West Memphis 3 /// Jessie, Jason and Damien | Forensic Files

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ashley.com Ashley For the Love of home [Music] [Music] I don't want a holy life of prayer and
contemplation I want a life of strife lust striving seeking struggling and debauchery I'm not content to settle for
one experience when there is a whole lifetime of experiences to be had I'm so hungry for knowledge that I live several
lives at once to acquire a Catholic and a Buddhist a reader and a writer a sinner and a
philosopher a husband and a father a Native American and a white man I no longer have any desire to fit into any
one [Music] category the canvas on the altar was also given to me its calligraphy
translates to Moon beams pierced to the bottom of the pools yet in the water not
a trace Remains Not a trace remains I have two definitions for the word magic the first is knowing that I
can affect change through my own will even Behind These Bars the other meaning is more experiential seeing Beauty for a
moment in the midst of the mundane in the movies it's always the other prisoners you have to watch out
for in real life it's the guards and the administration they go out of their way
to make your life harder and more stressful than it already is as if being on death row were not enough
they can send a man to prison for writing bad checks and then torment him there until he becomes a violent
offender one of our laurian mind's greatest inventions was moonwater another prisoner once
discovered me making moonwater and said it was so illogical it nearly drove him insane for months afterward he would
stomp his feet in frustration and Bellow this [ __ ] is crazy it makes no sense that [ __ ] is making my head hurt for
some reason the thought of it seemed to hurt his mind then again he was a little
unbalanced to begin with moon water can be made only once a month on the night of the full moon after the sun goes down
and the moon rides High you fill a container with water and set it on a window ledge so that the moon cast a
reflection in it you must leave it there all night so that it catches as much of
the moon's light as possible you have to remove it right before morning so that the Sun's light never touches it
it must then be kept in a dark place my wife and I did this every full moon for years and we would take a
single sip of the water at the same time each night while thinking of each other
in that moment we were United no matter how far apart we might be you take a single sip each night so that you have
enough to last the entire month for every way the system attempts to separate us we can't help but seek out
new ways to pull ourselves together in the end hatefulness and ignorance always fail in the face of intelligence and
love the proof is in the moon water Moon beams Pierce to the bottom of the pools
yet in the water not a trace Remains Not a trace Remains Not a trace remains [Music]
welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm Nick your host and
with me the only State Certified death metal summer camp counselor the captain rock and roll
hooo oh I just blew up my V my vocal cords it's good to see you and it's good to be seen yeah welcome to the
Afterparty we are sitting here staying up late garage is open it's starting to cool down outside love the summertime
nights well we had to do a part three of this because it's just so huge and we I
don't even think we're going to cover all the details anyways but we're going to do our best this would have to be
like a 20 parter and I just yeah Captain if you weren't so long- winded we would
have been able to get through this in in two episodes I try to keep my mouth shut
for these but we want to put out uh another episode two episodes in one week uh as a thank you to all the support
that we've got in season 3 and the growing of the show being in Rolling Stone magazine everything that you guys
do for the show it's beautiful we appreciate it and uh we're trying to give you back as much as you give us so
thank you for joining us each week in the garage and thank you to the to our good friends who signed up on the
mailing list and joined the True Crime garage Army and I want to thank Wesley from San Diego California for his
donation huge donation providing the beer and bringing the beer to Afterparty it's very special thanks brought the
beer not just for us but for everybody he rolled in a keg and if you want to support the show just go to True Crime
garage.com we have old episodes bonus episodes uh we sell t-shirts and stuff like that so let's just get done with
the business and let's get right into part three West Memphis yes this is episode three I recommend listening to
them in order but you're welcome to listen to them in any order you see fit so if you want to start with this one
welcome to the Afterparty where we left off the police had just picked up Jesse mkelly Jr they brought him to the police
department and they were going to interview him now they're interested in him because he knows of some characters
that they are interested in Jason Baldwin and Damen Eckles yeah and this is a list that was put together by the
juvenile officer and he basically came up with a list of about eight people that he would say that maybe would have
something to do with these mured and Jesse is interested in talking to the police because one he seems to be a bit
of a helpful character and two uh he has recently found out that there is reward
money and if he knows anything about this case he should tell them uh so that he could help him and his family get
receive that money it's about 10 a.m. when they pick up Jesse misskelly and take him to the police department now
this is approximately a month after the murders so the heat is on for the police
and they need to solve this thing soon because there's Panic there's been three boys that started off missing they were
found dead they were found terribly mutilated and this crime needs to be solved yeah the crime happened on May
5th and now he's being interviewed on June the 3 so they have him and they're talking to him they're going to question
him and they ask him one thing that I found interesting Captain is that they came up with with the help of the FBI
they came up with a list of questions that they should ask people now the some sometimes this is somebody that maybe
they just knocked on their door or maybe that's somebody that was of interest and
they brought them to the police department but they tried to ask most of the people about the same questions and
first thing they want to know is uh does does he know anything about the murders
or has he heard anything about the murders well Jesse would explain to them that he he knew of the murders because
he was on his way to work and he had heard on the news he was going to go do a roofing job and he had heard on the
news that the boys were missing so we can assume that this is May 6th this is not May 5th
because it's being reported in the news now he says that same day he had come home and when he was done with work a
friend of his had told him that the boys had been found so we do know that this is May 6 because they were found in the
afternoon that day right does he know anything about Damen Eckles or does he know anything about Jason Baldwin and he
says yes I know them I know I know Jason Baldwin he's a nice guy and we we've been friends from time to time and I
don't really know Damen Eckles I know who he is I think he's kind of weird uh but I know he's a good friend of Jason
Baldwin's and after they get talking to him for a while they they ask him if he would like to take a polygraph test and
he agrees to it he says he would have no problem doing so and of course they need
again to get the permission from his father they find his father his father's at like a fast food restaurant and he
signs he says yeah sure no problem I'll sign the paper and so now they have permission to give him the polygraph
they ask him only about six or seven questions I don't have them in front of me but basically it's simp it's simple
questions things like uh did you do you know anything about the murders have you
heard anything about the murders do you know who killed these boys yeah it's a questionnaire that they had and in
within those questions they're going to sprinkle in things that may or may not have anything to do with the case that
they're looking into and one of those questions that they ask him is have you ever done drugs um and he basically says
no to most of these questions he doesn't know who killed these boys he doesn't know uh much about the murder no he's
never done drugs and they come back to him and they explain to him you are lying we are know we know that you're
lying but how do we know this machine that we have right it tells us that you're lying secret machine it it's
actually your it's hooked up to your brain and your brain is telling us that you're lying yeah well this confuses
Jesse and he let's go back Jesse's a simple-minded guy yeah so for the people that uh want to point out that the West
Memphis 3 are innocent you will hear them say that he has an IQ as low as 68 or 67 right for the people that want to
say that they're guilty sometimes they report that his IQ is as high as 79 or 80 so it all depends on what side of the
fence you're on and some people like to say like he's has a handicap I don't I don't like to think of him like that I
just think he's very simple and that's the way I'd like to view it so he's confused by being told that he's lying
and they point out to him well we know that you've done drugs because we've seen you sell them and he explains to
them I've never sold them but okay yes I have done drugs so now they're getting him to admit to some things and they
start with what we're going to call an interrogation what I'm going to call they started with questions they moved
on to the polygraph now they're going to say they're questioning him more this is
an interrogation and they believe that he know knows something of these murders and he knows more than just hearing
about it from his friends right so he starts to agree with some of the things that they're telling him and he's going
to start off by telling them that yes he was he was in Robin Hood Hills and he had been there before and he got there
around 900 a.m. yeah and that well he says he woke up at 9:00 a.m. but then he got there about 12 well the the first
the first state portions of the questions he says he was there as early as nine yeah and they will they will
coax him a little bit more and that eventually moves to noon yeah and online it's kind of hard to find but there's
there's two recordings one of the first confession the first statement made and then the second one but you can also
find the one that happened about a year or so later so if you're interested in those those are available on the
internet real quickly I'm going to try to go through the his first confession I'm just going to sum it up real quick
yes and we'll go through uh some questionable things with it but basically he says that that he met Jesse
and I'm sorry that Jesse had met Jason and Damian at Robin Hood Hills and he had got there in the morning time and he
walked he walked there and the other boys had walked there as well and he states that that's when he saw they saw
the three kids and they hollered at him to come into the woods Damen hollered at
him and so the kids come in there and he says that um he saw Damien hit the one boy and bruise him up real bad yeah uh
he says that Jason starts to attack one of the other boys um and then at this point the police are already they're
concerned about this potential confession that they're getting because they know that the police they know that
the kids were at school that day there was no way for them to have been there at 9:00 a.m. or yeah or even if you go
with the 12:00 they're not going to be out of school by that point and he then says well the boy skip school yeah well
he starts off by saying that he didn't go to school I well I didn't go to school and they go well yeah but the
boys were in school and he goes no they skipped school right and um so they're walking him further down the road and
further down on this confession and he starts to get a little more elaborate with what he sees uhuh and he starts to
say you know they they want to know if there was anything sexual going on and he explains that uh that they Damien and
J Jason started screwing them and stuff I believe is pretty much what he said yeah and basically what he's saying is
that they were trying to and then well he said well what do you mean by that he said well that they pulled off their
pants so he was just assuming that they were going to try to screw the boys and then he goes well what makes you so sure
that that is what Daman was going to do and he's like well Daman had his pants unbutton and at some point it's a little
unclear to me if it's if it it wasn't during the interrogation but there was multiple interrogations and there's
different parts that are recorded of the confession right but some things that may have scared Jesse into opening up or
to creating a story to tell them the police use some tactics here they had uh gell Gary gell the lead investigator he
had drawn a circle and he put three dots inside of the circle and he put X's all
around the circle and he told Jesse he said you see the circle those three dots inside well that's you Jason and Damian
those X's all around the circle those are police now do you want to be inside that Circle or do you want to be outside
of that Circle right and he says well I want to be outside of the circle and gell would go on to show him a picture
of one of the Dead Boys yeah now later Jesse would say that this shocked him that that he had saw a picture of of the
face of one of the Dead Boys and he could see that he was all beat up and he was all bruised up right and he probably
had never seen a picture of a dead person let alone a dead child before well hopefully he he never did well this
shocks him well if it couldn't shock him anymore than this shortly afterwards gel
would play a audio tape for Jesse Miss Kelly and what it is is it's a child's voice and he says one sentence the the
boy on the recording says nobody knows what happened but me this terrifies Jesse he doesn't know
what to think of the picture he doesn't know what to think of the recording he doesn't know who's in the recording or
why it that was said well he's going on and on into this confession and it's a lot of back and forth you people have
seen this bits of this confession in the movies in the documentaries you can find
some of it online and those documentaries are Paradise Lost or west of Memphis and I don't know that we're
going to go into every bit of it because we'd be here for another no we'd have another Afterparty after this one I mean
look if you're really interested in this case start with the paradise loss it's not going to give you a bunch of
information I mean start with our start with our podcast obviously uh I'm actually pretty proud of what we've done
so far with the first two parts with the the facts that we're putting out and uh
but check out those documentaries than the west of Memphis and then you were telling me if you're really into this
case you want to check out Devil's notot yeah the devil's not was a book that came out I believe it was definitely
after the first Paradise Lost movie and I believe before the second one I actually think that the second one the
second Paradise loss that starts to implicate maybe John Mark Byers as having been the perpetrator of this
crime uh the devil's not hints around that quite a bit anybody that's read that knows what I'm talking about and
maybe Paradise Lost got that idea from the book and then they recently made a movie uh called Devil's not and I heard
that they changed the the screenplay a little bit because they wanted to have it match with the new evidence that has
come out um but anyways there's this confession and it's very questionable now to me the first statement giv
sounds it sounds like my gut is telling me that he's telling the truth but they're they're also leading him and
then all the information that you know we you you just gave beforehand it just makes you question why is this kid
confessing at all well and when you say the first statement what you're referring to is there's multiple
recordings of the confessions right and you're talking about the first confession that's recorded in its
entirety sounds what you said what it sounds it sounds legitimate to me like my gut is telling me that he's that he's
telling the truth that's my thought but uh nothing else makes sense to me okay well the as far as the confessions go
and I've listened to them in their entirety and I and I know you have as well and I will say let's just go
through some things that are of question okay now these might be things that point towards his guilt or things that
might Point towards him being innocent or that the police are leading or what have you the first thing the obvious
thing that stands out in most people's mind is the times right the time doesn't make any sense with the the
prosecutions um timeline throughout the confessions that were taken on this day the times Jesse will change times eight
times he will give eight different times of day for when he first met up with Damian and and Jason right and then the
investigators are always leading him later in the day they're trying to get away from that 9:00 they're trying to
get away from that noon the investigators know that the boys were last seen around 600 or 6:30 p.m. so
they need they need Damian Jason and Jesse to have met up with those boys at that time or later right not at noon so
as we said Jesse starts off saying nine and then 9 becomes noon and then noon becomes after after after work it was
after work it was about 5:00 well Jesse did you have your watch with you that day no right well then you might not
know what time it was uh you said it was five or six now we're up to six and then
later it becomes seven or eight yeah was it light or was it dark and then gell says well that sums it up because Jesse
says well it was it was getting dark which we we had reported in the first episode that the Moon that the the sun
went down Moon came up about 7:41 that day it's like my favorite line or one of my favorite lines in the movie from
Perks of be and Wallflower the main character asks his dad for a $50 bill the dad says $20 what do you need
for it's like they did the same thing to them it's like uh was it four or five was it okay so five okay was it dark and
then we just keep pushing it back well real quick this is how we got to 7 or 800 p.m. as far as Jesse's concern once
they had got to 5:00 yeah at some point the investigator says now earlier you had told me it was more like seven or
eight and there is no part on any of those Apes now maybe this was a discussion that was off off the tape off
the Record but there was no discussion that was being recorded where Jesse had said earlier that it was seven or eight
now he's leading him up to seven or eight and exactly what you said that the police ask him now was it seven or eight
and Jesse's response is not seven it's not eight he says yeah it was seven or eight right right you pick and not only
that you could pick either one and you'd still be considered guilty there is no right answer unless you're the police
so we have the times there the times are confusing the times are are a problem for the police department and they're a
problem for for Jesse's confession the other part is when they start talking about the boys being tied up now the
police want to know um you know how how were these boys tied up well Jesse says they were tied with rope and that he at
no point does he ever indicate that he understands that the hands were tied to to the ankles remember we said that the
right hand was tied to the right ankle and so on right and he says that their hands were tied with rope what color
rope it was brown rope he says well that's what color rope is and well this is a problem because we know that they
were tied up with shoelaces yeah and they weren't tied with their hands behind their back so again it's it's
this weird thing where it's like okay okay so keep going and not only that Jesse explains that uh they they
couldn't have been hand to to ankle because they they were trying to run the one boy had taken off running right so
they can't run when you're tied hand to ankle and he's the one that went and got
the boy and stopped him so at some point the police have to have him stop the confession and he's going to have to go
through it again because they weren't obviously tied with rope we got to get that right on we got to fix some things
so there's some other problems okay so what one thing that uh just had said was that Jason and Daman had started
screwing them and stuff meaning the victims okay well here's the problem with that we
know how the boys were tied right if they were going to be sodomizing the boys it's probably close
to Impossible with how they were tied without getting into specifics um he does talk about oral sex he asked if
anybody was having oral sex and he does say that dami and Jason were having uh sticking their thingss in their mouths
of two of the boys um he said that they were holding them by the ears now that that is a
problem for Jesse because there are there are injuries to some of the boys if not all of them that would indicate
an act like that occurring Well yeah if you go against science yes uh the police
want to know did Jason well first of all they want to know did Jesse rape any of
the boys and he says no I didn't do any of that one thing you'll notice in these
confessions is that Jesse is constantly he will tell a portion of the story and then he'll say and then that's when I
left and then later they'll get him to tell more of a story and then he go always refers back to the and then
that's when I left and then he'll tell a little bit more and then that's when I left he's constantly trying to get him
out himself out of that or this is the end of the the story now they want to know if any of the uh here's some
problems that they have with Jesse's story when they're talking about the rape of the boys now you will hear more
than one time Jesse will say that Damian raped Myers and both of them raped branches okay so now he's starting to
get the names of the victims wrong he's referring thought you just got him wrong
no he's referring to buyer I I don't know if he's referring to more or buyers but he says Myers right which is kind of
a smashing of the two and then he talks about both of them raping branches um but there's a problem for here's a
problem for Jesse at some point he doesn't realize this but I think he's trying to confirm their story or put
validity to his story he says at some point that the mo boy got away and started to run and that Jesse went and
caught him and brought him back well now he's just implicated himself and he's he's gone
from having witness to rape and murder to now being involved in the actual killing well one he's not doing
anything to stop these attacks happening but then when the one boy goes to get away if it wasn't for him bringing him
back then that boy would have lived exactly based on Jesse's story and not only that maybe whatever was going on
would have stopped because some some Got Away anyway he he's now implicated himself uh the police want to know if
Jason or Damien went down on any of the boys now why do they want to know this well we went through some of the autopsy
and we we're not going to go through it in its entirety because it's it's just too much to take it's you can find it if
you really want to read it uh but one thing that I will point out for you is that there were abrasions there were
damages to uh Stevie Branch's penis uh he had had some bruising on it and they wanted to know if somebody had gone down
on any of the boys because this was something they would have expected something had to happened for him for
those bruises to occur yeah and I mean those bruises would also just be with any sexual
abuse okay so let's talk about something that he had said early in the get-go he
said I'd seen Damian hit this one boy and bruise him up real bad okay well I do believe I do believe that this crime
took a certain amount of time to to occur the way that the things that were done to these boys and the way that they
were left in the woods I believe that it would have taken a certain amount of time for this to occur what I find
strange is here and I'm I'm obviously no doctor Captain I'm just hanging out in the garage with you no you're not a
doctor but to say that he bruised him up real bad I you usually don't punch somebody or hit somebody and they bruise
instantly I I I don't know Jesse's definition of bruise but it seem my definition of bruise is usually
something you see well after the fact yeah but I I don't know I think if you hit somebody I mean they they're going
to get splotchy you know red splotches and stuff the other thing they wanted to know who had a knife Jesse did you have
a knife no nope who had a knife did Damien have a knife nope Jason had a knife yes he did he had SE several
knives uh not not there but he has several knives he has several knives but what knife did he have with them at the
crime scene it's a pull out lock blade so it's it's the kind of Blade that you when you pull it out that it'll lock
into place well Jesse's asked uh you know to describe the knife and he yes he says it's a lock blade and he says it's
about 6 in it's a it's a blade that's about 6 in and what kind of blade is it well the problem with this is he says
it's a regular blade blade right now again I don't know Jess's definition of bruising I don't know his definition of
a regular blade but when I hear somebody say regular blade I'm thinking of a flat
single-edged lock knife the problem with that is they firmly believe that the injuries that were that were suffered by
Christopher buers right when they cut off the scrotum they believed that it was a serrated knife that would have
caused that wound that would have removed that portion of the body he never describes a serrated knife it's a
normal [Music] knife the evidence keeps pouring in at this point the facts are undeniable it's
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[Music] active they Probe on they want to know were were any of the boys dead when you
left cuz he remember he keeps saying that he left now the first couple times no all the boys were still alive when he
left and eventually they get him to the point where he says that yes uh the buyer's boy you know he basic they have
three pictures they have a picture of each boy out on the table and a lot of times he doesn't refer to the boys by
names he'll just point at one of the pictures and say that boy right um and he points at a picture and he says that
boy he was dead they killed him before I left well the investigators might have got tired of him saying the wrong names
and so that might have just been like you just need to point from now on because you calling them Meyers and
stuff doesn't work for what we need you for well and you know what's interesting
to me was at one point ear early in the confession he calls he refers to the buyer boy as Moore which the strange
thing about that was the police and the medical examiner early in the investigation had confused those two
boys as well I always found that strange it doesn't mean anything but I always found it odd that that two of the boys
were confused by multiple people anyway he says that yes the buyer's boy was killed before he had left and they asked
how how he was killed well he they choked him they choked him with the hands and then they choked him with a
stick a little stick yeah and then they threw him into the water and he I believe he says that he
saw him still twitching or his feet still kicking yeah one of them was kicking once he was thrown into the
water and he's referring to the buyer's boy there's a couple problems with that well we don't really know who he's
referring to yeah we do because he says that one right there and gell says you're talking about the buyer's boy I
know but what I'm saying is for for most of the uh interrogation he's switching them up so
okay but for this instance he's talking about he's he's pointing to Christopher buyers now the reason why this is
important is because out of all the out of the three victims when you refer to the autopsy report there was a lot of
damage done to all three of these boys there was more damage done to Christopher buers than anybody else but
one of the few body parts that was not damaged on Christopher buers was his neck there was no indication of having
been choked Strang l or choked with a stick on his neck right and furthermore he didn't drown he was the only boy out
of the three that didn't have water in his lungs he wasad assume that he had died before he put put in the water he
was dead before he was put in the water but according to Jesse he's kicking he was kicking he was still kicking he
would have been exactly he would have been alive and he probably would have inhaled some water at that point yeah
according to the autopsy report Christopher buers died from multiple injuries and had bled out which uh makes
me really feel bad about my gut instincts when I think about what my gut was telling me when I first heard the uh
first interview with them now some things that don't work out well for Jesse in my opinion is they're he he's
asked how did they keep the boys quiet and he says well they they held their hands over their mouths and then at some
point he says that they stuffed their shirts into their mouths well this is this is interesting to me because it's
is not something that I've heard anywhere else um and it wasn't a question that they were specifically
asking him you know did you put a shirt in their mouth right you know there were
other points in these in this confession where he's being led clearly being led but once in a while he's offering up
information without having been led to this answer and this is one of the do we have any proof that they had shirts on
their it could be something he saw in a movie no you're exactly right but what I'm getting at is the people that point
out over and over again that the West Memphis 3 are innocent they will constantly say that oh he was being led
on every single question he wasn't no some of the stuff he was coming up with on his own whether he had seen it or
whether he was making it up at that point now the other problem that I have with his confession that doesn't look
good for Jesse is that he does admit that only one of the boys uh had their penis removed that that were was
castrated but this is also a month afterwards and how many rumors are happening in that town the reason why I
have a problem with that is as we reported in in our first episode what was reported in the newspaper the day
after the boys were found doesn't matter what's reported I understand but what I'm saying is the the what's reported in
that newspaper is what starts off everybody's General understanding of what the police found and that
understanding is that all three boys were sexually mutilated that's what was stated in the newspaper that doesn't
mean that they didn't hear other rumors at month later but what I'm getting at is that's one of the things that you
need to look at that's one of the things that the police were holding close to themselves they they were they were
ashamed that that information had gotten out but they knew that that when they find the right person the right person
would know that only one of them was cast I mean there's yeah one's castrated but one there is abuse to the one of the
kids genitals but keep in mind 4 hours earlier Jesse Miss Kelly knew nothing about this crime so for him to come up
with with something like this and be spot on he goes straight from knowing nothing to knowing something that maybe
only the Poli doesn't mean he doesn't know anything he just answered that he didn't know any he didn't know anything
at the time that doesn't mean he doesn't know something answered as I I get that
what I'm getting at is that this is a problem for Jesse mkelly wouldn't you agree that he knows he knows he's
reporting a fact that is he's reporting something to the police that is fact that the general public may not have
known as fact after this confession is there anything else that you want to touch on in the confession captain no
okay so after the confession the other boys are promptly arrested and now charges are being filed
against all three of them mhm and we're not going to go through all the details of the arrest and how this all went down
but you can imagine what's going on and and most of you out there have seen the Paradise Lost movies or the west of
Memphis movies and and this doesn't go down like you know normal situations they're not giving people the right to
call home right away uh Jason Baldwin's parents don't even know where he's at for a while uh so it's kind of going
down a little funny they're arrested at night and according to Arkansas law they're not really supposed to issue a
warrant for arrest for a nighttime process and that has to that has to have special circumstances and those
circumstances would be that you you would think that the the perpetrators would flee that you would think that
they would try to destroy evidence or that they could uh conspire together to to form a story or you know create a
story of innocence and you don't think this gives them enough reason to arrest them at night no and a reason why is
this was a month later if you're worried about evidence being destroyed well it's
been a month if you're worried about them coming up with a good story doesn't matter though cuz you know within that
last month if you're Damen Eckles and you're Jason Baldwin your buddy that was with you uh he's not being put into
question you don't think it would get around town oh you know they they got uh Jesse misskelly in there and they're
questioning him and if you if you heard that and and you were involved in this wouldn't that give you some time to
start getting rid of stuff one of the boys was a uh the other the other 18-year-old the
adult never had a driver's license or Jas Baldwin was 16 yeah Miss Kelly was 17 right but there's not probable cause
to believe that the two of them have the ability to flee and you and furthermore any any general intelligence
would tell you that they've already had the opportunity to destroy evidence and they've already had the opportunity to
conspire to come up with a good story well I get that but also if these boys were involved they brutally murdered
three kids so the Public's at risk I'm not saying that it shouldn't have happened I'm just saying that it's not
normal it's abnormal for them to issue a warrant for arrest for an evening for the for the nighttime I agree with that
I'm just saying that if if I'm the cops and I find out through a confession or whatever that somebody murdered kids I'm
going to go pick them up as quick as I can yeah you have to get a judge out of bed or away from dinner that night to
come in and issue the warrant and then you go and you apprehend the the the one child and then the the the man uh the
other thing here is one thing we should point out that that goes against this this is bad for the police um they did
spend about 12 hours that day with Jesse Miss Kelly only 41 minutes of that time
ended up on tape or being recorded yeah that's not good that's not good for the police uh the the bad thing for the
people that believe that the West Memphis 3 are innocent would be you know a lot of people point out well they
interrogated him for 12 hours well that's not really the case they picked him up at 10: a.m. and by 2: p.m. he was
he was spitting out of confession right um I don't really love the tactics of showing the picture of the Dead boy
maybe that's General procedure I don't know but uh the strange voice of the boy saying I'm the only one that knows what
happened uh seems there's a lot of questionable things seems odd to me they were definitely a fishing well they've
got the boys they've got them arrested the West Memphis 3 Damen Eckles Jason Baldwin Jesse Melly now they've got to
try these guys right so it's decided that they're all going to be tried as adults and they're going to have two
separate trials which is complete [ __ ] for Jason Baldwin being 16 yeah yeah i' I've always thought actually
that probably Jesse and Jason could have been charged as as youths yeah well Jesse definitely just mentally yeah I
mean anybody that that would have taken some time or if they would have evaluated him further I mean that would
be the logical thing to do what they decide to do they're going to um try Jesse Miss Kelly by himself because um
there there's a certain law and I don't know which it is but unless he's willing
to implicate the other two that he's confessing about then he has to be tried separately so first of all they have
Jesse's trial okay now and this is covered in Paradise Lost one yeah they do they spend a lot of time covering his
case um and and you can see him it's strange you know you see him he doesn't ever really look at the jury he doesn't
look at the well his lawyers tell him to keep his head down so he just looks down
at the ground the whole time and they they later on they wanted to get a public opinion on his his you know what
they thought of how he carried himself in court you know because going into this he was looked at as kind of a local
badass is somebody as a as a boy that like to get in fights and because he wants to be a wrestler yeah he was kind
of a tough kid and a lot of people were shocked when he showed up the court and he's like you said he's only like 5 foot
tall and they see this very small kind of Meek looking person 51 or something like that yeah and and and he gets there
and he spends the entire trial staring at his shoes MH he doesn't look up at anybody as you said the lawyer told him
to do that public opinion was was kind of uh on the fence about that they while some of the people thought that it made
it look like he was scared and intimidated uh which made him look almost innocent um other people thought
that it made him look disinterested or uh you know kind of kind of disassociated with what was going on I
believe Jesse was scared though oh I think he definitely was scared 100% I mean he's locked away he he just wants
to go home to be with his family there's a lot of talk about how like he had a lot of issu
uh separation anxiety from his mother when he was younger so can you imagine what's going through his head now he's
in jail with with no family yeah and there there's some problems going on too outside of the Court his defense
attorney uh stum is is having problems with Jesse when he's trying to put together the case why because Jesse is
when his when Jesse's father is around Jesse's innocent he he he pleads that he's innocent when his father leaves
he's telling his attorney that he's guilty and he he continues to confess to his
attorney what ends up occurring we're going to make this shorter than it than it should be but what ends up occurring
is that the attorney figures out that that Jesse doesn't understand that the defense attorney works for Jesse right
that that he's trying to help him out exactly he figures out that Jesse thinks that the attorney's just another
detective that he's a cop and so he's treating in all fairness he kind of looks like a cop I mean had the beard
and the he exactly he look he looks similar to most of the detectives that Jesse probably spoke with at some point
and I think you had told me that it was through Jesse's father that Jesse's father pointed out to to Junior that
that this guy works for you that he's on your side we're all on your side here and you need to tell the truth yeah well
I think this uh well there was a bunch of stuff going back and forth but even his mom you know was trying to tell him
like look these people are here to help you Jesse ends up being convicted and he's convicted and he's sentenced to
life in prison plus 40 years right and so after you're dead they just leave you in prison for 40 years yeah and and and
then they figure it out 40 years from now yeah but the reason for that I hate to be that that's my cellmate do you
know the reason for that sentence no so he received one he received the life off
for the one murder and then 20 for each yeah because one of the boys he said he caught and brought back and that was
Michael Moore so he received a life sentence for the death of Michael Moore plus 20 years for Stevie Branch plus 20
years for Christopher buers now January of 1994 there is a knife that is presented
to the uh police it's not presented it's uh it's mailed to the police I believe they fedexed it to them h so what knife
is this this is the knife that John Mark buers gave to some of the people I thought you were talking about a
different knife yeah there's lots of knives in this case um and actually I think that when we went through the
evidence that was submitted throughout the time of this investigation it was like what 18 or 19 knives were submitted
as evidence at some point or looked at sent to the crime lab for analysis and one of those knives was a knife that was
given to the people that were recording and videotaping the one of the paradise LW ceran yeah and it was around
Christmas time and John Mark buers had given had gifted them a knife and at some point the person that received the
knife thought that it looked to have been used that maybe there was something on it and this item Could Be Blood well
they decide the good people at HBO decide that they should turn the knife into the police department the police
department then in turn gives it to the crime lab and they are able to determine this is quite strange they're
able to determine that the blood there is blood on the knife and that the blood matches that of Christopher buers well
this is a problem because it's found in the possession of John Mark buers they would go on to ask John Mark buyers
about this knife and how he had received it and what he had done with the knife and would there be any reason why well
it matches but it doesn't match like exactly right it's just the type it's the same type right but for the purpose
of their questioning it matches Christopher buers okay so they're going to interrogate and and interview John
Mark buers about the knife they want to know why that the boy's blood would be on the knife he doesn't know he doesn't
know that there there's no reason why there should be any blood at all they don't bluntly ask him about Christopher
buers he he's he goes on to say that maybe he was using it to cut deer meat or maybe he had used it to cut himself
well using it to cut himself on accident while he was cutting the deer meat might
have saved him a bit because they would later find out and later determine that the blood
that was on that knife also matched his and while this is curious because they're not they're not father and son
biologically that we know of exactly not reported that way exactly but but they he did started seeing her when she's
pregnant so and they have so they end up having similar similar blood now we should be we should point out here that
you're exactly right captain that all that they did is what what is referred to as an alpha test on that which which
really breaks it down they didn't have much DNA testing at the time and all that does is break it down and say that
you can eliminate this person or that person you can't eliminate these other people mhm and so I'm sure that it
probably matches more than just John Mark and Christopher buyers but this was something that they were looking into uh
during the course of putting together the case against Damian and Jason and this is interesting too because there
was another knife that was found before that and that was the knife that was found in the water in the Ponder or lake
behind Jason Baldwin's trailer mhm now this was not a lock knife was it captain no it a called a survival knife so the
blade doesn't bend it just handle and blade yeah it looks like Rambo's knife right yeah like a and this this would be
like a seven or 8 inch blade this is a big Blade the problem with a few of these things too is one one with the
6-in blade that is discussed in Jesse Miss Kelly's confession and this big giant Rambo knife that's found in the
Water behind Jason Baldwin's trailer these are giant knives these are Big knives okay the injuries that were
miniature swords the injuries that were stained to by these boys some of some of
what could be looked at as potential stab wounds uhuh none of them none none of them penetrated the boys more than 2
in so that's a bit of an issue you got all these big giant knives that we're testing now it's not to say that you
couldn't just pick at somebody or or or or lightly go at it but it's improbable in my mind before we can get to the
trial of Damian and Jason there is another confession by Jesse after he's convicted and he's driven by the
deputies to the prison he will offer another confession to these deputies I think at this point he just likes uh the
attention the deputies would go on to uh report what he says to them and I'm not
going to go through the whole uh confession but there are some changes to his story he says that he met up with
Damen and Jason after he got off work um and that things went down a little bit different that they were hanging out in
the woods in the water they had seen the boys Damen called the boys over and Jesse and Jason were hiding and after
Damen grabbed one of the boys the boys started attacking Daman and that's when Jesse and Jason started beating the boys
with sticks most of his confession after that would be about the same he would tell the deputies this again though we
got to point out is according to the deputies mhm uh he would tell the deputies that he lied to the police in
his original confession about the times because he wanted to see if he could trick the police and he also lied about
the rope and he knew that it was shoelaces that had tied the boys but this was recorded I mean so we could go
back and listen to it this this confession was given on the ride from the courthouse to the prison right but
then there was another confession that they they recorded when they were trying to make the deal yes that that would be
a third confession that was given to uh the prosecuting attorneys as well as his
defense attorney Jesse would lat later state that he only gave this confession to the deputies that were driving him to
prison because that they promised him that they would drive his girlfriend to see him in prison if he told them what
really had happened and they had also told him that uh if he didn't if he didn't confess and he didn't testify
against those other boys that what's going to happen is while he's locked away in prison that Damian and Jason was
going to get to his girlfriend uh so regardless he offers up this confession to the deputies and we don't know if it
actually happened or if the deputies made it up uh but as a captain had pointed out there was another confession
that was given to uh the prosecutors as well as the defense attorney and during that confession there is one thing that
comes to light that we haven't heard so far is that he explains that he had been
drinking that day yeah and he was drinking whiskey a couple themes come up Bo he's drinking whiskey boys are
drinking beer and that he also mentions now instead of just running and catching
the kid that he actually actually takes part and attacking the kid yeah that he's be he's
helping to beat up some of the boys and he's even holding some of the boys while
they're being hit by the by uh Daman and Jason uh and he would also say that back
to the whiskey though he would tell the tell them that he was drinking uh Evan Williams I believe was the name of the
brand of whiskey now uh I'm just going to stop you right here cuz if you can find this recording this is very hard to
listen to Back to the whiskey that J Jesse was drinking he says he was drinking that day he says the brand of
whiskey was Evan Williams and now Vicki remember Vicky Hutchinson she would go on to say that she had gave that bottle
to Jesse because he had helped her with something to pay him back and he says that after he left the scene of the
crime that he was walking home and that he had thrown the bottle at an overpass or near an overpass and had broken this
on the side of the U the overpass there and stum his defense attorney refused to
believe that Jesse was guilty and the prosecutors and the investigators were trying to convince the defense attorney
that he was in fact guilty right and so what they did was they went with stum to
go find this broken bottle and they were able to recover at that very overpass that Jesse had mentioned they were able
to recover the neck of a Evan Williams whiskey bottle weird that is weird the big problem with that is remember we had
said earlier that that in that interstate is one one of the most traveled freeways in the United States
and they find this bottleneck about a year after after the crime had taken place a year after the time that he said
he had thrown it now Evan Williams is not a terribly uncommon bottle of whiskey mhm I mean it's well known and
it's probably better known in that area we should try to drink more Whiskey on the
show it' be fun more we'd have a lot of fun on those episodes well we've got to talk about the second trial and the big
thing that comes out in the second trial just beforehand I believe ofense the day
before Jesse says I'm not going to testify against Damian and Jason right now the there we got to be clear here
because Jesse was offered a deal he was going to be offered a reduced sentence of 40 years they're going to get away uh
a life in prison plus 40 years just down to 40 years so and he was only and if you look at par lost the prosecution
states to the family if he doesn't testify we don't have a case that's what they
say and a lot of people would point out well let's think real quick because I I believe Jesse would have been 18 by this
time so he would have been 58 after he served 40 years he would probably get out and be alive or he could you know
after good behavior or whatever might get even more reduced after that point but regardless he doesn't take the deal
a lot of people would point out that this points towards their innocence and I would point out that no this is
probably just a a tactic of legality that his his defense attorney is going to tell the him this is what I would
tell my client look for you to be guilty uh if if they have nothing on Daman or Jason other than your confession then
they can't convict those two guys and as soon as those two guys get off then guess what we're putting into the appeal
process your case and if you go and testify against them it's going to make it much harder for us to appeal your
case later right so he's not really he's not really to me it doesn't present innocence by not testifying against
those guys but I will go further to say that it also does not present that he's guilty either right let's talk about the
evidence that they do have right Captain let's we don't we no longer have this confession and this is what they've
based the whole arrest off of when they went and picked up Daman and Jason so we
have no confession now so what evidence do we have well let's point at Daman first okay so there are some people that
say that they had heard or overheard him saying that he was involved in the case
he would come out many many years later and kind of explain this and one thing I
want to point out I think he's kind of spoton with his explanation of this and I'll tell you why afterwards but the
general story is is that he was at a softball game he was seen at a softball game and he had made reference that he
had either knew what had happened to the boys or he had been involved in killing
the boys right and the reason that he says that this came about was when he went to the softball game people started
kind of pointing at him and looking at him and he could hear them talking about oh there he is that's the guy that
that's the weirdo that killed those kids that's the that he's a Satanist and he's
got an Ault and he and his Ault his cult killed those boys right but Jason Baldwin kind of talks about this that
you know even though that Daman was different and most people saw him as different that it would kind of became a
joke like Daman liked to pack his lunch so which is not a weird thing he just didn't like school lunch so then all the
boys or girls would say oh what you got in your lunch a cat and then Daman would
just go meow you just go along with it but it wasn't like he was being mean or rude or they were even being that rude
it was just kind of of a joke like this guy is just a little different but we seem to like him well and he liked being
strange and he liked poking fun at people and if you thought one thing of him he was happy to let you think that
MH and why why do I believe his explanation this goes back to that Polaroid picture that was taken of him
that police were going around and they were showing this to people and asking if they knew if he was in a cult or if
he was a Satanist or if he was involved in the murder of these boys right you show that enough people now you're
you're like a celebrity in your small little town yeah you're you're you're putting a face and a name to the crime
and people know nothing about this crime and at some point they start talking amongst themselves well he must be
involved because the police showed me a picture and said his name so I absolutely believe that the people at
the softball game said that about him and I bet you he retaliated with something that he probably shouldn't
have said you know they gave him just enough rope and he hung himself well so what other evidence do we have regarding
Daman well there was the knife that was found in uh the lak shore trailer park uh ponded or or L yeah but that knife
was thrown there a year before the murders even took place that that's what they would end up figuring out but they
would still present this as potential evidence in the case now again I don't believe there's no reason to believe
that that knife was involved in this case and furthermore the according to Jesse Miss Kelly's every single one of
his confessions the knife was Jason's it belonged to Jason Jason brought the knife Jason was the one that used the
knife most of the time during the murders however nobody at no point had ever said that that knife that Jesse
described did not match the one that was found in the water right now who what did it match it matched a knife it
matched Rambo's knife and it also matched a knife that several people had pointed out that Damian was known to
have possessed or carried at one point right and based on Jesse's confession Damien didn't use a knife but again it
doesn't matter if I have a Rambo knife or not because that's not the knife that was used in the confession and it was
probably not the knife that was used in the crime at all they they do a lot of hearsay stuff I mean when they have him
read these quotes from one of his journals or one of his folders and he's quoting like he's writing down quotes
from William Shakespeare and Metallica and what's so wrong about that like what that's that's not evidence of anything I
wrote down plenty of Metallica quotes when I was in high school well I don't think you call them quotes though is
they're lyrics but but anyways the point is that you know that's something that you know Damien seems like a guy that's
constantly searching for knowledge so I think it started way back then even though he was a shitty student but I
they use that against him in this trial but it's not evidence it's just speculation or hearsay there were was
eyewitness testimony against Daman somebody had seen Damian near the scene of the crime on May 5th now who was that
that was his girlfriend that was her aunt that had seen him the problem with this eyewitness testimony was that she
never says that she sees Daman with Jason or with Jesse M she sees Damian with her niece Domin well that's a
little strange because at no point in Jesse Miss Kelly's confession is Domin ever present so is this
evidence or is this just something that that might point to him being innocent that of mistaken identity I believe that
the aunt would be able to easily identify the two the two kids you know uh domon and and Damian but did she just
get the the wrong day you know did she just get yeah it could have been it could have been any day what was what
was Damian's uh Alibi for that night he was well he there's a bunch of different
versions but the I think the one that they settle on is that he was talking to some girls on the phone yeah there's a
few things to back up his Alibi for that evening he was with Jason and they had gone to Jason's uncle's house to cut the
grass yeah well this is confirmed by Jason it's also confirmed by Jason's Uncle now this would have taken place
well before the boys had disappeared though because Damien had said that at some point either his father or his
mother had come and picked them up and taken him home on the way home they stopped and they completed several
errands before they got home he says that he believes that he was picked up probably about 5:30 from Jason's uncle's
house now one thing that kind of goes along with his story though is remember they're running errands well one of the
errands is it Damien had been to several Mental Hospitals he he and he was being
treated for depression right so he had a prescription that needed to be picked up
now we [Music] can't we can't say with certainty that Damen was the person that picked up that
prescription however the pharmacy did provide proof that that prescription was picked up that evening that's close
enough and and Daman had said that and that they had stopped on the way home to pick up this prescription this was one
of the errands that they were running and this was this also goes with his mother's story and his father's story as
well yeah it's also kind of goes with Jason's Story as well too yep and you're exactly right once Damien got home he
said he spent the evening at home on the phone with two girls from Memphis Tennessee player player well and the
girls from Memphis Tennessee would say yes we spoke to Daman that evening what's another thing against Damian well
there were some fibers that were found at the crime scene there was a red fiber and there was a green fiber now police
would be able to they remember they searched all of these suspects homes and trailers and during the search they were
able to come up with a fiber that matched the green fiber that was found at the crime scene they found this fiber
in Damian's trailer right however there is a side note there it it it was I don't know what the fiber was from they
don't specifically list what the fiber was from however it was mentioned that this would not be an article of clothing
that would have been worn by Damian that this had come from some kind of green green shirt what I'm getting at is it's
it may not have been a man's shirt it may not have been a shirt that would have fit him at the time he was waiting
on a child to be born maybe it was a piece of child's clothing um so for whatever reason that they don't
specifically say where that fiber came from now they do say the fiber match however the defense would point out that
you could walk into any Wallmart and find a green fiber that would match that fiber that was found or possible you
could walk into any of the victim's homes and probably find a fiber that would match that well that leads us to
the red fiber right so there was a red fiber that was found and this they when they searched Jason Baldwin's trailer
mhm they found a red fiber that matched that fiber right again this was from an article of clothing that would probably
not have been worn by Jason Baldwin do you know what they found that red fiber from it was a red woman's bathrobe it
was his mother's bathrobe so unless he wore the W his mom's bathrobe down to and it could
transfer right right these things can transfer you're exactly right Captain however I mean it's not super likely and
again this red fiber was again another fiber that you could find anything in Walmart yeah or go to the three victim's
homes and try to find that same fiber see I'd I'd have more weight on that if they could tell me oh yeah we went to
the victim's houses and we couldn't find a match to this the thing about Jason Baldwin is other than Jesse
melly's uh confession in that red fiber they had nothing linking Jason Baldwin to this crime right and that's
why they tried him together they tried them together and and the thing is I think bu by association if you would
have tried Jason Baldwin by himself without that confession I don't know how you would get a guilty I don't know how
you get a guilty verdict no well I don't know they got a guilty verdict anyways other than what came out later do you
want to talk about that of course but real quick they are both convicted they are both found guilty and Damen Eckles
receives the death penalty and Jason Baldwin receives life imprisonment after the trial the movies start to come out
we have documentaries coming out we talked about the Paradise Lost movies we talked about the west of Memphis
documentary there's these books coming out well but after the paradise loss documentaries come out it kind of it
goes from a Witch Hunt to hey maybe these guys are not guilty of this crime and a bunch of celebrities start getting
involved people like Johnny Depp Eddie veter the Dixie Chicks and they start raising money for their defense now it's
reported and here's what I hate about this report 10 to 20 million that's a big difference to me so either way it
was a lot of money that was raised am I crazy or does Eddie veter keep popping up in all of our like every other case
we cover he's he's involed eventually Eddie will be on our show I mean he was in the Brian Schaefer case and now he's
in this one yeah he's maybe he's just a true crime fan Eddie thanks for listening thanks for listening um yeah I
believe Marilyn Manson was involved too and you also had uh who was the Black Flag guy I don't know if uh Henry
Rollins I don't know if Marilyn Manson was involved I think there was some pictures and stuff taken afterwards once
they got out and then people started saying how much he was involved I don't know how much he was involved well Damen
Eckles said that uh he was that that Manson was a supporter uh financially as well as emotionally and whatever I
didn't hear that uh but but the reason being was that you know most people but if he said it I agree with him well in
in the public eye Marilyn Manson's not a uh welcomed figure amongst uh most people especially the religious groups
yeah I like him though and he's welcome in the garage yeah but the thing is Damen Eckles is trying to prove that
he's not a because he was basic he was basically proven guilty because it was speculated that he was into Satan and he
was Marilyn thanks for the donation but uh I can't talk so befriending somebody like Marilyn Manson and bringing him to
the Forefront then it looks a little like maybe you are a Satanist not saying that Marilyn Manson is but but it was
agreed upon and I think it might have even been Marilyn Manson's idea was that how about I support you from behind the
scenes because me being involved might might look bad for you yeah yeah totally makes a lot of sense so these guys get
involved Natalie Ms was involved I said Dixie Chicks did you um I included all of them it might have just been her but
so they get involved in this money is being raised and what they're trying to do and this is good because they're
looking for evidence to point to the fact that they're innocent they're also looking for you know little loopholes in
the system they're they're looking for everything but they're also hiring investigators to start questioning
people now in Paradise loss like we said they go after buyers and then if you watch
west of Memphis they go after Hobs the problem with both of these individuals is there's not a lot of evidence that
links either one of these two there is a ton of speculation there is a ton of character uh I don't want to call it
character assassination because I think some of these people are just weird people but it's stuff that attacks their
character just like they did with Damian which is not real evidence you're exactly right exactly
what they did to Damen and Jason and Jesse uh I mean other than the confession of Jesse but but what
happened to Jesse uh Jason and Damian I'm sorry is exactly what happened to Mark buers and then Terry Hobbs and
first of all what what did they have against Mark buers okay they point out that that they he has times of the
evening that he's unaccounted for well he talked to the police officer so much that night I mean he was around police
officers a lot he had a lot of communication with police officers he's asking police officers what should I do
cuz I don't know what to do in this point not only is he around police officers but we just went through his
timeline there's not enough time for him to have committed this crime and to hide
the bodies the way that they were hid they he was around other people almost that entire evening yeah he might have
had 10 minutes here or 5 minutes there by himself but that's not the amount time that it would have taken to conceal
these bodies now they go after him because of a few different things well there's a bite mark on Stevie Branch's
face they think it might be a bite mark it originally came out as a belt like Buckle Mark they thought it was a belt
buckle Mark and when I read the autopsy and from from the testimony of the medical examiner's office and both of
the trials uhhuh there was more than just that there there was not only a belt mark on one of the kids or what
appeared what could have been a belt mark on one of the kids but there was also definitely a bite or could be a
bite on Stevie Branch's face but they actually believe that there was more than one bite on his face there was
always this one bite that was talked about there was believed that there was multiple there was multiple attacks to
the face and several of them looked like they could have been bites that's crazy
now one thing that made him buyers look guilty was he had had his teeth removed or he had lost his teeth right and we're
we're uncertain about how he lost his teeth or why he did didn't have teeth or whatever people claim that because he
replaced his teeth that that was to hide his guilt well then also the bite mark there is a bunch of stuff online um
Terry Hobbs has partials he had partials at the time so partials are where they like make kind of Dentures but they
connect to other teeth and if you look at the imprint that it matches Hobs now I've looked at them it looks pretty
convincing the other problem is is we have to bring into the snap Happ Turtle thing there was marks on the ears nose
mouth possibly face and those might be consistent with uh postmortem bites by the snapping turtles now I should point
out here though that I don't think that regardless if this was uh injuries that were postmortem by snapping turtles or
if they were marks or bite marks or Damage Done to the face or bodies of the boys while they were still alive I don't
really think that snapping turtles being involved points to anybody being innocent no no no uh the the only thing
that it might point to is the the damage that was done to Christopher buers where
they had said that uh you know the removement of the yeah the castration the castration would be would be
something that would be done in a Satanic ritual um so that would be the only thing that might link to somebody
being innocent people also want to point out that Mark buers had uh had moments where he was violent before the boys
were killed he had a he had an instance where he had attacked his first wife um and that was on police record um she
said that he had threatened to kill her and that he was attacking her with a stun gun with like a zapper um and that
was a police record interesting choice of weapons yeah and and that he had been violent after I'll take the knife I'll
take the stun gun well no and then his wife dies mysterious death yeah and he says that uh you know that she died in
bed with him and people have always wondered about that as well um I I don't find anything there I don't see anything
there if there was something there the police would have I think would have dove into that a little more and I don't
think that uh if you review his history and Melissa byer's history they're not the most healthy people and what I mean
by that is at one point Melissa had been on she been using like heroin or some kind of strong drug um and they were
both known to be on and off of pills and maybe cocaine from time to time um so they had had a history of living hard uh
let's say and so it doesn't surprise me that she didn't live to be super old so I mean there's definitely some weird
stuff with Buyers but nothing that really points to him directly no because here's the thing I I don't care if
somebody was you know it's it's not a good thing to ever be violent but I don't care if somebody has a record of
being violent in the past or in the future it it all that matters is was he violent that day was he violent was he
homicidal that day and the problem that I have with that is yes he's a strange bird man there's no arguing that and is
he weird does he did he fail a polygraph test yes did he pass a polygraph test yes did he submit everything that they
asked him to submit yes he submitted blood hair fingerprints they didn't find anything of his ever at the crime scene
and furthermore we just went through a timeline in episode 2 that does not allow a window window of time to do any
of these Deeds also like you said he has to be homicidal that day and so then he
would have to talk to police officers multiple times and to cover up that he spoke to the police more than anybody
else during the search for these boys and not only did he not only he was he the first to call police he had spoken
to several police officers when he was out searching for his boy and not only that he came home at 11 or 12:00 at
night and called the sheriff's department and complained that they weren't doing everything that they could
do to find his son and the other boys right and if you're guilty of it you don't want to go hey cops cops we need
more cops and furthermore he was he was when they said that they were going to investigate the families people that
knew the boys people that didn't know the boys and either a gang or or a cult the the one person out of all the
families that they investigated and talked to more than anybody else was John Mark buers he spoke to them often
willingly and often why he likes to talk okay so what about the people that may or may not have known the boys well this
would be some of the miscellaneous people that the police had spoken to Mr Bojangles yeah so we got the problem
with the Bojangles restaurant the so so yeah real quickly the guy goes the women's restroom he's bloody he's muddy
he leaves some evidence behind they collect it and then they lose the evidence they conveniently lose the
evidence and nothing nothing's known about this guy and unfortunately before the police before rega Meeks can arrive
uh this person has already wandered off according to the manager I think there's
something there because there's some there's there's something about the timing of that you know she arrives
about 8:30 to go talk to the restaurant manager which is a strange time for me because I don't know the boys are last
seen about 6 6:30 it's starting to get dark around that time it's a window of about two hours yeah and nobody knows
who this person is he's not identified and there was an africanamerican hair found at the scene yes there was and
that that has never been fully explained but so it's it's very interesting interesting but it's just a big question
mark and then again we talked about the Vans there were there were multiple sightings of these strange Vans one one
black van was found parked on an abandoned property that was near the woods and that was spotted that night
that was actually spotted by John Mark buyers and several other people that had reported it to police there was also the
uh strange white man that was driving the white van uh some the white man and the white van some reported a young man
in a white van some reported an old man in a white we got a black man and a black van well there was reported a
black man and a white van with a with an Illinois license play okay get it together okay but all at the end of the
day it's a big question mark and we wish we knew more about Mr Bojangles yeah there were also the boys the teenage
boys that reported seeing coming out of Robin Hood Hills by Don Moore the sister
of Michael Moore and that would be the one white male and two black males yeah and we don't know that that means
anything and uh who knows who knows what time that was the girl is she's about 10
years old she's not able to give an accurate time well and it could not be an accurate statement it could have been
three white boys or it could been three black boys were not really for sure so that's just big question mark there but
then there was two gentlemen that left west of Memphis like 10 days after the murders take place and then those boys
head out to California so they uh track those boys down yeah so the the story with those guys about 4 days after the
bodies were found Chris Morgan and Brian Holland they were known in the area they
had prior drug offenses they were kind of on the police spotlight let's say uh they were aware of these characters and
these guys had taken off uh and they had gone for California and they arrested them in
California on May 7 17th 1993 this is an Oceanside now they they picked them up because they're concerned about why
would they what they're going to refer to is flee the area shortly after the murders well they took off about as we
said 4 days after the bodies were found they're picked up on the 17th and they're given polygraph exams now they
are asked similar questions that we mentioned which they don't have to take these tests but they do cuz they're
cooperating and they're doing that um what's it called the survey the FBI survey and
it's it's like we had said the FBI worked with the West Memphis police came up with this questionnaire they're
giving them similar questions that they gave to Jesse misskelly in the in his confession and uh they they come back
and they say well you're lying and uh we we've seen this before right we're going
to interrogate you further well at some point during the interrogation uh one of the boys and I
say boys because these are pretty young men I mean uh they're like 18 19 years old and uh one of them had said that he
might have known one or several of the murdered boys because he had previously driven a a ice cream truck and he had a
route in the neighborhood right so he that makes sense yeah he said that he may have known one or the one or all of
them uh and after at least seen them yeah and after being talked to for a while they held them there for quite
some time and questioned them for quite some time right uh one of them had a drug and alcohol problem um and he had
said that at times he would even experience blackouts and memory lapses um and he couldn't account for some of
his time at some point this interview becomes very heated and at some point he starts he stands up on the chair and
he's yelling at the officers and his exact statement is this do you want me to lie do you want
me to lie do you want me to say that I [ __ ] killed those boys okay maybe I killed them he says something to to that
that's not verba but he's he's yelling that's not a confession he's right he's yelling at these officers and and to be
honest with you if I've read the his whole statement MH I wouldn't say that I would do the exact thing but I I would
probably do something very similar you know because I've always wondered when you see these people being interrogated
and they're being and they know they're innocent and yet these people just keep poking at him and poking at him poking
at him I'm not saying that I would stand up and say yeah I killed him what I'm saying is I could see myself getting
angry and yelling back and and getting verbal and getting hostile with these officers well this actually happened to
me in eighth grade so here's the story this girl somebody throws a full pop can unopen at this little girl and it hits
her in the head and they said I did it so they p pull me down to the police or not to the police to the principal's
office and he's going to town on me right he's going he's saying you did this you know you did this he
polygraphed you and water board you and everything yeah and I'm saying I didn't do this I didn't do this and I couldn't
figure out how I knew I mean one I knew I didn't throw the can but but I knew for a fact that I I didn't do this and
then halfway through him yelling at me I realized I wasn't even on the bus that day I missed the bus and my father had
to take me to school so now I'm screaming I wasn't even on the bus and he's going yes you were and I end up uh
standing up throwing the my chair and then slamming his door on my way out and it broke the door uhoh and then I got in
trouble for that I I got suspended uh like in school suspension but it's [ __ ] anyways you're you're
falsely accusing me of something and I proved that I was even on the bus so I shouldn't got in trouble in the first
place and that proves my point I've always thought that at some point I wouldn't be able to take it anymore and
I would just kind of start yelling at the offic if if you're ever pulled in anywhere uh you should just always ask
for an attorney always ask for an attorney oh well they wouldn't let me I I was asking the principal no not you
I'm talking about these guys in California so here's the real story this is the story that we get told right but
what what we're not told and what what you will find once you dive into this particular part of the case is that
these two guys didn't just get up and leave they received ride from friends of theirs they rodee out there with several
friends of theirs that had was traveling elsewhere and dropped them off along the
way they didn't have any intention of living out the rest of their lives in California or On the Run they planned to
be in California for a few weeks or maybe a month and they wanted to return back to the Memphis area right so it
seems like Hey we're going out that way if you want to visit your sister which that's who they were visiting it was one
of the guys' sisters but hey we're going out that way you want to hit a ride and
not only that they willingly submitted blood and urine samples as well as fingerprints and they they sub they went
along with the polygraph they went along with the interview they went along with
the questioning just like Damen eoll and Jason Baldwin the only thing here is that when they submitted this evidence
to what could be evidence to West Memphis Police don't tell me they lost it they didn't lose it no they didn't
lose it they just there seems to be no they didn't do anything with it all right so they didn't test it well good
job there's plenty of other miscellaneous people to that are involved in this case but that it's also
like we said it's it's just minutia it's just small little incidences of people that had done things in the past that
they question you get about a paragraph worth of notes of an interview that was conducted by by police some of them
submitted uh blood urine uh fingerprints some of them submitted to polygraph test uh none of that seems to
have gone anywhere so now we have what we we're left with Terry Hobbs he's a big question mark well we're left with
Terry Hobs in the west Memphis 3 that's what we're down to so what are the problems with Terry Hobbs this comes
about when 2007 is this comes about before the Alfred play well yeah cuz they they go after buyers first and then
but they start doing tests and like I said the money that was raised they have investigators on the ground and I think
that's where it starts coming from they finally are able to test DNA on this hair sample this hair sample is found in
one of the shoelaces that is binding Michael Moore tying the hand to the ankle now this is it comes back and it
does not what does it do it it it does eliminate Damen Eckles it doesn't match Jesse Miss Kelly and it doesn't match
Jason Baldwin however it is not inconsistent with that of the hair of Terry H meaning it could be his hair but
it's not a exact match no and there's different matches as far as DNA goes so it's just it's not a exact match it's
just in the ballpark and let's talk about this for a second we have what are the percentages they come out and they
say it's 1 and a half% of the population would match this hair mhm something like
that okay so the population at in West Memphis at the time of 1993 is roughly between 25,00 and 30,000 people so that
means that that hair and just the people that live in that area would match Terry
Hobs plus 249 to 299 other people right it's still I mean it's it's suspicious though but then you talk about transfer
I mean one of the boys that was a victim was his stepson and then these boys were
known to play in his house so again that's something that can be transferred we're talking about one hair well and
that's also going under the assumption that Michael Moore was tied up by his own shoelaces one thing that we're not
able to figure out when we look at the evidence is what boy was tied up with what boy shoelaces and just because just
because they were each tied up with shoelaces doesn't mean that they were tied up with their own you're talking
about there there's a chance that that shoelace binding Michael Moore could have been Stevie Branch's shoelace well
and it would make a lot of sense why there's a hair of his stepdad on his shoe now there's another problem though
with Terry Hobs his friend David jacobe they find a hair of his on a tree at the
crime scene well remember with the timeline they both claimed that they were in those woods on the 5th looking
for the boys exactly not only do they both claim it but you also have John Mark Mark buers who who's very convinced
that the two of them are probably guilty he also says he's convinced now though but he was also convinced said the West
Memphis 3 were guilty at the beginning and he he does say in his statement to police at the time this is a statement
given in 1993 that he had saw Terry Hobbs multiple times in the woods when he was
searching Terry Hobbs was searching as well and that he couldn't remember for certain but he he might have had his
friend with him right this is the same friend that would be talking to them underneath the street light so there is
some explanation why those hair or fibers would have been found there yeah and then a lot of the other stuff if you
watch um west of Memphis it's just a lot of stuff that dives into his character and it seems like there's some shady
stuff going on there the problem is the source it's coming from it's coming from
Pam Hobs which is now his ex-wife and they were together for almost 10 years before she started making these claims
yeah at no point in 1993 when she talks to police does she ever say that Terry Hobbs is guilty of anything or suspects
him much bad about him and it's not till years and years and years later and now
mention that I feel bad for Pam Hobs because she seems like somebody and she has the right to you don't have to get
over this tragedy but she seems like somebody that is going to be permanently scarred haunted this event that happened
on May 5th uh changed everything and I don't think for the yeah it's definitely ruined her life and
um you know she's tried to go on but you can tell when she talks um that it's it's with her every day she carries it
around with her um and you have to I mean you it's yeah but she's carrying the burden more than a lot lot of people
would and I and I totally understand that cuz nobody could be in that no it's just impossible to put myself in her
situation it's nothing I've ever experienced and I I I can't believe that it's something that you get over I guess
that at some point it's something that maybe you have to just accept um but uh but it just seems like the a accusations
that she's coming out about Terry Hobbs are so far after the fact that it just hard to believe um so and then there's
talk in like west of Memphis again character stuff well he he shot one of her brothers yeah yeah yeah that does
that doesn't look good right no there's a lot of stuff that does doesn't look good and I well if we're going to bring
that up though we should probably tell a bit of the story of maybe why he shot the brother right well there was
altercation between him and Pam and then she again the day on the 5th calls her family and her you know like we said uh
Terry Hobs is looking and Pam hobbs' dad is is looking so she calls after this altercation and the dad and the brother
come out and the brothers were known to uh kind of harass some of the the female
um well not the females but what happened not the females but the the Pam comes from a big family she's got a
couple sisters she's got a couple brothers and apparently throughout the times growing up in an adulthood that
some of the uh sisters had had problems with boyfriends or husbands yeah and when those problems came up sometimes
dad was notified and sometimes dad showed up with the sons who were willing and able to uh confront and maybe attack
the boyfriend or husband of of the sister yeah of any of the sisters so and now this is what happened with Terry
Hobs and Pam Hobs there's an altercation according to him she got physical first
and then he got physical back um and either way it's not right on both ends yeah nobody should get physical with
anybody but a phone call is made to Dad and then the brother comes out and Terry
I don't know how exactly it went down at that point but but he kind of greets him
with a shotgun or not a shotgun but a a pistol or something he shoot yeah and he
claims that he was attacked and then he was defending himself now here's what we
do know is that there's Pam's side and then there's Terry side and somewhere in the middle is the truth and that's all
we know so there's just a lot of hearsay there's a lot of speculation all you have is this fiber not a fiber but a
hair sample um his timeline doesn't you know there are some spots in his timeline there's it's real weird and
here's the problem though with his timeline you know Pam gives a statement back in May of 93 mhm Terry Hobbs gives
no statement that's not through any fault of his own that's through the fault of the West Memphis Police they
never interview him they came by the house they interviewed Pam and Terry wasn't there that day so they never
bothered to get back around to interviewing Terry now furthermore when they interview Pam it's a short
interview there's basically a couple sentences to describe what she says that that she was doing and her husband were
were doing that day and they just take it as fact and they left it at that now so these reports were not coming out
there's not good reports coming out there's not a good solid interview of Pam hobs or Terry Hobs until 2007 and
this carries on to David jacobe as well he's not interviewed until 2007 yeah and
then they're re interviewed for the West uh west of Memphis documentary and then
the because of this documentary the police go back and interview Terry Hobbs and you can watch that whole uh it's not
an interrogation it's definitely uh a casual interview I wouldn't call it interrogation um you can watch all that
online I think there's definitely some stuff that seems fishy but at the end of the day where's the evidence this this
hair that matches so many other people and as far as transferring goes it makes a lot of sense so again another person
where there's just not not enough pointing at him and then the stuff that are pointing at the things that they do
point at him look where it's coming from what about the knife here's another knife that's brought into this case yeah
the the the pocket knife yeah Stevie Branch was Boy Scout yeah and so he had this little pocket knife and so Pam Hobs
claims that he would have had that pocketknife on him that day so then the boys are found and later on like a year
or so later she finds the knife and Terry Hobbs is like night Dan mhm and yeah she says that that Stevie would
not have gone anywhere without that knife here's a couple things about that first of all he came home from school
and he left almost immediately to go out and play after coming home from school so chances are they didn't take the
knife to school everybody knows you shouldn't carry a knife to school doesn't stop some boys but but I'm
guessing he probably didn't have it with him and he wasn't at home long enough to
think about grabbing it again then Terry hobbs' story is that he was messing around with a knife and he just thought
my boy doesn't need to have this knife he's messing around with it he's not being responsible with it and Terry Hobs
is not saying I took the knife from him on May 5th he's saying I took it to him prior to May right and that's something
again he's a stepfather so he's disciplining some you know I was a stepfather before so I I've had the same
situation one of my boys was messing around with a knife and I had to say to him hey can you can you not do that
that's not responsible this is not a toy and and I had to take it away and I put
it into a little box and then one day U my wife sees you know my ex-wife sees the knife and uh says what's this and I
had to explain the situation and it's the same situation as Terry hops another thing
that I want to bring up is how the police acted shortly after finding the bodies remember in episode one we had
said that all of the items all of the clothing that was reported to be on the persons of the missing boys all of it
was recovered with the exception of a single sock and two pair of underwear right so so that's all that was was
missing now later this was days after the bodies were found police went to the families and they had said could there
have been anything else with these boys that we didn't find could there be anything that you could think of would
any of them have had a pocket knife and specifically say pocket knife would any of them have had a billfold would any of
them have a pin on their hat or a pin on their shirt the reason why they're asking about these things is because
they want to know if they pick somebody up or they're searching somebody's home and they come across one of these items
they've found their person right no items there there at one point uh the buyer family says that they're that that
Christopher may have carried a bill fold with him at one point um I believe the mo family says that Michael may have had
a pin on his shirt or he may have had a pocket Scout stuff yeah exactly so there's a few things that are brought up
that they may have had none of the parents are able to say with certainty that that any other items that that that
weren't already located were on any of those boys Pam Hobs never mentions this pocket knife yeah it's something that
seems like it's always after the fact you know it's after the fact and now let's point the finger and so yeah is it
is Hobbs a little fishy yes a little fishy and with the bite marks I'm telling you if you look up the bite
marks and the partial he had it just looks I mean it looks like a Zach match it's not enough for me to say that he's
guilty I look keep looking into him maybe you'll find something maybe you'll get a confession one day I don't know
but uh there's not enough for me to point to him saying hey this guy's guilty that leaves us with the West
Memphis 3 now we have we all know that they took an Alfred plea what is that that means that they are going to con
they're going to uh say that they're guilty well no no they're they're they're going to claim their innocence
but they're pleading guilty yes and so the judge accepts their plea uh this was in
2011 and immediately after accepting their plea he sentenced all three of them to 18 years and 78 days right the
time served so the reason why this came about was because of all this new evidence that they're uncovering the DNA
and then we have the guy on the jury you want to talk about that real quick yeah
so the jury Foreman uh he was in charge of the jury he's going to lead all their
little meetings that they have and the problem that they have is they're able to figure out by reviewing the notes
that were taken by the jurors that at some point somebody had brought up the confession that Jesse Melly had given
right and if you remember us saying the confession was not allowed to try Jason or Damian it was not allowed to be uh
brought forth into the court it was not allowed to be discussed and you could not use that confession to weigh their
guilt or innocence right so when people saw these documentaries which are not complete it's not a bunch of facts it's
just it's a lot of these documentaries are entertainment based but when you see this and you go well
how the hell did they find them guilty there's not enough evidence well when somebody's saying there was a confession
saying that these three boys did it well that's probably why they were found guilty so are they guilty there are
people coming out and saying you know what they got off they got off pretty good well here's what's interesting is
when they're first arrested burn them hang them and then all of a sudden they're victims free them free them
people go back and forth and then they get out now everybody wants to now they're guilty again and there's people
like William Ram uh he did a documentary called Abomination he talks a lot about the
cult stuff again a lot of stuff he's bringing up is a lot of hearsay and speculation here's one of the things and
this is very freaky but talks about Daman eckl's having a spirit number his Spirit number being five what month did
these happen in May which is the fifth month what day the fifth month on a full moon when he's at the softball field and
he's talking about murders he says I killed these three boys I'm going to kill two more which would mean five so
if you go with this whole Spirit number or whatever yeah it's a little freaky but I don't know how much it adds up
it's it's just again a lot of speculation and dami Eckles seems to like to play uh I don't want to say
devil's advocate he kind of likes to play into people I think he likes to poke the Bear right is what he likes to
do but but can but you as you had said or we're trying to say I believe is it that whole Spirit number that whole
Spirit number thing is no different than convicting somebody because they have long hair or wear black clothes or you
listen to Metallica so therefore You're a murderer that's not how it works is there anything so do you think the West
Memphis 3 are guilty I don't think they are I mean I can't say that 100% because
his first statement just feels real but everything that Jason Baldwin says feels
real to me so my maybe my gut is just wrong completely and Baldwin has always claimed innocence and furthermore not
only that when when the prosecution didn't believe that the trial the second trial that of Damen and Jason when they
didn't believe it was going their way and when they lost the confession of Jesse Miss Kelly they went to Jason
Baldwin and offered him a bargain yeah they they were going to they were going to bargain and barter with him and they
were willing to get him a 40-year sentence if he would testify against Damen Eckles well and he also didn't
want to take the Alfred plead cuz he knew that once they took the plead that the state would then stop their
investigation now what I think my gut was telling me is that people fed uh Jesse Melly a little bit and he's simple
so I think he believed some of it and that's why it came off as authentic but I don't I just don't think that there's
not enough for me to say that they're guilty there's not enough for me to say they're 100% innocent either but uh they
weren't be they wouldn't be the first people that I want to dive much into and I do so those are my thoughts I think
Jesse's simple and I believe a lot what Jason Baldwin says as far as Daman Eckles I think he says some weird stuff
and pokes to bear like you were saying I I'm in your Camp man I I I believe that
there are there's a couple things that point towards their guilt and there's a lot of things that point to their
innocence I can't can't say that they're innocent can't say that they're guilty what I can say is I have a really hard
time believing that there was enough to try anybody here um I I maybe you could try Jesse mkelly but once that
confession was thrown out there was no evidence in my opinion against Damien or Jason and furthermore I believe that
Jason should have been tried separately I believe he was only convicted because he was tried with Damien and Damen was
convicted on his bad name and his bad reputation and yeah and he was also convicted on you know searching for
answers and when somebody is thirsty for knowledge this is not something that we
should be afraid of this is something that especially in an 18-year-old boy he's becoming a young man by searching
for answers and by searching for knowledge is how you're going to get there and there's a million people that
search for answers but they weren't in some um small-minded closed-minded town to get crucified for such and I've
always thought that Jason and Jesse should have been tried as children I understand that this is a heinous crime
and a horrible crime but as far as the Judicial Systems as I'm concerned yeah I'm not weighing the crime here what I'm
weighing is the people that are on trial and the evidence against them MH and there wasn't much there wasn't really
anything at all and I guess I would air on the side of caution that we're making
a big mistake here and we would better would be better off to try them as juveniles than adults they were both
juveniles and U I mean Jason was 16 and Miss Kelly was uh might not be dealing with a full deck yeah and I hope their
effort doesn't stop I know that they're out I know that they're free I don't know if their names cleared completely
because they took that odd plead uh plea deal I I know that the the public opinion with them kind of goes back and
forth guilty innocent and it always seems to be this everchanging thing these guys have the power I'm not saying
that they need to or should or have to spend any more time they spent 18 years in prison for something they probably
didn't do but they have the power to keep getting resources and saying it's not enough that we're out of jail it's
we need answers on this case and it's only going to come from pressure but that requires the state to try somebody
for this case and the problem with that is they already have three people that are on the books guilty and have been
convicted of no and I understand that but what I'm saying is is right now you got little sprinkles of evidence towards
Hobs you got a little sprinkle of evidence towards buyers you have a little bit of sprinkle of evidence
towards Mr Bojangles little little bit from West Memphis 3 that's not enough we need more we need we need something that
you know makes us go oh that's something we can't dispute I'll go on record here
and I believe John Mark bers got absolutely railroaded in this whole thing I believe that yes he's he's a
strange dude but there's some sprinkles of evidence there's some tidbits yeah there's some morsels and mor and it's
it's it's strange and it's a strange case however when again when I'm going to keep going back to the timeline of
that night and that morning there was just no time for him to do it whether you think he's capable or not there was
no time for him to do any of this and I will go back to that every single time I
think he got absolutely railroaded I think if the people that put together Paradise Lost 2 and if the author that
put together the devil's not now I want to go on record here the devil's not is a fantastic book If you like this case
you should definitely read your recommended reading that's my recommended reading however I think that
those two things railroaded buyers and I think that if that that author and the producers of that film would have spent
enough time looking at his whereabouts that evening and what they would never have made him a suspect they would never
even considered him and how much time did that waste how how much time did people look into this guy when they
could have been looking into somebody else anyways Terry Hobbs is the more likely suspect because there are some
times in his timeline that that would present uh some holes there's a little bit of holes there's not big holes
though I would be expecting to see big gaps we have that hair and that I mean again I think that's a transfer thing
that's what I believe not only that it matches 1.1% of the people in the area and everybody in the world and you're
talking about you're talking about what a football field or or two football fields away from one of the most
traveled freeways in in America and who's to say that somebody didn't stop off at the Blue Beacon and see these
kids and do something terrible who's to say that there wasn't a pedophile or some monster in the neighborhood that
that did something to these boys and the and the the uh African-American hair is
still not explained and that was found damn near on one of the bodies it was found in the sheet wrapping the buyer
boy now this case reminds me of OJ I mean yeah we did three parts of that but it
reminds me of OJ because it's so huge and there's so much to dive into and there's so much out there some just
[ __ ] but there was a lot tons of facts on this that you can find actual facts and actual uh evidence on this
case but I feel like I had a stronger op opinion before we started this case and
now at the end of it uh I'm just not super certain either way other than there's not much evidence to point
towards anybody I can't point to anything that would point to somebody but what I can point to is I believe
that had they taken this investigation and done it properly there was no reason to to assume that a gang or a cult or
Satanist were involved in this crime there was nothing that showed that at the scene to believe that well I mean
other than the fact that there's three victims and so if it's if it's one murderer they have to control three
victims exactly I get that but what I'm getting at is it doesn't mean that you're sworn into some gang or some cult
or your Satanist that that have to carry this out it just means that you got three or two screwed up individuals that
are homicidal Maniacs that that we've got to find yeah or one that's very clever so there in my opinion there was
no reason for the investigation to take that route and first of all if they would have spent the the proper amount
of time and taken the proper amount of notes and conducted the right interviews and collected the right amount of
evidence from all of the family members of the victims if they would have spent time on that then I I really believe
that we would have never discussed John Mark buers we would have never discussed
Terry Hobbs because I believe that those people along with the other family members would have been cleared in the
get-go from this thing and we wouldn't have to sit around and argue about this right or speculate because we don't know
there's just holes there's holes in their timeline but there's also just holes in the investigation and I don't
know that this means that somebody that didn't know the boys committed the crime
what I'm getting at is I don't believe the West Memphis 3 did it I don't believe that that any of the family
members did it I think that this is somebody that uh is either unknown to the police or somebody that they had
interviewed at some point in their investigation yeah and you told me about a week ago which made me so mad that you
don't know if this will ever be solved I I actually believe that it will never be
solved and and the reason being is because of that Alfred plea I believe that the state of Arkansas has no uh
motivation to solve this case this is off their books as far as they're concerned all right so we had to end it
on a big bang want to thank everybody for uh a great season two and onward and upward to season 3 yeah things are going
to be big and great and fantastic in season 3 can't wait and thanks for the support we're glad that we could put out
um two episodes this week yes we are as much as it pained me uh being in the garage with you all night long you kind
of smelled you were a little stinky in the garage well until next season be good be kind and don't
Litter thank you thank you that is why I won't do two shows a night anymore babe I won't
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West Memphis 3 /// Jessie, Jason and Damien

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Part 3- Jessie, Jason and Damien

We discuss some police tips and Jessie Misskelley, Jason Baldwin and Damien Echols. We will try to get to the bottom of it all. Are they guilty? If not who is, Mark Byers? Terry Hobbs? The strange man seen at the Bojangles? Join us for this double feature, the follow up to yesterday's show. Welcome to the after party!

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the West Memphis 3 case, focusing on confessions, trials, and evidence related to the murders of three boys.

Key points

Life-Resistant Furniture. Ashley’s new furniture collection withstands spills and muddy paws, perfect for family life.
Confession Under Pressure. Jesse Misskelly is interrogated about the murders, revealing inconsistencies in his statements.
Self-Incrimination in Confession. Jesse's narrative shifts from being a witness to being involved in the crime.
Victim's Death Contradiction. Jesse claims a victim was alive when he left, contradicting autopsy findings.
Arrest Warrant Controversy. The discussion revolves around the justification for a nighttime arrest warrant.
Confessions and Confusion. Multiple confessions from Jesse raise questions about his guilt and understanding of the situation.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Hatefulness and ignorance always fail in the face of intelligence and love.

A powerful statement about resilience and unity

4:58WatchMay 6, 2024

Tension

55/ 100Some tension

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