Cameron Todd Willingham /// Part 1 /// 352 | Forensic Files

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true crime [Music] December 23rd 1991 in blue-collar Corsicana Texas this is just about 45
miles south of Dallas diane barbie was watching the prices right it was about 10:15 a.m. when her 11 year old daughter
Buffy ran in from outside and said mom the neighbor's house is on fire Diane ran out onto West 11th Street and
saw that the house just two houses down from hers was in flames the man who lived there Todd Willingham
was standing shirtless and barefoot on the porch his upper body covered in soot and his hair burned he was screaming my
babies are burning up he yelled at Diane to call 911 Diane's phone was shut off so she had to
run down the block to a neighbor's home to make the call at 10:24 am Todd grabbed a stick
smashed it through the front window of the burning house only to have the flames shoot out he tried another window
with the same result this was witnessed by Buffy Barbie Todd ran into the yard and kneeled in the
grass according to another neighbor he cried out my babies periodically while falling
silent at other times one photo from the scene that day shows Todd sitting on the bumper of a fire
truck his head bowed down over his knees his body language shows despondency when
Diane returned to the scene Todd was standing by a chain-link fence Diane could feel the heat from the
burning house and soon five windows not previously smashed by Todd blew outward then she said Todd ran to his Cadillac
parked by the house and pushed it down the driveway away from the flames firemen arrived and Todd shouted at them
that his children were inside in their bedroom in the front of the house where the flames were shooting from a fireman
radioed for more backup and said step on it the home we are talking about is a one-story wood structure a small home
fireman started to spray water on the front porch and into the windows of the burning house one firefighter equipped
with an air tank and mask was able to enter through the front door and proceeded down the hallway to the
kitchen a refrigerator blocked the back door of the house and the kitchen was empty of people meanwhile out front
Todd was becoming more and more hysterical a police chaplain was trying to calm Todd who started telling him
what had happened when a firefighter emerged from the house with a two-year-old in his arms he sank to his
knees the little girl's arm flopped lifeless the firefighter gave the little girl amber CPR meanwhile Todd rushed
toward the still burning house he had to be restrained by police chaplain father
Monahan to prevent him from entering the burning home restrained to the point that father
Monahan and three other Corsicana police officers had to wrestle with top and handcuffed him father Monahan got a
black eye in the process another firefighter Barban smith told investigators that when he arrived at
the scene he too had to restrain Todd from going into the home he told police that Todd was yelling that his babies
were in the house and was acting real hysterical he restrained Todd from going on to the porch he said based on what I
saw on how the fire was burning it would have been crazy for anyone to try and go
into the house Todd was taken to the hospital he had burns on his shoulder face neck
hands and his hair was singed he was kept overnight amber meanwhile was pronounced DOA at the hospital and one
year old twins Carmen and Cameron were declared dead at the scene by a justice of the peace
the children's mother Stacy was tracked down and informed of the tragic deaths of her children in the loss of her home
as she shopped for Christmas gifts the Salvation Army this is true crime garage this is the case of Cameron Todd
Willingham [Music] after he was released from an overnight at the hospital Todd was brought in for questioning he
spoke with fire investigators Douglas Fogg Manuel Vasquez and police officer Jimmy Hensley Todd's story was this
Stacy his wife left that morning to pay the water and electric bills now the family was behind on several accounts
this including their mortgage and when Stacy went to the Salvation Army to buy presents for the kids after paying these
bills the family had very little money they didn't even own a stove they just made do with a hot plate and
microwave and a deep fryer around 9:00 a.m. Todd says that he heard the twins crying in their bedroom so he went in he
got them out of the crib gave them each a bottle put them on the floor two year-old amber stayed asleep in her bed
in the same room Todd put a baby gate up as there was no door to the kids room Todd went back to bed and fell asleep
later he says he was awakened by Amber's cries of daddy daddy she's screaming the house when he wakes
up is filled with smoke and he could barely see since he slept in the nude he said he felt around for his pants and
put them on while yelling at amber telling her to get out of the house the house had no phone so he could not call
for help by this point he's crouching low and he's feeling his way around so he can make his way down the hallway
back to the kids room the hallway was filled with black smoke and the air wreaked of burning materials
he could hear popping noises that he thought were wires and electrical sockets blowing when he got to the kids
room he had to stand up remember he placed the baby gate in the doorway he stood up to climb over the baby gate and
at this point his hair caught on fire he put out the flames with his hands and then he got down on the ground and he
started crawling around on the floor inside this room this room is now engulfed in flames at
this time he's feeling around for the girls but unfortunately all he found was a doll he couldn't feel amber in her bed
either at this point Todd later related that the fire was all around including the
top of the walls and on the ceiling but not on the floor this is why he was able
to crawl and then walk despite being barefoot the heat became unbearable and burning debris started to
fall on him so he staggered out the front door this is right nearby where he is at this point this is when Diane
Barbie arrived to find him on the porch he told investigators that he tried to get back inside more than once including
when he broke the windows with a stick but the house was engulfed in flames and the heat was overwhelming investigators
asked Todd if he had any idea how the fire started he says he wasn't sure but that it seems
that it started in the kids room since that's where the flames seemed to be coming from when he was staggering down
the hallway he said that he and Stacy had three space heaters inside the home and that one was in the kids room Todd
said amber got some weapons in the past for playing with this space heater this might make sense - that the fire started
with something electrical since he says he heard snapping and popping noises one
fire investigator though testified that he found this space heater in the girls room in the off position Todd said he
could not think of anyone who would want to hurt his family he said he and Stacy
had their problems but neither of them could live without their children well most of these space heaters have some
kind of safety mechanism if they tip over that they'd shut off but because of the time period you wonder if they even
had a feature like that he said of amber his two-year-old daughter who cried out
daddy daddy to tell you the honest to god truth he says I wish she hadn't woke me up the
Willingham's 50-year old home was severely damaged by this fire photographs showed the charred
burned-out remains of the walls and the floors in the front of the house yeah I'll post pictures of the house and any
of the reports that we talked about and all the characters involved and all the people involved in this case
I'll post pictures of that on Instagram at true-crime garage the melted artificial tree and singed teddy bear
still soaked from the fire hoses is visible in pictures of the scene as are the blackened kids beds bed in baby crib
the back part of the house where the master bedroom and kitchen are suffered mostly smoke and water damage the couple
found themselves not only in shock and grief over the loss of their toddlers but bereft of their home at Christmas
time with no possessions clothing or even money for funerals but rather than pity and compassion from the community
for grieving parents in the wake of a tragic accident instead the tide began to turn the tide was turning against
Todd Willingham now we said in the trailer Cameron Todd Willingham but anybody that knows this case knows that
this man goes by simply tot so we will for the sake of making it easier on ourselves
he's just Todd moving forward as is typical with fires arson investigators sought to determine the cause of the
fire Todd of course gave permission for authorities to go through the charred home he said quote I know we might not
ever know all the answers but I'd like to know why my babies were taken from me and quote
the assistant fire chief Douglas fog he was a Vietnam vet with four Purple Hearts he had been a firefighter for 20
years and he was a certified arson inspector Foggs Oh investigator for this case with state
Deputy Fire Marshal Manuel Vasquez he's considered one of Texas's leading arson investigators Vasquez had a background
in army intelligence and had investigated more than 1,200 fires in his career Fogg and Vasquez went over
the Willingham's 975 square foot house systematically and painstakingly they said they went in with no preconceived
notions of what happened Vasquez said quote the fire tells a story I am just the interpreter after
examining the perimeter of the home the inspectors observed that they could open
the back door and squeeze into the kitchen behind a refrigerator that was in front of this door the appliance had
been in that spot supposedly for some time the kitchen had smoke and heat damage but it was not burned the fire
started elsewhere the men followed the hallway from the kitchen past a laundry room and then the master bedroom to the
front of the house where a living room was on the left and the kids bedroom was on the right the hallway ended at the
front door leading out to the front porch now they noticed that the laundry room had what they consider to be weird
posters on the wall a poster what looked like the grim reaper and then other dark
themed pictures of skulls amber was found under the covers in the bed in the master bedroom this room too was
determined not to be where the fire started but it was a different story in the girls bedroom where the twins bodies
were found on the floor fog and Vasquez thought back to Todd telling them that he had crawled around
in the girls room and only found a doll but two of his children had been right there as they continued to move through
the home following the evidence they began to formulate some opinions based on serve Asians here are the things that
figured most heavily into their report the basis of the walls in the hallway and front rooms were charred indicating
that the fire burned low down which ordinarily fires burn upward irregular char patterns on the floor were shaped
like puddles similar to what would form when flammable liquids poured onto the floor burn in puddle like formations the
fire burned through the flooring carpet and tile and burned so hot under the kids beds that the mattress coils were
ash white they noted that the fire appeared to have burned low to the ground and again normally fires burn up
high glass pieces from the broken windows displayed a spider web pattern referred to as crazed glass fire
textbooks at the time attributed this pattern formation to a fire burning extremely fast and hot as would occur
with a liquid accelerant and then the glass splinters as a result a flashover took place in the front bedroom this
again is the kid's bedroom the investigators perceived what they believe to be a burn trail from the room
shared by the girls into the hallway and to the front door at the front door they
found that the threshold was burned on the front porch brown stains permeated the concrete floor as what might happen
with the use of an accelerant V patterns on the walls are traditionally considered indicative of extreme smoke
and heat radiating upward from a burning object the fire inspectors looked for V
patterns to decide what was burning hottest and quickest to determine the point of origin fog and vasquez detected
three of these V patterns in the home one in the kids bedroom one in the hallway and one at the front door
three distinctive origin points showed that the fire according to this report was set so what it seems like they're
observing is that somebody put an accelerant down on the floor in three different spots correct and that the
fire was burning very hot from the bottom up meaning the floor up and I think because Todd is visibly no burns
on his feet that they start thinking that this is evidence that he possibly started the fire himself yeah so to put
it in simplest form I think first of all his story his account of his movements through the house before he exited the
home don't seem to match up with what the post fire evidence is showing these inspectors right and then on top of that
I mean really at the most the the most logical thing here is if you have more than one point of origin for a fire
somebody set that fire right you know an accidental fire is going to start in one
location and then burn throughout I'm sure somebody will send me a nice email that tells me that I'm wrong that there
was a situation at one point in the history of our world that a fire was an accident and it started in three
different points I would argue that and I'm sure investigators would argue that would be an extremely extremely
extremely rare occurrence if you can find three points of origin you've likely found an arson and as you pointed
out too if there was an accelerant used it makes sense that it would be poured on the floor causing the fire to burn
from the floor up rather than wherever it actually started if it were an accident catching the
walls up high the ceiling and then burning in that manner right correct now I just want to be very clear so you're
stating for the record on this episode that you are not a fire expert I'm not a fire expert my only knowledge
of fire inspections comes from this case and a few other cases that we've already
discussed okay art but are you still the crispy kernel I am okay the fire investigators sent samples of the
burned-out home to the lab the lab determined that one of these samples did contain evidence of mineral spirits
something that is found in charcoal lighter fluid yeah this sample that tested positive for accelerant came from
the threshold of the front door this is interesting too because we talked about that poor trail or the fire trail that
the inspectors noted in their report the report pointed to 20 indicators of arson
and concluded that the fire with multiple visible points of origin was intentionally set again what they're
stating is that somebody would pour accelerant in these areas which all led to the front door which would lead to
that threshold where they found the lighter fluid correct directly from the report they are stating that someone
poured an accelerant in the girls room under their beds on the floor into the hallway and then out the front door and
then that person exited ahead of the flames the burning hallway and doorway prevented anyone else from escaping out
the front door or anyone coming in to help and keep in mind in the kitchen they surmise that the refrigerator had
been deliberately moved to block this back door right one of the two exit points so the back exit point you can't
get out because of the refrigerator the front exit point you can't get out of because of the flames if this was set up
in this manner then it's I mean somebody intended for the children to die in this
fire right no survivors now that someone the investigators said was Cameron Todd
Willingham and this was a triple homicide [Music] if there is something interfering with
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joining us Cheers the you captain shares to you crispy Colonel the arson triple homicide
ruling wasn't the only thing that was working against Todd Willingham despite initial witness reports that
Todd had been hysterical and distraught crying out for his children yelling to Diane and to have somebody call 911
having to be restrained by firefighters and father Monahan more than once some of the witnesses began tempering their
statements and others came out with statements against Todd Diane Barbie told police that she had never seen Todd
try to enter the house she told PBS Frontline that Todd was a very mean man and she commented to police that Todd
seemed more concerned about moving his car than with his kids being inside the burning home right Todd told police that
he moved his car from the burning house so it wouldn't explode causing further damage
another neighbor said Todd did not appear to be excited or even concerned about the fact that his kids were
trapped in that he made no effort to go into the flames at times Todd was described as calm and defeated
squatting in the yard or sitting on the fire truck bumper or sitting on the curb
and father Monahan - he dialed back his early statements that Todd seemed hysterical
did he dial back his black eye well he began to imply that as he thought about things more after this event that he
says Todd seemed to be completely in control and perhaps he was putting on an act people started to whisper that Todd
wasn't injured or at least wasn't as injured as he should be let's get into who is Cameron Todd Willingham let's
take a look at this and but when we discuss his character one thing I want everybody to try to keep in mind it
might get a little difficult it's important to remember that just because Todd was not likable and in my
humble garage opinion a bad person that does not mean that he is guilty of murder right just because you're a
bonerface doesn't mean you're a murderer Cameron Todd Willingham was born in Ardmore Oklahoma on January 6 1968 his
mother had several children with different men she left when he was an infant and he ended up being raised by
his father gene and his stepmother Eugenia gene was an ex-marine who ran a very strict household Todd didn't always
abide by the rules but he was very close with his stepmother Todd was a good-looking kid with black hair and a
big strong frame but he didn't do well in school and he got in trouble and he dropped out of school this in the tenth
grade after dropping out of school he turns to petty crime and generally just being a hoodlum he was arrested a number
of times this for things like driving drunk public intoxication carrying a concealed weapon stealing bicycles
shoplifting attempted auto theft and burglary the old bike jacking Todd however was a charmer his probation
officer Polly Gooden said that he was one of her favorite kids and one juvenile judge who sentenced him to
probation said quote he just did stupid crap like steal bikes and quote it was just a old [ __ ] turd in quote well Todd
met Stacey Kai Kendall and Corsicana Texas when he was just 20 and she was a senior in high school of Corsicana was a
used to be oil town of 24,000 residents and really this area has fallen on hard times at the time of our story Stacey
was from a troubled home when she was just 4 years old her mother was strangled to death by her stepfather
Stacy and Todd they hit it off and got serious fast he moved to Corsicana from Oklahoma to be with her Stacy got
pregnant and gave birth to Amber and then again later giving birth to the twins right Todd Willingham was only 23
when he found himself saddled with a girlfriend and three kids under the age of three years old and he had one killer
mullet yeah that's right he had a mullet that won awards and different states well he and Stacy Stacy
was a little bit younger than him got married a few months before the fire by all accounts including Todd's own
admissions years later he treated her very badly not only did Todd cheat on Stacy but he drank way too much and he
would leave for periods of time again though I mean this might prove that you're a bad person or douche canoe or
whatever but that doesn't mean you're a murderer well he loved to play darts he was known to flirt with a lot of women
and again often drinking a lot well again to be fair I told you about the mullet so chances are they were flirting
with him well I tell you what I actually captain I think that you see this a lot
when boys in their early 20s just aren't ready to be men yet they they've signed
up willingly for grown men responsibilities but due to immaturity they ultimately end up pooping in their
big-boy pants and not being a real man at all real stinky pants yeah well Todd and Stacy's relationship was volatile to
say the least right when the fire occurred Todd was laid off from work and acting as a
stay-at-home dad while Stacy worked at her brothers bar to support the family on top of all of
this Todd was physically abusive to Stacy the police were called to their place more
than once they there were even rumors he tried to induce a miscarriage when she was pregnant with the twins by kicking
her in the stomach one neighbor guy just gets better and better well that that's
a rumor but we know the physical abuse was in fact a truth right but if he didn't stop the physical abuse why she
was pregnant then that seems like the rumor sounds true even if he wasn't kicking her in the stomach if he's
abusing her while she's pregnant that can cause a miscarriage one neighbor called the police saying that they could
hear Todd hitting Stacie and yelling at Stacie saying get up [ __ ] and I'll hit
you again Stacie said that Todd would never hurt their kids much less deliberately kill
them she said that he lived for his girls and he spoiled them rotten let's point out that the girl's autopsies
showed no evidence of any physical abuse right but this was inconsequential in the minds of many as corsican a resident
Vicki Prater put it to Frontline about the community turning against Todd she said quote Todd Willingham had not
treated his family in a respected manner so he didn't get the benefit of the doubt that some people would have
prosecutors weren't sure what Todd's motive would be to murder his children there were life insurance policies on
the children but they were purchased by Stacy's grandfather who he was the beneficiary of a grand total of $15,000
right but I think the one of the things that you have to look at when you're looking at motive here is we have a very
poor family living in a poor area and a poor house right before Christmas depression is you know is higher up
during these times suicide rates are higher up during these times they're paying bills that they're late on
they're shopping at the Goodwill store too for Christmas they have three mouths to feed he has no job
you could argue that by setting the fire and ending their lives that this is his
way out you know he he's like you said he signed up to put his big-boy pants on and all he's been doing is [ __ ] in
them so now it's going let me take these big boy pants off and this is how I can
do it yeah basically I mean we have a situation here where Todd's not going to benefit financially from the deaths of
these children except of course that he would no longer have any financial obligations right for these three
children as well the district attorney Pat Bachelor attributed the alleged murders to quote the children
interfering with his beer drinking and dart throwing and quote after Todd was released from the hospital he had burns
on his hands face and neck one shoulder and singed hair and eyebrows he and a friend arrived at the burned-out home in
a truck blasting loud music this - picked through the wreckage for salvageable items
Todd was observed to lament the loss of his beloved dartboard and some neighbors
said they could hear laughter and after a few days after the fire people in the community held a dark competition
fundraiser this to gather funds for the girls funerals Todd and Stacey attended this and as Vicki Prater the fundraiser
organizer put it Todd had too much fun for people's liking he asked the bar owner to put aside a new set of darts
for him Prater didn't want to have him spend the community's donations on these darts so she took money out of her
pocket giving it to him for the darts set right now personally I understand why they're trying to raise the money
and all that stuff but personally if it was me I couldn't even attend something like that
it would be very difficult but what we have is a situation here where there might be rumors and speculation amongst
the community there's been no charges brought forth right or forward yeah now the rumors as stated started to
swirl that Todd was heard saying that money will start to roll in because people pitied him this of course did not
sit well with any of the locals police investigators on the case began to make note of circus circumstantial evidence
against Todd in police interviews Todd came across more as a patting himself on the back type for what he tried to do to
save his children the lead investigator Jimmy Hensley said two frontline quote Todd didn't show any remorse through the
interview until I actually showed him the pictures of his children at that time he started crying you know I don't
think he was sad so much that he killed the kids as much as that it's coming to light that you know he's a suspect in it
this is awful tragedy but we don't know how somebody is gonna react first of all
we have rumors and reason to believe that this guy's character Todd's character it was like you said before of
that of a shit-stained so he's just going back to that original character again that does not mean that he is
responsible but once you kind of you know place his character with the evidence that this fire was started by
somebody this is what leads to his arrest right fire started by somebody who Todd admittedly says was in the home
before the fire started right so he is arrested and this was by a SWAT team on January 8th 1992 he was
held on 1 million dollars bond while a grand jury was convened to consider an indictment against him an
indictment for capital murder came down on February 13 1992 Todd couldn't afford
a defense attorney so a team was appointed to him this consisted of David Martin a
former state trooper and Robert Dunn a local defense attorney who handled all types of cases
Todd was adamant that he had not set the fire and he did not kill his children he
was also adamant about his innocence that when the prosecutor offered Todd a chance to plead guilty to avoid the
death penalty Todd refused to accept this deal his father and stepmother even visited him
and begged him to take this deal but Todd would not budge saying quote I ain't gonna plead to something I didn't
do especially killing my own kids and quote one at this point his own lawyers see the evidence and say hey look there
is a lot of evidence against you or at least pointing in your direction and I believe they advised him to take the
deal as well 100% and very likely they probably shared the evidence with his parents
asking them hey we can't talk sense into this guy right you go talk to him at the
very least as his representative because that's one thing we've talked about in other cases like when the guy that had -
that had the horrible responsibility of defending John Wayne Gacy in court yeah he said you know 30 years later he's he
says basically what you have to do what your responsibility is when you go into a situation like this and you believe
your client to be guilty and john wayne gacy of such horrible crimes Todd Willingham of the deaths of his three
children horrible crimes at the very least to provide your client with some form of service your job is to at least
make it so that the state does not execute your client well in this case reminds me a lot of like the Chris Watts
case the family went missing they couldn't find the family so all the sudden you have the husband acting
suspicious right but nobody really wants to blame the husband and in this case there's this awful
fire these kids died in the fire you know right before Christmas the the husband's acting a little strange and
you don't want to blame him now we're to the point where he's arrested and everybody is looking at the evidence and
looking at his character and going hey take this deal you know and at least you won't be executed yeah the the trial
State vs Willingham commenced on August 18 1992 and it lasted just three days surprisingly the prosecuting attorney
was assistant DA John Jackson the Honorable buck Douglas presided in Jackson's opening statement he told the
jury that Todd Willingham poured a combustible liquid on the floor of the kid's room and then poured more of that
same liquid in the hallway and out the front door he then stood by and did nothing
as the heat flames and smoke killed his three children in his own opening statement Todd's attorney David Martin
rebutted that statement saying quote the state's theory in the case is the most unexpected unprofitable scenario that we
can imagine end quote he argued that the state's case was entirely circumstantial
now in a surprise move the state called its first witness this was convicted felon his name Johnny Webb aged 22 I had
just sounds like a convicted felon old Johnny Webb well he was a career criminal and a crack addict who was in
the Navarro County Jail at the same time as Todd this is in January and February
of 92 Webb was in on robbery and forgery charges he suffered from psychiatric disorders and was on various medications
when asked on direct examination whether he had quote any trouble with mental impairment or anything like that he
responded not always Webb testified that he met Todd while in jail and one day while the two were
standing on either side of a glass partition that had a slot for you know like the meal tray so that can come
through they would stand there and where the slot is they could actually talk to
each other communicate through that spot because of the slot Todd broke down he says Todd broke down
on this one day crying and during this time that he's crying he confesses to Johnny that he in fact did kill his kids
the story Todd told Johnny Webb according to Webb's - so moany was this Todd came home and found one of the
girls severely injured perhaps even dead because of something that Stacy did to the child Todd decided that the way to
get out of this situation would be to set a house fire he took some lighter fluid and squirted it all around on the
walls and the floors in a pentagram pattern and then lit it but first he lit some newspaper and burned one of the
kids on their arms and forehead this to make it look like they had been playing with fire and that that set the fire he
says then he ran out of the house and refused to re-enter the home now according to Webb this whole spontaneous
confession thing went down in an area that was in full view of guards and other prisoners and right underneath
microphones connected to the intercom system that was monitored by prison staff and Webb had only met Todd less
than a month before Todd denied involvement in the fire to anyone and everyone including Webb yet all of a
sudden he decided to unburden himself to this stranger yeah I never trust these jailhouse snitches well it in this
situation anyway it defies belief to me I agree but often in these cases when somebody from prison
snitches on somebody else and they use him in a trial the prosecution was able to like gift them something so basically
pay them for their confession yeah that I mean it's a it's a favor for a favor essentially the problem on top of that
and this specific incident is that this confession should have been heard by somebody else or recorded on top of him
just telling this other jail mate right before Webb left the stand Jackson the prosecutor asked him Johnny have I ever
promised you anything in return for your testimony in this case to which Johnny answer's no sir you have not now let's
make sure that we remember Johnny Webb's testimony the next state's witness was Diane barbi the neighbor who called 911
she testified that she ran down the street saw the burning house and Todd on the porch and that he was screaming
then she stated that he started screaming whenever we came outside she said the house was not in flames but the
smoke was coming from down low she admitted that when she ran to find a neighbor to call 911
she was gone maybe six minutes she said Todd was hysterical hollering and all but he managed to tell her that amber
had woke him up and then jumped off the bed and he couldn't find her in the black smoke
she said that while Todd ran back and forth between the house and the yard a few times she couldn't get him to go
back in to save the girls another neighbor this is mr. long arrived and just then the house blew up the heat was
so intense Diane could feel it from where she stood in the Daniels yard this is the yard between hers and the
Willingham's right she could hear electricity popping she said she said she could not tell whether Todd was
injured but he had black soot all over his arms and back and his hair and eyelashes were
burned Todd pushed his car back from the house about eight feet down the driveway and
then sat down across the street on the curb the fire trucks arrived at 10:26 the next morning Diane testified a small
group gathered at the burn house including Todd a boombox was blasting music from someone's truck but they
turned it off when they saw her that night Todd and Stacy came by and Stacy was crying and they were discussing that
a neighbor was taking up a collection and Todd and Stacy had bought some clothes for amber this presumably to
bury her in Todd said to stacy in front of diane that he tried to go back into the burning house Diane's daughters both
testified that they did not see Todd try to go into the burning home that he did
not appear injured and that he appeared more concerned about his car John Bailey
the neighbor across the street testified that the day after the fire he saw Todd
and Stacy going through the debris he said quote it was not the attitude of people that just lost their children
should have had but that's a case in so many cases as people go wall they're just acting different than I would and
so therefore that means they're guilty in those people's eyes it's kind of strange that people do that constantly
he goes on to say that it was more of a laughing cut-up type of attitude jerry long another neighbor stated that during
the fire Todd didn't seem quote real excited he would holler about his kids and then stop and look himself over as
if to see whether he was injured long denied that Todd had cried at all but on cross-examination by David Martin he
admitted that in an earlier statement to police he had attested that Todd had been crying he also said that sparks and
popping sounds were coming from the utility pole where the wires met house and that Todd commented to him
that they had some trouble with the electricity one of the first responding firefighters testified that when he
arrived Todd approached him and told him that his babies were in the house he could
see that the front rooms of the house were ablaze including the floors and the porch he entered the home through the
front door and noted that the back door was blocked by a refrigerator the twins were on the floor in the front
bedroom burned beyond any possibility of survival on the stand that this firefighter referred to the Willingham
home as the crime scene and Martin moved for a mistrial but the judge denied his
motion he also denied Martin's motion to exclude the inflammatory photos of the two charred infants corpses introduced
into evidence by the prosecution the firefighter whose last name is Frank's continued to testify he said that at the
scene on the day of the fire Todd did not exhibit any symptoms of smoke inhalation
Frank's also said that when he was at the scene after the fire to collect evidence
Todd was also there and was looking through the house for his dart set and was quite upset about not being able to
find it right Ethel Baptist a nurse who was on duty at the hospital testified that Todd did a lot of crying and saying
that he should have died with his girls it should have been him instead of them she saw only small burns on Todd on his
hands and back and his hair and eyebrows and lashes were singed on cross Martin asked her if she knew that Todd had soot
in his nasal cavities and throat she said she was not aware of this but when pressed admitted that one would get soot
in these areas after breathing in smoke after carefully setting up the narrative
that Todd Willingham was self-centered calculated violent psycho who wanted his kids out of the way so he
could pursue various recreational activities prosecutor John Jackson called Douglas Fogg the fire
investigator to the stand Fogg testified that investigators could not find any accidental causes of the fire including
gas leaks and no electrical shorts he said the space heater was off note they checked this days after the fire so
technically anyone could have turned it to the off position correct the glass windows were examples of crazed glass
which can be caused by fire burning and accelerant the fire seemed to burn low to the floor rather than high up there
was a puddling effect on the floor in the hallway and in the kids room indicating a liquid was poured the floor
was burning underneath the metal threshold plate at the front door this indicating the presence of an accelerant
the wood under the aluminum threshold and a melted charcoal lighter fluid container tested positive for quote
mineral spirits of kerosene is accelerant the the kind that would be found in charcoal lighter fluid wood
fires don't burn hotter than 800 degrees and the degree of damage to the aluminum
threshold piece shows that this fire burned hotter requiring an accelerant and the burn v patterns and puddling
showed that the fire was started in three different locations accidental fires don't start in three different
locations Foggs testimony was backed up by Manuel Vasquez the state arson investigator he bragged on the stand
that he investigated 1,200 to 1,500 fires and quote most all of them had turned out to be arson and that he never
knew of a time when he was wrong he said he knew the fire was arson from his investigation of the scene but also
because Todd had told him a story of pure fabrication if Todd had really looked for his children in the burning
home his feet would have been burned and he did not appear to have any signs of smoke inhalation
when Vasquez spoke with him days after the fire over objections from the defense attorneys Vasquez was permitted
to answer a question from the prosecutor based on your investigation and our examination of the scene in your
conclusions can you tell what the arsonist intended to do by setting this fire his response yes his intent was to
kill the little girls the state presented the two pathologist who performed the autopsies they testified
that the girls died of carbon monoxide poisoning from smoke inhalation they also said that because of the charred
nature of the kids bodies it would be difficult to determine whether there were any surface injuries to the kids
that predated the fire but that they did not observe any internal injuries or broken bones an ER doctor testified that
Todd had first degree burns on his face and neck a small second-degree burn on his right
shoulder and a blister burn on his middle finger on his left hand he also had soot present in his nose and in the
back of his throat with a slight cough but his carbon monoxide level was only 3% this consistent with being a smoker
which Todd was and with all this damning evidence against Todd this is where the
prosecution will rest [Music] this show has been brought to you by better help whatever struggles you are
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Source: https://www.podbean.com/eau/pb-8kuz7-c82da6

Cameron Todd Willingham /// Part 1 /// 352 Part 1 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com Just days before Christmas a horrible house fire claimed the lives of three very innocent victims. Later fire inspectors determined that the fire was set. Someone was responsible for the fire and for the murder of three. Join us in the garage as we discuss one of the most controversial cases from Texas. Beer of the Week - Texas Red from Rahr & Sons Brewing Co. Garage Grade - 3 and a half bottle caps out of 5 Today show was brought to you by the following. Check them out and save with our codes! www.BetterHelp.com/GARAGE - Get 10% off your first month with discount code GARAGE www.Brooklinen.com - use code GARAGE and get 10% off and FREE shipping! www.LightStream.com/TCG - consolidate your high interest credit card balances to a lower rate and save with LightStream Subscribe to “The Jeffrey Epstein I knew” wherever you get your podcast Search for Unladylike now wherever you get your podcasts!

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Brief Summary

The episode examines the case of Todd Willingham, accused of murdering his children in a house fire, highlighting evidence and community reactions.

Key points

Introducing the Jeffrey Epstein Podcast. A new podcast series hosted by Vicki Ward delves into the life of Jeffrey Epstein.
The Tragic Fire in Corsicana. A devastating fire leads to the loss of three children, igniting a complex investigation.
The Investigation Begins. Fire investigators examine the scene and Todd Willingham's account of the fire.
Community's Distrust. The community's perception of Todd Willingham as a bad person affects the investigation.
Todd Willingham's Defiance. Despite overwhelming evidence, Todd refuses to plead guilty to the charges against him.
The Troubling Confession. A jailhouse snitch claims Todd confessed to killing his children, raising doubts about its validity.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I wish she hadn't woke me up.

Todd reflecting on his daughter's cries during the fire

13:48WatchNov 20, 2019

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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