John Wayne Gacy /// Part 1 /// 105 | Forensic Files

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talk some true crime this is true crime garage and this is the case of John Wayne
[Music] gazy in as Plains Illinois near Chicago a man who served time in prison for sex crimes
was let out today they found the bodies of at least three young boys buried under his house he is charged with
murder here's Jim cumins police have been watching John gasy suburban Chicago home for the past
10 days they became suspicious when 15-year-old Robert past appeared after he allegedly was last seen with gasy
this morning police searched gas's home and found the decomposed remains of three bodies in a dirt crawl space under
the house they suspect there are several more bodies buried here it's suspected because of the looks of the area down in
the crawl space uh there are some other mountains and appears to be more there gasy is a 36-year-old building
contractor who reportedly dressed like a clown to entertain at children's parties
prosecutors say he once went to prison for a sex offense in Iowa this afternoon gasy was charged with murdering Robert
past and after hearing the remains of more bodies were found at gase's house judge Marvin Peters ordered him held
without bond at the hearing police said gasy has confessed to the peace murder he will be
examined by a psychiatrist meanwhile investigators have started to dismantle gas's house
and garage as they continue to ser search for other bodies in this quiet Suburban
[Music] neighborhood Chicago Illinois March 17th 1942 St Patrick's Day Mr John gasy and
Mrs Marian gasy welcomed their first son into the world at Edgewater hospital they named him after his father well
technically they they named him after the mother's favorite actor John Wayne so John Wayne gasy Jr his father was
John Stanley gasy so technically not even a junior he was the second of three children his older sister Joanne was
born two years before him and two years after him was his little sister Karen all three attended Catholic schools and
they grew up on the Northern side of Chicago John Wayne gasy was not a particularly popular kid in school
although he got along well with his teachers and made friends at school he was part of the Boy Scouts and he
enjoyed the outdoor activities that came with being a part of the Boy Scouts now
Gay's father was pretty hard on the children and gasy felt that he was abused mostly emotionally and verbally
his father often told gasy that he was a disappointment that he was dumb that he
was stupid that he was a [ __ ] yeah and he he would even call him some let's say
slurs that we will not be using on today's episode yeah and it seems to me like John Stanley was very excited to
have a boy to have John gasy in the you know John Wayne gasy into the family but
instead of you know fishing and playing sports and stuff like that he was into gardening he was into hanging out with
his mother hanging out with his sister and it sounds like John's Father John Senior was a pretty difficult man to be
around now I don't know if that if John gasy Senor was hard on the two daughters
as much as he was on John gasy Jr yeah he he whooped them all with a razor belt M but I'm I'm guessing that that John
Wayne gasy Jr probably got the worst of it uh being treated a little bit differently by his crappy father simply
because he was the only boy mhm now in 1951 when John Wayne gasy was 9 years old he was diagnosed with some some kind
of heart condition um from my understanding the diagnosis was a non-specific heart ailment yeah and they
detected this because any you know he was playing outside with some people with some friends at school and he
passed out well and this could be part of a a larger problem here because a couple years later when when John gasy
was 11 years old now The Story Goes Like This he was playing near a swing set and
he was hit in the head by one of the swings now you think that this would be a rather small accident however this is
believed to be the cause of of a blood clot that formed in John gas's brain um the blood clot was not discovered until
gasy was 16 from the age of 11 to the age of 16 gasy suffered severe headaches and he often blacked out this was caused
believed to be caused by the blood clot because the blackout stopped after the clot was discovered and gasy was given
medication to to dissolve the blockage in the brain uh this would be a pretty traumatic experience when you think
about it though you have this young boy who's trying to fit in with the other boys and he goes through through this
period of what five years where he's he's got these weird blackouts that would happen from time to time John
Wayne gasey wasn't doing so well in school which was another big disappointment to his father so he
actually started taking on a trade and this was pretty common back in the day so he started working with a printing
press but because he kept on blacking out they said look you cannot work on a printing press machine if you're going
to keep blacking out yeah it's too dangerous something horrible could happen to him well he was hospitalized
several times over the years uh this for the BL the blood clot and for his heart
condition uh he was having quite a bit of problems with this uh this being in his late school years uh gasy was a good
student when he was much younger but maybe because of these health problems uh it it turned out that he ended up not
being able to be a good student uh despite the medical problems gasy was considered a hard worker he took on a
part-time job several part-time jobs after school he had newspaper routes and he also worked at a uh grocery store at
one of those IGA stores as a Bag Boy in a stock clerk that was one of my favorite places to go as a kid we had
one here in town and that you would always hope to get a couple from Mom and Dad so you could buy some candy after
school uh although gasy and his father had a lot of problems as the captain said John gase's relationship with his
mother and his sisters were very strong he was extremely close with his mother and his sisters uh there is rumor and
speculation that John Wayne gasy senior that the the father was not only abusive
but also an alcoholic uh there is some suspicion that he physically abused his wife and verbally abused all three of
the children children as well um well there's not a lot of suspicion that he was a alcoholic he was an alcoholic he
he ends up dying from sorosis of the liver mhm well needless to say the the family had problems uh several times
John's mother threatened to leave Jon's father and even though John Senior was an unpleasant individual um John Jr did
seek out attention from his father and he desperately wanted to gain his father's approval mhm I mean I think you
see that with most boys you know they want the they always kind of seek their approval of the father more so than the
mother I would assume well and outside of these medical problems there were some red flags regarding John Wayne
Casey's childhood and now these are stories that were relayed uh from his mother and his sisters but when John was
about five or six years old he got in trouble within the family and uh he had been stealing killing his mother's
undergarments and these these undergarments kept disappearing and disappearing eventually they found out
that it was John that was taking them um and he would eventually bury them underneath the house after he stole them
from his mother uh having been caught for this and scolded for it uh he he didn't do this you know whatever bad
habit this was he fell out of it for quite a few years but when he was about 15 or 16 he started doing something
similar but it wasn't his mother's undergarments he would steal the undergarments of girls that lived in the
neighborhood off of the clothing lines you know they hang them out the dry and he would steal them and it was
discovered that he would bury these underneath the house as well the old Penny snatcher now John attended several
schools uh several high schools and he never ended up graduating um his father did help him out after after school um
by helping him get his first car but it was one of those situations where he helped him out by kicking his ass well
it was one of those situations where you wonder if John Senior was actually trying to help the boy or not because it
it was a situation where it's like okay dad goes and gets the car for John and now John gasey Jr has to pay payments to
his father well what ends up happening in these situations and I'm sure a lot of us have been there but then Dad ends
up being in charge of the car right you know it's something that you always has have to ask him if you can use your car
to go here or there um you know and he can remind you well you're behind on your payments or it's actually my car no
you can't take it to go here or there right which you have the right to if you bought the car yeah and so this ends up
to ends up leading to a whole bunch of fights and arguments regarding the vehicle well JN decides to run away from
home which is a strange thing to say when a person is 18 or 19 years old that they ran away from home but that's how
he describes it and he ran away and he went to Las Vegas well when he gets to Las Vegas this was not a really wellth
thought out plan by John gasy Jr because he's in a strange town and he has no money what happens while he's there he
ends up going to the hospital okay and he's unable to pay the hospital bill uh they wanted him to pay it was something
small you know $36 which is quite a bit more money back then but he didn't have any money to pay this bill but this will
give you an idea of what kind of personality John Wayne gasy had was that over the course of discussing this bill
and during his hospital visit he ends up getting a job with the hospital you know
and that's the kind of personality he had he was he was the type that they say could talk to anybody and he ended up
being he he he could talk your panties right off or or just take him off the clothes line right um but he ends up
getting a job driving an ambulance now he's eventually fired from this job he doesn't have it for very long because
they discovered that he has no high school diploma which was of course you know a requirement for this type of job
now he's in a strange town he doesn't have any friends he doesn't have any family there remember he's very close
with his mother and his sisters and he's he's very depressed while he's in Las Vegas so the whole time in Vegas even
though he ran away from home he's starting to save back a little bit little bit of money so he can return to
his family and return to his home I think anytime somebody moves away you know especially in this situation he he
he wants to move away to get away from his father but he still wants to impress his father right he still wants to do
something that says see old man I did something yeah and you'll see this when he returns from Las Vegas when he comes
home now this is the early 1960s he enrolled in a business college and he eventually graduated from this business
college so how did you get into college with no high school diploma I think uh some of these schools if you're willing
to pay the bill right they'll figure out a way to get you through so while at business college he perfected his talent
as a Salesman um and he was a he's what people describe as a natural born salesman he could talk his way in or out
of almost anything and he put his talents to work when he was hired at his first real job let's call it uh after
business school when he goes to work for a shoe company now he excelled in his position as a management trainee and not
too long after he was transferred to manage a men's clothing outlet in Springfield Illinois and at this time
he's going to actually find a girl that's going to put up with him and uh marry her yes this is September of 64
gasy met uh what would be his his soon Tobe wife uh she was a co-worker her name is Marilyn Meers now her parents
owned a string of Kentucky Fried Chicken fast food restaurant franchises in waterl Iowa Fred Meyers is her father uh
gase's new father-in-law he offered him a position with one of the franchises M soon after that gasy and his new wife
well and a little quick point here is I think like we talked about this is a guy
that felt like he was a failure and wanted to get ahead and wanted to be you know some kind of status I mean where
maybe the status was actually more important than the actual money but also now I met this girl and her family
actually owns businesses yeah she has successful parents right this could be a good step for my you know my career so
the gasy the young gasey family well gasy and his wife anyway are going to move to Iowa so he can take one of these
positions working for his new father-in-law um now people in the restaurant Biz know this restaurant
managers work a lot of hours and gasy was often working 12 14 16-hour days but he was a workaholic yes and the plan was
that he would learn the business and then take over the franchise from his father-in-law someday yeah when gasy was
not working he was active in the waterl Iowa JC's the JC's is a is a Civic Organization for people between the ages
of 18 and 40 right it's a not for-profit organization that's that has like great
leadership training business development management skills and community service
is all involved with your work with the it's basically a good way to network M and and to get ahead and he was really
interested he he actually started a committee right mhm and what was that committee I want you to say it I'm not
going to say it what was the committee it was a it was a don't Litter committee and it was it was all about
not littering he hated the litter bugs I'm sorry I just I just when when I read that I I just cracked up but so
meanwhile as he's uh doing this non- littering committee mhm over at KFC he is demanding that people call him
the colonel yeah you can't make this stuff up people well he he like the Captain's saying he worked tirelessly
performing volunteer work uh through with the community Through the JC's it was there that he had made most of his
friends and he spent most of his free time working with the JC's shortly after arriving in Iowa gasy and his wife they
had their first baby a son and they also had a daughter while they were living there right and his family members would
say you know this is kind of the first time that John Stanley gasey is looking at John Wayne gasy and saying Hey That's
my boy my boy settled down my boy has a job my boy is supporting his family he's
married um you know I I think John Stanley gasey was kind of worried about his son's sexuality and so now the fact
that he's married and has kids it's like my boy's doing good and actually it was
it kind of the first time that John Stanley was proud of his son mhm well and I think regarding the the mother's
undergarments and maybe part of the reason why the father was so hard on him um it it was not outwardly stated by her
but the belief by the family was that he was wearing these these undergarments and that might have led his father to
believe certain things about his son but but like you said now he's he's out on his own he's working for his his
father-in-law and his successful father-in-law and he's he's working to build a family uh the gases John and his
wife they had every reason to be happy uh during their first few years there in Iowa they had a nice house in the
suburbs uh the kids were healthy uh Marilyn his wife enjoyed staying at home and taking care of the children and John
had a good job and he was busy with the J he was even working on a campaign for uh
presidency of the local JC chapter there yeah uh everything seemed almost too good to be true and in fact we end up
learning that it indeed it was um everything seemed to be looking good for John Wayne gasy Jr yet his lucky streak
would not last too much longer well and I don't know if it was just a luck streak as much as I think he had these
desires or thoughts inside of him him that he was now becoming not able to control yeah and there was some thoughts
that that John Wayne gasy might be homosexual um this is kind of stemming from from some of the young guys working
at the KFC restaurant right uh they say that he is making passes at them um during work hours and while working with
with gayy at the fast food chain um yet people close to him you know refuse to believe the gossip uh right well here's
a married man with with two kids and at the same time that you have this going on at the Kentucky Fried Chicken
restaurant you also have rumors spreading around town amongst the JC members regarding gasey sexual
preference MH um and you know there always seemed to be young boys uh young men were always in gas's presence right
but there's a couple odd things that are happening here okay so John gazy is in charge of recruiting people and he would
stop at nothing to recruit these people for the JC and like we said it's this uh
Community organization and it's supposed to be about networking and helping the community and John Wayne gasy decides
well I'll rent a hotel and I'll start showing these recruits illegal pornography tapes or stag films yeah
right so that then turns into not only are we going to watch these tapes but we're going to hire prostitutes and
have orgies mhm so that's going on the whole time people of this town of Power are having these these
orgy parties and he's also starting at this point to to swing with his wife as well so you you got a lot of weird stuff
going on so but then the rumors about you know the JC starts saying hey well we know he's is doing some of this stuff
but we're doing it too the odd stuff is that he's hanging around a lot of young boys mhm well and with a lot of these
organizations um the way that you can rise to the top very very quickly is by recruiting numbers and if you can
recruit more members than anybody else then you become very popular and a person of Power with inside that
organization and on top of that if you recruited that person and then you have also this information to hang over their
head mhm oh you know you might might not want to you know rub me the wrong way because you don't want me telling your
wife about this well and gasy was getting large numbers of recruits like un almost unheard of numbers of recruits
and it's believed that because he threw these wild crazy parties right that a lot of these people were signing up just
to be part of these parties not so much to be really truly involved with the organization itself now in the spring of
1968 um gasey ends up being indicted on charges of sodomy now in most jurisdictions sodomy is a pretty broad
vague charge the precise sexual acts meant by the term sodomy are rarely spelled out in law but are understood by
courts to include any sexual act deemed to be unnatural or immoral um now there's there's two sides to this
particular sodomy charge uh that that go down here um do you want to give Yeah so
basically the victim's accounts of the story is they're hanging out with John Wayne gayy hanging out at John's house
John shows him a stag film then gives him some alcohol this would lead to some sexual advances mhm um you know we we
know the victim's name but we're not going to say it out of respect to them so obviously there's this very
inappropriate exchange between adult male and basically a teenage boy MH that teenage boy just kind kind of lives with
it and doesn't tell anybody and gayy actually pays him I think 50 bucks and also tells him hey by the way I have
connections with the mob so if you want to you want to talk about this uh you're
going to be in for some trouble right so the boy starts acting strange and eventually breaks down to his parents
the problem with this is his father is is high up with the JC's but just high up as a public figure
well and some of those things align with with the version of the story that I'm going to tell now this is according to
John Wayne gasy by the way we'll throw that out there and that's that's primarily why we're not going to use
this young man's name but according to gasy the young man was a homosexual young man uh who didn't mind having sex
with men for money or sexual favors with men for money now gasy says that the two
of them were involved um that they would get together often um and for some reason the two ended up in a dispute
about money and that the young man went to law enforcement and said that gasey had forced him into some kind of sexual
act uh gasy is picked up for this he denies all of the charges against him uh later gasy was charged with an
additional charge with hiring a another boy to beat up his accuser uh gasy offered some money to another young man
so that the young man could pay off his car Loan in exchange he was going to beat up this kid and the way that this
story goes down is that the the hired young man he gets the kid into his car he drives him to a wooded area where he
sprays him in the face and eyes with mace and then he he tries to beat him up however the boy he fights back and he
ends up breaking the boy's nose and he manages to get away he then calls police and lets them know that he was attacked
by this other boy so when this boy is picked up and taken into police custody he then in exchange gives them John
Wayne gase's name again explaining that you know I was hired to attack this kid ultimately the judge in this situation
sentenced John Wayne gasey to 10 years in Iowa State Reformatory for men the maximum time that you are allowed to
give for this such offense uh John Wayne gasy was 26 years old at this time now shortly after gasey entered prison his
wife divorced him on the grounds that he had violated their marriage vows now while in prison he was he was considered
a model prisoner he remained nonviolent and well- behaved and he hoped for well he was a plus-sized model prisoner and
he hoped for an early parole and after 18 months later well John Wayne gasey his parole is approved we'll get right
back to the sick and twisted mind of John Wayne gasy after this quick beer [Music]
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Mrs be's clearance and [Music] Outlet all right we're back all right cheers mates and so John Wayne gasey was
living in Iowa he sentenced to 10 years in prison for sodomy charges and after only 18 months in prison well they let
John Wayne gasy go in June of 1970 John Wayne gasy left prison and he wanted to return to well just like Robert Johnson
first said and later The Blues Brothers he returned to Sweet Home Chicago now John Wayne gasy never ended up having
the type of relationship that he desired with his father and he never got a chance to rectify that situation after
getting out of prison because John's father passed away during his time in prison this affected JN big time I think
maybe because when Jon's dad dies well Jon is in prison and for sodomy charges too so in a sense isn't John the
homosexual stupid loser that his father always told him that he would be and that he was mhm I think John wanted to
do something with his life to prove to his father that he wasn't stupid that he wasn't a loser and maybe wi his father's
approval and affection at some point in his life right and and he had that for a
small period mhm with the family and everything but now that's that's all wiped away so John Wayne gasey moved
home he moved in with his uh mother and obtained work as a chef in Chicago restaurant uh a job that he seemed to
enjoy and he worked at it with quite a bit of enthusiasm right and after a few months of living with his mother gasy
decided he wanted to buy a house and his mother had been impressed with how he had adjusted to life outside of the
prison and she decided to help him get a house now this would be located just outside of Chicago City Limits and all
of his family claimed that after John Wayne gayy got out of prison he had this insatiable drive to be something and
become something yeah and it was in 1971 when John Wayne gasy met Carol Huff um she was newly divorced
mother oh hold on not to correct you but that's not when they met they were they
were friends from childhood basically school school friends well they they they became engaged at some point and I
believe this took place at some 1971 they weren't married until the following year Carol Huff was a newly
divorced mother of two she had two daughters right um you know you know after the fact people say that gasy
probably romanced uh this woman who was in a state of emotional vulnerability um and that she she fell
for him she she says that she was attracted to gas's charm and his generosity well he's a hard worker and
she believed he would be a good Prov provider for her and her children she was aware of gas's prison experience um
yet she trusted that he had changed his life around for the better uh and Carol and her daughters quickly settled into
their new home with John Wayne gasy well and she also knew about what he claimed
to be uh him being bisexual it was around the same time that John Wayne gasy decided he wanted to go into
business for himself um and he was going to strike it out on his own he began a contracting business named PDM Inc which
stood for painting decorating and maintenance Incorporated uh he hired young teenage boys to work for him he
told his friends that he hired such young men to keep the cost low uh which is which is true he could hire and pay
guys that were 15 to 18 years old and pay them $5 an hour right which was almost double what kids could make at
other jobs at that time he could pay them well and at the same time he would be paying them quite a bit less than he
would have to pay an adult with a good amount of experience however that might not have
been gas's only reason for hiring these teenage boys well I mean and we we've kind of gone back and forth on this um
because a lot of these documentaries when they talk about gayy they never bring up the idea of pedophilia really
you know it's always just talks about you know that he was attracted to teenage boys or young men they most of
the time they say young men yeah and and I think one at the time of all this stuff going around this is not a
commonly used term pedophilia did not become a commonly commonly used term until the 80s MH um and probably the
late 80s well and we talked about that when we covered the Johnny gosh case you know that the investigators were using
the word pedophilia or pedophile and parents were saying they didn't know what that term meant they had not heard
that term before and this was taking place in the early 80s and this was different times I mean there was a lot
of people that there was a lot of people that did not even finish High School they' just go straight to work so we
were kind of talking earlier about how maybe they don't use the term pedophilia because back then you know 17
18-year-old boy is back then was a man could have been looked at as in The public's eye as a man because you know
it seems to me like you have this you have this mindset that that maybe of course 18 is the separation you know 18
is the legal divider between a child and an adult however but in the Public's eye
and the you know the general consens consensus I got was that a man and a boy were more separated by a high school
diploma rather than being 18 because like you said a lot of times people would get that high school diploma and
they would go work for their father in their father's business or they would go off on a trade uh they would start their
own business they would go into some form of work that could end up being their career their adult life yeah I
think you see this a l lot like with movies like days and confused and stuff like that you graduated high school it
is time you're entering the real world it's time to become a man mhm well the gay Seas threw a lot of parties uh and
when it came to parties well John Wayne gasy he was the man he he knew what to do he knew how to throw a great party uh
he would often host block parties and yard parties a lot of them were were themed parties um you know he did some
things like um I think he did like a western style party and a southern Jubilee and a Hawaiian party uh so these
big extravagant parties that he would throw and anyway at gas's parties he always had a lot of booze poker games
you know maybe some pot and remember we said that he was a member of the JC's well this is something that carried on
once he moved back to Chicago he was a member of the JC's but he was also a member of the democratic party as well
yeah so uh Ted Bundy was a Republican and John Wayne gasy was a Democrat so that's why I'm an
independent but gayy was able to get more people to sign up for the JC's and more people to sign up for the Democrat
party than anyone else in the area and he was up to his old tactics uh he was he was even given some awards you know
like Man of the Year Awards and things like that and you know he did this uh for his work with the JC's but but also
with the Democratic party he was throwing these extravagant parties but they were also those parties that we
talked about before you know where stag films yeah it was a lot of booze maybe some pot some gambling but it would end
up with these stag films maybe hire some strippers uh some sometimes escorts and
things like that yeah and just let's put this into perspective a little bit this
is people in the community getting together people of power in the community getting together and being
persuaded by stag films yeah and other foolishness right I mean it's it's that stuff exist that's that's to me is
creepy as hell it's weird and but again for gayy it's way to get his membership enrollment up um and and to me it also
shows that some of these newcomers these newbies seem to be there in my opinion more for these crazy parties rather than
to actually be involved in the community itself yeah these animals are probably littering everywhere well it's around
the same time that John Wayne gasy Unleashed his new creation uh Pogo the clown he he he becomes a clown and I
know at different parts during his little clown experiment or whatever he was doing that
that he did go under different names but I believe Pogo the clown is the most accepted one that that he you know
fancied himself yeah most popular one but hey gayy put on your cup son put on your cup well uh he like I said he
Unleashed his new creation of pogo the clown G John Wayne gasy was a clown I'm going to unleash a punch to your nuts he
entertained children at parties and even volunteered at local hospitals you know
to try to cheer up the kids and and maybe it's just because what we know now about John Wayne gasy but looking at
those pictures I mean other than him being fat you know other than him being a a pudgy guy a
plus-size prison model he still he's still a creepy looking clown to me I don't know if it's again I don't know if
it's cuz we know about him or if well one of the things that I noticed was you know the mouth the way he painted the
mouth that most clowns paint circular mouths uh and his had points yeah he had points at the end uh yeah you'd think
but you know and look you'd think you know weight aside you'd think that maybe you know Santa Claus is Jolly M right so
that maybe it'd be a jolly clown but I think because of the points on the mouth is really kind of what gave it away and
also you know John Wayne had these um these pointy eyebrows mhm you know just that he he inherited so I think those
those two elements is kind of what makes Pogo a little creepo mhm well and before
we get to far down on another road let's go ahead and go through this portion of
John Wayne gas's life him and his wife start having marital problems and it's believed that some of this stemmed from
her picking up on gas's homosexual desires now we had said earlier that you know she was aware of his prison
sentence well he was aware she was aware of his bisexuality yeah and he's Pro she's probably aware of his version of
his prison sentence and why he was guilty right um but yeah she's aware that he he is bisexual but at the same
time you know she's also finding magazines around the house uh with lots of naked men in them uh books of about
gay fantasies and he's very casual nonchalant about kind of leaving these all over the house and then almost every
room of the house as well but at this well and I don't think that matters if it's you know homosexual thoughts or
just heterosexual thoughts I think if you're with somebody there's a lot of times that you'd be offended you know
like if you're just you know there's play boy magazines everywhere I think at some point your wife might go hey can
you just pick this up yeah you know you got to throw it in my face like this well you have to show respect for your
spouse as well as there's the children that are in the house as well you know you can't just you shouldn't just be
having these things laying around but at the same time he's also becoming a little more violent uh his his
personality is changing as far as she is concerned and at this point he's yelling
a lot uh he's he's even throwing furniture at times when he gets upset he's becoming his father yes this sort
of thing is what's going on and it eventually Carol would file for divorce uh the the couple's divorce became Final
in 1976 so yeah drinking is getting heavier he's becoming more violent uh he's having more sexual desires and this is
all going to come to a big flame yeah and the two of them have basically no romance between the two of them for
quite some time as well now I wanted to go down that road before we we got to this because we're going to want to go
down the romance road yeah okay I love you captain now we're going to start talking and introducing some new people
here uh but these are certainly key persons to this story and to this case and the first one that I want to
introduce is 17-year-old Johnny butovich I think he's been waiting all day to say
that name old butovich uh but anyway Johnny worked for John Wayne gayy that's my last name and in fact but in fact
they worked a lot of hours together and they even hung out together off of the clock uh at one point they are around
each other so much and so often that people started referring to them as Big John and Little John and Johnny or
little John to some was like most young men he was he was into cars he took great pride in his 68 Dodge uh not only
did he drive it and race it but he was always working on the vehicle as well and having this job allowed him to you
know work on this vehicle and spend some money on his car uh Johnny did remodeling work for gasy at PDM
contractors a position that he enjoyed a position that paid him well and you also
have your boss that's probably getting you booze and you couldn't get booze at the time mhm you know so everybody knows
you know when you're 1920 and you're trying to get some booze everybody knows they 21 or 22y old friend that would get
them booze right right you keep that contact close right even as close as they were however their their working
Rel relationship ended abruptly when gasy refused to pay Johnny for two weeks worth of work right um angered at gasy
uh and angered that he had withheld his pay Johnny went over to his boss's house
this was with two friends to try to scare gayy and to try to collect his money um when Johnny confronted gasy
about the paycheck gasy refused to pay him and now of course we have a large argument Johnny threatened that he was
going to tell the authorities that John Wayne gasy was not deducting taxes from the earnings uh gasy was enraged and he
screamed at him and we have this big fight going on but what ends up happening is Johnny and his friends
basically realized that there wasn't a whole lot that they could do about this situation and they have
you're kind of [ __ ] out of luck at this point yeah he's just not going to give
you any money MH and um at the end of the day they end up leaving Casey's house Johnny dropped off his friends at
their homes and he drove away and then he's never seen alive again but later on we'll have a odd explanation of this
story coming from gasy himself yes the next person we want to talk about is Michael bonan now he was about 17 years
old as well um and he disappeared in June of 76 and this is a situation where he was supposed to catch a train uh he
was going to meet his stepfather's brother at some location uh authorities are not certain that Michael ever got on
that train uh there but they know that he never made it to meet his stepfather's brother he just simply
disappeared he's not seen after that right and now in the same area we have a we have more boys going missing yes uh
the next boy is Billy Carol junor uh he's the kind of kid that was always getting into trouble um at the age of Oh
Billy at the age of nine um he was in a juvenile home for stealing a purse at the age of 11 he was caught with a gun
and he got into more trouble um now Billy in and out of trouble his whole life he spent most of his time on the
streets in uptown Chicago now at the age of about 16 Billy was making money by arranging meetings between teenage boys
an adult clientele for money that's definitely put him in a compromising position yes because I don't know if it
was because of Billy's little business that he had but he knew John Wayne gasey and ultimately just like Johnny and
Michael that we just spoke of Billy also disappeared suddenly this was on June 13th of 1976 Billy left his home and he
was never seen alive again do we have any other boys that went missing we have Gregory godzik um he actually had a job
with PDM Inc uh he worked for John Wayne gasy and he didn't mind the odd jobs that he was picking up or the work that
he would do but on December 12th 1976 uh Gregory dropped his date off at her home a girl that he had had a crush
on for some time and and been seeing her for a little bit and he drove off she says in the direction of his house um
but the following day police found Gregory's car the this was a 1966 Pontiac but Gregory was nowhere to be
found um he was he was 17 years old at the time in January of 1977 19-year-old John seek also disappeared much like the
other young men before him he had driven off in his 1971 Plymouth Satellite and he was never seen alive again but
interestingly enough a short while after the young man vanished another teenager
was picked up by police and a 1971 Plymouth Satellite while trying to leave a gas station without paying for the
gasoline right the young man was a one Michael Rossi and said that the man that he worked with could explain the
situation this being the situation with the vehicle uh the man that he worked with was John Wayne gasy and when police
met with gasy gasy explained to the police that Zeke had so sold him the car sold John way and gasy the car and that
John Zeke wanted to run away and he needed some money to take off and to get set up elsewhere so he sold John Wayne
gasy the car before he hitchhiked out of town gasy then went on to explain that he gave the car to his employee Michael
Rossi and trade for some labor so rather than paying him for a bunch of work that
Rossy did he ends up giving him the car well I don't think a lot of this stuff would have happened if he was like on a
sexual offender website you know yeah some kind registry right because all the stuff that happen in Iowa is not
carrying over to Chicago no so we don't really have that on his record and obviously cops are getting a little
suspicious at this point well and and the thing we've seen with gasy too is yeah there might be some people that are
aware of this sodomy charge that that he had in Iowa or aware that he spent some
time in prison because the thing with gasy is he liked to not only did he like to talk to people but he also liked to
lie and embellish stories about himself so I could see him possibly telling some
of these 17 18 year old boys that yeah you know you know what I'm a real man I've been to prison before you know um
oh what were you but now you got to answer the question well what were you in prison for and um I'm a real man
because I like real boys yeah but but then you get the John Wayne gasy version of why he was prison you know
embellishing and probably just lying about the situation uh we also have Robert Gilroy um he was an avid
Outdoorsman uh camper he loved horseback riding on September of 1977 uh he's 18 years old at this time
Gilroy was supposed to catch a bus with uh some friends to go horseback riding but he never shows up for this event now
Gilroy's father that's like the second one that was trying to catch a bus yeah Gilroy's father is a police Sergeant a
Chicago Police Sergeant at the time and he immediately began searching for his son and they un Unleashed a fullscale
investigation with big-time searches uh you know even though they did all this effort nothing turned up and when the
leads stopped coming in Robert Gilroy was still missing why this is all going on John Wayne gazy has an employee by
the name of David crra right well according to the documentary the guy's name is David crra now let's talk about
this for a little bit go ahead cuz you know we both watched a bunch of Doos on him and uh there's just some facts that
are just not lining up right some of the names some of some of the stories are the same but some of the names aren't
the same well you know what I wonder about that Captain is when you when you watch some of these documentaries okay
first of all a a John Wayne gasey documentary there's a whole batch of them out there I mean there's a ton of
them out there but but they're typically what like 40 minutes to maybe 1 hour long this is a much longer and much
necessary to be longer story to tell than 40 minutes or an hour long there's a whole lot more of a story here and the
thing that I worry about with some of these documentaries we've seen it in other ones you know that we see on
Netflix and Amazon Prime and like that sometimes they lump some of these stories together right and so names get
miss you know they get mashed together timelines get a little bit blurry um so so this story could be coming from David
or it could be coming from it could be coming from I used the name Michael Rossi earlier now the thing here is
Captain um you know the story with gasy gets even more convoluted because he lived in Iowa for a while and then he
lived in Chicago for a while and a lot of of the stuff that he did he did in both places in both locations right so
that makes it more confusing but when you watch there's one documentary in particular where they name this
character David crra now mind you he is it's one of those situ you know they put
the light behind him he's sitting in a chair his face is kind of darkened out you can't see his face real well and
then they just kind of they flash this name David crra well his story goes like this so whether it's David or if it's
this Rossy character or some other name altogether right the the story is that the crawl space mhm he is originally
hired to dig trenches in this crawl space he doesn't know why now what can happen in like a half basement if you
have a cross space you can dig out that cross space and then make your basement a full basement that's a very tough
thing to do but you can do that so he doesn't really know why he's digging these trenches in this crawl space but
he does there there actually depending on who you talk to there's a few different stories as to why gasy wanted
these trenches dug in this crawl space right one of the stories being that they they were going to insert some kind of
pipes that were going to go down and they needed the trenches for pipes the other story being that there was a foul
odor that was in the house and that gasy was telling people that it was coming from this crawl space because it would
typically get saturated with water and would just kind of sit in there and it would just it would unleash this foul
odor throughout the entire home and he was trying to rid the house of this of this structural problem that was going
on right so this kid is you know he's like 16 years old 17 years old digging these trenches in the crawl space of uh
John Wayne gas's house eventually he rents a room from him so he would come home and and he
he'd lived there for a short period of time work working for for John and doing maybe probably working in the community
for other people as well but one night he comes home and I this just I think super creepy he comes home and Jon is
sitting there in his Pogo outfit M you know dressed full clown get up and he's drinking and he's like hey join me let's
have some drinks let's smoke some pot and gayy was a big by this point he's probably a pretty big drinker um you
know I'd heard stories that he would drink full glasses of vodka and things like that right so he's he's pretty
wasted already he's lit and David is drinking with him and he brings out these handcuffs and he's kind of showing him a
trick like how here's how you put on the handcuffs and here's how you get out of
it like remember how we talked about like when you're a kid you have the fake handcuffs mhm and then you have these
little like little switch on him on the side so you can just push that little lever and it opens up so we kind of
talked about that he probably had two sets of handcuffs and he probably had a trick handcuff like here see watch me I
put on the handcuffs and look I can get out of it m you try them on so when he goes to try them on he can't get out of
it and he said well how do you get out of this thing he goes well you got to know the trick he goes well what's the
trick he said well the trick is you got to have a key right and he starts laughing so he's sitting there and his
full clown get up right just laughing like a little kid like I got you I got you and now at this
point he's poking him poking him I got you you can't get out just acting like a kind of a crazy
person so this individual that is tied up he then says you know you got to let me out you know and he's still being
nice at this point they're still kind of playful yeah John's being weird dancing
around with the Poo outfit on but this guy eventually says hey look you got to let me out or I'm going to kick your ass
mhm and this sets gasey into a rage right M so now he is fighting basically for his life against gayy but
he's in handcuffs and he basically is able to because gasy is so intoxicated he's able to knock gayy over
grab the key run to the room that he's running get himself out he leaves and a couple days later moves out um of of
John Wayne gas's house MH the crazy thing to me is could you imagine a a big you know gay he wasn't tall but he was a
bigger guy he was he was short and stocky right but still a lot of mass and he's drunk and he goes into a rage and
that's not the creepy part the creepy part is you're in handcuffs yeah you know I don't mind uh punching you in
your face John W gazy if if you know but if my hands are tied behind my back I'm
[ __ ] out of luck you know good luck fighting that fight yeah it's just every time I hear that story I've heard it
maybe three or four times but every time I hear it it's just it always just hands get a little sweaty Well here
here's another creepy story for you here captain and this took place in May of 1977 78 I'm sorry uh Chicago Illinois a
man by the name of Jeff ringal now uh he had recently returned from a vacation to
Florida he decided to visit an area called New Town um it's a popular area of Chicago uh because he wanted to check
out some of the many popular bars they had there as well as disco clubs in that area now while bar bar hopping and
walking through the area he sees a black Oldsmobile now inside the vehicle is a heavy set driver and the driver leaned
out from the window and he's complimenting uh this young man on his unseasonably you know how unseasonably
tan he is and this Sparks up a conversation um and they continued with some small talk and eventually the
driver then asked if Jeff wanted to smoke a joint and ride around in his car and they would just ride around town and
smoke a couple joints well this sounded like a good idea to Jeff so he hopped in
the car this sounds like an awful idea they drive off uh they're talking they're smoking driving around when all
of a sudden the heavy set driver attacks Jeff he grabbed him and quickly shoved a
rag over his face now the rag was doused with chloroform Jeff lost Consciousness
now Jeff was kind of going in and out of Consciousness for quite some time at one
point while he was awake he could see street signs and you know the car's still moving and he's trying to see
these street signs and try to figure out where the car is going maybe where he's
being taken to well he doesn't know this area right and and of course he would only be awake for a
short period of time for a short little spurts of time before blacking out again
on one of these times that he came to the stranger again grabbed him and covered up his face with this chloroform
soaked Rag and he passed out again at some point Jeff remembers being inside of a home and the driver was there and
they both are naked at one point Jeff remembered seeing on the floor several several dildos and the stranger [ __ ] was
threat threatening him and telling him how he was going to use them uh Jeff no was viciously raped and tortured for
hours um and but thank God that he had been drugged and knocked out for most of it now the next morning Jeff awoke from
uh from these blackouts but but when he wakes up he's now fully clothed and he's
propped up against the statue in Chicago's Lincoln Park he was in in a lot of pain an
amazing amount of pain and he went to the hospital where he ended up staying there for 6 days Jesus Christ now during
this Hospital stay Jeff reported the abduction and the rape to police but he could only provide the police with a
little information regarding the attack because he was blacking out over and over again MH um he he could recall
called the vehicle a black Oldsmobile he gave them a description of the heavy set man that was driving the
vehicle and he could tell them basically useless information about some of the details of the inside of the house like
the the color of the carpeting or patterns on the carpeting right you're in the city of Chicago yeah and here's
the thing this is this you know you're in a whole lot of pain you're in the hospital for 6 days that should explain
to most of us how how beaten up this guy was he's in the hospital for 6 days and you're
giving this report and you can you you probably mad at yourself because you can only remember little bits of information
and the police basically they they outwardly tell Jeff that they were not hopeful that they would be able to find
the guy that did this let alone convict him of anything because because really they didn't have any information or much
to confirm who this abductor could be Jeff suffered several skin lacerations Burns and he also suffered
from permanent liver damage believed to be caused from the the chloroform and of course he suffered
severe emotional trauma as well uh obviously but he was he was fortunate enough to be alive because what what
Jeff didn't know was that the man who attacked and raped him well not many of the people escaped that man and very few
victims of his ever survived now here's one crazy thing though after Jeff got out of the hospital and after he was
able to kind of shake off some of this trauma and get over the fear of the whole thing that had just happened he
decided he was going to go back to that same side of town because it was kind of
like a party side of town it was it was place where people you know smoke a little dope maybe you pick up a girl or
pick up a guy whatever and he thought you know what I'm going to go back to that side of town because he had this he
had this black Oldsmobile vehicle that he that he got into he had the image of that thing
tattooed on his brain he knew well he probably had the the you know the vision of whoever attacked him MH you know just
if I can see this guy again I I can catch him yeah and he ultimately went back to that side of town several times
uh until he ended up spotting the vehicle that he believed was the one that abducted him right and he wrote
down the license plate and he was later able to provide that license plate number to the Chicago PD there's a lot
more that we have to get to tomorrow the complete unraveling of this psychopath John Wayne gasey so join us back here
tomorrow in the garage and for everything true crime go to True Crime garage r.com and until next time be good
be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter at Crystal Farms we're thankful for the
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John Wayne Gacy /// Part 1 /// 105

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John Wayne Gacy was liked by most who knew him. He was a sharp businessman who had spent his time building up his contracting company, hosting elaborate parties, and entertaining children at hospitals. People thought of him as a generous, friendly, and hard-working man. However, there was another side that few had ever witnessed... Or at least lived to tell about. For several years John Wayne Gacy viciously tortured, raped and murdered more than thirty young men, who would later be discovered in his home and in the local river. This is the story of a community leader who was called the most hated man in America. He also has earned the name "the killer clown".

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Brief Summary

John Wayne Gacy's early life, crimes, and capture are discussed, revealing his dark history and the series of murders he committed in Chicago.

Key points

True Crime Garage Introduction. Nick introduces the show and thanks listeners for their support.
Gacy's Troubled Childhood. Exploring John Wayne Gacy's health issues and family dynamics during his youth.
Gacy's Disturbing Behavior. Revealing John Wayne Gacy's troubling actions as a teenager involving theft of undergarments.
John Wayne Gacy's Dark Secrets. Gacy's life takes a dark turn as rumors about his sexuality and behavior surface.
Indictment on Sodomy Charges. In 1968, Gacy faces serious legal troubles as he is indicted for sodomy.
Life After Prison. Gacy is released after 18 months, aiming to prove himself but haunted by his past.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

He is charged with murder.

Breaking news about John Wayne Gacy

5:18WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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