up there since then it but it was not the most well-run
oiled machine back then as we would want it to be as Citizens and taxpayers and a
lot of that comes out in those tapes when we have detectives talking with the psychic and thank you Maggie for
including that in the series because that psychic woman just amazing she she's looking at these
detectives and going why haven't you guys looked into this why is Yvonne hanging out with so many cops why is she
friends with so many cops why are there so many married officers Married with Children officers
that seem to be friendly with her some have some kind of relationship with her yeah
these cops Michael and Samson never thought that these tapes would see or hear the light of day ever ever ever
ever this was one of the Brady violations at trial this was never presented it was hidden they got it in
the post-conviction and the the tapes actually I got the attorneys never had the tapes that I know of they have the
transcripts so this is the first time anyone's hearing the tapes and it's just it's like you said the psychic I mean
it's just jaw dropping at what they are telling the psychic about their own department and people that they had
heard officers were sleeping with her you know for money um and she asked if they ever looked
into any of these people and they're like no did you look into you know the dad no did you look into Jeremy well I
guess we should do that they honed in on David and it seems like they really we don't
have a formal interview with Jeremy we don't have a formal interview with Jim we don't have formal interviews with any
of these officers that were allegedly sleeping with her and half of these we don't even have interviews with so if
they spoke to them where is that why would you not speak to her father that you tell this psychic was abusing her
um it's just mind-blowing that the entire case File is David and then Joe and you know so the
department at the time um I do a whole episode on this because it's you know I could do five episodes
on it um in 1998 the chief chief black and eight officers were fired for severe corruption for stealing guns drugs and
money from the evidence room and your guess is as good as mine is where the guns drugs and money were going when
they were stealing it so you know at the time of her murder the department is in
chaos there are still folks that are you know seriously corrupt who just were not
caught and fired it was just it was it was incredible what was happening at the time in the department and then this
young mother is murdered and the investigation was so poor it will just blow your mind I mean and to simplify it
almost seems like law enforcement went okay well it's either Eric or it's David and Eric's in jail so it
has to be David oh wait David was at this uh wrestling class and there's he has three
countries away and he has solid Alibis not just one person multiple people and then they just kind of stop
the investigation for three months that's how the exactly that's how the case files are there's nothing from May
there's nothing from June all of a sudden we have Joe Wilkes in in July I mean I just think it's really
bizarre what were you doing in that time well and for those not familiar with the
case we should point out here that David Thorne is at this martial arts class this was routine this is a once a week
thing that had gone on for weeks prior to this this was not him going out of his way to be several counties away
conveniently at the time of the murder these guys it doesn't seem like they were starting a murder investigation it
seems to me like they were starting from scratch because they just didn't know what to do or how to conduct this type
of investigation not with any kind of efficiency or thoroughness that's going to seal a conviction you hear the
psychic when the detectives give her information she's looking at them and you you can almost you can hear it in
the tone of her voice when she's throwing questions back at them she's like you guys didn't look at that you
guys didn't look at this you didn't you you can tell she wants to look at these two guys and go is this your first day
on the job did you did you just get deputized this morning because uh all these things that are obvious to a
psychic woman didn't appear to be obvious to these detectives or they turned their heads away from it and did
not want to look in those directions I think I think that's you know we talk about this too is
if someone else killed her the police certainly had motive to cover it up because of whatever was going on with
them they just wanted to brush it under the rug and none of you know none of their sex with her or even maybe drug
connections I mean the police tell the psychic they found weed at the crime scene marijuana there is no marijuana
and evidence where is that marijuana that you allegedly found at this crime scene so whatever happened in this
murder I think the police definitely wanted to brush it under the rug very quickly
um for their own sake well that's a good point too because one of the things I wondered is we have
this girl dead you know that there's officers that are having some kind of sexual relationship with her at that
point you either have to turn this investigation over to somebody else or you have to figure out which officers
are having a relationship make sure they have nothing to do with the case and then when you say oh well they found
weed and it goes missing well probably because she got that weed from a police officer or there's some connection from
that weed well again and that's I mean they were literally stealing guns drugs and money from the evidence room and
like I said it's anyone's guess where that was going there's missing marijuana from her house I mean you put the pieces
together it just is really shady it sounds to me like there's a portion of their evidence room back in the 90s that
was set items that are set aside for an officers only barbecue that was probably
happening on the reg you know oh we got some weed and cocaine for free oh you like collecting guns here you go buddy
you know let's get together officers and wives only and let's have a big blowout
sounds like to me yeah yeah regardless of where it came from or how she got it but the the thing here too and I hate
the term police cover-up because I think it's way overused and that takes away from the severe Rarity of the situation
when you use a term way too much and use it when it's not necessary in most cases
they go oh this cop knew the victim so clearly the whole Department's covering it up nay nine times out of ten what
I've seen in these investigations they don't mind busting and popping one of their own they want to get the guilty
party here this situation is unique because if what was going on that's been speculated if if any of that is true
they're not covering for the guy that actually killed her because of to to save his butt they're covering for the
whole departments they were doing committing yeah they were committing you know breaking the law time and time
again themselves and so they're covering their own asses by covering for one of their own if in fact what we've heard
has been true no exactly and that's the thing it's so messy could that guy that have been seen that morning been a cop
like Georgetown said sure and he was just you know cleaning up some stuff because he was like oh
[ __ ] if there is drugs and stuff in here we ought to get rid of it because it's
coming back to us you know it's like all everything is possible I think what I see here look there again there's no
smoking gun that tells me that David is 100 innocent I strongly question the investigation I even more so question
Joseph Wilkes I do see plenty of scenarios where Joe could be guilty and David just is Collateral Damage I also
see scenarios where we have other suspects that I have to believe I've not reviewed the trial transcripts but one
thing to point out here is that Joe had no trial he confessed and then he testified against David Thorne and not
over overly whelmingly convincing in his testimony against David Thorne either I
think you pointed out that he on your show that he says I don't know is seeing seems to be the most common answer that
he gives while on the stand I don't know I I see I see a case where we have other possibilities we have
other good suspects and I can't believe that the defense even made reference to these people the whole thing here is
I've always said that your homicide or the the victim if you're a family member of a victim your case is only as good as
the desk of the officer that your case File lands on and that's the unfortunate truth of these scenarios and obviously
there are some better police forces than others that will always be the truth but
one thing that gets lost in a lot of these True Crime cases especially the ones that are solved is you know we've
presented some cases here in the garage where you get these guys that just get bum freaking lawyers that they they're
happy to take your money but they ain't they ain't going to do any work for it well that's the thing they paid a lot of
money this was a private attorney that they hired David's family they again they were not broke I mean they used
they had money to hire this private attorney well and the defendant is usually blinded by the idea oh this guy
costs a lot of money he must know what he's doing yeah well I don't know if this guy knew what he was doing or not
but he didn't act that way or conduct himself that way he called three Witnesses the guy's on could be facing
the death penalty well it reminds me a lot of the Ryan Ferguson Triumph because you have yeah one guy confessing
to the crime the other guy saying I wasn't one I have an alibi but two I wasn't involved at all
and then you have a crappy lawyer that basically says oh well prosecution didn't prove their point so I'm not
gonna really defend it much how many episodes Have You released so far and how many more do you have to go
so there's 14 and we have six more and it is with some of the very exciting key people that can answer or just muddy
more of this but you know it's um this is a crazy case and I'm so thankful for you guys for putting it on your Airwaves
especially from Ohio because somebody knows something we have a tip line number now that people can call if
anyone in Ohio in the alliance area knows anything the number is 888-863-9550 so I really thank you guys
for this thank you as always for coming on the show we're looking forward to the
final episodes of murder in Alliance [Music] wish me [Music] [Music] thank you guys so much for the support
thanks for telling a friend so much more you can dive into in this case and that's why this week's recommended
listening will be murder and Alliance wherever you get your podcast and join us back here in the garage next week for
a new case until then be good be kind and don't listen foreign [Music]

Murder in Alliance /// Part 2 /// 521

Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

April 1st, 1999 - 26 year old Yvonne Layne was found dead in her home. Her children were in the house with her and were found unharmed. Police quickly suspected one of Yvonne ex-boyfriends David Thorne. Some say this case is unsolved and the real killer is still out there and others say it was solved a long time ago. Join us in the Garage with Murder in Alliance host Maggie Freleng for a cold one or two as we unravel this week’s True Crime mystery.

"This episode has been edited for accuracy. Certain portions have been removed to ensure a fair depiction of all those parties involved."

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses Yvonne's murder, exploring suspects, crime scene details, and police investigation shortcomings.

Key points

The Crime Scene. The crime scene reveals signs of overkill, suggesting a personal motive behind the murder.
Eyewitness Accounts. Multiple eyewitnesses provide conflicting descriptions of a man seen near the crime scene.
Mysterious Confessions. Joe Wilkes confesses to a crime before police questioning, raising questions about his involvement.
The Case Against David Thorne. David's defense questions the lack of evidence against him over three months.
Joe Wilkes' Involvement. Joe admits to seeing the victim but claims it was a casual encounter.
Psychic Investigation. The police consulted a psychic, raising eyebrows about their investigative methods.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

They took care of one of the children.

5:37WatchNov 4, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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