11 Skulls /// Israel Keyes /// Part 2 | Forensic Files

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Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life Twisted Mind of a serial killer
Israel keyed left investigators stunned by telling them he's a serial killer textbook
serial killer he took pleasure in the act of taking a life there is nothing probably greater
than holding the power and control of someone's life and looking him in the eye and being able to control all that
is intoxicating the serial killers textbook serial killer Israel Keys yeah so my understanding is there's
a letter that he had written to family and it reads like a goodbye letter okay and then they found this 10-page
document um it's very unique it's written all caps no punctuation no paragraphs so and in it he's giving a
first pan firsthand account of victims as he's killing them um extremely graphic one of the most disturbing
things I've ever read my whole career um and there's six victims that are described and it looks like during the
last description he's interrupted so he's he hasn't finished but that's all we [Music]
have is there uh a case out there in the True Crime world that you believe is connected to Israel keys that like a
popular case that maybe people would know yeah you know there's and I am not certain of any I you know I have a list
of potential victims and there about a dozen where I think there's very very compelling circumstantial evidence but I
always say shy of physical evidence these are all just theories or ideas or conversations you know the the victim
that I think is the most plot plausible is not a well-known case it's a man named Jimmy Tidwell but of the
well-known cases too that come up a lot are Susie Lyall and Lauren spear yeah Susie Lyle has always been probably my
top case that I feel like is connected to Keys just based on the timing of his enrollment in the military yeah he was
in the area at the time he had searched her case um there's a very credible sighting of him in a parking lot less
than a mile from where she disappeared um approaching some woman late at night we don't know which parking lot but we
know that Susie ly disappeared from a parking lot in the middle of the night so I I and that I mean that's just like
the tip of the iceberg with circumstantial evidence there's a ton but the fact that we can place him in
the area at the time and his her name is on his computer is very reasonable evidence for me and then Lauren spear
was a victim at the University of Indiana do we have any eyewitness sightings of keys in that area at that
time not at that time uh we do have sightings of him in the area several years prior which is interesting and
kind of does correlate to his known pattern uh you know going out and burying a cash in Essex Vermont two
years before abducting the careers from Essex Vermont what's interesting to me and I know this is a very polarizing
case and a polarizing Theory but Keys flew into Chicago on June 2nd of 2011 and then immediately disappeared we
can't really Place him anywhere until he arrives at his mother's home in Northeast Indiana a town called Harland
outside of Fort Wayne on the evening of June 3rd depending on when he landed and
we don't know for certain we have some ideas but he was missing an action for anywhere from 24 to 36 hours in that
time Lauren spear disappears from Bloomington Indiana key said that he often would look at articles or you know
try to check in on his victims and see where the investigations were going but he would never which is not true but he
said he never Googled them by name what he would do is Google a location and a date uh when his computer was seized he
had Googled missing Indiana June 2011 when talking about the careers he continually says he'll talk about what
happened after he abducted them but he will not talk about what happened prior to their abduction on that trip which
which would also correlate to Lauren Spear's disappearance she disappeared just a week before the couriers that
stands out stands out to us as well um we actually as asked the FBI about that specific thing because he said that he
won't talk about anything before the specific date of the couriers which would offer up that entire week that he
we didn't know if he was talking about he didn't want to talk about the entire week beforehand or just any crimes in
the Years prior to that um and the FBI basically said they don't really know but it could open up the possibility
that you know he he actually critted crimes out through Indiana Ohio Pennsylvania New York and Beyond well
we've actually worked with local law enforcement and they are very collaborative with us or I guess as much
as they can be and they've said they have not been able to see keys or anyone who looks like him in any of that
footage however there was a uh I believe a ping on Alaska phone in the area at the time and two other cases uh in the
True Crime World Brianna Matlin and Mara Murray I know the FBI has asked about Key's involvement in there and they've
they've ruled out his involvement in the maand case but they would not rule him out as a possibility in Mara Murray's
case yeah it's interesting uh they ruled him out of the maelin case uh based on a
financial transaction and we don't know much more about that it was not in any of the uh Case Files that we received I
would like some clarity around that of the two if Keys is involved I think maand matches Theo much more he used to
drive the road that she disappeared from and her car was found on all the time it's the road that connects his cabin to
his family's cabin we have received some potential evidence that could place keys
at his cabin in Upstate New York the day after Mora disappeared um travel records
have him flying into Salt Lake City I think a few days before and departing from Salt Lake City a few days after we
don't really know where he is in the interim um so this newspaper found at his cabin dated the day after Mora's
disappearance I think is interesting I have always been firmly against Mora being a potential Keys victim but I am
now open to it I guess in terms of at least continuing to investigate only to rule her out but at this point finding
that newspaper kind of changed the game for me um and I think there is some some
stuff in her case that does align with things we know about Keys including cars he drove at the time or cars he had on
his property at the time I would say one argument probably against that is that he I think it was during The Courier
trip is when he said that he was starting to feel like he wanted some attention and notoriety for what he was
doing and he started take things started take on a little more risk um and the more case is just such a massive case I
I can't imagine that that wouldn't have fulfilled that need um beforehand what's
interesting though is it didn't really become a like a national news case till much later because I looked into this I
I did a bunch of Google Trend analysis and like Mora Marie didn't really make it into the American lexicon until 2010
2011 yeah and it would have been way bigger after that after his suicide yeah in fact she she she became more of a
true crime household name after her disappear disappeared uh episode came out which I think was in 2011 or 2012
what is the importance of finding these additional kits well I think it's probably the most important thing
because we feel it's the we feel and the FBI feels it's the best way to locate a
victim they believe that he kept souvenirs in the kits so it's opportunity if we find one to be able to
give that to the FBI and then let them go through and look for any DNA or any sort of souvenirs that he may have left
Left Behind how do you guys go about searching for these just close your eyes and walk
through the woods just just kid it's yeah sorry dakot is this is this where you're
supposed to yeah there's a lot a lot to the process and uh there's a lot of research that goes into it um as Josh
joked we get we get [ __ ] on a lot as if we're just uh kind of hustling through
the woods expecting to find something and that's really not um how we operate but uh like Josh said it's we think it's
super important to find something like this to um be able to match evidence to an unknown victim and we think that
there's a there's plenty of information in the case File and in the interrogations that we can kind of
analyze you know his his behavior his the way he talks about things to be able to figure out how he operated the Essex
cach is a perfect example of that he told this whole the whole story from basically beginning to end of how he ACC
how he when he hid the cash how he accessed it what he used it for when he rear when and where he reburied it or
rehit it and so we have all this information of how he operated with these caches and if we pay attention to
his timeline and his movements throughout the years you can start to put a picture together of where cashes
might be based on his activity and they also have a few caches that Israel LED them to led the FBI to so we have been
able to go to these locations and actually view the sites to look for landmarks to be able to compare them to
other other sites oh well one thing I want to point out is that speaking with special agent uh holla he you know we
agree with him that he brings it up and he's very motivated in in the fact that he believes that the public is going to
be our best resource in finding these caches because um it's very possible that they've already been found or will
be found and they just need to be reported through the proper channels to be connected to the case um and so we
think that that's a that there's a good you know possibility there that you know
members of the public can help us connect these things to the case so if you found something like
this you need even if you've already reported it to local law enforcement make sure to report it again to the FBI
um so that if it is one of keys caches we can connect it and hopefully use the evidence to identify other victims and
that's already proven to be pretty fruitful um you know we've had a few tips that now after the the guys have
talked to the FBI uh We've find even more credible um and I don't know if you guys want to talk about that further
basically whenever we started to team up with with Josh and his team we were lucky enough to start sharing
information before we even formed a partnership and one of Josh's team members Kim K she brought Josh a tip
that he gave to us and we gave to the FBI and it end up turning to the biggest piece of evidence that has been released
since Israel Keys killed himself so and we will be releasing that in our next episode where're doing a joint episode
um we'll be releasing that episode uh right after the show so definitely come and listen I I was just going to say
well a that's the cool thing about this is you know you have three different groups who are you know probably the
three most informed groups on Keys all working independently well up until a certain point who see things from
different perspectives and glom onto different details and are doing wildly different investigations and then those
three groups all came together and we found the biggest piece of EV evidence in the keys case since his death and I
think that really speaks to the power of collaboration just how great it is that
the guys made this connection you know deep connection with holla and then my team independently was doing work and
once the three of us all shared you know the separate pieces of information we had we were able to confirm and
corroborate uh and find something Monumental it's really cool and then second you know I had gotten a tip a few
years ago about woman who believed she encountered keys with a cash um and the guys took that to holla and that is you
know it's not quite as fruitful yet but we are able to kind of move along and and at least investigate that with a
little more credibility yeah and it just it just really shows like how you know in in a real-time investigation that the
teamwork and the collaboration can totally change the trajectory you know of and the ress of
thisa of any case but you know this is our case that we're working on and so it just shows that you know there's there's
so much information out there to be uncovered and we're all looking at it from a different perspective and with
different talents um and if you bring all that stuff together I mean we can I really feel like we can make some big
progress so the list of potential victims is unfortunately rather long but there were some that I were a little
more interested in than some of the others in particular Washington State and Joshua and Dakota that's kind of
your neck of the woods and it it it sounds like their suspicion that there could be as many as five potential
Israel Keys victims in Washington state so the FBI believes there are actually Four not five so they they do have they
think that he killed somebody else while he was still living in Washington and that was his first victim they believe
it was between July 2001 and October 31st 2001 but the murder didn't take place inside the state of Washington but
they don't know what state it was they just know that it wasn't in Washington the four victims um that they think most
likely happened around the 2000 to 2005 to 2006 area two of the victims have been described as a couple which I
talked about earlier um it's it's unknown at this point how they were connected they did ask him if they were
um you know in a a married couple boyfriend girlfriend a partnership of any sort and he he didn't elaborate on
that but we know it was a male and a female and that they went into a hole and that the male was killed with a
shovel and as I said before it was another premature um quote unquote premature death um he was trying to keep the the
victim quiet uh the female he said was stabbed and strangled strangled they believe that those two victims were
killed in Eastern Washington um and they have kind of a time frame that they believe that's happened but um I'd need
to confer with Josh about a few things before we we get into the details of that um and then the two other victims
he was able to uh purchase a boat from his wife's ex-husband he talked about disposing of two victims from this boat
they he thinks they think that the victims were placed in two separate locations two separate Lakes one they
believe was Lake Lake Crescent and uh Josh was actually given access to go and search that lake so I'll give him some
time to to speak about that it's really exciting but he submerged that victim with
of concrete that he had filled and and submerged them in the lake and they believe that the other victim is
potentially in Lake hosette but that is all just speculation for right now that's just a place that he visited very
often and he was really interested in very deep Lakes one thing that's important about the Washington victims
is during one of the interrogations they're trying to decide on how the Washington victims could be a federal
case and at this point Israel had already known that transporting a victim across state
lines would be instantly a federal crime so during the conversation he's trying to figure this out and so we asked
special agent Hull about that it sounds like all four victims were actually taken in Washington not from out of
state and they don't know for sure where they resided only that they would that they were taken while they were in
Washington state which makes the way that he hunted early on and tried to get victims early on his career was by going
to Trail heads and Parks um it makes a lot of sense that you would run into more tourists in that area too so it
would probably confuse things even more if they go missing by by national park or something like that um so yeah they
think all four victims were taken in the in Washington not brought from out of state what about possibly connecting him
to these murders in boo ratton Florida that that was a case that we covered on True Crime garage a long time ago where
somebody was abducting people from the parking lot of a popular shopping mall down there and
it's believed that that there were three I think there were three attacks and abductions in total but in two of the
situations resulted in murder and one of those cases was a double homicide is there is there anything connecting him
to those murders down in Florida or or is keys I imagine in a lot of these situations it's like in Ed Edwards
situation where some somebody's saying like oh there's you have these 10 unsolved homicides
that took place scattered throughout the United States well it must be is real keys I looked into this pretty
extensively only because I had just seen it coming up over and over and over again and I was pretty skeptical about
it from the jump it just nothing about it matched K's known Mo these are often exceptions to the rule he doesn't live
by these he often will you know engage in crimes of opport opportunity or in in crimes of immediacy but I I just don't
see him committing non-sexually motivated crimes in Big City centers in broad daylight
surrounded by lots of people just none of that matches anything we know about geese or the way he intended to operate
that said there are some sketches that look a lot like him uh but you know for two of them we can't place keys anywhere
at the time that they occurred but for one of them and I always say with keys like anything is possible but in this
case it would be virtually impossible for him to have been in Florida when the attack occurred um you know like I said
he's tricky uh but it would be very very challenging for him to be in that parking lot when the attack occurred
just based on where we can place him surrounding the attack so Israel Keys is he baffles me because we don't have a
type of victim it seems like to me and then there's this other speculation that maybe he killed children so that makes
things a lot more difficult yeah um the kids thing is interesting and again you know as we talked about he's not really
a liar per se um or when he is lying he's very bad at it he said that after his child was born he he didn't go after
kids anymore and I believe that as much as you can believe anything out of a serial Killer's mouth um he did say in
one of his last interviews that he knew he was losing control later on in his criminal career because he doesn't
usually go after kids maybe that means he put a child at risk or entered a home with a kid or maybe that means he
actually planned on or did Kill a Kid later on in his criminal career but I would say again those are exceptions I I
do believe that he probably did not kill kids for the majority of his criminal career his Evolution like we're talking
about 14 years here and so you know his definition of what a kid is could have changed throughout that time you know he
he you know when he starts this he's a young man so maybe his definition of a child at
that point was different than it was 14 years later I hate to harp on this but I
think it's one of the most fascinating fascinating Parts about the case is the the skull drawings and the
pentagram can we just go around the room just just to get a clear sense of because you guys I I'm guessing have
different differing opinions on what this means or if it means anything and and and speak on the the
skulls the pentagram and the um the one skull that says we We Are One um I'll start since I I'll probably be the
quickest I think it it means something and it means nothing I think the number is just [ __ ] I think he's feeding
into the FBI's Narrative of 11 victims I think the there is meaning to you know the idea behind it the the
blood and the skulls and the We Are One um and and I'm sure the the guys will elaborate on that but I I I think the
number of skulls that he painted is is fairly meaningless I I I tend to agree with
Josh about the number I think that you know he's he's uh letting the FBI believe what they want to believe as far
as the number of victims as far as like the the the visuals that this produces he's he I I really think that he's
trying to instill some like deeper meaning to his actions he knew knew he was a you know a murderous piece of [ __ ]
and that he was trying to like make himself seem more you know mystical or mysterious than than he really was um I
I tend to think that uh you know it was a it was kind of a last ditch effort to to be important I don't have much to add
to that but I will say that when we release a new piece of evidence on October 20th um we we are really excited
to bring that component into the conversation with the FBI profilers because there could be something
combined with all these pieces put together that could could lead to something important but at this point
yeah I I wonder if this is the same time that he was writing those suicide notes
we wanted we're going to ask specially Hall about that to see if it was the same day so I'm wondering if he was
actually writing those suicide notes and this was just before he was about to commit suicide initially and he was
interrupted or if it was just two separate events but other than that is just trying him just trying to show
ownership of these four unfortunate victims yeah I completely agree with you Josh that I think that now that we have
the information on the suicide and we have the information about the skull drawings that we're at a different time
that we're able to kind of put the suicide note the goodbye letter um the skull drawings and the cell
drawings or writings all together and analyze it as a whole which will hopefully you know bring new information
to light the picture of bamet that was included with the skull drins which is the horn goat with the pentagram is
satanic imagery and I think that uh you know he he talked about this in the interrogations of of like his
motivations or him trying to come to terms with you know the the sexual sat that he was and I have a quote here
somewhere um here we go and so in the 710 interview he says back then and he's talking about when he was late teens
early 20s um he says back then I thought I was a Satanist I had a different philosophy than I do now my philosophy
changed on what I wanted or My Philosophy changed on why I wanted to do it at the time I thought I was into the
whole Satanist symbolism stuff then over the next few years I realized I didn't believe in any of that stuff it was just
a justification and I realized I wanted to do it because I wanted to do it and so he says himself
that before his incarceration that he had already come to terms with the fact that he didn't believe any of that [ __ ]
that he wasn't a Satanist he just wanted to murder because he wanted to murder um and so I find it very
interesting the fact that he's kind of going back to that ideology and this and this symbolism with um Satanism when he
says himself that he doesn't believe any of that stuff what's also interesting with that is the he branded himself over
his on his body so he had several brands that can upside down cross I believe a smiley face uh an anarchy symbol and I
believe there are a couple other I can't recall at the moment there was a pentag
um pentagram thank you sorry um and one thing that's interesting about the drawing in this cell is the pentagram is
actually reversed and with the two points projecting upwards it's uh normally a pentagram is actually a
symbol of unity which would make sense if he's trying to say that they are all one but this reverse pentagram with the
two points projecting upwards is a symbol of evil and it attracts uh like Sinister forces basically so it's a
completely different meaning and uh one thing about the about the brands just to
throw this in there uh they had asked his ex-girlfriend about his branding and you know she she was
uh in the medical field so she knew about wounds and and things like that and there's a specific note where they
had asked her about how the brands were done and she wasn't really sure but she assumed just heating up metal and then
applying to the skin like a coat hanger or something like that when they go into
the detail they start asking her questions there's one in particular that they were asking about that must have
been done very poorly or left a very um bad scar uh so there's a question as whether they they were trying to ask her
if they think that he would brand himself either after a victim or while with a victim because he talks a lot
about going out and having to smoke with these victims he talked about having a cigar or yeah I think a cigar or
cigarette with the rain curer same thing with Samantha kig um and they were sort
of insinuating that the I believe the happy face brand was actually done with a sort of a cigarette or a cigar and and
this is all again later on in life after he claims to have no longer believed in
Satanism that he's still attaching these different images to himself you just riled up all the uh happy face truth
serial killers oh [ __ ] yeah yeah thanks I I've that too because he he you part of his kill kit
was a camp stove which you know there are about a million very nefarious things we can think about him using that
camp stove for but I've always wondered if perhaps it was as part of a branding thing and not a torture thing like you
said he identified himself at some point as a Satanist do we have evidence or anybody talking about whether he studied
being a Satanist or and or or studying anything of the cult yeah he talked about it I mean you
know I I guess it would depend on your definition of studied but he read a lot about the oul Satanism serial killers um
I I believe he even had like a Satanist pack in um in the bag that he took on this first you know his definition of
rape is very strange but this first sexual assault that he committed in either 97 or 98 um he said that he
wanted to bring Satanism into it so yeah he doesn't go into detail about like what books he read or how long he was
studying it but it was clearly something he had read up on and I think it has everything to do with his I mean at
least that aspect the Satanism aspect especially earlier in life has everything to do with his upbringing his
family was very involved in you know religious cults and things like that and his Mo mother was extremely religious in
different variations throughout his childhood and he said himself that you know that
that he thought that the Satanism aspect was him kind of lashing out and being really angry at his religious upbringing
yeah you can see throughout his life a lot of what he did was in in Rebellion to his upbringing you know he was raised
in a uh essentially Neo-Nazi church that did not value minorities specifically gay people and
black people and you know he married a black woman and was was a bisexual man uh I don't think he was bisexual out of
rebellion but I I do think a lot of what he did in life was in direct conflict of
how he was raised he joined the army which was very uh against his family and his religious
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that was found in the cell but you know he says at some point I realized I didn't believe in any of that [ __ ] and
that's not what he was about he claims one thing we do know about him is that all of his murders are premeditated
to how far in advance they were predetermined victim or or location or otherwise is sounds like it's Up For
Debate it makes me wonder how premeditated was his suicide and how much of this stuff that
you know like the skulls and the pentagram was that things that he was we know they they were done well in advance
but is that stuff that he was putting into place to lead up to the to his his demise and and leave
these questions afterwards I also wonder again going back to the daughter is the
pentagram in the cell an out in a way of you know I was driven by Satan I you know not in control of of who I was I
you know or born evil something of that nature yeah and I think that you know that the skull drawings like we said
were done at a different time from from when he could was able to accomplish suicide but it's very
possible that he was trying to commit suicide in at that time and maybe that that was the message that he wanted to
leave I really think he was just trying to yeah like give meaning or almost an excuse of why he was the person that he
was so do we believe that Israel Keys was concerned about how his family or how his daughter would see him yeah I
think it it changed during his incarceration not so much with his kid but with the rest of his family he
definitely wanted to protect them for whatever reason uh from what he had done and how he would be viewed in the world
I I do know however that you know no one believed no one in his life believed he
was capable of these things and you know in the last months of his life he was writing letters that were confiscated
saying like yeah I did do these things um but when it came to his kid it seemed to the very end he did what he could to
shelter her from knowing who he actually was well I I think it's important to know that he was willing to talk to the
FBI but he was willing to give up information only in trade and the trade was that he would give more information
on his crimes and victims only if the FBI kept him and his name out of the media and so that and then the other the
other thing he wanted was an exped Ed um execution it's surprising because he liked to talk about it but at the same
time he did not want the media coverage and the only reason I can think of why that was a motivation for him is to
protect his family and specifically his daughter yeah I think it's really easy particularly with you know the history
of serial killers to conflate wanting to talk about his crimes with wanting attention for his crimes and I think
with keys like those two things are not in relation to one another I think he enjoyed talking about them because he he
didn't have to live in secrecy anymore but I don't think it was about garnering media public worldwide attention like I
said earlier I think he would hate the fact that we're sitting here having this conversation for you know millions of
people to hear um and then yeah to Dakota's point he very much went in the reason most people didn't know about
Keys till very recently was because of this deal he made with the FBI uh which he even said was like I want to
protect my family I don't want my kid to hear about this stuff it's it's also interesting because there's so much
material available that you're able to see it in different points in his life that he almost seemed conflicted about
it I think in 2001 there's a he had spoken to a girlfriend at the time and said that um he had there a Darkness
surrounding his heart or a Blackness surrounding his heart and you know later on right before he was actually
apprehended he was seen crying and and saying that you don't know the things that I've done to his family members uh
in Texas so there's this strange it's it's really strange to me where it seems like he does he is aware that what he is
doing is bad and not that he feels remorse for it but it could be just the idea of him realizing that eventually my
family's going to find out about that and then maybe the shame that comes along with that I I I don't know don't
really know where to put that but it's interesting to be able to see that two sides of of somebody so terrifying yeah
even in very strange places we've been doing a lot of data mining using um you know internet breaches and Google Trends
to track his online activity and we were able to find a screen name that he was using on discuss which is like a comment
uh app and under you know what he thought was anonymity he had said to someone like what if I was a
serial killer uh with a young child who had killed 50 people would you say that to me then uh
so it just goes back to this like he wanted to talk about it and he wanted to get reactions but he didn't want the
attention it's it's a very strange uh dichotomy well it seems like the you know that like we talked about this in
our first episode The Duality of his personalities like I'm not saying he's a split personality or anything like that
but he definitely had two different lives he was leading and they were completely in conflict with one another
one thing that is strange is this disappearance of Jimmy Lamar Tidwell Jr is there anyone that can talk about the
details of that and why Keys might be linked to this disappearance yeah this is you know I've looked at probably 70
missing persons cases as being plausible possible keys cases and Jimmy Tidwell is
far and a way to me the most compelling he disappeared we're not really sure when he worked the swing shift uh at a I
want to say pipe fitting company uh in East Texas uh and we know he got off uh at around I think 300 a.m. on February
15th of 2012 we don't know whether he made it home or not he just disappeared at some
point following his shift from work was never seen again he for his job wore construction helmet construction goggles
construction gloves he at the time had long thinning uh like grayish brown hair and his car was eventually found I I
want to say six miles from his house on an Old Farm Road his helmet was not in there his helmet disappeared with him at
the time he disappeared Keys was in Texas uh his phone was turned off and uh he told his family that he had gotten
stuck in the mud at a mall parking lots uh for two days he did later say that he
got stuck in the mud on that trip he didn't confirm that it was on that two-day window or where it happened um
but what we do know is when Jimmy Tidwell went missing about 200 miles away Keys was also missing with his
phone off Jimmy disappeared from an area that Keys's family was about to move to
he's actually bought 2 days after Jimmy's disappearance from the Walmart closest to Jimmy's house which at that
point he had no Geographic ties to lubricant a folding shovel and air freshener we know Keys was a necropile
that's compelling but also you know I've talked to Bobby shakon who briefly worked the case uh and just all also
through my research there is a trend that Keys would often look to or actually commit burglaries and arson
following his murders he even talked about prolonging the High um The Day After Jimmy Tidwell disappeared
Keys uh set a house on fire in Alo Texas and then drove to ail Texas where he robbed a bank and um I can jump in
really quick just to add to that the the the receipt that they found that said there was a shovel lube and an air
freshener doesn't really State what kind of lube it is and it could have been something and I
say that because it could it could be for the obviously nefarious reason but it could also be as a way to kind of
bury another cash and prep weapons before he buries them so either way it's it doesn't look good um but it's just a
different way to look at at that I guess when they eventually confirmed it was Keys who robbed the spank and ail they
pulled up the surveillance and keys is wearing a construction helmet and he has long stringy hair in it and they asked
him where he got the hair from and he said that it was human hair very very compelling circumstantial evidence the
only other plausible suspect in Jimmy's disappearance is his wife um and we have
the local Case Files local law enforcement case files and they don't say why but they say that they have
ruled her out she however you know was not a great witness she changed her story a couple times so I want to put
that out there but I I just the the evidence for keys is pretty overwhelming there's some other factors we know that
Keys often trolled Craigslist and right before Jimmy disappeared he had posted on Craigslist that he was selling his
washer and dryer Jimmy lived in a very rural area uh in a house that was under construction so you know again goes with
the geography and anthropology of K's emo of going to far away places where there aren't going to be Witnesses and
places that he can blend in well this is what's fascinating CU you said you believe
there's some evidence of digital contact with these victims I it's something we're pursuing because we've
seen patterns um there has not been any definitive proof yet but we have seen some of the same stuff come over and
over and over again we also know for a fact and have copies of it where Keys was going online and commenting on
articles about his victims was he using false identification at any time because
it like he's trying to muddy the waters and really cover his tracks and and really not let people know where he is
at certain times but to fly into Chicago I mean you you purchase there's a paper trail right you purchase that
that plane ticket and you can drive as far as you want but he rented a car and then he checks into a hotel it it seems
like I don't know it seems very like I'm going to these Great Lengths and and all
this effort to to distance my physical self from where I actually am but meanwhile it seems like very novice of
him of a like a rookie mistake that that yes there's a paper trail I kind of think that was actually part of it um
he's setting up his own aliis by having these points on a map but then he's dist
distancing himself from those points and even with William in the ring Courier you know his Alibi was that he was going
to be fish in that area he bought a fishing license for those that three days slot that he would be in town so
while he was there if he ever did question about it he would be able to say no I was just there fishing that's I
was just passing through I always pass through this area um and he went to the same hotel that he he' been to multiple
times so I think it was just a way for him to he absolutely could have used different different IDs but I think he
tried to set it up in such a short amount of time that it seemed impossible for him to even be considered suspect
yeah I agree we've had a few people come forward and say they know for a fact that he used or had fake IDs but we
haven't been able to like credibly vet those uh comments but to Josh's point I think he was he was more interested in
muddying where and when he was um so another example is he would he bought two fishing licenses in two states for
the two same for the same two-day period um or there's at least one instance where he checked or he booked two
different hotel rooms in two different cities for the same night so I think stuff like that where he could plausibly
say like oh I was going to go there but I changed my mind or like oh yeah I was just there for a few days to fish and
then I left um and that goes back to him planning his crimes in conjunction with
events whether it be cruises or visiting family or family birthday parties or whatever and correct correct me if I'm
wrong here um you guys but did he wasn't he booked in the hotel room in Texas right before his arrest wasn't he booked
in that hotel room under an alias like Isaiah or something like that yeah yeah but there is you know in Vermont he used
his identification to book that room but when they took his license plate uh for
parking he changed one digit on the license plat and changed the issuing state so instead of being New Hampshire
I think he said it was Arizona and then instead of being like one two three he said it was 132 and that could have also
just been human error like it's very easy to say like everything is intentional um but yeah he did small
things to muddy his digital or Geographic Footprints and they keep a database of those of fishing licenses
and Hunt hunting licenses as well so it's it's I don't know again I I find it strange going to all these efforts to
the I mean the paper trail would have been the same if he would have just flown to Vermont you know it's it seems
like he's creating all this extra work but like the captain said who knows what he did between Chicago and Vermont
exactly well and I know some of this information is is sensitive and you guys have worked with the FBI and you you
still have a lot of work that's still going on and going forward that you're going to continue with but you guys know
me I'm sensitive or not I'm going to needle you for information you you you knew walking
into this that that was going to happen so with without being too yeah without being too descriptive here I'm going to
I'm going to demand an answer but within that case File and the information that
you guys have reviewed you know you talked earlier about the process of going to locations and attempting to
recover these items what what are the states of of significance to those future searches states that you're more
concerned with right because we have the we have 50 states in the United States which ones are you prioritizing based
off of that information as opposed to ones that just don't seem so interesting to you I think we probably each have a
different answer for this I would I would bet but i' I'd say definitely right now our main focus is uh
Washington the Olympic Peninsula and the surrounding areas um that's where our entire first season is taking place in
New York uh we know was speaking with the FBI that they found a a cach recently in New York and
it was they turn turned out to not be connected to Keys um but they still expect there to be uh caches in New York
and uh obviously there's Vermont Maine Texas is a very high priority for us um he stated a place in one in Wyoming um
that's that's huge and uh the FBI also told us that there's a chance though they believe that either there's a cash
or a victim in Oregon um but like I said I think all of us probably have our own opinions um
just by the way that we look at the case yeah the crazy thing is is we have leads
all around the country and we kind of have to prioritize them um you know mostly because of time and resource
limitations um but so we have to kind of see which ones are the most valid and kind of go after those first and like
Josh said the Olympic Peninsula in Washington since he spent so much time there and was so active in Washington we
think at least personally I think that there's more crimes to uncover in Washington and the evidence and these
caches that could still be there are of the most interest to us um and so you know like places that he went and
frequented the only things we know are what he told the FBI um but we know that he also spent time with people in these
locations you know spots like Lake Crescent Beaver Lake Lake oette uh Port Angeles squim um these are all really
high value places for us as far as information and so um there's I mean but the the leads are kind of taking us all
around the country yeah for me I have like hot spots of likely activity um and so Pennsylvania West Virginia is one
Upstate New York to main is another Texas Louisiana Alabama Tennessee is one the four corner States then Washington
Southern California Northern California and Wyoming are kind of my priorities right now I don't think any of us
mentioned Alaska did we okay oh well that's obvious yeah that's one spot that's really high on our list
to go see because we haven't been to the the spot where they discovered a cach there and that's that's something I
really am excited to get to what's your guys's call to action on your guys's podcast regarding this case what what is
the FBI working on now what do they want the public to know because they've they've made a a reach out to the public
on at least two or three occasions right looking for more information about Israel Keys the FBI is absolutely still
involved um they're partici participating in a bunch of media events to try to get the word out about the
caches because they think that is the best opportunity to find a victim and they think that cashes have been found
and just not reported so I think just getting awareness out that if you found something like this or if you stumble
across something like this make sure you do not touch it you do not open it you just report it to the police and then
let them take it take over from there um but in you know the coming months there
will be a few docu series released there's been a few more podcasts started up about Israel keys and the FBI has
been taking part in those podcasts like like ours they're going to be working with Josh as well to try to spread the
word because they really the the chance of them finding a victim just by stumbling across it is going to be so
difficult um so they think this is the best Avenue to find to find victims has Israel Keys family members or friends
have any of them been Cooperative with either one of your guys' investigations yes yeah I won't name who because they
want anonymity but I've talked to three members of his family and one uh Ono going they all uh as far as I can tell
want answers um they don't want families to be wondering what happened to their loved ones um I think they take on as
much as they emotionally can because it's easy to forget that you know his crimes impact his family as much as they
impact the families of the people he's harmed um but yeah they everyone I've talked to and everyone I've heard about
or heard from like they want to see the FBI continue looking into this they want
to see closure they want to see cases get solved um and so yeah it's been really lovely CU I think that's the fear
going into this is am I going to hurt the these invisible victims and thank God that hasn't been the case and and
you guys probably have all different opinions but what do you think is the most fascinating thing about the
investigation or about Keys himself why not just you but like you said all these other shows popping up
what do you think that a lore is or what is the lore for you for me which I I tend to think is probably a a a general
allore is everything about this case is is the opposite of what we're accustomed
to um like we know the killer but not the victims that there is a modern-day serial killer operating in all 50 states
where men women and children could be targets and no one even knew he existed till after he was apprehended and dead I
think it brings together a lot of components of True Crime into a single case and then it the narrative is the
exact opposite of how we're used to learning about cases um you know he committed arson and burglaries he
murdered people he planned his crimes well in advance he was a family man who was adored by his community I just think
in many ways keys not only breaks serial killer archetype but he is the ultimate
Boogyman because any one of us could have been his victim yeah the case for me it's that that the case is so
expansive and we have so much information about his crimes yet we kind of have nothing and so there's all these
unanswered questions yet we have thousands of pages of information and and hours upon hours of
interrogations yet we still can't answer a lot the questions and I think for me it's he is just the scariest person
alive or now dead but the scariest serial killer ever because I've my wife and I do a lot of backpacking and it's
always been the biggest fear of somebody just attacking our tent in the middle of
the woods and to find that there's somebody out there that was trying to do something very similar it's just
absolutely terrifying to me but what really sucks me in is that because there is so much information kind of like I
alluded to before I just feel like if there 's there is a pattern that I think can be solved and with that just it
could just be the next piece of big information that blows this whole thing wide open and I think once you find one
more victim once you find one more cash one more bank robbery it just puts another point in the map that can be
connected to other points and you can start to really dive in even further it's basically just one giant puzzle
that we have access to the information to and I think that's a really intriguing part of it it really it
really sucks you in once you start getting involved in it and I think we all just kind of crossed the Rubicon on
that I think a lot of the cards are about to start falling get [Music] ready want to thank you all for joining
us here in the garage for this special conversation about seral killer Israel keys this is part one and part two make
sure you check out true crime [ __ ] wherever you listen to podcasts for part three and for part four make sure you
check out somewhere in the Pines wherever you listen to podcast and if that's too much to remember check out
truecrime garage.com and part three and part four will be on our website thank you so much
for the support thanks for telling people about the garage until next week be good be kind and don't litter
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11 Skulls /// Israel Keyes /// Part 2

Episode:789

Part 2 of 4

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Israel Keyes was an American serial killer. Keyes is now deceased but when he died he took many of his deep dark secrets with him. He truly was a predator with no boundaries. He killed in several states and is suspected to have done so in others. That is the mystery of Israel Keyes. It’s not just about how many victims but where and when. Questions that the F.B.I. are still working on years after Keyes’ death. The Garage is a podcast with no boundaries. We called upon Keyes experts from across the country to talk about the mysteries that Keyes left behind. This week we are joined by Josh Hallmark from the True Crime Bullsh** (bullshit) podcast. Also joining us is Dakota and Josh from the Somewhere in the Pines podcast.

Episodes 3 & 4 will be available very soon on our guests’ podcast feeds.

Episode #3 - True Crime Bullsh** - season 6 coming back from the break

Episode #4 - Somewhere in the Pines - S01E06 LaPlace, LA

Make sure to check out both and follow the Garage on socials @TrueCrimeGarage

Thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend, cheers!

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Brief Summary

Israel Keys' graphic confessions and potential victim connections are discussed, along with ongoing investigations into his crimes.

Key points

Modern Made Simple. All Modern offers a curated selection of modern furniture and decor with fast, free shipping.
Pandora's Personalized Experience. Pandora allows you to explore music and discover new artists effortlessly.
The Disturbing Mind of a Killer. Israel Keys reveals chilling details about his killings in a graphic letter.
Connecting the Dots. Investigators discuss potential victims linked to Israel Keys, revealing compelling circumstantial evidence.
The Evolution of a Killer. Exploring how the definition of a 'child' changed for him over 14 years.
The Meaning Behind the Symbols. A deep dive into the skull drawings and pentagram found in his cell.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is just the tip of the iceberg with circumstantial evidence.

Discussing potential victims connected to a serial killer.

3:40WatchSep 25, 2024

Tension

70/ 100High tension

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