Get Out of My House | Criminal Podcast | Forensic Files

had you ever thought of yourself before as a a brave person a great someone who took control of situations or was this
what you did did that surprise you well I I'm a New Year's baby which means I'm a Capricorn and you know Capricorns
um are those those goats that climb the hill and they don't look to take charge but if the situation needs someone to
take charge they do it that they're not looking for it but if nobody else is doing it they just do it
[Music] you be judged this is Criminal [Music] in 1977 Carmela alifi and her then
husband bear bought a big old house in Atlanta Georgia Carmella describes it as a Charleston
dog walk house and in a Charleston house every room opens into a long Central hallway you can open the front door and
see all the way into the backyard she and bear paid just over thirty two thousand dollars for it and the plan was
that they'd live on one side and rent out the other side this wasn't a part of Atlanta known as
Little Five Points Little Five Points was a really artsy area and uh this is like 78 there was like Organic
restaurants which you know back then there just weren't many of those kinds of places there was the shoe store that
had Birkenstocks like that was their main thing the Birkenstock store and there was a Little Five Points Pub where
the Indigo Girls would play I was about 21 years old and had just moved to Atlanta had probably been there
maybe about six months Kathleen rabinovitz was renting the other side of Carmela's house and we were working uh
in the house in the apartment and we were actually I was in July actually it was really hot and we were steaming
wallpaper off the walls it was just layers and layers of wallpaper that we were scraping off and there was about
six of us there we've been at it all day just steaming wallpaper off with the walls they decided to take a break
Carmella was watering her plants in the front yard her friend Steve was keeping her company and we noticed that
couple of police cars go by and then a police van goes by and we're kind of eyeing each other like
what what the heck is going on here and then motorcycle cops go by more police cars and I said Steve this is weird
maybe something's going on I was actually sitting in the living room by myself listening to some music I
had on a headset and I just saw this stranger walk into the living room and I kind of thought where did he come from
he turned around and looked at me and he held a gun up to his mouth as to say and I just kind of went numb at that
point and he turned around and walked out of the living room back towards uh the other rooms in the back of the house
and all I could think of was if I can just get out of here because I'm so close to the front door I'll just you
know take off running Kathleen tiptoed toward the front door and she was almost there when at the
last minute she glanced over her shoulder the man with a gun was standing at the
other end of the hallway staring at her and there was a second man standing beside him
they didn't say a word just stared and motioned for her to come back inside the house
and of course I did at that point I just was you know if my knees could have uh made a sound they were just like
knocking I was just so frightened she walked toward the men and when she got to the back of the house into the
kitchen she found her friends sitting silently around the kitchen table except for Carmela and Steve they were
still in the front yard Steve and I not knowing what's going on start to go in and I you know I Steve
didn't come in for a few minutes I walked in first without him and there is bare standing with these two guys that I
don't know and bear says Carmella these two guys are running from the police they're going to stay here until dark
and then I'm going to take them away was he calm well he but said it very calmly now you've
got to get a little glimpse into who bear is he was a an Army Ranger he had done tours in Vietnam
you know if there was going to be a fight you want him on your side so this is this is who is sitting there
saying Carmella very calmly this is what's happening you know just they're going to be here until dark and
I'm going to take them away what do the men look like um one of them was really tall
um the other one you may not know who I'm gonna reference here but uh did you ever see Young Frankenstein the movie
um well there's a character in it that is played by the actor Marty Feldman who is a short guy with bug eyes and
the shorter guide looked a lot like Marty Feldman both of them looked kind of wired like
they'd been going for a while they look kind of tense and wired but when I saw them I I like I
I I just you never know what your reaction is going to be okay my reaction was I look at them and I go
oh hell no you are not staying in my house get the hell out of my house right to this minute and I start pushing them
I remember Carmela's husband saying he was trying to tell her you know to be quiet and that they had a gun but he
couldn't get a word in edgewise it was like she didn't want any part of it she wanted him out of her house and that was
it I am yelling the whole time you get out of my house right this minute do you know that there are police cars
motorcycle cops and fans they're right outside and if you don't get out right now I'm going to tell them that you're
in here and there's an undercurrent of other voices saying things well I'm doing this and
I'm not really paying them much mine but the other voices are like bear going Carmella shut up they have guns Carmella
shut up Carmella get calm get calm be calm Carmel quit talking but I'm not listening to any of that I'm just
yelling for them to get the hell out of my house right this minute she had one of them almost out the back
door he kind of freaked and that's when he put the gun in her face and said that
if you know they're gonna die we're all going to die at that point you know I just kind of lost it in myself and
another young lady just started you know crying I was like that's it and of course Carmella's eyes got biggest
quarters and she just stopped and backed off and was like oh okay I just didn't notice the guns before I
was so set on I just felt like intrusion it was such a Invasion for someone to be in my house I mean this is
the first house I ever owned and what what were they doing in there I didn't invite them into my house it was really
really um you would think I'd be scared I'd be vulnerable all these other things but I
was just really mad I was so mad and I couldn't see straight until he actually pulled the gun to my head
should I take a breath and then I look around Kathy is crying at the kitchen table
and I think what am I going to do and I look up and I said it's really weird that I said this but
you know just trying to make things better I said um do you like some iced tea or Baby Ruth
I mean I just people still Buy Baby Ruth I've never heard anyone says not candy bar named for a long time
well it was like I just wanted to make it better and so um I um are from something to drink and eat
and did they take you up on it not at that moment no and um at that time Steve has finally walked in
from outside walks to the back of the house walks into the kitchen and Cece's two guys now whether he saw
the gun or not I don't really know but the gun was definitely out at that time he looks up and uh
he said it just kind of evaluates the situation and he he later said he thought that we
must know these guys and that it did not look safe and he was going to leave so he
says uh come on Susie we're going home and we're all looking at him like what and he said uh we're going home right
now and the guy said uh the big guy he says Ah pulls the gun on him you're not going anywhere
foreign [Music] you realized you were stuck with these guys now for a while what what did you
all do well Steve and Bear kind of went into the living room with the two guys which we could see them but
we weren't with them and bear said well we'll come in here and and let's uh drink a beer how about
let's have a beer I think somebody up there might have even had a joint and bear said let's just you know let's
drink a beer and just calm down for a minute and relax bear is always very quiet he's very what
I called Southern he doesn't really talk that much and you know it's just a was just a good old
guy but I really uh realize that he has a you know has a way about him that he can get along with anyone
but I would have never ever would have guessed that he would have been able to sit there and
you know actually got them to trust him one at a time the guys went into the bathroom and took a shower and changed
clothes which was really weird there they are taking Bears clothes and putting them on
you know getting a fresh shirt and as they're sitting around the the four guys um the tall guy
looks at them looks at bear and Steve and he is looking for a little understanding
and he says so don't you guys know any Outlaws and Steve um who did have a good sense of humor
although I don't know how he found it at that moment he said the only Outlaws I know are Willie Nelson and Waylon
Jennings well you know I you may not know or you may know Willie Nelson and willing Jennings had a band called The
Outlaws and so that was the best they could do to relate to these Outlaws were you in
the kitchen or were you in other rooms thinking to yourself how are we going to escape how are we going to get out of
here well we are sitting there man the girls are sitting in the uh kitchen I I was just so mortified and
so scared I just sat there I and we were just very quiet we didn't we did what Steve told us to do just to be calm and
you know not make any you know uh noise or give them any ideas to get excited or the fact that we're
you know trying to leave or getting up trying to get water or anything we just kind of just sat there and we're totally
silent and we could hear Carmela's husband in the living room talking to them and they seem to be having you know
a calm conversation so we just kind of sat there and just waited did anyone have to go to the bathroom
no I don't think so we we were just all like shocked so with the two men kind of peek
their head in the kitchen every once in a while and just make sure that you were
still sitting there at the table and then return to the living room with bear well um where we were situated you could
actually where they were sitting in the living room they could see straight back
to the kitchen where we were were at the table so they could see us at all times
and I'm thinking we could totally go out the back door and run out the back door
but then that might really make them angry and maybe they would kill bear and Steve if we did that and so that kind of
kept us in line how long were they there hours they were there for hours they were waiting for it to get dark
because I mean obviously all those policemen were looking for them they were who they were after
they were in the neighborhood and and later on I I will tell you that we found out that they had beaten up a policeman
they had taken his gun and you know when it's that situation the police really really want to capture them I
mean so how did they end up leaving what did they say well um bear said uh I think it's time for us to go
and it's it's dark enough and I think we should go ahead and go and um the guy said
uh if you call the police uh we'll kill him we'll kill bear so don't make any phone calls until he's
back so they take off they get in the Ford van and they and they leave [Music] so I call my brother in Claxton
and so I'm a dawn yeah it's done um we've been held hostage by Escape convicts for the last several
hours and um they've taken bear and he's going to drop them off somewhere and they told me
if I call the police they'll kill him and I don't really know what to do what do you think I should do and God says
don't call Mom and Dad they are at a dance at the Elks club and there's nothing that they could do and you would
you'd hate to ruin their night I said okay I won't call them and uh I said well what about Uncle John he goes yeah
call Uncle John well my uncle John I don't know if you've noticed but the name Carmela
alifi is very Italian in fact it's Sicilian and um we always kind of teased about Uncle
John that um because I mean he was involved in so many different businesses which is kind
of um we always kind of wondered exactly what all he did and um he he definitely had that tough guy
Sicilian look like he could kill you with a glance and uh you know you always felt like he
could take care of anything so I called Uncle John and I tell him what's going on he said I'll come over
so Uncle John is coming and we're I'm sitting there sketching because I felt like the police are going to want to
know what this guy looked like and you know sketching without looking at someone was not really my forte but I
was trying to capture some little look of the two men and I'm drawing and the phone rings
it's my parents my dad says Don just called us and told us what happened and I'm just thinking Don of course he did
and after I talked to them I decided I was going to call the police anyway an officer came immediately and everyone
explained what had happened and then would the officer still there they saw a bear's car pull up
Kathleen remembers that they were so terrified the men might have come back with bear that they made the police
officer hide behind a door but bear walked back in alone safe he had dropped them off
in Norcross um which is the Northern Atlanta and had dropped them off at a Dairy
Queen and he left the two men we'd later find out had gone into the Dairy Queen they held up the Dairy Queen
they took the manager and his girlfriend and they took them somewhere in south Georgia where they robbed a bank
their names were James Edwin Wilkes Jr and Murphy staffens and they'd escaped from prison in Wayne County
they've been escorted to a dentist outside of the prison facility as the dentist told the Atlanta Journal
Constitution he had one of the inmates in the chair and had pulled his tooth halfway out when another inmate came in
and put a gun in his face the one I was working on the dentist said we'll be in some pain
they were eventually caught after Bloodhounds found their Trail in North Florida
they've been running and holding people hostage for six days by the time they were caught according
to the sheriff they've been pretty well worked over by mosquitoes and yellow flies
luckily they weren't killers and the we had heard that they had more on a path of Badness and
um they had also been up all night and so they were sleep deprived and they were carrying guns
and I'll tell you one thing that really unnerved me in a weird way it unnerved me almost as
much as the day that this happened it was about three weeks later I was changing in the linen on the bed
and I felt something a little odd and I slipped my hand between the mattress and the box springs
and I pull out a gun I have been sleeping on top of this gun this loaded gun and so I called the
police and I tell them that this gun is there oh my God like 20 cups pull up in front
of the house and they're all running in just to get this gone and that was really
really crazy [Music] does it feel like the world is more dangerous now than it was then
you know yes yes I it does and it does feel like a less safe world but but there's so much more
communication we hear about so much more um don't you think yeah I mean it sounds
even though these men had guns this sounds like a story that you wouldn't hear about today
yeah all sharing a joint and just waiting till the sun goes down um you know you've got you've got
um someone who you know bear bear had dealt with danger and um I think um I've been in the military had really you
know been in situations where people tell Tall Tales um you know around a pit that they could
jump into when the next bomb goes off um I think he was well suited for the task
of um of dealing with people in a dangerous situation bear whose name was actually Frederick
Howard passed away in 2011. how often have you told this story I have told this story many times and sat
around with friends on the beach in a circle and this is one of my favorite things you just say all right let's
everybody tell their best story and isn't that the most entertaining thing to to sit around with friends
around a table or on the beach and to tell stories real stories of that have happened and to hear people's stories I
I think that it just doesn't get any better than that [Music] foreign called for jury duty they never want me
because they always ask is there anyone here that has been victim to a crime and
I always have to say well you know the only thing I can think of is I was held hostage by Escape convicts and they
never want me so [Music] criminal is created by Lauren Spore and me media Wilson is our senior producer
Teresa katsurilis is our assistant producer audiomix by Rob Byers special thanks to Carmella's daughter Jenna
Alstead Who convinced her mother to speak with us Julian Alexander makes original
illustrations for each episode of Criminal you can see them at this iscriminal.com and find us on Facebook
and Twitter at criminal show criminal is recorded in the studios of North Carolina public radio
wunc we're a proud member of radiotopia from PRX a collection of the best podcasts around
I'm Phoebe judge this is Criminal thank you [Music] foreign [Music]

On a hot summer day in 1978, a group of friends started renovating an old house in a neighborhood in Atlanta called Little Five Points. The home belonged to Carmela Aliffi and her then-husband, Bear. Carmela and her friends were steaming wallpaper off of the walls when two strangers just walked in. One of them had a gun. Thanks to listener Jenna Alstad for writing in with her mother’s story.

Music in the episode “BurrowBurrow” by Blue Dot Sessions “Tralaga” by Blue Dot Sessions “Three Stories” by Blue Dot Sessions “Toboggan” by Podington Bear “Walking Shoes” by Blue Dot Sessions “Airliner” by Podington Bear “Pives and Flarinet” by Podington Bear

Criminal is a show about people who’ve done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. Hosted by Phoebe Judge. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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Episode 103 originally published 11/16/2018 https://thisiscriminal.com/episode-103-get-out-of-my-house-11-16-18

Brief Summary

Carmela Alifi recounts a terrifying hostage situation with escaped convicts in her Atlanta home in 1977.

Key points

A Hostage Situation Unfolds. Carmela and her friends find themselves in a terrifying hostage situation with armed intruders.
Unexpected Calm in Chaos. Bear, an Army Ranger, remains calm while dealing with the armed intruders.
A Dangerous Escape Plan. The intruders threaten Bear's life if the police are called, raising the stakes.
The Aftermath of Fear. Carmela discovers a gun hidden in her home weeks after the incident, reigniting fear.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I said um, do you like some iced tea or Baby Ruth?

9:21WatchJan 20, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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