Burke & Hare, Part 2 | Morbid | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this right here that you're listening to is morbid it sure is
[Music] yay it sure is it remains to be so whoa that was poetry I am poetry you are
poetry no you know you are you prose I'm Pros that's beautiful yeah I love the word prose I do too Pros was a sponsor
of ours one time it's been yeah it's been a sponsor yeah I like pros this isn't this is not an
advice I was gonna say the word prose has no meaning anymore but it's fun while it lasted Pros Pros guys it's only
Tuesday and we're losing our GD Minds yeah we have a week like that it's been quite quite a week
it's just you know that we're it's 2023 man yeah I'm like I was like oh it's gonna be such a great year because I'm
getting married that year that's probably the only good thing that will take place but you know what we're
having a positive attitude because we have positive candles and lots of statues yeah Mikey really like positive
vibe to this place up the joy candle is wild and over there yeah we have like a positive energy candle and she is lit
right now and she's also lit like she's like she's we lit her and then she got she lit herself like she is really going
off right now which makes me think that she's like hey [ __ ] she would stop talking so negatively I am positive
energy hear me roar I can feel it engulfing this Roman Flames yeah and I have some intention flowers sitting next
to me yeah I have a whole shelf that Mikey put together for me so it's positive vibes only okay positive Vibes
only even when there's tons of [ __ ] happening around us that is not great so I was gonna like we're here making an
acronym of everything you said but then you really just kept going and I lost the letters
but I was like PV oh oh great she's doing more pvo w t b did I say shitty or bad okay of course
he's a shitty h a u H that's what I'm trying to tell you know that's what everybody's motto should be
say it again yep there's your motto that's your affirmation for today but positive vibes
only here and you guys rule I was talking to a listener today you were yes I was because uh her name is Danny and
she's awesome I really like her is she a phantom she's a fan too there you go I don't know I'll ask but the reason that
I was chatting briefly with her was I think in one of the recent episodes we were talking about how
um oh we were talking about it with jvn we were talking about how we put butter on Pop-Tarts oh hell yeah and I was like
is that gross everybody but no she was like I do that too and then she was like also don't judge me but I put butter
with my peanut butter too and so do you and she said I put butter on Saltines and I was like
[ __ ] are we the same person because I was like wait a second see that's spooky that is because that is that [ __ ]
also that spooky is a great podcast go listen to Hey but that [ __ ] is spooky I
thought that's stuff that whenever I do it everyone around me is like that's really gross and like you should check
yourself before you wreck yourself and so yeah to hear somebody sit there and just out with it say like I also do
these two very Niche things do you think that putting butter on before peanut butter is Niche I feel like it is
because everyone I've ever mentioned it to is like that's really gross I must have gotten it you did because I think I
got it from Dad and then I probably passed it to you because I was like try this it's [ __ ] good because John is
horrified by it every time I do it he's like you are something else no everybody
should give it a shot where I do draw the line though is butter on salt have you tried it though no have you tried it
you haven't tried it I'm gonna have you try it and you're gonna go I probably will I'm pretty good I love a
good dipping because you're not like smearing butter on it it's just like a light little a dabble do ya on it and
you just take it just with the salt I don't know what it just like gives it a little little sweet little salty it's
just enough not too much I might have made this confession before about Saltines on this podcast but if I
haven't get ready for a [ __ ] wild one of those wild people um not anymore no um am I like no but when I was little
this is like a gross [ __ ] nasty thing that I did when I was little I didn't require supervision well I did require
I used to dip my Saltines into water and eat them and sometimes this is so gross
we used to live with this lady named Judy me and my mom and she was Judy was the best but like she ran a daycare so
there was a lot of us to keep track of so you know maybe I wasn't always getting the eyes on me I used to dip my
Saltines into the pool and eat Mikey's head Just Whipped over here I would like to tell you that I was like
seven how old were you no no I would like to I thought you were saying that I'd like to
say that I like confessed that I but I was actually 17. it was actually last week I'm just kidding I'm actually about
to do it now no but I I'm actually gonna go find the nearest pool in a pack of salt teams and have myself a good time
have myself a day put myself in Africa isn't that so foul like that's foul and it wasn't even a saltwater pool because
like yeah no that's one of those things that like I'm always loved to mine like have you tried it but you know what I'm
not trying to I feel like that's one of those things that I can say it's not not
great yeah I also wrote my name on the wall at Judy's house because I had recently seen Madeline do that in her
movie but fun fact you get in trouble for writing on Judy's walls in case you were thinking of writing on Judy's walls
you got in trouble you will get in trouble and gymnastics will get taken away from you oh I know
still take after school activities away never it's important yeah I don't know that's just me I'm not telling you how
to parent whatever so what do these [ __ ] do next so I think we should yeah so but
you know what shout out to Danny for being the same person that I am like what's up Soul Sister
teens in the pool because we could also be friends she's like girl she's like no the line
has been drawn she said I don't identify with you but yeah that was funny so that was a
nice like little like it's a nice moment to like connect first I gotta be like girl yeah uh but now we're gonna get
into some terrible [ __ ] we're gonna get into part two of Birkin hair um these [ __ ] suck I know and that's
the thing whenever you say like oh we're gonna talk about Burke and hair it sounds like a fun story it sounds
Whimsical it sounds like a fairy tale like it does sound like a fairy tale I don't know why I said it that way
it sounds so fast it does sound Whimsical I agree with you um but when we last left them they
murdered a grandma and her grandson separately right yep yeah yeah and all four seem to have involvement yeah and
then Dr Knox there was like Oh weird that you brought in an old lady and her grandson at the same time they don't
look as good so I'm gonna give you a little less money for it and it's like my guy
my dude like I'm I'm on the record right now yeah he knew oh he you know you're not in all these body body and not
questioning it they just rolled in there with a woman and her grandson and you're telling me that you didn't
question that these two people died side by side right and they had already been
sus as [ __ ] before yeah because of the last woman before there yeah they knew she was known in town they were the last
people seen with her yada yada do like so [ __ ] this yeah it's not great but you
know the last one that they had before we stopped part one was Effie who they believed her name was Effie right and in
their confessions they were like I think she went by Effie oh that's nice also I
think that's the cutest name I didn't have a chance to say it is very adorable yeah it's that's a Whimsical name oh
totally Effie I follow this girl sorry on Tick Tock that um she will categorize names and she does them into like
Whimsical names like old-fashioned names it's fun I'm gonna find her name later and tell you yeah I want to know what my
name would be categorized into well so she does like a baby name so I've actually never seen your name on there
oh she was like um like my name was a baby name at one point no way yeah it was yeah I never seen you on there
you're not Whimsical you're not old-fashioned at one point it was a baby name one day because I was a baby at one
point but you were a cute little baby I wasn't there to like witness it in person because like photographic of it
maybe I was in a different life one of your souls probably was probably I think that anyway but either way poor Effie
she was a hawker she was actually known around town she was known to Burke of course she was so she and and when I
last told you guys she had gone door to door kind of selling and I think she was
gonna sell him bits of leather for his cobbling work okay and he enticed her into a barn with alcohol in the promise
of rest once she had fallen asleep he said he laid a cloth over her and suffocated her as they did the others oh
then they just brought her to knox's dissection room and got 10 Shillings for the body wow yep so as the summer went
on the stress of maintaining this whole thing was beginning to wear a little bit
on Birkin hair not in the sense of them having remorse or guilt but just in the sense of stress of doing it yeah and
trying to maintain the whole thing and it was also you know it was wearing on their significant others as well so
Laird like we talked about had been at least like on like outside Lee involved in the
Murder She was definitely there yeah and participating her boarding house right yeah and she was participating in some
way luring people in you know help plying them with alcohol yeah Helen McDougall
like we said she had not actively involved herself in any of the killings up to this point except the grandson the
grandson she didn't actively involve herself in his killing she was only there to calm him down when he couldn't
find his grandma oh okay so if we're talking like specifically yeah was she involved in a killing we have no
evidence of that right now okay that is that you're about to tell me something that to me is accomplish it right there
like you were calming down this kid yeah when did you know what was happening to
his grandma or did you not I mean I feel like this is a small [ __ ] boarding house that's what I think but you know I
don't know but she so she hadn't actively involved herself in any of the killings like I said and she's with
Burke just to lay that out first yes so hair actually ended up looking at that as a liability because she hadn't
actively involved herself in any of the crimes but she was around and knew what was going on it seems like yeah which
it's one of those things where it's like if you're gonna be around you better make one of the stab wounds so that we
can all point to you and say you did it too yeah otherwise you can just go I didn't do anything but here's all the
information and you don't have to be implicated at all that's how he was looking at it exactly he was like the
fact that the three of us have been actively involved in these and she isn't but is around that's a problem yeah so
in fact at one point hair had gone so far as to suggest that Burke kills a woman
um in order to protect themselves the [ __ ] yeah I think you should um off your
wife because she hasn't murdered with us yet he even came up with a plan how to do it he wanted Burke to take her into
the country for a few weeks then right hair and inform him of mcdougall's death and of course in reality the murder
would have been committed in the back room of The Boarding House and with mcdougall's corpse being just
another one of the bodies that they gave to Dr Knox it's hates wild my wife died
here she is isn't that so wild so crazy that like I've been getting all these bodies for you and now my wife died so
when they and he was trying to have him set up an alibi yeah like he was trying to set this whole thing up he'd really
thought about this if I was Burke right which one is with McDougall yeah if I was Burke I'd be
worried that hair was gonna kill my lady yeah well that's I mean I guess fortunately for Helen McDougall
Burke may have been an opportunistic monster yeah like an actual piece of [ __ ] but I guess his one line was that
he wouldn't readily murder the woman that he claimed to love I suppose so they did not go forward with that
everyone's got a line yeah but I'm not gonna give him anything but I'm not giving him anything no at least he
didn't do that I guess yeah um so if air I think this kind of shows like the eagerness with which hair wanted to
dispatch Helen McDougall that's kind of evidence of the growing tension not only
between the whole group but between Burke and Hare specifically so then the next murder really didn't do anything to
relieve Burke's suspicions of hair like this made things worse so in early summer Burke estimated it estimated it
like late June which was around the anniversary anniversary of the battle of Bannockburn which I just thought was
interesting the name Panic burn I like that uh Burke and McDougall had left Edinburgh for a pre a brief period of
time time just to visit friends in Falkirk okay during this time hair and Laird were having a lot of financial
difficulties and had ended up pawning everything they owned that was of value oh everything yeah anything that was of
value they were pawning yet when Burke and McDougall returned a short time later suddenly hair and Laird appeared
to no longer have any financial troubles interesting so when Burke asked hair if
he'd been quote unquote doing any business you know what that means do we I love that he's like doing any business
like these two are [ __ ] business partners are you kidding me doing business when I wasn't here wow so he
asked him were you doing any business while I was away with Helen hair denied it said no however in discussion with Dr
Knox Burke learned that during their absence Hare had quote fell in with a drunk woman in the street in the
Westport and enticed her back to The Boarding House killed her and sold the body to Knox and kept the money for
himself and then lied about it wow which I'm like wow you guys are [ __ ] bag monsters and now you're even being
ship bag monsters to each other yeah I mean it was only a matter of time it was like you're not what you think you have
a friend yeah like you're like sociopath that sort of thing like neither one of you gives a [ __ ] about anybody right so
for some reason Burke and hair started getting pretty reckless as the summer was drawing to an end I'm not sure why
they just started getting very Reckless the heat it's the heat you know um one night the two spotted a policeman
by the name of Andrew Williamson and he was dragging a very obviously drunk woman to the Westport watch house so
Burke saw this and called out let that woman go go on to her lodgings and the Police Officer Williamson said he didn't
know where the woman lived that's why he was taking her to the watch house to keep her from spending the night on the
street yeah so he's like I'm a good person like I'm actually trying to do a good thing here but right cool so after
like a brief conversation Burke was actually able to convince the officer to release her to him
she was brought back to the boarding house and she was murdered and sold to Knox for ten shillings if you don't tell
me that this is how they got caught I am leaving the room according to Burke he quote had a good character with police
which is why he was able to convince that police officer to release the very obviously drunk woman to him that night
but this Brazen act clearly suggests a very misplaced confidence that don't worry in a few months at least will
result in their capture but I'm telling you right now this didn't do it I have to he had a police officer hand a
woman to him like who he murdered that night and brought back to Dr Knox and was paid for it that is because they did
not get caught and also the fact that it took months for them to get like if and
it's sad because again it's they are taking advantage of who they believe to be quote unquote less dead yeah and
they're just proving that stigma you know by like you'd literally take your victim from a police officer and the
police don't even realize that this woman is who she is and that she got killed exactly and that's so [ __ ] and
that this police officer doesn't care like just handed her over and that was it I don't need to know what happened to
her after that it's so sad it's so sad and it really is such a misplaced confidence though because he's out here
being like Oh yeah like I look at what I did right I convinced a police officer to give her to me that as as horrible as
the situation is that is going to be the thing that takes them down is them thinking that this is who they are now
there are able to have police officers just hand them victims they're Above the Law so that is going to be an issue for
them later but it was too little too late whenever you get whenever I feel like a murderer starts to get that kind
of confidence yep it goes it's like a tail space it's hubris yeah you can't say anything but she can say
tailspin yeah hell yeah uh and so in the late summer Burke and McDougall hell and
his wife moved to from Tanner's close the boarding house to a small cottage not far from The Boarding House okay
there they shared this they shared this little cottage with a couple called the brogans I like that name attitude it's
like very I don't know why it's like cozy uh yeah just I'm just here with the brogans I would call them the brogies
the brogies I would just call them the brogues with my bro geese I'm just here with my brogans so some have suggested
that the move was Burke's attempt to keep McDougall safe because of what you were saying after hair and Laird had
suggested that they um murder her to keep her quiet he might have felt like he had to put a little distance between
hair and his wife which I'm like you probably should stop murdering people with that guy just seriously I don't
know well also I bet it was that and then I bet what added on to it was the fact that he committed a murder without
him yeah but it was at this house that Burke and hair met their next victim no a
washer woman by the name of Mrs hostler so one afternoon the woman had just finished her washing for the day and
Burke and Hare convinced her to return the following day to have a few drinks with them they were very Charming they
were able to convince a lot of people to do this sounds like it and she did so the next day after she'd become drunk
they convinced her to lie down in an adjacent room where they killed her by Suffocation so this is what they did
they get their people drunk and then they do it and they're people who they know are desperate they know
our own hard times they know are going to say yes to a lot of drinks just to numb whatever is happening in their
lives it is and I feel like it's also so important to say like how long it actually takes to suffocate someone oh
yeah like they weren't this wasn't like a quote-unquote easy way to get away with it or like an easy way to do it
like these people are [ __ ] monsters you have to stand there for like what is it isn't it like seven minutes it's very
like for strangling it's it's definitely and for Suffocation too it's probably similar it's brutal yeah and it's
aggressive it's violent it's aggressive like nobody's laying there motionless they're laying there fighting for their
lives trying to breathe exactly it's awful so [ __ ] and like for that for you to stand over somebody for a matter
of minutes and do that like you are you gotta owned shut down like there's nothing nothing there it's just a cold
empty box in there it's so crazy well then they just loaded her body into a box they stored that box in the coal
house until later that afternoon and then they transported to Dr Knox and she got she um they got eight Shillings for
her body oh okay not a full 10. so like all over the place yeah he's just he's just making random assessments right of
price here so not I thought of that same thing make an assessment not long after
the murder of Hustler Burke and or excuse me not I don't know why I just said that all in one sentence don't you
hate when you go to read a sentence that you wrote and you're like how do I speak
how did I how do I read that out loud well sometimes when you type something it sounds different in your head than
the way you say it out loud what does it say or I forget a punctuation mark and then my brain just runs everything
together monster I like over punctuate everything see that's what happened here and then
my brain's like no comma just keep going who gives a [ __ ] about it but what I meant was not long after the murder of
hosler Burke and McDougall welcomed into their home and McDougall same last name yes it's a cousin of
Helen's [ __ ] um it was actually a cousin of Helen's previous husband so like Texas yeah
that's a cousin though Drew's cousins are my cousins I love them one afternoon while the brogans the other couple that
they were living with were out of the house Burke and Hare murdered Anna McDougall they murdered his wife's
cousin yep what and it was with hair doing most of the work of course Burke was not the one who did most of the work
so clearly hair is trying to like put some some kind of message out there yeah like he's getting closer to her
like oh God and it's like Burke is allowing it that made my stomach actually yeah because she's like I'm
killing your family members now my God he is they're both [ __ ] but like that's another level yeah
it's I'm I'm just I can't and because of this whole like oh um it's a relative thing Burke said that he did not like to
begin first on her because she was a relative oh totally so don't worry about that was the wife like hey what happened
to my [ __ ] cousin yeah she was like what's going on here but they loaded her body into a trunk and they intended to
take her body to Knox but before they had the chance the brogans came home and knowing that no one in the house
owned a trunk they um started asking several questions as to the origin of this trunk that was now sitting in their
house I'm going to admit something to you I thought they put her in the trunk of a car because I forgot that we were
like way back we were way back I was like nobody owned a train a steamer trunk exactly got you got you
when it became clear the couple was not going to stop asking these questions broken hair Hayward this [ __ ] trunk
come from and what's in it like they were literally like hey where did this trunk come from they're like don't worry
about it and then like they're also like don't open it they like walk in the other room and put their coats up and
they're like but about that trunk like do you have any information like no we don't and
then like okay cool can we open it like can we like open the trunk and maybe just see what's inside no we can't well
maybe there's like a name inside do you guys want dinner yeah we would love dinner do you want to like should we ask
the trunk if it wants to be part of dinner like what they just aren't working to let the trunk go I don't
blame them I'm not gonna let a random appearing trunk in my home go I'm not and Burke and hair eventually except for
the record sorry uh Burke and hair eventually sat down with the brogans excuse Mr Brogan and explained the
entire situation to him they said hey it's just like times are tough and we like to make extra money by murder and
what do you think and then they said hey do you want to be in on this and get some of the money
if you don't say anything and he was like okay and he meant it yep and he meant it he
said okay I thought you were gonna say he meant it and then he um motioned for the police he said I know you can't call
them back then he said yeah that's fine with me wow how does horseshit find horseshit that then finds some more
horseshit what's crazy too is that with each murder committed in this particular
period they're just growing increasingly Reckless first of all and they're also pulling apart from each other
drastically yeah they're doing things on their own they're not listening they're
killing each other's relatives at this point like shit's going dead now they're inviting other people into this whole
scheme like [ __ ] the more people you have in this scheme the more [ __ ] is going to fall it's not the merrier no it
is not the merrier they're also splitting that profit in way more pieces which is way less advantageous to them
with they're murdering people yeah and now you're splitting the profits like now they're splitting it four ways but
are they not because Laird's this one didn't take place in Laird's sporting home I think because she is part of it
she gets that one shilling just for her silence oh that's how he's able to hold all these people they are able to hold
all these people and that's why McDougall is such a liability to that because she's not getting anything for
it she's not getting anything for her silence and they're not just gonna pay her unless she has something to do with
it because you need her hand to have blood on it so you can go she did it too yup that way she's not going to be eager
to go to the authorities because then she has to admit that she's been part of it okay so they're not getting that from
her this is nutso so that brings us to the beginning of the end oh so for obvious reasons and with very few
exceptions Burke and Hare killed mainly elderly and incapacitated and transient like down on their luck women yeah that
seems to be there oh they they go they go away from it that well although they were almost always opportunists like
they were always just they weren't like following people and like trolling for days you know what I mean their
preferred victim type likely had something to do with the fact that women were just much easier to overpower in
their mind um and that but what's Wild is like at least one of them and probably more of
them there was evidence that they tried to fight back yeah resist and this became very evident in the in this whole
thing that like they were definitely doing this because they could overpower their victims yeah it became evident
that they thought this was the case and that it wasn't in October uh when they murdered James Wilson who was otherwise
known as Daft Jamie what is like daft mean again so I'll explain to you according to George
McGregor Wilson he was described as quote a lad who while deficient in intellect was kind at heart don't you
dare he was a universal favorite stop uh among the towns people he was now Jamie's had a very kind nature he was
not confrontational he was not an aggressive man it the people loved him he was like very beloved but he also was
kind of like a frequent Target of bullies [ __ ] that they would just like taunt him and [ __ ] and in his early 20s
by the time of this happening Jamie's father had died many years earlier and her and his mother was a hawker who was
often traveling selling Goods so he spent a lot of his time just wandering the streets in Edinburgh if Jamie
doesn't live I'm leaving so as a result of this he became a very familiar figure to people around town
yeah especially to the people who would just out of the kindness of their heart give him food and gifts because he was
just a nice kid oh and he's in his 20s at this point but I say kid but that's a kid that's kid yeah um and they kind of
like looked after him in a way because like they just knew he was like you know he needed it see there is some kind of
community here there it is I was looking for it there is now Jamie Wilson was definitely not only the
antithesis of a typical Birkin hair victim because he was not a drinker he was not a woman right he was not he was
pretty strong he's not an older person he's not older and he's well known to everybody in town very well known like
this is like front page of Time Magazine kind of well known like even more so than the very more so yeah so this is
just like totally the antithesis of their typical victim he was also the stupidest choice for a victim
because like I said he didn't drink you're not going to ply him away with alcohol yeah so what the [ __ ] is your
move and then you're gonna have to overpower him while he's sober he can fight you he's he's not gonna be easy
Lord easily lured away and when he is suddenly gone everyone's gonna notice immediately yeah he's like everyone's
kid you're not gonna be able to bring him to Dr Knox and have it be like oh yeah it's just weird daf Jamie just
dropped in it's like No No One's Gonna believe that now it was actually Margaret Laird who'd chosen Jaime as a
victim because she discovered him alone in looking for his mother at a grass Market one day in early October [ __ ] you
Margaret [ __ ] that's what I do now according to Burke Jamie agreed to accompany her back to the boarding house
but he was very anxious the entire walk back to the house and kept asking questions oh my God you're ruining me
when they reached the house Laird left Jamie with hair while she went to find Burke whom she eventually found at a
local shop and the two of them went back to Tanner's close the boarding house back at the house Laird left the three
men alone which they offered Jamie some drinks and after after a little while and Jamie did
drink with them yeah he became a little tired and laid down at the bed and that's the point where hair laid next to
him a few minutes passed before hair threw himself on top of Jamie and attempted to cover his mouth and nose
the same thing Jamie however was neither drunk or incapacitated at this point so
he started struggling and resisting and the two men fell from the bed and continued to struggle on the floor
eventually though Burke was able to get a hold of Jaime's feet and legs which he
held tight as hair suffocated Jamie no so he like they almost lost this one and this was the stupidest thank goodness
they were so stupid but this is so tragic I'm like so they're all tragic but this one's just like yeah are you
[ __ ] kidding me like and like Margaret go [ __ ] yourself he's looking for his mom and that's when you
[ __ ] and he's clearly like yeah like intellectually a little immature yeah and it's like he's looking for his
mother and he's like in his early 20s like come on that's that is [ __ ] disgusting it's vile it's like I'm so
angry right now it's well and oh I had hope I know I feel I felt bad building you up like that but I was like I don't
know how you tell the story now in nearly every every case Birkin hair we're very careful to get rid of their
victims clothings and whatever possession the victim had on them at the time I found them naked essentially they
just bring the body to the doctor Knox um and in this case though their victim had a lot of belongings most of the time
their victim didn't have a lot of things on them because they didn't have a lot of things in the world was he walking
around with like things he had a lot of belongings and he had some things of value because he was he was you know
which they ended up just splitting between them they just stole all the things and eventually they gave his
clothing to Burke's brother who passed them on to his younger children and he knew yep
[ __ ] this yep so and this is the thing so his brother didn't know but like they
they knew that he was gonna be they knew that Constantine was going to give these
clothing this these clothes to his children yeah and they still allowed it to happen because they have actually no
souls yeah because of Constantine Burke and the children didn't recognize the clothing so they're just like okay they
did eventually end up uh trading them for like other items in town but still so putting Jamie's very recognizable
clothing and belongings out in the public because they were selling these Goods now too right that was a really
bad idea because it's not like you just like sold them to like some random person you literally gave them to people
in town that oh yeah are connected to you exactly and then you sold the belongings he had to people in town who
are like oh wait I know what this is and oh I got that from Burke oh I got that from hair or exactly so the more
significant problem was that the boy would almost certainly be recognized by Dr Knox right that was the biggest
problem like when you bring this kid in they're gonna know exactly who he is so indeed when it was brought to him he
wasn't home but when they arrived with the body his assistant didn't really look very quickly okay so he just was
like okay and he was like you know what can you return the next day and you know
Knox will be here and he'll pay you so the next day when they did did inspect the body several of knox's students were
like that's Jamie oh and they were like what the [ __ ] but Knox was like you know
what ready the body for a dissection so he 100 recognized this body just like but he was like just ready for it for
dissection what the actual [ __ ] and then he assured his students this ever so fresh male
subject could not possibly be anyone they knew what yeah like you really need to
dissect that bad you've had how many bodies have we had up to this point 15 yeah like I I think you've learned some
some stuff I think 14 at this point take a second yeah the [ __ ] and later Stu these students were interviewed by
police later obviously because they were very much like unwillingly involved in this exactly they all told investigators
they were pretty certain this was Jamie but they didn't want to swear on it because they were Knox had told them
that it wasn't well and then they're obvious they're being intimidated by somebody who has power so they're like
and can determine their future exactly so the final murder occurred on October 31st oh yeah did they do that like on
purpose I don't know this is when Burke met Mary Dougherty and it was in a reimer's grocery store that morning on
October 31st so like the grandmother the pair had brutally murdered earlier that
summer Dougherty had come from out of town in search of her son oh it was virtually unknown to anyone in Edinburgh
oh no so Burke struck up a conversation with this older woman telling her that he'd also come to Edinburgh he was from
Ireland and you know wow crazy my mom's maiden name is Dougherty so maybe we're related probably not so and what she
likely took as a friendly gesture Burke invited her back to the home for breakfast with he and his wife and she
was like great absolutely excited to make a friend exactly maybe they can help me find my son that kind of thing
so once they were in the house Helen McDougall tended to this new guest while Burke went off in search of hair okay
when he finally found hair they went back to Burke's house where they found Helen and the guests cleaning up after
breakfast well it would have been pretty easy for them to overpower and murder Mrs Dougherty because she was very frail
sure the real issue that they were facing was getting rid of the couple who had been staying with Burke and
McDougall for over a week they were there was another couple in the house and they must have seen her come in and
eat exactly so they were like [ __ ] so it's trying to think quickly here and Burke told this couple that he'd run
into an old family friend and he wondered if it would be you know terribly inconvenient for them to maybe
find another place to stay for a night or two just so they could have this Mrs Dougherty this family friend he even
went as far as suggesting they could stay with hair and Laird for a few days and the couple said sure uh-huh so that
evening things went about the usual way they had so the couples had dinner with Mary Dougherty Birkin hair and lairdon
they shared like multiple meals with this woman like really got to know her wow probably heard all about her life
all about her missing son they had dinner with her at Burke and mcdougall's home afterwards they sang They danced
they drank had a great time they literally like had a little party it's I just can't even
but they whatever the case was whether this was a planned roost that way or if they just really got into it that night
and were like enjoyed her company and still decided to go through it around 10 or 11 that night they um it became a
little loud and disruptive though because they were getting that's in like happy loud and disruptive not fighting
like yeah they were like dancing drinking singing and it was drawing attention of Neighbors
so people wanted to know what was going on so a woman from the house next door went to look through the window and she
saw what she later told police was Helen McDougall quote holding a bottle to the
mouth of Dougherty pouring the whiskey down her throat I always knew that I saw Helen McDougall for exactly who the [ __ ]
she was later that evening the disruption continued when Burke and Hare got into an actual argument a violent
one and they only stopped when Mary Dougherty fell from her stool and crashed onto the floor oh no man and she
couldn't get up so Laird and McDougall the two women used the opportunity to get out of the house which is when Burke
and Hare use the same method that they always use to suffocate Mrs Dougherty but they did do something a little
different with her which I don't know if this was them trying something different that they
were going to employ from here on out or if this was just I don't know okay but whichever man was doing the actual
suffocating at some point they had used their hand to strangle Mrs Dougherty around the throat and this left deep
bruises on her neck now she was dead they stripped her of her belongings and Burke sent for knox's
assistant and they explained that they just had another body to sell wow crazy it's I can't now with this also so they
make the call they're like hey you need to pick up this body tomorrow and then they just went about the party drinking
dancing until the early hours of the morning the dead body and that they just murdered brutally had just exactly yeah
wow so the following day November 1st Burke went to the boarding house to check on the um on The Lodgers that had
been sent to the house right and invite them back home for breakfast saying that you know their family friend
that old woman that they had met yesterday she had grown very impudent perhaps having taken too much liquor and
they found it next necessary to put her out that's how they put it put her out yeah so one of these Lodgers Mrs Gray
thought that Burke was behaving a little strangely and she said he was very nervously watching her and calling after
her when she began cleaning around a pile of straw near the corner of the room Burke kept up his weird like anxious
behavior for most of the morning and when several several of the occupants of the house needed to go out that
afternoon Burke actually instructed Mr Mr Brogan who knows about all this stuff now to sit in a chair by the bed in the
corner and not move until he returned okay Blair Witch what the [ __ ] so he did
he sat in the chair he didn't ask questions at first and then when Burke left the house he waited until he was
out of sight because remember this guy just joined this whole thing he did he just wanted money yeah he wasn't he's
not gonna save your ass so Berk's not a bad person so and Elsa he doesn't give a
[ __ ] like this is not a good guy this is somebody who just doesn't give a [ __ ]
exactly so when he tells him you got to sit by this corner of the bed near the straw in the corner he's like sure sure
so he sits there Burke leaves once he's out of his sight Brogan just leaves the house like he didn't he was like I'm not
doing that yeah so he left the house and then Mrs Gray the lodger who thought that he was acting very strange she's
now alone in the house and she takes this opportunity to investigate yes whatever it was by the bed that Burke
was definitely trying to hide and was definitely trying to have like guarded by Mr Brogan so she starts poking around
the straw Pile in the bed next to the bed excuse me and she found the nude body of Mary Dougherty and imagine all
around her mouth and nose why did she have blood around her mouth because she had been violently strangled
and probably I'm assuming should they might have like hit her or something oh my God something bad happened there and
she also had fallen from her stool right I don't know if she had any like traumatic fall there
so she literally finds this naked old woman who was clearly murdered in a pile of straw in the corner of their bedroom
wow so she knows why she was sent out the night before so she immediately tells her husband she's like we gotta
get the [ __ ] out of here and the two of them start Gathering up all their belongings and they're like we're
getting the [ __ ] out of here but then so Mrs Gray is packing and Mr Gray started
carrying things downstairs and as this is happening he ran into Helen McDougall I knew one of those [ __ ] was lurking
and when he ran into Helen McDougall he demanded that she explained what the [ __ ] was going on like he was like you
tell me why the [ __ ] there's a body in that bedroom yeah like you tell me and at first she tried to just like dismiss
the question yeah because she's a little butt head but she kept but he kept pushing he was like no you can't you
literally can't dismiss a body in your bedroom like you need to explain the naked old woman's body in your bedroom
tell me what that's about the [ __ ] and so she finally broke down and said I suppose you know very well what it is
uh I don't though and then she begged Mr Gray not to say anything and then offered him several Shillings in
exchange for silence and then he then Helen told Mr Gray that Dougherty had died that night from an
overdose of drink yeah right [ __ ] why is her mouth all bloody but she he did not believe her of course he was like No
And then she decided to switch her tactics you remember innocent McDougall over here remember everybody I don't
remember because he always had her number poor innocent Helen she had nothing to do with this [ __ ] Helen and
she decided to change her tactics when Mr Gray wasn't gonna believe the she overdosed on drinks so we stripped her
naked and tied her in a pile of straw yeah so she was like okay and she started convincing trying to convince
him to join in on the scheme he's like yeah I have a conscience though that's the only problem Helen's also an actual
piece of [ __ ] all four of these [ __ ] are pieces of she knew it I knew she had
there was too much going on for her not to know about and the fact that she went
along with it and didn't get paid is like wild yeah it true that has even more yeah truly like I'm not saying like
well sure they were getting paid so that's why they did it but no you weren't even in on this yeah you weren't
even like what the hell was going on in here you were still cool with it yep and
so she couldn't convince anything to she couldn't convince them to join the scheme she wasn't getting a promise of
Silence from them so she followed them into town oh [ __ ] and they ran into Laird in town oh I'm so nervous somehow
the Grays the Grays agreed to join Laird and McDougall at a nearby public house for like a drink and the women continued
to try to convince them to stay quiet they bought them rounds of drinks they used every argument they could to try to
convince them that this was something that was fine ethically y'all don't drink a drink that they buy you what's
good is they were very unpersuasive the Grays got a bunch of free drinks out of the deal there you go and they left the
bar that afternoon and went straight to the police love that I love that they're
like you know what yeah first yeah uh but when they went to the police they were made to wait several
hours for someone to even listen to their story oh good yeah that checks so when Mr Gray was finally able to tell
his stories to a police Sergeant the officer said that gray was simply a disgruntled tenant looking to cause
problems for his landlords I'd be like do you want to like maybe go talk to anyone about this though so that's what
he was like do you wanna um do you want to come back to the house and like check and see and maybe come
see this corpse in the corner of her room do you want to do that so they were like yeah totally so they he went with
Mr Gray to the home of Burke and McDougall and Burke confirmed the Sergeant's Theory saying that the Grays
were former tenants and that he'd had to turn them out for bad conduct oh please
so Burke was like yeah you're right like they're just they just suck they're just
shitty tenants but then the officer did a little search of the home and there he
found spatters of Blood on the bed sheets yup and the floor and like and this was all where she had
been killed before being brought to Knox yeah and it all matched up with what gray had told the police right it was
the same room it was this the spatters made sense for what had happened so when asked Burke and McDougall gave very
inconsistent stories about who the woman was when she left and this alone was enough for the police to be like you two
need to come in and we're going to question yesterday because they were like you can't agree who she was or when
she even left she's in your house like she's literally in your [ __ ] house so Burke and McDougall were taken down to
the police station for questioning the next day officers went back to Burke's home to do a more thorough
search and they found more blood stains and they also found Mary Dougherty's blood-stained clothing
meanwhile additional officers they also brought a police surgeon Dr Black they all went to Dr knox's address where they
discovered Docker dockery's battery yeah Dougherty's body being readied for dissection oh my yeah so they had the
bloody clothing and the body now in their possession and so now more officers were sent to hair in Laird's
boarding house where they were informed where they informed Margaret Laird that Captain Stewart wished to see her
husband so as as they had done with the Grays Laird tried to just dismiss the whole
thing the whole evening events are being misunderstood here she overdosed we didn't do anything it was just drunken
revelry but she was very unsuccessful just as they were and both hair and Laird were
taken into custody as well and Burke and McDougall now were officially arrested after being questioned here and Laird
are just being brought in for questioning so throughout the fall of 1828 Burke and
Hare made tons of Reckless and very risky decisions in the beginning they were doing things pretty undercover they
got so [ __ ] Reckless and unraveled like it's really wild to why it's a it's a true downfall for them
but they were so [ __ ] Brazen and so weirdly confident that they could get away from this it is crazy how confident
they were that's the thing like Burke was even trying to explain away that why Dougherty was in his house
like why her body was in his house it just goes to show how [ __ ] like delusional they were or like like
confident it's like what like you really thought that was gonna make sense or that was really gonna work wait until
you hear the story he does you want to hear the because he told one story and now this is the other story he tells us
okay it's so his first formal explanation for why Dougherty's body was in his home according to Burke he and
McDougall had begun their day like any other day any other day and suddenly a man approaches him looking to have some
shoes mended he's a cobbler after all like I literally forgot that yeah Burke had never seen the man he didn't
remember his name he couldn't tell you anything about him but he agreed to help him out and he took his shoes and began
to work and while this stranger is while he's working on the stranger shoes this stranger just drags a trunk into
his house while he's working on his shoes this can't be and he's working he's he's just
working and he's like you I don't know why you have that crazy trunk in here but that's fine and Burke said it's so
weird I could hear the man removing the ropes that were used to secure the trunk
and then I found I I you know I heard this sound of a man like burying something under a pile of straw
I think it was like that's the sound that I heard no I must and I think that pile of straw was next to the bed yeah
it sounded like that I I've left and he said and then that man left then I discovered what that man had left in my
house and I tracked him down and I demanded that he come back and he removed this body and this guy said sure
I will but I can't come back until tomorrow morning to do it and he said okay my guy I guess okay my God I said
all right I guess I'll go back and just live with this naked dead body in a pile
of straw in the corner of my bedroom for tonight as one does and then you come back and you take this out and I didn't
know him at all but I just figured he was good on his word yeah you know he seemed like a trustworthy guy this
murderer he just seemed you know like this stranger with a literally approached me in town I don't remember
his name or his face I'm gonna tell you a damn thing about him he asked me to Cobble a [ __ ] shoe I said sure why
not he came back to my house with me he drags the trunk in my house I hear him burying a body I find said body
find him in town and say Hey you better come get that body out of my house and he says I'll do it tomorrow morning and
you say I don't I believe you I believe brother you sir I think you will come back I think you will come
back and get this body I'm shook it and he said this two investigators like they were not
gonna be like are you [ __ ] [ __ ] me are you [ __ ] my dick Burke are you really saying this story to me a
seasoned [ __ ] investigator and me I'm gonna go wow that what bad luck did they even what shitty luck
Burke has did they even give him an answer were they even did they were they just like you know what we have to go
now um you're going to jail bye oh yeah and then well because I'm I'm sure it was
one of those things where he went through that whole thing and they all just stared at him and you could hear
the blink blink yeah blink because then he was like yeah and you know it's crazy
I met that woman earlier in the day because because he couldn't this isn't absurd enough we have to we have to add
on to it he goes yeah she was begging for money and he said out of the kindness of my heart I invited her back
to my house for a meal and for some drinks and she returned to town after that after I had fed her after I had oh
so she was given her alcohol she left my house and she went back into town and I
said goodbye I hope you have a great night I hope that I fed you well I hope I hope I have done I I hope I've done
what I'm the teachings have told me to do to feed you to bring you win and I send you back out to town he goes I
never saw her again until I never saw her in my house until that man left her dead body in my house like what a
coincidence and he says a day or two later The Stranger sent two men who Burke had never met before to retrieve
the body no and he goes one of those men who I had never seen before came to my house and his name was William Hare
so now he is claiming that this stranger that dragged a trunk into his house that
contained a dead woman who he had met earlier that day brought to his house to feed and give drink because he was just
so kind sent back into [ __ ] town to be murdered by this stranger that dragged her in the trunk in his house
and hid her in a pile of straw in the corner of his bedroom he claims that he went back into town found this man said
you need to come get this body out of my house this man said I'll come back later
this man said I'm sending two of my guys to come get this lady and he said sure these guys show up at his house and he
says never saw him before just two strangers to me but one of them was William Hare like [ __ ] you've
been seen around town I could ask like Joe schmoe from down the street like hey you know Birkin hair and they'd be like
oh yeah those [ __ ] I'm shook like you're well known in town you not only are you friends your wives are friends
you have that you're you're a squad of four yeah yeah what yep and like like it's
unbelievable unhinged behavior and this is [ __ ] ridiculous it's incredible that he told this story thinking it was
gonna do anything but make everybody go wha but you know why he every part of the story
makes sense for why he put it in there as absurd as it is he was trying to explain one why people because he knew
he had been seen everywhere he had been seen with this woman he had been seen with Bert he had been seen with hair he
had been seen everywhere so he's he's doing this to say why people had seen him with Mary Dougherty both in town and
at his home because neighbors had seen her in his home two why her body and traces of blood
were found in his house he's explaining that away of course why the body had been by seen by gray at the house but
but then when the officers came back later that day it was gone he's saying well those two men came and took her
away so that's what I have to tell you and it's also to say why hair had been seen selling the body to Dr Knox the
next day because he was one of those strange men who came and got that body I have like I've said it before I'll say
it again I have to go like what it's it's absurd it's ridiculous and I'm like wow you really hit every you tried to
hit every possible thing that could connect you to this and explain every part of this but in the stupidest way
imaginable seriously like really wild and even more wild and unfortunate for him was that it didn't line up with
[ __ ] mcdougall's a [ __ ] confession about it because they didn't talk about this she's like nah me and my hubby are
Bros with them sorry we murdered one of the main discrepancies between his version of events that he just told that
wild yarn that he just spun oh my God I love when people call it like a crazy story yes the main difference and the
main issue between that yarn and the one that mcdougall's gonna tell is that she
was like oh um yeah we spent the day um drinking with William Hare and his uh his lady Margaret Laird
because and they're like oh like one of the guys who came to get the body that Burke didn't has never met like you know
who he was you guys spent multiple multiple multiple months if not years was it years
at the very least it's like and you didn't ever like I'm happy that you didn't but like it's mind-boggling to me
that not once did you sit down and say hey like if we do end up getting caught we gotta this is what we'll say hey no
hey Helen hey Laird come on over this is our story that we should stick to yeah you [ __ ] imbeciles yep like what yup
what yep it's wild I have to I Love Thinking about Burke being like and then these two men show up and they come to
get the body and I said oh my God this stranger's in my house coming to get this body of this woman that I out of
the kindness of my heart I fed and I sent into town and then she was dragging in a trunk into my house this is wild
these two strange men and these two strange men one of them is William Hare it's wild I I've never met that man
before in my life I don't even know who he is I don't know him I don't know him investigators I do not know him and then
they're like cool thank you and they go into the next room and they're like hey Helen can you tell me what you're doing
today and she's like oh my God absolutely totally we were drinking all afternoon with William hair lady
Margaret and it's like wow you know people never cease to surprise me never never
um after uh McDougall pretty much gave up the ghosts there after she shot a [ __ ]
megalodon-sized hole in that story what the [ __ ] ripped a hole the size of the
ozone layer in that story I think that's healing oh good for that yeah good for them yeah we've closed it up a little
we're doing something right I don't know electric cars you know what positivity yeah the joy candle look at that look at
that Joy you know anyway she's standing up straight she cute um but after that Burke was like
okay yeah I murdered her like he was just like he was literally like he's like so sorry that I um took a creative
writing class A few weeks ago and got confused with that while I was here but I did kill her because they just came
over and were like hey uh you drank with them we know that you're like real broey with William Hair
We Know You Wanna Do You Wanna you wanna edit that that statement you gave and that's all it took he was like
yeah I'm married I murdered Mary Dougherty and um several other people that was literally like from the sounds
of how close these couples were that would be like me saying like if John like walked into a room and the police
were like hey do you know that man I'd be like never seen him before no never seen him and they're like but you've
referenced him on this podcast multiple times I think that literally might be your sister's husband and I'm like no
I've known I don't know that man I don't know her he's a stranger I don't know why it's truly wild it's
really you can see now like they were just dumb just dumb Angry guys dumb Angry guys yes so so basically the
authorities in Edinburgh knew that enabled in order to get a conviction they just had to get the four of them to
turn on each other yeah there's four of them seemingly easy yeah and it might have been because of his younger age or
because Dougherty's body had been discovered in Burke's house but Lord Advocate William Ray William Ray he
determined that hair would be the one most likely to turn on Burke okay because all those what like hair Burke
is agreeing that he knows hair he hasn't thrown him completely under the bus yet
hair also just like gives me more diabolical Vibes yeah and hair is going to turn on Burke he's going to turn on
McDougall and they're like he's going to turn on Laird I'm not I don't think he's
got any kind of inherency to these people hair is the one that does the actual suffocating right yeah he may I
think he's the aggressor okay for sure they're but they both are but hair is just something about him yeah you're
right it makes me a little scared her agreed a little more scared of him agreed I don't know why
um I I thought it was kind of funny that like Burke essentially like implicated hair already but like go off King I
guess like sure her hair is going to turn on Burke sure but despite that Rey's assumptions seem to have been
pretty well placed because he offered hair immunity in exchange for a full confession and hair happily accepted he
said glad that I got my neck out of the halter and as for poor Bill Burke well he must go hang I suppose
sold his friend right up the river god and was like guess he's gotta hang he never gave a [ __ ] about him no he didn't
give a [ __ ] about anybody I don't give a [ __ ] about either of them [ __ ] both of
these losers from the moment they were arrested and put in a jail cell all four acute of the accused were prevented from
seeing or speaking to each other they couldn't communicate at all until the truth and
this makes it that it was probably a huge surprise to Burke that hair had literally turned completely against him
because he had no idea he went into trial being like and then it's like all of a sudden hair is like I'm the star
witness it's like what's like that must have been like excuse me when he probably especially didn't expect that
because he was the one that really did more of it exactly like actual stuff it's like are you [ __ ] kidding me so
as um as Lisa Rosner pointed out when the warrants for arrest and incarceration were handed down Burke and
McDougall probably had some idea that the Lord Advocate was being given information by either layered or hair
like oh Lord I know isn't that like a wild like okay Scott Disick Right Step Aside Advocate Lord Advocate uh like so
he probably had an idea that information was being given yeah hair and Laird um like the first warrant for the murder
of Mary Dougherty was sworn out against all four and so was the second one which
was against it was for the murder of James Wilson and only after hair's detailed confession the warrant for
Wilson's murder was amended and was only against Burke and McDougall so hair heading no no no against it the same
happened for the warrant for the murder of Mary Patterson which we only named Burke and McDougall as the perpetrators
in that one too oh so now Burke and McDougall are being wow I cannot see that coming I didn't either damn now
like we said throughout this whole thing it's very unclear the exact extent that
Helen McDougall played in these murders she obviously participated in some way be it yeah an outside
side thing you know like she definitely had knowledge of what was happening yeah
like definitely had it but throughout the murder spreeing confessions William Burke went to Great Lengths to
completely distance Helen from any of the schemes and to protect her from any prosecution and for that reason Burke
probably felt even doubly betrayed when he learned that hair hadn't just sold him out but it also sold McDougall out
right because throughout the entire thing he had tried to protect her and it's like now he made sure to like and
that's the thing you know hair was just so [ __ ] happy to be able to put McDougall in that I mean he literally
wanted to kill her so yeah now over the centuries after this Helen mcdougall's name has kind of disappeared from this
retelling of this story like she's in there but no one points to her as like what the [ __ ] were you doing yeah
exactly I do but at the time of Harris confession which they basically were they were really going off of hair's
confession at this point um he identified her as equally responsible for the crimes and so Burke
and McDougall were the only two prosecuted for the murders are you kidding me Burke and McDougall were
indicted December 8th 1828 for the murders of Mary Dougherty James Wilson and Mary Patterson their trial began
December 24th and it went a full 24 hours it was presided over Christmas it went into Christmas it was presided over
by a panel of four justices it began at 9 00 a.m and from the moment the doors were opened the courtroom was packed
yeah because then you could just like [ __ ] find your own airport room and they just wanted to see these ghouls
they had read a ton about them in the paper because there was tons of media so surrounding this case
and after they read the indictments both of the accused pleaded not guilty before the trial could begin however
Burke's attorney or argued it was inappropriate for his client to be tried for three unconnected murders
and after a long discussion the justices agreed with Burke's attorney interested
and ruled in favor of trying one case at a time okay so they didn't want to try the three unconnected murders in one
trial so after they announced the decision uh Lord Advocate William Ray was given the
opportunity to choose which charge he wanted to begin with and he chose the murder of Dougherty because he figured
it was the strongest case right so the trial went on with several witnesses saying they had seen Dougherty with
Burke throughout the day and also because Blake uh excuse me Burke had claimed the woman was a heavy drinker at
least one witness refuted that claim telling the jury she quote never saw her worser for liquor oh
um and after also the prosecution laid out the evidence of the murder including the body having been discovered by the
Grays in Burke's House the blood stains on the clothing the blood stains on the bedding on the floor the examination of
the body showing very clear evidence of strangulation and that she did not die of an overdose
the strength of the physical evidence was definitely bolstered by the Crown's key witness hair William hair Heat
testified that it was Burke who plotted with McDougall to kill Dougherty for money and he said quote he had an old
wife in the house and that it was it was a shot for the doctors and he went so hair went a step further
telling the the jury that Dougherty had left the house several times but had been enticed to come back inside each
time by none other than Helen McDougall so throughout the trial Lord Advocate William Ray and his assistant
prosecutors were very very deliberate and very measured in their questioning of hair on the stand okay they were very
careful to avoid any kind of question that might incriminate him in any of the crimes well yeah I mean that makes sense
he did however admit on the stand that he had sold the body to Knox but his participation in the murder of
Dougherty was otherwise very minimized otherwise his role in the actual murders completely ignored there were no
Witnesses called by the defense they just completely ignored it and after the evidence was given in
closing statements were made the jury deliberated it was a little after 8 A.M on December 25th on Christmas I'm
surprised took about an hour and they returned to guilty verdict for Burke's participation in the murder of Mary
Dougherty and he was sentenced to hang Merry Christmas [ __ ] the charge against Helen McDougall
was found to be unfounded oh so that's why you don't hear her name and her guilty ass in this story what's even
worse is it's 100 a certainty that Margaret Laird was involved yeah he was paid but she got no consequences and
what about hair yep so it's so wild to me while Burke did his best to Shield Helen of consequences for his for the
crimes that they had committed um it was really the defense attorney Henry cockburn who saved her from having
to hang I mean yeah throughout the trial he painted a picture of McDougall as a dutiful wife who lived with seeing many
things which are better imagined than told basically saying she saw some [ __ ] she knew what he would do to her so she
kept her mouth shut and she did what she was supposed what she was told to do and
it was true that she hadn't informed the police of Burke's crimes but it was only
because she quote felt obliga obliged to make false statements in order to protect Burke and avoid basically
becoming destitute yeah like and in this time especially that is an argument she
didn't want to be thrown out on the streets because that was almost certain death eventually right and so they were
basically being like she feared for her own life which doesn't give her like that doesn't spare her from being a
criminal but it also is like a way to defend her in a court of law you know like it makes it like I understand it
exactly um it also helped her case immensely that there was no evidence and no testimony that could even slightly
connect her to the murders right which she was found not guilty in the end now on the morning of January 25th 1828
a crowd of nearly 25 000 people gathered in lawn Market which is a Town Square Off High Street and
they watched William Burke hang in The Gallows damn so people were like abandoning their Christmas meals she
used to be like let's go watch this man well this was January 25th oh this is January yeah sorry maybe I did say
December no you probably said um so a month later no it right you were right a month later okay okay but what's kind of
ironic is uh Burke's body was donated to the Medical College the following day and was dissected by Professor Alexander
Monroe the doctor that they were looking for initially when they accidentally knocked on Dr knox's door
yo yo isn't that wild and he was dissected in front of an audience of nearly 20 000 people wow yep and when he
finished the dissection Dr Monroe apparently he did this thing and it's called an anatomist uh ritual okay it's
called where he dipped his quill into the blood still contained in Burke's head and wrote The Following declaration
in blood this is written with the blood of William Burke who was hanged at Edinburgh on 28th Janu it was on the
28th excuse me I got it wrong that's okay the 28th of January 1829 for the murder of Mrs Campbell or Dougherty the
blood was taken from his head on the 1st of February 1829. they were on some wild [ __ ] back then
they really were that's on like some opium thought process yeah yeah like you know what we should do we should make a
declaration blood of his skull yeah like and y'all were really God figuring I don't know
about that I mean if you're worried about whether Helen McDougall just went on to live her life I can help you not
worry about that I was that was my next question after I got past the fact that they just like wrote a quick little post
uh she was released from custody following the trial and she tried to go home she was met by a large group who'd
assembled outside of her house and made it pretty clear that she better get the [ __ ] out of Edinburgh or they were gonna
make sure that she didn't get out of there alive it's pretty assumed that she fled the
city later like very quickly after that but um no one knows what happened to her
after that okay she left Edinburgh hit me up with the Deets on hair people do think she was killed by an angry mob or
that she changed her name completely and lived in like a like isolated wow um well I will say the family of Jamie
Wilson yeah the um the young man who everyone literally knew and loved they protested against hare's Freedom good
and aggressively petitioned the government to reconsider the immunity he was given in exchange for his testing I
bet the Wilson's petition was given very serious consideration but the crown ultimately decided that they were going
to keep the immunity for his testimony and hair was very unfortunately released from custody on February 5th damn but
unfortunately for hair the public knew what he [ __ ] did and his very much equal participation in the
murders they knew about that too it took less than a day for a mob to assemble Outside The Boarding House
intending to uh kill him themselves for his own protection he was taken into police custody where he was dressed and
disguised and escorted out of the city via the road to Carlisle although he was never seen or heard from again it's
believed he either went to England or went back to Ireland and was never seen or hurt you you know that [ __ ]
murdered again 100 because he got he was the one in my opinion was way more diabolical I think they were both [ __ ]
up something about hair there was more to that something about him yeah he got away with it holy [ __ ] yep that's crazy
they should look into some [ __ ] unsolvable wherever he went I actually want to look back and see if there's any
connections later there's got up and I'll let you know if we find anything I don't think he just like was like um see
you later I'll just live a very quiet life after this bolstered so she was released from custody in
mid-January and she left Edinburgh for Glasgow and while she was in Glasgow she was discovered by an angry mob and was
had to be rescued by the authorities who put her and her baby she had a baby at this point one of those hairs or not and
sent her to Ireland [ __ ] um although although we don't talk about like when you read about this story you
don't hear a lot about what happened to Dr Knox or his wrongdoing and all of this right
um he definitely claimed ignorance for sure but he was confronted by authorities and they were like you you
definitely knew something was a miss here you might not have known the details but it's pretty hard to believe
that he had no idea that this that they were possibly murdering people to supply
him with bodies because that last body had very clear evidence Dougherty had clear evidence of being strangled and he
turned his eyes the other way he also pretended like he didn't know that it was Jamie but what's weird is Burke when
he confessed when out of his way to clear knocks of any wrongdoing as well he swore that Knox quote never
encouraged never taught or encouraged him to murder any person yeah I'm sure he didn't I think he just turned a blind
eye and it's like yeah no one's saying exactly like no one's saying that he told you to go murder people but like he
knew you were he didn't tell you to stop murdering people exactly and it's like luckily because you should definitely
not be let off scot-free here the public didn't forget his participation and everything either good and after public
outrage he willingly resigned from his position bye [ __ ] and Knox left Edinburgh several years later and
resettled in London where he died in 1882. peace out [ __ ] and that is the story of Birkin hair girl that's a
wild tale and you did like a really great job telling me thank you you're welcome thank you so much I was I was
like and thanks to Dave for like diving deep in that one I love Dave when love David
he's notorious it's and you know what we we got to we're working on another one that connects to this case oh my God and
I think Dave described it as like a hearty boys um like a Hardy Boys book but if there
was serial killers in coffins yeah that's exactly what he said actually I was present for that combo
so it's gonna be great I'm intrigued this story just is like fascinating to me mainly because of the ending one how
Reckless and risky they get in Brazen and how they just [ __ ] everything up from within yeah to how hair William
hair just I don't know what it is about him but I'm like you're scared like Burke is scary but like Harry I'm like
something about you and then the fact that he just gets away with it we like asserted dominance by like killing his
cousin he did I was like I also want to kill your wife he was just and then he made sure that she had to go she had to
get named in those indictments like yeah that's some like power [ __ ] and it's like scary like something happened
between him and McDougall I know right there in advance that like she was like that for me yeah and he was not about to
deal with that I mean like I just like really like made a leap there but I don't know I don't know I think well I
think there's a buffy episode recently where it's like don't jump to conclusions and it's like I just took it
I think she says like I just walked around the corner and their conclusions were yeah exactly I think this is the
same situation it's like I don't think that's a leap you just walked around a corner and their conclusions were and
with that being said we were talking the other day we're always like oh my gosh we should do like a chiller episode for
a palette cleanser which like we're still gonna do but if we ever do like an intense case and you need a palette
cleanser or if you don't and you just want to listen to another show go listen to The re-watcher Buffy the Vampire
Slayer it's so much fun we're re-watching Buffy Elena has seen it a million gazillion trillion times but I
never have and in the last episode they used a clip from Taken of Liam Neeson saying I will find you and I will kill
you and you don't know what that's in reference to and if that's and you should go listen and find out I don't
know about you they put fun Clips in there and fun little sound things it's so fun guys like that and that
podcast gives us the most joy in the entire world yeah it's just fun silly Nostalgia yeah exactly and if you don't
know now you know yeah go listen to it so with that being said we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it we
we're not Serena's hair definitely not as weird as Burke and hair ever or McDougall or Larry but never ever ever
keep it as weird as hair because I don't even know how weird that [ __ ] kept it but he kept it too weird I can
tell you that yeah he definitely kept it too weird so like bye bye [Music]

In the conclusion of the horrific crimes of William Burke and William Hare, we see them get somehow even more brutal. As time went on and they kept profiting off their violent tendencies, they began to get reckless and put their entire scheme and freedom at risk. In the end, only partial justice was served. Get ready, it's wild in here.

Thank you Dave White for research assistance.

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Brief Summary

Burke and Hare's gruesome murders lead to their capture and trial, revealing their reckless behavior and betrayal among accomplices.

Key points

Spooky Connections. A listener shares quirky food habits, leading to a surprising connection.
The Dark Turn of Events. The story takes a grim turn as the hosts discuss the murders committed by Burke and Hare.
The Brutality of Suffocation. Suffocation is a brutal and violent act that takes several minutes.
Burke and Hare's Recklessness. With each murder, Burke and Hare grow increasingly reckless and detached.
The Tragic Murder of Jamie Wilson. Jamie Wilson, a beloved figure, becomes an unlikely victim of Burke and Hare.
Mary Dougherty's Fatal Dinner. Burke and Hare invite Mary Dougherty for dinner, leading to her tragic fate.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This sounds whimsical, like a fairy tale!

Commenting on the nature of a dark story.

7:22WatchApr 7, 2023

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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