Delphi Murders /// 4 Years Later /// Part 2 /// 469 | Forensic Files

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[Music] cry continuing on with our questions for Shar Shi to lesen be in the deli murder
investigation we now reach the point where we are discussing what they are calling the communication portion of the
question submitted to the good Sheriff the question here is the lack of communication on the part of your
department and law enforcement is a significant concern for many individuals the exception seems to be the families
of the victims why do you think this is the case Sheriff lesen says I respectfully
disagree with this statement as I have said since the beginning much of what we protect and keep close to the vest is
preserved for the courtroom and trial to release too much information would in my
opinion potentially taint a jury before a trial even begins and as most know the
double jeopardy Clause exist in the US Constitution which means in short the prosecutor only has one chance at
Prosecuting this case I feel as Sheriff I have been very open and accessible at least to mainstream media and answered
most questions reasonably well a couple things there one when they try this case
and they will one day they're going to seek the death penalty period and that's even harder to get a conviction when you
seek that that's what they'll seek that's what they'll get Indiana will execute this murder
the other reason that the public the public wants more information that doesn't mean that we deserve more
information the people that do deserve more information is the family but again if you look at a lot of interviews from
Kelsey it seems as if her grandparents have seen all the video footage listened to all the audio footage probably have
seen more information than the public has been allowed to see yes what I have been told
by Kelsey specifically and what I've seen other family members say in interviews or on record is that yes they
have seen additional portions of the video and heard additional portions of the audio and there's nothing really on
there is what what they have said what I find to be very interesting is to blazen
be his answers really very similar well why haven't you released more of the video if you have it he doesn't say we
don't have more video or audio he says there's nothing Earth shattering on there that would tell John Q
public oh now I know who did this there's nothing that's going to move anybody in that way and take this a step
further here Captain I have heard in one interview where lesen B said that there
wasn't really any useful additional audio of bridge guy right and the recording well and they had one of the
sheriff's on the down the hill documentary say it's not a super lengthy video that they have mhm the general
consensus seems to be what about 2 and a half minutes potentially of video Andor
audio Yeah I think there was a bunch of different rumors there but I think the thing too for the public at first law
enforcement releases one photo which is from a video and then they go hey let's let's add a little bit bit to that then
they give you a little bit more after a time period of nobody coming forward and
saying a 100% for certainty that that's the guy and then they're able to lock up
the guy with those pictures if there was a better image they would have released
the better image correct that's probably the best image that they have and I want
to take this a step further here Captain another thing that has been said so the
most common questions that I see recycled time and time again to law enforce is why haven't you released
additional audio and or video if it does in fact exist and why have you not disclose the cause of death the manner
of of death in this investigation to hit on that second one they have outwardly said and I agree
with this 100% they say that the manner of death would not help anybody in the public
again say oh I now know who who did this I now can submit a tip because I know how they were killed right that has to
be true I I back that up 100% does the prosecutor rely on you to determine what information is given to the public or
does he make that decision independently and here to lesen is going to point out that they are both elected
officials they are both held to a different set of rules so they both act accordingly inside those set of rules so
he's saying no the prosecutor doesn't tell me what I can or cannot say and no I do not tell him what he can and cannot
say the next question is there is a surging movement Across the Nation from professional investigators and others
insisting the police release more details about the crime scene and the investigation not to mention the
entirety of the video and audio found on Libby's phone why are you not releasing
information and go on to reference text written by Searchers on the scene are now on the internet for everyone to see
there is also dispatch audio from when the girls were found on the internet now given these facts how can you justify
not releasing more information he's going to give the same answer here as we've seen before I respectfully
disagree with this statement he's trying to Pro protect the Integrity of their investigation reminding that because of
Double Jeopardy the pro utor has one shot at this thing question the prosecutor fought in court not to
release the 911 tapes of the Flora fire and won he has publicly stated all release of information concerning the
deli girls must go through him all murders are unsolved for four plus years National statistics state after one year
that there is less than 5% chance of an arrest is Carol County doing the right thing by by guarding information after 4
years or are they endangering other children due to the prosecutor's office lack of experience based on your
professional experience Gathering evidence again he's going to respectfully disagree with this
statement as well they're not releasing more information for they don't want to potentially taint a jury before a trial
even begins I found one thing to be quite interesting and rather clever and a bit sad one of the mothers of of the
victims said in the down the hill two-part special she said we all hear how bad and how difficult a case can be
to solve after 48 Hours has expired now we have this case and it's been 48 months yeah we're between a rock and a
hard place and I don't think any of us thought we would be sitting here having the same conversation of who is bridg
Guy why do we not know what happened after 48 months I don't know if you picked up on this but lately in some of
the interviews I've listened to and then with the documentary it seems like they're they're 100% confident that this
individual is is a local well and I agree with that it but but it's a much longer answer than just that they say we
believe he he lives in Deli or was from Deli by he's you know a local or was local at one point or may work here so
there's something there's a local aspect to this suspect MH and it could be something where he grew up in the area
maybe he lived there for the first 20 years of his life and he's not been there the last several years or however
old he is or yes he is a local or he works there I I believe that to be true for many reasons one I think think that
one thing that's very telling is Kelsey she's the sister of one of the victims and other family members of these two
victims have said that there are people that live in Deli that have never walked
across that bridge MH there are people in Deli that have never gone to those Trails there's people that don't even
know that bridge exists correct so and I believe that that bridge was a big part
of his strategy for for cornering yeah it's a trap I think we both believe that bridge was used as a trap and I think
again moving look there's two different theories I think me and you have we butt
heads a little bit on this I think you believe that the individuals parked possibly at the cemetery and that he was
leading them to the cemetery and maybe a struggle happened and he decided to or or he got angry and decided to murder
him there I believe he moved him in that direction because he knew where Logan's
house was and knew that in order to you know get them away from anybody that possibly could see him or them you would
have to move them in that direction because if you move them in any other direction well one you you're not going
to take them back over the bridge and you're not going to move them in any other direction because there's property
there and houses there yeah and one thing I think we can agree on for certain and where are theories kind of
overlap is that all of those actions would be the same in both Theory where you're you're moving you've used the
bridge as a strategy to Corner your victims whoever they would be and then you're moving your victim Andor victims
in a manner that you're going away from where you would be spotted where you would run into some trouble and so the
bridge and all of that land private and otherwise on the other side of the bridge where the girls were killed was
part of that strategy and for it to be part of the strategy this is knowledge that this man had prior to that day
something he very likely thought about and considered when going about the business of that day moving on to the
terrain portion of the questions Captain this question is there are many residents of the county that have never
been on the trails the describe the terrain of where the girls were found what is the most direct route out of the
area they were found how long of a walk from where they entered to where they were found um his answer is very similar
to one of the state parks I I'm guessing he's saying that's about how the the size of the place a lot of Hills brush
trees Etc directly south of the morning Heights Cemetery but on private property
I do not recall the specific distance okay so that must be where they were found that's his vague answer is
directly south of the morning Heights Cemetery but on private property I do not recall the specific distance here's
where you can go from from the bridge entrance or exit however the end of the bridge the south end of the High Bridge
is what it would be called to the crime scene or or where the bodies were found that's less than a quarter mile away
from that where the bodies were found to the cemetery is roughly about a quarter
mile away and this next question follows along that same the same thoughts that we're having and and sharing right now
are in step with what we've been talking about Ron Logan has stated on news programs the only way to get to the site
I guess the where the girls were found the murder scene is over difficult terrain and private property given the
difficulty getting to where the bodies were found many believe the killer or killers were familiar with the area do
you as a law enforcement officer believe that as well and his answer is very much
so it is part of the reason why we continually feel it is a quote local or someone who was very familiar with the
area well here's what I know for certain I I feel this 100% in my bones this individual has a their own ENT and exit
to the bridge or to that park again we differ on how they get there but this area that's how they
enter and exit yes if if a vehicle was used or was used in this crime I have a whole different set of ideas but one
thing that is fascinating to me is if this person would have been able to arrive on scene by foot and leave the
scene by foot there again you would have a whole lot less likelihood that there would be any other video from other
sources on bridge guy and that might explain why we don't have any other footage from anywhere else of bridge guy
leaving the scene or arriving on the scene I 100% believe he arrived and exited by foot and I also believe that's
why there's zero eyewitness with as many people were at the park with the distance he would had to cover
go back through the actual entrance and exit of the park that somebody would have saw this individual and this
individual would have had to be covered in blood that's what is proof to me that
this individual showed up on foot and left on foot next question who organized the search teams on February 13th and
February 14th how were individuals divided into teams and how were the search areas determined
answer it was a combined effort involving a number of First Responders police Fire EMS and community volunteers
divided mainly by their association with various entities firefighters went with
firefighters and so forth and anybody that's listened to our show for a while will know from from cases that we've
covered specifically with missing persons cases that a lot of the searches might be overseen by law enforcement or
the sheriff's department but firefighters have a different skill set and a different set of techniques and
they're very good at search and rescue that's what they do when your house is on fire right often times we will see
and have seen in many cases that we've covered that the fire department is usually a very big part in deciding the
leadership of the search teams and the goals you know or or how they're going to go about search searching a
particular area or where they do search so that question and answer makes a lot of sense what is not question and I've
failed to put it on my questions but it's one thing that I asked Kelsey when I spoke with her and it's something that
I've asked anybody that's gotten close to this case that's talked to the people in charge and I said did they require
any kind of identification by the people that showed up to search on the 14th did you take
records of any of those people did you write down their names their addresses their phone number did you did you ask
for identification before they signed up to search how organized was it and we know from other serial cases these guys
return to the area we talked about Amy Mahal's case there's a guy that's a suspect right now because they believe
that they saw his vehicle the day that her body was found months later after the abduction they believe they saw his
vehicle passing through a four-way stop near the body recovery site and he had no reason to be there whatsoever right
so that puts him on a whole different list of prioritized suspects and here I would not be shocked if Bridge guy
returned to the scene to assist in the search efforts on the 14th if he was in fact that relaxed mhm If he if if if we
can dump him in the category of any of these other monsters that we've discussed on the show it would not Shock
me it would not surprise me if in fact he ended up on a search team on the 14th well and what we we've learned from
other cases like Stephen Avery that that crime scene or that location where they're looking for individuals was you
know pretty contained and pretty small compared to a park and there's several people that showed up to those searches
that never signed in and some of the people that were conducting the searches didn't sign in I think again 100% this
individual was there on the 14th they knew what they did and they knew that by being there at the search that hey you
you got to you got a piece of uh clothing of mine or you got a a cup with some DNA of mine on it well I can argue
that away that I was at the search so of course you have an item from me that I left behind the next two sets of
questions will really be based around the command center and the County Safety the safety of the residents in the
county since it is an unsolved homicide case and I love this round of questioning because this is really the
checks and balances portion the quality control portion you got to check in with
these officials you know how many people does to lesen be answer to not many is the answer how many people does the
prosecutor answer to not many but at the end of the day they're both elected officials they answer to the community
as a whole so I love that we have this little bit of checks and balances I loved seeing the mother of one of the
victims say in her interview you know there are days that I feel like I should drive over to the the police Department
the the sheriff's department and say okay guys what is it that we're doing today what on our
investigation are we working on today are we working on anything because it's been four years so let's go through this
quality control bit right here Captain the first question is why is the investigative team assuming there is one
still at the city building why was it ever at the city building this is where they set up their Command Center and his
answer says the main reason in a space the county does not have a facility which adequately provides for what is
needed for the investigation followup question who monitors and supervises the County investigators and how is that
monitoring done are there written records of time spent on the investigation he says as Sheriff I am in
charge of that responsibility but also our County investigators are professional and experienced I trust
their abilities we talk frequently a lot of times daily granted there are days there's nothing new to discuss and yes
records are kept next question is there still a team of investigators how many comprise that team and how often do they
meet his answer is yes two County detectives two Indiana state police detectives and from time to time outside
detectives from other police agencies including the FBI die a portion of the team meets almost daily but with
technology meetings are not always in person obviously with covid some meetings have been by zoom and this is a
question I have for you captain and I was wondering about this we're looking at this investigation and going okay
well it's 48 months later it's 4 years later and a lot of people are going to judge the quality of the investigation
based off of it's been this long and it's not solved should anybody out there be grading on a
curve a little bit because because of covid because things have been shut down and because things have not been quote
unquote normal for approximately a year now no I agree with you it's it's a murder it should be solved as soon as
possible and for all we know they're doing everything in their power and all we can hope for is they're doing
everything in their power to get it solved immediately and just because other walks of life can't go and work as
normal I don't see how covid or anything like that would have affected the investigation it may have delayed things
a touch but but I don't see how it would really directly affect the the investigation well the way I think it's
going to affect the investigation mainly is that the individual the local individual is not
going to be out amongst people this individual I believe is nervous nervous about being caught if
the Killer is stuck in their house and isolated then you're not going to have him slip up and say something that maybe
makes somebody suspicious or you he might not he's not might not be around the person where he's he maybe he's
telling his kids or telling somebody else's kids hey guys let's go over here and that's enough for somebody to go
wait a second and I've heard that voice before so that's what it's doing it's isolating the Killer by himself and
there will be several follow-up questions to the questions we just went through as far as quality control and
what's going on with the inner workings of the in investigation and I'll kind of
sum up his answers there uh he's basically saying look we have two County detectives that are working this case
that this is their primary case that they work we got two on the team from our agency
there's two from the Indiana State Police who oversees them well obviously I oversee my detectives Indiana State
Police oversee their detectives they're asked is there an FBI agent stationed at
the command center daily and the answer is no and he says but through technology
it's not difficult to communicate with the FBI this is interesting is the command center secure how many people
have have keys to the command center outside of yourself the Indiana State Police two County detectives and the FBI
who has access to that room and you can see why it's obvious why this is an important question he says the the
people that have access to that room is anyone that is tied closely to the investigation then a follow-up question
of given the command center is outside of your jurisdiction how do you as a sheriff sh assure residents their
information is well guarded and his answer is again those closely tied to the investigation know what a top
priority the case is and that the information is [Music] safe this show is sponsored by better
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[Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers to you Colonel cheers to you Captain
cheers to all the good people out there listening in their garages now on to County Safety which has to be a concern
anybody in the area that has a family trying to raise children we have this double homicide that's still unsolved 4
years later we have investigators telling us that we believe it's highly probable that the offender is
local he's somebody that Lo yo yeah local Yoko that could go Loco and go out and do this again yeah here's our
question former Deli police chief Steve Mullen stated at the first press conference quote our people know what to
do end quote after being asked if the community was in danger and what PR cautions should residents take parents
of schoolage children were taken aback by this statement as the County's chief law enforcement officer are residents
particularly young girls of Carrol County in danger given the unsolved murders of six young girls so anybody
that's not familiar with the area that area has had in the past 5 years there's been six young girls in two incidents
murdered and all of those cases are unsolved to this day yeah so his answer is comparing Carol County to other
jurisdictions in our annual statistics I feel Carol County is one of the safest areas to live in I would much rather
raise a family here than say a larger metropolitan area I think it's a fair answer I think it's a nice way of
dancing around do you think that this guy's going to kill again that that that that's really the question and should
parents be concerned and I think this guy is scared I think they know he's scared I think he knows he's being
watched and he knows that he slipped up a little bit and he hasn't been caught yet so he's just going I can't I can't
slip up again well and we kicked around the idea and everybody comes back to this is this a serial killer is this
someone who's killed before or is this someone that will kill again is it a serial killer or do they have the
makings MH of being becoming a serial killer and I think if in fact they do if they do have the makings of becoming a
serial killer and this was the first quote unquote event in what would be a series look there's a cooling off period
between murders for these guys and maybe his image his likeness his voice being broadcast to to
everyone Nationwide has made this cooling off period extensive maybe it's the rest of
his life but I I feel like if I if this guy were going to act again had that audio and the video not come out right I
think he would have already run the cycle of kill cool off start hunting again and kill again mhm and that's
again where we have to clud our two victims our two Brave Little victims here that while they were not able to
escape this man we have information on this guy that I believe has forced him to lie dormant and not act on urges that
he very likely has yeah I completely agree the Carol County and Deli are small town USA yet there has been a
significant number of violent deaths in the last 4 years including the double murder on State Route 29 where victims
male and female were shot and burned a man was shot and killed near Deer Creek and a deli police officer was recently
found dead for a county with under 20,000 people that is two plus murders per year with the majority being female
according to National Data males make up 78% of all murder victims it appears the
opposite in Carol County are females at a higher risk for violence in Carol County Mr lesby says in my professional
opinion I would say no a lot of the situations again in my opinion are coincidental and here's a good question
Captain they want to know in the professional opinion of the sheriff would he describe the deaths of the six
females and again we're talking about the Flora case with the four Young young victims in the deli case with two female
victims would he describe these deaths as planned and he goes on to say no rather victims of circumstance or
opportunity additionally Indiana State Police is the lead with the flo investigation our agency is not actively
involved in that investigation so to clear things up he's basically stating the the floor investigation we don't
have anything to do with so right you're asking me to give my professional expert
opinion on something that I'm not involved in based off of that we have to believe that his answer is in direct
relation to the deli murders case exactly do you feel that these murders are planned that these deaths are
planned and he says no rather victims of circumstance or opportunity it's a very
interesting answer well I think that's that becomes a thing is we both believe the bridge was used as some for form of
trap like this individual would go to this park and go to these areas and and it's happen stance if if a victim comes
along great I'm not going to force it but I have my trap I have my idea of what I want to do in that context it's
like well yeah the whole idea was planned and maybe the whole idea was fantasized about but the the individual
never acted upon it cuz maybe he never had the opportune time and then the question becomes did this kill
actually mean to kill them or was his intention something else and he lost control of the situation and lost
control of himself and look if you're depending on your life and your livelyhood
by approaching these girls maybe by taking control of them in some Manner and maybe one attacks you or fights back
or whatever and you go well if they go to Cops and they say I was trying to sexually harass them or offer them money
for sexual favors and they turn me in my life is over I think that becomes a question did this killer mean to kill
them or was he reacting to their reaction to whatever he was trying or attempting to do right and that's
fascinating what I think is very interesting though that that overlaps again where our theories
overlap and and our strong feelings about the case overlap is again all centralized on the bridge itself that
the bridge was part of this man's planned strategy now he says these are victims of circumstance or opportunity
so then that means if I'm using this bridge to my benefit to my advantage over my would be
victim or victims then I'm either waiting and sitting lying and wait waiting and watching looking for a
potential victim and they present themselves they come to the area by themselves and then I strike or if I'm
going to use the bridge I have to lure my victim here if it's somebody that I planned or picked out I have to get them
to this area so it's it's very interesting I keep going back to the bridge because I think it's such a
centralized part of this case and and really a big reason why things went down where and how that they did that day in
February yeah I think some of this is similar to like a Ted Bundy or Jeffrey dmer where they go around their
neighborhood looking in Windows fantasizing about killing and I think this individual did the same thing with
that Park but like I said I believe this individual has their own entrance and exit so sometimes people didn't even
know that he was there this next question is a judge has now stepped down for personal indiscretions with a
prostitute The Prostitute stated the judge tracked her via the court system the same judge jailed Mr Logan this
would be Ron Logan who people familiar with the case will know his property is right near where the the girls were
found this same judge jailed Mr Logan for probation violation shortly after the killings in called him a danger to
the community now 4 years later the judge has resigned the prosecutor has resigned and no killer is behind bars
conversely Mr Logan has been Cooperative with law enforcement he was visibly shaken by the bodies being on his
property and he openly allowed law enforcement and media on his property in your professional opinion was Mr Logan
targeted by the prosecutor or law enforcement Andor judge and our answer is no it may have
appeared to be that way but a lot of it dealt with timing on the part of the court system and when Mr Logan's case
was handled look that may be true and I have no reason at all to not agree or to
not believe what the sheriff is saying in fact I applaud the sheriff for taking the time to answer these questions I
think that he wants to be potentially even more transparent than than they have and I think because you have
multiple agencies working together that maybe he's not said as much as he would like to put out there but he's being a
team player so I have no reason to not believe Mr lesen B but I get what he's saying that it was just kind of
coincidental on the timing of everything that they were working with with Mr Ron
Logan but at the same time I don't think that any of this stuff would have been Amplified or or magnified about Ron
Logan's actions that day until thec this all came about because those bodies were
found and of course he needs to be looked at they're found on his property then they very quickly figure out well
he violated some some of his uh probation rules right on this day you know he he he was um he drove to the
dump which does not appear I don't know if that was part of his parole violation
but he's not to be drinking and driving and he was at a bar either the night before or the or the day that they were
found or I'm sorry the day that they went missing more importantly he was at a bar and that's a big no no for Mr
Logan and they did they went after him pretty hard for all of that so I think that in this situation Captain Sheriff
lasenby can only answer for his actions where he's being asked a question that involves a judge and a prosecutor as
well and what went down with Ron Logan might be more of their actions than the sheriff's well
again another example of this is you put out these sketches and people are going
hey there's a sex offender in that area that kind of looks like this sketch check him out and then they go and find
out that the sex offender is not living where registered to be at arrest will be
made and the people will have to be punished for that it's just kind of you know it's it's just what happens and I
think in this case there's probably been a bunch of people that had nothing to do
with this crime but now are locked up or charges were brought against them because they weren't doing what they
were supposed to do with their life the next question is how many total tips have been received how many this year
how many this month and his answer is going to be vague but I think we can put in our own little work here and figure
this out he says total throughout the investigation is approximately five 50,000 total throughout this
investigation is approximately 50,000 so he's not giving an answer on how many tips have been submitted this year or
this month he's just giving a total number for the four years Al together I believe that it was in February AR or
March of 2020 that it was reported that they had received 43,000 tips roughly 43,000 tips at that
time so you do the math get out the old Abacus count it up on your fingers and toes it would appear that 7,000 roughly
would be in the last year the last 365 days so that's still a good amount of tips if if my math is in fact correct
there Captain yeah it's because this Comm Community wants to see this case solved when a tip comes in take us
through the step-by-step process of how that tip is processed by the tip line operator to how it is distributed to the
investigators please describe what tipsters are told and the followup and his answer is tips which come into the
system are entered into a database each tip is then reviewed by investigators and
prioritized email tips receive an automated response if investigators need additional information from a tipster
they contact that individual directly this is something we've talked about before plenty of times on the show
I've had people complain to me directly about other cases not Deli specifically but other cases where they say I've
submitted a tip to law enforcement that was a year ago I've never heard back from them that's not their job they're
not going to get back to you and say all right uh Colonel this is what we did with your tip buddy yeah you don't
submit a tip and then become a visor on on the case hey I submitted a tip so now do I get a be on the grand
jury no does doesn't work that way now of course there are agencies that are lazy and then there are other agencies
that just do their due diligence and go above and beyond and work their butts off and get get things solved but nine
times out of 10 if not even greater percentage than that you're not getting a call back or any type of followup
unless they need more information from you right normally whatever you give them if it's substantial they'll be able
to confirm or deny your request pretty quickly that's correct what I wish they would work harder on is like we've said
the a step in the right direction you you can't sit there and tell me that the profile is too close to the chest where
you can't sh share the profile I think that's what we should do we should get behind first our movement of stop Global
whining but also specific to this case let's well s and stop sniffing butts let's amp up this idea of hey if you got
a profile which they should I mean they they've worked on this case for four years if you've got a profile let's
release that to the public let's put that out there I I think it's well over do for that fact next question you
stated in last week's article the additional audio recording on Libby's cell phone would not be released but it
has been stated by the HLN interviewer that in fact an additional 2 minutes of recording was shared with the
family how can you justify this okay so what they're referencing here you stated
in last week's article they received so many questions that were sent into the Carol County comment for Sheriff lesen
that they actually had to run it backto back weeks because they had so many questions they gave them to the sheriff
and he said you know what I'll open this up to a second round of of questions this goes back to exactly what we were
talking about before we all know that there's additional audio we know that from what the family members have said
throughout this whole four years it's just it doesn't appear that any of that is a of any value to finding Bridge guy
somebody cleaned up that audio maybe it was the FBI maybe they had to have a local technician do it they probably
heard the extra audio I don't think there's any Monumental thing that we're going to learn from the extra audio
we're going to learn more from a profile being released than anything and I really I'm going to keep harping on this
but I think they should have released it because every profile I've seen from X FBI or or other individuals involved in
this case as far as like when they're being interviewed and they go well I think the individual is this or blah
blah blah if you put all that together there's a profile and we would have learned like I said so much more from
that profile than maybe even the sketch mhm and I think they believe that this individual is not a criminal has not
been in the system and that's why look everybody any like I said anytime there was a murder that took place or or there
was a registered sex offender or a rapist or whoever the whole True Crime World went oh that must be Bridge guy
mhm and so I think we've all been looking for a criminal the whole time and I don't think this individual is or
he's someone that has the ability to commit crimes and go undetected well I mean here's just a couple of things that
I gathered from these interviews crime was sexual is about power and control this individual was calm maybe so calm
that they're like a social path he's local the bridge was a trap he is normal he's not threatening he probably has a
good job probably makes more money than the average individual in Deli he's probably married has kids BTK killer
like mhm I mean that's that's a lot of stuff and or Golden State killer I mean you could the list goes on and on and on
of these these monsters that are able to live in different compartments live double lives right and go undetected and
may even be seen as an upstanding citizen in the community oh yeah that's a couple other things uh this individual
is somebody that nobody would believe is capable of a crime like this this individual is connected to a church
similar to Lake BTK well along those same lines Captain here we are again right in step with the the questions
that were provided and the answers that sheriff lesen gave to those questions it
says does a database exist that contains Carol County violent crime data if so how can the public access this this goes
to the idea that this would be some guy that is out committing crimes and we're aware that he's doing them that he's on
a list somewhere in a database and Sheriff Les's answer is obviously we have extensive records of each jail
booking which reflect each individual's particular arrest violation it can be publicly accessed
but the request must be specific to a person or their alleged arrest violation SL crime meaning you can't just get on
there and go I'm looking for somebody who did something Despicable out in the woods somewhere
and then you get a boom a list of people and you can go well Bridge guy might be
on this list somewhere no you need to be researching and looking up a specific person Andor their alleged arrest
violation and crime what sorts of information do investigators continue to look at for this case I love this answer
it's very vague but I think it's on point his answer is several aspects specifically associated with February 3r
13 2017 meaning that day is by far the most important day to these investigators
that know so much more than we do right than any other day as far as they're concerned that means the day that the
bodies were found the day before when they went missing is more important the day that soand so was arrested four
counties over for a sexual homicide no February 13th 2017 is more important than that day more important than any
day in any other suspect that came about via the public or the internet they know
that the one piece remember they're still looking for that one piece they say we will know what that one piece is
we'll be able to identify it as soon as it's presented to us or we we find it ourselves they know that the one piece
they're looking for is going to be some information that is based off of something that happened on February 13th
2017 yeah it could be something as small as putting a certain person in a certain
area at a certain time yeah and maybe what they're getting at with that is does this person have some kind of Alibi
that they don't believe is a good Alibi correct is this someone that was traveling on that day the thing that's
that's very interesting and one thing that we have to remind ourselves it's very easy to to get very confused and to
get torn apart by all this different stuff going on the minutia of this case of things that that have been presented
that probably have nothing to do with the solution to this investigation right you got to look at the very Bare Bones
of it and remind yourself of one simple fact okay we know that the Snapchat picture of the girls going across the
bridge was posted a little after 2 p.m. that day and then we have law enforcement on record stating that we
have strong reason to believe or almost at times talking about it like it's a fact that everything was over with said
and done at 3:30 p.m. so we know this dude Bridge guy was unaccounted for for that hour and a half 2:00 to 3:30 where
was he if you got somebody that you suspect and he wasn't at work at that time I don't care if he got off work
at45 I don't care if you saw him at 3:15 and he was clean as a whistle this guy was unaccounted for for that hour and a
half we know that to be fact and I think that's really what they're honing in on and in a roundabout
way maybe reminding the public of that as well yeah the colonel getting heated up next question do the investigators
follow tips from social media this is interesting one person a Sean Harmon posted that his father and son were
connected to the homicides and I gotta be fully honest here Captain right I don't know who Sean Harmon is but he's
he's listed in this article here yeah he's a guy that came forward and said hey my I believe my father and my son
had something to do with this and if you look at his father he looks like Bridge
guy number one the first sketch his son looks like Bridge guy number two the second sketch yeah and and his I believe
his son was a part of the military for a while so the weird thing to try to throw
your dad and your son under the bus at the same time and then you're named publicly as having done that yeah and so
what they want to know was this tip investigated fully and Sheriff lesby says the simple response is yes
information which is felt to be legitimate to the investigation is followed into this is not the arena for
speaking to a particular inquiry or tip but he's saying look if we find something on social media that we find
of interest to the case we'll investigate it if something's presented to us that came from social media that
we think is important to the investigation we follow up on it makes sense and then another followup question
to what we're really pounding on the desk for is there a profile of the killer or killers and his answer is it
has been discussed with experts so again I think we just need to Echo the idea of
its time to to Really strongly consider releasing that profile to the public now
Sheriff lesen be again I want to applaud him for taking up his valuable time to answer the questions of the community I
think it it shows his dedication to the investigation and shows his dedication to the the community that he serves and
to the community that his Department serves he does offer up a final comment that says it has been intriguing and
thought-provoking to be able to engage in these presented questions the past two weeks I realize not all agree with
my responses however I have received responses of the affirmative aspect too as Sheriff the utmost importance in my
opinion is the Integrity of the investigation the only way we will resolve to gain Justice for Abby and
Libby for their respective families and our caring Community is to remain dedicated to the preservation of said
Integrity I believe we wholeheartedly owe that to these two wonderful young ladies all right
Colonel or should I call you Billy Billy Goat what are your thoughts on this case four years later I'm losing
optimism and I've this in other cases as well and it doesn't take me much to get
back on board but I'm losing optimism I understand that tips have still come in I estimate 7,000 in the
last 365 days I question the quality of those tips we have 50,000 overall in the
investigation I think there's probably a lot of fluff in there that unfortunately
investigators have had to sift through I do not say that to try to deter anybody from reaching out to law
enforcement or providing a tip I want to be clear about that I'm I'm standing at
the top of the mountain and shouting it as loud as I can if you see something say something if you know something tell
law enforcement because I do believe 100% they are in fact just that one piece away I did like hearing the
sheriff say look that one piece what is it well our trained experts will know it
it's not something that will that will go be lost on us in the moment this is something that we will know right away I
also believe what I've said for the past year year and a half maybe even two years I had said at one point that I was
very optimistic believing that the case would have been solved by the end of that year and I I believe I said that in
2020 but I'm losing optimism in that way and a large part of it is going back to
something I've said all along I believe for whatever reason bridg guy had help that day or since then and this has been
a huge speed bump in the case it may have even sent detectives and investigators looking elsewhere I think
that someone is either willingly or unknowingly providing some type of false Alibi for bridge guy and his
whereabouts between I would say noon and 5:00 p.m. if you got a guy that you suspect or you think is capable of this
let's underline that capable of this because there's very few people capable of something like this if you don't know
where he was between noon and 5 and he's he's local or has reason to have been in
the deli area on February 13th right give that name to law enforcement that's how they're going to find their answer
what about what are your thoughts four years later I think you're exactly right I have somebody that I think is a
suspect I think their wife is their Alibi I think she's lied about The Alibi I think she has pieces of information
that prove possibly where they were to prove their alibi I think that's what's holding up law enforcement I think she's
lying about that I think it's easily provable that she is lying about it I believe that she has stated to people
that so glad we have an alibi so we don't become suspects I believe this is an individual that has a which is a
bizarre thing to say normal people don't say I'm glad that we have a timeline of
our whereabouts so we're not suspects and the fact of the matter is I know that she's lying I have information that
she's lying about your guys's whereabouts I think this individual makes good money nobody would
expect that he would do this he's connected to his church he has kids possibly grandkids I think he's older
than what they're claiming the suspect is in the drawing I think they said 17 to 40 I think he was older I think he
was late 40s but such a young face that he could look probably the late 30s and I think he's local he entered on foot
exit on foot he knows the area he knows all all the properties around there that's the direction he goes to enter
the park he uses that bridge when he enters the park and I think he was able to get to a place of safety without
being detected being covered in blood and to be able to get to a facility where he could get rid of all the
evidence all his clothes I think again he makes more money than the average person in Deli his house is worth
anywhere from five to six times more than the average house average property in Deli again I think this is an
individual that nobody around him thinks he's even capable of this but I think this is about it's a crime
of sexual nature power control he remained calm I think this individual is very smart he's very intelligent Beyond
college graduate school again leader of a company this is his second career already had a career this is his second
career I believe maybe there's somebody in his Circle that suspects him and if you do
call pick up the phone and just say look I I know this guy and and I I suspect him I also believe that this person
claimed at one point that they're going to leave the area due to it not being safe and maybe they've even lied about
selling property or leaving the area and anyone out there scratching their heads
right now going well how would this person be respected in the community how would this guy not be known how
how do we not know the people that know this man the best how do they not suspect him well keep in mind Dennis
Raider BTK volunteered at his church for years and he used the church's property
to carry out at least one of his murders nobody in the church knew this guy was capable of doing what he did
what we now know for fact that Dennis Raider did and he did it time and time again in this case in
Deli the one thing that I am most confident about and what can be what puts this
monster into a different category than someone that just goes out and commits a crime of passion or some dumb criminal
that does a crime on impulse mhm is I think a big reason why he seemed so calm on that day so relaxed and you almost
hear it in his tone is because he has fantasized about aspects of this crime for years he's thought about it for
years and he was acting on those fantasies when he went out there on February 13th I would not be surprised
if he was acting on those same fantasies at an earlier date while he sat there watch watching and waiting looking for
what he would determine to be the perfect victim and for whatever reason he acted on February 13th but the one
thing we we do know that he has not done is he has not since told somebody else I'm the one that killed those two girls
I'm the bridge guy if he has told someone else the person that has received that information from this guy
has such a little heart and such a little soul or maybe no soul at all that they've not reported that to anyone I
think this individual when they released the new drawing the new sketch that they
eased up a little bit and went they're further away from me than I think they are but look the Stampede is coming your
flood is coming and they're not going to let you on to Noah's Ark they're going to catch
you and you'll probably crumble like a baby and tell them anything and everything they want to know to try to
spare your own life what you deserve is death that's what you deserve and your flood is coming my
friend and I hope they don't even give you the option to take that off the table I hope they're holding so much
close to their chest and not telling the public because when they get you this is personal to them
now and your day is coming your flood is [Music] coming if you need more True Crime
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Delphi Murders /// 4 Years Later /// Part 2 /// 469

Part 2 of 2

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February 13 marked four years since two middle school students Liberty German and Abigail Williams went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail and did not return alive. It was announced that there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary. Many are looking for an update and some more information on this case. Well here it is. Join Nic & the Captain in the Garage as they take a look at the now four year old investigation. This week TCG explores some new information coming out of Carroll County, Indiana. This is a case that the Garage has followed from the start and will be there when it is finally over.

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Brief Summary

Sheriff Lesenby addresses public concerns about the Delphi murders investigation and the communication issues with law enforcement.

Key points

The Importance of Communication. Sheriff discusses the need for communication in investigations, especially with victim families.
The Local Suspect Theory. Investigators believe the suspect is local, familiar with the area.
Unsolved Murders in Carroll County. Four years later, the investigation remains unresolved, raising community concerns.
The Killer's State of Mind. Speculation arises about whether the killer is local and scared to act again.
The Role of the Bridge. The bridge is central to the investigation, possibly used as a trap.
The Importance of Profiles. Experts stress the need to release the killer's profile to the public.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to see you, thanks for listening!

Host welcomes listeners.

1:30WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

55/ 100Some tension

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