Glen Helzer and the Children of Thunder (Part 2) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is More Bidar. [Music] There it is. You know, one time we were
like, "We're going to stop singing." And then we said, "We never will." Yeah. It's just We never have. We never will.
It's who we are. Yeah. I wouldn't want you to change. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I never will. Although, I have
changed a lot. I realized recently how [ __ ] old I am. Yeah. I mean, we're all in that space now. You hit 29. I
don't know what anyone's talking about anymore than these young kids saying words. It's It's a little blissful,
though. It kind of is cuz you're just like, I don't know what that is. I don't want to. Yeah. I don't want to. Um, it's
such a difference though from when we started this, but I was 21 when we started this. That's crazy. Which is I
was like just about to turn 22, but yeah, that feels like a whole other person now. Entirely different people.
What an evolution listening to this. Must be. Yeah, people have said that before. Like people I get comments a lot
that are like, I feel like I've watched you grow up. I'm like, yeah, pretty much. Me, too. I'm like, I feel like you
all have as well. Um, but yeah, it's crazy. I stayed up really late last night and I'm feeling it today. Yeah.
You know, that's part of being old. That's what I mean. Yeah. I used to stay up until like 2:00 in the morning and
then come record and be like, "Yeah, woohoo. Let's go." Now I'm like, "Hey weirdos, I have a headache and I didn't
even drink anything." And my sleep thing says I didn't get optimal sleep on my my
Aura My Aura Ring sleep score is 68 today. Yeah, we're we're not sponsored by Aura Ring. But if you sponsor us, cuz
we both have one. Ash convinced me to get one cuz I've been trying to like fix my sleep habits cuz I'm a good sleeper
when I sleep. Me too. But I'm not I don't have good habits about like going to bed at a normal hour and you know the
same time. And it's actually so beneficial to your body and like your hormone balance to go to sleep and wake
up around the same time even on your days off which on my days off I'm I'm out. I'm sleeping in. I'm staying up
till like 2 o'clock in the morning to watch TV, but then I'm sleeping in. Oh, yeah. No, and that's so bad. But then I
feel And then it's hard to like when you get back into the week, it's like recal.
Yeah. Yeah. And I just need to like I've been wanting to like make sure cuz actually my kids came home and they have
health class in their curriculum obviously. And so um shout out to their health teacher cuz they [ __ ] love
their health teacher. They do. We're not going to name them, but shout out to that person is great. Uh, so but they
came home one day and they were like, "Mama, guess what I learned today?" And I was like, "Oh, boy. What?" And they
were like, "Sitting is the new smoking." And I was like, "Whoa, I've been telling
you that." I know. And that hit. That hit. They said it. I was like, "Oh, they're like teaching that." Like that's
a real thing now. And we sit so much. We're [ __ ] podcasters cuz we're recording sitting here. like taking
sitting down or we're researching sitting down or like I'm writing sitting down like I'm I was like, "Oh, I got to
change this shit." So, I think the again, not an ad. No, the aura ring I think is helping um like uh just make me
understand where my my times of sediment living are sitting in the middle of my day so that I can kind of change it up
and be like, you know what, take a walk around the neighborhood. Yeah, I just like it better than like some other
things I've tried in the past, too. Cuz it this really does feel like an ad, but
it's not. It stays charged like so much longer. Like, you know, we just It's not
an ad. We just like it a lot. This is an organic just like we dig it. No, it's also like not it's like it's an
investment, but it's not crazy expensive for what you get out of it. I think it's
definitely But again, not an ad. So, if you want to buy one, do it. If you don't, no skin off of my nose. Yeah. But
anyway, it's just organic. Um, I'm trying to think of anything else fun that that has occurred. We're planning a
fairy birthday party for Ma. Oh, yes. It's my mom's 79th birthday. And 79 or 78? 79. [ __ ] Yeah. You're sure. I'm
positive. Are you sure you know how old your mom is? God damn. I mean, I don't know how
old my mom is. She was 30 79. Damn. And uh, we decided we're going to throw her a to She loves fairies. She's like a
woodland creature. like she would live in a fantasy to the fairies. Um she's always believed in fairies. She's always
told me about fairies. She used to take us out to talk to the fairies. We made fairy gardens. All the good stuff. So I
was like, she's so cool. We got to do a fairy theme. So I'm going full fairy theme for this and I'm excited about it.
I'm making an enchanted fairy cake which I will share with you um when I make it.
I'm going to be up to my ears in cake this weekend. Yeah. It's also my nephew's third birthday and I'm making
his blippy cake. Oh, fun. So I got a fairy cake and a blippy cake going on. Fairy cake and blippy cake. And I just
did a recital cake, too, which I made a Barbie cake. That was fun. Your cake and
that was amazing. I've been caking in these streets. True. But yeah, that's that's what's up with us. Aura rings and
fairy parties. There was another thing I was about to talk about, but I forgot. Say, oh, um, this is just a quick little
recommendation. I think it's coming out in September. Um, but I'm reading Richard Chismar's new book that's coming
out in September. Um, and it's called Widow's Point, The Complete Haunting. It sounds really good. This I mean, I'm
going to I'll post it and everything like that, but guys, pre-order this book when you can because I'm telling you,
this book is so [ __ ] good. It literally first time since reading Salem's Lot when I was like literally 12
that I could not sleep one night. I couldn't fall asleep. Oh, damn. If you felt that way, I'm going to be scared
shitless. I felt like super It was It's so spooky. I love It's like the perfect vibes for like, you know, summer vibes
and like, you know, it's got it's just got the right ghost story. Creeped out. Yeah. I'm telling you, it's
called Widow's Point. It'll be out in September. Uh, look for it. Again, this is also not an ad. It's just these are
just organic things that are real. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's that's one of my little This is what I'm doing right now.
I love that. Yeah. And I guess we should get back into this story. Yeah, I already told you everything I'm doing
right now. I told you all the things. Okay. Yeah, I'm old. I don't have that much going on anymore. None of us do.
All right. Wait, but this is part two. And actually, I have something to say. I have something to say. I have something
to say. We recorded the part one at like the end of the week and usually like sometimes we'll record them like closer
together. I have been thinking about this case and wanting to know what happened. I actually love to hear that.
Yeah. No, for real. Yeah. This is an interesting one. really sad but really interesting. You left on such a
cliffhanger. Yeah, we when we last spoke, we were talking about Glenn Taylor Helzer, just talking about who he
was, his life before all of this. Um, we discussed the disappearance of Ivan and
Annette Steinman, and we talked about the murders of Jennifer and James and Marin County. Yes. Um, and we were just
kind of backtracking to talk about uh we were referring to Taylor just for to make it easy, but Glenn Taylor Hower.
Mhm. Um, so we talked about his marriage. We talked about how he was like super into the Mormon church. He
had a very radicalized grandfather that he lived with for a while that he was feeling a lot of anxiety about not
living up to the standards. Uh, a lot going on. He also happened to um work at uh Morgan Stanley as a financial adviser
and that was something that was mentioned in the beginning as well. It came full circle at the end. It did. So,
um, you know, that was just my little quick little summary of the first part, but go listen to the first part if you
haven't listened to it, cuz otherwise you're going to be a little lost here. Um, so in conquered now, after this, uh,
after the murders in Marane County, investigators continued to struggle to find any evidence that could indicate
what the hell happened to Ivan and Annette Steinman. Yeah, at this point, they're just like lost. A few days after
their disappearance, police in Oakland, California, located their minivan. Uh, it had been abandoned in a pretty bad
part of the city, but there was no signs of Ivan and Annette, which not good. Just desperate to make progress, a
spokesperson for the Conquered Police Department went on a local news program, or a few of them really, and made a plea
to the public. They were just asking for anyone to come forward if they knew anything that could help find Ivan and
Annette. They were desperate at this point. Vicky Ston, who was a manager of CalFed, was watching TV, happened to be
watching TV the night that they made these pleased the photo of Ivan and Annette
immediately. In fact, just a few days before that, Vicki had a strange encounter with a
customer at work that involved the Steinman's. Oh. So, she called the conquered police and she reported
everything she knew. Now, on the afternoon of August 1st, Vicki was working in her office when one of the
tellers asked if she maybe had a minute to just speak with a customer. Vicki said she did, but she was not really
expecting what was going to happen. According to Vicki, the customer was what she described as a larger blonde
woman in a wheelchair dressed in a bright lime green pants suit, large cowboy hat, and black driving gloves,
which is sounds like a [ __ ] sleigh. Interesting. The woman introduced herself as Jackie and
immediately launched into a very strange, very convoluted story about two of Vickiy's customers, Ivan and Annette
Steinman. According to Jackie, the Steinman's granddaughter, Selena Bishop, was in desperate need of Do you Does
that sound familiar? Oh, yeah. Selena Bishop was in desperate need of medical attention in San Diego, and the elderly
couple had agreed to pay for the surgery, but they needed to put the money into Selena's account. Mhm. At
that point, Jackie presented two checks drawn on the Steinman's account. One in the amount of $67,000 and another in the
amount of $33,000. Both had been signed allegedly by Ivan Steinman. That's weird. To Vicki, who
had worked at various banks for more than a decade, uh, this was bizarre. red flag.
The Steinmans had been customers of the bank for years, like forever, and had always done their own banking. Yeah. So,
it was pretty strange that they would just send a stranger to deposit the money into an account of a person she'd
never heard of. And a stranger in a lime green pants suit, no less, and cowboy hat. And like, yeah, it's like and black
driving. Like, it's a little cray cray. This is a lot to take in. And like again, putting the money into an account
of a person that Vicki had never heard of before. Yeah. like Selena is not their granddaughter at all. So Vicki
explained to Jackie that the situation was unusual. And said she would need to call the Steinman's to get their
approval. However, when the they called the number on the account, no one answered. Mhm. Weird. Jackie said, "Oh,
they just moved." And handed Vicki a different phone number. So Vicki placed the call to the new number and a man
answered, but it did not sound like Ivan Steinman. It sounded like the voice of a
young man, right? Both Jackie and the man on the phone repeated that it was very important that the money get into
the account and cleared as soon as possible as time was of the essence. I'm like, guys, you got to be a little less
sus. And also to like prey on people like this is so [ __ ] up and disgusting. To make Vicki feel like
she's this this poor girl this Vicki was sympathetic obviously and was feeling some type of way about this, but
she has a job to do. Yeah. She explained to Jackie that she needed to speak with
the account manager at Morgan Stanley, but like this is too weird and this was probably way above her at this point. So
that call proved equally unsuccessful since Vicki didn't have the couple's social security numbers and nobody else
could give them. Mhm. She explained as much to Jackie who said she would get the numbers and be back as soon as
possible. Okay. As she wheeled herself out of the office and then out of the building, it occurred to Vicki that
Jackie had left through the front door. The bank had no ramp at the front door, and customers using wheelchairs always
entered via an elevator from the second floor parking lot. Leaving through the front door, Jackie would have had to
navigate 16 stone steps down to the street, which would have been um impossible. Pretty difficult, dangerous
for someone to do in a wheelchair. What the [ __ ] Impossible is probably the better word for it. Also, good on Vicki
though for having like such a strange situation take place. Like obviously that would be pretty confusing and you'd
just be sitting there like the wherewithal to be eagle-eyed about the whole thing and observe cuz somebody
else frankly like I might have missed that cuz you might have just been like what the like not paid attention. Yeah,
good on her. Yeah, Vicky Ston's story connected the Steinman's case now to the murders in Marane County because Selena
is Jennifer's daughter. This is a strange case, bro. And now those two cases are also connected to the missing
person's case of Selena Bishop because we don't know where she is. Right. Right. Right. But it was only the
beginning of a much stranger story somehow. I had a feeling back in Marane County, sheriff's officers had received
a warrant for Justin Heler's gun. Justin is Glenn Taylor's brother. Yes. Which they suspected had been used in the
murders of Jennifer and James a few days earlier cuz he had recently bought a 9mm. 9 mm. When they arrived at the
small house on Saddlewood Court, detectives were first met at the door by Justin, who let them enter. Once inside,
they also met Justin's brother, Glenn Taylor Heler, and Justin's girlfriend, Don Godman. Now, Justin was presented
with the warrant, but he claimed he no longer had the gun. No matter what, they were going to search the house, so they
did, and they found a number of surprising and very alarming things. Oh, good. In addition to a large amount of
ecstasy found in the home, they also discovered rope, leg irons, legs. A taser. Yeah. A taser, and several
documents that appeared to belong to Ivan Steinman. Oh, [ __ ] Based on the discovery of the drugs alone,
investigators placed the homeowners, Justin and Taylor, under arrest. But before they could get the handcuffs on
Taylor, he broke away and ran wearing only his underwear. No. Mhm. So, the team of investigators spread out across
the neighborhood trying to search for him, but he didn't appear to be anywhere. In the meantime, Taylor found
himself in the backyard of a neighbor who spotted him in the yard. Thinking the young man was, you know, just one of
her son's friends, she opened the door and was like, "Do you need help, friend? Like, what's going on?" As soon as he
was inside the house, he grabbed a large kitchen knife and took the woman hostage. Oh, [ __ ] Talk about people.
Never help people. after never help. Like just lock your door and go about your business and call someone. Uh after
cutting his hair in their kitchen and stealing some of her son's clothing, Taylor left the house and began to run
again without her now. Without her now. Okay. What the [ __ ] He hadn't made it more than a few hundred feet when he ran
straight into two sheriff's deputies who were able to take him into custody without incident. Dude, so went through
all that just to run straight into two sheriff's deputies. What a dumbass. So that afternoon, an announcement was made
about the rest of the Helzers and Dawn. Um, but detectives were careful not to reveal too much information to the
press, as they often are, including whether Taylor was Selena Bishop's boyfriend, cuz remember back that's who
we're connecting him to. Previously known as Jordan. Remember, we found out he was being referred to as Jordan.
Found out once they figured out who he was and they looked into it, it is Glenn Taylor. It is. Okay. Um, that all
changed later that afternoon though when a horrible discovery was made in Sacramento County. Oh no, was it Selena?
On the afternoon of August 8th, the manager of Willow Burm Marina, Bolton Lindon, was riding his jet ski on the
Sacramento River Delta, when he spotted three large duffel bags floating in the water. Lyndon dragged the bags back to
shore cuz he was thinking they're, you know, I don't know what's in these. They're duffel bags, but maybe something
inside will tell me who these belong to. Yeah. So, we opened them up. Inside the
first bag, Lyndon discovered a human head and what he described as quote, "A lot of body parts." Oh, Christ. Lyndon
ran to the nearest phone immediately and reported it to the authorities who arrived at the scene very quickly. Um,
Lyndon's wife, Rachel, said, "It was creepy when they lifted up the canvas bag. You could see blood mixed with the
water. We knew right away this was trouble." Oh, wow. And he was just out on his jet ski. Yeah. Just having a nice
time. Yeah. Investigators assembled a large dive team and by the end of the day they had recovered nine duffel bags.
What the [ __ ] All containing human remains wrapped individually in plastic. Oh, so is this everybody? So the duffel
bags themselves had been slit along the sides probably to allow water inside and
sink the bags. Yeah. Uh, in the statement to the press, Sacramento County Sheriff Sergeant Dennis Arnol
said, "This is an area that lends itself to the disposing of evidence of bodies.
It's remote. It's dark. And if you want to dump something here, you're not likely to get caught." Maybe word that
differently. Maybe don't tell everybody that. Yeah, maybe don't make that public. Unless you're going to make that
uh now a heavily guarded area for real. Um, according to Arnull, it was most likely that the bags had been dropped
off the side of the Highway 12 bridge about a mile and a half away, and they floated to where they were discovered.
Mhm. It didn't take long to identify two of the bodies as those of Ivan and Annette Steinman. Oh, that's awful. But
the third body was more challenging to identify. It appeared that a portion of skin had been removed from the shoulder
of the third victim, which was where Selena Bishop was known to have had a tattoo. Yep. But detectives didn't want
to jump to conclusions of of course. Still, the discovery of the bodies broke the case open, and investigators were
finally willing to disclose some more facts about the case to the press, including that the man previously
referred to as Jordan was in fact Glenn Taylor. Mhm. Finally, when the mug shots
were shown to Vicky Ston from Caled, she confirmed that the woman who introduced
herself as Jackie was Don Godman. Yeah. Not wheelchair bound. Nope. From the moment they were arrested, Taylor
refused to speak to police about anything. But when the discoveries of the bodies were made and the
identification of Selena Bishop's remains were was made a short time later. Don and Justin, now facing very
serious charges suddenly began cooperating. Imagine that. Based on their account of events, the entire
scheme sounded like a fairly straightforward extortion and murder case. While still working at Morgan
Stanley years earlier, Taylor had been the Steinman's account manager. Wow, what a piece of [ __ ] And knew they had
a decent amount of money saved in their account. On the night of July 31st, Taylor and Justin visited the Steinman's
at their house where they were spotted by the couple's neighbor who thought they were Mormon missionaries. That
night, they kidnapped the couple and brought them back to Justin and Taylor's home, where with the help of Dawn, they
tortured them for days. Oh. in order to get them to sign the checks that Don eventually tried to deposit into the
account in Selena's name at Caled. What the [ __ ] Once they got what they wanted
from the Steinman's, they murdered the couple. According to the coroner's report, Annette's cause of death was a
large knife wound across her throat. Oh, and Ivan died from blunt force trauma. And these people just lived like a
beautiful life together, had children, were enjoying their retirement. And Ivan had died from blunt force
trauma, apparently after Taylor had repeatedly beat the man's head against the floor.
This is an elderly couple. This is horrific. Now, according to Justin and Dawn, Selena Bishop had nothing to do
with the kidnapping, murder, or extortion plot. Taylor had met Selena a few months earlier and recognizing that
she was somewhat naive and eager to please. He lured her into the scheme by pretending to have a romantic interest
in her. So [ __ ] up. Selena's function in the plot was basically limited to opening the bank account in her name.
Yeah. But she was under a totally different like what she thought was actually happening here was had nothing
to do with this. Yeah. She thought she was just helping him as like because his ex-wife, like he didn't want his ex-wife
to get like his new [ __ ] money or whatever. Yeah. Now, again, she intended it was just going to be to hide that
money from his ex-wife, but once her function in the plot had been served, Selena was killed with a single blow to
the head from a hammer. Holy [ __ ] these guys are brutal. They're brutal. When it
came to the deaths of Selena's mother, Jennifer, and her boyfriend, Jim, their connection was even more tenuous, and
their deaths some like somehow even an escalated version of tragic. Taylor had gone out of his way to avoid meeting
Selena's friends and family, specifically because he knew there was a chance they could link him back to her
once he committed the murders. Right. He had been mostly successful in this, but
then Jennifer was determined to meet him and had managed to do so about a month before the murders and a few times
remember she stopped by, right? Knowing that she could easily trace him back to her daughter, Taylor and Justin went to
Selena's apartment in the early morning hours of August 3rd. There they shot and
killed Jennifer in order to prevent her from identifying him later. Wow. Jim Gamble was murdered simply because he
was in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's horrific. Based on the statements from John Don and Justin, it
was as investigators basically assumed, an extortion and murder plot. Like very like cut and dry. The problem though was
that while the evidence collected at Taylor and Justin's home, including significant blood evidence, by the way,
matched their statements, detectives still didn't have the physical evidence inconclusively linking the three
suspects to the victims. Mhm. Fortunately, that all changed when detectives in Maring County received a
call from a woman named Deborah Mlanahan. As it turned out, Mlanahan had exactly
what investigators were looking for and so much more. Tell me everything. Like Don, Deborah met Justin and Taylor
several years earlier when they were all attending the LDS church in Danville. Although she had been raised in the
Mormon church, Deborah considered herself to be more of like a free spirit and associated as much more of like she
decided like the being a Wiccan and like the new age movement. Hell yeah. She was
more into that than she was the church. Retweet. Not long after meeting, Deborah
began a brief affair with Taylor, which soon came to involve Dawn and Justin from time to time. Mhm. When she heard
about the murders and, you know, read that investigators were asking for the public's help in finding more
information, Deborah came forward with what proved to be key pieces that brought the case to focus. According to
Deborah, about a week earlier, Taylor and Justin had visited her apartment and asked if she could store a small safe
there for a few weeks. No. Always no. No. Period. Knowing that Taylor occasionally dealt drugs, she assumed he
was keeping his product inside and didn't want it to be found. You know what they say about assumptions. Yeah.
In light of the murder charges, however, she thought it would be best to hand the
safe over to author authorities, which is very smart. She later said, "I didn't feel good about having that safe in my
house. It took some time, but eventually detectives were able to get it open. And
inside they found the Steinman's photo identification and financial records and the 9 mm handgun used to kill Jennifer
and Jim Gamble. Stop it. Can you imagine realizing that you had all of that in your possession? You had a murder weapon
in your possession and had no idea. That's why you don't help people. No, don't help people. That is a the perfect
example of why you don't help people. The evidence was exactly what the investigators needed to secure an easy
conviction and hope they might even be able to get the accused to accept a plea deal. But it turned out that Deborah had
a lot more to say about Taylor Helzer than anyone expected. Deborah Mlanahan confirmed that the
Steinman's had probably been killed for their money, but the money was just a means to a much more elaborate and
bizarre end. Although Taylor, Justin, and Don didn't trust Deborah enough to tell her all of their plans, they did
impart some details on her. Oh. According to Deborah, the group, who referred to themselves in their
movements as the children of Thunder. Stop it. Believed that Taylor was a prophet who communicated directly with
God. God's never going to tell you to murder people. No, he's not. I mean, at least in my opinion, he's not feel like
I feel like that's not your God being an awesome God. That would No, exactly. That would that's like your god supposed
to be an awesome god. The actual there's a whole song. Yeah. And there there's that's the opposite. The only reason I
know that's a song is because I listened to sub sexy unique podcast and they put
a bonus episode out the other day. That's our pod is an awesome pod and they sang the song. I love it. But no,
that's not No, your god is not going to tell you to kill people. No, that's just
not going to happen. No. So they believed though that Taylor had been instructed by God to travel back to
Brazil where he would convert others to his cause and train an army of Brazilian
orphans to become assassins working on the group's behalf. That's some drugfueled thought. That's
also that's some drugfueled thought. These things are always so [ __ ] complicated. Yeah. Nothing in life needs
to be this complicated. No. Just go about your business. Stop worrying about other people. Stop doing [ __ ] to
other people. What are we doing? Don't train Brazilian children to become Brazilian orphans. Orphans. Yeah. What
the [ __ ] What the [ __ ] What the [ __ ] is correct? The ultimate purpose of the
children of thunder was for Taylor to lead them in overthrowing the Mormon church and what they referred to as the
days of thunder or the second coming of Christ. Guys, the Mormon church is [ __ ] huge. It's you're not
overthrown. It's omnipotent. All you have to do, here's a great way to not deal with the Mor Mormon church. Don't
deal with the Mormon church. Yeah, just leave. That's the end of it. I know it's
I know it's hard to leave the Mormon church. I'm not like I'm not making light of that, but but it's much harder
to uh come up with an entire murder plot and go and go to prison for murder charges. And again, we're not saying
it's easy to get out of any religion. I myself have not been in a religion that I had to tear myself out of or deal with
like the consequences of that. So, just know that right now. Yeah, there's no reason to say it cuz we know it. I'm not
Nobody's saying that. No, no, no. It's awful. I can't imagine. But if you're coming up with is it is it harder to do
that or to travel to Brazil and train an army of Brazilian orphans to overthrow a
church? Yeah, I would say the latter. Or is it on the same level? I don't know. But either way, it's hard. I would say
the latter. No pun intended. No pun intended. And that's it's no matter what. This is very over complicated. And
it's and this is very not okay. It's also just very like this guy was like staying up all night doing drugs, doing
ecstasy, like doing crazy [ __ ] I'm like this is not good thinking. This is not
like solid. This is not clear thinking. This is not any of that. And it's like it's so scary this kind of stuff cuz
it's like where do you get to that point? Like that's it's also just I can't imagine like my parents being
killed for that purpose and finding that out after they lived their whole lives and were just enjoying retirement. Poor
Selena just thinks she meets this nice guy wants to help him of this guy to use his former job as like an financial
advisor to do this cuz I'm like first of all you're a piece of [ __ ] and two you're so [ __ ] easily traceable
right? Of course they're gonna connect it back to you. But that's why it's so you gotta be [ __ ] dumb. That's why
it's so obvious that it's not clear thinking. Like he thought he was this mastermind. I'm like, "No, you're a
[ __ ] idiot." No, they can easily trace that back to you. You had access to that. Thankfully, you're dumb. Right
away, someone's going to trace it back to you. Wow. It's ridiculous. I was wondering where the Children of Thunder
came into. Here it is. Wow. Uh, so the group functioned basically like, you know, your run-of-the-mill cult. Uh, the
Children of Thunder was like, you know, most cults that you hear about in the sense that it's built around one single
very charismatic uh very bullshitty leader, you know, always. Uh, in their case, Taylor developed a list of beliefs
that, you know, they were all supposed to adhere to, and again, very cult-like behavior. Um, which he referred to as
the 12 principles of magic. Okay, I'm not sure where magic comes into this whole thing, but here we are.
Um, I can paraphrase them here. And Dave uh helped me very much paraphrasing these because wow. Um, one, he meaning
God is already perfect, so he could do no wrong. Okay. Uh, two, there was no such thing as right or wrong. Wrong. No
wrong. We're contradicting ourselves already. Uh, three, he was all powerful and the creator of everything in his
life. So then he created the Mormon church and you don't have to overthrow it. Yeah. Four, life was always right. I
thought there was no wrong concept of right or wrong, but okay. Life was always right and they should embrace all
the results of it. This whole thing is contradictory. All the results of life they created for
themselves. But I thought God created it. Six, we believe nothing and perceive the world without fear. Then why are you
making rules if you don't believe anything? Seven, our perceptions are always right. Okay. Okay. I thought
there was no concept of right and wrong. Uh, eight. Unconditional fearless love was the most profound in the universe.
Overthrowing a church doesn't sound like unconditional love. No. And killing people doesn't really make me think
you're a loving person. Uh, nine. Spirit knew everything. 10. One gives total control by losing control. Oh, that's
just cults. Uh, 11. What goes around comes around. I believe that karma. I'm also like, so you're going to kill three
people? Excuse me. That's coming around, my friend. Yeah. 12. There was a higher
person than Taylor, Jesus Christ, the son of the father. Isn't that just the Bible? Pretty sure.
I don't know. I don't know. So, there's that. Uh, those are wild ass principles that literally contradict themselves
from the second they right from the jump. Like, hello. Uh, like starting line just there's no right or wrong. I'm
right. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. According to Deborah Mlanahan, uh, in the weeks before the murders, Taylor and
Justin had tried to find the money to fund their movement from family members and associates and had wildly been
unsuccessful. Uh, when they failed at that, Taylor began devising a new plan where he would just extort the money
from his former Morgan Stanley clients, Ivan and Annette Steinman. And from there, the scheme continued to spiral
out of control until it came to include killing Selena Bishop, Jennifer Valerin,
and Jim Gamble. Okay. All to fund the children of thunder and their belief that they could somehow bring the second
coming and overthrow the Mormon church. Okay. Now, now that they had, you know, the full story, investigators took
everything to the district attorney who started drafting up plea agreements. And
the district attorney said, "What the [ __ ] is all this? What have you brought me?" Uh, but before they could put any
deal on the table, Don and Justin decided to stop cooperating with the investigation. Okay, cool. So then you
don't get a deal. In terms of Don Godman, detectives decided she had been too heavil he heavily manipulated by
Taylor and would require psychological deprogramming before her testimony could be of any value. Oh wow. Yeah, this runs
deep. Taylor and Justin, on the other hand, decided they would rather take their chances with trial. Good luck,
boys. Good. With all the delays and motions put forth by Justin and Taylor's lawyers, nearly 5 years passed before
anyone saw the inside of a courtroom. Five years? That's a long time. We've seen delays, but 5 years is wild. In
that time, the bizarre claims of cuz then it started coming like it took on a life of its own. The terms like the the
phrases wiccan sex cults. Oh yeah. Rituals all fueled the local tabloids in that 5 years. Like just went nuts. Who's
going to ever get sick of that? Exactly. At the same time, Don Godman had changed
her mind and accepted a plea deal from the district attorney. What' she get? In exchange for a guilty plea and agreeing
to testify against Taylor and Justin, she would receive a sentence of 38 years in prison. Okay. I'm I'm glad she still
gets a lot of time. 25 years for the murders and 13 for the extortion and the additional crimes. Good. In a pre-trial
hearing leading up to Justin's trial, Dawn told the story of the murders and their plan to extort the Steinman's in
graphic detail. Um she said, "He looked at me and he said, "Spirit says you get to know this isn't a dream." and then he
cut her throat. Oh. Talking about a net. Yeah. Don said u that's what Don told investigators. Um she also confirmed
that the extortion and murders were all part of Taylor's plan to raise $1 million to form a self-help group called
Transform America. The goal of which was to quote hasten Christ's return to Earth. No thank you. We just want to we
want to speed them up. No thank you. Now, maybe sensing which way the winds were
blowing just before the trial was about to begin. Taylor Helzer changed his plea
from not guilty to guilty on all counts. Probably smart. Um, yeah, and he was going to be sentenced to death. Uh,
Justin, on the other hand, maintained a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, and the case went to trial in
the spring of 2004. Over the course of the six weeks, the prosecution called more than a hundred
witnesses and presented a mountain of evidence linking Justin Helzer to the murders of all five people. Not as a
passive member of the group, but as a very active participant in their deaths as well. Uh in his opening statement to
the jury, Deputy District Attorney Hal Jwitt presented what he called a tale of religious fanaticism, replete with uh
declarations of war on Satan and dreams of a utopian paradise. Huh? Imagine that
being part of the opening statement. I would be locked. I would be sat like let's go. Um and that would be that's
what he presented as their motive. Uh but in the end, JW argued it was Taylor's quest for money and power over
others that had really led to their deaths. And he couldn't have achieved that without Justin's help. Uh on June
15th, 2004, the jury deliberated. After just two days, they returned five guilty verdicts
for each charge of first-degree murder faced by Justin. Also, each charge included special circumstances on
multiple counts of murder, kidnapping, robbery, burglary, and extortion. The jury also determined that Justin was
sane when he committed the murders. Oh, and he received the death penalty as well. So, him and his brother uh on the
charge of possessing methamphetamine with intent to sell, he was found not guilty. Okay. Okay, so there's that for
him. Justin and Taylor were sent to San Quentin to serve their sentences where in 2010, Justin attempted to end his
life by stabbing two ballpoint pens into his eyes. He thought that was going to end his
life. Yeah. Like that's just going to really [ __ ] [ __ ] up your eyes. It was unsuccessful. Um did result in blindness
in both eyes and brain trauma though. Oh, so I guess you know I guess that one tenant was true. What goes around comes
around, I suppose. Giving Edipus. Now, in 2013, Justin Helzer made a second attempt to end his life by hanging. And
that time, he was successful. In a statement to the press, Justin's former defense lawyer, Daniel Cook, told a
reporter he was quote, "Sorry, but not surprised to learn that Justin's profound and apparently progressive
mental illness had manifested itself one last time." Yeah. Now, in 2024, Taylor's
case came up for automatic review by the Supreme Court of the State of California, in which he argued that he
should have been allowed to withdraw his guilty plea and should receive a trial based on his claim that officers had
violated his Fourth Amendment rights when they seized items from his home. And if they hadn't had that evidence, he
wouldn't have pleaded guilty. Okay. After considering his argument, the justices wrote, quote, "We reject
defendants claims and conclude blanket suppression of the evidence is not warranted." The court further concluded
that probable cause existed. The warrant was not a general warrant and the search
did not exceed the scope of the warrant. Fantastic. Ultimately, the court upheld
the lower court's ruling and the death sentence imposed by the jury. Well, there you have it. And that is it. He's
still He's on death row. Yep. He's on death row. His brother is dead. Yeah. And um Don is still serving out
her sentence. All I can think about is ball pen ballpoint pens in my eyes. Yeah, that's a lot. That's gnarly. So,
that is uh Glenn Taylor Helzer and the Children of Thunder. That's a wild story that I had never heard even a single
detail about previously. Wild. Yeah. I actually didn't know about this either. That's crazy. Yeah. And really sad. I
feel so so sorry. Completely innocent people. That's the thing. Like completely innocent. Had nothing to do
with any of this. Innocent people and like people who are so tenuously connected to this guy. This [ __ ]
crazy [ __ ] He just he used which like thank goodness there was a connection with like the Morgan Stanley
stuff like this idiot was a was a financial adviser and then decided to go after his clients like hello they're
just boom connection right there. Yeah that's wild. Thank goodness he was dumb as [ __ ] for that and he was seen too the
shout out to neighbors doing neighborly [ __ ] right that's why you want a good neighborhood. A lot of good Samaritans
though who like did their part here. Vicki coming forward. Um um Deborah at the end being like, "Whoa, what the [ __ ]
was this?" That's a That's a crazy And Selena being totally duped by this guy. I know. That's really heartbreaking.
It's awful. Yeah. And now And Jennifer had to die because she cared about her daughter and
who she was seeing, right? Like that's And Jim just James just being there. There. Yeah. Like that. All of it is so
[ __ ] avoid. And like what an [ __ ] this [ __ ] Yeah. He's awful. The Hellzers are and Don. Like, [ __ ] all of
them. Yeah. Sometimes I do believe in the death penalty. And this is one of those instances. Yeah. He's the worst.
Wow. So, well, we hope you keep listening, though. And we hope you keep it weird. But not as weird as this
man's, cuz what the [ __ ] Yeah. Truly. Dang. Dang. [Music] [Music] [Music]

When Ivan and Annette Stineman disappeared from their home in Concord, California in the summer of 2000, it immediately raised red alarmed with those closest to the elderly couple. Those alarms proved to be justified when, a week later, the remains of the Stinemans and three others were discovered in duffel bags in Sacramento River Delta.

The day after the remains were found in river, investigators arrested Taylor and Justin Helzer, and Justin’s girlfriend, Dawn Godman, for the murders of Ivan and Annette Stineman. A short time later, they would also be charged with the murders of Taylor’s girlfriend, Selina Bishop, her mother, Jenny Villarin, and Villarin’s boyfriend, Jim Gamble.

At first, investigators believed the murders were part of a plot to extort the Stinemans for a large amount of money, but the deeper they dug into the lives and backgrounds of the killers, a different and far more bizarre motive began to emerge.

Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!

References Aguila, Justino. 2000. "Boyfriend probed in homicides." San Francisco Examiner, August 7: 3.

Bulwa, Demian. 2004. "Killer lays out grisly details of murder spree." San Francisco Chronicle, May 28.

Kim, Ryan. 2000. "Double slaying rattles Marin town." San Francisco Examiner, August 4: 16.

Lee, Henry K. 2013. "Justin Helzer hangs himself in prison." San Francisco Chronicle, April 16.

People of the State of California v. Helzer. 2024. S132256 (Supreme Court of California, January 22).

Read, Simon. 2004. "Jury finds Helzer guilty of murder." East Bay Times, June 17.

San Francisco Examiner. 2000. "Delta body parts identified ." San Francisco Examiner, August 9.

—. 2000. "Elvin Bishop's daughter missing." San Francisco Examiner, August 5: 3.

Scott, Robert. 2005. Unholy Sacrifice. New York, NY: Pinnacle Books.

Stay in the know - wondery.fm/morbid-wondery.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

Glenn Taylor Helzer's cult-related murders of the Steinmans and Selena Bishop are detailed, revealing shocking motivations and tragic outcomes.

Key points

The Evolution of Us. Elena and Ash reflect on their growth since starting the podcast.
A Shocking Health Lesson. Elena's kids teach her that sitting is as harmful as smoking.
The Strange Encounter. Vicki Ston meets a bizarre customer with a convoluted story.
A Haunting Discovery. A manager finds duffel bags containing human remains in the river.
A Disturbing Connection. The discovery of bodies connects multiple cases together.
The Brutal Scheme Unfolds. Taylor and Justin's extortion plot leads to the kidnapping and murder of the Steinmans.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Oh, I got to change this shit.

Elena's realization about her health habits.

3:09WatchJul 3, 2025

Tension

85/ 100High tension

More from Morbid | Podcast

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.