11 Skulls /// Israel Keyes /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

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ashley.com esally For the Love of Home Twisted Mind of a serial killer Israel keyed left investigators stunned by
telling them he's a serial killer textbook serial killer he took pleasure in the act of
taking a life there is nothing probably greater than holding the power in control of
someone life and looking him in the eye and being able to control all that is intoxicating the serial killers textbook
serial killer Israel keys so just you describe the status of the case and the interest in Israel keys
right now yeah so it's uh it's an ongoing case obviously after Keys killed himself that um kind of changed
everything for us there's no longer a defendant there's no longer crimes per se to investigate like we would in a
traditional case um but we have unsolved homicides that we're trying to solve so
it's remained open um recognizing that he took so many secrets with him when he died um we've
really reached out to the public in various projects and news media type things trying to get tips people that
might remember seeing them or things like that um the caches we've usually talked about the caches in most of these
media things because we do think that they potentially hold Clues to some of his past victims um so that's ongoing
type strategy of ours is to hopefully make people aware that these cashes are out there and to you know if they come
across something they think might be one of his caches contact law enforcement immediately don't touch it don't
contaminate the DNA that might be in there that might be helpful to [Music] us today we have a true crime garage
round table on tap for all of you Nick and the captain with you of course but joining us we have Josh Hallmark who is
the host and creator of the True Crime [ __ ] podcast an investigative podcast aimed at identifying the missing
Israel Keys victims and also joining us we have Dakota and Joshua from the Somewhere In the Pines podcast which is
dedicated to locating the hidden caches weapons and kill kits of American serial
killer Israel Keys Israel Keys is a deceased serial killer we know that he killed at least three people he
committed several other known attacks and when he died in 2012 he left behind a huge mystery with potential additional
murder victims in fact there is much evidence to suggest that these three victims were not the only victims of
Israel keys and that there are other kill kits out there hidden and buried across the country that can still be
found we asked Josh Dakota and Joshua to join us to discuss the mystery of keys and to talk about a lot of the evidence
in this case suggesting that there are in fact additional victims tying keys to other murders will close out some other
cases how many well that remains to be determined at this moment let's go around the room and introduce ourselves
to the beautiful listeners Josh Hallmark why don't you tell everybody about your
podcast hey everyone this is Josh Hallmark I started investigating Israel keys in 2014 and launched True Crime
[ __ ] in 2018 it was intended to just be a one season exploration of Israel keys and now 6 years later I it's just a
deep dive investigation into all things keys with a specific focus on trying to identify his unknown victims and how
about the Somewhere In the Pines guys how's it going everyone my name is Dakota I I uh work with Joshua Ash on
the show Somewhere In the Pines and our focus is to locate the hidden caches of Israel keys to hopefully help identify
his unknown victims and hey everyone this is Joshua Ash we've been researching for the past three years and
physically searching for about the last year and a half um all throughout the Olympic Peninsula I'm trying to locate
any sort of signs or landmarks that Israel could have used to help identify where a cash would be well gentlemen we
are forced to reverse engineer this case Keys is caught and then this mystery starts to unfold for investigators and
the FBI in particular so we need to start with how did Israel Keys get apprehended and what for yeah so Keys's
apprehension is funny because the whole mythology surrounding Keys is he's the most meticulous thoughtful serial killer
ever and he actually got caught uh being pretty reckless and stupid he was arrested on March 13th of 2012 in Lin
Texas after he had used a missing woman named Samantha koenig's debit card at ATMs in Arizona New Mexico and Texas
while he was traveling from Las Vegas to his sister's wedding in Welles Texas essentially the cops were able to pull
uh ATM video from one of the uh ATM transactions found his rental car and the license plate were able to look it
up uh and track him to a motel in lein Texas they waited for him to leave and then pulled him over I think he was
going I think he ran a red light so they used that to pull him over and then immediately apprehended him they
searched and seized uh items from his car and in those items they found Samantha koenig's debit card cell phone
and other evidence from her abduction and so at the time they suspect him of this one abduction and murder but once
they learn more about Israel keys and some of the things he starts to tell them we find out that there is much more
beneath the surface here than just this one murder that he appeared to be on the
run from yeah pretty quickly you know Keys had said I think in his second interview uh following his arrest
alluded to the fact that there were many more crimes uh and that Samantha kig was
just the tip of the iceberg and the agents who were seizing his stuff and interviewing him were not surprised by
that it was clear to them that this was someone who who had been committing crimes uh with efficiency for quite some
time throughout the course of several interviews Keys LED on that there were other victims and he finally gave up the
names of two in April so just a month and a half later and those victims were Bill and lra Courier who had disappeared
from Essex Vermont on June 8th of 2011 from there keys would eventually insinuate that there were at least a 11
other victims in my opinion there are many more than that so to put this in perspective for our listeners here for
the folks that are not familiar with this case we have his first known victim which was taken from Alaska correct Keys
abducted her from a drive-through coffee stand uh the day before he and his family left to go on a cruise in
Anchorage Alaska she's working alone and then I believe he kept her captive on his property for some time well he kept
her on his property for some time he abducted her and essentially drove around Anchorage with her in his car for
I think two to three hours while he was waiting for his family to go to sleep when he felt like the coast was clear he
took her back to a shed in his driveway where he tied her up uh and assaulted her eventually realized that uh in the
haste of abducting her he had not gotten some of her items that needed specifically a debit card so he drove
back to her house uh went through her car got her debit card returned uh got the pin number from her to use at a
later date um as far as we can tell he kept Samantha alive in that shed for about 4 hours uh and then killed her
immediately went into his house showered uh and took his kid to the airport so they could take this family cruise but
he kept Samantha in the shed and his driveway for weeks while he was traveling in Texas Louisiana and the
Caribbean this attack and abduction and murder takes place in Alaska where he's living and then after apprehension
hundreds of miles away in the state of Texas he's confessing to a double homicide that took place the year prior
hundreds of miles away from Texas in Vermont and so I wanted to make that clear to all the listeners there the how
expansive his crimes and crime scenes and victims that he's Left Behind could be already trailing from Alaska all the
way out to Vermont and Josh could you break down what is known about his confessions and his interviews after he
gets caught yeah so you know he only ever confessed uh to Samantha koenig's murder and the murders of Bill and
Lorraine Courier but like I had previously mentioned he did insinuate or actually state that there were other
victims and it's interesting because I I think you could take these interviews in
many different ways one could be bragging but what he said that has always stuck with me is this is the
first time I'm able to talk about these things so I think while trying to not give them too much information he was
also very excited to talk about this other life that he had been living for 14 years it became abundantly clear that
Keys had rules about AB abducting and killing people and he didn't always stay true to those rules the first one was
never abduct or kill someone from your own backyard which he obviously did with Samantha Koenig and I think that's a big
reason he got caught eventually so you would see as the FBI started talking to him and going through his travel records
that he had traveled extensively in the 14 years that he claimed to be active so
98 to 2012 uh in that time he traveled to almost every single state multiple countries and he in addition to just
traveling away from his home base to commit crimes he would go to Great Lengths to muddy his travels uh so for
example when he abducted the couriers he flew from into Chicago rented a car drove from Chicago to Vermont abducted
them and then immediately left the area he drove to Maine so this became hiso it's something he bragged about to the
FBI how however we don't believe that this Mo was consistent across all crimes um I've talked to multiple criminal
psychologists and the general consensus is there were you know crimes of desire and opportunity and then crimes that
took place because he couldn't have the right victim or the right circumstance but was primed to kill so you know a lot
of the mythology surrounding Keys is he was super meticulous and he only lived by these rules and while they were rules
he wanted to commit crimes by they were often the exception and not the rule so let me just wrap my head around this he
confesses he's caught for a crime that took place in 2012 and then he confesses to crimes that took place in
2011 but you say that there's a 14-year period so during one of these interviews
he's alluding to the idea that he started 14 years prior what he says verbatim is when asked how long he's
been two different people he says 14 years you know unfortunately the language is a little bit muddy here but
they ask you know how long he's gone in between crimes I believe and he says three years while he was in the Army and
he enlisted in the Army in 98 which again corroborates that 14year period now there's some confusion about what he
means by that U whether the crime he committed in 98 was a murder or just an assault um which he does go into pretty
specific detailed accounts regarding an assault he committed he believes in 97 or 98 so you know there isn't Clarity
around when he began killing people but uh the the two lines of thinking are either 98 or 2001 uh so active across
the entire country for 12 to 14 years and the thing about Keys is he was sexually motivated uh he was bisexual he
said that once his daughter was born he stopped targeting children but essentially any American could be a keys
Victim Because He targeted men and women and occasionally children and traveled the entire country with the bill and
Lorraine Courier homicides out in Vermont what what do we learn about that because when you say he flies into
Chicago rents a car and then goes off driving several states away and finds two victims there were these two
targeted we we know that he had a murder kit that it's believed that he had a murder kit there that he had hidden
months or years prior so do we know for certain if these two victims were were chosen and watched for any period of
time or was he simply going to go to this area retrieve the kill kit and then go find a victim that is a great
question and I'll start with what we know for sure he buried a kill kit uh about half a mile from their house 2
years prior to abducting them he told the FBI that they were chosen basically because of the house that they lived in
uh that he had not chosen them as victims but was looking for a specific type of house to break into and to
abduct someone from and then there are a few lines of thinking one is that he's telling the truth I believe that he had
actually targeted this couple for some period of time prior to abducting them Lorraine Courier had told a friend that
a man had been watching her in the weeks leading up to her disappearance there are multiple sightings placing keys in
the area of their home in the weeks and months leading up to their disappearance
there is some reason to believe that keys and Bill Courier may have digitally crossed paths prior to the abduction so
you know I I don't want to say positively that they were previously selected by Keys um and I I know that at
least Josh from somewhere in the Pines does not necessarily agree with that um but I think there's enough compelling
circumstantial evidence to consider that he might have uh not just in this case but in several others pre-selected and
then targeted a victim for some time prior to abducting them we'll give Joshua a chance to weigh in here in a
second but back to if he was telling the truth that he was selecting a particular
home fill us in on why that is it didn't it have something to do with his his work history his what he did for a
living his expertise um possibly um and I I don't you know there's a lot of content I don't have it all by heart but
uh I don't recall him ever making that distinction but he did say that he was looking for singl story ranch style
homes with a single car garage and no other cars than the driveway he said that they were easier to get in and out
of um that it was more likely that there were fewer people in a home if there was
only a single car and that he wanted an attached garage so he could move the abductees from their home into their car
and leave the premises as quickly as possible without anyone witnessing that him that he would have a good guess at
the layout of the building or the house as well yeah that too and you know going
back to my theory or hypothesis that he had pre-chosen this couple he said that he walked from his Motel uh essentially
to their house and this was the first house that matched that desired description I've walked it many times
and there are many houses like that between his hotel and the Courier's home one of the things that's fascinating
about Israel Keys it it seems like you were saying he has this list of rules that he tries to follow so at some point
obviously he understood that he had these urges to kill and obviously then maybe he then goes on to study other
Killers do we have a definitive list of these rules that he tried to follow um is you know I I he never pulled up an
Excel spreadsheet put together his rules but yeah you know he he said never uh commit crimes in your own backyard
immediately leave the area once you've committed the crime one rule which we actually have no evidence that he ever
followed followed was abduct a victim from one state assault them and or murder them in a second state and then
bury them in a third state another was to plan his crimes in conjunction with travels so it looked like he would be
too busy to commit these crimes you know a great example is like I had mentioned
he abducted Samantha kig just hours before he went on a family cruise uh in out of Louisiana with the c years he
visited his mother days before he abducted them in Indiana and then visited his brothers immediately
following his murder of them in Maine so you know he he did follow the rules most
of the time he would turn off his phone he would stop using credit cards or he would use credit cards in a way to place
him somewhere he actually wasn't he would often book several hotels in different areas for the same night so
you know it was it was more of an ideal ology than a rule book but again the thing about Keys is he was more
meticulous in his planning than he was in the actual execution of his crimes yeah the so the one thing um about the
stocking stocking victims I think when Israel describes finding the house for the cers that a lot of that makes sense
uh in my eyes I'm also a contractor Dakota is also a contractor and Israel Keys was a contractor and you've worked
in these home we've worked in this style home so many times over the years that it's very easy to identify the lay of
the house from just the exterior um even like where the bath maybe there's a difference of where the bathroom may be
but you can even identify that by the roof um so I think the way that he describes it makes a lot of sense like a
typical serial killer that would go and have like the trolling phase and the stalking phase I think he mainly did
that more towards locations then towards uh specific people um just trying to find he said before that um he's always
driving around looking for good places to do stuff and I think that's really what his main focus was was to try to
identify a good something that he feels uh familiar with as a spot to abduct someone and then so we've reached out
we've been lucky enough to reach out to special agent Ted holla from the FBI and
we asked him specifically if there has been any any evidence that Israel has stalked any victims and they said
they've had zero evidence for any victims and then we also spoke with Julia CI from the consult she's a
retired FBI profiler and they talk a little bit about this in one episode that they also feel that uh he did not
stalk victims they they covered The Courier case and the Samantha con con case separately as two separate cases
not even realizing that they're tied together and they still said that they don't think there's any real connection
any stalking uh between them so that's kind of where um I get my point of view from and I think that probably one of
the the cool things about teaming up with with Josh and his team has been that we've been able to share these
different perspectives over a group of people that are very familiar with the case so we're coming up with like new
ideas all the time it's been I think a really good process uh having people challenge your ideas Back in Forth well
like you said he sometimes follows rules and sometimes doesn't so but it seems what you guys were saying is he studied
these locations and that was probably more important to him than the actual victim yeah I'm sure he the ideal
situation is he could have his his perfect victim um but I think the the overarching thing is finding a location
where he would feel safe and comfortable to abduct somebody and you know a lot of
things that Josh had just said about the garage having window access there's a fan in the window so he had access to
the garage very easily um he had a spot in the backyard where he could hide and I think just walking around the house he
was able to identify that you know this was an older couple what bedroom they were staying in because had a fan on it
was a really muggy night I guess really humid night um so I think it was I guess
another thing that is really important is the location where he found the victims compared to the location where
he was going to take them it was just three right-and turns very quick access to get out of that neighborhood on the
highway Into The Farmhouse where he eventually sexually assaulted them and then murdered them and that was an
abandoned old house correct that where he took the victims yeah yeah he said that he had um I believe I it was for
sale at the time and if I recall correctly he had seen a listing for it in a real estate
magazine and his his one form of torture he was going to use during that those assaults and the
murders was the having one victim witness the other victim he never specifically said that but I that's kind
of my opinion I believe that's a general consensus I'll let Joshua and Dakota weigh in on their thoughts this is
something that I think I find like super fascinating because the two times that he speaks about having a couples one
male and one female in both situations the male is killed premature of the actual plan that he had in place um
there's a couple that he took in Washington that he ended up hitting the male over the head with a with a shovel
to quiet them down or to hopefully just take them out for a minute but ended up killing them and then with Bill Courier
as he was assaulting um his wife rain he came down Bill Curry was trying to get loose and trying to fight back and
Israel eventually came down and shot him with a silencer just because he was too
unruly during during that time period so I'm really fascinated by what the actual
plan was and he didn't really get into detail of that yeah I don't know I I'm just super fascinated by what the
possibilities are there and and why each time that he described it both male victims were killed before the actual
event so Israel Keys has these roles that he's trying to follow and I think that makes them fascinating but the
other thing that's really fascinating about Israel Keys is these hidden murder kits can somebody explain these well I
think it's important to just in case people don't know to briefly explain what a cash is because I don't think
that everyone everyone knows this a cash is a stored container of goods hidden to
be retrieved and used at a later date so you usually relate this to survivalists
cashing food or a kind of like a gorilla wartime tactic of cashing weapons and ammo in this case we have a serial
killer that's cashing items used for abduction and murder um and he's cashing these items all across the United States
for him to retrieve at a later date the cash for example that was buried in Essex Vermont that was used in The
Courier abduction and murder that was that they were abducted in 2011 it was placed 2 years earlier and we believe it
coincides with another murder back in April of 2009 it was buried uh within the Essex City Limits very close to a
highway very close to apartments and hotels and you know big box stores things like that so it's it's these
things aren't way off in the wilderness somewhere they're somewhere very accessible for him to retrieve and use
in a in a very convenient way he left this kit in Essex there for 2 years came back for it and although it was uh the
the actual kit the the the container was never uh recovered by the FBI but Keys gave a lot of details on on this cache
and how he used it which was really important for our research and figuring out how he used these things and um what
exactly they role they played in his crimes so we have a ton of information about this cach and how we used it and
we were able to kind of look at so there was three caches that were recovered by
the FBI and so we were able to look at the three caches and kind of identify markers and landmarks that were similar
in each each situation and so when we talk about the kill kits these these caches have items for like I said
abduction and murder so we're talking about weapons knives guns ammunition then you have binding materials like zip
ties rope duct tape things like that and that would be considered the kill kit I
think that one thing that we kind of learned about this kit in particular was that the the kit in Essex in particular
was that it was in a wooden box and I'm not sure if I think I kind of feel like this shows his Evolution a little bit
when it comes to strategy is that when he came back to to get this box that had guns and ammunition in it and it had
been in this uh kind of wet land along the river for two years his guns were damaged a little bit they were Rusty and
so he had to take them back to his hotel which was only like a f minute walk or a
10minute walk away and so the this cash was extremely accessible it was right in
in the city and so he had to go and clean up his guns before he approached whatever house or person he was going to
approach to abduct and so after The Courier abduction he reburied this cash in a new container in another location
and that new container was a five gallon bucket with a sealed lid and so I'm not
sure if the box was just a container of opportunity at the time back in 2009 maybe it's the only container that he
could come up with at that moment or maybe this shows a bit of evolution where he realized oh I need a better
container to protect my the these materials so that when I get back to them I know they're going to be in
working order but so he Rees this cash after The Courier abduction and murder and in a five gallon bucket in Upstate
New York one thing that Josh and I uh Joshua and I have noticed is that this there's not only one type of cash but we
can get to that a little bit later if you guys want well in man cannot control Mother Nature so those Wetlands may not
have been so wet when he first put those items there to start with and then he learned along the way it's it's it's
interesting to go back and retrospectively watch and learn how these guys learn and adapt what it is
that they are doing to try to achieve their horrific goals with him being locked up so he
gets caught and we're kind of they're really hoping to pull a lot of information out of Israel keys they do
kind of uh it sounds like to me they did like a very mind Hunter sort of thing where they played toward the psychology
of the situation and of the perpetrator with the idea of oh well let's bring in a female agent and have
her kind of lead these interviews and steer the ship and maybe he will open up more to a lady rather than than a a male
agent yeah I you know he was first dealing with alasa PD when they got back to Anchorage uh and there was a
detective Monique doah who he had very clearly developed for lack of a better word a good rapport with uh he was a lot
more candid with her and chatty with her and so I think when the Anchorage FBI kind of took the Reigns I think that was
very critical and uh apt in their decision to put Jolene Goen as the lead FBI investigator on the case um as far
as we can tell he never developed quite that same rapport with Goden that he had
with do but I I have found that he is a lot more talkative when she is in the room yeah for for sure and I think that
um he actually requested early in the first couple interviews up in Anchorage actually requested to tell the story of
Samantha koenig's abduction specifically to detective doll and and didn't want many other people in the room and so I
think that was a big tell for the investigators to know okay he's going to open up to a female more than he's going
to open up to a male and it's interesting because I've heard a lot of takes on this that you know it was about
control or uh Rel living his experiences but I think it's much more simple than that this was a guy who was raised in a
household with nine women and then you know went on to have a daughter and multiple girlfriends and I just he
seemed to be just generally a lot closer to women because of the way and the environment that he was raised in so I
don't really think it has a great deal to do with controlling or reliving and more to do with just his comfort level
yeah if he doesn't feel threatened by the individual he might be more likely to be vulnerable yeah and he
even said that he liked talking to women um because he never really had to be himself and I I think that kind of came
into play here uh where he got to be himself for the first time with women in a way that I
think maybe gave him power but not in the way that we generally tend to think in male female Dynamics do do you think
that maybe he was or felt that a was going to be more affected or shocked by his retelling
sometimes I think maybe that's the facade I I you know I think he wanted to talk to women because he was more
comfortable talking to women but he wanted the people in the room to believe that it was about something else but you
know I I changed my mind daily on a lot of this stuff which I'm sure you guys do
too yeah the the confessions in the FBI interviews is is something that I am completely fascinated with here what do
you think we learn about him because like you just said there's there's a part of him that is also still playing a
game here I you know it's I am constantly struck by just the situation he's gotten himself into where he is
trying to maintain control but he's also excited to talk about these things and I
think that push and pull of his psyche is is one of the most evident and prolonged situations in these interviews
is this guy who is really torn between you know his internal desires and his need for control and it comes out you
know he'll say something and then he'll immediately be like oh [ __ ] I shouldn't
have said that you know not in so many words but he'll recoil or retract or change the subject and I think that's
what I am most profoundly struck by and and I guess viewing him as as a human and not a monster as you see these weird
idiosyncrasies and this weird dynamic where he's you know in conflict with himself throughout these entire
interviews yeah and Ted Ted holla we asked we asked Ted um if special agent Ted holla if he thought that Keys was
mostly honest in interviews or if he you know was thought kind of thought he was
a liar or just what his opinion of that was and I think that it was his answer was spoton which is it's very obvious
when Keys gets kind of backed into a corner where he doesn't he knows that they're talking about information that
is accurate and he doesn't want to go any further he he kind of recedes into himself and starts mumbling and you know
his body language makes it really obvious when he's either being deceptive or flat out line
yeah and I've spoken with and worked with quite closely doctors uh forensic uh and criminal psychologists doctors
ramsland and kungl uh and they both independently came to that same conclusion this is not a guy who's prone
to Fantasy this is not a guy who is a natural-born liar for the most part he is telling as much truth as he can
without revealing whatever cards he's trying to hold to his chest this message is sponsored by Greenlight
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Plan additional taxes fees and restrictions apply cement mobile for [Music] details and he enjoyed being cryptic
along the way it seems like like you said in at times when he when he's a little more obvious that's when he wants
to take the information back or or spin it a different way and I think I think it's some point as to the captain's
Point that he's playing this game right of I got a whole lot of information or some of it maybe even made up but I have
a whole lot of information that these people really want to know and if I deliver it in a certain way in a certain
manner I might just live forever right because people will continue to analyze this for a very long time and as I'm
sure you guys have seen and Josh you've pointed out on your show that some people analyze this and
really make something out of nothing and and he it and he but he left he opened that door to allow that to happen yeah
you know I agree and disagree I I don't I think that's his worst nightmare is people analyzing his words a nauseum in
a public setting like we're doing today I think that's his worst nightmare he his greatest thing with control was that
he didn't want people to know what he did or who he was I think he knew that the more he gave away the more likely he
was to become infamous and I think up until the end that's not what he wanted at all he wanted to quietly die in
prison without ever without anyone ever talking about him I named my show after a quote
from him where he said you know I don't want to be caught up in all this true crime [ __ ] so I think you know
that's what he wanted and why he was careful about what he was saying and I think his strategy was to be very
thoughtful and deliberate about the language he was using so that he wasn't necessarily lying but he was lying by
Omission or concealing things through language um because I think even he knew and it's abundantly clear to anyone
who's watched these tapes like he is a terrible liar yeah he he I think he was like kind of learning learning the
interrogation game I don't I don't he didn't go into it prepared for that I don't think he kind of handed Over The
Courier story on a silver platter when he didn't really need to I believe that he thought that the FBI was going to be
able to connect him to that abduction and murder when they might not have and so I think he definitely regretted that
later on um and so he was trying to figure out what information he could give and keep the FBI happy and get what
he wanted but he realized that he didn't have to give as much as he thought he did so we think maybe he thought they're
gonna find out anyway maybe I have a chance here to control the narrative and tell it my way rather than
how everything went down to the te yeah I think that and again going back to to you know his internal desires which is
like oh I can talk about this stuff so like I will control the narrative I get to talk about these things that I did
and brag about these things that I did only because I have a sense that you're going to find out anyway and you know he
talked about less than a dozen victims and I think that is very much a product of this I think he thought once the FBI
looked at his computer they could tie him to 11 victims now whether there were more is Up For Debate but I think that
what he went into those interrogations originally thinking like okay they have my computer who can they tie me to I'm
going to control the narrative it seems like a like a fine line too that he was walking because the the way I always
kind of took keys with the information that he was giving and what he was willing to talk about with the
authorities it seemed to me my opinion was that he wanted to tell some of these stories and some of the horrific acts
that he did that I either it being a form of confession or a form of bragging or maybe a a mashing of the two but but
then he also has this other side of him where it's like oh I my daughter one day
is going to hear these things my daughter at some point will become aware of what kind of monster and just how
disgusting I really am so it it feel I always thought he was like walking this weird very conflicting find line of of
what he wanted what information he wanted to give as well as what was going to be what people thought of him in the
end you can hear him actually grapple with that like in real time during the interrogations he talks about how he has
to get comfortable with actually starting to talk to people about these things because he's have cut them inside
his entire life um so it's really interesting like the the interrogations are absolutely fascinating it's like
over 30 hours where they'll just break down so many parts of his his crimes the arson the burglaries
the sexual assaults the murders and they'll get all these little tiny pieces here and there where he's kind of
speaking freely at one moment and doesn't realize that they it it doesn't seem like he realizes that they'll be
able to connect those things together later on down the line but then at the same time it's fascinating because he
will talk freely but he will distance himself like he very rarely says rape or murder or kill um and the few times he
does say the word rape he gets very sheepish about it and I think that goes back to like in many ways he was raised
to be the caretaker of his family and it's a role that I think I I will never know how he felt about it but I think
it's a role that gave him purpose and I think that comes into play when he's talking about these things where it's
like I want to talk about what I've done but I still have significant amount of Shame about it and I want to protect my
family and we could AR arue all day about the intentions of protecting his family but I do think some of them were
pure uh I I think he did care as much as someone like him can about the people in
his life and whether that care comes from narcissism or a more I guess typical care we'll never know it's it's
so bizarre because you get these guys and the the what they're willing to admit to and then the things the same
equally disgusting acts that they're embarrassed about where Sam little it he admits he tells police
and and investigators FBI that he murdered over 90 people but if you accuse him of rape he would get very
angry and very worked up and say I you know I I may have killed her but I didn't rape her you know he instantly
he's angry at the accusation that he would rape somebody all these interviews and and and confessions and cryptic
messages and what have you all leads up to his event ual suicide Israel Keys suicide yeah his his body was found um
at 5 557 a.m. December 12th 2012 and basically what happened is that they found him in his cell with a razor blade
that was attached to a pencil I believe and he used that to slid his wrists and he also tried to hang himself with his
uh with his sheets I believe there's a great article um let's see if I can find it here it's the the untold story behind
Israel Keys is jail house suicide and it talks about that's from the Anchorage Daily News and it it talks about how the
doc officer was actually removed from position after they found found the body because there was alleged that the
officer was reading a book only 25 feet away from keys while he committed suicide so I'd read the article because
it's it's super interesting but so Israel Keys had been hinting at suicide for a while during the interrogation
saying things like I don't need you um like I can I can do this on my own and he was getting very tired with the
cumbersome Pro legal process and it seems like it was more just a an opportunity where he was able to find a
razor a disposable razor and then eventually kill himself and what they call a ritual ritualistic suicide now
one of the strangest things maybe the reason that they call it a r ritualistic suicide is that he wrote in blood on his
cell wall and he wrote the word caracle in big letters and lot across the cell wall now this is also we've confirmed
this in the case File we know it's it's it's kind of been up Tob up for debate whether it was whether it was bise but
caracle is a spot in bise we're kind of excited because we're going to be speaking with the retired FBI profiler
Julia K about about a suicide note um because he also left a note that they found underneath him that was you can
kind of piece some of it together but some of it was erased by his blood so we're going to sit down with her and go
over the the suicide note and how that relates to caracle and also on October 20th we'll be at the Burkshire podcast
Festival so plug for you Josh um releasing a brand new piece piece of information that will be connected to
everything that we're super excited about but what was found in his cell so he commits suicide in his cell what do
he find in his cell uh basically just him there was only thing that was left in his cell was just a typical item in
cell and then his body with the suicide note and the writing on the wall so that's the only thing that was there was
no other items discovered other than the the razor that he had snuck into his cell but there is some misconception
around uh other materials taken from a cell prior to his suicide yes that's correct um so in July of of uh 2012 they
actually found 12 drawings in his cell uh 12 individual drawings 11 of them were
skulls that were basically finger painted in blood they each had an upside down cross on their forehead and then
the 12th drawing was actually a photogra a drawing of bamet with an upside down pentagram and on one of the skull
drawings it had the words we are one but that was not actually those drawings were not found when he committed suicide
those drawings were found months before and that's basically around the time that he started Ed to hint that he he
would just take his own life instead of going through the legal process so we have these drawings found before his
suicide they go into the cell they find him they find a suicide note and then a writing on the wall do we have the
information of what was in the suicide note and what was written on the wall yeah the suicide note has been released
to the public um so you can look that up online and it's more of a it's less of a
suicide note and more of a note about how much he hates America and Americans is is the way that
I view it he also he did write what the FBI is calling a suicide note or more of
a goodbye note uh to his family and that was recovered again as well much further
before much earlier before his um his actual eventual death um so this this suicide note was more of a goodbye
letter to his family kind of letting them know what roughly what had happened that he did do these things and then a
new piece of information that the FBI told is that he there were actually two separate letters so there's the goodbye
letter and then there's also a note that um special agent holla described as a really odd document it's in all block
letters and it basically starts to describe all of his victims and uh what he did to them in very graphic detail um
he described well let me he doesn't describe all those victims he describes six victims and they believe that he was
interrupted while writing this note so Unfortunately they don't have the full details of all of his crimes um but in
this document it's basically just goes into extreme detail and there's no evidentiary Val evidentiary value listed
it's really just kind of uh I don't know if it's just for his own personal use or
something that he was eventually going to give to the FBI what what's really telling about the um the skulls the and
the timing of that is you know the doc the Anchorage and the oversight within the prison was it seems like not it
wasn't done very well I mean a source i' I have a source um that worked for the Anchorage Doc and he told me that after
uh Keys was able to commit suicide that the doc re restructured how they do sweeps how they do cell sweeps and he
referred to some of the old protocols as archaic um he I have him quoted as saying I don't think we had the
infrastructure to deal with someone like Keys just the fact that he was able to you know these these skulls were
drawn months before his suicide meaning that Keys was able to self harm long before he actually took his own life in
December of 2012 this Source in the doc uh says that we would be shocked to know
what kind of Contraband is floating around in prisons and he he referred to describe things like drugs weapons
drones convection ovens pornography and the list just kind of went on and so it's not a stretch to think that Israel
could have gotten his hands on the items he needed to commit suicide and I think
that once he realized that he could gain access to those items that that's when the interrogations with the FBI started
to really break down and he realized that he didn't need them to be able to accomplish his goal well the FBI seems
to be pretty clear about their findings and their their statement to the general public
about these writings that were found under his body in his cell that they had to clean up because it's covered in his
blood at this point their statement is the FBI concluded there was no hidden code or message in the writings further
it was determined that the writings do not offer any investigative clues or leads as to the identity of other
possible victims and we we've been given a little kind of insight into some of the writings that haven't been released
and it sounds like that there possibly is some investigative value in that he he um is had talked about some scenery
at at specific locations things like that they would they would at least not maybe not identify the location you know
completely but it would at least give you some sort of um guide or or um bullet points to to investigate by to be
like you know if he describes a certain piece of scenery that you know okay you can you can eliminate some of these
other locations things like that so I think that there is some value in those writings do you believe the suicide was
just to not go through the process to not be in a cage or or was it maybe also that he knew the longer he was there the
more information he'd be giving law enforcement I think it's both I think that it's a control uh has everything to
do with control I think that he knew that he was the longer he was in there and talking to the FBI the more
information he would give up um also he uh at one point said that he was never planning on going to prison he
thought for sure that he would be killed before he was arrested also the timing of the suicide is interesting to me for
that reason because I want to say two weeks before he died by Suicide he was scheduled to help the FBI do a ground
search and Upper Lake where he claimed that he buried one of his victims he did not show up to that meeting uh so they
rescheduled and I I believe the date that they had rescheduled to do this search was uh would have been the day
after he died by Suicide so I've always been curious about whether that timing was specific and intentional a block
letter note um it did describe the murders of William and Lorraine C Courier and also Samantha kig so they
know that it was directly connected to to specific murders that he had done and as Dakota was just talking about how
there is some evidentiary value in them there's also a description of another uh
female that was taken who had a a who had a very rich grandmother and an old copper or maybe it was an old Rich
grandparent I could be wrong in that but no it was a a wealthy grandmother and an
old make car old make sedan I forget the specifics but yeah it was there were two
I don't know if Clues is the right word but indicators of of a victim let's let's talk possible victims let's just
go round the table if you had to guess how many victims do you think Israel Keys had I mean my specific opinion
changes all the time but I I would say I generally believe there's probably between 15 and 25 yeah I I I go all over
all over the place with it I don't I don't I can't land on a number really I know that you know the the FBI landed on
11 but they they did so in kind of an arbitrary way Keys knows that the FBI landed on 11 and then he draws 11 skulls
you know there's a lot of conversation or or different points of view on you know the 11 skulls and what that meant
you know was he just kind of trying to confirm that for the FBI and make sure that they stuck to 11 does it actually
represent his his full catalog of victims or um some people say it even represents his family like his you know
brothers and sisters and things like that you know it's very possible that he was just kind of toying with the FBI and
and saying yeah you landed on 11 in this kind of silly way um because he never actually said it I I don't I don't have
a number okay so question so is there a possibility that Israel Keys believes that they thought there's 11 and then he
drew the 11 skulls is that what you're stating that's always been my opinion yeah that's a high possibility and then
so we have 11 skulls and one pentagram basically what do you think this means the 12th picture was a picture of both
um the horned goat you might remember like I think it was on the cover of a Stephen King novel at one point that's I
think where I first saw it when I was a teenager or something like that but so people think that that represents him
and then the 11 skulls represent his victims and so it's very possible that he was just trying to confirm 11 with
the FBI yeah I kind of am sticking with 11 until we have more information I I do
agree with Josh though that I I think that Keys thought that they could find 11 victims on his computer so that's why
he's stuck with 11 but until we have more information it's hard to really it's very easy to be like oh we killed
tons of people you know he said things like you know uh Canadians don't count you know things like that that would
make you think that he killed a lot more than he did but I think the thing that is really exciting about this case is
that there's so much information out there that eventually we're going to get to a point where we can figure out one
of his patterns I think once we figure out one specific pattern I think it's just going to blow the entire case open
and we'll be able to really tell how many victims he really had [Music] so much more to get to so many
fascinating things so much to unpacked make sure you join us back here in the garage until then be good be kind and
don't matter [Music] now two pigeons beoning the fact you can stream Direct TV satellite free these
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11 Skulls /// Israel Keyes /// Part 1

Episode: 788

Part 1 of 4

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Israel Keyes was an American serial killer. Keyes is now deceased but when he died he took many of his deep dark secrets with him. He truly was a predator with no boundaries. He killed in several states and is suspected to have done so in others. That is the mystery of Israel Keyes. It’s not just about how many victims but where and when. Questions that the F.B.I. are still working on years after Keyes’ death. The Garage is a podcast with no boundaries. We called upon Keyes experts from across the country to talk about the mysteries that Keyes left behind. This week we are joined by Josh Hallmark from the True Crime Bullsh** (bullshit) podcast. Also joining us is Dakota and Josh from the Somewhere in the Pines podcast.

Episodes 3 & 4 will be available very soon on our guests’ podcast feeds.

Episode #3 - True Crime Bullsh** - season 6 coming back from the break

Episode #4 - Somewhere in the Pines - S01E06 LaPlace, LA

Make sure to check out both and follow the Garage on socials @TrueCrimeGarage

Thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend, cheers!

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Brief Summary

Israel Keyes' case is examined, focusing on his methods, hidden caches, and potential victims, featuring insights from true crime podcasters.

Key points

Make the Switch to Sling. Tired of paying for channels you don't watch? Customize your TV lineup with Sling!
The Mystery of Israel Keys. Explore the chilling case of Israel Keys, a serial killer who left behind a mystery.
Unsolved Homicides and Caches. Investigators continue to seek answers about Keys' unsolved crimes and hidden caches.
The Importance of Location. The killer prioritized finding safe locations over the victims themselves.
The Kill Kits. Discussion on the killer's hidden murder kits and their accessibility.
Psychological Dynamics. The killer's conflicting desires during interviews reveal his complex psyche.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

There's nothing probably greater than holding the power in control of someone's life.

A chilling reflection from a serial killer about the act of taking a life.

2:26WatchSep 25, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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