Cold Case: Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey /// Part 1 of 3 | Forensic Files

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n [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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up on the mailing list so you can get some free promo codes that's enough of the business all right everybody gather
around grab a chair grab grab a beer let's talk some true crime someone killed this six-year-old
child some people don't think it's ever going to be solved people hated the Roses we have a kidnap it we were just a
regular family we have a kidnapping J Ramsey was in child due to pants was there an intruder or was the
family invol someone killed his 6-year-old child people hated the real you have a
kidnapping I did not kill my daughter John Benet we have a kidnapping there is evidence of an
intruder I say this over and over and over again we have a kidnapping someone killed his 6-year-old
child people hated the [Music] real about a week ago a documentary docu series came out that a lot of people
were talking about it's got the the people in a wh trying to figure out what happened to poor John Benet Ramsay many
many years ago I believe we're at uh 27 28 years now almost for this unsolved Cold Case and I'm calling it a cold case
because I don't know how much activity is actually happening outside of the media on this case and I think that's
fair to speculate because in this docu series it didn't seem like Boulder Police wanted to be a part of of the
series or at least add a comment or or or get involved so the docu series was called Cold Case who killed John Benet
Ramsay it's on Netflix it's a three-part series it was a quick watch for me just because
I'm fascinated by the case it's got a lot of people talking on social media again and a lot of people asking
questions a lot of new observations let's say from certain people that have called some things into question so we
wanted to Circle back as our longtime listeners know we have discussed this case at length on several opportunities
over the years and in fact last year we released many episodes about this case started off with a six-part series
several years ago so this is a case that we will likely continue to revisit periodically and explore it when there
is new information or old information that maybe needs to be rehashed and that's what I think we got here from
this docu series that came out just a little over a week ago yeah and mixed reviews on this it's been number one on
iTunes pretty much all over the world so a lot of people watching it but mixed reviews some people think it's just
rehashed old information nothing new it's a steamy pile of dog [ __ ] and other people thought it was very fascinating
and what the media is telling us is there's a whole new generation Our Generation looks at cases like the OJ
Simpson case or the Menendez brothers or John Benet Ramsay has like these are cases you should know or west Memphis 3
everybody should know about these cases but that's our generation the new generation is discovering this John Ben
Ramsey case pretty much for the first time that's fascinating to me Captain because when we were at crime con
earlier this year late May early June John Ramsay was present there were people there talking openly about the
Jean Benet Ramsey case and the thing that I thought was really interesting I met some folks that were pretty hardcore
into True Crime listening to podcast watching everything they can on TV they had Tagalongs right we know that a lot
of times a husband or boyfriend will tag along that's typically the setup th those are my favorite people yes the
ones that come up and go my my wife loves you I I don't know who you are and I'm like hey let's have a let's have a
beer later the guys that go I was just in charge of the driving portion of this trip um but they have a great time and
so I met several people that are somewhat new to True Crime and let's say about 10 years younger than us roughly I
was really shocked and surprised at how little they knew about the John B Ramsey
case and it was interesting to me to have these conversations with those individuals to see how they're kind of
working through it in their mind and and the toil that they have to do because this is a case with so many obstacles so
many hurdles to clear it's almost mindboggling and to see them trying to work through it in their mind during
conversation we're having and I'm not trying to Enlighten them as to my opinions or things that I've researched
over the years on this case or or trying to educate them on some of the details no I'm simply trying to take in from
them what their observations were on items and particulars that they learned throughout the course of their visit at
crime con and to see that they they're they're for the first time forming an opinion on what they think happened yeah
why they think it happened so very intriguing to meet people that are somewhat new to this case it's it's kind
of like we covered Robert Juan last week in the week before if you are outside we
said this then if you are outside of that Washington DC Maryland area it some people if you go further west are not so
aware of that case and it's one of those cases that immediately you start to hear
the details of that case and you go my God why have I not heard about this before and if you have heard of the case
and know some of the details you go yeah I'm ready to buckle up one more time and
revisit this case because it's so intriguing and there's so many avenues that you could go down with that case
and and in ways it's strange we didn't plan this because we we didn't know we knew this docu series was coming out and
I think some friends of mine let me know when they believe the release date was but what we're seeing now Captain with
some of the streaming services is they're not so amped up to to Really hype up and advertise and market a True
Crime Story that they're about to release because it's almost like they're afraid somebody else is going to get the
jump on them if somebody else is working on one so we're seeing this shift where
the the streaming services aren't so openly advertising for these documentaries and docu series way down
the line it's only up until you get close here so with this one coming out real quick and we'll jump into this
because we got a lot that I want to dig through and tear through here because there's so much meat on the bone but
just real quick want to get your opinion on the give give us your ciso and Ebert
as it would be on the docu series well the problem I have with this case is there's a meme everybody's seen it it's
a lady in her bed her face is glowing because of the screen on her cell phone and it's and it says something like this
is me at 3:00 a.m. Googling who killed John Benet Ramsay this is one of those cases for me so any documentary or book
or if I'm on YouTube YouTube loves to suggest random people's random thoughts about this case and I will watch every
single video and that's one of the reasons that this case bothers me and and once it's solved if it ever is
solved at least I can stop that part of my life so it's it's definitely a case that I will dive into any new
information and I agree with a lot of people a lot of this documentary is rehash garbage or information you've
heard before a hot steamy pile of [ __ ] if you will but you have to keep in mind
some people are coming to this case for the first time so you have to go over those details we're not going to go over
all those details in this episode I would give it a two thumbs up I've watched it uh twice now and then I've
watched a ton of videos of people dissecting different scenes and different comments made by John Ramsey
or other individuals in this documentary but I thought it was easy watch I hate when true crime documentaries are six to
eight parts and by the seventh part or eighth part you're like why was this seven or eight parts I think this one
fits nicely with some the old information and some of the new information into a three-part series and
look this was directed by one of True Crime docs OG's right this is half the team that
did Paradise Lost yes and so I'm not going to refer to it as a steamy pile of [ __ ] because I don't
think anybody will care to listen to the remainder of our episode on it I I actually thought it was very good
considering I knew walking into it with with a lot of these cases that are Revisited time
and time again and we we talked about how old this Cas is it's been you know all these years since the poor girl was
killed inside of her home I know with some of these cases particularly because of what we do and and our coverage on
this exact case right here that I've learned to not walk into these going well I'm expecting to learn a whole lot
of new information right and if I can if I can clear that hurdle then I can just
sit back as a viewer and try to absorb it and take it all in and taking it all in I actually thought it was done very
well I thought it the the the look of it the flow of it I thought was very good and you talked about we're we're going
to do this exercise where we we talk through some of the questions that we've seen online and on social and some of
the observations and we've had people ask us hey you guys have done plenty of coverage on this case can you can you
talk about some of these things so I'm excited to jump into this exercise but you mentioned we may not be getting into
all the details and that's for good reason we could spend all of 2025 once a week talking about this case
and probably leave a few things out 52 weeks of coverage and probably leave a few things out I part of me thinks that
the case has gotten too big that a lot of the a lot of the important stuff might be getting lost because it's
become so expansive but if you're new to our show or tuning in maybe even for just the first time if you want to know
more about our coverage if you want to learn the details and the particulars of this case or here our side of it we
started covering this case in 2019 leading up to Christmas we did six episodes Little Miss Christmas we have a
kidnapping hurry please we have your daughter the autopsy Santa Claus the family those were the six episodes that
we did in December of 2019 in 2023 just after Thanksgiving we did additional coverage looking at it
from a different angle where we brought in experts to talk to we did two episodes called the m detective that
came out in November of 2023 and then in December we did two episodes called I killed her one episode
called presumed guilty and then three episodes titled poems and pornography so if you want more information from the
garage I direct you there now one of the first things that was discussed in this
case after the documentary came out was a lot of people were very surprised about about the layout of the Ramsay's
home the complexity of the layout of that house and Not only was it a very large house but the layout is very
unique it's quite chopped up and one thing that police and the detectives will tell us here about this particular
murder is that the complexity and the layout the unique layout of the ramsy home would make it very difficult for
the Intruder Theory to work it it it complicates the Intruder Theory yeah I think this is a point that doesn't go
either way this could point to somebody in the family being involved this could also point to an intruder because you
could also make some argument if they were trying to get out of the house and then the Intruder was confused that
maybe that's why the murder took place there and and they didn't follow through with the kidnapping so I I don't think
this points either way but I think when you see this footage and kind of like what you're saying this case has got so
big that when there are new documentaries or new books what you're basically doing is getting extra details
about the details we already know so we know that the house is large we know that it's complex but when you see them
going through the there's this law enforcement footage where they're going through the kitchen and they have to go
down another level to like the pantry area and then they go down another level and now they're in the basement you
start seeing pretty quickly how confusing this place would be to navigate but you can also see the
separation and so if you're one to believe the Intruder Theory you go well Intruder wouldn't be that scared to
enter a place like this because there's so many places to hide there's so many places to go there's so many places to
take a victim yeah so I I worked building security as a Security administrator for a high-rise property a
large property in downtown Columbus for over three years and one thing that you do is you try to reverse engineer your
property right you you try to look at it not from how do I protect the property you start looking at it as how can I how
would I as a bad guy get into this property what how what's the compromises in our security here and from if I go
that angle and look at this house boy I can't wait to get in there that I'm telling you man this this house is
perfect for breaking into it now breaking into it and committing a murder breaking into it and taking a child for
ransom that's a whole different can of worms but let's consider this okay what are the complexities because what we are
told here is that the complexity of this house actually would point to that someone within the home killed the girl
that there was not an intruder and that is that is what has been outright said by police at times and then also the P
the picture that they like to paint for us the seed that is planted for us they don't directly say it but they they hint
at it so the complexities is it's like a 6500 square foot home that is gigantic the thing here too is I you know homes
that have been built onto and that's is the case here this is a what's referred to as a tutor home tutor style home it
was eventually added on to when I look at homes that have been added on to if they added a wing here or a room there
or changed a garage into something and then added a garage over here to me I always I always liken that to like a a
quilt rather than a blanket right like a blanket looks like one complete piece of
work where with a quilt you can kind of see how they added on it's it's even obvious how they add it on as you go but
6,500 square feet that is complicated and it's it's cut up right this house is cut up on every
floor but one thing we need to keep in mind here is if you're telling me that the
home is complicated and that points to to the ramsy as being guilty who's to say that the Intruder isn't somebody
that had been in the home before who's to say that the Intruder didn't have some prior knowledge of the house before
going into the house whether the Intruder had prior knowledge or not what I can see from the street view is I can
see that it's surrounded by a large fence that's problematic for my operation but what I can see immediately
is I want to get to the backyard and I know that I have an Alleyway I know that if I can get to that backyard I have
some things working on my side as the potential Intruder or Intruders so if you go down to the one thing that's
complicated for an intruder that that has no prior knowledge of the home that hasn't been into the home
before or had discussions with people that have been in the home before from the street view Captain I cannot tell
that this home has a basement I would assume that it did I am looking at the home and I believe there's a possible
third floor but I can't confirm that by the street view but I don't think it would be that hard for any individual to
go inside a house even if it's a large house and within you know 10 minutes 20 minutes of touring the house by yourself
you're going to kind of get a lay of the land you're going to have an understanding of the house pretty
quickly I wouldn't say within minutes I mean may maybe for a smarter person than
I but I this is where I do agree with the Boulder police detectives the every floor is cut up so much there's a
basement there's a ground level second floor third third level the parents are sleeping on the third floor or at least
we are told that's where what is going on that night the problem becomes here if you go to the basement it's cut up
into one 2 3 four five five rooms plus two crawl space plus 1 2 3 4 five five closets and a staircase now where it
gets even more complicated is when you go to the ground level the second floor and the third floor there's multiple
staircases inside this home that is different from many homes so when you get to the ground level you have one
staircase that goes to the second floor you have one staircase that goes to the second and then the third floor so
meaning if you are on the second floor you can't take both staircases to get to the third floor and to the first floor
there's one staircase that only goes from floor one to two and there's one staircase that only goes from floors two
to three MH so the staircases in part are complicated but if I'm looking to compromise the security of this home the
broken window that is discussed in the documentary and has been discussed at length on on many
anytime this case is talked about the broken window at the rear of the home that is exactly where I would break into
this house so you have in the basement you have you have seven windows that you could potentially access this home if
you are out there look order a security system from Simply safe and secure your home okay you can do that yourself and
it's the it's in my opinion my humble garage opinion the best security system out there now other security systems a
lot of them are going to send a person out to your house and they're going to sell you equipment they're going to tell
you what you should be concerned about Mr civilian who who you don't know anything when they're trying to sell you
something what they're going to point out to you is that you really want to secure your master bedroom why because
that's where the criminals go because it's the the statistics are like 70 to 75% of the values inside of a home are
stored in the master bedroom so that's where they want to get to so especially if you have a ranch home you really want
to secure that master bedroom so I've had multiple security systems in my homes throughout the years if you can
afford one I I I don't see why anybody wouldn't have one it seems silly not to have one I've told those the security
persons that you know they they say they're experts whatever I great that's that's cool you're an expert at security
systems for single family homes I was a Security administrator for a 28 story multi-million dollar building and
property for three years you access points is all you give a godamn about the access points the easiest access
points to almost any home is basement windows you break them they're usually pretty thin glass and you work your way
in you just slide right in you know why because when you leave the home guess where you're not leaving through the
basement window there are doors that you're going to leave through on the ground level because that you you're
looking to do a smash and grab and get the heck out of there now what's interesting to me here is if there were
an intruder there there are so many doors and windows in this home you could say that this guy this person or persons
could have in anywhere but what we do know is that there was a broken window there was an open window and then later
L smid who works the case says this grate was lifted up and the person climbed right down through the grate and
there were three Windows right there they went in the middle window and and and to be clear L smid is actually
saying he's not being that definitive about it he's he's simply saying he believes the Intruder either entered
through that window or left through that window or both that window I tell you is
one of the four if you if you just can't walk you're not going to go in the front
of this house why that's the street view that's that's where you're going to be seen these guys don't want to be seen
you're go in through the back and the best points of entry for the back of the home are these four windows at the back
of the home and one of them we do know was found broken and over open according to John Ramsey which I find that
statement to be very interesting we talked about that in our previous coverage we we'll Circle back to the
window we because we could spend a lot of time on the window I also we don't have to take John Ramsay's word for it
there was other eyewitnesses that saw the broken and open window and also statements from law enforcement yes and
the other thing here too is to point out some other access points on the main floor the ground level you have one two
three four five six you have six doors that lead to the yard to the outside of the home yeah so any of those could have
been unlocked and we also have I think it's not that hard to gain access there was uh a second level balcony to John
Bonet wind or two John Bonet room and then there was also a a bigger balcony that would would have led you into the
common area of the second floor yeah so the captain's correct there's two balconies one of them is a small balcony
which would lead directly to John's bedroom the other balcony is quite large and would lead you into a child's
playroom which is separates for without going into the complexity of the second level the child's playroom separates
burk's room from John benet's room that large balcony you can access both the children's playroom and burk's bedroom
now if you are entering this home with the purpose of kidnapping John Benet or doing something to her you are going to
want to avoid that large balcony if you have any prior knowledge of the home why
because your target is nowhere near this large balcony and you're closer to the street view and you are directly below
John and paty Ramsay's bedroom at this point if you don't want to be heard if you don't want to disturb and wake the
parents you are going to avoid the large balcony if you have knowledge of this home so I agree the the and it it's it's
simply there is no right or wrong here this is just a matter of opinion I agree that the complexity of the house that it
is complicated that it is unique that it is large that it would be very confusing
to maneuver in the dark the problem being that it directly points toward the ramsy being involved is a that doesn't
account for people that have prior knowledge to the home that have been in the home before mind you they had PE
people that work for them they had a lot of contractors that were in and out over
their time there and they had a lot of guests they they threw parties large Christmas party they had decorators in
and out of there people interior decorators decorators for these parties and Caterers and then on top of that
doesn't account for something that has always been a a speculation on this case the the ramies were gone for several
hours before returning home that night if the Intruder entered the home while they were gone the Intruder may have
time to educate themselves as to the layout of the house to walk the house to take a look at what is my route from her
bedroom to the basement or my route from her bedroom to one of these six doors on
the ground level to get the hell out of here so I don't think that I don't think
that this points directly either way I don't think you can look at this one aspect and go okay well it had to be the
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mates cheers to you Colonel tall canes in the air T can in the air indeed now expanding on the home a little bit one
thing we saw in the documentary was a lot of footage of camera footage of the home immediately after the crime took
place which shows a very messy home it shows many rooms were in disarray one interesting aspect to consider here is
this is going to make searching the home and collecting evidence quite difficult
now keep in mind it's Christmas time you have two small children in the home I would expect to find the Home in
disarray yeah I think some of the rooms were organized and and to put on a a show for people and then I think there's
other rooms like when they get into the basement you can see that these rooms have not been clean or organized for a
long time again this is what makes it hard because if you're going through the house and law enforcement is telling you
which was a mistake to tell the family go through the house let's let us know if there's anything out of order if
there's something that's there that shouldn't be there or something that's missing well when your house is a mess
it's hard to know what should be there and what shouldn't be there and so there's a lot of arguments with John
Ramsay's statements about this suitcase and it being under the window that he says well that shouldn't
have been there I just question do did they know what should have been there and what shouldn't have been there the
other problem is collecting evidence and there's a lot of people that claim there
is no evidence of an intruder well again if if you have something that was left by the Intruder
but we don't have a clear understanding of where that item came from and and and
this is a clear understanding of the people that lived in the house then this is going to make it way more complicated
for law enfor the interesting thing here and this is something that's been talked
about for many many years is it also makes it difficult to figure out what items belong to the Rams and what didn't
because it didn't seem like like with some items in particular if they they seem a bit clueless if that item was
something that belong to them or not and I'm with you on the suitcase it's like okay so the suitcase is not where it
should be but that's the kids like play area for a lack of better term did the kids play with that suitcase and move it
right you know we I've seen small children play with empty boxes so anything is a toy when you're at a at a
certain age and you have a a designated play area so well and there was an interview with John Ramsey where he was
saying looking back on this 27 years later he he's not even he doesn't he isn't confident that
that's even their suitcase so and some people go what do you mean you're not confident about this
well you have to remember one his age he's in his 80s and it was 27 years ago and I think we have this belief that
because his child was murdered that he would know every single detail and that he would have read every single book and
that's just not true and so there's probably some armchair detectives out there that have a better knowledge and
better understanding of the details in this case than John Ramsey himself but he might have been listening to our
podcast CU I think both both of us lean towards the idea if there was an intruder that the Intruder entered the
house when they're away at the dinner party and and John says that in this documentary so I thought that was an
interesting point that that he made during this cold case well and I mean but it's also not a statement that he
hasn't said before i' I found at least one statement from 2020 where he said the same thing and I'm assuming that he
has said that before and it's gotten to the point here Captain where I've reviewed and read so many books on the
case I'm I I have a hard time placing what information came from from which book but yeah he's he said this before
but with in regard to the suitcase think about it in this way what did he say about the window oh I broke it in the
summertime so I could get into the home I had locked myself out I I broke that window and I climbed in I thought it was
fixed but maybe I was wrong so we're talking about something was broken several months earlier and he's not even
clear if it was fixed or not so why the hell would he know where the hell suitcase is supposed to be and I don't
understand why we don't have a clear answer on that if I was law enforcement my first thing would look this is a busy
man this is a big house they had several people that did work for the house let's
figure out if the window was fixed or not because if the window was fixed and now it's broken well that's evident
of an intruder and can I point to it this way we talked about this in our initial coverage in
2019 that statement by John Ramsey has always I've always found it to be intriguing because he he's an he's an
intelligent guy right here you have a situation where police are looking at you and they're they're kind of casting
suspicion on you and and you have this opportunity with this broken window that's open and his response is
I thought we fixed it but maybe I'm wrong I'm the one that broke into that window in the summertime right he had an
opportunity there if he was trying to cover something up to say well guys come on look look at this
broken window of course we know what's going no he doesn't say that he's like I don't you know I'm pretty sure we fix
that window and I think that's evidence that somebody could point to the fact that John Ramsey wasn't trying to cover
something up but a couple things that were found in the the home there was a rope that was found in
the spare bedroom now we don't know where that rope came from now a lot of people go
well rope found in a spare bedroom that that's evidence of an intruder also what was happening at the
time was there was a lot of decorations Christmas decorations to this house so then that makes me wonder
was there somebody that was paid to set up these decorations and was this an item that
they were going to use for decorations and they just left it in the spare bedroom cuz like we said the house is
big it's complex did somebody just leave it behind the ramsy say we don't know where this rope came from but again how
many people were working in your house what items were brought into your house uh but we do know that the paintbrush
was found in the home and then we have a baseball bat that was found in the backyard and then we have a Mag
flashlight that was found in the house but when people talk about well the bat might have been used because because we
know that she that jamban had blunt force trauma to her head so is is it caused by this bat or was it caused by
this Mag flashlight neither one of those had any evidence that they were used in
the crime they found none of John Ben's blood on those items I believe as what what we're seeing here um so to be I
want to be perfectly honest we're not going I'm not going to have some definitive answers on some of these
items because it's been reported differently and and frankly I think reported by some what I believe to be
pretty good sources here as for the flashlight there are sources that state that that flashlight belonged to the
ramies and it appears to be out of place because it was found in the kitchen correct yes other sources State the
flashlight did not belong to the Ramsay therefore if you are a a big fan of transfer Theory as I am then that is
suggestive that somebody left something in the home likely without knowing or because they had to flee the home and
couldn't retrieve it and the same would go for the Rope the Rope is is very intriguing because it seems like that's
the one item that all sources agree that the ramsy are saying that rope is not ours at least there appears to be some
confirmation of that I'm not going to say that the the Boulder police detectives are confirming that but I
I'll say that at least multiple sources are confirming that that rope did not belong to them could it have been left
by decorators or somebody else contractor Poss possible the bat same as the damn flashlight you go to multiple
sources different books different news outlets and it's all over the shop that bat belonged to the Ramsay didn't belong
to the ramies or they don't that it's uncertain who it belonged to and at least one other source I found was that
Lou Smith in his investigation was very intrigued by the bat found in the backyard of the Ramsey
home also a bat that was found by police shortly after the crime in a neighboring
backyard could that bat have just simply belonged to the neighbors possibly but that bat as far
as I understand in the neighbor yard is same as the bat found in the Ramsay's backyard unconfirmed of who exactly it
belonged to other item would be black duct tape that was used well let me let me address the paintbrush because it
it's my understanding that the paintbrush belonged or is believed to have come from Psy's paint
yeah we know we know that that item was found in the house yes and so but but that paintbrush that was used on John B
was believed and I haven't found one source to say otherwise that that paintbrush didn't belong to the Ramsay
right again that was an item that was found in the house so we have this paintbrush that they're
using to create a gat they use this special type of cord that cord was not found we didn't find a spool of that
cord somewhere else in the house and then black and to be clear the cord is different than the Rope just for persons
new right so the cord used for the strangulation we don't have a a bundle of it somewhere else in the house so we
we believe that cord came from outside the house then we have this BL black duct tape that was found across her
mouth again this is a item that we we don't have a a roll of black duct tape somewhere and this is what kind of drove
me nuts just a little bit they keep showing this duct tape you have a whole department when you're creating this
documentary to to gather up this evidence that you want to show the world it's not that hard to find black duct
tape just make it black duct tape because even just those little missed details somebody's going to say oh well
everybody has duct tape in their house maybe and maybe it's a very common item found but you're more likely to find
regular silver duct tape than you are black duct tape so black duct tape and the cord use and the strangulation both
of those items we can't say came from the house so that would be some evidence that there was possibly an rer yes and
keep in mind with the I believe it was with the duct tape that they had found a receipt a cash receipt from a local
hardware store that doesn't Define the purchase that was made so they don't know what
item was purchased but the the price of of Whatever item was purchased from that
hardware store in December leading up to the murder was the same price as uh duct tape at that store so that that
could and and when I say a purchase it was a purchase made by the ramies well one could make an argument that there
was black duct tape in the house and somebody used it and then took the the rest of the role with them you could
also make the same argument about the cord they cut a cord the remaining cord um that cord was found in the house the
intruder used it and then took the remaining cord with him that that those are all possibilities yeah that took
took something that belonged to the Ramsay or brought something with them to the scene we've spent a good deal of
time on the ransom letter on this show over the years we've even Revisited The Ransom letter on at least one occasion
on off the Record but one thing that is brought up time and time and time again is in in this docu series we have FBI
agent Ron Walker and and he's not this is not where this starts this started with the detectives the Boulder police
detectives but in the docu series we have FBI agent Ron Walker stating that Ransom notes are typically short that's
why they're typically referred to as a ransom note because notes are short this I would call Ransom letter because it's
three pages long they are telling us or at least planting the seed that this is suggestive of somebody who does not who
is not committed this type of crime before it's showing a level of inexperience and also a Le a level of
window dressing if you will smoking mirrors paint paint the picture that there was an intruder that this Ransom
let that that somebody did take the girl or attempted to take the girl and was seeking a
ransom but the L of the letter is indicative that the ramies are guilty and manufactured the letter yeah so I
think the claim is that this this is a bogus letter that there was no intention for a kidnapping so you could go well
this is the Ramsay's staging this whole kidnapping scenario you could also make an argument that after the Intruder
killed John Benet that he wrote this Ransom note to throw off law enforcement at the end of the day they think this
this this Ransom note is bogus my question would be okay if they're typically shorter do we have a
percentage do we have a percentage of Ransom notes that are longer and and what's the percentage because to me you
have to look at evidence and go is this evidence of fact or is this evidence of just possibility and and so to me this
is just evidence of possibility this possibly means that the note is completely bogus but in the documentary we find
that John Ramsay hands two notepads to law enforcement to initially right away hey we have this Ransom note we want
copies of your handwriting we need handwriting samples from from you and from your wife so John Ramsey goes and
finds two pads of paper and he takes those and he gives those to law enforcement so my question is if John
Ramsey was trying to cover this up and we believe one of the notepads he gave to law enforcement is the notepad that
the ransom notes come from if he knew that paty wrote The Ransom notes on that pad of paper why
would he hand that pad of paper to law enforcement it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and then this whole idea
that there's earlier drafts because they find on the top of one page of the notepad Mr and Mrs line again maybe this
is evidence to point to the possibility that somebody was that somebody had a draft a earlier draft of
the ransom note and they started over again but Mr and Mrs line doesn't tell me anything now if it was Mr and Mrs r
I'd go okay that's more evidence of that's a possibility but again I I I just think again you have to look at
this evidence and go is this evidence of fact or or is this just evidence of uh possibility and that that's exactly
right you you nailed it there because the claim is that this is the the the first draft right the person
sat down and and I'm I'll back up the the bust a little bit here because I if it if the Intruder Theory works if
that's if that's the solution to this I believe that like John Ramsey said and like some others have said before us
that the Intruder went into that home before while they were gone at at the dinner party that night and had ample
time inside the home alone or with whoever was assisting in this uh mess therefore I I believe if the Intruder
Theory works that the letter was drafted before the abduction attempt or and murder if if in fact it truly was going
to be an abduction attempt you ask what percentage reviewing a lot of cases I've
never seen a ransom let's even go to this to the extent to say Ransom letter I've never
seen a ransom letter more than one page most of the time they're they're three sentences four sentences they're very
short so this is abnormal I would call that abnormal but I do want to point out this Boulder Police openly say so you
have on record on camera on the docu series that we're discussing today Boulder law enforcement stating I don't
believe that we've ever had a kidnapping for ransom in this city before in the entirety time that this city has existed
we've never had a kidnapping for ransom that this individual that this agency is
aware of but then you're going to tell me that the letter doesn't fit because it doesn't look like other kidnapping
Ransom letters you just told me a second ago that you've never had a crime like this in your city not saying that you
wouldn't know what those look like or can't compare it or reach out to other agencies what I'm saying is this
regardless it if it were to be a kidnapping for ransom or or painted to be that way by somebody other than the
Ramsay yeah you are openly saying you've never had a crime like this so don't try
to to wedge it into a little cookie cutter business of what it's supposed to look like you've just told me this case
is unique I would expect if this case is unique that there are unique aspects and
evidence in this case I can only speculate what I think I would do if I was law enforcement but there is a thing
called Hold Back information and this Ransom note to me is holdback information this note would have never
been leaked I would never have anybody in the public it'd be 27 years later and people would be going there's a ransom
note or letter and maybe law enforcement says well it's a little bit longer than
a normal Ransom note but 27 years later the public would still be wondering what
that note said because this is not something I would have released to the public almost six
years and in the deli case police gave no indication that there was a gun used in the commission of those murders
almost six years and then even after an arrest was made they didn't confirm that
until it went to trial so I'm I'm with you Captain I think that was a if if there was they could have kept some
things under WRA here and this Ransom letter should have been a big part of that now I do want to point out
something because we've we've danced on this a little bit with with John Ramsey well if he knew paty Ramsey wrote this
letter there why would he give this notepad to the police if John knew that paty uh that
that if John was covering up the murder of his daughter why would he openly discussed the window that he broke it
that summer I want some people to keep this in mind and and us to keep it in mind as
well Steve Thomas who was one of the lead investigators on this case and why while I may not agree with
his his hypothesis as he likes to call it on on what happened there that night his book is very good I've read it
several times I recommend it to everybody regardless of what theory you think is
correct and even even if you have a theory who cares continue the investigation continue to seek information because we
don't know until we know but Steve Thomas's hypothesis his theory is that paty Ramsay's responsible
and John Ramsey was not aware now he may have become aware at some point but was
not aware that night or even that morning so what that would imply to me is that he is not participating in the
cover up because he doesn't know that he should be exactly and I think that would
make sense with a lot of John Ramsay's actions and that leads to this this other topic here crime scene containment
and let's put containment in air quotes there because there was no containment of the crime scene and that I think
think is is one of the biggest problems in this case whether there was a cover up by the Ramsay or by Just One of the
ramsy or if there was an intruder and collecting evidence and all that we know that the the police did not contain the
scene when they arrived there thinking that there was an abduction they did not contain the scene
at all and and the ramies didn't contain the scene either but they're civilians they're they're you know and if in fact
their daughter if in fact they believe that their daughter was kidnapped they're probably not in the right state
of mind but this is one thing that that absolutely ticks me off about this case and Boulder PD's handling of this case
they don't talk about this case a whole lot but when they do notice what they say really police their
words they choose to make things convenient for their investigation right meaning oh
well this was probably not an abduction attempt for ransom because our City's never had one
before right makes no sense right but then when asked well why didn't you contain the scene why didn't you
lock down the damn house then they say well when we got there it appeared that an abduction had taken place okay so
which is it we reviewed the letter and immediately that's telling us that someone inside the home killed the girl
or somebody something happened inside this home we've not even found the girl yet yeah so when it's convenient for
them they point to well things look the way that they did look when they want to
tell you that the Ramsay know what happened to their daughter they point to oh it was a cover up and these guys
didn't know what they were doing and here's is poking holes in their cover up and why it doesn't work you can't use
that for both arguments you can't you you can't say well we did our job best to our ability but it was complicated
because of this no the truth at the end of the day is you didn't regardless of what you thought when you arrived you
didn't contain the scene you didn't secure evidence and you didn't search the home completely there's no nice way
of putting it the dead girl is in the basement you didn't find her after searching the home twice and in the docu
series when paty Ramsey says and of course this is old video footage she's saying while we were there waiting for
the phone call or waiting from for contact from the the kidnappers I asked the police well what are you doing
outside of this home are you did you shut down any of the roads are you are you searching the airport and I it
sarcastically in my head when I watching that part of this docu series I said to
myself pretending to be the officer responding to her her question well no ma'am we we're not
searching the airport hell we've not even fully searched your home yet right this is interesting because the Linda
art part so Linda art was at the scene very early on and she was tasked with trying to keep everybody calm and try to
keep everybody at Bay remember she even says in many statements that she was in charge of of keeping everybody inside
the home so now inside the home we have father hover stock we have some of the Ramsay's friends that were that were at
the dinner party with them the night before and at this time everybody the girl is Missing they've
not found her in the basement yet in this docu series we see footage this is old footage that that had been on
magazine shows many many years ago but it's Linda art saying that well uh John Ramsay's doing all these
suspicious actions now one thing she's always said is that she was having trouble keeping
him in the den in his office area she had told him to go into the den and that she was having trouble keeping him in
there again why do you need to keep him in there if if if law enforcement is telling us all these years later well
when we arrived on the scene it looked like an abduction you don't need to keep him in there number two they point out
like well he was going through his mail like he doesn't care like well why wouldn't he care because he already
knows what happened he's part of the cover up or or he killed his daughter and Ramsay states in the docu series
well I was going through the mail because I thought well maybe I didn't have to go out to the mail box and
collect it it comes through the mail shoot and he thought well maybe if there if the kidnappers try to contact us
maybe somebody dropped a letter or wrote a letter and there would be further instruction I don't think that fully
explains it away but I I look I have a very big Linda AR is a very big problem for me for many reasons one I feel bad
for her because she was at that scene all by herself with so many people inside that home and people have said
well she didn't do a very good job while she was inside that home keep in mind if
any if you held rank at all at Boulder PD it's Christmas time you were not working that day not only that a lot of
those dudes were on vacation a lot of a lot of the higher ups men and women were
on vacation some of them not even in the area we know Steve Thomas who's a detective was he wasn't even in Boulder
when this took place she where I feel bad for her is she is being blamed for not containing and the people inside
that home and yet when she called for help many times and kept asking are you sending anybody else out here a couple
of those calls they didn't even bother to respond to her they didn't even bother to say no we're not sending
anybody they just didn't even respond to her can you imagine and then later being
blamed for something like you gave me an an impossible task and then you criticized me openly to the public for
not being able to fulfill that task right but then she goes on camera saying how guilty she thinks John Ramsay is one
thing that's missing from this this whole portion of the story is Linda AR was consoling openly consoling the
ramies after John Bay was found dead and I'm not talking about right then and there I'm talking weeks and and and
maybe even months afterwards well and that's a problem with this case is there's so many people that have given
their opinions but their their facts quote unquote facts of what happened changed after they came up with their
own theor and so John Ramsey states that he thought if he could keep his wits about
him that he could get his daughter back and so you have this guy that thinks in this moment and that and that to me
makes a lot of sense if you're a parent oh my God my kids's missing what can I do stay calm that's the only chance that
we have to get her back if I'm law enforcement I'm saying if you don't live here get the F out everybody else sit in
this room now we're clearing the house we're going to make sure that this kidnapper is still not in the house
we're going to make sure that this victim is still not in the house once I do a search I'm going to go back and
take John Ramsay everybody else sit here we're going to go search the house do you does anything look at a place to you
you know give me information as we're going through every room then I'm sitting his ass down and I'm doing the
same thing with paty I'm going through all that again I'm trying to contain the situation because what they had was the
worst thing happened is a parent to find the victim and then contaminate the scene even more Linda aren't look you
want to talk about she is assuming somebody's demeanor she's assuming somebody's actions as strange
this is not evidence this is just somebody's opinion again like you said I think you
could argue that her opinion changed completely and and this was hey if I say I I I exchanged looks with John ramsy
and and he like let me know that he was the killer this makes a better story and
maybe I could make some money off of it because obviously I'm awful at my [ __ ]
job and so then just watch her interview and and tell me what you think of her demeanor just watch her interview
tell me what you think about her actions I mean out of all the people that I've watched interview and some of those were
serial killers she comes off like the craziest person I think I've ever seen interviewed so I I just think um and
maybe one could argue that she feels like she did mess up and that she was getting [ __ ] on by people for messing up
so this is her excuse on on why that happened but she also moved the victim she made so many mistakes and I think
this was her way to try to distance herself from the mistakes that she made instead of just owning up to them again
I have a big problem with an officer technically she was a detective at this time um calling for help and asking are
you sending anybody else and that they not even getting an answer I mean come on right yeah but it's a huge mistake to
then tell the the big the bigest father to go check the house again with no law enforcement present with him the biggest
re the biggest advantage that law enforcement has over criminals is that there the the Manpower the the the
people power the resources the communication that you can team up and gang up on a situation so you can
control a situation here they let they they put her out there and and just let her drown basically and then but but and
look I'll try to give her the benefit of the doubt maybe she's doing good detective work and consoling the problem
I have is that her consoling the Ramsay later days and weeks after the murder but in the moment saying to herself oh I
knew right then that John Ramsey killed his daughter well then why are you consoling them well maybe that's good
toex work and she's trying to be a friend and thinks that maybe she can get some information from them later so I'll
give her the benefit of the doubt there but then when you complain later that you can't control John Ramsey and keep
him in the den and then you send him off on searching the house well that seems counterintuitive to what your initial
goal was of keeping him in the office right I mean a lot of her story just doesn't make any sense and what do we
learn from this docu docu series we learned that many law enforcement agents that were not directly involved in the
case were hearing the parents are responsible and then they all went okay well these detectives must know what
they're talking about so we're just going to assume that they're guilty as well you know and and to go back to
Steve Thomas for a minute he adits through his deposition that this was a plan he he says through
the FBI uh I think again to uh distance himself from criticism but it was a plan
to leak information and they were leaking lie after lie after lie instead of just doing their job and it's
pathetic to any case that we covered if we found out years later that there was handfuls
of Lies leaked to Media that's buffoonery I mean they but but it does happen it's
this is not the only case where where police have taken that tactic but also but but to this degree it
seems yeah but also if this is why you'll have somebody like Ashley flowers interview John Ramsey and not the
captain interview John Ramsay because I would love to scream at him you you you want to
crucify law enforcement but you wanted them so badly to investigate this case with their
hands tied behind their back and I understand that you know he says that they gave them handwriting samples and
DNA samples and all this stuff but you didn't sit down for interviews you you you prefer to sit down on CNN and do an
interview that you probably could control the questions and there's if you would adest
and I I I get that there's this idea that well they're looking at us for this crime that's the only people they're
looking at but some of that comes from not being cooperative with law enforcement if you have some unskilled
untrained law enforcement agent and go okay well they're just not being that Cooperative with us and and you think
law enforcement is tunnel vision some some could argue that law enforcement has never moved on past the
theory that it was the ramies but I I I think the Ramsay are partly to blame why we're
sitting 27 years later and this case isn't solved and some people will go well you're you're victim blaming well
what do we know most likely statistics tell us the the victims found in the house it's most likely the Killer is
from in the house the age of the victim is more likely that they're going to be killed by a family member than a unknown
person so I think when you put all that into account and again we're not privy to all the information so for all we
know yeah the the Ramsey's lawyered up but the lawyer was super cooperative and this is just another lie by law
enforcement to say the Rams weren't Cooperative at all you know maybe it's somewhere in the middle but I think both
are to blame we have you know bumbling buffoons of law enforcement and then we have a very suspicious I think two are
to blame we have bumbling buffoons of a police department and then we have a family that feels like they're
under a magnifying glass and instead of opening up and and sharing as much as they could I I think the difficult thing
becomes for for the parents let's look at this part from the the them being innocent
right if they're if they're being if they are innocent the difficult thing then becomes one we're g we're trying to
grieve and two we see the police looking a lot at us and not looking anywhere else you know me man I want justice as
much as anybody else in every case out there not just this one in every case out there and and but I don't know how
much I'm cooperating with police either given my wealth of knowledge about cases
because we've re reviewed so many cases over the years if if I start thinking well they're they're looking at
me oh and then I can compound that with I don't see any evidence that they're looking out side of my home for anybody
yeah and I know I didn't kill my daughter [ __ ] you I ain't agree I ain't do I ain't helping you with your
investigation get outside of my house and start looking for somebody man and and and you're right and I think the the
part of this too is if they are innocent then you are a civilian you're you're not trained in any of this you don't
know what the what the investigation is doing in front of you behind the scenes you are likely going off of the advice
of your Council that you've hired and if if the attorney I hire says Nick if you
talk to them you you you stand a chance that they'll never go out and look for the real killer that they're gonna lock
your ass up yeah and I and I think if you're the Ramsay if you're John Ramsey the tra the tragedy already
happened your kid is already dead so maybe they don't solve the case but a bigger tra bigger tragedy would be for
the blame to be put on one of us or both of us and again we have other children that we have to be responsible for so I
I I get uh why they did it but I think it's a part of the equation of why it's not solved after 27 years and then
Boulder comes out in the last week or so and makes these statements about the case and what they're working on and and
claims hey we made a lot of mistakes and we we got to take ownership of that that's easy to do when you're the new
person on the case is to say well we made a lot of mistakes and we're going to take ownership of those mistakes that
I didn't make but other people made but even John Ramsay's response to that was I need to know what they're doing I need
to know details and and if you tell me those details and you uh give me this information I'll shut up and I'll let
you just do your job but until then I'm not going to shut up and you want to say
well John Ramsey that's not how this works they don't have to give you all the information of what they're doing
and why they're doing it it's an open investigation for a reason exactly so I do think that is kind of telling of how
John Ramsey Fus this and again I mean there could be just a ton of frustration from his end but and and I want to be
clear I I I want to be clear here because sometimes people hear things that we're not saying and and sometimes
that's our fault but mostly my fault what what I do want to say here is if somebody believes that the lack of
cooperation by the Ramsay points toward their guilt I can agree with that I can absolutely agree with that thought that
opinion so I'm not dismissing it completely I'm also trying to look at it from the angle of if they are true
victims why they may not have cooperated and look not to make light of the situation but we opened up the show with
a Seinfeld reference and so maybe we Clos the show and the show today on a Seinfeld
reference anybody that's watched that show remember the Jackie Charles Cosmo Kramer
relationship Jackie Charles was the fictional lawyer on that show and on multiple occasions he got involved with
Kramer who was suing a big business and Kramer always mucked up the situation because he would make a decision on his
own without his attorney he would make a decision or agree to something with this
big company or a settlement with the large company without the council that he seek out and hired for to represent
him and what was Jackie child's response every time was who told you to talk to them did I tell you to talk to them why
did you talk to them and he always he always messed up their case and I I don't know I'm not trying to make light
of the situation but that I think is is kind of a funny way to really point out well if in this situation if the Ramsay
who did hire attorneys tell them do not talk to them without us present or without us controlling the
situation you might want to follow that you're paying for that advice you might want to follow that advice
[Music] so as you can tell this case makes me heated this docmentary makes me heated as well I
don't know why I get so worked up about this case but I think it's cuz at the end of the day we have a six-year-old
victim that had so much more of her life to live and whether you think the family
is responsible or an intruder is responsible she didn't get to live out the remaining days of her life we're
going to talk more about this because there's we have a whole list of uh points still left to get to so we're
going to get to those on off the Record so for those that are fascinated by the John Benet Ramsey case join us for part
two and possibly part three on off the Record and if this is just a case that you're tired of I I get that sentiment
as well not every case is not for every person and and I will go ahead and say shame on you Captain for getting so
worked up during this episode I was able to stay calm the entire time yes no F bombs dropped nothing at all on my part
so I I don't know why you can't conduct yourself in a more professional manner but no I look look if you're sick of
this case of course you're not you're just not interested anymore I get it but for the rest of us that are very
interested in this case and as you can tell the captain and I are extremely if you have a heartbeat man
hard not to get all worked up about this case it's incredibly frustrating it's it's it's very frustrating that it's not
been solved and it's easy to get angry that at the investigation itself and that it's dragged on and so we apologize
to everybody out there for getting worked up but guess what we got heartbeats here we got big hearts and
it's that time of year again big hearts and big farts that's right so if you are
already a subscriber make sure you check out off the Record where we will continue the conversation
if you're not a subscriber consider it it's available on Apple subscription and also on patreon we want to thank
everybody for listening to us scream and yell at the walls here today wherever you are we hope you're happy and safe
enjoying life and if you haven't checked out the docu series yet make sure you check that out and until next time be
good be kind and don't litter [Music] building a business may feel like a big jump but on Deck small business loans
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Cold Case: Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey /// Part 1 of 3

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

Netflix recently released a new docu-series titled “Cold Case: Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey.” The series is already a hit, reaching Netflix #1 worldwide. This week in the Garage, Nic & the Captain revisit the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation and talk about the docu-series for the first time.

Beer of the Week - Holiday Cheer by Shiner

Garage Grade - 4 and a quarter bottle caps out of 5

The following True Crime Garage Episodes featured the JonBenet Murder Investigation:

Dec 3, 2019 - Little Miss Christmas- ep 1

Dec 4, 2019 - We have a kidnapping, hurry please! - ep 2

Dec 10, 2019- We have your daughter - ep 3

Dec 11, 2019 - The Autopsy - ep 4

Dec 17, 2019 - Santa Claus - ep 5

Dec 18, 2019 - The Family - ep 6

Nov 28, 2023- The Master Detective - ep 718

Nov 29, 2023 - The Master Detective - ep 719

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Brief Summary

Nick and Captain discuss the JonBenét Ramsey case, analyzing new media coverage and ongoing theories about her unsolved murder.

Key points

True Crime Series Returns. A chilling look at a serial killer who compares himself to Ted Bundy.
JonBenét Ramsey Case Revisited. A new documentary sparks renewed interest in the unsolved murder of JonBenét Ramsey.
The Broken Window Vulnerability. The broken window is identified as a key entry point for intruders.
Importance of Securing the Master Bedroom. Statistics show that most valuables are kept in the master bedroom, making it a target.
Complexity of the Home Layout. The unique layout of the home complicates navigation, especially in the dark.
John Ramsey's Uncertainty. John Ramsey expresses doubt about the ownership of a suitcase found in the home.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Someone killed his 6-year-old child.

Discussion about the JonBenét Ramsey case.

3:39WatchDec 10, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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