Witness | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

once you are away you may tell anybody you are away you cannot tell them where you are
you cannot uh communicate uh easily through the internet all you can do now is is one them
[Music] this is Gerald Shore he's given thousands of people new names told them where they would live and warned them
they could never go back home and they have a sheep with the rules she didn't you know eight by ten piece of paper and
they sign that piece of paper that they will abide by the rules and the rules are you know we don't want to go through
the list but the uh essentially it's uh I will be a good person and live a normal life
Above All Else keep your head down you have to get a new job and a new place to live in a new city
with a new social security number and no credit history if you meet someone you like you can
never tell them who you are or where you're really from you can't bring them home to your
parents all of these rules were the invention of one man Gerald Shore the father of the
witness protection program [Music] back in the 1960s he was working for the Department of Justice on organized crime
when he realized there was a problem organized crime specifically the Italian mafia had its own set of secret rules
and these rules made it impossible for law enforcement to get anyone convicted here are the rules of organized crime as
Gerald Shore summarized them in a 1963 report you may not engage in an affair with the
wife of another member you may not engage in an affair with the sister or daughter of another member no stealing
from another member no acts of violence against another member unless approved by the boss
no handling narcotics or deriving a profit from their sale many people have pointed out that this
one doesn't seem to be taken too seriously but the most important rule of all is
silence do not give information about the organization to any outside person especially the police
some say the rules are explained to Mafia initiates during a sort of ceremony The Crime Boss Pricks your finger and
then smears the blood onto a picture of a saint then the picture is put into your hand
and set on fire you have to hold it while it's burning and repeat the oath and then you're introduced to everyone
else as quote a new friend of ours if you break the rules you'll burn like the card
yeah you how could a member of an organized crime group come forward and testify
and live I mean they would murder him before if they knew he was going to testify or murder him after he testified
and indeed might even murder other members of his family and so I thought we needed a way
to offer some kind of protection and we certainly couldn't protect them at home in the city we'd have to move them
someplace and so from that came the idea of the witness protection program because you're scared
in court has held that not even the fear of death can diminish your legal duty to
testify but that doesn't stop people from being scared as Gerald Shore realized people only
talk when they feel safe so he found a way to protect them I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal
[Music] [Applause] in his 34 years running the witness protection program Gerald Shore says he
interacted with every single witness who entered it today he's 86. and he agreed
to tell us some but not all of what he knows yes son happy to help out good there's only one area that I cannot go
near and of course that this is anything that is classified yep oh good Gerald Shore grew up in New York City in
the 1940s his father owned a dress shop in the Garment District a part of the city that was to use Gerald's phrase mob
infested so in order to keep his business running without any trouble his father was
friendly with the people he needed to be friendly with Gerald remembers Mafia guys it is bar
mitzvah when he was 15 he was eating cheesecake at a restaurant with his father when two men walked by and
greeted them his father said I know them from work later Gerald read in the newspaper that
they were suspected of throwing sulfuric acid in a journalist's face at that same
restaurant following organized crime became his hobby I used to clip articles at a
newspapers about organized crime and save them and I started a scrapbook he went to college got married and went
to law school in Texas he had two children and started his own legal practice in Corpus Christi
and then one day in 1961 he read in the Dallas Morning News that Robert Kennedy was expanding the organized crime
division at the Department of Justice and that was of course something that struck me whose hobby was organized
crime so when I saw that he was going to have an organized crime Drive I went up to
Washington the left and wound up leaving my practice and going to work for the organized crime and racketeering section
of the Department of Justice his job was to collect evidence that would convict mob members his territory
was New York City and he started to notice very quickly that the mafia's Code of Silence was
going to get in his way people who talked got killed he had the photographs of dead bodies to prove it
even with police protection potential Witnesses wound up dead famously in 1941 the most feared Hitman
in New York called Abe kid twist Rellis agreed to testify against a high-ranking
Mafia Boss he had six police officers guarding his room at the half moon hotel in Coney
Island and then on the morning he was scheduled to testify he fell from his hotel window
six stories to his death newspapers called him the canary who could sing but couldn't fly
in 1961 a heroin Smuggler named Albert aguachi from the Buffalo crime family threatened to inform on the Family's
boss Don Stefano about a month later his body was found in a field naked his front teeth knocked out and a reported
30 pounds of Flesh cut from his body Gerald remembers one man who'd worn a wire for the FBI he'd been caught and
had wires jammed through his skull to send a message after you deal with the Thousand or so more of them more than a
thousand you uh there's not much shocking left Gerald Shore knew that in order to get
any results in the courtroom they would have to find a way to keep these Witnesses alive in the early days he was
just making it up as he went along no one had ever done anything like this before
he has stories about U.S Marshals chasing down a family pet flying a boxer in to spar with a bored Witness
and even paying for one witness's wife to get breast implants a facelift and dental work
but eventually he settled on a system can you take me through the steps of entering the program if I were a
potential witness that needed help what what are the steps more steps the steps of getting into the
program are what are the crimes that they're testifying the witness is testifying to
how important is that witness to the case I mean there's a considerable evaluation and that you are in danger if
you testify then they will ask you if you would agree to relocate if you would they then send an
application form to my office where my staff evaluated the information they provided and what was involved in
relocating how many people how many children and then a psychologist will examine the witness and members of the
family so all that information is then sent into the office of enforcement operations in the United States
Department of Justice and there they have a staff of people that are really run the program and a staff workstop
reviews it makes their recommendation and if the director decides it's true it sounds good let's go and they go ahead
and send over to the Marshall service it's a deputy United States Marshal which wrote to the witness's home assess
their needs how many adults how many children is anybody sick and evaluate the situation
and all of that information is gathered now that's as far as I'll take you with one breath
after all of that the families relocated to a secret location in Washington DC where families
entering the witness protection program go for kind of an orientation and then you're told how to act
and people will work with them on they're getting used to their new names and so on so it it's uh getting him used
to the documents and used to the new name and using it and responding when someone calls them Witnesses and their
families get to keep their first name and their last initial Gerald wanted to give them time to catch themselves when
they were signing a check he also didn't want anyone to accidentally turn their head when their old name was called and
that's the sort of thing you have to practice children had to practice writing down
their new name over and over and everyone got a whole new set of documents so they would have a new
driver's license no school records uh whatever would you would normally have would be changed into another name
legally Legally right legally I mean a judge who would perform the usual procedure associated with name changes
you have to leave everything behind photo albums Diaries drawings your children made your memories become a
kind of liability and you're coached on how to change the subject when someone asks you about yourself
the name of the school on your children's report cards changes the grades stay the same even though Gerald
says some parents have asked for artificial improvements we we have been asked by uh
people who have been in the military if we would make them offices you know make somebody a lieutenant and of course
we're not going to do that what the papers they get will reflect exactly as the real papers do only the
names changed did people ever want to change their pasts like have this opportunity to
create a new identity and so tell you to make them from here or here or tell you
to say that they did this or that well we we will not make up a past for to pass on to others
uh we will report that there were Carpenters if that's the case uh but the problem is uh who are they going to give
as a reference you know uh if you give the you can't give the name of the Deputy Marshal uh
that gives away is something very peculiar about you you're dealing with a deputy
how do you get a job if you don't have any work history at first I went out to several corporations I had a friend who
worked for the United States Chamber of Commerce who's uh located in Washington DC and he was very interested in crime
and the fighting crime and I uh mentioned to him that we were going to relocate people but we have to find them
work and so he uh said he'll set up a meeting with five or six corporate presidents
for a luncheon and and it'll be in a private room and I would explain the program to them
and uh and he said if they agreed but the majority of them agreed to help you he said that I will help you
forever you know and uh the result of that meeting was we put together almost I think 1 000 corporations that agreed
to assist hiring relocated people and it worked very very well Gerald says that the witness protection
program will support you financially for the first six months in your new location
but then you do have to get a job and take over your own expenses the program couldn't afford to support
everyone forever in the early days they spent as much as one million dollars relocating some
witnesses it was controversial yes there were people that that were very concerned about it
and uh uh concerned about the the appearance of moving families to paying money for them
to do that and how would we deal with that but there were but the actual total cost of doing it
and uh I think I estimated that we would have five families in New York City in one year
and I think it turned out I think they had 25. so I obviously are not good when it
comes to math critics have asked whether it's buying testimony which is illegal one martial
is set about a famous witness the truth is we were buying his testimony to some degree
I know the justice department will deny it but it is what we did how else would we ever get inside
Gerald says that 95 percent of the witnesses who've entered the program were involved in illegal activity
themselves and some critics asked whether it's fair to everyone else to move criminals into
unsuspecting communities did people who ever enter the program commit more crimes yes
yes about 15 percent what would happen in the program committed a crime would you get
involved yes and we would place them in another prison if he's convicted if he's arrested by the state
a state we would know it because Witnesses are fingerprinted and all their fingerprints
are sent to the FBI when an arrest is made in any city in the country uh the prince of the prisoner are sent
to the FBI so anytime they're arrested we get a notice and in the uh one of the early
surveys again the number of 15 percent fifteen percent committed crime again that must be incredibly frustrating
well we consider it a great success because the criminals who go to prison without being in the witness program a
much much higher rate of them commit crime again whereas those in the witness program
that are in prison when they get out they're getting help getting a job they're no longer in the society with
the friends that are criminals uh you know they they have someone out there to help them
so uh I think the help these personal assistance is the most important reason for us having a very low recidivism rate
there have been some notable exceptions in 1979 a bank robber named Marion Pruitt was serving time in an Atlanta
prison when he agreed to supply information about who had murdered his cellmate the witness protection program relocated
him to Albuquerque his wife to death with a hammer and burned her remains in the desert
he then killed five more people and robbed a series of banks before he was caught
he later admitted that he had murdered his own cellmate and framed another man for it so that he could get into the
witness protection program as one high-ranking U.S Marshal once said it's a problem program
it's always going to be a problem program because every element in it is human [Music]
how were the cities how would you decide Bobby is going to Tucson and Cheryl's going to Tacoma how did you pick the
city well the first thing you would look at is your workload you have witness security inspectors throughout the
country but they can only handle so many witnesses at one time in the land needs
so you would look at the workload and uh and uh so that would eliminate certain cities then you would try to find one in
which they would be comfortable but if you'd always talked about wanting to live in San Francisco they wouldn't put
you in San Francisco too easy to guess still they tried to match Witnesses with cities that might suit them you know
it's very difficult to adjust you know from New York City to Idaho I think the hardest thing is well
several elements the community you live in is different uh having to adjust to that having to
lie to their neighbors for the first time and they have a made up history and that's
what they have to tell the neighbor the normal things that you do in life the first time they go to a grocery
store and use a charge card and a new name and remembering to sign the slip with the new name not the old name
it's also [Music] very difficult and uh when a mother dies that's left back home and they want to go to the
funeral we will somehow make arrangements for them to not necessarily be at the funeral but they will get to see
their deceased relative the mother and father whomever privately in the in the funeral home
with something I would not wish on anyone the only reason to do it was if it was your only hope to stay alive they
can leave the program anytime they want and if they want to go back home they can go back home
all the witnesses are told don't go back home among other things there was a guy in 1972 who was in the
witness protection program and decided to break the rules and go check on his house
his house had been rigged with a bomb and when he opened the front door it exploded and killed him
but according to the U.S Marshals not a single witness who follows the rules has
been harmed or killed while under active protection they report that since 1971 they've
successfully relocated and given new identities to more than 8 600 Witnesses and nearly ten thousand of their family
members did anyone change their mind once they learned what they'd have to do yes yes there are people who have left
the program and I've even gone back using their real name and uh some are very free about that but
that's their choice in 1975 a New Jersey Hitman named John Tully entered the program
he was relocated to Austin Texas and given the new name John Johnson he set himself up with a pretty
successful fajita and hot dog stand business everything was going well until 1991.
when he decided to run for mayor for some reason he announced he would put John Johnson off to the side for now
and told everyone who he really was he provided journalists with a seven-page rap sheet and said his
cooperation with the government had helped to convict nine people he said he'd been a thief before running
for office which was better than everyone else who quote got into office and then started crooking
he received 496 votes Gerald Shore says that a lot of these cooperating Witnesses are used to
feeling like a big deal and to now have to live quiet simple lives is hard as he
puts it time was frozen for them [Music] being away from a life you've lived 40 years with
the patterns you've developed the friendships you made and changing and suddenly you're you're
in a wilderness you don't know anybody you're not a rising star uh you're just another person
[Music] in our next episode we'll speak with the son of a Columbo Kingpin who testified
against his father and then had to enter the witness protection program [Music] criminal is created by Lauren Spore and
me needy Wilson is our senior producer audiomix by Rob Byers special thanks to Natalia luderman
Julian Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal you can see them at this is
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foreign [Music] [Music]

We speak to a Gerald Shur who has given thousands of people new names, told them where they would live, and warned them they could never go back home. Today, we take a look into the founding of the Witness Protection Program.

For more, check out Gerald Shur’s book, WITSEC: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/44494/witsec-by-pete-earley-and-gerald-shur/9780553582437/

Music in the episode “Gra Hovedvei” by Blue Dot Sessions “Rambling” by Blue Dot Sessions “An Oddly Formal Dance” by Blue Dot Sessions “Paramo Ocho” by Blue Dot Sessions “Curiously and Curiously” by Blue Dot Sessions “Lamprey” by Blue Dot Sessions “Speed Reader - Darker” by Original Music by Blue Dot Sessions

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. https://link.chtbl.com/n33u0HsA

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Episode transcripts are posted on our website https://thisiscriminal.com/.

Episode 104 originally published 12/7/2018 https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-104-witness-12-7-2018

Brief Summary

Gerald Shore discusses the witness protection program's origins, rules, and the challenges faced by relocated witnesses.

Key points

The Mafia's Code of Silence. Gerald Shore outlines the secret rules of organized crime that prevent witnesses from coming forward.
A Dangerous Choice. Witnesses in the program face life-threatening risks if they testify against the Mafia.
The Invention of Witness Protection. Gerald Shore created the witness protection program to protect those who testify against organized crime.
Life After Witness Protection. Witnesses must adapt to new identities and leave their past behind, often facing emotional challenges.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

You can't bring them home to your parents.

1:15WatchJan 21, 2023

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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