Lauren Spierer /// Part 2 /// True Crime Garage | Forensic Files

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[music] We're discussing the disappearance of 20-year-old Indiana University student
Lauren Spear. She was out for a night of partying with her friends and then in the early morning hours of June 3rd,
2011, she is last seen leaving her friend's apartment, Jason Rosenbomb. Now, he watches her leave. This is about
4:30 in the morning. And he watches her leave and he says that he sees her walk up 11th Street.
>> Now, this is the last time that she is seen. Since her disappearance, there has
been several theories that have come about as well as obvious suspects. Thus being her boyfriend and the three guys
that she was hanging out with that night. >> Well, let's dive into the first theory,
and this is the foul play theory. >> Yes. Originally, the police had said that they expected foul play from the
beginning. Um, they thought that this would be involved because Lauren had not communicated with anyone since her
disappearance. Now, this could mean a lot of different things. And it what one thing that it could mean is that maybe
someone had picked her up. You know, we had said about her size. She she's small.
>> Uh she there's things going on that night that make her an ideal target. >> If she was where her friends say she
was, she was small. She was intoxicated. And she was alone. >> Yeah. All those factors would make her
easy to grab, easy to control. Or let's say that you didn't want to grab her because you didn't want someone to see
you doing that. Mhm. >> Now, I don't I'm not saying that this would be true with Lauren, but we do
know that a lot of killers have got a lot of victims into their cars with the promise of drugs.
>> Yeah. And Well, yeah. But the the other thing that I have not heard anywhere is
that we do have one witness saying I had to pick her up and carry her back >> and she lost her shoes, her phone at the
bar, then loses her purse and and all these other belongings, her keys on the way back to their apartment. What if she
was just walking alone and then just was like, I I'm going to stop here to rest.
I'm tired. >> I'm just going to lay down for a minute. Now you got this passed out individual
on the side of the road that is not that heavy. So this could be a very opportunist thing. You [clears throat]
know, somebody driving around and especially in these highly, you know, I can't speak for Bloomington. I can just
speak for Ohio State campus, but if you go there on a Saturday night, Friday, Saturday night, you know, that scene is
is is busy. You know, there's walkers, there's commuters, there's people out and about. There's a lot of people. If I
was looking to harm somebody and looking for easy prey, a college campus is a perfect location. Oh yeah.
>> There's all these weird alleyways and there's, you know, and there's tons of underage people intoxicated and walking
and then walking alone. So, you know, she could have just been passed out somewhere.
>> It's a [clears throat] whole community of pedestrians and a lot of them on a Friday night or late Thursday, they're
walking back to their place. Um, the thing here though, Captain, is the surveillance footage. You know, we when
we went through the timeline, we discussed all these different sightings of her on these different cameras using
camera footage from different apartment complexes and such that saw her walking with Corey back to her apartment and
then seeing them walk to his apartment. >> The problem I have here is, you know,
we've we've seen what they've released. you know, they've released some pictures
of her. The problem is where why aren't we seeing more of this surveillance footage because we have this story of
these guys stating that she left on her own. She walked out of here by herself. >> Now, if if your theory is possible foul
play or your theory is that one of these guys might have done something, >> if we could see this, what is on that
surveillance footage that you're not releasing? And and to be honest with you, Captain, it's very uncommon for
them not to release this surveillance footage, >> right? And I think there's, you know,
there have been some clips cuz I've seen some little snidbits. My question is, is
there surveillance footage of her leaving her friend's apartment? >> Yeah. >> Because it cuz if so, then all those
eyewitness accounts somewhat check out up to that point. >> Yeah. >> And now, did she take off walking? To
me, it'd be more likely that she'd run into somebody else that caused foul play outside of this group of four or
possibly even the ex-boyfriend because the ex-boyfriend claims, >> now let's just talk about his alibi. He
claims that he finished watching game six >> and then he went to sleep. So now his
roommate states that this was true, but they really don't have a solid alibi for
where he was, you know, because he could have went to his room. His roommate goes
to sleep and he gets up, >> you know, 2 2:00, 4:00 in the morning. Where is he at? Where's his alibi?
>> Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And I don't mean to to correct you here, but it was
it was game two of the NBA finals. >> Oh, did I say game six? >> You got excited there. It did go six
games. Okay. Um, now the thing here is you're exactly right. He says he's at home watching this game. The game was
over just around midnight. Um, his roommate states that uh he ended up going to bed. Jesse went to bed at 2:30
in the morning. Um, >> right. >> Is how solid is that? You know, how concrete is that information? What
happened after 2:30? Could he have >> And I'm not saying that the roommate's a liar. I'm just saying the roommate might
not know. Well, and then the other possibility is that she may not have left those apartments as well and
>> that their stories don't check out. >> And that's why I'm calling into question
about this surveillance footage. You know, they they had footage of the two of them walking into that alley and then
they have footage of them coming out of the alley on the way back to Cory's place
>> if she would have taken the same route. And I don't know that she would have,
but had she taken the same route to get home or to return to where she was going, you know, do they have footage of
her going into that alley and then not footage of her coming back out, you know, that all these things would point
us into some better direction rather than these these four theories. >> Yeah. It's this very blurry area that we
wish we had more answers, basically. >> Well, and that leads us to police theory
number two. This is the inner circle theory that someone in her inner circle had done something bad to her. You know,
this could obviously mean her boyfriend or any of the other friends, the guys that she was hanging out with that
night, >> right? And like I said, I think initially it's a little odd. You know,
uh normally people that are dating in their early 20s are they're not as mature. So to have a bunch of friends of
the opposite sex might not be the coolest thing. And the fact that this guy's just like, "Well, I'm just going
to stay at home and watch the game, and you're going to go hang out with three other dudes. By the way, you're going to
also get drunk with them. Oh, you're going to be alone in their apartments with them?
I don't know about this." >> Yeah. One thing I did when I was researching this case was I had to kind
of step back and take away and and kind of throw out what I thought maybe Lauren's motives were for that evening.
You know, I I just I just have to kind of chalk it up to maybe she just wanted to go out and have a good time. I wasn't
trying to >> girls just want to have fun. >> Yeah. Because I think if you try to read
too much into what you know any one of these people in this group was trying to accomplish that night, it really could
sway you in a weird direction. >> Mhm. >> And we're going to stay on this inner circle theory here. And I'll tell you
why, Captain. Because really, when you when you look at the police theories, the first initial four theories, you
could really kind of encompass all of those theories into this inner circle theory. Any any of those could be
possible with any of these members of the inner circle. >> Yeah. So, we have the the boyfriend.
>> Yes. >> Now, his motive would be that she was out with some guys and maybe that he was
jealous of this. >> Mhm. >> And so, therefore, he murdered her. >> Retaliation. >> Now, I think his Well, you know, his
alibi is not completely solid. I think he definitely >> It's a reasonable alibi.
>> Exactly. And I think with that, so let's just put him to the side for a second.
Yes. >> Then the next guy you have is the guy she's hanging out with the most, >> Corey.
>> Right. And we now, you know, for the record, they're just friends, but his motive could be sexual.
You know, men are dogs. That's how we are. >> It's possible. Yeah, it's it's reasonable to suspect that.
>> And so the the idea the idea here would have to be that he wanted to have sexual
advances with her and that was not happening. So therefore, he killed her or he raped her and killed her. But the
problem with this is they hung out with, you know, he hung out with her so much and even though Lauren was small, I
mean, she's this partying rock star, right? >> Mhm. >> Maybe I glorified that too much, but you
know, anyway, she's holding her own and he by the time they get back, he carries
her. And I think that to me is a sign that this guy is trying to get lucky. Like I'll carry her back. Well, and mind
you, this is the the part that I have a big issue with with Corey is that they are at her apartment. I mean, they're
not physically inside her apartment. They're in the apartment complex and he could have delivered her to her place
and left her there >> and and that didn't happen for what and we don't know. We don't know. Maybe
Lauren was part of that saying, "No, let's change my mind. These guys are jerks. Let's go to your place."
>> Right. Let's keep Yeah, let's keep the party going. But it seems odd to me that
they're there. And >> I want to know more about him being punched because my thought on on one
level is if there's not like some solid story backing that >> then maybe he did something with her
>> and she attacked him and that's how he ended up with a black eye. >> That's and then this guy lawyers up and
says and here's the problem again. Everybody in the inner circle, the four major suspects that we need to look
into, they all lawyered up. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, let's just talk a little and I don't know if I covered this. So, the
boyfriend, he helps with a couple searches. After a couple searches, his parents come lawyer him up. So, now he's
not talking to the police. And then Corey lawyers up, you know, but now all their lawyers say, "But we're being
cooperative with law enforcement." >> But so anyways, so with the Corey thing, the problem I have with that, which
doesn't make a lot of sense, is I I know that he's with her the most. So he's the
number one suspect in my eyes, more so than the current boyfriend. >> And he had some kind of assault, whether
he provoked it or not. Sometimes you're just being a drunk idiot and somebody punches you. He might have not really
been doing anything shady. Um but he throws up and then passes out. >> Yeah. >> And so he has the same if not better
alibi than the current boyfriend. >> Yeah. Yeah. His his hisory or his statement stating that you you
should believe me because I I threw up. I got sick. I went to bed. Mhm. >> And not only that, I was not the last
person to see her and you have my roommate backing up my story as well. >> Um, >> well, you have actually two individuals
backing up his story because you have two people that saw her after him. >> Correct.
>> Right. So then you have Michael, the roommate of Corey, and he, you know, is basically forced to try to look after
this intoxicated girl, and he's trying to get rid of her. Mhm. >> So again, I don't think there was
anything bad there. I mean, whether he was studying at home or not, you don't actually believe that he was
>> I was just kind of teasing, >> right? But whether whether or not he's, you know, maybe he's just hanging out,
you know, playing video games, you know, he's just relaxing, whatever, he's just
at home and that happens all the time where you're just like, "Hey, it's a, you know, it's a Friday or it's a
whatever day of the week it is and you're just going to watch a movie, but you live on campus." Well, that movie
might be interrupted by 15 drunk people or 15 drunk friends or two drunk friends. And then then it becomes, well,
I just wanted a relaxing evening. Now I'm dealing with drunk people. And there's nothing there's probably not
much there's probably not much more annoying thing in the world than being sober around intoxicated people.
>> It's extremely annoying. Uh the the thing here is captain, you know, I'm I'm leaving the boyfriend aside like you
said, okay, but I'm going to focus on these three guys, Corey, Michael, Jason. >> And if we are to believe Corey, Michael,
and Jason, they all have the same story, >> you know, they tell the same timeline.
If we're to believe their story works, then in my opinion, this Michael guy, the the roommate of Cory's,
>> he actually has he would be the least like likely suspect to me out of the three of these guys. He seems to have
the the least amount of involvement with this whole >> and I wouldn't know what his motive
would be other than, oh, this drunk girl just showed up and now I'm going to murder her.
>> Yeah. and he and he seems to have passed her off, you know, taking her to Jason's
apartment, right? >> You know, this being around 3:30 in the morning. So, in under this scenario, you
have Cory who spent the most time with her. And it's a little convenient that he doesn't seem to remember anything
after being punched in the face or even remember much of that incident at all. >> Yeah. Which is crazy because he says,
"Well, I I I blacked out." But then how do you know that you carried her? >> Mhm. Like it's one or the other, you
know what I mean? >> And the thing here though is then Michael takes her to to Jason's and
she's there for about an hour according to Jason. And if these stories check out, Jason is the last one to see her
before she disappears. Thus to me making him the second most likely. I still keep
Corey still keep Corey at that number one spot. >> Right. So then what's the third theory
by the police? The third theory is that she would have been drugged at the bar or drugged sometime during that night.
You know, she's out partying, she's drinking a lot, somebody put something in her drink. Um,
>> which is very possible. >> It's very possible. I actually think that if someone put something in her
drink that it would have been somebody she was hanging out with that night. Um, I I know it it's it can happen that they
just happened to stop off at this bar for 45 minutes and someone slipped something in her drink there. that that
obviously can happen, >> but I don't understand how that works out. If it's a stranger, does this guy
just kind of follow them around and stand around and wait till 4:30 in the morning to see her again alone? You know
what I mean? It seems a bit random to me. Um, where it >> Yeah, I think if she was drugged, it's
probably more likely she was drugged by somebody she was hanging out with. >> I would have liked to have known how
intoxicated she was at the bar. Um, you know, was was this falling down drunk? Was this something that they saw coming
or was this something that just all of a sudden was brought on? >> Ladies and gentlemen, trust me, we've
now this is what 92 episodes or something like that. We have talked a lot of a lot of cases where we talk
about date rape or or drugging somebody's drink. >> Be careful when you're out drinking.
Make sure that you're watching your drink and your friends drinks. Everybody, not just ladies. Everybody be
careful. >> I said ladies and gentlemen. >> Well, thank you. Yeah. And the thing
too, they say always make sure that it's the bartender handing you your drink, not somebody else. Well, but you need to
watch the bartenders as well >> because the Joey Le case that we're talking about, you know, I've been
diving into some new stuff there and there was some reports of, you know, I I have some friends that have been uh
>> this is speculation, >> speculation, but I do have some friends that have been at bars in that area that
had they they believe that they were roofied and they watched their drink the whole time and they think the only way
that they could have been >> date rape drug or roofied would in by the bartender.
>> And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why the captain is a recluse. [laughter]
>> No, no, it's cuz of Howard Hughes. So, uh, please theory number four. >> This is the drug overdose theory that,
uh, something that she overdosed that night. We talked about a lot of partying going on that night and that her friends
or a friend got scared and dumped the body or hid the body somewhere because of the overdose.
>> Right. which I I I think okay a couple things. One, we we do not have a body.
We do not know where Lauren is. >> So, we do not have any kind of toxicology report or anything,
>> right? >> So, we don't know how much of anything was in in her system, >> right? It's it's believed that she was
consuming quite a bit of alcohol. We are told that she was also doing cocaine and
snorting colonopin. you we heard the rumor of possible ecstasy being involved. Um and then
>> and that's a crazy cocktail. >> Yeah. I mean any any three of these four together would be crazy.
>> Um we also have the finding of the cocaine at her apartment that that may back some of this up in my opinion. It
certainly points towards backing it up a little bit but but I guess you could go
either way. Um, again, we I still think that we need more information on the whole situation. She did have that long
QT syndrome, though. This would be a heart condition. This I'm not a doctor, but I'm guessing that having a heart
condition, and doing potential drugs that could increase your heart rate or slow them down or confuse your body
would would even make a potential uh bad cocktail lethal. >> Yeah. And you know, heart disease aside,
I mean, we already have that report that clonopin is a very deadly, you know, thing, a drug to mix with alcohol.
>> Mhm. You should not mix that with anything, and you should not be using that unless directed by a doctor. Um,
Lauren's family has plenty of times voiced their suspicions about her friends that she was hanging out with
that night, as well as her boyfriend, uh, pointing out that they have all refused police issued polygraph test.
They all have retained lawyers very quickly into this investigation or the disappearance of Lauren.
>> Right. >> So, it sounds like Lauren's parents are at at the very least believe one or more
of these dudes know more than what they are willing to tell us. >> Well, I definitely think they do, but I
think some of that is that they have a reputation and they don't want to, you know, come out and say, "Well, I was on
this drug, too." or you know there a lot of people will say oh well well mom and
dad I was hanging out with her but I you know I was just drinking I wasn't doing
that other stuff. >> Mhm. >> You know >> well and I think you touched upon something that I was thinking about too
was that I think you could make an argument either way on this situation. You could make an argument for Lauren's
parents that these guys have not cooperated, but I think you on some level could make an argument that they
have cooperated. Um, if in fact she did leave on her own accord, h how responsible how much are they how much
do they have to be involved, I guess, is what I'm saying, as far as the investigation goes.
>> Well, they they weren't forcing her to drink and they weren't forcing her to do
drugs if there was no roofy. Mhm. >> So, you know, she is responsible for that. You know, I think, you know, it
comes down to some somewhat privilege, you know, and I think, you know, let's just be honest, she was she's a white
female. All four suspects are white males. >> Mhm. >> Family probably has some kind of
financial backing. You know, the the boyfriend helps for two days. It's your girlfriend since
high school and you help for two days and then you lawyer up. That's a little fishy. And then everybody else lawyers
up right away. And yes, it's a police polygraph. And I don't know how much I trust that. Now, you were telling me
that some of them actually have taken polygraphs. >> Yeah. So, this is the the the guys have
responded to the Spears public suspicions by saying that they have taken privately administered polygraphs
as well as one from the FBI. Now, that statement is a little confusing to me because I'm not sure if that means that
all of them have taken an FBI administered test or if just one of them has. >> Um, if they have, if all of them have, I
see no reason why the FBI test shouldn't more than suffice for a Bloomington Police Department test, right?
>> You know, Bloomington to me is a is a college town. It's not New York City. It's not Washington DC. I would think
that the FBI have better test, you know, than most larger police agencies with a
lot of funding and a lot of resources. >> And I would love to know what questions
were asked and I'd love to know what the results of those tests were. >> Yeah, that's that's something key there,
Captain, because were these softball questions, >> you know, were these priv privately
administered polygraphs that were at the request of their own lawyers? You know,
we've seen situations where a defense attorney will take somebody on as their client, but they subject them to a
polygraph test because they want to get a feel if the person's actually innocent
or not, so they know how to construct their investigation, you know, the defense of their client.
>> Yeah. It It's really hard for me to think that if I'm partying with people and somebody ODed that I wouldn't be
calling 911 right away. I would party with your body for like >> for the next few hours.
>> Take you to Waffle House like Weekend at Bernie's. >> Yeah. Dance dance me around. No, but
it's like I look I Yeah, I think there's some privilege here, but I don't think you know when the there's a retired FBI
agent that's on this case, and one of his things and one of his theories is that she oded and they got scared and
the last thing that, you know, young 20some year old guys want is the police involved.
>> No, the last thing they want is their for their friends. Yeah. >> Right. To OD. And yes, you are you are
on drugs, but you can call the ambulance. Like to me, that's the first step. I mean, these obviously these guys
are at this higher quote unquote higher education, right? >> So, >> you know, the the idea that they would
just take her and dump her into the Ohio River opposed to calling the ambulance seems a little ludicrous to me.
>> Mhm. And the thing, like I said before, witnesses say that she was doing cocaine
and colonopen. Uh were those witnesses those same dudes? Um because then you could take it take it either
way. Either a they've come clean with what they know and they've admitted to illegal activity or now they're making
some [ __ ] up because they've done something even worse. >> Right. Right. But then at that point
it's not about OT. Maybe these individuals were, you know, they did some sick [ __ ] It was it was a a raping
murder. Dump her body into the river, you know. But this whole idea that they would well they just wouldn't call the
cops. They wouldn't they wouldn't call ambulance. I mean, you could if the last thing you want the last thing you want
is a dead body, but the second thing you don't want is the cops. Well, okay, there's a step in between. Somebody
disoded. Let's call the ambulance. You don't have to call the cops. You call the ambulance
>> or you drive that individual to a hospital. It makes you know these are people that or are friends with her or
at least acquaintances with her. They're not just going to like, oh well [ __ ] what are we going to do? Let's just put
her in a bag and dump dump her in a river. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And I really like and most of the
time I'm very on the side of FBI agents. But for some reason, every time they go
to that theory, I just, you know, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. >> Well, we got some even stranger theories
to get to right after this quick beer break. [music] All right, we're back. Cheers, mates.
>> I want to go through this newspaper article that came out April 2013, and it's titled, "Remains are found in
Indiana." >> Mhm. >> Remains were found in a remote area of Indiana. And a lot of people suspected
that these would be the remains of college student Lauren Spear. >> Wow. That's that's pretty interesting.
Brown County Chief Deputy Coroner Earl Piper told Fox News that the remains discovered belonged to 26-year-old Kate
McGrael, who was [clears throat] reported missing in April of 2010. The remains were found on a private property
by two women looking for mushrooms. >> Well, that's what I normally do. >> Well, originally they had just found a
skull, but when they called it in and the authorities came out, the other remains were found. Mhm.
>> Piper said that the identification was made through dental records and no cause
of death has been released. Now, while the bones were found a couple weeks before this article had actually come
out, they waited till they had identified them. Um, authorities began to investigate whether they had belonged
to missing women in the area. This including Spear. So, so think about this for a second. you are a family member of
Lauren who has gone missing or or a loved one or a friend or whatever and this news comes out that there are
remains found and I imagine that it this is the nightmare that all of these people all of these victims go through
in these disappear type cases that anytime somewhere in an area close to where they went disappeared if if the
remains are found now you're drugged back into the story you're reliving the nightmare again you're hoping and
praying that it's that it's not her or maybe you're praying that it is her So you can finally get some answers and
bring her home, >> right? Or get some closure. >> Kate McGrael was a graduate of Indiana
University. She was last seen leaving for a solo hike near her mother's home in Brown County. Her father, Jim, he
lived in Nashville, Indiana, told the Indianapolis Star that he believes that his daughter had died from hypothermia.
Again, there was no cause of death determined uh as of mid 2016. So, we're yet to see a more recent update than
this, but the Brown County coroner did state that >> what they do know is that she had died
in the place where she was found. >> Okay. >> Uh and they they said that foul play is
not suspected. But I only bring that up because when you're going through these cases, like we said, anytime this news
pops up, these family members or friends, they're out somewhere, they hear this news on the radio, they see it
on the TV or maybe in their local newspaper, they're immediately on the phone or they're getting calls from
investigators wondering if this is a connection. >> Yeah. And your your heart goes out to
them or anybody that has had to deal with that. So, let's get into some of the stranger theories and some of the
stranger coincidences that have come up since the disappearance of Lauren. Um, the first one being that of the excon
and the white truck. >> On the night that Lauren disappeared, police said that a white truck was
spotted on surveillance footage not far from where she was last seen. Yeah. So, there's a possibility that this vehicle
could be involved. The Bloomington Police Department were investigating any potential link between this truck and
Lauren Spear's disappearance. You know, the thought here is, did this driver happen to be driving down the street,
saw her at an intersection, and immediately pulled over? >> You know, maybe this is exactly what he
was looking for. Talks her into the vehicle. This could take just a matter of seconds. And then at that point, he's
got her and he takes her to to wherever. >> Yeah. Or maybe doesn't talk her in. forces, you know, forcers are in by
gunpoint. That's a possibility. But but who is this individual that's driving this white truck?
>> Um, well, they're not for certain who he is. But where the excon comes into play
is the FBI agent, he's actually a former FBI agent, uh, by the last name of Garrett, who now works for ABC News. Um
he discovered that there was an ex-convict named James Mlish and he just happened to be released from prison from
he was there for assaulting his ex-wife. He was released at the time of this disappearance and he drove a similar
white truck. >> Right. And so then they got a call from the the ex-wife that he assaulted
saying, "Hey, you might want to check into this guy." >> Yeah. And that that's what tipped them
off. He he also happened to have been living in a halfway house at the time which was just about 10 minutes from
where Lauren had disappeared. >> What were the claims that the ex-wife was making?
>> Well, she says that James Mcll had killed Lauren and then buried her on a farm in southern Indiana.
>> Uh stating that he had, you know, said things to her in regards like comments
that he would make to her. Things like, well, you know what happened to Lauren and the same thing could happen to you.
So threats that that she is alleging he had said to her. >> Well, I think it's weird that you know
he goes to prison for assaulting you and why are you having any contact with this
individual? >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Like uh you know are are you having contact because you
like drama? Are you having contact with this individual because he's forcing you
to? Like are you welcoming this too? I do want to throw something out there though regarding ex-wives,
ex-girlfriends, and I'm not saying that, you know, I don't want, you know, I don't want anybody to read too much into
this, but I know regarding the Long Island serial killer case that through the tip line, they were getting a lot of
tips from ex-wives, ex-girlfriends that were accusing former, you know, husbands
and boyfriends of being >> lovers. Yeah. >> Being involved. So, this is something
that is is actually pretty common in a in a pretty popular case. Um, but they had made contact, the former FBI agent,
Garrett, he made contact with this James Mclish. Now, James agrees to a lie detector test.
>> Um, and he wants to prove that he was not involved in the disappearance of Lauren.
>> Yeah. He wants to clear his name. >> So, when it came to questions about Lauren, uh, James stuck to his denials,
uh, answering calmly and clearly. Uh, he said he had nothing to do with Lauren's
disappearance. >> Mhm. and he, you know, at the end of the day, it sounds like they didn't gain
much from this lie detector. They didn't think that he was being untruthful, >> right?
>> Um they they basically thank him for his cooperation and he tells the, you know,
the investigators that he wishes them the best of luck, >> right? So now, if this individual was
driving this white truck, then we can rule that out as a lead. But if this individual was not driving that
particular white truck, then that is still a very possible lead. >> You're exactly right. And I think just
his cooperation shows that he's probably not guilty of anything regarding Lauren's case.
>> Um, another strange thing that took place uh was the biker gang uh theory. Now, this is from the streets of
Indiana. There's a notorious motorcycle gang called the Sons of Silence. Um, there is an alleged link to the Spear
case which came in the form of tips from a former member of the group. This person's name is Robert Strange who goes
by the name of Bodin. >> Wait, wait. His real name is Robert Strange. >> Yeah. And he goes by the name of Bodin.
>> Old Bodin. >> Which is crazy because your real name is Bodin and you go by the captain,
>> right? >> Strange doesn't >> Strange. >> Strange. Robert Strange does not have
any criminal record. Uh but he is well known to the authorities, whatever that means. Uh I guess he's got a reputation
for being what they call an enforcer. >> Um so if the gang has a problem, you know, they go to him and he kind of just
takes care of it, right? >> Uh but again, no criminal record. >> So going by the name of Bod Dean, this
is a former member of a local motorcycle gang. Uh, according to the investigators, now what they discover is
an online message in which one of Robert Strange's relatives claimed that Strange
shot Lauren in a dispute over drugs and money and then buried her on his property.
>> Mhm. >> The message reads, "It's very good fertilizer." >> Well, if he's talking about Lauren, then
that's just some sick [ __ ] right there. >> Well, and these are online messages, so
they could have really been posted by anybody. Um, the thing here is what investigators did come up with was that,
you know, this gang and this particular person had ties. They were in the Indianapolis area and they couldn't find
any link between Lauren in the Indianapolis area and they used basically her cell phone records to come
up to try to establish a link. They couldn't do that. Uh, ultimately what they think is happening here is that
this guy probably has made a lot of enemies over the years. Mhm. >> And then it looks like somebody's trying
to set him up or maybe just kind of throw suspicion his way to put him under the radar of the police.
>> Well, and she lost her keys, right? So to get from Bloomington to Indianapolis
or for this person to be just passing a by that late at night from Indianapolis to Bloomington would doesn't seem that
likely. if she did owe somebody money or if there was some kind of dispute over drugs, if if that dispute went down at
4:30 in the morning when she just happened to be alone drunk on a street corner,
>> right? >> It it seems very strange to me that this person would just happen to catch her in
that area at that time. >> Yeah, but some men are just [ __ ] talkers. Like take the ex-con, right,
for example. like his ex-wife calls and says, "Hey, this guy assaulted me and he's been making threats. You know what
happened to her will happened to you, implying that he did it because he's some tough guy, you know?" Well, that's
not a tough guy comment. That's stupid. So, shut the [ __ ] up, right? So, and then here's another guy that, you know,
he's a big bad biker guy and he's a part of the biker gang, you know, and we we do tough [ __ ] you know. Oh, man. That
girl made good fertilizer. shut the [ __ ] up, you know. >> Well, again though, I I think I think
the investigators might have it right where I don't think I I'm starting to think that those are not his messages.
That those are something that that other people have they're trying to say. >> But you see what I'm saying is that
these guys sometimes like they boast like I'm so tough. >> Oh yeah. >> You know, it's like just knock it off.
>> Oh yeah, it definitely happens. >> But there was this other lead you were talking about that was pretty
interesting. >> Yeah. This came from remember we mentioned the website findloren.com.
There's information regarding her disappearance on there and if you if you have any information you can go there
and submit it. Uh they were collecting tips through finduren.com and it was from that site that the
family had received a tip that some say may hold the best chance for an answer. Uh this tip led to a young man by the
name of Corey Hammersley. Uh he's an inmate at the Indiana State Prison. Hammersley was once a star student and
athlete, uh, but he got in deep into the drug scene at Indiana University. >> One year after Lawrence disappearance,
Hammersley had a meltdown. He's he's high on drugs. He steps out of his apartment. He's wearing nothing but a
hat. Uh, I've seen parts of this video. It's >> The guy likes to party. >> Yeah, it's it's scary, but it's also it
>> sad, right? Well, it's a little funny, too, at some parts, but it's definitely
scary stuff because he takes out a firearm and he starts shooting into a house. >> Um, he he is he is then opening fire on
the police once they're called in and they they try to arrest him. >> Jesus. >> Now, so obviously he's guilty as sin
regarding this. He's caught red-handed being, you know, being a total uh whatever.
>> Whackad do. But uh so while he is serving time uh he's talking with another inmate and um they're talking
about this news story that comes over the TV and Hammersley tells the other inmate about a story about how Lauren
had died at a house party with a group of people that he had known. Um he's saying that they were drinking and they
were doing ecstasy and that she had oded and the guys got scared and they didn't
know what to do with her. So then they took her down to the Ohio River and they got rid of her disposing of her body.
>> Right. And this is one of the police's theories, their main theories. And and
this actually, you know, has more validity to it. You know, when >> when we don't know their sources of how
they're getting this information, are they only getting this information from this inmate or are they getting this
information from the inmate and somebody outside of that four guy circle? >> No, they were only getting this
information from an inmate that was serving time with uh Corey Hammersley. Um, so what happens is they they get
this information and like you said, it goes with one of their original theories. This is also
>> this is also one of the more simple answers to what might have happened that night and we know from doing so many of
these cases a lot of times the most simple explanation is is usually the most accurate. Um, the thing here is
though they reach out to Hammersley and they want to question him and see what he knows. Uh, he claims he doesn't know
anything. Uh and furthermore, he also states that he's not going to help the police if if he if he does come across
knowledge in the future or if he suddenly remembers something. Uh he has no he he has no wishes to help the
police in this investigation. >> Why? >> Uh you just you're just thinking screw the
police. This is not about the police, you know. This is about, you know, the family's closure, you know. Yeah. And
figuring out what happened to this this poor girl. >> Yeah. But I, you know, and I'm I'm not
going to go as far to call Cory Ham Hammersley crazy. Uh, his what he did, his actions were certainly crazy. Uh,
shooting at police officers, shooting into a house. Um, but he strikes me as a guy that doesn't doesn't give a [ __ ]
that doesn't care uh about much. He's serving 20 years in Indiana State Prison. Uh so so we can thank God that
he's not going to get out for a long time. Uh the problem is if he does know something, he's shut up about it and
he's not going to give out any more information. The thing here though is you you talked about peacocking and
sometimes [clears throat] guys say dumb stuff. Um I could see this being that situation. You know, he's in prison.
He's talking to other inmates. He sees a story that comes over and and and these
inmates, they know each other. They know, oh, that's the college kid. He went to Indiana University. He
>> Oh, college boy. >> He ain't tough, you know. Hey, college boy. >> Well, then college boy's got some
information. Some information all of a sudden that police are looking for that. To me, it it looks like probably a
peacocking situation here. >> Right. So, maybe his whole story is this a little bit of horseshit.
>> That's right. >> Right. So, just so we're pretty clear about this, you know, this guy was not
involved. He just heard rumors about this happening on campus. >> Yeah. If you believe his story, he
knows how it went down. He might know some of the people involved. Uh but >> Right. But I but but what I was saying,
the reason why the police believe this story is they have some information that somebody came forward talking about this
and I don't believe it's this person. >> I think it's another source. M >> so but that to me that's two people
telling the same story >> now we need to dive into that a little more >> I agree
>> and another thing to kind of clear up is the individual the con that the ex-wife
said hey you know this guy assaulted me look into him they actually after all the polygraph and stuff they actually
searched his property even dug in certain areas and found nothing >> and then after this they're going to
have another lead and it's a I believe a flat Asher. >> Yes. >> And this guy, he's a
>> Why didn't I said that? Yes. Like like like you got excited. >> Sound like Marv Albertton.
>> Maybe that's your thing, man. >> Marv. Uh no. Uh on January 28th, 2016, the FBI conducted a raid on a home in
Martinsville, Indiana. Uh this is approximately 20 miles north of Bloomington connected to a man sus
suspected of exposing himself to numerous women. >> Uh the FBI and other police agencies
converged on the home with Bloomington police confirming that they were involved in the search. Investigators
sifted dirt removed from a barn near the property after cadaavver dogs finished their work. Searchers would not discuss
whether anything significant was found. Um, investigators did tow away a white truck from the property. Here's that
white truck again. >> Uh, the truck might be the one connected to uh the disappearance of Lauren, but
this truck is connected to a 35year-old man by the name of Justin Wagers uh who lived with his mother and stepfather uh
at the property until his arrest. >> Well, and this doesn't rule out this individual for me because one, I think
it's weird with the white truck. >> Mhm. Uh, and just because you didn't find her remains on the property doesn't
mean that her remains weren't put somewhere else. >> You're exactly right. Uh, a little
information on Justin Wagers here. Uh, he was a registered sex offender, >> right? The aggressive dator is what he
is. >> Is that what you call? Uh, well, he's a registered sex offender. Um, at least
one news station was calling Justin the prime suspect in Lauren's disappearance.
Uh as far as far back as 1999, Wagers was arrested repeatedly for exposing himself in several Indiana communities.
Uh his criminal record includes uh intimidation, harassment, violation of pro of a protection order. There was
a single minor misdemeanor charge of battery. Uh but this was eventually dropped. So, what what I'm pointing this
out because we're not seeing what I would call a violent offender. Um, he's he's certainly infringing on other
people's rights and exposing himself. He's certainly a sexual deviate, right? >> Um, but we're,
>> but that doesn't mean that it doesn't, you know, progress. >> You're exactly right.
>> I mean, there's a lot of serial killers that they start out as peeping toms and
this guy is, you know, >> Ted Bundy's one of the more famous serial killers. started off as a peeping
tom when he was like in his teenage years, >> right? And I don't know how many of them
were flashers, >> you know, uh, you know, Ted Bundy wanted to get a look. This guy is trying to
give a look, you know, but but there, you know, with the battery charges. >> Again, I wouldn't rule this guy out.
>> Now, last year they did obtain a DNA swab from Justin Wagers. >> So, okay. So, he gave that willingly.
Well, he >> but e either way, even if he gives it willingly, you have to find her body to
connect that to him, >> right? And I want to kind of go through this for a second here because I got a
lot of thoughts on this >> regarding the DNA. So, we can say he gave it willingly, but at the time he
was jailed. Um, so sometimes in these situations I and it varies from state to state and maybe even from county to
county. Sometimes when you're in prison or you're in jail and they request these
things, it's not so much a request, if you know what I mean. It's it's sometimes you have to consent to this.
Um, I don't know what the exact case is here. They have obtained his DNA. As you
said, without there being a body, the DNA may be of little to no use at all. Part of me wonders if that's more of an
intimidation factor that maybe if you could get this guy to start talking by cuz you want this guy's mind to wander.
If he if he's guilty of something, you want him to think, "Well, why would they want my DNA?" [ __ ] they want my DNA
because >> they might >> they want to compare it to something. They found something. Oh, I better start
talking. I better, you know, now's your one chance, buddy, to tell us what you know before this starts getting real bad
for you. >> Um, I think that's the situation that we've seen here. This is still pretty
early uh regarding this Justin wagers thing. We're talking about just a little over a year, less than a year since
they've obtained the DNA. So, I wonder where this could end up going if it if it could potentially lead to something.
>> Right. And Justin's lawyer gave a statement. >> Yeah. Basically just stating that his
client has no knowledge of the case regarding the disappearance of Lawrence Spear or any other missing person.
>> Yeah. But see, >> I love how they throw that any other missing. >> Yeah, that any other missing person.
That that gives willies, man. >> Well, you want to hear something else that will creep you out?
>> Yeah, go for it. I'm ready. >> So, we have we have a murder that took place um in 2015,
>> and this has been very much linked to the Lauren Spear case. Now, this situation is strange because the woman
that went missing, her name is Hannah Wilson. Um she was at the same bar. She was at Kilroyy's Sports Bar,
>> right? um and she was drinking on campus when she when she had disappeared, right? So, very obvious links to the
Lauren case. Now, the way that this goes down is that Hannah was out drinking. She was 22 years old at the time and um
she was out drinking at this bar all night long at at uh Kilroyce. She takes a taxi cab home um and she's she's not
seen after that. >> Right. The problem here is, of course, originally the taxi cab driver is a
suspect in this case, >> of course. Obviously, >> but they have he has surveillance in his
taxi cab. >> Smart on him. >> And what they what they're able to prove what he's able to prove is that at some
point Hannah had paid her fair and left the cab. He drives off. >> Mhm. >> So, the really scary thing here is
Hannah was not abducted from the bar. She was not even really abducted on her way home.
>> Um, we don't know exactly when she was abducted, but she made it home. Her roommate states that they had heard the
door open at some point that that night. >> Wow. >> They didn't get up to investigate
because, you know, people come home late. >> Mhm. >> Um, the next morning though, they find
her belongings and her cell phone in her room and the front door is still open. Right. Which would kind of go to the
theory of being drugged and then that individual has to follow the person that they drugged.
>> And then so when she get, you know, she gets back to her house, doesn't pass out
in the taxi car. >> Mhm. >> And then and then she's abducted. Probably easier if she was drugged.
>> Yeah. The situation here, Captain, is they they have arrested a man for this.
Uh his name is Daniel Messle and he was 49 years old at the time of this. He's been convicted since then.
>> So now he's an obvious suspect in this Lauren case. >> Right. >> Uh the situation here is they were
easily able to connect this crime to Daniel because they found Daniel's cell phone at the foot at the feet of Hannah
Wilson where he had left her body. >> Right. So he goes to dump the body and he drops his phone.
>> And when they found the body, they find the phone. They quickly trace the phone
to this Daniel Metsel and they go to his home and when they get to his home they
find that he's got like scratch and claw marks all over his arm um where Hannah had put up a a significant fight and
they also find blood and hair inside of his vehicle. Um the thing >> what kind of vehicle was it? A white
truck? >> No, it was a Kia Sportage but I don't I don't know the color. >> So it was a small SUV. Okay. So, this is
definitely an individual that we have to look into. >> Right >> now, there there are some investigators
that have pointed out that they they're a little concerned about Daniel being a suspect in Lauren's case, and their
thought is that he he couldn't success successfully pull off this murder and get away with it. This the murder of
Hannah Wilson, right? >> Uh that he was pretty easily caught. Um >> Yeah, but he made one big mistake.
>> He made one big mistake. You're exactly right. So, it's like, you know, >> you take away that one mistake, do they
still get their guy? >> They might never have got their guy. And then now you have two girls going
missing from the same area. >> Mhm. >> And and and both we're assuming are deceased.
>> Yeah. So, so I I want to point this out because the investigators don't think
that this is a great lead. Um, however, the judge at his sentencing, um, when he
sentenced, they made a the judge made a remark about a a student that was attacked in 2009 on the college campus,
>> right? >> This was a drunk girl that got persuaded to get into a vehicle. She's attacked.
She fights off the attacker and she gets out and she flees. She flees the area. Now, she's not able to provide a vehicle
description >> uh regarding the attack itself, but I found it very curious that the judge
kind of threw that out there during during his trial. >> Maybe he knows a little more than we
know. >> So, where you have the investigators that might not think he's a potential
suspect, you certainly have somebody close to a murder case that seems to think he's capable and probably should
be suspected in other attacks or maybe disappearance of Lauren. Okay. So, with all this on the table, where do we go
from here? What's your thoughts? >> Uh, the thing, the only thing that I like about this case, it's I mean, it's
tragic. We have this missing girl. She who knows how much partying she was doing that night, right?
>> But regardless, >> or how much party she was how much partying she was doing, you know, months
or years prior, >> right? There's a couple thoughts I have on this. I'm I'm pretty much a live and
let live person. you know, do do your thing as long as it doesn't bother me. Um, that kind of thing. Um, so, you
know, she can do what she wants. I don't I'm not going to go out and fault these
guys that she was hanging out with >> just because they didn't take her home or they didn't put her to bed. At some
point, we're all adults. And and the thing is I I hate the expression when when somebody has to fess up to
something or when when somebody has to admit to something, they go >> or or confronted with something, they
go, "Oh, well, I was drunk." Well, that's not an excuse. It's not really an excuse. As an adult, whether you be 20,
whether you be 30, 40 years old, you choose to drink, if you choose to do certain drugs, well, there could be
consequences that come with those actions. Now, I'm not putting this on Lauren either, but I can't fault those
guys just for the fact that she didn't make it home safe. Uh, >> well, whether you're a man or a woman,
you know, when you go out drinking, when you go out partying with anybody, you you have to monitor what you're doing
because you're putting yourself at risk. >> And and so, you know, she was doing that. And I don't fault her at all, but,
you know, those are they're dangerous behaviors. and you have a responsibility to to yourself to to keep yourself safe
and to put yourself in smart situations and not bad situations. The one thing I do like about this case though, Captain,
is it seems to, you know, we're almost seven years, we're almost six years, excuse me, removed from this thing, but
this case seems to like not go cold. Like every couple months there seems to be a new coincidence or a new lead or a
new possible suspect. Uh, I do like that because that that to me points that we might get an answer someday,
>> right? We might be getting closer to to a resolution on this. >> Yeah. And Lauren's parents have kind of
reserved themselves to the fact that that that their daughter's probably not alive anymore. Um, and but they still
need answers. They still deserve answers. Uh, and I hope that they get them. And I think that we might see
something. We have these these other two guys that are both locked up now. We got
the Flasher and we got this other this uh other guy that horribly killed this young woman. Um those are good strong
leads. The thing though too is these guys if you are if you're if you were her friend,
>> the four guys that you're talking about actually Lauren's friend, it's time to
cooperate a little more. >> Um and and I recommend you do that with your attorney at your side. But but I
think it's time to I think it's time to cooperate a little more. And on top of that, I also think that the police
should regarding the surveillance footage. Can they definitively say that she was standing at that intersection
after 4:30 a.m. after leaving the apartment? And was she in fact by herself? >> Yeah. And I I think like you said, if
you guys were friends, even if you're just acquaintances, be a man. you know, with all this talk
about, you know, strong women, strong men, just be a man, come forward, you know, do the right thing and and if if
you know something, if you don't, >> then I then I do apologize. And it's just because your involvement, you've
been thrown under the bus. And I want I couldn't imagine what that feels like. >> Yeah.
>> So, on one side, if you know something, come forward. And if you don't, then you
know, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. But those were also you you decided to make those choices by going
out and partying with her. >> You're exactly right. >> You know, you have to deal with those
consequences. >> I wish I had like a definitive theory of what I thought happened.
>> There's too much gray in this case. >> Yeah. And and just when I start going,
now I think these guys know something that they're just not bringing up. I then there's, you know, this flasher
guy, >> this other murder, and I and I think that murder is telling. I think you're
right, >> you know, and I think again, how are you going to get that guy to crack? Um I I
don't know. >> Yeah, I agree. I The thing here is I do think this case will develop more. I do
think that we probably will see a resolve to it. Uh the thing is it's that's what I didn't like about this
case is that there there is that gray area and it's very tough to give a definitive uh answer or theory as to
what we think happened here. If anybody has any other leads or theories, feel free to post those on our blog at true
crimegar.com. Do we have a recommended reading for this week? This week, we are recommending The Last Victim by Jason
Ross. Um, this this whole book thing that Jason Ross put together didn't start off as a book idea. This
originally was a college course assignment which turned into it escalated into a dangerous obsession.
>> Back when [clears throat] Jason Ross was 18 years old, he was an honor student.
Uh he wrote to some very bad men. Uh men whose bodies body counts had made criminal history. These are Dmer,
Manson, Ramirez, and Gayy. uh he kind of posed himself pretending to be kind of one of their ideal victims in his
correspondence with them. Uh and he kind of lured them in to get uh some truths and get some information from them. So
one by one they end up writing him back. They start showering him with their madness and their violent fantasies. Uh
and this kind of thing really spun out of control when John Wayne Gasey said that he would like to meet Jason and
eventually Jason goes to meet him. So, pick this up. It's a very interesting book. It's called The Last Victim by
Jason Ross. You can do that by going to our website, truerimeg.com, and click on
the recommended page. >> And I can't thank you enough. I can't I can't thank you enough.
>> Oh, you're welcome. >> Can't stop [laughter] I can't stop thanking you, Nick. No. Uh, thanks for
everybody for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Make sure you follow us on Snapchat, Twitter, Untapped,
YouTube, whatever. Much love to you guys. And until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
[music] [music]

Lauren Spierer /// Part 2 /// True Crime Garage

Episode: 92

Missing Person /// Lauren Spierer

Last Seen /// June 3rd, 2011 Bloomington, Indiana

Indiana University Junior

Age: 20

Blonde Hair, Blue Eyes

Tipline: 812.339.4477

Email: Helpfindlauren@gmail.com

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the mysterious disappearance of Indiana University student Lauren Spear and the various theories surrounding her case.

Key points

The Disappearance of Lauren Spear. Exploring the mysterious case of a missing Indiana University student last seen in 2011.
Inner Circle Theory. Could someone close to Lauren be involved in her disappearance?
Drugging and Overdose Theories. Examining theories around drugging and potential overdose on the night of Lauren's disappearance.
The Dangerous Cocktail. A mix of alcohol, cocaine, and clonopin raises serious concerns about Lauren's condition.
Suspicious Friends. Lauren's family suspects her friends know more than they're telling, raising questions about their involvement.
The Ex-Con Connection. A former convict's suspicious behavior and threats to his ex-wife lead investigators to consider him a suspect.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen and it's good to see you beautiful people.

Opening remarks from the host.

0:56WatchDec 4, 2025

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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