A Deeper Dive into the Murder of Elizabeth Short (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Molina I'm Ash and this is [Music] morbid oh know just felt a little
unhinged I mean what else is new I was going to say wow weird I just got sub she did it was a it was a a break from
the norm I haven't had Subway in like 10 years at least I know I haven't had Subway in a long time yeah like possibly
15 years it wasn't even a choice it it just happened yeah yeah I just I really wanted to I really wanted a tuna fish
sandwich real bad yeah it's real tuna apparently it is well Elena tried to tell me that it was and she was like you
know it's not real tuna and I was like oh my God and then I Googled it and it turns out there was a lawsuit back in
the day yeah people was trying to say it's not real tuna it is yeah I became the internet
for a second and I was like let me just spout something that's complete [ __ ] with nothing to back it up she said that
she she said she was just testing me to do my own research I was like I wanted you to check so yeah I did my own
research and it turns out survey says tuna real tuna it was good it slapped I'm glad it slapped for you that was my
lunch I like that for you thanks I had some cottage cheese with and some uh sundried tomato and basil
Wheat Thins you have to say Wheat Thin Wheat Thins it was delicious that wasn't like my lunch that was just a snack like
a pre-lunch yeah pre-lunch appetizer we have an exciting thing happening today that we can't tell you yet I know and my
tummy all jumbly for so she didn't eat lunch I said are you going to eat something [ __ ] and she said I can't I'm
too excited but don't worry you will find out what this thing is and you will find out fairly soon actually so yeah
hang tight there's a couple ex I being those annoying people who are like we know something and you can't but you
will it's fun I promise you Oh I thought you were going to continue that sentence I thought you
were like I promise you no I just meant like I promise you you'll find out like period yeah you're funny period
period uh so we're going to be covering a case today that you might be like wait
a second did I see this before you did you did uh but I want to cover it better we've grown um we covered it a long long
long long time ago it's no longer on there but um this is one of the first ones yeah this is one of the first ones
so you know it's a it's a case that deserves another look and a deeper dive so Dave Touch a little Dave Touch to it
so we decided to revisit it and um it's also it it happened in January which oh yeah we didn't even mean to do but I
don't even I knew that we're fresh out of January right now Che it um we are going to be covering the black dollia
murder the murder of Elizabeth Short so this case has so many layers to it this is going to be a two-parter it must be
it has to be it it must it must be um I'm getting into my Transatlantic accent because we're going to Hollywood baby
Hollywood Hollywood we're going to Hollywood and we're not in real life um I'm staying firmly planted over here uh
but yeah this is a crazy case it is the first case I can truly remember becoming unhinged obsessed with
I remember that um it was this and like Jack the Ripper that I really just could
not stop uh this one in particular because I remember seeing I believe it was one of those like E True Hollywood
stories or one of those like Mysteries and Scandals with AJ benza they used to do the countdowns yeah exactly and I
remember it was one of those um I loved those I loved AJ Ben I don't know what he's up to now if he if he's good or bad
right now I'm I'm not up on it and I bet he's fine I hope I'm going to Google it
really fast because like I have fond memories of that show in him what's what if I just Googled what's
AJ Benz doing what's AJ Benz up too um his real name's Alfred that's crazy good for
him good for Alfred he's just like doing poker okay so is he just Poker podcast is he kind of just like quietly existing
podcast yeah it's sounds like he's chilling he plays for he plays he no he plays harmonica
wow doing all right he's like Blues Traveler so is this the AJ benza am I correct what if it this is just like a
random M I feel like that's AJ benza yeah I think so he has VI uh AJ benza what are you doing what are you up to I
just I when I mentioned him I was like you know you always got to be careful to be like oh [ __ ] I cuz you don't want the
only thing for anyone to hear out of this is J benzo he's a bad guy and you're right it was Mysteries and
Scandals Mysteries and Scandals I remember it was like he was the host and I remember him standing on a on a very
rainen sidewalk it was dark there was lots of fog around him at all times and he would walk out and start telling you
the story and I it oh my God right bro I can can't you see it no I not only can I
see that I can see the point of view like watching TV from your bed oh my God that's what in the purple walls oh my
God see it's it it has a special place in my heart core memories core memories and I remember seeing the black dollia
case and I remember them showing some version I don't know if my mind is like twisting this it's not cuz
I remember it too some version maybe it was a sketch or something of her autopsy
photo yeah no I remember cuz I remember seeing the glasgo smile I remember remember seeing that vividly uh and I
remember that being the point when I said what like I was like what somebody did that to someone else I feel like
they show not like obviously like an overhead shot but I they show part of the the crime scene the crime scene yeah
it's like from the it's that classic photo where you could it looks you know the crime scene looks like there is a
mannequin laying in the grass yeah uh and of course we're going to get into the specifics of this because it was not
a bloody crime scene she was drained of blood um in part two we will get into all the theories we're going to talk
about who we think did it um we're going to talk about you know a lot of the people that they were going after for
suspects um so don't worry we'll get more into that and I think in part two too we'll kind of go through even more
of some of the nuances of this stuff um but right now we're going to tell you about Elizabeth Short I'm going to tell
you about the crime scene I'm going to tell you about how she was found and we'll get a little bit into some of the
suspects all right let's do it so strap in AJ benza I hope you're listening oh my God hi AJ
oh my God how I don't think he has a poker podcast by the way I said that wrong it's a poker show oh okay good for
him man yeah just before anybody corrects you wrong okay yeah wrong it was live reading yeah it's you know
we're live Googling right now yes we're taking us back to a cool and very overcast Day January 15th 1947 all right
this is when Betty buringer and her three-year-old daughter an left the house for a nice little morning walk
just a stroll yeah just a stroll um they so the lam mert Park area of Los Angeles
which is just 5 miles south of Hollywood was a very newly developed and planned community and there were still a lot of
vacant Lots in it um they were along Norton Avenue and people would use these vacant lots a lot of the time because
people are always going to people oh yeah to dump garbage other stuff you know like be be the dumb part of people
yeah uh so when Betty caught sight of a pale white thing in the tall grass in the empty lot she thought oh someone
left a broken Taylor's mannequin yeah in the lot rather than just getting rid of
it properly you know it was just one of those things that she she kind of walked
by and was like like can people stop peopling please yeah she was like oh my God put your trash in the garbage
exactly but then Betty got closer to the object which was just a few inches from
the edge of the sidewalk if you have ever seen the crime scene photos or anything like that or been to that area
you know that she was right up out in the open to think that she was with her three-year-old daughter yeah worst
nightmare worst night shakes me to my core yeah and I mean Elizabeth's body was right on the grass next to the
sidewalk I mean that all of it was intentional um and she immediately realized she was not looking at a
mannequin at all but a horrifically mutilated body of a young woman who had been bisected at the waist MH I think
that's what initially really drew me to this case like made me just like morbidly fascinated and absolutely
horrified by this case was just the extent of the mutilation that was done to this woman yeah I could not conceive
of it I still can't conceive of it uh it's even to this day it's it stays as one of the most horrific cases of
Mutilation oh yeah you can conjure now at the sight of this poor woman's absolutely mangled body Betty
immediately grabbed her daughter and ran for the nearest phone and she called the
University division of the LAPD and reported what she had seen now she was fully panicked obviously and absolutely
horrified going through complete shock so she didn't like adequately describe what she found like she wasn't able to
convey it in a way that some it would be a little understandable how would you so
the communications officer on the other end noted that it was a quote possible 390 which is a stous drunk down in the
lot at 9th and Norton Avenue it's like dude why would she be that horrified if it was just a drunk person stumbling
around that's the thing like I'm like I feel like you even if you note that as like I think this is what she said you
should be like but she sounds really upset so it could be there's other things going on here um now whether
because of confusion or poor communication the officer also neglected to get the caller's name or phone number
so didn't know her name was Betty didn't know how to contact her after that o I don't really know why maybe because they
were thinking it was like a stous drunk situation maybe like first day on the job type Vibes very first day on the job
training and their their overseer was like in the bathroom a lot of this uh scene was manhandled in a very bad way
which I think led to the reason why we don't have definitive things even today that was the opposite of a bang up job
yeah not not great at all um in fact it was going to be a full 10 days before invest tigators were able to track
bursing her down through notices in the papers like they couldn't find her anywhere so they could they had no all
they had was that initial call and then that was it so they just came up upon it
and we're like okay Jesus now expecting to find someone sleeping off a night of drinking in a lot the dispatcher sent a
single Patrol call to investigate the call and countless journalists and press photographers had heard the call go out
over the police radio Ros that they all kept in their cars so they all kind of followed just to see if there was any
story there yeah um Los Angeles examiner reporter will Fowler and his Fowler and
his partner Felix Pagel were the first to arrive at the scene before the LAPD had arrived oh [ __ ] so the journalists
arrived before the police and y'all know how that goes yeah that's never good they were shocked because Fowler said
there's something about a dead body you couldn't mistake it's difficult to describe two parts of of a body as being
one however both halves were facing upwards her arms were extended above her head her translucent blue eyes were half
opened so I closed her eyelids oh now that's really sweet don't touch a dead body why the [ __ ] did you touch a dead
body yeah don't be the hero I'm sorry beautiful beautiful sentiment love that for you that you were trying to be
respectful here's my thing to everybody don't [ __ ] touch a dead body if you find it don't touch a dead body for a
myriad of reasons don't get your [ __ ] fingerprints on a dead body hello you don't disturb that don't disturb the
scene you don't know anything about what's going on here you don't know if something was injected into her eyes you
don't know if something was put it like you don't know yeah so just sweep don't touch the sentiment love it very
respectful very empathetic I wanted to close her eyes don't don't do that yeah don't involve yourself now the patrol
officers arrived a few moments later and quickly called the division to let them
know uh no it was not a drunk sleeping off a night of drinking in a vacant lot but a a horribly mutilated dead woman
thank you for [ __ ] that up on the highest level you possibly could well that's the thing I I don't know how like
I don't know the procedural for this but I'm assuming you would probably send a different set of officers for those two
things yeah I would think so like you're not sending the homicide division to a a
sleeping drunk yeah exactly that's like it's I'm I'm just a little confused and again I'm not not I've never been in
this situation how the person on the other end confused what she said so hard yeah
and like you said with the amount of anxiety and panic in her voice I feel like you would question she's not going
to be that upset about a drunk sleeping it's like I don't know I feel like there
should have been a little maybe I don't know if she hung up quickly and maybe they couldn't get anything else I don't
know but I'm like wow this really this game a telephone busted up right away yeah um the news of course brought more
reporters and soon the the crime scene was absolutely overtaken by reporters photographers additional LAPD officers
it was chaos just chaos of course and in order to keep as many people as they could out of the crime scene now
detectives told Patrol officers and some of the reporters at this point because they needed however many people they
could to make a human chain around the perimeter to keep people out Dear God but by this the scene had been
absolutely trampled by so many people coming and going and it would and honestly it remained open to the Press
long after investigators left as well so whatever evidence was maybe there totally tainted and again this is 1947
exactly so there's not a lot of evidence to begin with most likely exactly and it's like after investigators left that
scene should have been cordoned off and somebody should have been stationed there yep and that way they can go back
to the scene if they need to something comes up you go wait let's get back to that scene and take a look again and
they didn't do any of that so people were just trampling right through it right after they left it's like guys
what were you thinking I don't I don't get it at all but it was common for murder victims to be dumped in various
locations like the lot where Elizabeth Short was found especially around Los Angeles it was just you know just the
area but from the moment investigators arrived at the scene it was clear that this was not their run of the- Mill no
this for this was there was a lot here it was it was definitely not the killer trying to get rid of the this body
quickly no that is for sure like this was not like I just have to remove myself from this situation they had
arranged Elizabeth Short's body in a very particular way and had chosen a location where she would 100% be
discovered very quickly like very quickly this was and the way she was arranged like the the two halves of her
body were placed close to one another with about 12 inches between them and the upper half was placed somewhat
asymmetrically from the lower half like a little bit to the side okay and her arms were raised above her head and both
of them were bent okay at an angle very much so like you were posing for a photograph right that makes sense um she
was also completely nude mhm M um but it was very much like she was posing like you would lay on a bed to pose for a
photograph like you know like like you would see in a magazine at the time like a a spicy magazine you know uh so it was
very clear that they were trying to pose her in a way that it would shock and in
a way that they they were definitely trying to send a message either about who they believed she was or about
something else outside of her something in their pathology exactly the level of violence that the victim had been
subjected to I mean it exceeded what most veteran law enforcement officers and on the LAPD
had ever seen or would ever see really saying something yes um detective PW Freestone told reporters at the scene
this is the most brutal example of a sex crime I have ever seen she had been cleanly and when I say cleanly I mean
cleanly bisected at the waist which is shockingly absolutely insane yes whoever had done this it felt like they had
access to the type of tools required to do that in a surgical setting yeah this is like this is kind of like when I go
back to like Jack the Ripper um don't worry I'll talk about the DNA soon uh thank you for tagging me and everything
um but this is kind of what I say with Jack the Ripper that I don't think like it's it's hard to understand how
difficult it is to cut parts of the human body cleanly if you haven't tried to cut human body parts cleanly can
confidently say I've never tried yeah so it's like if you have not been in a profession where you have done that yeah
or been around that it's a little hard to wrap your brain around it is absolutely especially if you've only
seen it in like TV and all that kind of stuff in movies so like with Jack the Ripper I was always saying I do believe
this person has medical knowledge because to be able to do that stuff in the dark for in the light it would take
a somebody who knows where these organs are and then to do it in the dark it's like muscle memory just feels like you
have to know ex precisely where these things are it's kind of the same thing here this isn't somebody who just happen
to figure out how to cleanly bict a body they knew how to do it and they knew how
to do it because they know where things are because they are medically trained that's how I believe this situation is
going here I think you're right um and there's also other parts of that lead to that too which we'll get to there was
also and this is my next Point here there was a lack of blood at the scene um and it indicated obviously that this
mutilation had occurred elsewhere and that she was likely killed elsewhere but her body had also been completely
drained of blood that is one of the factors about this case that always has stayed with me yeah completely drained
of blood and it's just like why that's the thing and I think it was why there is could take you down so many
different Pathways I think it it it very much to me is another point in the column of this was a surgeon yeah I just
to me it Feels Like Somebody experimenting with things that they had knowledge of obviously but experimenting
to a degree and just doing the most yeah uh almost like showing off their skills
because it's like you have to have knowledge of like vessels and you know the the vascular system to know how to
properly drain a body of blood you also have to know how to do it where to do it
um you have to have the space to do it and you know certain people that are suspects in this case have really big
houses with basement uh do you know off the top of your head how many liters of blood like obviously I'm sure it varies
but like like an adult body would have I'm fairly certain it's five like a little over five perhaps it's like
somewhere around that okay um I lost like a ton of blood when I had my twins I had to get like two transfusions I
think I lost like two liters of blood so that's that's the only reason it's stuck
in my head how many to think of a body completely drained of Blood Cuz I saw you I saw you obviously in the hospital
after you had gotten the transfusion so all your blood was back but you looked I
I remember I will never forget pulling a nurse aside and being like is she like going to make it like she okay I was
like gray so I can't you were no you were literally gray like I've never understood what people meant when they
they say somebody's gray the like there until that moment but to see somebody completely yeah drained of blood like
and to think about the the procedure and the process of that yeah I can't because
normally to do that it it means I'm I apologize for getting graphic here but it's really all
I can do normally to do that you're going to hang the person upside down to allow all the blood to drain out just
gravity M you're not just going to sit them in a bathtub or anything like that and let you really need some gravity to
help you out here yeah to drain somebody completely usually it's like hanging them up over something would you assume
that that would have happened after she was bisected I would assume yes right cuz then I would ass yeah cuz that's the
easiest way to do it because you've got two halves which is awful that are less blood in each to drain at once kind of
thing you know what I mean like it's less and again we're getting graphic here but you are you you clicked on this
damn it it's less messy yeah it's just and it's less um less of a distance for the blood to travel to drain out of the
body cuz you're cutting it's all right there the travel in half essentially so this would have to be somebody who has
the capability of doing all of that right which is not your average job which is not just your guy on the street
who was mad that she didn't date him you know what I mean like which is what they
were really like yeah going with for a while I'm like I don't think any of these [ __ ] dick wads that were just
like being [ __ ] to her are really capable of all this and again this wasn't a day and age where you could
just like extensively look something up like that online I mean obviously there were textbooks and that kind of thing
but even then I would assume the resources on something like bisecting somebody and draining somebody of blood
would be pretty limited I think it's pretty safe to say that this person already had the knowledge because they
had possibly gone to school right to get this knowledge and possibly maybe not the bisecting but I don't know you just
you almost assume that this person has done something like this before for it to come out that cleanly yeah you do
feel you get the sense that this is not the first go even if maybe on some kind of caver in the learning process I don't
know if that's how that works sure yeah I mean like this person and I mean if they're again where this is speculation
obviously but like if this is a surgeon who did this then it's like they've performed clean cuts on the human body
like obviously that kind of cut is like a very specific kind of cut um but who knows it's like that it's similar to
other things so amputations can be similar all right side tangent aside yeah um the victim had also been beaten
about the face and head um there was a ton of lacerations especially on her face and
head um and the thing that I think a lot of people really remember about this case including myself is that her killer
had cut her mouth from ear to ear creating a glasgo smile a a permanent really ghoulish looking grin
on her face essentially one of the most disturbing aspects of this case it's a very very disturbing thing to look at uh
it's it's horrifying it that's why like this is such a ghoulish crime scene because it's like
the there's so much shock to this crime scene one she's nude to she's bed she's been posed with her body in the right
place you know what I mean placements y but like away from each other to like showcase that she's two halves of a
whole and even again like off a little to the side with her arms up like she's posing for a photo and then to see how
horrifically she was beaten and cut and all kinds of things but also she's got this ghoulish smile on her face that the
permanent smile it's that has been chopped into her face it's beyond it's really beyond anything
you've ever seen um there was also a ton of superficial cuts and scrapes other parts of her body and there also
appeared to be ligature marks on her neck wrists and ankles now this is kind of important in kind of something that
you can take in many different ways obviously it could mean that she was bound when she was alive and was being
restrained which I fully believe can be the case and probably was the case but this could also be one of those things
where you say okay is that where she was hung upside down to be drained of blood
that would leave lature marks too that would leave ligature marks somewhere I mean her neck was also had leg lature
marks as well which to me says it was part of like a torture restraining yeah uh but but it also can have to do with
being hung upside down if that's the case if that's how it went yeah it to if you think too hard about all these
things all at once and you start thinking about what was happening during all this it can like [ __ ] you up like
it's just like thinking about what she went through yeah and you nobody knows how long she was going through one of
the things that I think about the most is that I it had to have been like hours and hours and hours if not days yeah
it's like it feels like it was at least hours and hours for sure so police ended
up Fanning out started combing the lot for any evidence they could get uh but there was really little to be found uh
what they did collect some of it was um like a paper cement bag with what they thought was small drops of diluted blood
on it okay um investigators theorized that these were these cement bags were what were used to carry both sections of
her body to this area um there was also tire tracks visible on the sidewalk and a slightly bloody heel print of a man
shoe this is good evidence yeah but according to former detective Steve hodell which becomes a very important
member of this case and we just talked about him in the Rodney ala case we did um according to him quote these two
important pieces of evidence were not secured or photographed by the on scene detectives which why there's no scenario
where that makes sense there are tire tracks and a shoe print why would you not photograph and they were not
photographed or secured no like bizarre those are important pieces of evidence M
that you can be the most important yeah like you can genuinely narrow down a Suspect with that [ __ ] you can tell what
kind of tire that is what kind of car it comes from you could tell what that shoe
is what kind of shoe that is how many have been sold in there a you can tell all that [ __ ] yeah lots but we're
just like LAPD yeah come on what are you doing but other than that there was really nothing else of note at the scene
and no means of identifying this body so she would ended up being labeled at first Jane Doe number one and
transported to the coroner's office um the next morning an autopsy was conducted by Dr Frederick nuar who was
the chief autopsy surgeon for the County of Los Angeles uh Newar listed the cause
of death as quote Hemorrhage and shock from a concussion of the brain and lacerations of her face my god um they
believed that that was all inflicted while she was conscious which means that Glasco smile was inflicted while she was
conscious and alive and those were deep Cuts think about like oh it tore open her whole face when they when you
looking from the side it's like her jaw has been removed almost that's horrific and it's Hemorrhage and shock from that
which is one of the most horrific things I can imagine she died in shock from bleeding from having her face ripped
open yeah there was an additional incision from just below the naval to just above the pubic area and several
smaller cuts and small bruises all over the body that were likely defensive wounds so she was fighting back for part
of this I'm sure there was also evidence suggesting that Elizabeth had been sexually assaulted um but samples taken
during the autopsy came back negative for the presence of sperm got it uh Newar at the time of death to be
somewhere within a 24-hour window before the body was discovered but he couldn't
be more precise than that cuz I mean there was a lot body drained of blood and has been mutilated in a way I can't
even fathom um of particular note though at least From nuar's perspective was how
precise the bsection was like we were talking about in fact it looked like it was actually um what's called a hemoc
corporectomy which is uh at this this time in the' 40s a relatively new surgical procedure that came into use
after World War II and it involved removing everything below the waist from a surviving person um as far as Newar
could tell the procedure had been done after death on on this victim who we now know as Elizabeth Short um and the
Precision with which it had been done really suggested that the killer or at least the person who performed the
bsection postmortem cuz it could be two different had some experience with medicine and surgery um Newar also noted
that the body appeared to have been thoroughly washed before it had been left in the lot which that's always so
creepy to me it says surgeon to me yeah because everything is clean you have a clean field you he's not going to go
through all of that to drain to drain blood and to bict in such a clean way and then leave it messy see yeah it's
just not something that I see happening this uh hemoc cor corporectomy that that
he's talking about um would be performed like it's like a radical surgery like it
is like Last Resort like all you have left kind of thing and what you have to do is you have to cut between two
specific lumbar vertebrae that makes it so that you don't have to cut bone okay uh and they have to like reroute the
spinal cord essentially and they have to reroute cuz because you're removing the
genitalia you're removing um any of you know the rectum the all that stuff so you're going to have to reroute many
different things many different things for a living person right um it's a very intense procedure a very complicated
procedure and again this person cut in the same spot that you cut for this specific procedure so that they didn't
have to cut through a bone which is strange and you I'm telling you you open up a body and you take a look at that
spinal cord it is not as simplistic as you think it's going to be to just chop through between a vertebrae you know
what I mean so it's got to be someone who knows what they're doing and has seen this before they didn't just open
her up for the time and just figure it all out right it's just not something they they've opened people up before and
they've seen what's going on yeah it's I I will die no um knowing the cause and estimated
time of death was pretty important but investigators they really wanted to know who this victim was like they were like
we this is the most important during the autopsy fingerprints were taken and passed along to the main offices of the
FBI and in their coverage of the story the day after Short's body was discovered the Los Angeles examiner
included a lengthy description of the of who the girl was um they were hoping someone would see this description of
her the physical description and come forward among other things though the examiner described her as between 15 and
16 years old nope wrong with enameled pink toenails and a 3 and 1/2 in operational scar on the right side of
her back she was also described as quote rather welldeveloped with small bones and trim
legs okay I'm like you want to it's a weird way to describe any other descriptors in there I'm like I don't
know if I would be able to be like well my cousin does have trim legs it's a weird way to describe someone you think
is 15 or 16 years old with trim legs it's very 40s okay very 40s truly fortunately for investigators once the
identification division of the Washington DC Office of the FBI got the photos of her fingerprints they found a
match within an hour uh they identified Elizabeth Short from their card file of more than 104 million possible matches
wow yeah uh shorts fingerprints were on file because she had uh filled out an application for a clerk position at Camp
cook in 1943 and there was a second set of her prints on file from that same year after she was arrested on charges
of quote violating juvenile court laws so now this dead young woman that they thought was 15 or 16 years old uh they
found out was 22-year-old Elizabeth Short 22 22 that is so young yeah I don't think it's ever hit me how young
she was 22 for some reason I always thought she was I'm still a young person obviously but a little bit older 22 Yeah
I think I'm also looking at it from a perspective of now being later in my 20s now you're older than her so now it's
like God you barely become an adult yet and she has lived a lot yeah she had a tough life right had tough stuff going
on yeah she was struggling now Elizabeth Short was born July 29th 1924 in the hide pack neighborhood of Boston kid hi
pack hide pack you say that's where the salon that I used to work at had its first uh ever location there you go
she's from our neck of the wood Boston she's a Boston gal um she was born to Cleo Alvin and and Phoebe short
and raised in Medford Medford Medford I said wait I'm going to Medford tonight holy [ __ ] get out of here Medford uh
Medford is a workingclass suburb about 10 miles outside of the city it's true it's true we can confirm I was just
going to say can confirm at the time of Elizabeth's birth um Cleo worked in construction building miniature golf
courses and you know other kind of attractions like that I didn't know mini golf was a thing way back then mini golf
has been around since the dawn of time we love to miniaturize things we do we do and I respect that out of I also
respect that um and when the stock market crashed in 1929 he became unfortunately unemployed and lost his
savings oh God it was really bad for a lot of people a year later in 1930 um Charlestown Police found Alvin's
car abandoned on a bridge and he was believed to have taken his own life by drowning in the child's River o but a
short time later it was discovered that Cleo had faked his own death and abandoned his family and moved
to California hate that not great hate that not great that's [ __ ] awful yeah that's real [ __ ] awful wow I feel
like I forgot that yeah there's so many parts of this case that you remember and
then there's so many little details that you're like oh my god do you even remember that and she was only Elizabeth
was only about 6 years old when this happened six but old enough that you realize it oh that's terrible this is a
big traumatic event [ __ ] you Cleo Alvin with Cleo gone phoeby short became the
Sole Provider for Elizabeth and her four sisters so and she was working as a bookkeeper with only one income the
family struggled but did manage to survive the depression without like an insane amount of hardship
she kept them afat during her childhood Elizabeth began experiencing chronic bronchitis and severe asthma which
ultimately required lung surgery at age 15 oh wow I I don't know if you remember
there was a scar mentioned by Newar um in the autopsy that was from that surgery on her lungs got it um following
her surgery the doctor suggested Elizabeth would be better off in warmer drier climates uh so she began spending
her winter breaks in Miami with family friends okay this was kind of like that TB thing like the tuberculosis thing
where they thought like we just stick you out you know on a balcony and you'll get fresh air like that kind of thing it
is better for your lungs um after three years of wintering in Miami Elizabeth dropped out of Medford High School
during her sophomore year and moved to Miami Beach and she quickly found work as a waitress on her own for the first
time she struck up a relationship with Major Matt Gordon Jr who was an Air Force pilot stationed at a nearby base a
short time later in January of 1943 Gordon was shipped overseas and Elizabeth decided to relocate to
California where she wanted to live with her father in valo oh so they reconnected they reconnected uh it was
during this period that Elizabeth worked as a clerk at Camp cook that's where the
fingerprints came from but her relationship with her father quickly became very strained oh and within a few
weeks she decided to moveed to Santa Barbara oh wow just weeks yeah it's her father told the reporter after after
Elizabeth's death I made her leave I didn't want anything to do with her or any of the rest of the family again huh
you're an [ __ ] that's wild to say just like you're a wild [ __ ] that's wild to say ever that's wild to say
after your daughter's death and that's wild to say after your daughter's uh gruesome death yeah murder murder
exactly what the [ __ ] can you imagine no I didn't want anything to do with my child again or any of the rest of my
family my other four CH daughters who are living on the other coast that's so [ __ ] you should have thought about
that before you had a family that's like wild douche Behavior truly um it was there in Santa Barbara that she was
arrested for violating juvenile court laws when she was picked up for underage drinking at a Santa Barbara nightclub
during her hearing the judge agreed to sentence to sentence her with probation provided that Elizabeth accept a train
ticket and return home to Medford Massachusetts and she agreed okay so she agreed to return to her mother in
Massachusetts but instead she chose to go to Florida ah once she was settled in Florida she resumed her correspondence
with Matt Gordon the air force uh pilot and in 1945 Gordon supposedly proposed they marry when he returned home from
active duty and despite only having met him in person a few times Elizabeth accepted it was lur
unfortunately this en enthusiasm was going to be shortlived because on August 10th
1945 his plane was shot down and he was killed in the that's so sad which is like another
traumatic event in her life she's 20 yeah now following Gordon's death Elizabeth found work as a waitress again
but within a few months she decided she didn't want to stay in Florida and she returned home to Medford
Massachusetts there she found work in a local movie theater and when she was back home she really didn't feel like
settled or satisfied like she thought she was going to feel she thought she was going to feel some kind of comfort
she really didn't she didn't love it here it's a hard time time too to figure out what you're doing in your early 20s
I think and figure out where you want to be yeah and she was moving back when we
her just heading into winter over here not the not the best time to move back here no um but yeah she wasn't feeling
that great she and she knew she didn't feel really satisfied in Florida either she was like so neither one of these are
working for me so on April 17th 1946 she packed up her few belongings and returned to California this time she
wanted to settle in Hollywood okay by most accounts it seemed like she struggled to find her footing in
California for a while according to Steve hodell Elizabeth was known to have lived as a transient at various boarding
houses with a variety of Roommates she stayed at a hotel in Long Beach for several weeks during the summer months
and then returned to Hollywood uh there once she got into Hollywood she kind of bounced around a
few times staying at different places and eventually she found an apartment where she lived with seven other young
women which w w I give you credit lived with like I know didn't she live with like four other girls when she was in
Boston yeah yeah it's true I think that was just like the easiest way to make it
happen yeah I mean we lived with a bunch of our friends in Quincy so I can't really yeah it's kind of I feel like
that's like the time that you do it yeah we were living with a lot of people so yeah might as well before you have kids
before all that stuff now during this time Elizabeth was barely getting by on her wages from her job as a waitress at
the Florentine Gardens nightclub uh in a few weeks before her death she had actually struggled to afford rent she
was really like at at her last few pennies so sad to think that like in her last days she was struggling as she was
yeah her friend Anne Toth told detectives two or three weeks before Christmas she said she was going to
Berkeley but instead of going to Berkeley she went to San Diego and she said just before Christmas day she sent
me a wire saying she was low on funds and asking me to send her 20 bucks she had been gone about 3 weeks when I
received another wire saying she was coming back and stating that a letter would follow this is the last I heard of
her the letter never came oh yeah and Toth may have never heard from her friend again but Elizabeth did returned
to Los Angeles on January 9th that evening she was seen leaving the Olive Street entrance of the builtmore hotel
and this would be the last time anyone but her killer would see Elizabeth Short alive MH Now by 1947 people in Los
Angeles had become pretty accustomed to seeing reports of violence in the Press but the story of Elizabeth shorts murder
was truly unlike anything anybody had ever seen the news of the discovery hit the papers that very afternoon and set
off a media frenzy and it's really due to what police historian Glenn Martin called quote the brutal misogynistic and
ritual nature that the murder contained I mean yeah now again it's true she hadn't just been murdered she'd been
mangled she had been mutilated I mean she had been posed she had been humiliated by being left naked and
exposed like that um there was clear evidence of what a Los Angeles Times Reporter called quote an orgy of torture
yeah that is honestly as as kind of like crass as that sounds it is exactly what
it seems to have happened here yeah no but again pretty probably a better way to say pretty crass um adding to the
sensationalism uh the members of the press were quick to emphasize the sexual undertones of the crime labeling the
killer as quote a sex Mania and a Sex Fiend which I guess you can somewhat understand because why you
focusing on only that yeah you shouldn't be focusing on only that but I can understand why they were saying he he
might have been you know I can understand that they're saying there's a very big sexual aspect of this crime a
very sadistic sexual aspect of this crime not hyper focusing on it but like my friends she was also drained of blood
bisected and given um a a glasgo SM glasgo smile like well I don't think we should focus on one aspect of this yeah
we should focus on all of it but as was common at the time journalists and law enforcement were kind of like
intertwined in each other's work and the Press would really play like just like the last couple of cases we've covered
play a big role in this case particularly when it came to shaping how the public viewed the victim and viewing
the potential killer once the victim was identified as Elizabeth Short the story
really picked up some more steam thanks part to the you know she was beautiful and she was very mysterious she was so
it it kind of it it was it lent itself very well to the time and people wanting to start salacious rumors and like dig
into people's past and oh I think she was dating all these men apparently she had she dated a lot of guys yeah it's I
mean you're in your early 20s and you're living in Los Angeles of course you're dating around she's beautiful she's
mysterious she's you know to find her footing there why the [ __ ] not who cares
the story quickly became what Martin called quote a sad cliche the ultimate warning tale Elizabeth Short had come to
Hollywood to become an actress but like so many young women before her she'd only found disappointment struggle and
ultimately death Hollywood is [ __ ] cursed man it is now within days of the discovery the Press began referring to
short as the black doia uh it was a reference to Elizabeth's you know she apparently love the flower the Dalia and
she wore one in her hair often and she also wore a lot of black clothing and she had jet black hair right so it's a
it's a very I it's a very good nickname for sure CU it it's mysterious it's got with you it's got like it's for the
Press it's a really smart one that they picked because it's like like we said mysterious it's easy to remember and
it's got this like sexy kind of undertone to it so they were really like going with what they were trying to wrap
up here going to sell papers exactly it's also possible though that they were influenced by the popular Noir film The
Blue Dalia which was released the previous year I'm sure it was like a mix of them regardless of where the name
came from it definitely added to the sensationalism and mysterious tone of the case and like we said that's the
reason why it it's part of the reason why it has so much notoriety today is that when it's easy to remember the name
of the case the black dollia murder it's easy to reference you know what I mean abut and
again like you said it's going to sell more papers which means it's going to sell more books which means it's going
to be something people want to talk about yeah it's just a catchy name it really is so like the crime scene itself
the canvas of the neighborhood offered really few Clues to guide the investigation one local man Bob Meyer
told detectives he'd seen a late 1930s model Ford Sedan stop in front of the lot around 6:30 a.m. that day and he
said it lingered near the area where the body was found before driving away H but
he couldn't recall any of the other details that's weird to me that seems like somebody who's dropping off a body
yep um fortunately for detectives the identification of the victim offered several New Leads because now we could
start connecting people to her uh so they started with her mother Phoebe and they talked to her oh poor Phoebe I know
investigators set out to learn everything they could about Elizabeth with Phoebe in the hope that something
in her background would help lead them to her killer Phoebe actually learned of her daughter's death when she received a
call from a Los Angeles examiner which was soon confirmed by LAPD detectives so she found out in an awful way according
to Phoebe Elizabeth traveled to San Diego a few weeks before her death and had found work with the Naval Hospital
there um she said she said she left Hollywood because of the movie Strike which made it difficult to get work as
an extra Phoebe didn't know why her daughter had returned to Los Angeles on the night of her disappearance and she
really couldn't offer any insight now given the seual undertones of the murder the investigation definitely turned to
Elizabeth's romantic life according to her mother Phoebe Elizabeth's only serious relationship was with Matt
Gordon uh the Air Force pilot who she planned to marry other than Matt Gordon Phoebe short knew really no other
serious relationships that Elizabeth had been in before her death her mother didn't know about serious relationships
but her friends and roommates definitely were like she definitely had some relationships but not serious yeah she's
around yeah um according to Los Angeles Times article filed shortly after her death she was known among her friends as
quote a girl with a different boyfriend every night good for her good for her uh
several roommates and others who knew her claimed she had a fondness for Sailors and often visited the nightclubs
where s soldiers were known to visit that was so of the time I [ __ ] the can I just say I [ __ ] love that oh yeah I
think it's great the aesthetic of that time that's the thing the aesthetic the aesthetic but not not what the vibe of
what was happening but like the aesthetic of the time is for sure aov yeah it really is um and uh her former
roommate Linda Roar said she was always going out and she loved to prowl the boulevard let's go girl let's go girls
in their interviews with their those closest to her investigators learned of several men they believe could have
played a role in her death of the men short had dated investigators were very interested in one boyfriend who
Elizabeth had confessed to friends she was quote deadly afraid of oh according to Elizabeth Elizabeth's
former coworker Cheryl meand there was a quote tall Sinister elderly man who approached her at a bar where she works
a few weeks earlier and asked about Miss Short's whereabouts H and mayong thought
it was possible that he could have been responsible for her death oh wow other roommates told detectives about a radio
announcer with a British accent named a morrice whom they had heard Elizabeth talk about a few weeks before her death
but they didn't know anything else about and I was like some of these guys you're
like wow I feel bad for you they're just like that guy a date with her yeah he's
like there were other mostly unnamed men who came up early in the investigation including a man in Beverly Hills who had
offered to pay Elizabeth's rent and another in San Bernardino who asked her to move in with him but those tips
really went nowhere they weren't involved they were just trying to trying to get with her so yeah so um and then
we have a lead detective on the case telling reporters she probably went too far this time and just sent some guy
into a blind berserk Rage that's nice and he called her a tease oh oh of course yeah it's her fault what was she
wearing uh to which I asked that man um so how many women have you chopped in half because they supposedly teased you
Jesus Christ you [ __ ] psychopath truly like what the who says that what are men what kind of blind not not all
of them but what are some men what kind of blind berserk rage makes you do that drain the blood from someone and perform
a highly complex surgical procedure what a dumb thing to say like he probably went into a blind berserk rage and then
went to medical school real quick and learned how to do that like that's the dumbest [ __ ] I've ever heard someone say
that's not a blind rage my friend that's a shameful statement she tortured that's
a shameful statement for so many layer one oh okay it's her fault she's a tease and two that's just dumb yeah that's
just a dumb statement don't be silly like that [ __ ] dumb yeah okay don't don't be a dum were you you what was on
the rewatch or no on scream scream yeah you're in a place of dumb [ __ ] lately some people that gu being a dumb [ __ ]
it feels like 2025 is just bringing out the dumb [ __ ] I don't know what we were so hopeful we were but you know
it's okay it's still great yeah uh in some ways in like one one way one way sure
yeah or another yeah one way or another uh but yeah go listen to scream if you want to hey you know anyway uh but yeah
that was that was a dumb [ __ ] thing to say um among the more promising leads though was a tip from another about
another former boyfriend Joseph Fickling who she met in California in 1944 like Matt Gordon Fickling was a
former Air Force pilot living in North Carolina and the two had been writing back and forth as recently as
Elizabeth's time in San Diego oh [ __ ] very very like recent to when she died yep Fickling told detectives she told me
not to write her anymore at San Diego and that she was in Chicago or that she was going to Chicago excuse me oh in
April 1947 Fickling started to suspect he was only one of Elizabeth's romantic interests well listen and that her
expression of love for him might have been disingenuous uh he wrote in April to her
you say in your letter you want us to be good friends but from your your wire you
seem you want more than that so she was just like playing the field she said I don't know she said I don't know I'm
like 20 I don't know I'm like 22 right now now based on the letters between them that investigators discovered among
Elizabeth's belongings Fickling confusion and Elizabeth's ambivalence eventually led to the end of their
relationship yeah um he wrote in one letter in your letter you mentioned a ring from Matt you gave no further
explanation I really don't understand I wouldn't want to interfere okay well he seems respectful
he does like that's a pretty respectful thing to say like hey you just mentioned
that another guy gave you an engagement ring so like I don't want to interfere in that I'm going to I'm going to B out
yeah the letters indicate that Elizabeth had told Fickling about her proposed marriage to Matt Gordon but failed to
mention that Gordon had died two years earlier okay that's that's an interesting play um it sounds like she
didn't want a lot from this man's romantically and that was the best way to go about it to let him down easy yeah
it does kind of seem like that yeah in an interview with Charlotte North Carolina detectives Fickling said he'd
last heard from Elizabeth in a letter dated January 8th 1947 the night she left San Diego oh wow and he hadn't
heard from her since and given that he was on the other side of the country when she was killed he was quickly ruled
out as suspect but they just got like a little more insight into what was going on in her life I guess a few days into
their investigation detectives learned that when she returned from San Diego Elizabeth had been traveling in the
company of quote an unidentified redhaired man h on January 20th detectives picked up 25-year-old Robert
Manley a Salesman the Press described as quote slender neatly dressed man with carrot hued hair not carrot not carrot
hued not Carrot Top over here and he was believed to have been with Elizabeth on
the night she disappeared uhoh Manley admitted to police that he had casually dated Elizabeth since first meeting a
few weeks before Christmas and that he had dropped her off at the builtmore the night she disappeared but he flatly
denied having anything to do with her murder uh he told detectives my wife and I had had some misunderstandings I guess
so I thought I'd make a little test to see if I were still in love with my wife so he picked up Elizabeth at a nightclub
and they hit it off first of all super disrespectful to your wife super disrespectful to Elizabeth to be a part
of a [ __ ] test unknowingly and third of all [ __ ] off yeah [ __ ] you you know what your hair is
Carrot hu okay Ginger all right okay noou all right your just died you have whatever
according to Manley he picked Elizabeth up at a Pacific Beach Motel on January 8th and drove her back to Los Angeles
but he had not connected Elizabeth with the stories in the papers and thus he did not come forward to the police I
don't know about that my friend I don't know sounds like you were doing another test to see if law enforcement would
contact you well investigators were also unconvinced by this yeah and they asked
Manley to take a polygraph examination and he agreed but after the long drive from San Diego and many hours of intent
questioning by police he couldn't keep from falling asleep during the exam and it was
postponed that's giving rude that's giving that's giving what that's giving sir how do you fall asleep under these
circumstan yeah be adrenaline would be shooting me into the Kyper belt I mean who knows how long they were questioning
him but if it wasn't for like at least 12 hours open your eyes well and the thing is here's the thing he was very
forthcoming with information regardless of falling asleep during the poly he was
very forthcoming when he was conscious when he was conscious he was forthcoming with information and he told police the
last time he'd seen Elizabeth he noticed several scratches on her upper arms H and she attributed to them to intensely
jealous boyfriend and she described him as an Italian with black hair who lived in San Diego okay so we're like who's
that guy yeah who is him so although he appeared to be telling the truth Manley's story was inconsistent with
other statements gathered by police particularly that of William Sullivan a Railway Express clerk who claimed to
have seen Elizabeth on January 14th according to Sullivan quote a woman resembling uh a woman resembling short
visited the office about noon on January 14th accompanied by a red-haired man and
inquired about shipping a trunk and some suitcases to ketchin hospital when asked
to whom the items were being shipped the woman said to herself and gave the name
Elizabeth Short okay the same couple was seen about an hour later by jadel gray a
waitress at Cafe in San Diego gray described the man as quote very fair complexioned and said his hair was quite
straight and he was slightly freckled okay sounds like a ging to me based on these witness identifications Manley was
beginning to look like a pretty strong suspect he sure was but the following day Sullivan admitted to detectives that
he had been mistaken in his identification of Manley and in fact did not believe it was the same person
Sullivan changed his story when police told him that another young woman matching shorts description had come
forward to say she had been at the Express office with her red-haired boyfriend on January 14
oh [ __ ] when he was shown a picture of the woman he immediately recognized her
as the one person he'd seen that night and remember he said that she used her name yeah so he just lied oh what the
hell like what the [ __ ] and with Sullivan's identification now recanted the mystery of the redhaired man proved
to be a dead end and Captain Jack Donahue ordered Robert Manley released from custody immediately all right now
only one week into the investigation detectives who had been certain that to finding Elizabeth's killer was in her
love life had now begun to accept the boyfriend angle was probably a dead end yeah they were going to find him in
there and that is where we're going to end for part one you butthead because we have some real suspects coming in part
two I know who they are and it's going to get crazy the story just gets Wilder as you go yeah this is a wild case I I
got a 99.9% opinion me too yeah so we will we'll definitely talk about that in part
two and yeah I hope in the meantime we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you
lie to the police about your whereabouts or test your [ __ ] wife in any way yeah [ __ ] touch me and don't call the
victim a tease oh a [ __ ] [Music] [Music]

On the morning of January 15, 1947, a woman walking with her young daughter spotted something pale and white lying in the weeds of a vacant lot. When the woman walked closer to get a better look, she made a horrifying discovery: the bisected body of a young woman, brutally murdered and like trash in the abandoned overgrown lot. The woman in the lot would soon be identified as twenty-two-year-old aspiring actress Elizabeth Short, who the press nicknamed “The Black Dahlia.”

Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!

References

Associated Press. 1947. "Mrs. Phoebe Short can't believe slain girl hers." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 17: 2.

Bartlett, Jim. 2017. The Black Dahlia: Los Angeles' most famous unsolved murder. January 8. Accessed January 14, 2025. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38513320.

Daily News. 1947. "Body of girl mutilated by murderer." Daily News (Los Angeles, CA), January 15: 1.

Federal Bureau of Investigation. 1947. Correspondence, Identification Division, FBI. Letter from R.B. Hood, SAC to Director Hoover, re: Black Dahlia identification, Washington, DC: United States Department of Justice.

Gilmore, John. 1994. Severed: The True Story of the Black Dahlia. Gardena, CA: Zanja Press.

Goffard, Christopher. 2024. "The killing of Elizabeth Short, dubbed the Black Dahlia, has inspired endless theories." Los Angeles Times, October 26: B1.

Hodel, Steve. 2003. Black Dahlia Avenger: A Genius for Murder. New York, NY: Arcade Publishing.

Lait, Matt. 1991. "Memories of murder." Los Angeles Times, June 22: B1.

—. 1991. "Search fails to turn up evidence of '47 murder." Los Angeles Times, June 23: B1.

Los Angeles Times. 1947. "Beth Short slaying suspect jailed after asserted admission of crime." Los Angeles Times, January 29: 2.

—. 1947. "'Black Dahlia' knife braggart terroizes girl." Los Angeles Times, February 5: 7.

—. 1947. "'Black Dahlia's' love life traced in search for her fiendish murderer." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 18: 3.

—. 1947. "'Dahlia' clues fail; inquest conducted." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 23: 2.

—. 1947. "Elizabeth Short case slayer baffles police." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 31: 2.

—. 1947. "Girl victim of sex fiend found slain." Los Angeles Times, January 16: 2.

—. 2004. "Janice Knowlton claimed a link to Black Dahlia murder." Los Angeles Times, December 19: B7.

—. 1947. "'Killer' fails to surrender in Elizabeth Short death." Los Angeles Times, January 30: 2.

—. 1947. "Mystery envelope sent in 'Dahlia' case; address book gives dozens of fresh leads." Los Angeles Times, January 25: 3.

—. 1947. "Police await second 'Dahlia' letter for clue to break murder case." Los Angeles Times, January 27: 2.

—. 1947. "Police free red-haired salesman as suspect in 'Black Dahlia' murder." Los Angeles Times, Janaury 21: 2.

—. 1947. "Police stumped in beauty killing." Los Angeles Times, February 2: 2.

—. 1947. "Soldier's 'Dahlia' date tale newest clue in slaying." Los Angeles Times, February 6: 2.

—. 1947. "Soldier's leave time checked in 'Dahlia' murder." Los Angeles Times, February 7: 2.

—. 1947. "Suspect detained for questioning in 'Black Dahlia' mutilation murder." Los Angeles Times, January 20: 2.

—. 1947. "Tooth cavities clue checked in beauty slaying." Los Angeles Times, February 4: 2.

Nightingale, Suzan. 1982. "Author claims to have found 1947 murderer." Los Angeles Herald Examiner, Janaury 17.

United Press. 1947. "'Sick' veteran is booked in Dahlia death." Fresno Bee, January 29: 1.

—. 1947. "Spurned lover is hunted in murder of 'Black Dahlia'." Fresno Bee, January 17: 1.

—. 1947. "L.A. Police hope Dahliua murderer will surrender." Sacramento Bee, January 28: 4.

Weller, Sheila. 2015. "The sins of the father." Dujour, June 01.

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

Molina and Ash discuss the Black Dahlia murder, Elizabeth Short's life, and the investigation into her gruesome death.

Key points

The Black Dahlia Murder. Exploring the infamous case of Elizabeth Short, known as the Black Dahlia.
A Shocking Discovery. Betty Buringer finds a mutilated body while on a walk with her daughter.
The Crime Scene Chaos. The crime scene was overtaken by reporters and photographers before police arrived.
The Ghoulish Crime Scene. The crime scene was shockingly horrific, with a permanent smile cut into the victim's face.
Elizabeth Short Identified. Investigators identified the victim as 22-year-old Elizabeth Short, shocking many with her youth.
Father's Callous Statement. Elizabeth's father expressed indifference after her gruesome murder, shocking investigators.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

What? Somebody did that to someone else?

Molina reacts to the horrific details of the case.

6:06WatchFeb 20, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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