Debra Sundstrom ////// 315 | Forensic Files

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
with me this week is my very special guest, Aaron from the Generation Why podcast. Hey Nick, great to be on your
show. Thank you for joining us. I thought since you are our guest this week that it would be appropriate to ask
you if you have a beer that you would like to choose for the beer of the week this
week. Absolutely. My favorite beer, hands down. If someone said, "You'll get free beer for a year, but you can only
drink this beer." it would be Deschutes Obsidian Stout. How about a garage grade?
It would be five caps out of five easily. Well, Deschutes Brewery describes their Obsidian Stout like
this, "Deep, robust, and richly rewarding. This is beer to linger over. Obsidian has distinct notes of espresso,
chocolate, roasted malt, and black barley with just enough hot bite to cut the sweetness."
Now, for me, the reason I like it is because it's not too hoppy. It's very dark. I mean, you can't see through it.
And it's perfectly balanced between the chocolate and the malt and the espresso. So, it's the kind of
beer that I can linger over, as they say, or I can just drink it regular. I can just I can down a couple pretty
quick. So, it seems like a beer that fits pretty much any occasion. Thank you, Aaron. And this week's beer is
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next week's show, go to truecrimegarage.com and click on the donate button. And that's enough of the business. Everybody
gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Randy and Debra Sandstrom lived together
for about 20 years at their home on South River Road, about 2 miles out in the country beyond the Delaware County
Fairgrounds in Walton, New York. Walton is a small town, population of a little over 3,000 people.
Debra was born on January 4th, 1965. She and her siblings grew up in Walton, and she graduated from high school there
in 1984. Randy was from Roscoe. He was one of three children of farmers. Randy joined the army in 1981
after high school and served two years. Afterward, he operated a small engine repair shop. The Sandstroms did not have
children together, but before they got together back in 1989, Randy had a child with his girlfriend at the time. His
daughter's name is Mindy. Randy and his girlfriend, the child's mother, didn't stay
together. And unfortunately, Randy left when his daughter was just about 2 years
old, moving about 30 miles away. Now, Randy failed to maintain a relationship with
his daughter. He would send cards, money, and sometimes a gift for birthdays or Christmas, but he did not
see his daughter after he left. Mindy has talked about this since, saying that she thought maybe, at least
from what she heard, is that Randy's wife, Debra, was jealous and didn't want him to have a relationship with his
daughter because that would take away from their relationship. Yeah, Melin- she stated that
uh and now she's in her late 20s, but she said that, quote, "He wasn't around." Uh or I'm sorry, he was only around
until she was about two, and that seems to be when he met Debra and then moved to Walton.
And she says, "I didn't see him again after that." adding that she didn't really know him at all.
So, all of this takes place seemingly when Randy and Debra meet or fall in love or what have
you. We do already know that they went on to be married and have a long relationship.
Debra worked for years with a Delaware County Social Welfare Agency. Later, she began working as a grocery store
cashier. Randy worked for many years at the warehouse for Drogan's Home Furnishings.
And then for some time at Scott Machine Corporation, an engraving firm in Walton.
Now, the Sandstroms had an interesting hobby. Randy, being the son of farmers, why not, right? Uh they sometime in the
late '90s, they started growing pumpkins, and they wanted to learn how to grow the biggest pumpkins that maybe
anyone in the great state of New York has ever seen. Randy was the founding president of the
New York State Giant Pumpkin Growers Association. And in 1999, Randy and Debra set a goal
to break the state record for the largest pumpkin. I guess in 2008, they grew a pumpkin that weighed almost 1,500
lb. Yeah, there there are these pumpkins, and you can't just go buy seeds at a store, from what I
understand. You have to get the right seeds, and the type of pumpkins they're growing are
Dill's Atlantic Giant. They were trying to grow these giant pumpkins. Now, 2008,
1,500 lb, huge, right? Well, to give you some perspective, nowadays, they're 2,600 lb.
So, these pumpkins are no joke, and they start uh as a little potling, as I would
call it, in your kitchen, basically. And then they end up outside, and you have to grow them a certain way. It takes a
lot of care, a lot of patience, and of course, later, you need a crane, basically, to move these things.
Um they were even in a documentary from 2007 titled The Lords of the Gourd. Also in their garden, they they tended
to pumpkins, dozens of tomato plants, and other standard vegetables, as well as blueberries and grapes. They didn't hang
out at bars, they didn't go to church, they farmed, and they grew big, fat, giant pumpkins. Simple life, simple
story, right? Nothing out of the ordinary, except for the poor, sad decision Randy made to not be a real
father to a little girl. But we wouldn't be talking about this story on a show like The Garage or on a
show like Generation Why if it were just that simple, would we? So, in 2010, apparently, Randy
did his whole Houdini trick once again, apparently leaving Debra high and dry. Now, Debra told friends and neighbors
that Randy had run off. Randy had met someone else, and that new love interest got pregnant. Debra said
Randy took off to start a new life, and according to Debra, the Sandstroms had been hiding a secret for years. The
family secret is Randy was an abusive man, and Debra was forced to live in an abusive relationship for years.
After Randy was gone, Debra told friends and neighbors that they did not know the real Randy.
She told a story of a late-night fight when Randy came home very late one night, and because Debra was upset with
Randy for being out so late, she locked him out of the house. So, Randy tried to break into the house, and
this ultimately led to a physical altercation in which Randy hit Debra, and then Debra hit Randy. Yeah, this is
a story someone reported that they had heard. As best as I can tell, it seems like a
deviation from the couple that everyone knew. I mean, you already talked about how
they didn't go out to bars, they didn't go on road trips, they were gardeners. Gardening was their life. I mean, it
went beyond a hobby. It became their life. Yeah, Debra went on to say that her ticket out of this abusive
relationship was when Randy fell for another woman and then took off. With Randy gone,
Debra continued to work and live at the couple's home. She continued gardening and walking their dog. She would often
walk her dog with the next door neighbor. It became kind of routine for the two of
them to talk, and sometimes Debra to share stories about Randy. Now, about a year after Randy was gone, Debra got a
job as a cashier at the Big M Supermarket in Walton. The owner said that Debra was a hard
worker and was a customer favorite. She had been working at Big M Supermarket for about two years, I
believe, when in February of 2013, she was accused of stealing a pocketbook that a customer had left at the store.
Apparently, Deborah kept the pocketbook and when confronted about the missing pocketbook, she lied saying she didn't
know where it could be. But the store's video surveillance footage told a much different story. The
pocketbook was, in fact, in Deborah's possession. The store decided the best thing to do
was to press charges and Deborah was charged with larceny. Yeah, it's a it's a theft and it cost her her job.
And then she was charged. Five counts of larceny in the fourth degree. And basically, this is
because she took a pocketbook and this is verified on video. And the amount that she stole was in
excess of a thousand dollars. At least the value of the pocketbook. So, she's charged with this five counts, you said,
and for unknown reasons, Deborah Sunstrom decides to not appear in court. She failed to appear in court.
And what happens when you don't show up to court? Well, a bench warrant is issued.
They're going to go and deliver the warrant and make you go to court. So, the warrant was typed up and now it's
time to deliver said warrant. Law enforcers learned that Deborah was spending a lot of time at a some of some
have called it a vacation home or second home that was owned by the Bosco family.
Deborah was involved in a relationship with Dominic Bosco. So, that's where law enforcement is going to go once they
don't find Deborah at her home. They don't just send a couple of officers. They send
the Walton Police Chief, Brian Lauser, and Delaware County Sheriff Office Senior Investigator, Carl Vaughts, Jr.
Sounds like pretty pretty important law enforcement personnel showing up to serve this
warrant. They're sending the brass. So, this is at at about 2:00 p.m. on February 19th, 2013.
As you said, Aaron, we have the Walton Police Chief. We have a ranking investigator from the Sheriff's Office.
They're going to serve this warrant at 294 John Lockwood Road. Deborah Sunstrom answered the door when
they knocked. The officers informed her she was being arrested. Now, Deborah answered the door wearing a
nightshirt. She asked if the officers could possibly wait on the stoop just outside the front
door so that she could get dressed before they arrest her. Now, this is a small town, as we
mentioned. One of the officers knew Deborah and apparently had known her for years. So,
he agrees to allow her request. So, they're going to give her a moment to change out of her nightclothes. Now,
Deborah shuts the door and within a minute, things change drastically. I'll say, they hear a couple of gunshots,
which, of course, since the officers were there to serve this bench warrant uh for failure to show up in court on
these charges, now they're going to break in through the door and investigate. And that's
uh that's a pretty risky move. It it's just hard to imagine. They they knew this woman. She had a good reputation.
And they just never could have imagined that gunshots would have rang out from the house
in this situation. Yeah, one of the officers reported hearing two gunshots within approximately one minute of
Deborah closing the door. Police Chief Lauser is the one who went upstairs and discovered two bodies. One of Deborah
Sunstrom and the other was her beloved dog, an Australian Shepherd named Shadow.
Both have been shot to death with a weapon that was found very close by, a .30-30 rifle. The other officer
noticed that the house was on fire and yells to the chief to get out. Now, they managed to escape the fire,
but they watched helplessly as the house burned. Apparently, leaving only the wraparound
deck and a fireplace chimney near the front door. Firefighters saved a detached garage.
Now, Deborah must have acted very fast after the door closed. Later, police said Deborah set the house ablaze, then
she shot and killed her dog, Shadow, with one shot from that .30-30 rifle, and then with a second
shot, she shot and killed herself. Now, once the fire was out and the smoke cleared, investigators have to go into
the house and recover the woman's body, and this is when they get another surprise.
Yeah, they you know, they really tried to preserve this scene. They had firefighters from both Walton and Delhi
coming by uh to try and put this fire out. And they just weren't able to put it out in time. In fact, the call from
the officers went out soon after that 2:00 p.m. time that they reported to the house. So,
even with quick action, you can't always save a scene. Mhm. And uh with everything burned down like that, now
they have to see what they can recover. But it's it's also been said that she may have set the fire as soon as she
knew that they were there, uh even before she opened the door. Yeah, this is a situation where you really feel
like she she had to believe that they would come for her at some point. And it it
almost seems to me like too much has to be done in too little of amount of time that some of this had to to been put
into action before they even knocked on the door. And we know that neither of the gunshots took
place until after they had already spoke to her. So, you have to wonder how much
was already set into motion before she ends up taking her life. And when was the decision made by her that that was
going to be the result should they come for her? I think we'll be able to answer
that better after we cover more of the story. Of course, it it's somewhat speculation, but there may be some clues
as to why she did what she did. So, what else in the house did they find when they were in there looking through
the rubble trying to protect the scene? They spent more than a couple of days just going through this house because it
was mostly burnt down. Now, they're just sifting through everything, essentially.
But they end up finding the unidentified an unidentified man in what was the basement of the home, and he was
situated where you could say the stair the stairs had gone down from the upper floor.
So, they but they didn't know who this man was, and because Deborah, at least from all appearances, seemed to
have committed arson, shot her dog, and then shot herself, this is really out of character, at
least as far as anybody knew about her. So, now they're wondering, who's the man? Could it be Dominic Bosco?
You know, after all, it was his family's home, or it might also be that of Randy Sunstrom,
because heck, maybe she was lying that whole time. Yeah, and ultimately, it turns out to be
the body of Dominic Bosco. And it's believed that she, if she in fact was the one that killed
him, it's believed that he died one to three days before Deborah killed herself. It's
kind of a mystery, but on the other hand, they're just going by the last time anyone had heard from him. Mhm. And
they it so it's it involves some speculation. He did die, and then, of course, his body was
in a home that burnt down. So, it could be very difficult to get the answers that the investigators require. But
before they even identified, you know, whose body it was, they found something else interesting.
Because over the course of several days, they were searching this Bosco house, but they were also starting to search
Deborah's own home. And there was a a state police investigator who used a cadaver dog to search around
her home. And the dog alerted to a sealed 55-gallon drum outside of the house. And
when the investigator removed the lid, he found the moldering remains of a body. So, at that point, they had two
mysterious bodies. And I think all they knew at that point at that time was that
they were both men. That's it. Yeah, and I think this is pretty simple here, just
the search itself. You know, police are going to be tasked with trying to find Randy Sunstrom. Being that I mean,
technically, he and Deborah would still be legally married at this time. So, they're going to be looking for him.
I I don't know what kind of hunch that the police were working with, but it doesn't take
Albert Einstein to figure out, "Hey, we've she killed herself while in the process of us trying to serve a
warrant." She kills her dog, sets a house on fire. We find an unidentified body that turns out to be that of
Dominic Bosco, her her known to be boyfriend at the time. It's not really a leap here for them to
go out and get the proper search warrant for her home and then to bring a cadaver sniffing dog to the house with
them. And like you said, the dog hits almost immediately leading the handler to that 55-gallon
drum. Molder, which is what moldering comes from, is slowly decay or disintegrate, especially
because of neglect. Going off of their statement, his body may have just been folded up
and placed in that barrel. Basically, just left there. It doesn't seem like she has applied anything to try to speed
up the process or or diminish the the odor or anything like that. Uh so, he's found
in a 55-gallon barrel. This is located behind the couple's garage. Now, keep in mind, he's been missing for like over
1,000 days at this time and and then ultimately, the body was hiding in plain sight just 25 to 30 paces from the back
door of the Sunstroms' home. Yeah, a neighbor reported that he mowed the lawn right next to that drum
many, many times and he had no idea. But that See, that's the thing is no one expected anything like this to happen
with Deborah. And so, I think that's why they wanted to search her home because they were
thinking, "Why would she shoot her dog and herself over this bench warrant? Because Sure,
you have law enforcement visiting your home to arrest you, but it wasn't as if they were going to arrest her for a
murder. This was for the theft of a pocketbook for a wallet." So, it just didn't make sense. So,
that's when their inner sense says, "There's something else going on here." Yeah, and
Deborah Sunstrom is really the only suspect in her husband's death. And the thing here, too, is we have Deborah
who she she got away with murder for like 3 years. And this is basically just because no one reported Randy as
missing. His parents had passed away by this point. And he was not in contact with
his two siblings, both of whom lived lived out of state. His few close friends believed Deborah's
story about him leaving her. And one of his friends is on record saying, "Look, I just thought maybe he was
embarrassed about taking off and that he would eventually reach out to me at some
point, but he never did." And then it's only in hindsight that his friend is saying,
"Wow, that much time passed and he never reached out to me. I should have I should have thought that something was
wrong here." Yeah, should have, but I think we need to give more credit to the fact that
Deborah had won people over. And and not for any kind of devious reasons or anything. It's just They were
together for 20 years. And over that time, people got to know her and they really liked her. She was
very personable. And so, why wouldn't she be telling the truth? But, you know, I'll often say when
someone goes missing and the only other person that may have known what had happened is saying, "Oh,
yeah, they just ran off." But then that person never contacts anyone else anyone else, I find it really,
really questionable. But then again, Deborah was personable and people liked her. And we know he'd already left his
own daughter behind before. So, why not his wife? Yeah, I think that probably would have added a lot of validation to
any skeptics out there that she was that Deborah was in fact telling the truth that he had done this before.
And I would imagine the people closest to him, the ones that would be concerned of his whereabouts, would be aware of
this story. So, it's not like it's not like this isn't something that he would not be capable of
because he in fact did the very same thing just at a much younger age. Now, you said that she got
away with murder for 3 years. Dr. James Turgeon, the pathologist, conducted the autopsies on
then the two unidentified bodies. He identified them. We already talked about that, but
for Dominic Bosco, he said he couldn't figure out his manner or cause of death. So, both were
listed as undetermined. So, Dominic Bosco, he is listed as cause of death undetermined,
manner of death be it homicide, accident, natural causes undetermined. Undetermined.
And then that, I guess you could say when we get to Randy Sunstrom, the manner of death was homicide,
but the cause was undetermined. Now, to me, this is interesting because he's saying he believes that Randy was
as a result of a homicide. I don't know if that's because of the the drum that he was found in,
but we don't really have any real clues as to how he was killed. What what I've seen from several of the cases that
we've covered is is this exact situation where the concealment of the body is leading him to
to the determination of a homicide. Where Dominic Bosco, you could make an argument that where he was found at the
what would have been the foot of the stairs to the basement, could have possibly he could have
fallen, he could have heart attack uh and just fell there. It The placement of that body is
is such a manner where it could have just he could have just died where he fell. Where we know in Randy's
situation, it wo- the the probability of him being in that barrel when he died of natural
causes is so incredibly mathematically damn near impossible that that is where we're getting the
determination of of homicide as well. It'd be I would be curious to see what else was in the barrel with him or
if there was even more evidence to push the pathologist to that determination. Yes, and I know that uh before we
recorded, we actually had a discussion about would there be any follow-up? And I know that these pathologists are kind
of stretched thin to begin with. And if I guess for the sake of argument, if Deborah
was responsible for these deaths, then with her death, who are you going to prosecute? I mean,
why spend the money or the time? Why do the follow-up if you really can't take this case anywhere?
Think about it this way. No one called on behalf of Randy the whole time he was missing.
No one. Not one person called any law enforcement uh department to say, "Randy Sunstrom is missing
and I want to file a report about it." No one did that. So, obviously, there's probably not a lot of
uh voices ringing out saying, "Do something about this. Figure out how he died."
Now, as far as Dominic Bosco, his parents, they didn't really want to talk about Deborah, and I'm not sure
why, but it could be that they just didn't see this coming and I think maybe they're lost for words.
Well, his family, I believe they were out of they were out of towners, and that was
kind of their like second home or retreat type of home where he was he had been staying. Apparently, he was really
into the outdoors and and enjoyed staying in this I saw one description where they called
it a cabin, but um I don't know that I would call it a cabin. But that's where we have this
difficult situation. So, we we have what we see to be technically unsolved, at least one unsolved homicide
as far as the ruling goes. But are these in fact closed cases where they believe everything points to
Deborah as being the murderer of both Dominic and Randy. She's no longer with us, died by her own
hand. In that manner, are these cases no longer open and closed, but technically still unsolved.
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committed the murders, and I think the police know, at least in their own minds, that Deborah Sunstrom is the one
who killed both Dominic Bosco and Randy Sunstrom. But, I'm not sure it's that simple.
There might actually be reasons for why these murders were committed and why Deborah took her own life.
Well, let's get into that. And And what is your speculation as far as cause of death for Dominic and or Randy? I
honestly, you know, thinking about it, I couldn't come up with anything. Uh the only thing that I could say is we
might have to entertain many more possibilities given the fact that she was able to take her
pretty burly husband Randy and get him into a barrel, into this drum. Because that sounds like no easy feat.
He was kind of a big dude. I know people have said she was very strong, but that's that's a determined woman
right there to get this big guy into a drum. So, I think the sky's the limit. Now, obviously, they didn't find
anything obvious, but there could be many things here that could have been the cause of death
and I just can't really think other than to say I think we would have to include a lot of
possibilities. Well, we know it wasn't, or at least the pathologist does not believe that gun
that a gun was involved in either of their deaths because they found no bullets.
Just going off of playing the numbers, I feel like poison a poisoning is probably
a good consideration in maybe both of these cases. And if that if that is the case, then
we're talking about something very premeditated, especially if it was done twice. But,
also fast-acting. Because Randy's, you know, they always try to narrow down the time frame of when someone died.
Uh in Randy's case, as far as they can tell, he died about the time he disappeared.
And we know from uh Dominic's death that he appeared to have died one to three days prior. So,
that might also be a clue as to why he was killed. But, if it was a poison, it would have
to be fast-acting, I would think. Well, and because the house burnt down, the the pathologist is playing at a huge
disadvantage trying to figure out the cause and manner of death for Dominic. And really,
that that determination of him being dead one to three days is is, as you said, based off of when was
he last seen. I believe a lot of it to be from his work, what they could track through his work records
for that week or for that time period just shortly before his death. Yeah, the other interesting thing, and and we
didn't talk about this yet, but about close to two weeks before Dominic's death, or at least the time we
believe he died, she had informed his family that he lost his phone. So, if they
needed to get a hold of him, they should call her. But, he had a relative, I believe his
brother, after he heard about the house being on fire, he started calling both his brother and Deborah and couldn't get
a hold of either one, but then he wasn't sure because she had told him that he didn't have his phone
anymore. So, he could sort of understand why his brother didn't answer the phone,
but then Deborah wasn't answering hers, either. This is a very weird thing to me
because then you have to wonder if we are dealing with a poisoning or any form of premeditated murder
from Deborah killing Dominic. Was this planned before this phone call is made to her to
his relative explaining away the phone and why you would not be able to reach him by phone? Right, and that's what I
wondered. Was he still going to work? What was going on with him? Because if she was planning this weeks
out, which we could understand because that was about the time she had been served. She had been charged with these
offenses, but to me, I think she was already planning his death, if not already had him in an
incapacitated state or something. Because that's some real control there. Oh, yeah, don't call him because you
won't get a hold of him. His phone's gone. So, if she did kill both of them, why
what are the the the theories on on why? Because that's really what we're left with. I personally, I feel there
there are other answers. There are other questions that need to be answered. But, all all arrows seem to point to
Deborah in both of these cases. Now, somebody else could be involved. Maybe there are
other players here that we are unaware of, but what is the motivator? Why did she
do it? Why would she kill Randy? Why would she kill Dominic? And there's there's also
thought that it doesn't have to be for the same reason. And it seems very strange that this
stealing of a pocketbook cuz that seems to be what what's what started this domino effect.
That's the only thing that jumps off the page, but that just doesn't it doesn't ring true. It doesn't make sense. I
think it does in a way because the only thing that's weird about it is why did she take the pocketbook?
Was it just an opportunity where she didn't think she would be caught? Did she not know about the cameras?
But yes, this is what invited law enforcement into her life. We already accept that she likely killed
Randy. But no one followed up on that. So, she got away with that as you said. But why kill Dominic?
I think there is more of a complicated story here really. When they started asking her friends and
neighbors and family, "What were they like? What was this couple like?" And meaning Randy and Deborah. Well, a lot
of people said they were the perfect couple. They did everything together. They were
in love. They spent all their time together. They lived for gardening. But while that's true, other people started
saying, "Well, she told me that she had been abused by Randy." And then they would recount these stories like the one
you gave about Randy trying to break into the home and then being mad that she had locked him out and then him
hitting her. But in the end, a lot of people just said, "Well, that's what she told me."
They didn't have any first-hand accounts until they talked to their neighbor, which was Al Budin.
And hopefully I'm saying his name right, but Al Budin is the one that was mowing the lawn
right next to the drum for all that time. And he said that there were two separate incidents
where Deborah ran over to his home having been beaten by Randy and she was trying to
find refuge. She was trying to get away to be safe for a little while until things calmed down.
And he went on to say that there was even a report to the police about this after
one of those incidents. So, in his mind, the police should have known about this.
But see, who called the police? Because when the police were discussing this case,
they didn't think domestic violence was a part of this case at all. Right. They They thought it was
unrelated. Now, between you, me, and our great audience, I would say there's a real
possibility that domestic violence was involved. How well did anyone know Randy?
I mean, what would be her motive to kill him after 20 years where it seemed like
they were only getting closer? Now, we know he didn't run off and he didn't have a pregnant girlfriend.
We know that's not true. Mhm. But why did she murder him? There's a real possibility that she murdered him
because he was beating her. I mean, are we going to discount uh Al's story? I mean, unless he was in on it, I
I find his story pretty compelling. I do too. I do as well. I reading a couple different versions of
that same story, I I I wish that I was able to ask Al exactly what he saw and what he was told.
Because that's really his That's where his story is different than everybody else's.
If we are to go by that statement of she appeared to have been beaten when she arrived at his home asking for
help, that's much different than all these other stories where it's just it's just
Deborah relaying something that she says happened. Relaying actions of Randy's that she
says he did. So, yes, it's a very different story in that sense. I would love to
I would love to see if he could look me in the eye and say, "Yes, it's uh I that's what I saw."
Not that not that she was running from the house saying and telling him, "He's He's going to beat me."
The way that his statement comes off in that in the one article makes it sounds like the damage had already been done.
She had already been harmed by Randy before she went to Al for help. Yes, he used
the phrase beaten to hell. And so, we could have a situation where And that's what's so weird to me about,
you know, domestic violence violence isn't supposed to make sense. So, I don't know why I'm trying to make
sense out of it. But the the pictures that I saw of Deborah and Randy and the the lifestyle that they were were living
and the way that everybody spoke about them just makes the domestic violence so weird to me. It doesn't seem It's like
it doesn't fit. But again, if it was there, then maybe it was the quote-unquote family secret.
And that's how it works sometimes. I know I've had uh many people write in to Generation Why and say,
"No one knew about the abuse that was happening to me." And in some cases, they felt afraid to
say anything because they just knew that no one would believe them because the other person was so well-liked.
And in this case, it worked that way for both of them. If it was true that he was
beating his wife, then who would have believed it? And then he didn't really run away, but that's
what Deborah said and everyone bought it. It's all about perception, I guess, and
what you think you know. In the killing of Randy, do you believe that she acted alone?
It sounds like you have some suspicions of uh because of how the body was found.
Um once again, we're relying on Al. Al believes that she was more than capable of getting her husband into that
drum. Yeah, I think she she would outwork any man is the way he described her. Yeah, I don't know what it would take in
in But also, Randy is not described as being a small man. No, both of the men in her life uh
both Randy and Dominic or Nick as people knew him, they were both known to be pretty burly guys.
Uh and especially Dominic, he was described as a guy who could take care of himself.
And so, people said he must have been ambushed. They just didn't see how she would have
been able to harm him if he saw her coming. But I I think uh when it comes down to it
for me, um I I lean toward the domestic violence as being a real factor here. Um that's barring any other strange or
unexpected change in the relationship, of course, but to me, I could understand that being a part of this.
And then, why would she kill Dominic? Well, she decided to take that pocketbook for
some reason. I That's actually the biggest mystery to me. I'm not sure why she did that.
But I think she started to panic and she'd already murdered one man. And I think for her, she was hoping to
ride this out. So, she murdered her other man. And with the you know, the police chief and
his investigator coming to her home, well, to what was her boyfriend's home, I think she started to feel put into a
corner where she couldn't get out. And she was I guess more afraid of what would happen to her
than worried about what it would be like to take her own life. I think part of my my theory there rests
upon her killing her dog. Because apparently, she really liked Shadow. He was an Australian Shepherd,
which I don't know a lot about dogs, but from people I've talked with, they love this breed.
And I think it was a situation where she didn't want to leave her dog behind. I could see that. And actually,
the thing here that I I think always kind of threw me off on developing a good theory was the
situation of the house being burnt down. And but now I'm I'm almost wondering if if
she was in the process of doing that, whether the authorities were going to show up
anyway. And did she kill Dominic plan on burning the house to the ground? It Look, we know that it We know that it
already concealed his cause of death. So, if if she was planning to burn the house down to
to conceal his cause of death, who's to say she would have got charged with anything in Dominic's murder or
death? And where was she going to go? You know, I wonder I wonder if a lot of that stuff was already in motion, at
least planned out in her mind, and she happened to be it just happened to be that they knocked on the door before she
left that day. Before she lit the match and tossed it and and was able to drive off. Right, it's a
real question. Your theory makes total sense, but it's also the kind of theory that could throw
into question my theory. So, I don't like it. No, I'm just kidding. Um No, it's a great theory. Um
and it what But what it would do is you would say, "Maybe she had a different motive than
what I was thinking because if she was just trying to protect herself and she snapped and killed her husband because
she was tired of the abuse. And then she ended up killing her boyfriend because she made a mistake and
she was scared of what was going to happen." Well, that doesn't quite make as much
sense if what you say is possible and she was already planning to burn the house and then leave and then she could
say, "Oh, well, I don't know what happened." Right. Because as we know, the chances of
proving that she did anything wrong kind of get a little sketchy. So, you could have an arson investigator go in there
and prove it was arson, but maybe it's a 50/50 chance. But, if they go into the home and find a
dead man at the bottom of the stairs, well, at that point, she's looking at prison time.
Well, and I also like the thought that you put into about her shooting her dog, because I think that that is could be
some indicator of her motivation in some of this. And and I This is going down a
different road than the theory I already presented, but this was one that struck
me when looking into this case. Just the simple amount of Well, not the simple amount, the
overwhelming amount of of control on her behalf in this whole situ- Not only is Randy dead, but he's
concealed. Not only is Dominic dead, the house was burnt down. And she loved her dog. She could have
let the dog out the back door or let the dog run free instead of shooting the dog
and then shooting herself. And then, the amount of of control that you add to it with her
shooting herself. This is going to end the way I want it to or the way that in at least in a way that I can control the
outcome. And some people have speculated that Randy was not involved with his biological daughter
because maybe Deborah would not allow him to do so. And I wonder if we could have a
situation here where did Randy decide that he was going to leave Deborah for any reason? Maybe they were fighting.
Maybe Maybe it wasn't just one-sided abuse. Maybe there was abuse by both individuals. We even have the one story
that Deborah recounted saying that he hit me and I hit him back. Maybe Randy wanted to see his daughter
or maybe create some type of relationship there and Deborah wasn't going to have it or Deborah was not
going to put up with Randy leaving her. The Dominic thing, I think is more confusing to me about what the motive
is. And that's just simply because we don't know for certain what the motivation would have been to kill
Randy, but there's there's different things to look at and examine there. There's different thoughts and
speculation that you can apply to that murder. With Dominic situation, you're really only left with a couple of
things that make sense and that's either was this in some weird, super bizarre way
of covering up the whole pocketbook incident? That That just doesn't seem right. But,
then you could easily make the leap to going, well, could Dominic somehow have figured out
what happened to Randy? And that might be motivation enough for her to act. But, I keep going back to this whole
thing of if she did in fact kill both those men, she killed the dog, she set the house on fire, she took her own
life, there's just so much overwhelming an overwhelming amount of control on on her behalf. And that may be the only
truth we know of this case is we know from all of the evidence, the one thing that you can tie it all together with is
control. It's a case that that that opens itself up to more speculation than than information to provide. But, those
kinds of cases are interesting because sometimes, you know, it's like I was talking with someone today about zombie
movies. The best ones, the zombies are characters in the film, but they're not really the drive of the
film. There are these other storylines running that really grab your interest. And so, with cases like this, it's not
that someone was killed in a spectacular way. Heck, we don't even know how they were killed.
But, it's the motive. It's the why. And so, we're trying to figure out why did Deborah, who seeming seemingly had a
great life, had a great husband, why did she start to kill? And why did she ultimately decide to
kill herself? So, to me, it makes for very interesting conversation and for anyone listening, now they can start to
talk with their friends who listen and try to figure out what they think happened.
Well, and I think what adds a lot to this mystery, too, is it does not seem that
I don't want to paint the picture of Deborah and Randy being shut-ins. They were certainly outgoing people. I mean,
he was the founding president of that pumpkin society or whatever it was and they they participated in a lot of
county fairs and I imagine state fairs as well. So, they were certainly outgoing in in
in that aspect, but they don't seem to have a lot of close knit relationships with
with a lot of people. It seems like their circle of friends was was quite small.
And we see that that not only added to Randy's disappearance not being such a mystery or of concern,
but it also, I think, leaves a lot of blanks and a lot of gaps that we're kind of left wondering about
of what could have been actually going on in that relationship. Because you also have the thought of
it's a two-sided coin where you say, well, the allegations of abuse put forward by Deborah only come out after
Randy is no longer around to defend himself, but the flip side of that coin is if she was an abused woman, she wouldn't
have felt safe telling people about what was really going on. Well, she did tell her neighbor.
But, as far as we can tell, he was the one out of everyone that seemed to have gotten the closest to them
because he was right next door. They were always out gardening, he was out gardening.
They spent a lot of time outside together. Was Al the the gentleman that called himself their their pumpkin
mentor or was that a different friend? Cuz they had somebody that like taught him the the secrets of growing these
giant fat pump- pumpkins. No, it was uh Bill Beaubier, I think his name was. He was the one
that was their pumpkin mentor. So, he was the other one. So, their two closest friends
were Al Budine and Bill Beaubier. Well, and in one situation that we can talk about of somebody doing the right thing,
in in an ironic twist, Randy's daughter, Mindy Lackey, says law enforcement told her she was
the legal next of kin, so she had the responsibility to take care of her father, Randy's body. Now, initially,
Mindy said it really threw her for a loop. She didn't know what to do. She says, quote, "I could have said he
wasn't there for the 23 years of my life, so why should I be there for him?" But, adds, "That's just not who I am. I
have a bigger heart than that." So, she did the right thing. Mindy organized a proper send-off
for the stranger who was her father. This included a proper military burial at Sullivan County Veterans Cemetery.
And I like that because so often in life, we can just say, "Well, no one cared about me."
But, you know, nothing ever gets better. Nothing ever gets set right if someone doesn't sacrifice their own time or set
aside their own feelings. I mean, life's not fair. I My mom has always told me that. So, it's nice to
see when someone can say, "Yeah, my dad, he didn't care about me. He was never there for me.
But, I'm the only one left to try and handle his affairs, to help put him to rest." And she did that. So,
wow, I mean, all respect to Mindy. Yeah, they often say that the harder thing to
do and the right thing to do are the same. And that's this situation here. She didn't have to give up her time or
maybe even some of her own money or regardless, but her efforts. She didn't need to make that effort for a guy that
made little to no effort on her behalf for so many years, but like you said, it's
you do the right thing, break the cycle. She knows what it feels like more than anybody else to not be feel not to feel
wanted. And I think that she was wise enough and and had a big enough heart to say, "You know what? I'm going
to do what I think is right here and I'm going to take care of this man in death
even though he wasn't there for me." And you know, Dominic Bosco, he was laid to rest by
his family and they talked about him and about how they wanted him to re- be remembered rather
than this almost forgotten victim of Deborah's uh you know, in in their minds, he was a
hard worker, he was an honest guy, he was not afraid to tell the truth no matter what. They said he would stand up
to anything. He would face anything. And they said they were going to miss him. Yeah, and he's the only one out of the
three that is accused of nothing. And like you said, hard worker and he may have just simply crossed
paths with the wrong woman at the wrong stage of in her life. You know, I I I've been wondering if things were
really coming in on her. The walls were closing in. I wonder if she had said something.
Maybe they got into an argument. What if she said to him, "Yeah, keep talking. You'll end up like
Randy." Right. And then he said, "Oh, yeah? What happened to Randy?" And then she thought,
"Damn." Mhm. He was found at the bottom of the stairs. And like you said, it's difficult to figure out what happened to
him. But given everything that occurred and everything that we know, it's not a stretch to say
that the stairway had something to do with his death, whether he was poisoned or pushed or hit in the head or
something. Something happened to him that was probably foul play. And unfortunately, with all the key
players involved all now deceased, we may never know what really happened. There's also the possibility that there
things about this case that we haven't thought of. Well, this is one that's going to keep
me up tonight. Absolutely, because to me, domestic violence is something that is often behind closed doors. We
don't know about it. But the people who are suffering, they have to live with it. They have to
suffer through it. And if this was the case with Deborah, we have no idea how domestic violence
may have shaped her future. Yes, and real quick before we wrap up here tonight, Aaron, I do want to mention
so this episode of True Crime Garage will come out just before Independence Day.
And shortly after Independence Day, we will have the our better halves, if you if you will, or our equal halves. I
don't know what we should call them. But Justin and the Captain will be doing an episode on Generation Y on the
Generation Y podcast. Yeah, it's really funny when we had paired up before, we had talked about switching hosts
again. But then in the end, it turned out that all we did was we decided to keep the
same hosts together for the swap, but then release the episodes on the other podcast. So
Yeah. we're recording together again, but this time our recording will be on True Crime
Garage. And then the Captain and Justin, their episode will be on Generation Y. Well, and it's a really fun friendship
and relationship that the four of us have developed over the years. And it was great seeing you and Justin at Crime
Con. And it was great that somebody was brilliant enough to put our two tables in close proximity to one another
because we do have so many people we share a lot of listeners. And um you guys do a fantastic show.
And it's it's been been a lot of fun talking these cases over with you. Oh, absolutely. And it's always a pleasure
to talk with you. Well, thanks for coming and joining me in the garage tonight, Aaron. You have a
fantastic evening. Yeah, have a great evening, Nick. Thank you to Aaron from the Generation Y
podcast for joining me via satellite for this week's show. And make sure you check out the Generation Y podcast this
weekend because our good friend the Captain joins Justin for a fantastic conversation. Check that out. Also, make
sure you check out the Stitcher app. It's absolutely free. It has all of our old episodes on there. And if you want
more of Nick and the Captain, check out our other show Off the Record, available
only on Stitcher Premium. And this week's show was brought to us by SimpliSafe. There are over 2 million
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Source: https://www.podbean.com/eau/pb-jx949-b6964f

Debra Sundstrom ////// 315 Part 1 of 1 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com On a holiday week we have a very special show. Aaron from the Generation Why Podcast joins Nic via satellite to discuss the strange case of Debra Sundstrom. Warning, things are not what they seem in Walton, NY. Check out the Generation Why podcast this weekend to hear The Captain and Justin teaming up for another fantastic show! Beer of the Week Obsidian Stout by Deschutes Brewery Garage Grade - 5 out of 5 Bottle Caps (Aaron) A BIG thank you to our sponsors!!! www.LightStream.com/tcg - for a great rate on a consolidation loan www.SimpliSafe.com - get FREE shipping and a 60 day risk free trial on a great Security System www.BetterHelp.com/Garage - get 10% OFF your first month with code GARAGE

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Brief Summary

Deborah Sunstrom kills herself and her dog after police arrive to serve a warrant, revealing a history of abuse and mystery surrounding two deaths.

Key points

The Sandstroms' Life. Randy and Debra Sandstrom lived a seemingly simple life in Walton, New York.
Deborah's Arrest. Deborah Sunstrom was arrested for theft, leading to a shocking turn of events.
Mysterious Bodies Found. Investigators discover two bodies in the aftermath of a tragic incident.
The Mystery of Deborah Sunstrom. Deborah Sunstrom's truthfulness is questioned as her husband goes missing.
Undetermined Deaths. Two bodies are found, but the causes of death remain a mystery.
The Weight of Domestic Violence. Al Budin recounts Deborah's attempts to escape abuse, raising questions about her motives.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Simple life, simple story, right?

Reflecting on the Sandstroms' seemingly ordinary life.

7:18WatchJul 2, 2019

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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