Hae Min Lee /// Part 1 /// 696 | Forensic Files

[Music] in tresto suku tril volaran tablets is the number one heart failure brand
prescribed by cardiologists and has helped over 1 million people with heart failure it's a prescription medicine
that treats adults with long- lasting chronic heart failure and works better when the heart cannot pump a normal
amount of blood to the body don't take in tresto if pregnant it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby don't take in
tresto with an Ace inhibitor or Alice Kieran or if you've had angio edema with an ace or ARB don't take with Alice
Kieran or within 36 hours of taking and Ace inhibitor the most serious side effects are angioedema low blood
pressure kidney problems or high blood potassium angioedema is swelling of your face lips tongue and throat that may
cause death if it causes difficulty breathing get emergency help ask your doctor about Ino to learn more visit
support. entresto.com or call 833 446 6699 for pricing visit ino.com backc if you can't afford your
medication novaris may be able to help when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands
at winning prices and with special financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your
mattress purchase helps give the gift of better sleep to children in need and US
Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today and make every snooze count financing is
subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for details in 1970 two University students who had recently
fallen in love were murdered in an apartment in Columbus Ohio their names were Mary Petri and Bill Sprout the
crime was so brutal it drew comparisons to the Manson family murders That Shook the country less than one year earlier
police received hundreds of tips but within a few months the case went cold now a reporter and the sisters of the
two victims work together piecing together new forensic evidence and they are told by Columbus Police this case
can still be solved 50 years later listen to Mary and Bill in Ohio Cold Case wherever you get your
[Music] podcast [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who has the power to
help you believe again here is the captain it's good to see you and it's good to be seen thanks for listening
thanks for telling a [Music] friend this week we are very happy to be featuring day glow Vibes by the
hardworking folks over Mast Landing Brewing Company this is a double dry hopped double India p ale wow someone
really likes to double things up over at Mast Landing so a ddh double IPA if you
will 8.1% ABV this one is not boozy at all but it is full bodied and a little pungent garage grade three and a half
bottle caps out of five and let's give some thanks and praise to our friends for helping us with this week's beer fun
first up we have Jen vau from Queens New York and also helping us fill up the fridge this week we have Joselyn doer in
Grapevine Texas everybody we mentioned they went to our website and clicked on the Pint glass and that helped us out
with this week's beer run and for that we thank you yeah BW are you in beer run go to the website store and get you some
get you some swag get you some true crime garage swag it's a great way to look good feel good and support the show
and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
[Music] [Applause] [Music] crime L you [Music] [Applause] [Music] hymon Lee was born in 1980 and after
immigrating to the United States with her mother and brother in 1992 she spent most of her teen years
years growing up in Baltimore County Maryland hay was a great student she was incredibly smart with many friends and
played lacrosse and field hockey hey attended the magnet program at her school woodlon high school this
is where and when she and fellow classmate Adnan Sayed really became acquainted Adnan is a popular student
athlete as well and the two H it off and started dating sometime in early 1998 the relationship becomes pretty
serious as far as high school relationship standards go the two go to prom together November
1st 1998 hey breaks off the relationship according to ha's diary Adnan does not take this well the relationship then
becomes something of an on again and off again relationship and it appears the two officially and finally break up just
before Christmas 1998 January 1st 1999 hey is interested in a new boy and it's an older boy from her work his name
is Dawn and the two go on their first date together on January 13th 1999 hymon Lee is last seen at
school then at about 3:30 p.m. that day Hay's family becomes concerned when she fails to pick up her little cousin later
she is reported missing less than a month later Hay's body is discovered partially buried in
leakin park in late February police subpoena adnan's cell phone records and begin
questioning the persons listed on adon's call list on February 28th 1999 Baltimore Police interviewed Jay
Wilds a guy who says that he is very good friend with Adnan Jay tells police that Adnan showed him Hay's lifeless
body in the trunk of her car after Adnan asks Jay he helps Adnan bury the body in
leakin park in September of 1999 Jay Wilds signs a plea deal agreeing to testify that he helped Adon dispose of
the body in February of 2000 Adnan Sayed is convicted of first-degree murder then in
2014 this closed case would change dramatically with the launch of a podcast called
serial the serial podcast featured the hmon Lee murder case and took a closer look at the case for and against Adnan
SED new interest in the case led to special appeals in the Maryland courts since then the murder conviction has has
been vacated charges dropped conviction reinstated and appealed again this week we check in with our friends Brett and
Alice from the prosecutors podcast for a discussion about the Haymon Lee murder investigation the case for and against
Adnan Sayed and where this very complicated case sits today this is true crime [Music]
garage [Music] [Applause] [Music] scar [Applause] scar Alice and Brett two of the things
that that I thought you did incredibly well with your coverage of this very complicated case was to be one to be
very expansive on on every different aspect of this case the the one aspect that I thought was so necessary with
your expansiveness and how much you go into great detail was the timeline because on serial it it's a whole
different packaged presentation than what you get when I tuned into the prosecutors for your coverage of this
complicated case where they're being a little more theatrical they're kind of bouncing around a little bit and the
timeline's Not So Clear in fact the timeline they give is a very short very brief almost a glimpse of the true
timeline and you guys gave a very detailed and expansive timeline obviously we don't have time to
go through that here today because I think to get through that timeline it took what two three fulllength episodes
that you guys did and what I want to hone in on for we we got a bit of a uh a complicated situation here ourselves
because we're going to have a lot of people that will listen to these episodes and there's going to be a small
portion of that audience that has no clue of the case that we're talking about so they're hearing about this case
for the first time and then we'll have the large majority that are well aware and have listened to serial maybe even
had gone back and listened to it a second or third time because it was so good but for you and we'll start with uh
Alice because she's the the only lady in the room sorry Captain what were some of
the key Parts in the timeline for you yeah thank you guys for um you know having us on and talking
about this I think it's really important to talk about the timeline and here's the thing about the way we structure all
our episodes we always have a timeline and this case was no exception and the reason it's no exception is that when
you lay out the facts and you lay them out in context and in relativity to each other a lot of the story comes through
whether you are leaning one way or the other the timeline is an incredibly important part of any type of case and
we always tell our listeners we want you to think for yourselves we want you to go to the primary sources and to um
engage with the evidence uh and don't have someone just tell you what it is and part of that is knowing where each
of the pieces of the timeline each piece of the case fits together in relation to
another thing especially I know that cell phone calls are a huge huge deal in this case and once you put all of these
cell phone pings within the timeline and see where it fits within the story it tells a much different story than
cherry-picking pieces and bits of the timeline or pieces and bits of the cell phone ping so I think one very important
thing that we do in the time line as we do in all our cases is to put kind of those cell phone ping which have drawn a
lot of controversy from all sides of you know the this this entire kind of story
um but puts them into context of where they fall and how certain stories fall apart when you look at the Timeline
based on these cell phone pings yeah and I'll just add to that I mean I've been listening to y' show for a long time and
you guys often do a timeline as well and I think you probably see the same thing
we do when when you actually lay out when events occur and you lay out what's happening in relation to other things a
lot of times by by the time you finish the timeline you actually have a pretty good idea of the story even if you
haven't gone that deep into the evidence and I think you talk about cereal cereal
is an amazing piece of entertainment and one of the reasons is because it kind of keeps you guessing
the whole time and we always find that we're we want to be entertaining but we also want to be enlightening and the way
to do that is not to hide the ball for people so we always want to lay out a timeline and obviously the events of
that day are important but so are the events that surround it when you look at their relationship they dated for a long
time they broke up a couple of times they got back together they had broken up in early December but then at
Christmas they're giving each other gifts and you have to wonder if it wasn't in maybe even both of their minds
that this is going to be a breakup like the last two this is going to be one way
to get back together but then hey Falls kind of head over heels for Dawn and a week before this
all happens she's changing her instant messenger profile to talk about how much she loves Don and how her job is to
stare into his baby blues and her her number one thing is being his girlfriend very public thing particularly at that
time in 1999 and the kind of thing that you could imagine M came is is a surprise to Adon even if he knew that
she was dating this other guy she'd been dating him for a week and all of a sudden
she's completely replaced him with this guy and I think when you look at that timeline you realize that the events of
January 13th sometimes you think oh that was a month after they broke up but not
really not really not if you compare it to other sort of emotionally charge events that are occurring with this case
being so polarizing especially on social media did you guys have any hesitation to cover it that's a great
question it is a polarized case I think um the reason it took us you know uh several years to to cover it was not so
much because we were afraid of blowback or anyone um being angry with us because
people will be angry at you no matter what you do more so it's because we didn't want to just um pile on this case
has obviously been covered by a lot of different content creators and we've always said we don't want to just be
another voice in the wi for any case there are a lot of very very worthy cases to cover and um we like to do you
know as thorough research as possible and that takes time as well and this no doubt because of the trials that have
occurred because of a lot of trial transcripts and you know content that's out there there's a lot of things that
you have to digest in order to do the case justice so part of the reason it took us a while to cover it it was the
amount of research it um required but also wanting to make sure that when we did cover it it was to add value in the
case and not just repeat what's already been said before and we knew everyone came out there'd be people who are upset
about it I mean that's just the way it is and that's fine and you know we've never shied away from controversy and
we've certainly never changed our position based on what's going to be the more popular View and I will say this
the thing that when we when we started to record this and and first episode and we're getting ready I was really nervous
about it but I was nervous because I felt like we owed it to we owed it to Haye and we owed it to Adon to get it
right and to be as straightforward as we could be with it we're prosecutors we look at this from a different
perspective but we did not come into this thinking we want to make we want to make sure that it looks like Adon s is
guilty we want to support our our friends in the prosecution team in Baltimore whatever we didn't do that we
were always going to go through the file and it's lengthy it takes a lot of time
to go through the entire case File to read the defense file to read the appeals in this case there's a lot of
information out there beyond what you hear in in podcast that took a lot of time but once once we got through that a
story emerged from for us that we were going to share with our audience and we were going to do that whether people
were happy about the outcome or not that's one thing that I was very curious about as prosecutors let's step aside
from the podcast world for moment and just go into prosecutor world but you know on True Crime garage we we are so
invested in in the investigation or The Manhunt finding out who did it and then and then apprehending them that's the
the parts that we really dive into and we really want to cover and go through that that's where our interests lie but
as a prosecutor by the time you guys catch your case they've already told you this is
who we think did it and here's a whole bunch of reasons why so where an investigator when they catch a case they
are often trying to sort out exactly what happened and then even in some jurisdictions in a lot of a lot of
jurisdictions uh hopefully one day maybe all of them that police protocol becomes
okay this is this is a homicide and we we will investigate it as such until the evidence proves otherwise but when a
prosecutor catches their case as said they they already have either grand jury or police telling you this is who we
think did it and here's the the evidence to why so how do how do you guys look at
a case when you first pick it up and and what do do you reinvestigate everything
that was done do you do you tear through everything that's done and and and let the evidence lead you to what you
believe the outcome to be or do you immediately start building your case against the person that they've told you
I think this is actually a place where we have a we have an advantage because you're right I mean there are some cases
and Alice and I have been involved in them where you're with your investigators pretty early on and you
really are sort of directing the investigation those are a lot of fun but a lot of times you're you're 100% right
one day somebody walks into your office they have a file they plop it on your desk and they say hey we think this guy
did X Y and Z let me know if there's enough you know we're ready to we're ready to charge this guy and our job
when you're a prosecutor is not unlike what you're doing when you're a podcaster you take that file and you're
looking through it and your as we often say your ethical obligation is not just to prosecute and is not just to win it
is to ensure that Justice is being done and that the person you are Prosecuting is guilty and that there is the evidence
to convict them so when you look through that file you're looking for what are the elements of this offense do we
actually prove that how do we know this happened what are we relying on what is our evidence can you trust this
eyewitness why didn't they test for fingerprints is there any DNA like you're going through you're thinking
through all the holes in your case for several reasons number one because you want to get it right number two because
you know one day a defense attorney is going to look at that same file and they're going to be looking for those
holes so that's what we do in our job and when in in a in the podcasting world it's the same thing you get this file
and you read through it and you're looking for holes and you're looking for what did the police miss or what are
other people missing who are criticizing what what is the defense making too much
of what are they getting wrong what are they getting right where are the weaknesses and where are the where are
the strengths and I think that is an advantage because we do it every day in our jobs it helps us actually when we
look at these cases to really break them down and figure out whether or not they
hold up and for those who are not familiar with this case I'm going to give a little bit of a spoiler alert
here but if you were to go back and listen to serial you learn very quickly into the very first episode that this
story is going to be about the murder of a young woman hmon Lee who had her whole
life ahead of her she was very bright young woman making moves to to further her experience and go off to college and
probably would have went on to do great things however she is killed and her ex-boyfriend Adon Sayed is convicted
originally you know he's he's charged and they build a case against him and then he's later convicted so much of his
the case against Adnan as as it were presented by the podcast serial was that they were able to convict him heavily in
part due to Jay Wild's testimony against him now how would you guys you two as prosecutors handle a situation like this
because your your main witness in this case is a not credible and B not even likable like what what is the strategy
when you are dealt this card in your attempt to convict the accused so that that's a really good question and of
course Jay wilds and his changing story are uh you know endless endless fod for conversation about this
case and one thing that we emphasize in all of our episodes is that you are given your witnesses as you are we don't
coach our Witnesses we prep them and know what they're doing but know what they are U want to say and if there are
inconsistencies we pick those apart and the reality is that you will always have
witnesses who have differing stories because memories fade people get nervous on the stand they may be trying to
minimize their part in whatever uh whatever story they're trying to tell because we all put ourselves number one
and honestly the type of witness that Jay Wilds is on the stand for Adon saad's trial is not unlike most
Witnesses in general whether they are lying or not and so this case is not out of the ordinary with respect to a major
witness having changing stories it's something you have to deal with it is something that you certainly turn over
to the other side so that it is all completely fair game and fodder for cross-examination and the reason you
have it all out for the jury to hear is they hear all of the fodder for cross-examination they are
cross-examined and you compare against all the other facts in this case now Adon Sayad was not convicted based on
just one person's testimony it was a long trial there was a lot of evidence that came in that had nothing to do with
Jay Wilds but the jury gets to listen to All of the versions of Jay's story hear
him cross-examined hear him taken apart and also hear all of the other Witnesses
who are called to trial as well as the experts and the evidence put against it and the jury is charged with weighing
whether they believe Jay or any of the witnesses for that matter and weigh whether this man should be convicted
this is all incredibly important and why we say it's important for you to read uh
everyone who's interested in in this case to read the trial transcript because you begin to see that there is
no hiding the ball there can't be any hiding of the ball it is all out for the jury to consider which was done in this
case and one of the things that you do when you have witnesses like that and you really do often have them because as
we always say it'd be great if your best witness in a drug conspiracy was the little old lady in the choir from the
church but usually it's not going to be a lot of times your Witnesses initially when they interact with the police will
lie to them sometimes they lie us I mean we've been in the room when a witness broke and admitted what we knew to be
true because we had independent evidence and from that point for they were they were honest but they certainly got
cross-examined about that at trial and what you have to do is you have to take the other evidence and look at it and
with Jay Wilds he has a story that is inconsistent in many places but is consistent in a lot of places and we lay
out those consistencies essentially Jay's story is that Adon the day of the murder told him to take his cell phone
in his car to pick him up later that he he was going to to kill hay and there are cell phone number one he absolutely
did that there's no question there's no there's no dispute that he gave Jay his cell phone in his car there's also
Witnesses who heard overheard Adon Sayad that morning tell hey that he would need
a ride because he didn't have his car because it was in the shop which isn't true and Adon actually would tell police
officer that very same day that he was supposed to get a ride with hay but by the time he showed up she had already
left so he missed it so things like that are backing up this story that Jay tells
Jay knew the location of Hay's car which up to that point had not been found and
when you look at the location of the car and you look at those cell phone pings that night there's an outgoing call to
Jin puser that pings over where the car was found the call to Jen puser was to meet them so that she could pick up Jay
and take him home things like that are backing up his story they're supporting his story
Adon even says he was with Jay when he got the call from the police that hey was missing so there's just there are so
many things about Jay's story that aren't in dispute facts that you just can't deny and so even if there are
inconsistencies and there always will be the overarching story one that by the way he told to Jen puser that night and
that she actually told to the police first she's the first person to tell the story to the police not Jay so you know
if you think Jay is somehow being Guided by the police to to frame Adon well that
doesn't make any sense because they would have had to have done that with J with JY first and when JY tells that
story her lawyer sitting with her and her mom sitting with her which is a much better situation than Jay who did not
have an attorney when you combine all those things together you start to think yeah there's some inconsistencies
there's some problems but we can bolster the things that matter and we can surround it with all these other facts
and at the end of the day the jury is going to believe look I don't know that everything he said was true but what I
do know is is true is it ad not did it this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get match with a
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find find your bright spot this season
with betterhelp visit betterhelp.com garod to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
hp.com garage Ino sukua tril volaran tablets is the number one heart failure brand
prescribed by cardiologists and has helped over 1 million people with heart failure it's a prescription medicine
that treats adults with long- lasting chronic heart failure and works better when the heart can not pump a normal
amount of blood to the body don't take in tresto if pregnant it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby don't take in
tresto with an Ace inhibitor or Alice Kiran or if you've had angio edema with an ace or ARB don't take with Alice
Kieran or within 36 hours of taking an Ace inhibitor the most serious side effects are angio edema low blood
pressure kidney problems or high blood potassium angioedema is swelling of your face lips tongue and throat that may
cause death if it causes difficulty breathing get emergency help ask your doctor about in tresto to learn more
visit support. ino.com or call 83344 66699 for pricing visit ino.com if you can't afford your medication
novaris may be able to help is it possible to predict the unpredictable can 3D printed life-size
organ models help to map out complex surgeries ahead of time is it possible it already is right here Mayo Clinic you
know where to go Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact
I've been using their app to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words but actually having
real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday
deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen on diving deep into a
new language check out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger [Music] so let's stay on Jay Wilds for a little
bit a lot of people believe Jay Wilds lies about everything and that he had ulterior motive for placing the blame on
Adon a lot of people also believe that he made a plea deal with law enforcement before giving them any information well
I mean I think people have speculated several things about why Jay may have made up quot unquote made up the story
Jay was someone with a criminal record he was someone who sold drugs he had been involved in altercations with the
police before his lawyer which he did not get until much later than he should have had one and this is something we
point out when we talk about our in our episodes if you want to point to some police misconduct some real police
misconduct Jay's second interview he should have had an attorney he asked for an attorney by that point he'd
incriminated himself in this murder as as an accomplice and they didn't give him one and when he did get an attorney
it was someone who had been a public defender who had actually been a prosecutor and a public defender and had
gone in private practice who I think was the best thing that ever happened to Jay
because she was a really good lawyer and I think she recognized some of those issues and was able to get him a pretty
good deal now one thing I'll say about that the deal he made was he would plead guilty to accessory after the fact is a
very serious felony and you know he was looking it up to five years I think everybody thought he would get time but
I think if you read between the lines what actually happened there was some of the things that had happened when the
police were talking to him led the judge to go ahead and give him probation instead it's a good deal um but I think
it also helps Jay that at least according to the story he tells his involvement in the crime is all after
hey is is deceased I think this is very important because for so long when I looked into this case I thought well of
course Jay is lying and he has reason to lie and he's not going to face any consequence but that's not true he was
going to face consequences for his actions and for his involvement in this murder case now that's 100% right I mean
the first time they bring him in it's not like he sitting there with his lawyer and has a you know an immunity
agreement on the table he he walks right into and this is not unusual either I mean we see this all the time and I'm
always surprised by the number of people who in their first conversation with the
police will admit to everything and then they get a lawyer involved and the lawyer's like man I wish you just asked
for me earlier right and Jay that first interview he walks right into this accessory charge and he was
looking at at a at a good amount of time the first time he's told this story so yeah you're you're absolutely right that
deal that he ended up making wasn't made until m later when he finally did get a
lawyer frankly much later than he should have and I think if anybody would have had a complaint had let's say he had
been he had gone to trial and been convicted I think he actually would have had a pretty good argument on appeal
that a lot of his statements were taken in violation of his constitutional rights now that doesn't help Adnan sad
at all because Adnan can't defend his constitutional rights but they're you know do not do not do not mistake our
sort of General defense for prosecution in this case to mean that there weren't some some real misconduct going on there
absolutely was which is probably not surprising to most people who are familiar with Baltimore it's just it
didn't really involve Adon sad so much as some of the things the police did when getting Jay's story were were in
violation of his rights well and let's stay on that a little bit there for a second with the with the conspiracy
theory that the Baltimore Police wanted to do a frame job on and on Sayed and that they actually knew the location of
the vehicle the missing Hayman Lee's missing vehicle and that they they kept that
purposely had Jay lead them to the vehicle even though they again according to the conspiracy theory already knew of
its location or may have placed it there through and through Blue Blood right here and that's not going to change
however we've covered cases in the Baltimore area to see obvious clear signs of corruption with certain pockets
of that Police Department um and other politicians in in that that city as well so if it if it were to be the strangest
of conspiracies that would were to be true Baltimore's a likely venue for that but what would
be the motiv I don't understand what the motivation would be be or where that that conspiracy the seed of that
conspiracy theory even comes from it's a really good question and there is a lot
to unpack there and look we we are the first ones we we'd like to think that we are the first ones to call out police
misconduct when we see it it absolutely does exist and we'd like to think and we
do think in our experience that it is a small percentage of what there is but let's talk about this particular case
and the Baltimore Police here in order for this to have been a massive frame job conspiracy there are
so many things you'd have to believe that don't make any sense in this case so let's just take the two people that
you have at the story when the police are trying to decide who to frame you have Jay Wilds who has a criminal record
he's a black man living in Baltimore who's already had scuffles with the police he's known to be a drug dealer he
is often around people who um are in trouble with the law he himself has described himself at this time as a
criminal element of Baltimore so he views himself as a criminal and then you have on the other hand ad nsed an honor
student who regularly attends mosque with his family is involved in his mosque um and he is in the honor classes
with the rest of the honor students applying for colleges likely going to get into college a smart boy a very
popular uh student at woodlon high school he is the prom Prince you know he's not only liked
by students uh he's liked by teachers he is really kind of the shining example of
what a what you'd want in a student so between these two people it really boggles my mind why the police would
choose to frame the honor student who has absolutely no criminal record over the the person who is known to have a
criminal record who you know continues to to be involved in the selling of drugs that they would choose Adon to be
the one to frame and then on top of all that why would they have the person that
this entire frame job relies on would be the person who is least credible someone
who does have a criminal record and if in fact they wanted their entire frame job to rely on Jay Wilds someone who in
the court of law as we've already seen is going to have a lot of credibility issues why would it be that the main
point of their frame job would be to have him lead them to the car when they've already put out a bolo be on the
lookout for every police officer to be on the lookout for Hay's car for weeks and they're not able to find it I mean
those of us who work in law enforcement or law enforcement adjacent recognize that even if you're alleging cons even
if you're alleging you know corruptness within a department there are many individual actors within a department
usually a a bad actor is not going to be an entire department think about all the
people you can barely get people to you know turn in their time sheets on time much less all be part of this big
conspiracy where there's a be on the lookout for Hay's car and no one happen to accidentally slip up and actually
find the car if you're the police and say you know be on the lookout but don't actually be on the lookout because we're
going to have our criminal element of Baltimore find the car for us so that he can be our main witness against this
honor student I I mean I mean that is that is such a a difficult and also frankly stupid frame job don't put out
the bolo pretend to put out a bolo but don't actually put out a bolo it wasn't a pretend bolo they they really did have
these announcements out to all law enforcement and not just their own Department across jurisdictions to be on
the lookout for this car you'd have to be coordinating this Frame job across multiple jurisdictions when we know that
it's really difficult to have all of your jurisdictions row in a line we talk about this
uh a lot of times when there are jurisdictional fights between the state and the local and the federal um law
enforcement agencies you're looking at this times 10 across basically the Eastern Seaboard I'm not saying
that police corruption doesn't exist but this police corruption would be one beyond the imagination of any Hollywood
writer and when you look at the facts of what is happening in this case it is so
incredibly unlikely and also kind of the worst way to go about a frame job because if they knew where Hay's car was
they took they you would have to believe that they took this incredibly risky risky step of leaving it there for weeks
unprocessed not looking for evidence or by the way if you know where where her car is why not just plant
something of Adon in there that is a great way to frame someone to put their DNA in there or to put you know a report
card or whatever in her car instead you're going to have to go through this you know hoop jumping exercise of having
your witness Jay Wilds lead you to a car where you knew it was and you could have
actually planted much better evidence to frame him frame Adon if that's what you
wanted to do I like what you said there Alice about risking leaving the vehicle there okay look God bless B Baltimore
and the good people of Baltimore but it is not the safest the the city in in America and it is certainly a city that
has higher rates of crime and to where where do they when he does when Jay does lead the police to the vehicle what part
of Baltimore is that vehicle found it's just east of uh leakin Park it's pretty close to lean Park which as everybody
knows in Baltimore and anybody seen the wire is where everybody dumps the body so not necessarily the best part of
Baltimore right so to and and they put out the Bolos to be on the Lookouts a couple of times leading up to
him leading them to the vehicle and this is over the course of a couple weeks correct yes they they were looking for
the car since she disappeared but when they found her body they really picked it up including asking for the entire
Eastern seab board to look for it right and so if you know that the vehicle is there and you're going to build a lot of
your case around that vehicle you in that City you're running the risk of somebody's jacking that car stealing
your stealing your evidence right like stealing stealing your your what you're going to one build your case on and
two give some credibility to your already questionable witness that you're going to eventually put on the stand and
Nick that's a great Point not only are the police looking for it you know this this case was on the news it was parked
you know like in an Alleyway what if so you let's say you have all of your police law enforcement on board to not
call it in even though there's a bolo they know where the car is but not a single police officer calls it in how do
you prevent all of the individual passer buyers who are not part of law enforcement who may have accidentally
seen it and think oh my goodness I I just saw that the police are looking for this car and I this is my daily route to
work I'm just a private citizen I'm gonna call it in you know that that is a huge risk especially if we're talking
about weeks of letting this car sit out in the open it wasn't in a garage it was
in an Alleyway you know not a lot of people travel this Alleyway but it was still out in the open so you're facing a
lot of risk that a you know a good Samaritan who's not part of law enforcement will accidentally call The
Car in and just two other points I want to make because we've been talking about
the evidence that would be lost and I think that's a huge point and it makes you wonder if they wanted to do that all
they had to do was process the car not tell anybody they had it and then use it have him lead you to the lot where it
was it's not there but it's because you've already claimed it you could have done that the second thing is they don't
know what they're going to find in it you know what if they do this old frame job with with Jay and they go out to the
car and they open the front door and there's a serial killer driver's license sitting in the in the driver's seat he
he lost it and now they're like well shoot what do we do now we got this whole frame job going and here's the
evidence of the person who actually did it and the last thing talk about cell phone pings if you assume that the
police either knew where it was or planted it there so he could go find it it just so happens to be exactly where
the cell phone pinged when Adon and Jay were together when Jay is going back to talk to Jen and one thing we
know for certain is that at the point the police talked to Jay for the first time they did not have that information
they would not have known that so that is either an incredible coincidence or or something else is going on with this
Frame job I've always struggled with this case whether or not Adon was innocent or guilty it's a red light case
for me and I think one of the issues in this case is because there's a time period where she goes missing and a time
period where she's found and the information we get from the eyewitnesses becomes a little blurry it becomes a
little confusing so it's always a problem everybody talks about this you guys talk about it on your show the more
time between when someone goes missing when the police go into action when a body's found when a suspect is arrested
when Witnesses are interviewed the more time that passes the more you're going to have confusion and you have that in
this case and you see it in things like nobody can really conf confirm when you know hey was interviewed by the news you
would think that would be something everybody could confirm and for a very long time people thought that happened
on the day she disappeared seems like it actually didn't seems like it happened about a week before that stuff like that
eyewitness accounts of of seeing hey go get some french fries or do this or do that or she was supposed to go the
wrestling match there was no wrestling match that night so those there are little things that you certainly lose
which is by the way another reason why when the police find the body month after she disappears if they had the car
they would have processed it right then because every second that passes is seconds that you're going to lose
evidence you know you may have DNA that degrades the car might get stolen as we talked about you need to talk to people
you need to move forward but the thing about it is I think there's been a lot made of sort of memories changing and
people forgetting but and that was a huge focus in serial the very first episode of
Serial she spends half the first episode saying things like if someone asked you
what you were doing six weeks ago you know would you be able to tell them and all that stuff but there are some huge
pieces of information that we knew immediately you know there's this eternal debate about whether or not ad
Adon aste for a ride that day that very day that she went missing he told a police officer he asked her for a ride
so like we can debate that and we can debate how people's memories shift and maybe people forgot certain things but
we have contemporaneous evidence that he did that things like that I think are are much harder to chalk up to to
Memories fading now I will say this a big problem we have is investigations happening 17 18 19 years later we talk
about that some in our case as well where people are asked to explain things that happened 19 years ago 20 years ago
and and they don't remember they don't remember what happened at all and that adds another level of confusion but I
think you can get down to some pretty important facts that we know because of documentation in and around the event
there will always be some stuff lost and there's a lot of that in this case but I
don't know how important it really is at the end of the day yeah I think that's incredibly important to know here
because with any case even if there was no lag in the investigation you're going
to have either inconsistent stories or people's memories are just going to not be perfect we've talked about this a lot
that circumstantial evidence is just as weighty as um direct evidence but the the reality in the court of law but the
reality is that direct evidence iwitness testimony is faulty not just because of
memory but because our brains um process things differently and we may not always
know that what we are witnessing at the time is going to be of evidentiary value
later so we're not taking notes at the time we're not making sure to parse through every detail for purposes of uh
regurgitating at a later time which is why eyewitness testimony is not the golden standard necessarily taken in
conjunction with other evidence can be very helpful but in this case I think so much hay has been made about um parts of
people's memories that we can't remember but you have to parse through what is important for purposes of the elements
of the crime that Adnan was charged with or and whether it's just going to be ancillary to the real story here and
when you look at the brass tax and things that we can confirm a very a very sturdy story actually begins to emerge
and it doesn't really matter the the things that are gray on the outside because they don't go to the core of
what happened that day and whether it's important for purposes of um the charges
that were brought against Adon and the ultimate conviction Brett what was your and I want to focus in on the timeline
still here what when you're putting together your bullet points for this very expansive
timeline what was the one item on that timeline that you were looking forward to diving deeper in and figuring out the
details of such and it doesn't have to be something that pointed toward guilt or toward innocence it could be
something that that had little to do with the case at all but when you're putting together this this very big
timeline what was the one thing that that jumped off the page to you that you said that now I want to know more about
that and and what did you learn so there are a couple things it's hard it's hard
to narrow it down to one you know I I'll say one thing that that really jumped out to me and I think is has jumped out
to a lot of people and that's there's always this question about leak and park and there's questions about cell phone
pings and how accurate they are and sometimes you'll hear people say things like the cell phone data is useless you
know I pulled up a Entertainment Weekly article which as we all know is the ultimate source of news and one of the
bullet points about this is the cell phone pings mean nothing which is so absurd on so many levels because number
one cell phone calls tell you who were calling tell you what time and even to the extent people argue that some of the
cell phone pinks are unreliable they're incoming calls in the same data sheet that says incoming calls are not
reliable for location specifically says that outgoing calls are and so a lot of people focus on there are two incoming
calls that ping off the leakin uh Park Tower and so people debate can you trust those or not well one thing that I
thought was interesting is the phone there's only one other time that the phone actually pings in leaking Park and
it's on January 27th and on January 26th sort of late at night Jay and jinu Sater
together she gets pulled over the police get J of the car they start to harass him I think it's how he'd put it he
starts to kind of fight back and eventually they arrest him so Jay gets arrested late at night on the 26th the
next day on the 27th is the only other time the cell phone pings in leak Park and it pings from an outgoing call which
means unlike the incoming calls the night of the the murder this is one that everybody agrees is accurate and it puts
that cell phone Adon cell phone in lean Park and it's to someone that Jay knows and I think the natural sort of question
I had was is that Adon driving into lean Park having heard that Jay has been arrested seeing whether or not the
police Poli are there and driving by the location of the burial seeing that there
are no police there and calling Patrick to try and figure out what exactly happened to Jay why has he been arrested
so for me that was a time that was a time period that really stood out seeing that the body had not been recovered
either right exactly and the the the thing is too that is adnan's cell phone in leak
Park the very same Park that he will later say that he has no awareness of the of its existence he's not been there
he doesn't know that people put bodies there correct yeah and and that's 100% true and that's one of those things and
there's another there's another point when you you read through various um parts of the case File where
before that call even happens the the bus I think the track team or one of the teams is actually driving through leak
Park and adon's on the bus and they're talking about how this is where they bury all the bodies
and it's just the notion that this park where all the bodies end up which is a couple miles away from woodlin that
everybody in the high school wouldn't know about that I think is pretty silly but when you combine that with the fact
that Adon absolutely was in that park with his cell phone making phone calls I think it really makes you question a lot
of of what you've been told about about this case and about Adon in particular and we were all in high school once and
I've got to tell you the it's very difficult for me to believe that the teenagers are not talking about the park
nearby where the bodies are found um like I that that has to have been something that comes up uh especially
around Halloween time or just anytime you're joking about somebody being missing it that that's but you know we
can we can give him the benefit of the doubt and say you know what maybe he never did hear of any of those things
from any of his his friends or or classmates but what we can cannot and what is not in dispute is that his cell
phone is in a park that he will later claim that he has no wareness of that Park the name of it or that uh the
bodies sometimes are recovered from that Park so that I mean that that is a pretty big hurdle for him to to clear
after the fact Alice for you what was what was the the moment on that timeline for you that you wanted to learn more
about again it doesn't have to have anything to do with innocence or guilt but just something that that jumped off
the page that caught your attention that you wanted to learn more about and what
did you learn yeah I you know I thought it was really interesting we've heard about Jen puser a lot I've seen her um
you know talked about in other podcasts and obviously she's talked about her her
role in this a lot so I've I've not really dived into Jen piter's um uh interviews with the police before we uh
decided to cover this case and I thought picking apart what she would would have
known and when she knew it and the fact that she told really Jay's story to the police before Jay told the police the
story was enlightening for me because she would have only gotten her information from Jay which helps put us
kind of the timeline of when these things would have happened because if there in fact was a conspiracy and that
Jay was coached by the police to tell a certain story to be able to frame Adon it would have had to come at a time
before Jen even went to the police before Jay ever had contact with the police which was not something that I'd really
heard before and so again that timeline of when stories began to take shape and who they were told by um were were very
helpful for me in understanding okay if there were a frame job if there were coaching by the police they would have
had to start coaching Jay well before he even had contact with the police well how would they have done that how would
they have gotten to Jen pitar before that and and you know one thing that that I didn't quite grasp on until we
dove into this was the fact that when the first time Jen talks to the police you know she she's she kind of says I
don't know anything which I think we could all completely uh empathize with if she she was not there uh for the
burial she wasn't there for any part of it she heard about something very disturbing from Jay after the fact that
she's afraid she doesn't know what's going on and if she were to say that she knew anything she could be incriminating
herself or her friend Jay and so I understand the first time she's saying I don't know anything but then when she
goes back and gives her whole statement to the police and she does it not alone but with her attorney and her mother
sitting there it makes the whole situation of police coaching a lot more difficult you have not only an adult in
the room her mother but you also have a professional an attorney sitting there that type of coaching is is just it's
going to be very very difficult and it makes the whole police coaching aspect of The Conspiracy Theory a lot more
difficult to overcome to to to prove in this instance when you see genen Story how she tells it and how it takes shape
um and again that's something that I I think the the timeline really begins to tell the story because of when she
speaks and how she could have known her information which was from Jay and just one other thing on that and something I
think we should all remember and I think people forget Jay and Jen I mean they're
both teenagers Jay's out of high school but I think he's 19 at the time JY may be 19 but they're both teenagers and you
have to believe that the police in concocting this Theory have decided we're going to hang this whole case on
these two teenagers one of whom has a criminal record as a drug dealer we're going to put all our faith which
includes keeping our jobs and you know possibly staying out of prison because usually when you frame people for a
crime that's a crime in of itself we're going to put all our faith on these teenagers and send them forth into the
world and here we sit 20 years later and to this day neither one of them has said
it was all lie the police coach just you know we were we were pressured by the police neither one of them have done
that I think that's significant well and one thing I like that you guys did real
well was the presentation of Dawn and clearing up the so don is dating hmon Lee at the time of of her death and Adon
Sayad is the ex-boyfriend now I I haven't gone back and listened to serial and again this is not anything critical
of their presentation in fact I enjoyed I enjoyed the podcast very much and every year around Thanksgiving on that
long weekend I usually go back and revisit something uh from yester year maybe an old book or something and read
it again or pick pick something up watch watch an old movie for the second time this year it might be serial uh
listening to your guys' episodes peaked my interest and I might have to go back and listen to seral again it was that
good but I I feel like there if I remember their presentation correctly yes you're aware of dawn early in the
episodes but it's not until late in that first season that the idea is pushed forward that whoa he may he may be a
suspect here he may be somebody that we should have some consideration of did he
do this and with your guys's timeline you you very clearly stated that the police looked at this guy
and when they start looking at him and they start looking into this case they're very quickly led
to Adnan who they believe is a better suspect and and can you kind of just take us a little bit and expand on that
a little bit for those that may not be familiar with that part of that detail of the investigation because a lot of
people's perception is what was delivered to them in Cal that that oh we spent so much time de going through the
details of Adon and Jay and oh here's this other guy that we should give consideration to when in fact it was it
was very likely the reversal and look there's nothing wrong with taking a look at dawn and and seeing whether or not
you know there's any connection there certainly the police would have done that he's the current boyfriend he's
going to be an initial suspect they talk to him multiple times you know they there are notes if you read the case
File their notes are they're like yeah it didn't seem that broken enough about her her leaving because at the time you
know for all they knew and I don't know why they really thought this but there were a lot of people who thought she
went to California I don't really understand that it's we see this a lot you guys see this a lot in cases where
people disappear and inexplicably the police are like well maybe they ran away it's like no they didn't but there's
nothing wrong with looking at him eliminating him as a suspect and moving on but the problem you have and why we
need to move on from da is when you look at the Timeline heya is supposed to pick
up her cousin I believe it's her cousin some people say it's her niece I'm not 100% sure but she's supposed to pick up
her cousin at around 3:30 at her school she she's very conscientious about that she does it every day and she doesn't
pick her up and what we all know for certain knowing hey knowing that fact is that by that point whatever was going to
happen to her had happened now maybe it was she'd been kidnapped and she was killed later maybe she was killed but
the criminal action had happened and you have Don who is working Don who has a time card a computerized time card that
can't be changed later without it showing up on the time card who is not he's still at work at that time there
are people who say he's still at work the the opportunity for him to do that in that time period is not there nor is
the motive he'd been dating hey for two weeks by all accounts they were very much in the honeymoon f face that Hay's
last diary entry the night before she died is this lovey-dovey thing about Dawn somehow you have to believe she
went from that to they get into some kind of altercation at a time when he's supposed to be at work he murders her
and then somehow he hides the car buries the body nobody notices he gets back to
work nobody notices and he gets up to his house at about the time you expect him to be there how how you can f all
that into the timeline is kind of Beyond me and honestly the only reason to think
Don did it is because you don't want it to be Adon there's no actual evidence that he did and I just feel like he is
one of those victims of True Crime where there are people out there who get wrapped up in these cases he had known a
hey for a couple months he dated for a couple weeks for his entire life he has had to deal with people questioning
whether or not he murdered her and that's just another tragedy on top of a lot of the tragedies in this case yeah
that may be a little bit of a misfortune but he was dating a girl that went missing he was dating a girl that was
murdered I believe he had just as much motive as Adon because we don't know if Hayman Lee told him hey I I'm not
interested in you I'm going to get back with Adnan we don't know that I think he
could have been looked at Harder questioned harder I mean he was the current boyfriend she goes missing he
doesn't try to call her cell phone no record of that a lot of people state that she was actually GNA meet da before
she actually picked up her cousin so there's some question there and then he is just happens the day she goes missing
to be working at a location that he never worked at before never worked at again and the time card I believe was
handwritten by his mother's girlfriend I mean there's just enough for me that he
should have been looked at Harder well I'll just address a couple of those number one that wasn't the day she said
she was going to meet up with him this is one of the things people get wrong the day she said she was going to meet
up with him was the day that they were going to play Randle toown in wrestling and she had written a letter for him
that she was going to leave with him that actually was a week before we know that because the person who said she was
going to meet up with him was the other scorer for the wrestling team and she was very upset when she didn't show up
that happened the week before so that is an example of sort of memory getting whatever number two she's not
questioning the relationship there's no evidence she is all the evidence is that
she is head over heels in love with him number three I can show you the computerized time card which you could
not enter more than a couple days after this happen so you would have to believe
that whoever's helping him get away with this is doing it knowing that he's killed someone and and doing it before
the body's even found which I also don't find to be very believable as far as the
phone calls two things ad Adon never called her either but people say he never called her
that's not actually what he said he said he couldn't recall whether he ever called her number two he was over at
their house he was visiting with Hay's family a couple days after this happened so this notion that he had no concern
about her and wasn't worried about her it just isn't true when you're diving into a case that's so polarizing and the
evidence is drawing you to the conclusion that Adon is guilty was there a piece of evidence that kept steering
you to the direction of maybe that he was innocent well the things for me I mean number one and this goes back to
something we talked about earlier listening to serial I found Adon to be likable and I know a lot of people
didn't I found him to be likable I wanted him to be innocent and if I hadn't seen it happens so often that
very likable people do really terrible things I think it would be really hard for me to get past that and I think it's
it's hard for for a lot of people to get past that I mean he's not somebody who has a history of violence he's somebody
who as far as we know in prison was was a perfect model prisoner you know if if he stays out of prison I I don't doubt
that he will probably never commit a crime again that you know you compare that to the person who had to strangle
this this this young woman to death and it feels in congruous you know when you think about evidence look Alonzo
sellers is not a terrible suspect anyone who finds the body is always going to be
a suspect he has sort of some weird proclivities he likes to go streaking we know that he's assaulted somebody in a
vehicle before I mean these are things that make you want to look at him you know if you're the
police there's not a lot of evidence that he's involved Beyond him finding the body but you know he's he's a he's a
decent suspect one thing a lot of people point to is the DNA that was on Hay shoes the problem with that is it's
touch DNA on her shoes in the back of her car and as far as we know it's not connected to anyone obviously if one day
you could say Hey you know advances in technology we were able to show that this DNA is Alonzo
sellers that would be a pretty powerful piece of evidence and I think at that point you have to start really looking
at what in the world's going on because remember in order for anyone else to have done
it there there has to be that massive conspiracy the one we talked about all of a sudden this that seems so incred
it's impossible to believe that anybody would do this all of a sudden it becomes
more likely now the way you get around that we talk about this some we talk about this a lot on the episodes is if
somehow Jay is involved you know if Jay is your main suspect a lot of the conspiracy stuff Falls away you no
longer have to believe that the police are coaching him and the police took him to the car it could all just be because
Jay was involved problems with Jay Jay has the same problems as a lot of people there's no apparent motive and because
Adon puts himself with Jay pretty much the entire day it's hard to even imagine how Jay could have done it and Adon not
been involved so you know there's no huge red flag sticking out to me I think and and Alice and I talk about this
sometimes look at a case based on the evidence you have if one day there's more evidence that's when you start to
reevaluate it but given what we have now I think you have a really strong case that adon's involved
in very weak cases against most of the other people that you think of as being possible suspects yeah and you you know
I think I think that's what's really hard about this case is Adon to me is a very likable person and I I find no no
joy at all that we conclude that the evidence absolutely points to Adon being guilty I don't want this honor student
who by all accounts is going was going to be a very productive member of society to be a murderer to be a
murderer who you know is shut away and no longer able to contribute to society I think this is a trag a tragedy not
only for hymon Lee but also for Adnan and what he could have become as well but like Brett said so too often we see
cases where people who seem like they couldn't do horrendous things are not only capable um but they do do it and it
it often happens to be the person who looks to have um you know their act together to have no uh no proclivities
to do criminal element but we we see that enough to know that we can't just buy into what a book looks on on its
cover and so as much as I don't want Adnan to be guilty I can't ignore the evidence that seems so clear here and
there wasn't a piece of evidence that thought that I thought man I don't know th this could this could be the bit that
um makes him Innocent but I'm just going to ignore it there really was none of that and remember it's a game of not
just it's not just making sure the evidence fits adnan's conviction but rather if not Adnan who else and in this
case every single viable suspect truly Falls away when you take a hard look at the evidence and the only the only one
that it really points to when you look at the evidence is Adnan whether you start there or not that and the evidence
absolutely led me to his guilt I do want to say this it's only a tragedy for what
Adnan could have become if he is innocent um if he did do this and he got caught got convicted what he would have
become is very likely an abuser or he would have impulsively killed somebody else at some point um so I do want to be
clear about that in my feelings anyway but the but you're you're absolutely right Alice that the evidence to me when
you review the totality of it it suggests that portions of Jay's story are are truthful and then if you were to take
that bit of knowledge then you have to go okay well if parts of his story are the
truth then you're only left with really three conclusions in my opinion when you
start talking about other other parties and if you know if the this unknown person did it or if uh Dawn did it very
quickly they become problems there there's clear problems with those other suspects because of the evidence the
evidence suggests that some of Jay's story is correct and so that means three possibilities to me Jay did it Adon did
it or the two of them did it together I think that's right I me I don't I don't know how you get past that and we talk
about the cell phone pings and and once again what's helpful and what's not helpful and if you if you believe I mean
look there's a tight timeline here and the fact that there's a tight timeline it helps Adon on the one hand because he
can say and he says this in serial and in the prosecution in my view and their opening statement and I think in their
closing as well made a mistake saying that the 236 call was the she's dead come get me call because that made the
timeline even Tighter and there's no there's no reason to think that's true Jay doesn't say that Jay doesn't testify
to that and there are other phone calls that make more sense but if you put that
aside for a second put the 236 phone call aside for a second you have a situation where we know Jay has the cell
phone in the hour around when hey would have had to have gone missing and he's making calls and he's taking calls and
all those calls are pinging away from the high school so if he's not near the high school where hey is and he's
actually south of the high school and hey eventually is going to make her way north of the high school to pick up her
cousin where is the opportunity assume for a second that you know well it doesn't matter I guess
whether adon's doing it but where is the opportunity for Jay to have been involved in the actual kidnapping and
murder of hay because his cell phone and by his I mean Adon doesn't start to move towards the Best Buy until
more like 3:15 at which point she's definitely been grabbed that's when it starts
moving towards the Best Buy then it's at the best by for a little while then it starts moving towards woodlon and we
know that Adon has or at least Jay says and not only Jay JY says in her first statement to the
police she says Adon told Jay he had to go to some practice of some sort she wasn't even sure what kind she just knew
that he was supposed to go to some practice so he could be seen so he'd have an alibi and what do you see you
see the cell phone start moving north towards the high school according to the track coach who testified at trial he
testified at trial that track started around 4:00 Jay's making phone calls at 3:48 next to Wood high school so exactly
where he'd need to be to be dropping off Adon so he can go to track practice you're looking at that stuff and it's
like how is it possible for Jay to have done this by [Applause] [Music] himself join us back here in the garage
to tomorrow for the conclusion of our interview with Brett and Alice of the prosecutors podcast until then be good
be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] in tresto suku tril volaran tablets is the number one heart failure brand
prescribed by cardiologists and has helped over 1 million people with heart failure it's a prescription medicine
that treats adults with longlasting chronic heart failure and works better when the heart cannot pump a normal
amount of blood to the body don't take in tresto if pregnant it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby don't take in
tresto with an Ace inhibitor or Alice Kieran or if you've had angio edema with an ace or ARB don't take with Alice
Kieran or within 36 hours of taking an Ace inhibitor the most serious side effects are angioedema low blood
pressure kidney problems or high blood potassium angioedema is swelling of your face lips tongue and throat that may
cause death if it causes difficulty breathing get emergency ask your doctor about Ino to learn more
visit support. ino.com or call 83344 6699 for pricing visit ino.com cost if you can't afford your medication
novaris may be able to help

Hae Min Lee /// Part 1 /// 696

Part 1 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

In early 1998 Woodlawn High School senior Hae Min Lee started dated fellow classmate Adnan Syed. The two had a pretty serious relationship but by Christmas of that year the relationship was through. Hae broke things off with Adnan and then she started dating another guy. On January 13, 1999 - Hae Min Lee was reported missing by her family. Less than a month later her partially buried body was discovered in Leakin Park. In 2000 Hae’s former boyfriend Adnan Syed was convicted of her murder. Join Nic & The Captain in the garage as they invite their friends Bret & Alice from the Prosecutors podcast in for a discussion about this very complicated case.

Beer of the Week - Day Glow Vibes

Garage Grade - 3 and half bottle caps out of 5

Check out the Prosecutors Podcast and listen to their new and updated coverage of the Hae Min Lee murder case.

Follow True Crime Garage on X @TrueCrimeGarage / Follow Nic on X @TCGNIC / Follow The Captain on X @TCGCaptain

Listen to True Crime Garage Off The Record where TCG breaks all of the rules and get NASTY, NASTY and sometimes even more NASTY!!! Now available on Apple Podcast Subscriptions and to everyone everywhere on Patreon. Promo Code: Patreon25 for 25% discount in the website store. Good till 9.9.2023

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

Brett and Alice analyze the Hae Min Lee murder case, focusing on evidence, witness testimonies, and the conviction of Adnan Syed.

Key points

The Brutal Murder of Mary Petri and Bill Sprout. In 1970, two university students were murdered in a crime that shocked the nation.
The Haymon Lee Case Revisited. A podcast reignites interest in the controversial murder case of Haymon Lee and Adnan Sayed.
The Role of Witnesses. Witnesses often change their stories, complicating trials. 'You have to deal with changing stories.'
Jay Wilds' Testimony. Jay Wilds' story has inconsistencies but also undeniable facts. 'There are so many things about Jay's story that aren't in dispute.'
Police Misconduct. Jay's rights were violated during police interviews, impacting his case. 'There were some real police misconduct.'
The Conspiracy Theory. The idea of a police frame job raises questions about credibility and motive. 'What would be the motivation?'

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This case can still be solved 50 years later.

A reporter discusses the cold case of Mary Petri and Bill Sprout.

2:07WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.