Glen Helzer and the Children of Thunder (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos. I am Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Moab Bed. [Music] Small bed. Small bed. Honey, how are
you? Um, I'm not great with the state of the world. Yeah, it's pretty [ __ ] out there. Um, one thing we just want to
make pretty clear is, uh, [ __ ] ICE. Yeah. Um, so if I right off the top, you have to be a [ __ ] demon. Yeah. It's
It's pretty awful. And, uh, I hope if you're in Los Angeles, you're safe and you're okay. And we know that you're not
rioting. Um, you're protesting is your constitutional right. So, you know, keep at it. Be safe. Hold American flags.
Hold American flags for the optics. You know, um I saw somebody on TikTok say that and I thought that was pretty
smart. I've been seeing a few people say that now. Yeah. So that it's not, you know, they can't twist it. And be
careful. Be very careful. Look out if you see people like in trouble. Try to help them. Yeah. But like really be safe
and I'm sorry that this is happening Yeah. to you guys and that you're being, you know, retaliated against. That's
[ __ ] up. Um, there is I know there's, you know, there's other protests going on. So, everybody be safe and, you know,
fight the good fight. Fight it, but stay safe. Yeah. Um, cuz this is really [ __ ] up. It's a very, very scary time
to be alive. Uh, it really, really is. And, uh, uh, we didn't vote for this. So, no the [ __ ] we didn't.
I mean, I'm pretty sure that was pretty clear, but I think it's important to say
it outright in these here streets because there's some people who are not saying it outright and that makes me
say, "Oh, yeah. No, we What's happening there? We defo did not vote for that." No, definitely not. Um, and again, know
your rights, which I know in this, you know, time and space, they're not exactly being listened to at this point,
but when it comes to ICE and all that stuff, know your rights. know what they can and can't do. You don't have to sign
anything. Yeah. But I know that it's getting harder to do that even because they're really just overstepping things.
But um yeah, we just wanted to start out by saying that that um [ __ ] ICE and we
don't we don't agree with any of this and and this is stolen land anyway. So So really as I Yeah. You have a right to
be here just as much as we do. And everybody has a right to a a dignified and you know humane path to citizenship if
that is the path they would like to take. And like Dutchie said, I don't [ __ ] care about the piece of paper.
Dutchy on Tik Tok is I love I love Duchy on Tik Tok and I agree like that's you know. So take care of your community
members. Stay strong everybody. Mhm. We'll get through this. We will. We'll get on the other side. And again, I
don't know when this comes out um 42 years from now. So So hopefully this this will be out after the next
presidential election. Yeah, exactly. But uh I but I hopefully like, you know, that this is something we've been
feeling as it's happening and we would love to, you know, say it earlier than this on the podcast, but it won't always
be like this. Yeah, it won't always be like this. June 30th. June 30th is when this will come out. So, it'll be quite
some time after this all started. So, I'm sure you're like, "Hey, what?" But we felt like this, but it's in the
moment right now. It's June 13th right now. So, we are feeling it as it's happening. Yes. And you know, check out
my social media if you want to see how I feel. Yeah. Same. I'm back. So, yeah, we
just had to say something. We thought it was really important. Um, but besides that, what has been going on with me?
Yeah. No, with with the guy who little old me with me. Oh my god, so much. Um, it was my birthday. It was
your birthday. Yeah, it was fun. I just vibed. I love that. Yeah. I turned 29. I
was like, "What do you really do?" Yeah. You know, I I used to be like, "It's my
birthday. It's my [ __ ] birthday." Yeah. I used to be really intense about it. But as you I feel like as you get
older, it becomes like you just want to have chill birthdays. Yeah. It's just a day. I hung out with my little sister
and her fiance who's adorable. I love her fiance. I love my little sister. I love them too. You had a walk so you
couldn't be there? I did. I had the um Boston Children's Hospital Eversource walk. How was that? It was actually
great. You raised some money. Yeah, we raised some money. I do nodded. We got to see people that you know helped my
daughter survive something awful. That's pretty great. That was pretty great. You
said thanks. Yeah, we got to say thanks to And the and the girls were involved in it. We always take them with the on
the walk so they can be part of everything. It's so crazy that happened when she was four. Yeah. And like now
she's just a [ __ ] adult. Yeah. It's wild. It's insane. It's so crazy. And like thriving. Like hell yeah. Drew and
I were talking about that the other day and I was like it's crazy cuz she remembers a lot of it. Oh yeah, she
does. Which is like nuts cuz she was four but obviously it was so traumatic. Yeah. But I'm just like the fact that
she came out of that unscathed is wild. She's thriving now. Yeah. And we got and
while we were there, we got to see Lil Funk. Lil Funk, which are the like official dance troop of the Boston
Celtics. I love that. They're like these little kids and I think it's um I think
it's in Everett, Massachusetts. It's like funk phenomenon or something and they have all different age groups and
they are some of the best dancers I have ever seen in my life. They're all age groups, but Lil Funk is like the little
kids and they kill it. Like it is watching them is unlike anything you will experience. I love them. Little fun
for life. Um, but yeah, they're all amazing. Like they had the adult ones perform, too, and they were out of this
world amazing. So, that's really fun. So, if you get to a Celtics game, you'll probably see Lil Funk. Oh, and I'm going
to be at so many more next year, right? Hell yeah. Yay. Hell yeah. I don't have seasons tickets yet. What else did Oh,
um, since we've talked to you, we went to the Jack Mannequin show. That was so much fun. That was a lot of fun. Um, we
got to hang out with Andrew. We got to see Andrew. That was lovely. got to go on the side stage. Yeah, that was really
fun. We got to watch the end of the show from backstage. I've never felt cooler in my life. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
That was a huge experience. That was a big Ws to come back on the show. Yeah, he's going to come back. So, we'll do
another show with him hopefully soon, I think. Actually, summer month or so. Um,
we got some cool stuff coming up. Yeah, we do. So, you know, I guess without further ado, we should get into this
wild case. Yeah, it's yours. This is um an interesting uh like title. Yeah, I would say so.
Like title. Title. This is part one because um there's a lot of information going to be thrown at you. Um it's Glenn
Helzer and the Children of Thunder. The Children of Thunder. Yeah. Like that sounds very ominous. Is it a cult? Um I
guess you'll have to see. Okay. Uh but this is going to be a Tupata. Um, and this takes place in 2000,
actually. So, not like crazy old. I mean, that is sort of that is pretty old, but like 25 [ __ ] years ago. To
me, that's 10 years ago. So, I don't I don't understand. To me, as well, I talked to somebody who was born in 2002
the other day, and I was like, "What the fuck?" Yeah. I can't even though I'm not
that far away from it. Yeah. Something about I was going to say, you're really not that far from I'm not, but like 96
and 2002 feel like completely different. like things entirely. No, I get that, you know, and I'm just old. I'm just old
old soul. I hang out with you guys all the time. There's there's a um Red Sox prospect that got brought up recently
from like the minors. Yeah. Uh so there's his name is Roman Anthony and um John found out the other day and it very
much upset him in his core that Roman Anthony was born in 2004. Yeah. Um he's 18. He was about
uh No, he's not 18. He's 20. He just turned 21, I think. I graduated in 2004. That was 20 years ago. It said
the 18-year-old was drafted in the second round in 2022. But still, he's what? So, what is he 20?
He's like 21 essentially. [ __ ] insane. But what's even worse is he was um like 5 months old when the Red Sox
won the World Series. We're even. So when the Red Sox won the World Series, he was a fivemonth-old
who was then going to be one of their hottest prospects. Wow. 20 years later. That's which is like a very like sh I
just can't wrap my brain around that. Yeah, that's crazy. It just really I was like whoa. Every time they come through,
especially on the Red Sox for some reason, they're just so young that I'm like you are babies and I don't know
what to do. I mean 20 21 is young. That's baby. I we started this when I was 21. Yeah. Wow. I might have been 22,
but I was like around that age. That's bonkers. I know. I'm a [ __ ] whole different the human now. Herman. Herman.
Aren't we all? Um, so speaking So that all goes to say that this took place in 2000. So that feels like we really
digressed there. It's been a long week. Okay. You know what though? I think people are enjoying that we're
digressing lately cuz they're saying it feels like old morbid. I have seen a lot
of people say it feels like old morbid. Yeah. Is it because we're digressing? I think it is because we're just like
going for I don't know. I feel um there's a reason. Well, the way I was just the way I was just going to like be
so for real with y'all. We got We have to keep going. We have to keep I feel I feel fancy free, you know?
I feel like I feel like we're we're back to the the roots. Uh, so on the evening
of July 30th, 2000, Nancy Hall called her elderly parents, Ivan and Annette Steinman, to check in with them. You
know, she'd done that regularly for years. NY's mother answered the phone that night, but rather than chatting, as
she usually did during these calls, Annette seemed as though she was in a rush and didn't really have a lot of
time to talk. After a few minutes of chatting, Annette told her daughter that she'd have to hang up and would call her
back later since they were expecting company and they just arrived. Okay. So Ivan and Annette Steinman met while Ivan
was serving in the Coast Guard during World War II, and they fell in love immediately. To the outside world, they
seemed like a little bit of like an unusual match. No. Just because Ivan was really quiet and reserved and he didn't
have a lot of like big displays of emotion and Annette was outgoing, very gregarious, very active, like total
opposites attract kind of situation. That's the thing. I was just going to say opposites attract. Yeah. Despite
those differences of character, they just clicked. Uh Nancy said of her parents, "Mom was the stronger one. They
made a good team." NY's sister Judy also said this. She said they were each half
of a whole, very in tune with each other. They loved each other very much. Oh, that's precious and I bet it's going
to ruin me later. Now, the couple married in 1945, and a soon after, Annette gave birth to two daughters,
Nancy and Judy. In many ways, the family was the picture perfect 1950s American family. They got along well, and both
parents were actively involved in their daughter's lives. Um, Judy later recalled, "Our parents were always
interested in our lives. They made sure we did our homework. They watched over us and cared how we did." A Ivan and
Annette strived to give their daughters everything they could possibly need or want. Despite their very meager means
and limited income, they were the kind of parents who like kids come first, we we either get or we don't. So, good
parents. Exactly. Now, in fact, Ivan, a profession, a professional carpenter, built the family home in California
himself with help from his wife and the children. Iconic. Yeah. Um Nancy said, "We were so poor in the beginning. Mom
and dad had to take old nails from boards, straighten them, and use them in the new construction." Oh, wow. Yeah,
that's terrifying. Despite the stresses of a workingclass life, Nancy and Judy have nothing but fond memories with
their parents, especially like little outings they took, like family camping trips they would take every summer, and
they would go fishing on like fishing trips with their dad a lot. That's really cute. Now, when carpentry became
too much of a physical strain, Ivan found work in the credit card division of Chevron, which is a national energy
company with multiple business products and platforms. Yeah. Um, I've heard of Chevron. You know, the job was stressful
and it, you know, there were long hours, but it was pretty financially rewarding
and it allowed them to buy a home in a relatively upscale city of Conquered about 30 miles outside of San Francisco.
Oh, I thought you were going to say Mass. Mass. No. And once both girls had moved out of the house, Annette also
found a job with Chevron and they were earning a good living. Nice. All Ivan and Annette's hard work definitely paid
off because by the time they retired, they had invested very wisely and had managed to save a decent amount of
money. Thanks in part because of a young finan uh savvy financial adviser with Morgan Stanley. This savings and wise
investment allowed Ivan and Annette to enjoy their retirement years going on trips, fishing together, not a lot of
financial stress. They just kind of could like live that easy life. Living it up. Yeah, it was really an ideal
retirement. Like, it looked like it was like their reward for an entire life dedicated to their family and hard work
essentially. Like they were that f couple that you're like, "Hell yeah. Good on you." Now, on the afternoon of
July 30th, Ivan and Annette spent the afternoon at Koko's restaurant in downtown Conquered, sharing a few drinks
and a lunch later with friends. At one point, Ivan mentioned that they'd recently had a tech from the cable
company out to work on something at the house, and he felt the man had taken a very long time to do what was, as far as
Ivan could tell, a pretty straightforward task. Uh-oh. At hearing that, his friend uh Harry had joked and
was like, "Oh, maybe the guy's case in your house." He could be. The four friends finished their lunch a little
before 3:00 p.m., and Ivan and Annette arrived home 10 or 15 minutes later. A few hours later, just before 8:00 PM,
Nancy called to check in. Yeah. But her mother had cut the conversation short because they were having people over
that evening. The Steinman family had always been close, and Nancy was not accustomed to having days pass without
hearing from her mother or father. Oh, no. When four or five days passed and she hadn't heard from either of them and
couldn't get them on the phone, she decided to drive over to the house to check on them. And when she arrived at
the house, she immediately knew something was wrong. The couple's minivan wasn't in the driveway, which
indicated they weren't home. Oh, that's weird. And on the doorstep, Nancy found a pile of the previous day's newspapers.
Delivered, but never brought in the house. Uhhuh. Inside, things were even more concerning. Upstairs, Nancy found
one of Ivan and Annette's cats locked in the bathroom without food or water. No.
After spending some time looking around the house, she found the other cat locked outside in the backyard.
Nancy and her sister had always had pets when they grew up, and they had inherited from their parents a big love
and appreciation and respect for animals. Yeah. So, it was impossible for this to have happened on purpose. Yeah.
Neither of them would have locked those cats in a bathroom or outside, much less
without food or water. They never would have done that to their animals. No. Elsewhere in the house, there were other
signs that something was a miss. It looked like they had gone through their personal papers in a hurry and hadn't
put the house back together after doing that. Okay. Like it was just a mess. And
most distressing of all, and I understand why this really lit the alarm bells, Nancy found her father's
wristwatch on the floor in the living room. Oh, that isn't it. It was like just underneath the couch. Nope. I
[ __ ] hate that. I think I would immediately cry. Oh, it would ruin me. And and and when she picked it up to
look at it, she noticed the band was damaged around the clasp, like it had been ripped off Ivan's wrist, not taken
off. Yeah. Something is not right here. Yeah. So, very concerned about all this,
uh she called the police and reported her parents missing. Investigators came a short time later and performed a
thorough search of the house, but as far as anyone could tell, the only things missing were Ivan and Annette. Mhm.
Although it's always concerning when an elderly couple disappears for days. There was little to indicate they'd gone
missing as a result of foul play. Like not there was stuff but like not a lot for them to go on. You know, they don't
find blood or anything like that. That's the thing. They didn't find any kind of
the glass shattered or obviously there's signs that something is a miss here. The
wristwatch. Yes. The wristwatch being the biggest one. And the cats. And the cats. Yeah. They never would have done
that. Like that to me would have been like really a problem. Bizarre. Yeah. Um, also a canvas of the neighborhood
didn't produce any new or alarming details from neighbors. So again, there's really nothing to go on. Not in
my neighborhood. There was how I know that's why it's really good to have like a very active and nosy neighborhood if
you can. Yes. Um, there was however one statement from a neighbor that seemed to
confirm what NY's mother had told her over the phone when they last spoke. According to the neighbor across the
street on the night of July 30th, she happened to be looking out her window and saw two men she described as looking
like Mormon missionaries walking up to the Steinman house a little before 8:00 p.m. Thinking nothing of it, cuz why
would you? The neighbor shifted her attention elsewhere and didn't think about it until the detectives brought it
up. Because again, you wouldn't think twice about that. Like, and usually Mormon missionaries, I think, are like
younger. Yeah. like teens, early 20s dressed in the morning and all that [ __ ] So, while detectives in conquered
are struggling to make any progress um um on the disappearance of Ivan and Annette Steinman, detectives 50 miles
away in Marane County were about to embark upon a very uh similarly strange and baffling case as well. On the
morning of August 3rd, the Marane County Sheriff's Office received a call from a
Woodacre resident um talking about gunshots in the house across the street. Oh [ __ ] When deputies arrived at the
house, they were directed to a small studio apartment located just behind the house. Inside the apartment, they found
the bodies of 45-year-old Jennifer Valerin and her 54 yearear-old boyfriend, James Gamble. Oh, wow. Both
were nude. Jennifer still in bed and James on the floor beside the bed. And both had been shot to death with a 9mm
handgun. Damn. A quick look around the apartment indicated that the murders had not been committed during a robbery.
There was no signs of struggle. It didn't appear anything of noteworthy was taken. It also didn't appear like the
killer had gone through anybody's belongings. Also, the apartment would have been a less than ideal target for a
robbery as well because it was surrounded by larger homes presumably owned by people much wealthier. Yeah.
And it was also tucked away from the road behind the main house. Huh? That meant whoever had killed Jennifer and
James would have had to know the studio apartment was even there in the first place. Right. Uh, this was particularly
telling since the apartment was actually that of Jennifer's daughter, Selena. Oh.
Who was out of town when the murders were committed. Curious. Now, unfortunately for investigators, the
scene was virtually devoid of evidence or leads. They had the shell casings from the 9mm used in the murder, but
otherwise, the killer left nothing. Okay. A canvas of the neighborhood was also pretty discouraging. Uh the
neighbor who called in the report told detectives they'd heard six to eight shots around 5:00 a.m. followed by a
short time later the sound of a car speeding away from the apartment, but they only heard those things. They
didn't see anything. Mhm. The murders came as a shock to the residents of Woodacre. Not only because Jennifer and
Jim were well known locally, but also because Jennifer was somewhat wellknown nationally. Oh. She was the one-time
wife of blues musician Elvin Bishop. Oh. In a press conference the following day,
under Sheriff Dennis Finnegan told reporters the couple didn't appear to have any enemies, and in fact, they seem
to be kind of beloved members of the community. Mhm. Uh Finnegan said, "We're still working on a motive. It doesn't
appear to be a robbery or a random type of thing." No. Now, the case took an even more troubling turn the following
day when investigators couldn't reach Jennifer's daughter, Selena. Uh-oh. From interviews with Selena's friends and
co-workers, they learned that her mother had been staying at Selena's apartment while she was away on a camping trip in
Yoseite. Okay. But no one had heard from her since she'd left a week earlier. According to her friends, this is
completely out of character for her to not return. Captain Tom McMahon's told a reporter of this. Now, the Marin County
Sheriff's Office put out a missing person alert for Selena Bishop and began speaking to her friends to learn more
about her life. like what's going on here? By all accounts, Selena Bishop was a kind, sweet, and somewhat naive young
woman without a single enemy to speak of. Raised by her mother since her parents were divorced. Um I think they
divorced when she was like 10 years old. Okay. Uh they had a super strong bond. A
and now in adulthood, they had a close relationship as like friends now. Like you know, you get into that. According
to those close to her, Selena had recently found work as a server in a local restaurant, and that provided her
the income to move out on her to her own apartment, which was the studio where the bodies of Jennifer and Jim were
found. Around that time, Selena had also begun dating someone new, a man friends
had heard her refer to only as Jordan. According to one of Jennifer's closest friends, Selena's mother was super
desperate to meet this Jordan. Obviously, it's her daughter and they're very close, right? But Selena was like
reluctant to introduce them. Apparently, it had only been a few months since they
had started dating. She wasn't sure. Uh but not content with that response. I'm like a few months 25 years ago was like
years in today's world of dating. It's true. But her mother, Jennifer, was not content with that response. So, she
started stopping by her daughter's apartment on AdSense just hoping to catch him there. Queen and be like, "Oh,
here I am. I guess we'll just meet." Oh, gee. Yeah. I love that. And honestly, it
paid off because eventually she stopped by and was introduced to Jordan. Nice. Now, you don't know who your daughter's
dated. I get it. Yeah, of course. It's unclear what it was precisely about Jordan that left Jennifer so
unimpressed. A gut feeling. Uh but it was clear to friends that she had been expecting something different. Oh, okay.
And it turned out her impression of him didn't get any better in the days that followed their introduction. According
to Jennifer's friend, Selena's mother had developed some concerns about this guy after learning some more stuff about
him. Jordan had told Selena he was still married, but he was going to get a divorce, which is like, uhoh. Uhhuh. Uh
he claimed he was about to inherit a large sum of money. Fake. And he didn't want his soon to be ex-wife to know
about that money so she would get half of it. Messed up. So he asked Selena to open an account in her name where they
could hide the money. Baby, no. And she agreed. No. No. When someone 2020, but you you're listening to this episode. If
somebody ever asks you to do that, no. Run. It's a no. Leave. When they learned about the bank account Selena opened on
her boyfriend's behalf, investigators became concerned that what they had been investigating as a missing person case
might actually be something far more nefarious. Huh? Those suspicions only grew when after talking to some of
Selena's co-workers, they learned that it was Jordan who had told them Selena was going away to Yoseite. Oh, no. Yeah.
Um, one of them said, so McMahon had said, supposedly he is the last person who may have seen Selena Bishop, and we
want to know when and where that was. Yeah. The main problem investigators faced was while they had a first name
for Selena's boyfriend, no one seemed to know or had ever heard his last name. And Jordan is a pretty common name.
Yeah. What they did know though was that Selena had a pager that she frequently used and it had been found among her
things at work. Okay. The pager was turned over to investigators who began combing through the numbers associated
with incoming calls. To their surprise, none of the phone numbers were listed under anyone by the name of Jordan. So,
he's using a fake name. But there was a number that frequent that appeared frequently on the list and it was
someone named Glenn Taylor Helzer. Not Jordan. When detectives did a background check on Helzer, they found no criminal
record or anything else that would be considered a red flag. Okay. But there was something that did jump out to
investigators. Helzer lived with his brother Justin, who had recently purchased and registered a 9 mm handgun.
I knew it. The same caliber used in the shooting of Jennifer and James. Knew it.
Now, when investigators started digging into the backgrounds of Taylor and Justin Helzer, nothing about the two
guys fit the pattern of a criminal, much less a murderer. Glenn Taylor Helzer was
born July 26th, 1970 to Jerry and Karma Karma Helzer in Lancing, Michigan. He's a cancer. Not long after Taylor's birth,
they moved to a town u the town of Pachico, California in Contraosta County, where their second son, Justin,
was born. The last of the three hellser children. Wait, he's a Leo. Sorry. Just kidding. From the moment he entered the
world, Taylor was the center of his parents' life. Taylor was incredibly bright, very charming. He had this like
natural leadership quality about him. It very much drew people into him. Leo, as
devout members of the Mormon church, Jerry and Karma were proud of more proud of their eldest son's engagement with
the faith. The Mormon church, you say? Yeah. I don't know if you caught that. Ding, ding, ding. Um, but they really
liked that he was so involved in the Mormon faith and that he could quote large parts of scripture by the time he
was 12 years old. Cool. Neat, right? Yeah. Uh, Taylor's cousin Charnie Hoffman said, "We lived with them for
some time when I was young. I absolutely loved him. He was very influential in my
life and lots of other people's lives. Taylor was very accepting regardless of the fact that that's not always the case
with people who are very religious. Mhm. Uh Justin Helzer was 2 years younger than his brother and almost 180° his
opposite. Right. So Taylor was outgoing, had that way of drawing people in. Justin was very shy, often aloof,
especially when it came to people he didn't know. That's not to suggest that he was like a dick or like unkind at all
or like off-putting in any way. He was very quiet, very reserved, and he didn't have like any of the confidence that it
seemed Taylor just exuded. Okay. When people would recall Justin, they almost always described him as living in his
brother's rather large shadow. That's really sad. Yeah. Author Robert Scott wrote, "Whereas Taylor seemed to have
countless friends in school, both male and female, Justin had almost none. He was painfully shy around girls, and
tried not to stick out in class." H now when the boys were teens they went to live with Karma's father so their
grandfather Doy Doyle Sorenson a man whose Mormon faith was far more rigid than KMAS Doyle Sorenson is a story book
character in fact even some of the most fundamentalist Mormon followers considered his beliefs to be on the
fringes of the faith really particularly with regard on hearing the word of God on one occasion
Um, Doyle claimed I don't this for some reason that the optics of this just made
me giggle a little bit. I just have to say Doyle claimed that he'd seen Jesus Christ on his front lawn. That's funny.
I just like why is he on the front lawn? That's like that's just what I got to ask. If I wake up and see Jesus Christ
on my front lawn, I'm going to go take a cold shower. That's what I'm saying. Like damn. Like there's you got like you
got to find some kind of love. Seeing Jesus Christ on the front lawn is definitely a point of levity for me. Did
he do acid the night before? Like what? Well, and this is what's even crazier. So, it wasn't just a vision. Like, it's
this was not a vision. He saw him as a real corporal be being on his front lawn. And what what's even wilder is
like he didn't just bop in and bop out. Jesus. Yeah. He's several hours he stood
on that front lawn. JC is JC. He's Jesus Christ is just chilling. He's just chilling.
And then he disappeared. Okay. Like like poof or like just like walked over. I don't know. I don't know that. I can't I
can't You don't know how JC goes. I can't speak to that. But uh he he was hanging out on the front lawn for a
couple hours. He cometh and he goeth. He did cometh and he did goeth. Uh now obviously like we can be like, "Oh my
god, that's funny that he saw Jesus Christ on his front lawn one day." Um, but it then it becomes not funny when he
has young impressionable minds that are going to be uh probably terrified and believe this. Um, imagine if Papa walked
in a room and told us Jesus Christ was on the front lawn. I'd be like, "Well, it's time to call someone."
Well, I don't know what we do here. What do you do? I don't know what the I don't
know what the answer to that is. You got to go to the hospital. I'm like, okay, cool. No, you got to go to the hospital.
go neat, neat, neat. Uh, but to the young and impressionable Taylor, Doyle became a significant influence. Yeah.
Because remember, he's he's wellversed in Mormon um faith shenanigans. So, and he he can speak the scripture from
memory. He can Oh, yeah. He can do like So, he's in this like Taylor is really like So, this guy is now influencing him
on a daily basis. Yeah. Um he admired his grandfather's commitment to their faith and his spirituality which that's
okay like you can admire someone's like you know if you're in that absolutely um
and he even admired it when it was dismissed or questioned by others which you know that's fine. Okay. And that
said according to Robert Scott the rigidity of their faith and the high standards set by his grandfather were
also a very deep source of anxiety for Taylor. Oh it was that was the dark part of this. It's fine to admire someone who
if you have faith or you have spirituality and someone you know has even more you can see it's okay to
admire them for that. Yeah. It's when it becomes a source of anxiety that you have these standards set for you that
you can't possibly reach, especially as a kid or a teen. Um so Scott wrote, "Taylor had problems living up to these
Mormon ideals. He felt guilty after after what he considered sinning, especially if he masturbated. Consumed
with guilt, he tried committing suicide at one point." Oh god, that's awful. Although it would be many more years
before Taylor was formally diagnosed with a mental illness, it was around this time that some members of his
family and community did start to notice some strange behavior. Mhm. Um, so psychiatrist Doug uh Dr. Douglas Tucker
wrote in an assessment, Taylor as early as 14 was experiencing ideas that were unusual and inappropriate. He was
receiving audible messages by the age of 14. Taylor was told he had a gift of revelation, but he didn't know if the
messages he were was receiving were from God or Satan. Oh, that's a lot for a kid
to handle, dude. Yeah, that's very sad. That's a lot to put on a kid. When he was 17 and still ineligible to enlist,
Taylor joined the National Guard. It's unclear whether this was achieved with the permission of his parents or as a
result of poor processing on the part of the guard. Um, but either way, he was accepted into the National Guard and
sent to Texas for his initial training period. As is often the case with young people who have been raised in pretty
sheltered communities, the transition from a strict Mormon community to a largely secular and adult world of the
National Guard was a bit of a culture shock. Yeah, I'm sure. Um, taken aback by all the swearing, drinking, and
sexual activity among his fellow recruits, Taylor initially tried to preach to them in the hope that his
words might convert some of them or at least help them see the folly of their ways. Some found his words interesting,
you know, like, let's just see what he has to say. But most of them were just like, you're being a little bit zealous
here, like let's tone it down. You're being an arc. Now, once he finished his training with the National Guard and
returned home, Taylor decided to take the first step into adulthood that almost all young Mormon men take by
going on a mission. Yeah, Jack Barlo. There you go. In the LDS faith, young men mark their transition from child to
adult by leaving home to another part of the country or even another part of the
world to preach their values and fundamentals of their beliefs to other people. Mhm. Just not on my door. No.
Um, I actually told some to leave the other day. True. She did. So, and then we looked at really good no soliciting
signs. It's a no, it's a no thank you for me. Until very recently, this process meant the individuals would be
cut off from their families and their home cultures for long stretches of time until the mission came to an end and
they returned home. I think they're typically like two years. Are they really? I think at least the one Jack
Barlo went on. There you go. That's Housewives of Salt Lake City in case you were wondering. I I was uh I I knew
Barlo was one of those gorgeous case. Well, Baby Gorgeous is Henry, but I digress. Now, in Taylor's case, he was
sent to Brazil to serve his mission. In his diary, there you go. In his diary, Taylor wrote, "When I arrived, I felt
equal parts excited and overwhelmed. Excited simply because I was anxious to serve on a mission, but nervous because
you're a little out of your element. It's a new experience, and you're a long way from home." Despite his
apprehension, Taylor settled in pretty quickly to his new environment and found that like he had been back in
California. He was very popular with the other young men serving their missions in Brazil. One missionary later said, "I
very much enjoyed working with him. He seemed to have a genuine care for the people. I felt that he was particularly
effective in teaching. People seemed to like him and he had a very, very capable
manner about him." Cool. It was true that Taylor found some success in Brazil, but at the same time, his
symptoms of his mental illness appeared to have worsened during this period. Some people described his preaching and
interpretation of scripture as manic, often going off on tangents. Um, according to uh fellow missionary
Jonathan Taylor, he would uh trying to discern thoughts beyond the surface of meaning is what he would do. Uh he would
also go several nights without sleeping, staying up all night to read from the Book of Mormon and analyze the text. And
Jonathan Taylor, that fellow missionary, said it wasn't long before others started noticing a difference in
Taylor's demeanor. Yeah. Um Jonathan said the changes in Taylor were fairly abrupt. Some of the conclusions and
beliefs he began to draw, he'd state them more emphatically. He sense he had been given in additional inspiration to
kind of understand how the tenants of the faith connected. So I think he's feeling a little more like I am the word
of God kind of he's he's treading close to those waters. He was JC on the lawn. Exactly. Now becoming more steadfast and
zealous at this point in his beliefs weren't the only thing that the other missionaries were finding off-putting.
In addition in addition to his righteous certainty, Taylor's beliefs and worldview had taken a little bit of a
darker tone. Uh Jonathan recalls Helzer dwelled upon certain cataclysmic events in the latter days. He would talk about
his opinion that there would be the elimination of technology which is like that that when you hear it
like that you're like that just sounds like regular like theorizing. Yeah. No. In addition to his increasingly though
apocalyptic vision of the future I think it's when it treads into that like manic
territory of like doomsday like prepare for the proph Yeah. Um, Taylor had also become increasingly and eventually
verbally frustrated with the mission's leadership. In Taylor's eyes, the mission president was an ineffective
leader who lacked the spiritual fortitude to lead them. Oh. Now, according to Jonathan Taylor, that
fellow missionary, if there were things that he didn't feel were accurate, if he
or he didn't agree with them, he kind of dismissed them by saying the church leaders either knew the truth and
weren't revealing it, or they didn't know the truth, and therefore he was not accountable to them. Oh, above the
church. He's going rogue, folks. Yeah. Upon returning home from his mission, he settled back to life in California. And
in 1993, he married his high school girlfriend, Anne, much to the disappointment of his brother, Justin,
who was away on his own mission when the wedding took place. Oh, that's really sad. I know. You can't have a wedding
without your brother. Anne told a reporter Justin was hurt that Taylor never consulted him about getting
married. As far as Justin saw it, getting married was a major decision, and he couldn't understand why his
brother wouldn't at least wait 6 months until Justin returned so he could go to the wedding. Yeah. Oh, that actually
hurts my heart. Yeah. As it turned out, it might have been wise for Taylor and Anne to wait a little longer before
getting married. Yeah. According to Anne, the marriage started to go bad not very long after they returned home from
the honeymoon. Oh, that's terrible. They argued all the time, and Anne was endlessly frustrated with the fact that
everything always had to be Taylor's way. She said Taylor had an unrealistic view of the world. He had never been
able to watch television at his parents' home. So, in our home, for the first time, he could watch cable television.
He would stay up all night and then have to be at work by 6:00 a.m. He couldn't pull himself away. Oh, that's it's like
when you like don't let a kid eat any sugar and then they get to go to a friend's house or like a birthday party
and they just gorge themselves on it. It wasn't just cable television that Taylor
had become fixated with. It was everything that he was experiencing for the first time.
Having grown up in a very strict religious household, Taylor and his siblings had been denied many of the
things most American children experience pretty regularly, you know, sweets, junk
food, video games, television. So, when he was finally able to access those things as an adult, he had no
moderation, right? Could not moderate what he was doing. Like, it was just fully full throttle. According to Robert
Scott, the one thing Taylor wanted more than anything else was sex like he saw on porno videos, which is not real. He
had no sex education and no sexual experience. So, he didn't seem to understand that what he saw in porn
films was a carefully orchestrated fantasy and not at all similar to what relatively ordinary sexual,
you know, active adults experience. See, in my opinion, that's why you have to talk about it. Yeah. Earlier, because
then that's the first thing you're that he sees. Yeah. Scott wrote, uh, he begged his wife for the things he saw,
but Anne was not comfortable doing some of the things depicted on those videos. Yeah, porn's crazy. Porn goes wild. In
retrospect, Anne blames many of Taylor's problems and shortcomings on his parents, particularly his mother, Karma.
As far as she could tell, Jerry Helzer was a laid-back, nice guy, while his wife was the more intense of the two,
ruling over the family with a religious fervor she'd learned from her father. Her father, I was wondering. Yeah. Karma
treated Taylor as he was the golden child. He could do no wrong. He was deserving of everything he wanted.
That's so true. And Taylor internalized those messages and then he carried them into adulthood. Yeah. That's why he
thinks he's a prophet. And it made him very difficult. It made him difficult to be around and it made it difficult for
him to interact with people who didn't immediately give in to his literal every whim in demand. Yeah. Not long after
their wedding, Anne's uncle managed to get Taylor a job with financial investment firm Morgan Stanley. Oh [ __ ]
I don't know if you remember in the beginning, um, but Ivan and Annette were able to save so much money because they
worked with a young financial adviser at Morgan Stanley. The way that you just took this [ __ ] full circle. I just want
to put that out there. Despite having taken only one semester of college courses and having no experience in
financial management, he took to the work pretty easily and was he was a success. Like he did well. His
confidence, his ability to charm people made him popular with qu clients and pretty fearless when it came to making
cold calls and pitching their services. So, found his niche. I mean, being a missionary, I'm sure it was probably
easier for him to make those cold calls. Yeah, he's used to doing that stuff. Yeah. Um, Taylor's personal and
professional success lasted a few years, but by the mid to late 1990s, things started to change. At work, his boss
began noticing that Taylor had taken up smoking and was spending a lot of time in the evening going out to clubs and
bars. He had also let his appearance and hygiene slip more and more as the days went by. He grew his hair long. He
didn't do anything to make it presentable. And most important, he was becoming unreliable. By the summer of
1996, Anne had also begun to notice these changes in Taylor. Uh what what he described as testing out the quote
sinning side of life. Oh, from what Anne could tell, Taylor felt he had been let
down by the Mormon church and led into a life he didn't want and felt he was superior to. Okay. A few months later,
Taylor and Anne's marriage completely fell apart and she filed for divorce. Taylor continued to just fall apart
essentially in the months and years that followed. And in 1998, he was let go from his job at Morgan Stanley. Oh no.
No longer able to maintain a job, Taylor began the process of applying for Social
Security disability, which required him to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Mhm. On September 1st, 1998, Taylor was
referred to an intensive outpatient program for individuals whose symptoms and mental illness severely impair their
functioning and requires multiple contacts with a social worker and/or a psychiatric treatment team. Okay. Which
is pretty intense. Yeah. It was during the intake process for that program that Taylor was diagnosed with bipolar
disorder, type one, with manic features. This diagnosis and the need for ongoing
intensive treatment qualified Taylor for um social security disability um payments. Yeah. And he was approved in
1998. A year later, Taylor excommunicated from the Morban Church for his drug use and a lifestyle that
was increasingly out of step with the teachings of the church. Oh. So they like kicked him out. Yeah, he was
excommunicated. Damn. And that's where we're going to leave you because for part two, we're going to
pick back up where we began. Okay. But I wanted to make sure you got a full picture of who Taylor is. I think we
have that picture. What's going on here? Yeah. My my wheels are turning upstairs.
And I want you to chew on that for a minute and then part two will take you to the take you to the thunder. Yeah,
the thunder. Yeah. Okay. The thunder. Well, I guess with that being said, we hope you keep listening and we hope you
keep it weird, but not so weird that you see JC JC on your front lawn. Hey [Music]
[Music] [Music]

When Ivan and Annette Stineman disappeared from their home in Concord, California in the summer of 2000, it immediately raised red alarmed with those closest to the elderly couple. Those alarms proved to be justified when, a week later, the remains of the Stinemans and three others were discovered in duffel bags in Sacramento River Delta.

The day after the remains were found in river, investigators arrested Taylor and Justin Helzer, and Justin’s girlfriend, Dawn Godman, for the murders of Ivan and Annette Stineman. A short time later, they would also be charged with the murders of Taylor’s girlfriend, Selina Bishop, her mother, Jenny Villarin, and Villarin’s boyfriend, Jim Gamble.

At first, investigators believed the murders were part of a plot to extort the Stinemans for a large amount of money, but the deeper they dug into the lives and backgrounds of the killers, a different and far more bizarre motive began to emerge.

Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!

References Aguila, Justino. 2000. "Boyfriend probed in homicides." San Francisco Examiner, August 7: 3.

Bulwa, Demian. 2004. "Killer lays out grisly details of murder spree." San Francisco Chronicle, May 28.

Kim, Ryan. 2000. "Double slaying rattles Marin town." San Francisco Examiner, August 4: 16.

Lee, Henry K. 2013. "Justin Helzer hangs himself in prison." San Francisco Chronicle, April 16.

People of the State of California v. Helzer. 2024. S132256 (Supreme Court of California, January 22).

Read, Simon. 2004. "Jury finds Helzer guilty of murder." East Bay Times, June 17.

San Francisco Examiner. 2000. "Delta body parts identified ." San Francisco Examiner, August 9.

—. 2000. "Elvin Bishop's daughter missing." San Francisco Examiner, August 5: 3.

Scott, Robert. 2005. Unholy Sacrifice. New York, NY: Pinnacle Books.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

The episode covers the Steinman couple's disappearance and the murders of Jennifer Valerin and James Gamble, linking them to Glenn Helzer's troubled background.

Key points

A Scary Time to Be Alive. The hosts express their concerns about the current state of the world.
The Steinman Family's Disappearance. Nancy Steinman grows worried after not hearing from her parents for days.
A Disturbing Discovery. Nancy finds signs of distress in her parents' home, leading to a police report.
Mysterious Visitors. A neighbor recalls seeing two men resembling missionaries at the Steinman house.
A Double Murder. In a nearby county, deputies discover the bodies of a couple shot to death.
The Murders of Jennifer and James. Investigators find no evidence of robbery or struggle at the crime scene.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's a very, very scary time to be alive.

Discussing the current state of the world.

1:34WatchJun 30, 2025

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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