A Deeper Dive into the Murder of Elizabeth Short (Part 2) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elina and this is [Music] morbid this is morbid and it's Pat two
of a tup oh my God and it's kind of morbid in the morning it is that's why you might you might hear sleep in our
voices I know honestly probably not I woke up with a [ __ ] jolt this morning did you yeah I just well cuz I woke up
yeah you were like yeah I was late what else is new but I made a good ass coffee she did
she made a great ass coffee I wasn't sure if it was good I thought my beans OV extracted but no I think they
extracted the correct amount I think they might have and then we had like fun girl talk this morning we did we lifted
each other up we did it was women supporting women in the office we were like you're a badass [ __ ] tell
yourself that every day yeah and and you know what you guys out there you're all
bad ass [ __ ] and you should tell yourselves that every day yeah and don't compare yourself to anybody else no
don't because you can do that until the end of time and you'll always find someone that you're like well I didn't
do this and that person did that yeah okay do you did this so are you proud of your accomplishments that's the only
thing that matters you like you you do and if you don't like you I'm sorry about that and you got to get to a place
where you do like you first before you can do anything else and this is not an ad no it's really not it's just it's
just it's just the Vibes of 2025 especially with all the Mayhem we surrounding us with [ __ ] Elon Musk
deciding that he's an elected official like go [ __ ] yourself um so that with those vibes you have to get to a place
where you like yourself if not for any other reason if not for any other reason but because we got to take care of that
business truly but yeah so yeah it's just important and I want everybody to feel that way um I'm not really I think
we've like this is the year of like social media just kind of being crumbling not the thing not not the vibe
you know what I was listening I'm not going to get like everything completely correct because my memory is just a vast
land but a vast land of nothing but I was listening to Alisa Kelly's podcast her horescope podcast is so [ __ ] good
and she was talking about it was like at the beginning of 2025 I think it might have even been before 20 2025 it was
like here's what how I think it's going to go basically and it's I think like when from when social media started
we've done like a full circle basically like a full rotation oh absolutely so it's almost being flipped on its head
now so there's going to be these like massive shifts in social media which could be them crumbling which it does
kind of feel like and I'm not mad about it like I have been off of Instagram for
probably 2 3 weeks now I am like my insides feel better yeah genuinely that's the thing like there was no there
was no like inciting incident no that that really did this like really like truly there was no inciting incident
like there's always like there's always [ __ ] in the comments everywhere like in every comment section it wasn't
even that it was honestly just like for honestly mind citing incident was like my account following somebody that I
didn't follow which I think we all know who that is yes that happened to mind too don't support that orange man but I
was like I'm not going to stick around for this when like my account's being manipulated and like just see you know I
follow like a lot of like uh news outlets and that kind of thing and I think it's good to have information but
I think there we are living in an age where there's too much [ __ ] information there's too much
misinformation and if you have any kind of anxiety at all it will eat alive it will and it's like and please know that
like I know it's hard and it's a very hard line and we're not going to go too far into the story we're going to get
into the the case but sometimes it feels good just like well you guys are like our our broes so we want to talk to you
about it it's important and we care about your mental health because you guys are a [ __ ] rat ass community of
of awesome [ __ ] and we want you to be okay so but it's a it's a it's a hard line to
straddle to be informed but not be bombarded yes there yes that is the perfect way to say fine line and
it is I don't know if I have fully comprehended that line yet it's hard it's very hard because of course you
want to be informed but you don't want to be over informed to the point where you're you can't think of anything else
or appreciate any kind of happiness in your own life well there's never been a day and age where you have a [ __ ]
thing in your hand 247 that you can constantly be connected and constantly know what's going on like
that is not how we're meant to live it is pretty [ __ ] up when you think about it and the the internet and like social
media can be this beautiful place where amazing people can connect I do miss connecting to you guys that's the thing
like there's where I'm like I'm like I love connecting to people but then it's like but then it's also in you know the
human species is of is an onion of that that has some rotten layers to it and it's like and no matter what it's an
evil onion with a lot of rot layers but there's some great layers some flavorful
layers that will it'll make your soup delicious you know what it is there's shallots and there's onions exactly
there you go I prefer shallots I love a shallot yeah Jean shallot Jean shallot I
love sh I love a legum oh yeah speaking of that let's take a let's take a quick little little Veer are we um nothing's
better than [ __ ] Pearl couscous with shallots and veggie broth yes and some herbs on it I like the idea
of that but I want chicken broth the veggie broth gives it some kind of one thing about me some kind of something I
[ __ ] hate veggie broth really when I tried my hand at vegetarianism is that's what it's called
vegetarianism I I went like hard and fast with the veggie broth and I think now did it yeah it's it's not for me so
I always do CH I always do um I always do bone broth there you go all right well there's there's our little tip yeah
for for a new you yeah Pearl couscous though you know Drew doesn't like the pearled couscous he likes the regular
couscous I like both so I made the Pearl couscous and he's like what's this one I'm like it's just bigger a bigger
version bigger just pearls he's like I don't like it drew you're strange Drew I love that bands well you know what we're
um we're all over the place we're everywhere and we have some really awesome things coming up we can't talk
to you about yet but but [ __ ] you're going to know when they hit I feel like after they're hitting soon I feel like
after this case there's probably only like one or two episodes before we can before it's like before it hits you in
the face before it's going to smack you in the face so don't worry it's you're not going to be waiting months for this
or no we wouldn't tease like and and we feel annoying but like we genuinely just
can't but we're so [ __ ] excited because two of these things are happening like in real time for us next
week mhm and then they'll be coming out to you in a like a couple weeks after that 38 days later you know someday
we'll know you know how it goes but we know that like you know and we know that could be annoying to be like something's
happening but I it's coming and you're going to love it and my God I'm so excited about it it's so exciting
because also like the there's it's such a variety with these two things it's such a variety if it's going to fill
your cup like in so many different ways yeah in different ways and The Vibes are
going to be [ __ ] Immaculate chef's kiss [ __ ] Immaculate so just keep an eye out for that I promise you you'll
know it's going to literally punch you in the jaw when it happens so we'll say it in the intro too like to you know
whatever we end up talking about I mean you're going to know you just by the titles of yck baby ick yck all right
well we chatted so we chatted this was a good chat guys remember the moral of the
story just like make sure you like yourself it's really hard I get that took me long time took me past the age of 30 to
really get to the place that's what everybody says it was really past 30 that I got to the place where I was like
no [ __ ] I I'm me and I like me and I'm and that's okay I'm nearing it and I hope you are too I hope you are too
listening if you need help we'll just keep telling you to do it don't worry exactly just think of think of me
patting you on the back and being like you're [ __ ] great [ __ ] sometimes she genuinely actually does that to me it's
great it's great so oh I guess we have to keep talking about this horrific case which is very fascinating and one that
needs to be talked about because it is technically still unsolved uh we're talking about I know
we're talking about the black doia case the murder of Elizabeth Short uh one thing I find interesting with this case
uh is that the general consensus of the whole thing was like she was she was going out to Hollywood to become a star
and blah blah blah and that was her only like but in reality it's like yeah she was you know she wanted to be an actor
all that good but people make it seem like she was that's it and that was all that was and blah it's like no she
literally was just looking for a new start yeah like she was genuinely looking to just start a new and
obviously she had dreams of like you know being an actress and all that and she was doing extra work and all that
modeling yeah but I think like that emphasis gets put too much on that not enough on like she was really going
through a lot of [ __ ] yeah and she really just was looking for a place where she felt like she belonged I think
that happens a lot with these kind of stories like the kind of stories where like a young girl goes out to Hollywood
and she wants to be an actress but it's like that's never the only thing going on in somebody's life and in fact
usually when a young girl is escaping to California to Hollywood it's for a whole
bunch of other reasons yeah there's a myriad of reasons that are coming with it and on top of it she needed that
weather was her that climate was her ideal climate because of her lungs so it's like there was many layers to this
and I just think they don't get it doesn't get talked about enough when it like gets brought up I agre I see what
you mean it just hits on like the she wanted to be a star and it's like yeah she did it's like that's an overarching
she wanted to breathe too like that was part of it was pretty sick to have full lung
capacity it was it was pretty awesome so when we last talked about this case we were talking about you know several of
the suspects that seemed like good suspects and then would kind of fall apart at the seams Robert Manley was
like a really big suspect and he was the one he was the redhaired man noou that was you
know testing whether he loved his wife yeah that whole thing yeah uh remember that guy uh he he looked like a good
suspect but he was also very forthcoming with the information he never really he
never pushed away the investigators or tried to his his story stayed consistent right he he took a polygraph but fell
asleep you know you know as one does you know sleep he's going to sleep I don't know but he was released from custody
okay so cuz because we did also find out that two people who said they saw him with her and one said like literally off
well they literally were like yeah like she said her name was this and then it ended up not being that at all so fake
at this point they were looking only into her love life as a source of where this could be coming from this killer
and they were now realizing you know what the boyfriend angle might not be a good anle maybe we got to start like
widening our net here so with their best lead the redhaired man uh having turned
out to be a dead end investigators on one of the nation's now most closely watched news stories found themselves in
a bad place which is desperate that's not where we want to find our investigators on a case like
this no because that's when things get messy yeah um yeah so detective Harry Hansen told reporters on January 23rd
we're right back where we started which is also not a good place to be nearly 200 officers fanned out across the city
looking for new Clues many following up on a lot of false confessions that were happening as well that was like a wave
it's such a weird yeah thing the amount of men that came forward to be like me I
did it it's like I feel like back then too yeah I'm like were you all just bored like what is going on here yeah
what is the pathology there that makes somebody do that the pipeline from boredom to false confession yeah like
what is that but they would be you know following up on these many false confessions just you know wasting their
time and resources but they had to they don't know which one is false and which isn't or they were conducting house-to
house searches in hopes of finding any new Witnesses so they really were going hard yeah uh meanwhile the coroner's
inquest confirmed the details of the murder but offered really little else in a way of answers especially when it came
to the Gap in time between her disappearance on January 9th and her murder right that was the hard
thing to pinpoint investigators finally caught a lucky break on January 25th when a postal clerk spotted a package
addressed simply to Los Angeles newspapers and he looked at it and he said huh that's weird that's weird
that's suspicious so he immediately turned it over to the police and inside detectives found Elizabeth's birth
certificate what her address book a baggage check ticket and other personal papers that
belonged to her yeah of course as well as a note from the sender and in the note was in letters cut from magazines
and newspapers like the classic Ransom note oh I hate that and the letter wrote here is Dalia's belongings letter to
follow oh that's [ __ ] haunting yeah like that and they were really her her things so this was absolutely from the
yeah now during his interview with detectives Robert Manley claimed to have seen Elizabeth's address book in her
purse when he dropped her at the builtmore so that was a big thing that's huge now we we can at least follow that
and he'd seen the baggage check ticket from the Greyhound station so given that detectives concluded that the sender of
the package must have seen Elizabeth after she left the builtmore and could possibly be her killer mhm one detective
told reporters we have so many leads we don't know which to choose first at this
point which is a good place to be yeah but also a scary place to be it's a good place but like a a hairy place a hairy
place exactly investigators theorized that the killer sensing the case was going cold had done this sent the
materials to the press to keep his to update unquote work on the front page yeah he saw that things were cooling off
and they weren't getting anywhere and he said why don't I help you out yeah which
is so scary and very BTK very BTK like what if I send you a floppy disc BTK before
BTK this was he probably looked at this and was like there it is and I do wonder
if he looked at this and said well he never got caught yeah but he didn't put into any kind of thought that like
technology had had grown that was a big part of it so while several detectives started running down the names in her
address book other officers started combing area dumps looking for Elizabeth's missing clothes and purse
the day before the package was received someone reported having seen a bag matching the description of her purse in
a trash can on khaw Boulevard not far from a lot where the body was actually discovered on January 26th officers
finally located the bag at the trash dump on East 26th Street which is crazy they found the bag um alongside one of
the shoes Elizabeth had been wearing on the night she disappeared oh wow both were positively identified by Robert
Manley as belonging to Elizabeth that when you genuinely think of like the work that had to have gone in into that
think of how big like La is a pretty big place look at any dump yeah tell me how
hard that would be to find one bag just piles and piles of random [ __ ] yeah like
you that is that really is like that's detective detective work right there which not as detective work I would not
want to have to do that's definitely not it um the bag was later identified by the cafe owner on crenchaw Boulevard who
initially reported it to police okay so the cafe owner was like yeah that's the bag I saw
now although there was still a possibility that the killer had followed Elizabeth to Los Angeles from San Diego
where she had been before yep the receipt of the package and the discovery of the purse strongly indicated that the
killer was local okay because he was sending it from a local place he's still around like he's around um detective
Harry Fremont said I'm still convinced the Killer is still in town and I'm almost certain it is who has mailed us
Elizabeth Short's belongings which I think is pretty safe to say I'm like yeah I'd say so having run down all the
names in the address book now investigators ruled out all the men in the book which is wild yeah and began
hop uh hoping the sender would follow another letter just to kind of help them out at this
point was to follow I was going to say the note did indicate that another one would come and at this point they're
like we kind of need the other one to come unfortunately the news of the package prompted another flood of new
Anonymous correspondents most of which were h bookes because again people are going to people yeah rotten evil onions
it's not great one letter read quote a certain girl is going to get same as es got if she squeals on
us okay get it together people get it to [ __ ] together get a life and come on another letter said quote e short got it
Carol Marshall is next okay okay other notes in the letters suggested the killer was going
to give themselves up one of them said quote Dalia killer cracking wants terms that was a postcard from Pasadena [ __ ]
off all of them were just [ __ ] yeah just people with absolutely no [ __ ] lives but among all of these there was
one postcard written in plain block letters that caught investigators attention among all of them okay it said
here it is unlike it said turning in Wednesday January 29th 10: a.m. had my fun at police Black doia Avenger hm
unlike the other very obviously false claims the postcard from the Black doia Avenger seemed as though it could have
come from the killer because not only did it lack the grandiosity of the other ones the the the silliness and
Ridiculousness of the other ones the investigators thought the phrase here it is was referenced ing the Killer's
earlier claim that a letter was going to fall a package which makes sense and the
other ones didn't say that the other ones didn't cuz they didn't know that's what it said yep but this one says here
it is here it is and it was also just like had fun [ __ ] with you bye but like bye it wasn't really saying like
this person's next or like I'm going to turn myself in soon or yeah like something really stupid yeah just as the
letter indicated on Wednesday January 29th a man came forward to LAPD and confessed that he had killed Elizabeth
Short it was 33-year-old Daniel Vorhees hilarious last name yes truly uh told detectives that he had met
Elizabeth Short two weeks earlier in downtown Los Angeles and quote took her for a ride on a Wilshire Boulevard bus
and he stopped short of providing any other details about the murder itself wait so he just he took her for a bus
ride is that what told he said he took her for a ride on the bus is that the thing people did who knows imagine a
man's asking you being like do you want to go on a Peter Pan with do you want to
go on a bus with me what do you think of Greyhound yeah I guess back then it was
like you want to take a ride on the bus that's adorable in a way yeah not in this scenario not with Mr Vorhees but
according to Mr Vorhees the two first met in 1941 and he'd taken her on several dates before they lost touch but
when asked for more details about that meeting he again refused to say anything else uh but nevertheless Vorhees
insisted quote I'm sick I did Kill Beth short okay and he was willing to sign any documents confessing to it so Daniel
Vorhees was booked into the county jail that evening on obviously suspicion of murder uh there was going to be a
polygraph exam planned for the following day because they wanted him to they wanted to wait to have him recover from
his quote bewildered and befuddled State he was at the time of his arrest okay which tells you a little bit about what
you need to know about like the state he was in and wildered and befuddled I don't know about this I don't know if I
want to believe a confession from somebody bewildered or befug exactly and while this may have seen at the time it
did seem at the time a major break in the case there were several things about his confession that made detectives
unfortunately a little skeptical they didn't want to be but they were yeah uh in addition to his refusal to provide
virtually any details about the murder or how he'd come to no short at all investigators also described his story
is quote generally incoherent yeah we're we're teetering off the edge here folks
and it was also full of contradictions um also when they contacted police in Phoenix LAPD
detectives learned that Vorhees had a long record of petty offenses and at the time of his arrest he was not really
living anywhere and appeared very confused apparently he was from Phoenix that's s it sounds like he was very
mentally ill it sounds like he was going through it for sure uh the next day Vorhees changed his story telling
detectives he quote might have killed short but but he couldn't lead police to the scene of the murder okay didn't know
where that was Vorhees was held for a few more days while police looked further into his story but eventually it
became very clear that this was a completely [ __ ] false confession and he was let go cuz this isn't the kind of
thing again I think we touched on it in the first part like somebody was like you know um I forget what the I think it
was a newspaper article said something and it was like the killer snapped and like they were in a crazy frame of mind
it's like this isn't the kind of murder that you would just like Snap and commit
and be like oh I don't have any recollection of what happened it's like like this was hours and hours hours long
like she was tortured she was bisected she fought you off she was her of blood for hours that takes a while right it's
like there's at some point you would have come to and remember had some recollection of part of it yeah you
don't commit that like what whatever that uh bisection thing was called and in a in a state of mind where you're not
going to remember doing it exactly exactly now like their theory about a spurned lover you know an ex of some
sort detectives had expressed a great deal of confidence that the letters from the Black doia Avenger would lead them
to Elizabeth shortz killer but after Daniel ves's confession turned out to be false and the communication with the
Avengers stopped they once again found themselves at a dead end yeah after two weeks of intense investigation involving
hundreds of lap PD Officers they had comb through all the leads and clues they had and they had yet to find the
murder weapon uh they didn't find the crime scene they didn't find a single suspect that was even remotely viable at
this point um the LA Times declared quote it appeared almost certain The elusive killer was a stranger to miss
short um and they wrote as even her closest Associates G have given not the slightest inkling to police of the
identity of the murderer Chief of Police donaho agreed telling reporters that most likely quote the black doia Nemesis
was a pickup whom she did not previously know in the earlier days of February tips continued to come into the LAPD and
each one they ran down they didn't ignore any of them they didn't just assume they were stupid they ran down
and pursued all of them among them was a woman in Long Beach who claimed to have
heard quote unearthly screams coming from a quote long expensive on the night Elizabeth
disappeared uhhuh did you call call anyone when that was going on this informant told police she'd been waiting
at a bus stop that evening when she saw a man quote holding a woman down in the rear seat of the car with a man in a
woman on the front seat and she didn't call why are you waiting until now to say anything then
there was a tip from Elizabeth's friends where they were just trying to like think of anything they were trying to
think of anything that could help so they said she had recently quote plugged cavities in her teeth with wax from
candies which sent investigators back to potential witnesses to ask whether they'd seen anyone caring for their
teeth in such a way wait what she would plug her the cavities in her teeth with wax candies
yeah and so they were saying like did you see any did you see her buying wax candies did you see anybody cuz like who
knows did you see somebody like fiddling with their teeth have like with you know
sticking something in their teeth a bus anywhere they're literally trying literally anything cuz these are like
unique traits you remember that that they're like okay maybe might be able to go somewhere with that yeah like maybe
that's something if somebody says like Oh weird I did see a girl sitting there like sticking something in her tooth on
the bus or something like that that can at least help them figure something out right While most of the tips came from
the Los Angeles area they did receive calls and letters from other parts of the country too which very unnecessarily
taxed agency resources it just made it even worse in early February for example investigators received a call from
officials at Fort Dicks in New Jersey uh reporting that one of their soldiers Joseph Dume had disclosed to Army
investigators that he'd been on a date with Elizabeth Short the night she disappeared now he's in New Jersey yeah
according to Dee he had gone on a date with short on the evening of January 9th but quote after the date his mind went
blank and the next thing he remembered he was in Pennsylvania station in New York across the country from where she
was yeah totally Fort Dicks investigators analyzed the uniform Dume had been wearing that night and found
what turned out to be blood stains on one of the pockets of his pants creepy now when they began digging into his
background investigators learned that the 29-year-old Soldier had been married three times and on at least one occasion
he had been examined by a psychiatrist who recommended he be hospitalized for psychological reasons
also while D's claimed to have been in Los Angeles the previous month there was no record of him having traveled to
California recently yeah it was eventually determined that he had nothing to do with Elizabeth's murder
and the blood stains in his pockets could have quote come from a bloody handkerchief oh okay but by then
investigators had already wasted several days and precious man hours in this completely false [ __ ] lead which is
really [ __ ] annoying as the first week of February came to an end investigators had become so desperate
for any new leads and eventually returned to what the Press described as quite as quote twice cold Clues so there
was doubling back on things while some members of the team went back to Old suspects and Witnesses hoping to find
anything that could Point them in a New Direction several other detectives started following anything that even
resembled a lead no matter how insignificant like the cavity thing right this included a report from a a
young woman in Culver City who told police she'd been waiting for a bus when a man in a 1940 sedan approached her
Isabelle Foster said quote the man asked me if I wanted a ride I refused he then
took out a long butcher knife and ordered me into his car Jesus she started to panic and started to cry and
the man told her shut up or he would give me what he gave the black doia okay which like here's the thing I
don't think he's out here I could be wrong cuz he's a [ __ ] [ __ ] whoever did this so it's like whatever it would
be weird to me if he was just out on the street being like shut up or I'll do to
you like I did the black doia like I don't think he's just going to be like the black doia yeah like I don't think
I'm going to be out like I don't think he's going to be running around saying it to everybody out on the streets maybe
he's saying it to people in his life yeah for sure I could see this guy being an idiot and who we think it might be I
think he was talking about it with people in his life I don't think he's had a random bust stop trying to kidnap
somebody and being like if you don't get in my car I'm going to do the same thing
I did to the black doia to you well it's also like if if I do get in your car that's when you'll probably do it ex and
it's like now this girl's going to fight even more like you kidding that doesn't
make sense yeah reports like that of Daniel Vorhees Joseph D's Isabelle Foster's report of this man with the
butcher knife and all the others they didn't pan out and they were so common yeah they were just they kept coming in
from the moment the body was discovered the front pages of every major newspaper
in the LA area were dominated by the case of the black doia so it just kept on coming such intense public interest
drove equally intense press coverage and led to so many hoaxes so many false confessions tons of mistaken ident
identities complete lies just people inserting themselves while these stories may have been you know great to read in
the paper very interesting and they Honestly made the case appear very complex and very fastpaced and very like
you know like we're running down leads and we're doing this the truth was this whole thing was indicative of just how
little information detectives had to work with yep and it soon became apparent to the press and the readers of
these papers that the case was growing cold yeah and because every time these things came out it was like no yep and
we don't have anything now by the end of February investigators were literally grasping at straws at this point looking
for any detail or any clue that could just give a little spark to this case but they were coming up empty which is
crazy with how this how this woman and it kills me because they had Clues at the crime scene and they failed
footprint and tire tracks massive Clues so to be honest they [ __ ] themselves from the beginning it's real cool that
they're running down leads now you [ __ ] yourself over you had Clues which I don't I will never understand why they
didn't photograph that that footprint and the and the tire Treads yeah why would you not take photographs take a
mold of it like do whatever you can right like that's and it to let that crime scene become
so contaminated and congested I just yeah yeah I'm like did they come out and say like we didn't take the photograph
because blah blah blah no I think they just things it's the same thing as like it got lost and this is the like they
just don't explain it yeah a few weeks later investigators acknowledged that they had no leads and that this case was
cold now the story of the black doia murder had dominated the papers for weeks with stories informed very heavily
by people just theorizing and speculating and whatever bits of information the LAPD was willing to
parcel out to the public uh the latter of these included information about certain arrests and potential suspects
who were inevitably and very quickly ruled out but behind the scenes there were other suspects whose names weren't
immediately released to the press and who were considered way more seriously than the people they were releasing to
the Press also in the years since Elizabeth Short's death a large number number of authors and journalists
they've published books and articles naming many suspects ranging from famous people like Orson Wells and Woody
Guthrie and even notorious gangster Bugsy seagull lots of people have been fingered for this the suspect list
contained more than 20 names including many doctors and a few women huh which I don't know if I just the pathology of
this one I don't see it but I could obviously be wrong yeah um well some of these theories have been very debunked
over the years like very easily uh there remains a small list of names that many
believe contains the Killer's identity in there this girl I believe it I definitely think so so this one is
interesting so in John Gilmore's 1994 book severed the true story of the black doia murder the author strongly suspects
Jack Anderson Wilson AKA Arnold Smith as the killer based largely on circumstantial evidence which is
evidence yeah no matter what no matter what that's really all we got at this point and he bases it on an interview he
conducted with Wilson before his death in the interview Wilson claimed to have been driven to kill by some Supernatural
Force MH um he told Gilmore he had to do that when the spirit overtook himh Wilson went on to hint at his
participation in the murder saying quote you understand the trouble I could get into because of what did if he could
somehow make it seem like that he didn't do it you know what I mean it's like we're talking about litigation and that
sort of thing everyone is entitled to go nuts what everyone is entitled to go nuts no this is like that investigator
being like you know she probably teased him and he went berserk like and again babes we're not entitled to that like I
don't it separates us from the animals you need to like what are you talking about we're not entitled to l and kill
someone this isn't like the spirit overtook me and I became frenzied this is not that this is not a frenzy Mur
that's the thing this is not a disorganized frenzied passionate moment of crazy anger moment
meticulous murder this is hours and hours and I think it was controlled torture and I think it was
planned yes it's like she are we forgetting that the blood was drained from her body everyone that requires a
lot and the bsection you're not the bsection is so clean you're not going to convince me that somebody who was
overtaken by a spirit and like lost their mind was like yeah I just figured out how to bicep her I just figured it
out I'm I will not encourage you to look at the crime scene photos cuz I'll never
encourage you to do that no and these have been shared so many times that unfortunately they're everywhere if
you're familiar with this Cas you are familiar with them I looked at them because I we were going into this case
it is a remarkably clean bisection yeah the this is not like I'm sorry to get graphic here but you're here it is not
like a tearing through somebody kind of thing like this is not a ragged cut it's
a cut that is so [ __ ] clean it's clinical is what it is right that is a clinical cut if I ever saw one you will
never convince me that this person is not a doctor or a surgeon exactly it's the same thing as Jack the Ripper you're
just not going to convince me I agree it's just the way it is for it and we will get into that don't worry yeah uh
in the years since the publication of that book severed the true story of the black doia murder severed has come under
a lot of scrutiny for a lot of inaccuracies mistakes you know a lot of that stuff among other things um the
author Gilmore paid Wilson for the interview okay and which does happen for sure but in these Cas is that that makes
your eyebrow raise a little and the transcript indicates the conversation occurred over the course of many rounds
of drinks oh well that's which can taint things not great uh it has also been pointed out that years after severed was
released Gilmore had Advanced an entirely different theory about the killing so it kind of taints this
original one because you're like right um in a 1982 interview with the Los Angeles Herald examiner Gilmore
described a suspect he refers to only as Mr Jones uh according to Gilmore Mr Jones had confessed the murder to one of
Gilmore's contacts okay now in this version of events Gilmore claims that Mr Jones picked short up at the builtmore
and quote she and Jones traveled from an apartment in Hollywood to the Roosevelt
Hotel where he picked up a key to the house at 33rd in Trinity Jones was angered by Elizabeth Short's behavior
and her refusal to give in to his advances the two quarreled about a phone call she wanted to make and when she she
insisted on leaving the the wooden house and incensed Jones beat her raped her and then losing all control nope
tortured her and ultimately killed her no in his frenzy to cut the body up for disposal purposes nope that's not why
she was cut no that was not for disposal purposes she was posed she was you are trying to dispose of a body
you cut off the limbs you I know this sounds horrible but if you're doing it for disposal purposes
you are putting it into bags so it isn't found or that it is found in several different places you are not putting her
next to a sidewalk where she is found posed and honestly if it was for if it was simply only 100% for disposal
purposes this is awful but you would assume she would be in more pieces exactly she her limbs would be easier
disposal you don't leave limbs on if you're trying to dispose of a body easily and again this is a horrible
discussion to have but it's just this doesn't make sense yeah like that you can't tell me this was for disposal
purposes no and then this was for it was for shock Factor she was posed like she
was getting a photo taken right that's not what that was don't tell me that was disposal if it was she would be in bags
y she would not be laid out on the grass no like come on um so it says Jones cut
the body in half then panicked at the prospect of Discovery and he wrapped each part of Elizabeth's short there
there was two two in curtains from the house nope there was cement bags wrapped the entire bundle in an oil skin
tablecloth and loaded the body in his car no and at what point did he decide to drain her of all her blood exactly
you didn't mention that yeah we're we're we're always skipping that one in these
confessions where where'd you do that where did you do that how long did it take how'd you know how to do it yeah
like come on Gilmore claimed to have that tracked Mr Jones down in 1978 and found him living in Indianapolis the
author went to see the man however and when he arrived he just decided not to talk to him okay Gilmore said quote I
just looked at him now I'm sorry I didn't talk to him about Elizabeth short because I didn't know at the time that
he had killed her I didn't have that part of the story I didn't know there was a situation between my contact and
Jones that there was always an antagonism what so it just gets a little messy this this whole pretty messy and
it's a little weird yeah so there's that don't know about any of those were big suspects that people talk about for a
little while but then in 1991 and this one's there's a big there's a big issue with this one to me okay in 1991 another
suspect was put forward when 54-year-old Westminster resident Janice Nolton went
to the Press claiming her father George Nolton was shorts killer okay Janice had
been undergoing psychiatric treatment at the time and claimed she had uncovered repress memories of witnessing her
father kill Elizabeth in their garage okay now that was in January AR 1947 that she claimed it happen she claimed
that her father who died in a car accident in 1962 had been dating Elizabeth in 1947 and that short had
been staying quote in a makeshift sleeping room in their garage where she had a miscarriage for me already I have like a
ding-ding ding where his name would have been in her address book if she was dating him exactly yeah yeah precisely
at least in my opinion there's that but then there's another big one that to I was like nope now according to Nolton
she quote remembers the woman Elizabeth Short sitting in a chair under a bright light and her father hitting the woman
in the face and head with a claw hammer now that's horrible and she did have lacerations and many wounds to her
head but did she have like skull fractures she um I'm not sure if she had skull fractures but she had a lot of
lacerations to her face in her head like if you're beaten with a claw hammer a lot of times you have skull fractures
here's the thing because Janice said she witnessed this while hiding in the family's garage okay I think Janice went
through some horrible [ __ ] in her childhood very clearly and I feel for her absolutely to be to be coming out
with this kind of thing a lot of stuff has happened ab and she was going through psychiatric treatment so she was
obviously trying to work through ome stuff yeah so I'm not saying that I don't believe this because I don't I
think she's just straight up lying about anything I just don't think she's gone through a lot and I think this is kind
kind of a manifestation of some of that and I can't imagine what she did see with her own father well she probably
did see this happen to somebody I just don't think that person was a little short um she said in the garage she
witnessed her father use a power saw to cut the body in half no no that cut is not a power saw cut a
power saw would leave there would be some ragged unfortunately again I'm going to get graphic there was going to
there's going to be some edges and some tearing there's going to be I mean she had there's there's full organs right at
the edge of that cut that are fully intact right that they are not touched they are not nicked they are not ragged
they are not destroyed and mangled they are intact which means it was something very meticulous used to do this one
think of a power saw it's going to be vibrating yeah it's going to an organ slip very easily and exactly mled where
she was found the top half of Elizabeth Short she has found there is very clearly a large organ protruding from
the top of her body right that would have been falling out of there and it would have been nicked and mangled and
destroyed it with a power saw a power saw was I will die on the hill a power saw was not used to cut her in half no
it just wasn't no it was a surgical situation instrument yeah 100% yep so immediately when I heard a power saw in
a garage I said absolutely not um the following day she says Janice said her father quote took the body to a utility
room next to the pier and gutted and cleaned the victim's body she wasn't she was not gutted maybe she meant the Blood
Part maybe like that was her version of being saying it but this one just doesn't and why would
for me yeah and I just it just doesn't no but I do feel for her I do I feel for Janice a lot because obviously there's
some stuff going on there and hopefully able to work through that sounds like he
was awful um and the thing is in the mid to late 1980s there was repressed memories had like a moment like it was
like that was the concept of that be it gained a lot of Attraction and um like a
lot of you know practitioners in mental health Fields were like very focused on it for a little while um I believe they
exist for sure oh they absolutely I do believe too much was placed on them in the 1980s it actually there there was a
lot of that being the drivers of a lot of the satanic panic in the later 80s and early 90s think I don't think it's
something that you can rely on too heavily because memories are already faulty yeah you can't hang your hat on
them and I'm not saying repressed memories don't exist I literally like I've experienced repressed memory but
again it can they can be Wy and a lot of times with repressed memories even in my
own experience there's missing pieces still within those memories exactly it's not it's not always a full picture
exactly and it uh and our brains are our brains are meant like they they by Design fill in details exactly and like
based on experiences based on what we're consuming based on so many different things feelings emotions how you feel
that day what you ate what you did you know mean like read like and it's like again repress memories absolutely I
believe they exist I believe they can be very helpful I believe they can be very
helpful moving through things and dealing with things like I that's the thing wholeheartedly I think to hang your hat
on a repressed memory is like hanging your hat on an eyewitness there's got to be more there's going to be some human
error here and there's going to be repressed memories can be like a mismash of different memories that are all
smushed into one y so it's like you might be that might have happened she might have saw that but again like you
said I don't think it was Elizabeth Short she sh saw I think she's seen Elizabeth Short y she's seen the story
and your brain can marry those two I just the details don't fit for me but again feel for Janice because holy [ __ ]
to even think that about your own father this some bad [ __ ] capable of a lot of
[ __ ] nefarious [ __ ] yeah um it was around the mid90s people did start to realize that like hanging your hat on
repressed memories was not the best course of action and that like we said indeed they exist but they are fuzzy
yeah um and a lot of people like you know when it was all like really heightened in like the late 80s early
90s when satanic Panic was starting to like explode a lot of members of law enforcement took reports of repress
press memories very serious even if they were out of this world strange and unrealistic they would take them as fact
right it was almost like not great yeah it was which is not it's just not fact there it's in someone's mind you can't
rely on that it's well it's just as as much as circumstantial evidence is real ref memories are real but they are
circumstantial evidence you got to have them along with some really concrete [ __ ] exactly um in this however with the
LAPD you know trying to chase anything down they even had a hard time believing this particular story um detective John
St John said we have a lot of people offering up their fathers and various relatives as the black dollia murder so
sad which means there's a lot of shitty dads out there which is like get it together we been um he said the things
that she meaning Janice is saying are not consistent with the facts of the case and it's not uh regardless of
whether you know detective St John believed her Janice remained convinced her father was involved uh she told the
reporter he was a very sadistic man which again breaks my heart for her um she claimed that he didn't just kill
Elizabeth Short either she also said she recalled two other murders committed by
her father and she believed Lees one of the victims was mutilated and buried in the family's yard in Westminster oh damn
so when she said this investigators in Los Angeles although they were suspicious of the claims members of the
Westminster police department were like well we should [ __ ] look into this like we didn't just Let It Go um
Westminster Lieutenant Larry W uh wner said repress memories like these do check out sometimes it's not unusual
which is exactly how I feel it's like can't ignore them but you you know hang your hat on them so in the summer of
1991 investigators in Westminster received approval to excavate the empty lot where nolon's house once stood yeah
just on the chance that Janice's memories were accurate um he told the reporter the detective or the lieutenant
excuse me he said she seems to think that we may find a purse or some other belongings of Elizabeth Short a few days
later when the site was excavated technicians found quote a rusty knife animal bone fragments and costume
jewelry weird but found no conclusive evidence of a murder that said was a little
strange cuz they said the items did appear to be buried on purpose yeah um and they did find that unusual so they
said we don't know how significant this is but it's definitely interesting why would anyone put such things that far
underground right so it is strange and it sounds like her father was a sadistic [ __ ] and maybe he did do some [ __ ] they
didn't find anything connected to Elizabeth yeah now despite the strangeness of the items found under the
house there was nothing indicating a crime even had occurred just that it was weird so w Westminster police did
decline to open an investigation CU they were like yeah I we can't do that based
on a rusty knife and costume jewelry it's like there's nothing here that says somebody was even hurt like it's just
not uh nevertheless Janice maintained her belief that her father had killed Elizabeth and actually went on some
high-profile talk shows like Larry King live Sally Jesse Raphael oh and promoted
her story okay in 1995 she co-published a book with Michael Newton titled Daddy was the black doia killer damn yeah even
after her story and the popularity of her book had passed Janice remained con like on that story and convinced that
her father was responsible um he a Los Angeles Times Reporter Harry uh Harish said quote she'd leave long rambling
voice messages on my answering machine at the times so it sounds like she really she was going through through
some stuff um she died unfortunately by an intentional drug overdose on March 5th 2004 oh man so I feel bad for Janice
that's that's a tough life cuz I don't judging by that story I don't believe that her father was the killer of
Elizabeth sh but I feel feel her dad was a bad man yeah and a sadistic Man by her
account yeah and that she went through a lot clearly I I just feel bad yeah that's
like I feel like that's like that's a lot and then to die by Suicide it's like obviously she was psychologically going
through a lot by a lot yeah you know and it's really sad um again it's very unlikely that her father was Elizabeth
schz killer um but in 2003 another person stepped forward to offer up his father as a potential
suspect in the case and this story is the one is the story in my opinion same um in his 2003 book Black doia Avenger a
genius for murder former LAPD homicide detective Steve hodell who is a good [ __ ] guy a good [ __ ]
guy yeah he you've heard his name we talked about call case we' I think we've talked about him even before we talked
about him a few times he is known by his colleagues as a good cop and a good guy
um he offers a very compelling case for who he believes is the killer his father
Dr George hodell doctor Dr George hodell he a surgeon right yep he sure was um he
believes he killed Elizabeth Short and so do I at the time of Elizabeth Short's disappearance and murder Dr hodell was a
well-known and highly respected physician and the one-time head of the country's social hygiene
Bureau uh according to hodell quote he was a hard and cold individual with a huge ego whose demeanor bordered on
tyrannical wow uh he said also he was an experienced physician he had the skills
tools and the space necessary to commit this murder without detection cuz that's
the other thing you need the space for this murder that is something to carry in my opinion none of the other suspects
have they don't have the skills they don't have the tools and they do not have the space right you need a lot of
space and it needs to be secret hidden space she was alive when her mouth was cut she was alive MH there's going to be
as [ __ ] maab as that is there's a lot of noise that was going to be happening here and he needed somewhere he could do
this where no one was going to find him and no one was going to hear him and to me cuz you might be thinking like okay
well that other guy had a garage that's one not enough space two people are going to hear screaming they're going to
they're going to hear those tools mixed with the screaming that if that's the way it happened it just doesn't make
sense for me no it doesn't make sense it really do he had George hodell I want you to look it up because I I know
you're all like immediately going to Google because I also did this oh yeah get get on it uh look at his house at
the time it's a huge house he didn't you have like a huge basement huge basement
basement huge basement wait correct me if I'm wrong was there like tunnels and [ __ ] I think there was just like a it
was a Labyrinthian kind of basement like there was a lot of space lot of space a
lot of space away from the rest of the house offshoots there was a lot of people in that house that were willing
to do a lot of [ __ ] up [ __ ] to save their own [ __ ] to make money to save their reputations L times when it's
wrapped up in money craziest nastiest out of this world [ __ ] happens he was also he made sure to hire people in his
house like cuz he he was very rich he was he had a maid he had all kinds of [ __ ] I me he's a [ __ ] surgeon he made
those were people that he was also [ __ ] by the way yeah so he made sure that everyone was on his side like
that's like he was that none of them were going to talk and he had [ __ ] on all of them yeah so this guy relied on
blackmail he relied on it and he was there was so much dirty [ __ ] and we're going to get into it but I I encourage
you to read the book by Steve hodell know anything I'm just he's convinced me it is it is captivating it's a very
captivating case it's one that has too many coincidences for me and for me I'm not a big coincidence person there's
that many it's two on the nose now George hodell Jr was born and raised in Los Angeles in the first decade of the
20th century which was a very big and exciting time for expansion for the city as a child he was incredibly intelligent
he consistently scored the highest on every test he was very very smart and ultimately he graduated high school
early and enrolled in the California Institute of Technology at 15 years old wow one result of his obvious
intelligence was that George was treated very differently than his peers his whole life and given the impression that
he was special and deserving of special treatment young age it's not you know it
can be great yeah but not great for the ego here just one year into his education at Caltech George was expelled
yikes according to Steve hodell his expulsion was either for being kicked out for engaging in a sexual
relationship with a faculty member's wife meanwhile he was 15 right or for repeatedly gambling on campus which was
against the school's rules maybe both yeah in the years that followed George drifted from job to job including
working as a crime reporter with the Los Angeles record during the prohibition era wow before finally enrolling in
Premed at Berkeley in 1929 which is insane insane from there he went on to pursue a medical degree at the
University of California and he graduated with a medical degree in 1936 he also went to school at the time where
that specific bsection method was being taught coincidence number one yeah following his graduation George worked
his way up through the State Health System also making very high society friends along the way friends with lots
of Hollywood Elites along the way I think we're learning now that that means something connections yeah I think we're
learning that that has something uh it was through this social network that he met his first wife Dorothy Harvey who
was the former wife of director John Houston with whom hodell had one child a daughter named Tamar hodell's marriage
to Dorothy Harvey didn't last long but his relationship with his daughter Tamar would prove pivotal yeah not only to his
life but in Steve's case against his father on October 1st 194 49 Tamar disappeared from the couple's home on
Franklin Street and was nowhere to be seen she was I believe at this point she was about 14ish yeah um after several
hours of contacting friends and neighbors George hodell did contact the LAPD and reported her missing two days
later she was found to be staying at a friend's house and she was taken into custody by the
LAPD while she talked with the police officer she explained that she'd run away because quote my home life is too
depressing because of all those sex parties at the Franklin house yeah now coming from someone so young the
statement was very shocking to the police officer U more shocking though was Tamar's confession that not only had
she seen the parties but also quote took part in them by the time the interview ended a few hours later Tamar had
implicated her father and three other adults in a conspiracy of abuse as well as confessing to having engaged in
various sex acts with several of her male classmates at Hollywood High high school so she was being abused on a
galactic level yep that is the only way to describe that given the severity of these accusations and the notoriety of
the men at the center of the Scandal the authorities moved very quickly and George hodell was arrested a few days
later and held on $5,000 bail guys get it together by the time he posted bail a few hours later the story had reached
the press and the one prestigious doctor was now being associated with sex parties an incest not great uh in
interviews with police and reporters Tamar claimed that Dr hodell had been molesting her since she was 11 years old
this is her father and that she had been encouraged to participate in sex acts with other adults at various House
Parties to which she obvious couldn't consent was she was raped that's what that means that's that's the clearer way
to say that not that she was you know encouraged to participate she was raped she was raped in early December 1949
George Odell went on trial for the abuse of his daughter and the da presented several witnesses who claimed to have
been at the sex parties and verified what she alleged wow even hodell himself and this should not be
understated because even hodell himself stated in depositions that he had been quote delving into the mystery of love
and the universe with his daughter yeah no there's no mystery about [ __ ] your own child
later he will claim like no I didn't do anything it's like nope you said it you said it because he also suggested that
his memory of the events was quote unclear like a dream he's [ __ ] he's disgusting in the the case should have
been an easy prosecution for the da close and chat open and chat had it not been said close and chat close andat
don't open close shut just shut it yeah throw throw him behind bars but there was one statement made by Tamar during
questioning from the defense that kind of made it changed it a little before ending his questioning defense attorney
Robert NE uh neeb asked one last question he said Tamar do you recall a conversation you had with a roommate at
the Franklin house by the name of Joe Barrett and do you recall in that conversation making the following
statement to him quote this house has secret passages my father is the murderer of
the Black Dalia my father is going to kill me and all the rest of the members of this household because he has a Lust
For Blood he is insane the courtroom was [ __ ] stunned by this I would think and Tamar tried to
explain that she had no recollection of having said that I mean of course she's scared for her [ __ ] life yeah despite
the strength of the case going into the trial it soon became clear that the defense had intended to make her seem
like a petty vindictive daughter who was willing to lie in order to get revenge on her father who she felt ignored her
that's what they were trying trying to go with I think she wished that he ignored her honestly she'd be better off
one defense witness after another took to the stand to call Tamar a liar or Worse to recant their previous
statements corroborating her initial accusations so they had said she was a and then they would come back and be
like just kidding real nice she's a child Steve hodell later learned that several of those [ __ ] Witnesses had
been offered large sums of money by his father to lie on the stand I think they call that hush money and I hope you are
having the life you deserve or you having the afterlife that you deserve to all those people I fully believe in
karma at the end of the trial George hodell was found innocent of the charges abely insane even after get you out of
anything he said he had been exploring the Dre world [ __ ] it was with his child
yeah you're [ __ ] gross dude several months later George relocated to Hawaii where he remarried and cut off
communication with all of his children wow nice he's a piece of [ __ ] that's good but they're better off without him
yeah Steve hodell hadn't given that statement about the black doia during the trial much thought really until he
was going through his father's belongings after he died in 1999 I hope he thought a horrible death I do too and
he came across a small photo album that not only contained a photo of Steve's ex-wife taken before he'd ever met her
but also a photo of Elizabeth Short that is insane uh coincidence number two everyone yeah the photos caught Steve
off guard and he started going through his father's history more closely hoping to find out why he had a photo of a
notorious murder victim he also found other photos that he believes could be Elizabeth sh but they have not been
confirmed okay uh over the course of several years Steve hodell combed through old police files and City
archives remember he is an LAPD homicide he's a detective um and he talked to anyone who knew his father and could
provide any insight into his history through that process he learned that his father's close relationship sh with many
celebrities including the artist manray who was a surrealist artist would figure
prominently in his theory according to Steve in the mid1 1940s Dr George hodell had become known as a reliable and
discreet provider of abortions whose Client List included Elizabeth Short meaning he had even more blackmail on
people exactly in his interviews Steve claims to have spoken with at least eight people who quote asserted that
they knew firsthand that had some kind of relationship with short at least eight people have said that that's a lot
of people yeah based on and that that um that artist manre he does a painting a couple of his paintings are very
reminiscent of the scene yeah uh based on all the pieces he uncovered while writing his book Steve hodell concluded
that his father coaxed Elizabeth Short to a party at his house where she was subjected to sexual assault torture and
eventually murdered he offers a large amount of circumstantial evidence to support this claim and again like I said
circumstantial evidence is good evidence um including the fact that Short's body
was found to be positioned in a way that like I said recalled two of man R man Ray's more famous works of art which Dr
uh George hodell or yeah Dr George hodell were was very interested in yeah now you can also he was like very into
like surrealist dream [ __ ] clearly hear it when he says it was all a dream and I
was exploring the dream of the universe and blah blah blah like he's very into that [ __ ] so that does figure
prominently despite the circumstantial nature of the evidence Steve wasn't alone in his suspicions either following
hodell's acquit for assaulting his daughter LAPD detectives started looking closer at him as a suspect in the
Elizabeth shortcase oh [ __ ] so during that time they were like whoa whoa what about this guy wait a second the other
officers outside of Steve hodell this included Dr hodell being followed by investigators for several weeks and
having his phones tapped for a period of time which when you hear about the phone
tapping of it all I'm like I don't know how you continue going into this like how did you not even build more against
it because I think people got paid off during this period George hodell had been heard on more than one occasion to
vaguely allude to his participation in Elizabeth Short's murder in one phone conversation on the the first day of
being tapped George tells a friend supposing I did Kill the black doia they can't prove it now because my secretary
is dead coincidence number three who says that not me and ultimately the investigation into George hodell went
nowhere and was ended when he moved to Hawaii in 1950 but let me tell you a little more about that why that's insane
yeah so on the very first day after he said that supposing I killed the black doia they can't prove it now cuz my my
secretary's dead and it's also like why do those two things correlate to each other George exactly on that same those
first few days he said that they also got the statement of they got that statement they got him bragging about
paying off law enforcement wow uh having officers demoted that's good who were peeking too quick too much into his [ __ ]
and he Tau like anybody who was like looking further into his like the case against you know that his daughter had
against him and anybody who was on that that he was getting demoted paying off people to get like to turn on the stand
which they have proof of which is how he was ultimately acquitted yeah and his physician friends were also part of all
this like these conversations apparently so there was a lieutenant je gemson who was working
hodell's case and one of his physician friends that he talked to this Lieutenant jemson he was quoted in a
report as saying to this lieutenant someday I'm going to fix Tamar I'm going to cut a chunk out of her calf of her
leg and fry it and eat it in front of her eyes and then puke it up in front of her
face um what those are his friends physician friends saying that about his daughter who he is accused and most
definitely assaulted yeah oh just of note the there is a large portion of Flesh removed violent ly from Elizabeth
Short's thigh by the way and her right breast was saw off so hearing some of his friends say I
would cut a piece of her calf out and fry it and eat it in front of her is pretty noteworthy when you look that
there are pieces of Elizabeth Short's flesh that have been very obviously and very intentionally removed from her body
in fatty parts of her body as well yeah her thigh and a one whole breast wow like you're telling me that's
coincidence that we just happen to have a guy that's saying he's going to do that I think that's coincidence number
four now wow holy [ __ ] yeah in February when when they were tapping his phone there was one day where they hear George
hodell speaking of his secretary Ruth Spalding who he was speaking of before my secretary dead he said he she died
she died under suspicious overdose in 1945 and this time he's saying quote they thought there was something fishy
anyways now they may have figured it out killed her maybe I did kill my secretary so he literally just said it
killed her like what do you you have you literally have it and if he had any Rel
and apparently if he had any relationship with Elizabeth Short that secretary would have known about it of
course she would have obviously she organized all the [ __ ] according to Steve hodell the LAPD at the time
acknowledged that they suspected and investigated hodell of intentionally overdose ing his secretary with seanol
which is a barbituate and a sedative yeah they said they looked into him they thought he did it they investigated it
at the time there is a lot on these tapes and I urge you to check them out because holy [ __ ] he was a shady dude
and he was just it's literally proven that he was paying Law Enforcement Officers he was talking about it and
often times he would talk in German to his friends saying these things yeah it's insane the transcripts of these
tapes are Bonkers they're bananas I don't know how we just fluffed it away and we're like
ah I don't know maybe he's a suspect what you almost wonder if he did know that he was being that they had
absolutely did at [ __ ] with them he absolutely did at one point it's insane now in the early 2000s Steve hodell
presented all his materials to the Los Angeles District Attorney they reviewed the material and ultimately decided not
to pursue the case for why mistake mistake in my my opinion [ __ ] you guys I think it's such
a big mistake they didn't like dude he's dead the least you could do just look look into it and see he done all the
[ __ ] leg work he might as well give it a shot well it's like you're not getting any more money from this guy
he's dead yeah [ __ ] convict him yeah convict him he can't hurt you anymore let's let's go and also the people that
were at that time being paid off by him and all that [ __ ] that's the older L LD
this is supposed to be a new crop of people that are supposed to be going through this that you're not those
people and it's like look into it man there's enough here he absolutely in my opinion he is absolutely without a doubt
the yes if you look at the transcripts of these tapes there's also a time where they caught a woman screaming on the
tape and then they hear George hodell talking to another person on the tape saying leave no Trace that's good and a
woman is screaming and they didn't go check that out and even Steve hodell is like I don't understand how nobody
listening to those at the time they were tapping him like live why nobody made the 5 minute trip from the state the
department to go check on what was happening because they were he was like at the very least there was like at the
very least there was felonious assault of a woman happening clearly and they didn't do anything so that to me tells
me everything it's like you didn't want to intervene on that what the [ __ ] were
you going to intervene on nothing if it cost them money it's crazy I very much encourage you to look into that whole
part imagine coming to that realization and imagine what his [ __ ] childhood was
exactly like my God and it must be frustrating that nobody's [ __ ] listening to you yeah now since
Elizabeth Short's body was found in that bacon lot in 1947 her murder has fascinated and I'm one of those people
fascinated the public and generated no small amount of myths legends lore everything associated with it um by this
point it's entirely likely what's known about the victim in the case is a lot of Legend in fact like we've given
you all the facts we can but a lot of things you'll hear we were talking about how like you know she went to Hollywood
to become a star like that's that was true a very small yeah it's like she had a lot more
that she wanted to accomplish out there like getting her life together and like starting over being healthy being able
to breathe like meeting someone she had all kinds of aspirations so it's like a lot of this became you know and there's
things you'll hear that you can easily do yeah um on one hand the notoriety of the case you know it's surprising
because there was very little evidence that they had um and it's not like Elizabeth Short was like a famous
actress at the time she was you know a a civilian walking around trying to get a
job right but when you look at how she was found what she endured and the Mystery surrounding her it's easier to
understand why this has become such a Fascination for everybody pool of suspects that pool of suspects and just
like that crime scene there's no way this wasn't going to well Fascinate people going back to the the manray of
it all like you guys got to look at some of those photos and then look it's interesting to say the least to even
just like don't look at the crime scene photos if you don't want to but even just to hear them described the way that
her body was positioned off center yeah like look at man R just go look at it and this also is like the intersection
between Hollywood and murder which is that always is going to get everybody's attention it's just it's a fascinating
place it's a dark place it's a scary place it's a beautiful place it's a shimmery place you know it's like all
layered it is so layered um since her death you know Elizabeth Short has become a symbol for anyone you know
hoping to moralize in One Direction or the other because a lot is placed on you know how many boyfriends she had and
what she was doing with her life whatever the facts it seems unlikely that anyone's going to be
really satisfied with an ending to this case because people have so many different theories thoughts and theories
but I think people I almost think it's like the Jack the Ripper case where you don't even know anymore if people want
it solved that are not like part of the case you know what I mean that they just
want to keep talking about it and keep theorizing um a former LA Times Reporter Larry Harish who we mentioned earlier
said people don't want the record set straight people want this grab bag of Noir tropes yeah which is not cool not
great that honestly he said it perfectly it's a bunch of Noir tropes a grab bag of Noir tropes and when you really look
at the reality of the case and I I this is just our opinion that I think Steve hodell is on to something here abolutely
I think he he's a very interesting person to listen to and a trusted Source a trusted Source uh you know somebody
who has a long history of not being a [ __ ] uh that I can tell I think it's an interesting one and
I think it can be solved I really do I think it can and I think we just need to keep pushing for it you never know like
we said a cold case is never cold it's never cold it's never cold it just gets a little chilly and we just got to give
it a blanket so I think we can do it Steve let's go Steve's like I tried Steve's like but I've done everything
like I literally went everybody I could Steve I don't know I want to re approach
when there's new people exactly we just got to reignite it reinvigorate it keep it in people's ears keep talking about
it keep bringing new things forward and eventually it's going to happen I know it um so that is the case of the black
Delia the murder of Elizabeth Short it's a crazy one it is and I'm glad we' Revisited it I wanted to give it a
little more uh def space more and time and attention and yeah different things yeah for sure very very interesting case
I think we we could probably revisit it again in even like five more years and we have more abely and thanks to Dave
for doing such a good job with this one too cuz Dave is one of the smartest people I know he is he's
lovely you guys should all have a friend like Dave you should so we hope that you
keep listening and we hope you keep it weird I honey honey we don't got to say it
that's so Weir they don't fill your own cup Bring It full circle Steve let's talk Steve
[Music] [Music] [Music]

On the morning of January 15, 1947, a woman walking with her young daughter spotted something pale and white lying in the weeds of a vacant lot. When the woman walked closer to get a better look, she made a horrifying discovery: the bisected body of a young woman, brutally murdered and like trash in the abandoned overgrown lot. The woman in the lot would soon be identified as twenty-two-year-old aspiring actress Elizabeth Short, who the press nicknamed “The Black Dahlia.”

Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!

References

Associated Press. 1947. "Mrs. Phoebe Short can't believe slain girl hers." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 17: 2.

Bartlett, Jim. 2017. The Black Dahlia: Los Angeles' most famous unsolved murder. January 8. Accessed January 14, 2025. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38513320.

Daily News. 1947. "Body of girl mutilated by murderer." Daily News (Los Angeles, CA), January 15: 1.

Federal Bureau of Investigation. 1947. Correspondence, Identification Division, FBI. Letter from R.B. Hood, SAC to Director Hoover, re: Black Dahlia identification, Washington, DC: United States Department of Justice.

Gilmore, John. 1994. Severed: The True Story of the Black Dahlia. Gardena, CA: Zanja Press.

Goffard, Christopher. 2024. "The killing of Elizabeth Short, dubbed the Black Dahlia, has inspired endless theories." Los Angeles Times, October 26: B1.

Hodel, Steve. 2003. Black Dahlia Avenger: A Genius for Murder. New York, NY: Arcade Publishing.

Lait, Matt. 1991. "Memories of murder." Los Angeles Times, June 22: B1.

—. 1991. "Search fails to turn up evidence of '47 murder." Los Angeles Times, June 23: B1.

Los Angeles Times. 1947. "Beth Short slaying suspect jailed after asserted admission of crime." Los Angeles Times, January 29: 2.

—. 1947. "'Black Dahlia' knife braggart terroizes girl." Los Angeles Times, February 5: 7.

—. 1947. "'Black Dahlia's' love life traced in search for her fiendish murderer." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 18: 3.

—. 1947. "'Dahlia' clues fail; inquest conducted." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 23: 2.

—. 1947. "Elizabeth Short case slayer baffles police." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 31: 2.

—. 1947. "Girl victim of sex fiend found slain." Los Angeles Times, January 16: 2.

—. 2004. "Janice Knowlton claimed a link to Black Dahlia murder." Los Angeles Times, December 19: B7.

—. 1947. "'Killer' fails to surrender in Elizabeth Short death." Los Angeles Times, January 30: 2.

—. 1947. "Mystery envelope sent in 'Dahlia' case; address book gives dozens of fresh leads." Los Angeles Times, January 25: 3.

—. 1947. "Police await second 'Dahlia' letter for clue to break murder case." Los Angeles Times, January 27: 2.

—. 1947. "Police free red-haired salesman as suspect in 'Black Dahlia' murder." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 21: 2.

—. 1947. "Police stumped in beauty killing." Los Angeles Times, February 2: 2.

—. 1947. "Soldier's 'Dahlia' date tale newest clue in slaying." Los Angeles Times, February 6: 2.

—. 1947. "Soldier's leave time checked in 'Dahlia' murder." Los Angeles Times, February 7: 2.

—. 1947. "Suspect detained for questioning in 'Black Dahlia' mutilation murder." Los Angeles Times, January 20: 2.

—. 1947. "Tooth cavities clue checked in beauty slaying." Los Angeles Times, February 4: 2.

Nightingale, Suzan. 1982. "Author claims to have found 1947 murderer." Los Angeles Herald Examiner, Janaury 17.

United Press. 1947. "'Sick' veteran is booked in Dahlia death." Fresno Bee, January 29: 1.

—. 1947. "Spurned lover is hunted in murder of 'Black Dahlia'." Fresno Bee, January 17: 1.

—. 1947. "L.A. Police hope Dahliua murderer will surrender." Sacramento Bee, January 28: 4.

Weller, Sheila. 2015. "The sins of the father." Dujour, June 01.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

Ash and Elina discuss the Black Dahlia murder case, focusing on Elizabeth Short, the investigation, and key suspects like Dr. George Hodel.

Key points

Women Supporting Women. A heartfelt conversation about self-love and empowerment among women.
The Black Dahlia Case Begins. Introduction to the infamous unsolved murder case of Elizabeth Short.
A Haunting Discovery. Detectives find Elizabeth's belongings in a suspicious package, raising new questions.
Daniel Vorhees Confesses. A man named Daniel Vorhees confesses to killing Elizabeth Short, but his story raises skepticism.
False Leads and Frustration. Investigators face a barrage of false tips and confessions, leading to frustration and confusion.
Clean Bisection Analysis. The nature of Elizabeth Short's murder raises questions about the killer's expertise.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The human species is an onion with some rotten layers to it.

Metaphor about humanity's complexity.

5:24WatchFeb 24, 2025

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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