Delphi Murders /// 4 Years Later /// Part 2 /// 469 | Forensic Files

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Sheriff Tobe lessenby in the Delphi murder investigation we now reached the point where we are discussing what they
are calling the communication portion of the questions submitted to the good Sheriff the question here is the lack of
communication on the part of your department and law enforcement is a significant concern for many individuals
the exception seems to be the families of the victims why do you think this is the case Sheriff Lazenby says I
respectfully disagree with this statement as I have said since the beginning much of what we protect and
keep close to the vest is preserved for the courtroom and trial to release too much information would in my opinion
potentially taint a jury before a trial even begins and as most know the double jeopardy Clause exist in the U.S
Constitution which means in short the prosecutor only has one chance at Prosecuting this case I feel as Sheriff
I have been very open and accessible at least to mainstream media and answered most questions reasonably well a couple
things there one when they try this case and they will one day they're going to seek the death penalty period and that's
even harder to get a conviction when you seek that that's what they'll seek that's what they'll get Indiana will
execute this murderer the other reason that the public the public wants more information that doesn't mean that we
deserve more information the people that do deserve more information is the family but again if you look at a lot of
interviews from Kelsey it seems as if her grandparents have seen all the video footage listen to all the audio footage
probably have seen more information than the public has been allowed to see yes what I have been told by Kelsey
specifically and what I've seen other family members say in interviews or on record is that yes they have seen
additional portions of the video and heard additional portions of the audio and there's nothing really on there is
what what they have said what I find to be very interesting is toblesenby his answers really very similar well why
haven't you released more of the video if you have it he doesn't say we don't have more video or audio he says there's
nothing earth-shattering on there that would tell John Q public oh now I know who did this there's
nothing that's going to move anybody in that way and take this a step further here Captain I have heard in one
interview where lesabee said that there wasn't really any useful additional audio of bridge guy right in the
recording well and they had one of the sheriffs on the down the hill documentaries say it's not a super
lengthy video that they have the general consensus seems to be what about two and
a half minutes potentially of video and or audio Yeah I think there's a bunch of
different rumors there but I think the thing too for the public at first law enforcement releases one photo which is
from a video and then they go hey let's let's add a little bit to that then they
give you a little bit more after a time period of nobody coming forward and saying a hundred percent for certainty
that that's the guy and then they're able to lock up the guy with those pictures if there was a better image
they would have released the better image correct that's probably the best image that they have and I want to take
this a step further here Captain another thing that has been said so the most common questions that I see recycled
time and time again to law enforcement is why haven't you released additional audio and or video if it does in fact
exist and why have you not disclosed the cause of death the manner of of death in
this investigation to hit on that second one they have outwardly said and I agree
with this 100 percent they say that the manner of death would not help anybody in the public again say oh I now know
who did this I now can submit a tip because I know how they were killed right that has to be true I I backed
that up 100 does the prosecutor rely on you to determine what information is given to the public or does he make that
decision independently and hear tobelesby is going to point out that they are both elected officials they are
both held to a different set of rules so they both act accordingly inside those set of rules so he's saying
no the prosecutor doesn't tell me what I can or cannot say and no I do not tell him what he can and cannot say the next
question is there is a surging movement Across the Nation from professional investigators and others insisting the
police release more details about the crime scene and the investigation not to mention the entirety of the video and
audio found on Libby's phone why are you not releasing information and go on to reference text written by
Searchers on the scene are now on the internet for everyone to see there is also dispatch audio from when
the girls were found on the internet now given these facts how can you justify not releasing more information
he's going to give the same answer here as we've seen before I respectfully disagree with this statement he's trying
to protect the Integrity of their investigation reminding that because of Double Jeopardy the prosecutor has one
shot at this thing question the prosecutor fought in court not to release the 911 tapes of the Flora fire
and one he has publicly stated all release of information concerning the Delphi girls
must go through him all murders are unsolved for four plus years National statistics state after
one year that there is less than five percent chance of an arrest is Carroll County doing the
right thing by guarding information after four years or are they endangering other children due to the prosecutor's
office lack of experience based on your professional experience Gathering evidence again he's going to
respectfully disagree with this statement as well they're not releasing more information for
they don't want to potentially taint a jury before a trial even begins I found one thing to be quite
interesting and rather clever and a bit sad one of the mothers of the victims said
in the down the hill two-part special she said we all hear how bad and how difficult a case
can be to solve after 48 Hours has expired now we have this case and it's been 48 months yeah we're between a rock
and a hard place and I don't think any of us thought we would be sitting here having the same conversation of who is
Bridge guy why do we not know what happened after 48 months I don't know if you picked up on this but lately in some
of the interviews I've listened to and then with the documentary it seems like they're they're 100 percent confident
that this individual is is a local well and I agree with that it but but it's a much longer answer than just that they
say we believe he he lives in Delphi or was from Delphi he's you know a local or
was local at one point or may work here so there's something there's a local aspect to this suspect
and it could be something where he grew up in the area maybe he lived there for the first 20 years of his life and he's
not been there the last several years or however old he is or yes he is a local or he works there I
I believe that to be true for many reasons one I think that one thing that's very telling is Kelsey
she's the sister of one of the victims and other family members of these two victims have said that there are people
that live in Delphi that have never walked across that bridge there are people in Delphi that have
never gone to those Trails there's people that don't even know that bridge exist correct so and I believe that that
bridge was a big part of his strategy for for cornering as a trap I think we both
believe that bridge was used as a trap and I think again moving look there's two different theories I think me and
you have we butt heads a little bit on this I think you believe that the individual is part possibly at the
cemetery and that he was leading them to the cemetery and maybe a struggle happened and he decided to or or he got
angry and decided to murder him there I believe he moved them in that direction because he knew where Logan's house was
and knew that in order to you know get them away from anybody that possibly could see him
or them you would have to move them in that direction because if you move them in any other direction well one you're
not going to take them back over the bridge and you're not going to move them in any other direction because there's
property there and houses there yeah and one thing I think we can agree on for certain and where our theories kind of
overlap is that all of those actions would be the same in both Theory where you're you're moving you've used the
bridge as a strategy to Corner your victims whoever they would be and then you're moving your victim and
or victims in a manner that you're going away from where you will be spotted where you would run into some trouble
and so the bridge and all of that land private and otherwise on the other side of the bridge
where the girls were killed was part of that strategy and for it to be part of the strategy this is knowledge that this
man had prior to that day something he very likely thought about and considered when going about the business of that
day moving on to the terrain portion of the questions Captain this question is there are many residents of the county
that have never been on the trails describe the terrain of where the girls were found what is the most direct route
out of the area they were found how long of a walk from where they entered to where they were found
his answer is very similar to one of the state parks I'm guessing he's saying that's about how the the size of the
place a lot of Hills brush trees Etc directly south of the morning Heights Cemetery but on private property I do
not recall the specific distance okay so that must be where they were found that's his vague answer it's directly
south of the morning Heights Cemetery but on private property I do not recall the specific distance here's where you
can go from from the bridge entrance or exit however the end of the bridge the south end of the High Bridge is what it
would be called to the crime scene or or where the bodies were found that's less
than a quarter mile away from that where the bodies were found to the cemetery is roughly about a quarter
mile away and this next question follows along that same the same thoughts that we're having and and sharing right now
are in step with what we've been talking about Ron Logan has stated on news programs the only way to get to the site
I guess the where the girls were found the murder scene is over difficult terrain and private property given the
difficulty getting to where the bodies were found many believe the killer or killers were familiar with the area do
you as a law enforcement officer believe that as well and his answer is very much
so it is part of the reason why we continually feel it is a quote local or someone who was very familiar with the
area well here's what I know for certain I I feel this a hundred percent in my bones this individual has a their own
entrance and exit to the bridge or to that park again we differ on how they get there
but this area that's how they enter and exit yes if a vehicle was used or was used in this crime
I have a whole different set of ideas but one thing that is fascinating to me is if this person would have been able
to arrive on scene by foot and leave the scene by foot there again you would have
a whole lot less likelihood that there would be any other video from other sources on bridge guy
and that might explain why we don't have any other footage from anywhere else of bridge guy
leaving the scene or arriving on the scene I 100 believe he arrived and exited by foot and I also believe that's
why there's zero eyewitness with as many people were at the park with the distance he would have had to cover go
back through the actual entrance and exit of the park that somebody would have saw this individual and this
individual would have had to be covered in blood that's what has proved to me that this individual showed up on foot
and left on foot next question who organized the search teams on February 13th and February 14th how were
individuals divided into teams and how were the search areas determined answer it was a combined effort involving a
number of First Responders police Fire EMS and community volunteers divided mainly by their association with various
entities firefighters went with firefighters and so forth and anybody that's listened to our show for a while
will know from from cases that we've covered specifically with missing persons cases that a lot of the searches
might be overseen by law enforcement or the sheriff's department but firefighters have a different skill set
and a different set of techniques and they're very good at search and rescue that's what they do when your house is
on fire right oftentimes we will see and have seen in many cases that we've covered that the fire department is
usually a very big part in deciding the leadership of the search teams and the goals you know or how they're going to
go about searching a particular area or where they do search so that question and answer makes a lot of sense what is
not questioned and I've failed to put it on my questions but it's one thing that
I asked Kelsey when I spoke with her and it's something that I've asked anybody that's gotten close to this case that's
talked to the people in charge and I said did they require any kind of identification by the people that showed
up to search on the 14th did did you take records of any of those people did you write down their names their
addresses their phone number did you did you ask for identification before they signed up the search how
organized was it and we know from other serial cases these guys returned to the area we talked about Amy mihalovic's
case there's a guy that's a suspect right now because they believed that they saw his vehicle the day that her
body was found months later after the abduction they believed they saw his vehicle
passing through a four-way stop near the body recovery site and he had no reason to be there whatsoever right
so that puts him on a whole different list of prioritized suspects and here I would not be shocked if Bridge guy
returned to the scene to assist in the search efforts on the 14th if he was in fact that relaxed
If he if if we can dump him in the category of any of these other monsters that we've discussed on the show it
would not Shock me it would not surprise me if in fact he ended up on a search team on the 14th
well on what we had we've learned from other cases like Stephen Avery that that crime scene or that location where
they're looking for individuals was you know pretty contained and pretty small compared to a park
and there's several people that showed up to those searches that never signed in and some of the people that were
conducting the searches didn't sign in I think again 100 this individual was there on the 14th they knew what they
did and they knew that by being there at the search that hey you you gotta you got a piece
of uh clothing of mine or you got a cup with some DNA of mine on it well I can argue that away that I was at the search
so of course you have an item from me that I left behind the next two sets of questions will really be based around
the command center and the County Safety the safety of the residents in the county
since it is an unsolved homicide case and I love this round of questioning because this is really the checks and
balances portion the quality control portion you got to check in with these officials you know how many people does
tobles and be answer to not many is the answer how many people does the prosecutor answer to not many but at the
end of the day they're both elected officials the answer to the community as a whole
so I love that we have this little bit of checks and balances I loved seeing the mother of one of the victims say in
her interview you know there are days that I feel like I should drive over to the the police department the the
sheriff's department and say okay guys what is it that we're doing today what on our investigation
are we working on today are we working on anything because it's been four years so let's go
through this quality control bit right here Captain the first question is why is the investigative team assuming there
is one still at the city building why was it ever at the city building this is where they set up their Command Center
and his answer says the main reason is space the county does not have a facility which adequately provides for
what is needed for the investigation follow-up question who monitors and supervises the County investigators and
how is that monitoring done are there written records of time spent on the investigation he says as Sheriff I am in
charge of that responsibility but also our County investigators are professional and experienced I trust
their abilities we talk frequently a lot of times daily granted there are days there's nothing new to discuss and yes
records are kept next question is there there's still a team of investigators how many comprise that team and how
often do they meet and his answer is yes two County detectives two Indiana state
police detectives and from time to time outside detectives from other police agencies including the FBI a portion of
the team meets almost daily but with technology meetings are not always in person obviously with covid some
meetings have been by zoom and this is a question I have for you captain and I was wondering about this we're looking
at this investigation and going okay well it's 48 months later it's four years later
and a lot of people are going to judge the quality of the investigation based off of it's been this long and it's not
solved should anybody out there be grading on a curve a little bit because because of
covid because things have been shut down and because things have not been quote unquote normal
for approximately a year now no I agree with it it's a murder it should be solved as soon as possible and for all
we know they're doing everything in their power and all we can hope for is they're doing everything in their power
to get solved immediately and just because other walks of life can't go and work
as normal I don't see how covet or anything like that would have affected the investigation
it may have delayed things a touch but but I don't see how it would really directly affect the the investigation
well the way I think it's going to affect the investigation mainly is that the individual the local
individual is not going to be out amongst people this individual I believe is nervous
nervous about being caught if the Killer is stuck in their house and isolated then you're not going to have him slip
up and say something that maybe makes somebody suspicious or you he might not he's not might not be around the person
where he's he maybe he's telling his kids or telling somebody else's kids hey guys let's go over here and that's
enough for somebody to go wait a second I've heard that voice before so that's what it's doing it's isolating
the Killer by himself and there will be several follow-up questions to the questions we just went through as far as
quality control and what's going on with the inner workings of the investigation
and I'll kind of sum up his answers there uh he's basically saying look we have two County detectives that are
working this case that this is their primary case that they work we got two on the team from our agency
there's two from the Indiana State Police who oversees them well obviously I oversee my detectives Indiana State
Police oversee their detectives they're asked is there an FBI agent stationed at
the command center daily and the answer is no and he says but through technology
it's not difficult to communicate with the FBI this is interesting is the command center secure how many
people have keys to the command center outside of yourself the Indiana State Police two County detectives and the FBI
who has access to that room and you can see why it's obvious why this is an important question he says the the
people that have access to that room is anyone that is tied closely to the investigation
then a follow-up question of given the command center is out outside of your jurisdiction how do you
as a sheriff assure residents their information is well guarded and his answer is again those closely tied to
the investigation know what a top priority the case is and that the information is safe
foreign [Music] [Music] we're back cheers mates cheers to you Colonel cheers to you Captain cheers to all the
good people out there listening in their garages now on to County Safety which has to be a concern anybody in the area
that has a family trying to raise children we have this double homicide that's still unsolved four years later
we have investigators telling us that we believe it's highly profitable that the
offender is local he's somebody that could Yokel yeah a local Yokel that could uh go Loco and go
out and do this again yeah here's our question former Delphi police chief Steve Mullen stated at the first press
conference quote our people know what to do end quote after being asked if the community was in danger and what
precautions should residents take parents of school-aged children were taken aback by this statement
as the County's chief law enforcement officer our residents particularly young girls of Carroll County in danger given
the unsolved murders of six young girls so anybody that's not familiar with the area that area has had in the past five
years there's been six young girls in two incidents murdered and all of those cases are unsolved to
this day yeah so his answer is comparing Carroll County to others jurisdictions in our annual statistics I feel Carroll
County is one of the safest areas to live in I would much rather raise a family here than say a larger
metropolitan area I think it's a fair answer I think it's a nice way of dancing around do you think this guy's going to
kill again that that that that's really the question and should parents be concerned and I think this guy is scared
I think they know he's scared I think he knows he's being watched and he knows that he slipped up a little
bit and he hasn't been caught yet so he's just going I can't I can't slip up again
well and we kicked around the idea and everybody comes back to this is this a serial killer is this someone who's
killed before or is this someone that will kill again is it a serial killer or do they have the makings of being
becoming a serial killer and I think if in fact they do if they do have the makings of becoming a serial killer and
this was the first quote unquote event in what would be a series look there's a cooling off period
between murders for these guys and maybe his image his likeness his voice being broadcast to everyone
Nationwide has made this cooling off period extensive maybe it's the rest of his
life but I I feel like if if this guy were going to act again had that audio in the video
not come out right I think he would have already run the cycle of kill cool off start hunting
again and kill again and that's again where we have to applaud our two victims our two Brave Little victims here that
while they were not able to escape this man we have information on this guy that
I believe has forced him to lie dormant and not act on urges that he very likely
has yeah I completely agree the Carroll County and Delphi are small town USA yet
there has been a significant number of violent deaths in the last four years including the double murder on State
Route 29 where victims male and female were shot and burned a man was shot and killed near Deer Creek and a Delphi
police officer was recently found dead for a county with under 20 000 people that is two plus murders per year with
the majority being female according to National Data males make up 78 percent of all murder victims it appears the
opposite in Carroll County are females at a higher risk for violence in Carroll County
Mr Lazenby says in my professional opinion I would say no a lot of the situations again in my opinion are
coincidental and here's a good question Captain they want to know in the professional opinion of the sheriff
would he describe the deaths of the six females and again we're talking about the Flora case with the four young
victims and the Delphi case with two female victims what he described these deaths as planned and he goes on to say
no rather victims of circumstance or opportunity additionally Indiana State Police is the lead with the Flora
investigation our agency is not actively involved in that investigation so to clear things up he's basically
stating the the floor investigation we don't have anything to do with so right you're asking me to give my professional
expert opinion on something that I'm not involved in based off of that we have to
believe that his answer is in direct relation to the Delphi murders case exactly do you feel that these murders
are planned that these deaths are planned and he says no rather victims of circumstance or opportunity it's a very
interesting answer well I think that's that becomes a thing as we both believe the bridge was used as some for form of
trap like this individual would go to this park and go to these areas and and it's happenstance if if a victim comes
along great I'm not going to force it but I have my trap I have my idea of what I want to do in that context it's
like well yeah the whole idea was planned and maybe the whole idea was fantasized about but the the individual
never acted upon it because maybe he never had the opportune time and then the question becomes
did this killer actually mean to kill them or was his intention something else and
he lost control of the situation and lost control of himself and look if you're depending on your life and your
livelihood by approaching these girls maybe by taking control of them in some manner
and maybe one attacks you or fights back or whatever and you go well if they go to Cops
and they say I was trying to sexually harass them or offer them money for sexual favors and they turn me in my
life is over I think that becomes a question did this killer mean to kill them or was he reacting to their reaction to
whatever he was trying or attempting to do right and that's fascinating what I think is
very interesting though the the overlaps again where our theories overlap and and our strong feelings about the
case overlap is again all centralized on the bridge itself that the bridge was part of this man's planned strategy now
he says these are victims of circumstance or opportunity so then that means if I'm using this bridge to my benefit
to my advantage over my would-be Victim or victims then I'm either waiting and sitting lying and wait waiting and
watching looking for a potential victim and they present themselves they come to
the area by themselves and then I strike or if I'm going to use the bridge I have to lure my victim here
if it's somebody that I planned or picked out I have to get them to this area so it's it's very interesting I
keep going back to the bridge because I think it's such a centralized part of this case and and really a big reason
why things went down where and how that they did that day in February yeah I think some of this is similar to like a
Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer where they go around their neighborhood looking in Windows fantasizing about killing and I
think this individual did the same thing with that Park but like I said I believe
this individual has their own entrance and exit so sometimes people didn't even know that he was there this next
question is a judge has now stepped down for personal indiscretions with a prostitute
The Prostitute stated the judge tracked her via the court system the same judge jailed Mr Logan this
would be Ron Logan who people familiar with the case will know his property is right near where the the girls were
found this same judge jailed Mr Logan for probation violation shortly after the killings and called him a danger to
the community now four years later the judge has resigned the prosecutor has resigned and
no killer is behind bars conversely Mr Logan has been Cooperative with law enforcement he was visibly
shaken by the bodies being on his property and he openly allowed law enforcement and media on his property in
your professional opinion was Mr Logan targeted by the prosecutor or law enforcement and or judge
and our answer is no it may have appeared to be that way but a lot of it dealt with timing on the part of the
court system and when Mr Logan's case was handled look that may be true and I have no reason at all to not agree or to
not believe what the sheriff is saying and in fact I applaud the sheriff for taking the time to answer these
questions I think that he wants to be potentially even more transparent than than they have
and I think because you have multiple agencies working together that maybe he's not said as much as he would like
to put out there but he's being a team player so I have no reason to not believe Mr Lazenby but
I get what he's saying that it was just kind of coincidental on the timing of everything that they were working with
with Mr Ron Logan but at the same time I don't think that any of this stuff would
have been Amplified or magnified about Ron Logan's actions that day until the because this all came about
because those bodies were found and of course he needs to be looked at they're found on his property then they
very quickly figure out well he violated some some of his uh probation rules right on this day you know he he was uh
he drove to the dump which does not appear I don't know if that was part of his parole violation but he's not to be
drinking and driving and he was at a bar either the night before or the or the day that they were found or I'm sorry
the day that they went missing more importantly he was at a bar and that's a big No-No for Mr Logan and they did they
went after him pretty hard for all of that so I think that in this situation Captain Sheriff Lazenby can only answer
for his actions where he's being asked a question that involves a judge and a prosecutor as well and what went down
with Ron Logan might be more of their actions than the sheriffs well again another example of this is you put out
these sketches and people are going hey there's a sex offender in that area that kind of looks like this sketch
check him out and then they go and find out that the sex offender is not living where they're registered to be at a rest
will be made and the people will have to be punished for that it's just kind of you know it's it's just what happens and
I think in this case there's probably been a bunch of people that had nothing to do with this crime but now are locked
up or charges were brought against them because they weren't doing what they were supposed to do with their life the
next question is how many total tips have been received how many this year how many this month and his answer is
going to be vague but I think we can put in our own little work here and figure this out he says total throughout the
investigation is approximately five fifty thousand total throughout this investigation is approximately fifty
thousand so he's not giving an answer on how many tips have been submitted this year or this month he's just giving a
total number for the four years altogether I believe that it was in February or March of 2020 that it was
reported that they had received 43 000 tips roughly 43 000 tips at that time so you do the math get out the old Abacus
count it up on your fingers and toes it would appear that seven thousand roughly
would be in the last year the last 365 days so that's still a good amount of tips if if my math is in fact correct
there Captain yeah it's because this community wants to see this case solved when a tip comes in take us through the
step-by-step process of how that tip is processed by the tip line operator to how it is distributed to the
investigators please describe what tipsters are told and the follow-up and his answer is tips which come into the
system are entered into a database each tip is then reviewed by investigators and prioritized email tips receive an
automated response if investigators need additional information from a tipster they contact that individual directly
this is something we've talked about before plenty of times on the show I've had people complain to me directly about
other cases not Delphi specifically but other cases where they say I've submitted a tip to law enforcement
that was a year ago I've never heard back from them that's not their job they're not going to get back to you and
say all right uh Colonel this is what we did with your tip buddy yeah you don't submit a tip and then become a visor
right on on the case I I submitted a tip so now do I get a B on the grand jury now it does doesn't work that way now of
course there are agencies that are lazy and then there are other agencies that just do their due diligence and go above
and beyond and work their butts off and get get things solved but nine times out of ten if not even
greater percentage than that you're not getting a call back or any type of follow-up unless they need more
information from you right normally whatever you give them if it's substantial they'll be able to
confirm or deny your request pretty quickly that's correct what I wish they would work harder on is like we've said
this a step in the right direction you can't sit there and tell me that the profile is too close to the chest where
you can't share the profile I think that's what we should do we should get behind first our movement of
stop Global winding but also specific to this case let's well it's not and stop sniffing butts let's amp up this idea of
hey if you got a profile which they should I mean they're they've worked on this case for four years
if you've got a profile let's release that to the public let's put that out there I I think it's
well overdue for that fact next question you stated in last week's article the additional audio recording on Libby's
cell phone would not be released but it has been stated by the HLN interviewer that in fact an additional two minutes
of recording was shared with the family how can you justify this okay so what they're referencing here
you stated in last week's article they received so many questions that were sent into the Carroll County comment for
Sheriff lessenby that they actually had to run it back to back weeks because they had so many questions they gave
them to the sheriff and he said you know what I'll open this up to a second round
of of questions this goes back to exactly what we were talking about before we all know that there's
additional audio we know that from what the family members have said throughout this whole four years
it's just it doesn't appear that any of that is of of any value to finding Bridge guy somebody cleaned up the audio
maybe it was the FBI maybe they had to have a local technician do it they probably heard the
extra audio I don't think there's any Monumental thing that we're going to learn from the extra audio we're going
to learn more from a profile being released than anything and I really I'm going to keep harping on this
but I think they should have released it because every profile I've seen from ex-fbi or
or other individuals involved in this case as far as like when they're being interviewed and they go well I think the
individual is this or blah blah blah if you put all that together there's a profile and we would have learned like I
said so much more from that profile than maybe even the sketch and I think they believe that this individual is not a
criminal has not been in the system and that's why look everybody like I said anytime
there was a murder that took place or or there was a registered sex offender or a
rapist or whoever the whole True Crime World went oh that must be Bridge guy mm-hmm and so I think
we've all been looking for a criminal the whole time and I don't think this individual is or he's someone that has
the ability to commit crimes and go undetected well I mean here's just a couple of things that I gathered from
these interviews crime was sexual is about power and control this individual was calm maybe so calm that they're like
a social path he's local the bridge was a trap he is normal he's not threatening he probably has a good
job probably makes more money than the average individual in Delphi he's probably married has kids BTK
killer-like I mean that's that's a lot of stuff and or Golden State killer I mean you could
the list goes on and on and on of these these monsters that are able to live in different compartments live double lives
right and go undetected and may even be seen as an upstanding citizen in the community oh yeah that's a couple other
things uh this individual is somebody that nobody would believe is capable of a crime like this this individual is
connected to a church similar to like BTK well along those same lines Captain here we are again right in step with the
the questions that were provided and the answers that Sheriff lessenby gave to those questions it says does a database
exist that contains Carroll County violent crime data if so how can the public access this this goes to the idea
that this would be some guy that is out committing crimes and we're aware that he's doing them that he's on a list
somewhere in a database and Sheriff lessenby's answer is obviously we have extensive records of each jail booking
which reflect each individual's particular arrest violation it can be publicly accessed but the
request must be specific to a person or their alleged arrest violation slash crime
meaning you can't just get on there and go I'm looking for somebody who did something Despicable out in the woods
somewhere and then you get a boom a list of people and you can go well Bridge guy might be
on this list somewhere no you need to be researching and looking up a specific person and or their alleged arrest
violation and crime what sorts of information do investigators continue to look at for this case I love this answer
it's very vague but I think it's on point his answer is several aspects specifically associated with February 13
2017 meaning that day is by far the most important day to these investigators that know so much
more than we do right than any other day as far as they're concerned that means the day that the bodies were found the
day before when they went missing is more important the day that so and so was arrested four counties over for a
sexual homicide no February 13 2017 is more important than that day more important than any day in any other
suspect that came about via the public or the internet they know that the one piece remember
they're still looking for that one piece they say we will know what that one piece is we'll be able to identify it as
soon as it's presented to us or we we find it ourselves they know that the one piece they're looking for is going to be
some information that is based off of something that happened on February 13 2017. yeah it could be something as
small as putting a certain person in a certain area at a certain time yeah and maybe what they're getting at
with that is does this person have some kind of Alibi that they don't believe is
a good Alibi correct is this someone that was traveling on that day the thing that's that's very interesting and one
thing that we have to remind ourselves it's very easy to to get very confused and to get torn apart by all this
different stuff going on the minutia of this case of things that that have been presented that probably have nothing to
do with the solution to this investigation right you gotta look at the very Bare Bones of
it and remind yourself of one simple fact okay we know that the Snapchat picture
of the girls going across the bridge was posted a little after 2 p.m that day and then we have law enforcement on
record stating that we have strong reason to believe or almost at times talking about
it like it's a fact that everything was over with said and done at 3 30 PM so we know this dude
Bridge guy was unaccounted for for that hour and a half two o'clock to 3 30. where was he
if you got somebody that you suspect and he wasn't at work at that time I don't care if he got off work at 1 45. I don't
care if you saw him at 3 15 and he was clean as a whistle this guy was unaccounted for for that hour and a half
we know that to be fact and I think that's really what they're honing in on and in a roundabout way
maybe reminding the public of that as well yeah the colonel getting heated up next question do the investigators
follow tips from social media this is interesting one person a Sean Harmon posted that his father and son were
connected to the homicides and I gotta be fully honest here Captain right I don't know who Sean Harmon is but he's
he's listed in this article here yeah he's a guy that came forward and said hey my I believe my father and my son
had something to do with this and if you look at his father he looks like Bridge
guy number one the first sketch his son looks like Bridge guy number two the second sketch yeah and and his I believe
his son was a part of the military for a while so it's a weird thing to try to throw your dad and your son under the
bus at the same time and then you're named publicly as having done that yeah and so what they want to know was this
tip investigated fully and Sheriff Lazenby says the simple response is yes information which is felt to be
legitimate to the investigation is followed into this is not the arena for speaking to a particular inquiry or tip
but he's saying look if we find something on social media that we find of interest to
the case we'll investigate it if something's presented to us that came from social media that we think is
important to the investigation we follow up on it makes sense and then another follow-up question to what we're really
pounding on the desk for is there a profile of the killer or killers and his answer is it has been discussed with
experts so again I think we just need to Echo the idea of its time to to Really strongly consider releasing that profile
to the public now Sheriff lesson B again I want to applaud him for taking up his
valuable time to answer the questions of the community I think it shows his dedication to the
investigation and shows his dedication to the the community that he serves and to the community that his Department
serves he does offer up a final comment that says it has been intriguing and thought-provoking to be able to engage
in these presented questions the past two weeks I realize not all agree with my responses however I have received
responses of the affirmative aspect too as Sheriff the utmost importance in my opinion is the Integrity of the
investigation the only way we will resolve to gain Justice for Abby and Libby for their respective families and
our caring Community is to remain dedicated to the preservation of said Integrity I believe we wholeheartedly
owe that to these two wonderful young ladies all right colonel or should I call you Billy
billy goat what are your thoughts on this case four years later I'm losing optimism
and I've done this in other cases as well and it doesn't take me much to get back on board
but I'm losing optimism I understand that tips have still come in I estimate 7 000 in the last 365 days
I question the quality of those tips we have 50 000 overall in the investigation I think there's probably a
lot of fluff in there that unfortunately investigators have had to sift through I do not say that to try to deter
anybody from reaching out to law enforcement or providing a tip I want to be clear about that I'm I'm standing at
the top of the mountain and shouting it as loud as I can if you see something say something if
you know something tell law enforcement because I do believe 100 they are in fact just that one piece away I did like
hearing the sheriff say look that one piece what is it well our trained experts will know
it's not something that will that will go be lost on us in the moment this is something that we will know right away
I also believe what I've said for the past year year and a half maybe even two years I
had said at one point that I was very optimistic believing that the case would have been solved by the end of that year
and I believe I said that in 2020 but I'm losing optimism in that way and a large part of it is going back to
something I've said all along I believe for whatever reason Bridge guy had help that day or since then
and this has been a huge speed bump in the case it may have even sent detectives and
investigators looking elsewhere I think that someone is either willingly or unknowingly providing some type of false
Alibi for bridge guy and his whereabouts between I would say noon and 5 p.m if you got a guy that you suspect or you
think is capable of this let's underline that capable of this because there's very few people capable of something
like this if you don't know where he was between noon and five and he's he's a local
or has reason to have been in the Delphi area on February 13th right give that name to law enforcement that's
how they're going to find their answer what about what are your thoughts four years later
I think you're exactly right I have somebody that I think is a suspect I think their wife is their Alibi I think
she's lied about The Alibi I think she has pieces of information that prove possibly where they were to prove their
Alibi I think that's what's holding up law enforcement I think she's lying about that I think it's easily provable
that she is lying about it I believe that she has stated to people that so glad we have an alibi so we don't become
suspects I believe this is an individual that has a which is a bizarre thing to say normal people don't say I'm glad
that we have a timeline of our whereabouts so we're not suspects and the fact of the matter is I know that
she's lying I have confirmation that she's lying about your guys's whereabouts I think this individual
makes good money nobody would expect that he would do this he's connected to his church
he has kids possibly grandkids I think he's older than what they're claiming the suspect is and the drawing I think
they said 17 to 40. I think he was older I think he was late 40s but such a young
face that he could look probably the late 30s and I think he's local he entered on foot exit on foot he knows
the area he knows all the properties around there that's the direction he goes to enter the park
he uses that bridge when he enters the park and I think he was able to get to a place of safety without being
detected being covered in blood and to be able to get to a facility where he could
get rid of all the evidence all his clothes I think again he makes more money than the average person in Delphi
his house is worth anywhere from five to six times more than the average house average property
in Delphi again I think this is an individual that nobody around him thinks he's even capable of this
but I think this is about it's a crime of sexual nature power control he remained calm I think this individual
is very smart he's very intelligent Beyond College graduate school again leader of a
company this is his second career already had a career this is his second career I believe Maybe
there's somebody in his Circle that suspects him and if you do call pick up the phone
and just say look I I know this guy and and I I suspect him I also believe that this person claimed at one point that
they're going to leave the area due to it not being safe and maybe they've even lied about selling property
or leaving the area and anyone out there scratching their heads right now going well how would
this person be respected in the community how would this guy not be known how how do we not know the people that know
this man the best how do they not suspect him well keep in mind Dennis Raider BTK
volunteered at his church for years and he used the church's property to carry out at least one of his murders
nobody in the church knew this guy was capable of doing what he did what we now know for a fact that Dennis Rader
did and he did it time and time again in this case in Delphi the one thing that I am most confident
about and what can be what puts this monster into a different category than someone
that just goes out and commits a crime of passion or some dumb criminal that does a crime
on impulse is I think a big reason why he seems so calm on that day so relaxed and you almost hear it in his
tone is because he has fantasized about aspects of this crime for years he's thought about it for years and he was
acting on those fantasies when he went out there on February 13th I would not be surprised if he was acting on those
same fantasies at an earlier date while he sat there watching and waiting looking for what he would determine to
be the perfect victim and for whatever reason he acted on February 13th but the one thing we we do know that he
has not done is he has not since told somebody else I'm the one that killed those two girls
I'm the bridge guy if he has told someone else the person that has received that information from this guy
has such a little heart and such a little soul maybe no soul at all that they've not reported that to anyone
I think this individual when they released the new drawing the new sketch that they eased up a
little bit and went they're further away from me than I think they are but look the Stampede is coming your flood
is coming and they're not going to let you on to Noah's Ark they're going to catch you
and you'll probably crumble like a baby and tell them anything and everything they want to know
to try to spare your own life what you deserve is death that's what you deserve and your flood is coming my friend
and I hope they don't even give you the option to take that off the table I hope
they're holding so much close to their chest and not telling the public because when they get you
this is personal to them now and your day is coming your flood is coming [Music]
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Delphi Murders /// 4 Years Later /// Part 2 /// 469

Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

February 13 marked four years since two middle school students Liberty German and Abigail Williams went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail and did not return alive. It was announced that there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary. Many are looking for an update and some more information on this case. Well here it is. Join Nic & the Captain in the Garage as they take a look at the now four year old investigation. This week TCG explores some new information coming out of Carroll County, Indiana. This is a case that the Garage has followed from the start and will be there when it is finally over.

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Brief Summary

Sheriff Lazenby discusses the Delphi murder case, communication issues, and community safety concerns four years after the crime.

Key points

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Hosts Nick and Captain introduce the show and thank listeners for their support.
Sheriff Lazenby's Communication Concerns. Sheriff discusses the importance of withholding information for trial integrity.
The Local Suspect Theory. Discussion on the belief that the suspect is local or familiar with the area.
The Killer's Isolation. Experts discuss how the killer's isolation may prevent mistakes.
Community Safety Concerns. Residents worry about safety with unsolved murders in the area.
Unsolved Murders in Carroll County. A troubling statistic of violent deaths raises alarm in a small community.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Why do we not know what happened after 48 months?

Discussion about the ongoing investigation and lack of information.

10:06WatchNov 3, 2022

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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