The Suspects Next Door | "Candyman" | "48 Hours" Podcast (Episode 3) | Forensic Files

from day one it was clear Ruthie May McCoy's murder wasn't going to be an open and shut
case reporter Steve bagira who wrote for the Chicago Reader recognized early on that making sense of what happened that
night in April 1987 was going to be difficult for detectives it's a tough case for police
in large part because the relationship between police and the residents at these Pro
most residents already had a fra relationship with the police but even for the ones who were willing to talk
how could they be sure detectives would protect them from retaliation finding Witnesses would be a
challenge but that wasn't the only reason the motive itself was a mystery of the thousands of residents at
Abbott homes why was this grandmother killed was this random or was she targeted to find Clues detectiv started
digging into where Ruthie may spend her time Steve bogira says she suffered from
severe paranoia so she got connected with his Psychiatric Center at Mount Si Ruthie May got enrolled in an outpatient
treatment facility through the hospital to take care of her mental health and after a lifetime of struggle Ruthie May
was finally beginning to make Headway she started taking high school equivalency classes to get her GED and
the Psychiatric Center even helped her take a big step toward moving out of the projects the people at that Center
realized that she qualified because of her mental illness for supplemental security income according to Steve that
increased our Social Security checks from about $150 a month to about 350 this would allow her eventually to
get out of the project which was what she wanted she wanted to be able to get back out there in private housing and
she couldn't afford anything extravagant but she could afford to live outside the
project this new income ended up being a [Music] windfall the first check she got
included some retroactive pay retroactive to the time she had applied so she got a check for
$1,979 I believe it was which I believe she cashed and kept the money in her apartment she bought herself a couple
nice things a plain winter coat and couple of other things which unfortunately also made her a Target
detectives came to feel that people in the project probably noticed and thought she had some money in the apartment and
that may be the reason that they broke in on her listen when you're hungry anyone of the comeup starts to look like
food and the community at abbit homes was starving in a phone interview Ruthie May neighbor Deborah lassley remembered
when her friend got that check she went to the mailbox I know she said she was going down there and she was happy she
said that Ruthie May wasn't too loud when she told her about the check but that it is possible that someone
heard so detectives began thinking that ruy May's big payday might have been a motive for murder so it could be that
the thing that the Psychiatric Center did to help Ruthie may possibly move out of the project got her killed
instead but what detectives felt and what they could prove were two different things the
story's changed several times my partner and I very seldom took notes the first time around because they were always
usually lies I'm Dom Pungo from 48 hours this is Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder
episode three the suspects next [Music] door I was upset that she had to lay in her own apartment for 2 days before
somebody found her nobody deserves that former detective Anthony Manina investigated the murder of Ruthie May
McCoy it was our case uh myself Ry loer and Bill Wright back in in 1987 Manina would have been in his early 40s I was a
detective in homicide from uh 1985 to 1995 when I retired he's from Chicago he grew up on the west side as a matter of
fact the projects that you were talking about were very close to where I lived he and detective Ray loer were partners
for nearly eight years we used to have our own way of doing things the ability to think alike and to know what each
other is thinking just with a look the detectives were assigned the case soon after Ruthie May's body was found Manina
had worked many cases out of Abbott homes and was very familiar with it there were a lot of good people that
lived in them projects but even as they approached the brick highrise they stayed on high
[Music] alert when you were going in you had to be very careful looking up at the
windows because people be D dropping stuff on you all all day long garbage at you or throwing different things out the
windows at you they also avoided the elevators at the time good policemen never used the elevators in them
projects for lack of a better term they were moving urinals and hardly ever worked right so it was a dangerous
situation Manina wasn't one of the responding officers but he put the blame on the Chicago Housing Authority and the
cha security for being difficult about opening Ruthie May's door the project manager for Ruthie May's building later
said she didn't know why the first key given to police didn't work I that really upset
me I was ranting and raving against the CH police at that time because of that fact he says that there were a lot of
hoax calls that came into the police department but says he still didn't believe that that was a good excuse for
the slow response but he was trying to get him with the key and couldn't do it hey go back somewhere and get a
locksmith and get in there he didn't want the police to let Ruthie May down again as I hear this poor woman got
killed in her own apartment not bothering anybody so we worked our butts off to try to clear that one and we did within
two days the city of Chicago that particular time had over 900 homicides for the year so I mean
it's it's like we were working a different homicide every day so therefore you couldn't hand the case off
to other detectives because they were busy going on another one 24-hour shifts happened regularly we were considered
area 4 that was the entire West Side the detectives started asking everyone they
could find what they knew about the night Ruthie May was killed then we found Witnesses doing a canvas that
heard the shots they heard three or four shots and they started talking about who
was in their apartment the witnesses repeated the same two names Edward Turner who was nicknamed
Monae and then John hondras who went by white boy they were both named the stories changed several times which was
you see my partner and I very seldom took notes the first time around because they were always usually Li the
detective strategy was to go around talk to everyone and then repeat all the questioning again and once you caught
him in several lies then you started getting to the basic facts and the truth the detective's key witness turned out
to be 20-year-old Tim brown brown was described as a scny guy back then he told police that he saw Turner and
hondras come in and out of Ruthie May's apartment with a TV and a rocking chair Manina and his partner had Brown come
meet with an assistant States Attorney to create a written record of his version of events Steve buera has a copy
of Brown's written statement Tim Brown said that he was with some friends that night that afternoon and
that evening leading up to the time when Ruthie May was killed Brown told the detectives that he regularly hung out in
the apartment next to Ruthie Mays 11:08 and this day was no different there were
young men primarily men but sometimes women were in the apartment as well getting high and they were selling drugs
from this apartment Tim Brown told the police that he'd been there with a friend earlier in the day in that
afternoon they moved some weights from another apartment up to 11:08 to work out Brown's girlfriend was there too
she left at 600 to go to her grandmother's house while Brown and his friend stayed sitting around and
listening to the stereo Tim Brown said that Miss May as he called her had asked him earlier in the year if they could
keep the noise down from the apartment a number of guys won 11:08 pretty late into the
evening Brown told the police who had come through that night John hondras Edward Turner
and a friend nicknamed Bo at one point as the night wore on he said Bo wanted to show HRA what he learned about the
medicine cabinets in Abbott holes Bo told hondras that the bathroom mirror open to the next apartment to apartment
1109 and that that was how people broke into Apartments it would be that easy to
get into the neighboring apartment where Ruthie May the woman with the night nice
things lived so uh little later that evening hondes and Turner were back in the bathroom according to Brown and
hondras pulled the mirror in 1108 out with his hands Edward Turner was a teenager who lived in abbid hommes his
family knew Ruthie May Turner had grown up I believe in the projects Hondas had spent some time there as well John
hondras the man who allegedly pulled the mirror out in 1108 was 21 and an excon he was a tough character the other guy
was more of a thief than anything [Music] else HR had done time in an Indiana prison for robbery and auto theft that
night after the medicine cabinet was removed hondras and Turner could allegedly look straight into Ruthie
May's apartment and it looked to them like maybe the apartment next door was baked
in a statement of police Brown claims that he warned hondras that Miss may live there but the apartment at least at
first looked empty HRA said back to Brown according to Brown that he didn't think anyone was home and then he
climbed on the sink and went through the hole Brown said that he then heard a lady say who's there after hearing the
voice Brown then claimed that he heard the front door to Ruthie May's apartment 11:09
open and then a knock on 11:08 and so he answers the door and hondras tells him to throw him a
jacket his jacket so Brown gives him his jacket it was a black nylon jacket hondras threw it over his head and went
back into 1109 through the front door this time so by now one suspect was in Ruthie May's
apartment that's what brown told the cops he also said he saw the second suspect Edward Turner go through the
hole in the wall and that's when things supposedly went off the rails and he heard Turner say get down
and then Brown said he heard four shots four shots then silence 5 or 10 minutes later he said
both Turner and H left Ruthie May's apartment but Brown said they didn't leave empty-handed he
saw a Turner come out with a TV and hondras come out with a rocking chair Brown claimed that both of them took the
stolen property and made a run for it detectives talked to a couple of women who lived on the sixth floor of the same
building who said that hress and Turner came to them with the TV and the rocking
chair one of the young women in the apartment that night Lynette Fitch was Tim Brown's girlfriend she told the
police that HR wanted them to stash the stolen items at her place he had come into her apartment and tried to leave
the rocking chair in the TV in her apartment and she wouldn't allow it and she suggested that they try another
woman who lived on the first floor of another Avid HR and they ultimately took the TV and rocking chair to This Woman's
apartment dep she acknowledged the T to the police that she had agreed to take the TV in the rocking chair to hold it
for hress Turner after they found a place to hide the stolen goods Brown said that they
came back to the 11th floor according to Brown's statement two or three hours later hress Turner knocked on
1108 and when Tim Brown answered HR said they needed to go back to miss May's apartment to get the shells from the gun
Brown didn't want them to crawl back through the bathroom mirror so he told the police he said no they went into her
apartment through the front door and came out about five minutes later Andress told Brown they had found three
of the shells they locked the door behind them and then ran down the hall cops found one shell casing behind the
bedroom door but other parts of Brown's statement didn't entirely match what police officers experienced
see brown claimed this happened after 11:30 at night but police had already shown up to Ruthie May's apartment after
she called 911 at 8:45 and when they showed up the front door was locked not unlocked the way
Brown described the police never recovered the gun or any fingerprints police didn't have this
physical evidence and they also had given a head start to the offenders to get their stories solid but Brown's
statement and the statements of the other Witnesses make detectives confident that hondras and Turner were
their Prime suspects there was testimony saying they went in there and come out with with three bullet
casings and the TV and the set and the rocking chair were found at the one guy's mother's house come on detective
stopped at Turner's house and spoke with his mom elth the Turner we left business
cards and and I kind of talked her into calling us when he returned home a while
later she called us that they were waiting for us so we went back to the 1407 troop and that's when he was placed
into custody he was arrested on April 25th his 19th birthday meanwhile hondras the ex-convict managed to avoid arrest
for more than a month police finally caught up with him on June 8th 1987 both hondras and Turner denied
being involved in the murder of Ruthie May Manina remembers Turner giving a couple different stories as to how he
found the TV the first story said that he had found the TV up by the incinerator then the next story was he
found it outside the door until we finally got him to admit that he you got it out of the apartment
the prosecution planned to rely on their key witness Tim Brown who was adamant that hress and Turner were the culprits
it was within two days that we soled that hress and Turner each fac charges of burglary and murder and would have to
wait years for their day in court they both pleaded not guilty in the meantime Ruthie May's
family pursued another kind of Justice they believe she might still be alive if the Chicago Housing Authority had
designed the medicine cabinets differently so verita McCoy ruie May's daughter wanted the cha to pay for what
happened so she got herself a lawyer well her mother died and her mother died by way of uh bizar set of facts and Mr
Peters can you help me and I said I don't know but I'll try the day after Ruthie May called 911 her
daughter Vita tried getting in touch with her she called Ruthie may not realizing that her mom was already
gone Bita said her aunt was the one who eventually broke the news she just didn't understand nor did I how the hell
something like this happened and was permitted to happen that's attorney Randy Peters he'd
eventually end up representing verita when she sued the Chicago Housing Authority Randy also grew up in Chicago
while I was still figuring out what I wanted to do I saw a movie called All the President's Men All the President's
Men tells the story of two Washington Post reporters who uncover the details of the Watergate scandal their reporting
helped lead to president Richard Nixon's resignation and that movie for whatever the reasons
it may have been just got me interested in law my father is a uh factory worker was a factory worker mother was a
housewife and no no lawyers in our family but that movie really touched me so I decided that maybe uh give it a
shot he was in his mid-30s back in 1987 and still pretty new the law at that that point in his career Randy said he
took on several cases against the Chicago Housing Authority and one of his clients was Vita McCoy she since died
but Vita was just 25 when she lost her mother I just assured her that I would do everything I can Randy said he agreed
to take the case because he was horrified by the circumstances Ruthie May was living in the bizarre facts of
what happened I mean how how many people do you know that live in a an apartment
building or a condominium have the worries and concerns about the adjoining unit being able to crawl through your
medicine cabinet to get into your unit absolutely bizarre Randy knew that in order to win this case he needed to
prove that there was a problem long before Ruthie May was murdered you have to show notice of whatever the event was
that caused in this particular case a death and to be able to develop evidence to show that it was preventable it was
foreseeable and preventable and as Randy started looking at the way the housing projects were designed he realized the
medicine cabinets were not the only problem where she was living was a cha project that was not conducive to safety
too often elevators didn't work incinerators didn't work and without incinerators burning up trash the
hallway smelled and residents worried about an Ever growing fire Hazard there was also this problem with
access for emergency vehicles see the high-rises had these huge Courtyards that didn't allow for through traffic
which meant police and ambulances couldn't quickly drive up to the buildings so in other words if someone
wants to commit a crime in that area the crime is committed and they're gone before the police can get to the
location it was a mess but Randy needed to prove that the Chicago Housing Authority purposely neglected these
buildings and that specifically they did nothing to make Ruthie May's apartment safer for his investigation he did a
couple of things Randy filed a court order to get access to the police report and the names of the officers who
reported to the scene but then he went a step further he brought in an architect
to explain how the design of the buildings themselves posed a risk to Residents I for the life of me couldn't
figure out how somebody in Unit A could call crawl through a medicine cabinet into Unit B he said that the architect
looked at the structure of Abbott Holmes and the way they built the pipe Chase to
give janitors that easy access to the pipes my architect was shocked when uh he saw how this was created literally
shocked and not only shocked at that but also shocked by the fact that the record
showed that the cha was on no notice that this type of activity was happening and nothing was done
structurally to remedy uh that [Music] Hazard at the time the cha told Steve begera that they received quote only
isolated reports of such break-ins they estimated fewer than 10 Randy thought the evidence made this case a slam dunk
the police report and the architect gave him what he needed and with those facts
then it gave me the opportunity to show that there was negligence on the part of the cha by
permitting this ease of access to continue reny believed the cha had multiple ways to safeguard the projects
and certainly the medicine cabinets and it was easily preventable by way of either altering the design of the
medicine cabinets by hinges and nails and locks or whatever to prevent them from removing it from the wall Andor
number two because of the history of this type of activity occurring to have adequate security that was present as a
deterrent neither of which they had Randy said the cha denied having any liability at the end of the day Randy
thought that all of this came down to one thing money once Randy thought he had a strong case the question became
what's it worth uh we have to take a look at uh how we could maximize the amount of recovery for any individual
whether they be black white rich [Music] poor in April 1988 he sued the Chicago Housing Authority demanding one .5
million for the death of Ruthie May McCoy she was somebody's mother and she was loved and she was respected for who
she was he didn't actually expect to win $1.5 million in these kinds of lawsuits
the amount you get depends on a number of factors a person's assets their social status if they have dependence
and Ruthie May didn't by then ver was an adult and unfortunately Ruthie May was unemployed issues with mental
handicaps not married poor and it comes down to uh unfortunately lawyers had in these types of case have to put a value
on a life but Randy said that this case wasn't about money this was about accountability it didn't become a a
question in my mind of I'm going to make a lot of money on this case because I knew I wasn't his goal was to get the
cha to admit it had failed by way of getting the estate compensated to some degree to show them that there was some
remorse and some sorrow so to speak of what they were experiencing and some restitution for
the people that Ruthie May cared for while she wasn't technically a dependent at 26 years of age reita did have
hardships and Randy tried to argue that Ruthie May would pitch in however she could with the limited resources she did
have she was there to help her daughter with her grandchild and to me that was more important than
anything else but even outside of trying to get the family compensated Randy just wanted
the cha to actually fix the remaining medicine cabinets I just kept looking at the facts of this case it's this just
isn't right I mean if if I don't do something about this uh and at least try to get them back on track to get their
act together this is just going to keep on happening and other people are going to be murdered according to Steve bu's
conversations with off officers the mode of Entry was well known in the McCoy matter the vulnerability came by way of
the police learning that and me learning that there was a pattern of this type of
activity happening and you know it was only a matter of time until Ruthie May became a victim by the way a
spokesperson for the cha had told Steve begira that they had no record of Ruthie
May complaining about her medicine cabinet still Randy was going to make his case and the question for him was
would the cha pay for what he and Ruthie May's family saw as their fatal neglect the family's lawsuit against the
cha was happening at the same time prosecutors were building their case against ruie May's alleged Killers for
Randy the criminal investigation was key to proving his case because the police report showed a
pattern I didn't hire the police department to do their investigation I didn't even speak to them I didn't even
know about uh what their findings were until I got their papers but they were quite helpful remember the cha admitted
they knew of some break-ins the detectives on Ruthie May's case said it was common knowledge among residents
here's detective Anthony Manina I had talked to several people at the time and they said well there's a designing flaw
in there and that's what the burglar are to climb in the different apartments that was in conversation with several
either informants or or uh other people that that just wanted to stick their two
senson so to speak the fact that ry's case was built on information that investigators gathered themselves made
it that much stronger in court Randy filed in April 1988 but the case didn't resolve until
1992 however it never never came before a judge or a jury instead the Chicago Housing
Authority decided to settle you have to understand in a criminal case it's beyond a reasonable doubt that's not the
premise in a civil case such as my case in my case the burden of proof that needs to be
establishes what is more probably true than not Randy said he no longer has his files from this case since it's been
more than three decades since they settle we filed a freedom of information request with the cha for the settlement
amount but that hasn't turned anything up yet the cha explained that most records from that time have been
destroyed however Randy was confident that they did not get the 1.5 million he demanded when he first filed no no no no
absolutely not that I can tell you with certainty but I can't tell you how much we did get he also said the cha never
admitted liability I spoke with Venita McCoy's daughter key but she didn't share how
much money the family got in the settlement either back in the 80s Steve Aira wondered if the lawsuit contributed to
the cha finally fixing the remaining medicine cabinets he'd still been asking about them even after his first article
was published I was still checking but they all said that there hadn't been any attempt to fix the medicine cabinets I
think they probably made attempts after verita Ruthie May's daughter filed her lawsuit but it sure took time for them
to do something about it the Cha's public affairs director told Steve that the cha desperately wanted to provide
better security but it was hampered by years of deferred maintenance costs she said they were trying to solve it step
by step while Steve wrote about the lawsuit for a story his Focus was on the impending
Trials of John hondras and Edward Turner detectives had believed that the social
security check Ruthie May received contributed to the robbery however that money wasn't mentioned in the statement
given by the prosecution's key witness Tim Brown and Steve who followed the case for years didn't think the criminal
case was as much of a slam dunk as the lawsuit there was not proof Beyond a reasonable doubt in my
[Music] mind in the early 90s Ruthie May's family continued to mourn their loss as
they waited for the suspect's trials meanwhile in England a director was trying to get his new horror movie
off the ground it was one of those weird pieces of kind of kismi Bernard Rose decided to set his
next film Candyman in the Chicago projects but how did the details of a real murder barely covered in the Press
make their way into his script I'll tell you this much it's not because he called
and reached out to the family so what actually happened next time on Candyman the true
story behind the bathroom mirror [Music] murder from 48 hours this is Candyman the true story behind the bathroom
mirror murder I'm your host and co-executive producer domat Pongo Judy igard is the executive
producer of 48 Hours Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount audio and
Mora walls is the senior story editor development by 48 Hours field producer Morgan KY recording assistance from
Maron polycarp and Alan pay special thanks to Paramount podcast vice president Megan
Marcus Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder is produced by Sony Music Entertainment it was
reported written and produced by Alex Schuman our executive producers are Katherine St Louis and Jonathan hirs our
associate producer is summer tamod theme and original music composed by Cedric Wilson he sound designed and mixed the
episodes we also use music from APM fendle Fon is our fact Checker and our production manager is Tama balance
Kass join us next Thursday for a new episode of Candyman the true story behind the bathroom mirror murder if you
like this episode be sure to follow us and leave a review on your preferred podcast app thanks for listening

Detective Anthony Mannina and his team find little physical evidence at the scene. When they question witnesses, most point the finger at two young suspects. While cops pursued one kind of justice, Ruthie Mae McCoy's daughter sued the Chicago Housing Authority for not doing more to protect her mother.

Get early, ad-free access to episodes of Candyman: The True Story Behind the Bathroom Mirror Murder by subscribing to 48 Hours+ on Apple Podcasts or Wondery+ on the Wondery app. The series is widely available everywhere else you get your podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/candyman-the-true-story-behind-the-bathroom-mirror-murder/id1769281333

Crime. Social justice. Impact. "48 Hours" investigates the most intriguing crime and justice cases that touch on all areas of the human experience including greed and passion. "48 Hours," which premiered in 1988, has developed a rich history of original reporting and impact journalism that has helped exonerate wrongly convicted people, caused cold cases to be reopened and solved, and along the way changed lives.

For video licensing inquiries, contact: licensing@veritone.com

Brief Summary

Ruthie May McCoy's murder investigation reveals police challenges and a lawsuit against the Chicago Housing Authority for negligence.

Key points

The Murder of Ruthie May. Ruthie May McCoy's murder reveals deep issues within the community and police relations.
The Investigation Begins. Detectives face challenges in solving Ruthie May's murder amidst community distrust.
A Life Transformed. Ruthie May's journey towards stability is cut short by tragedy.
Randy's Fight for Justice. Randy's lawsuit against the Chicago Housing Authority was about accountability, not just money.
The Vulnerability of Ruthie May. Randy highlights the known vulnerabilities that led to Ruthie May's tragic death.
Settlement and Accountability. Despite the settlement, the CHA never admitted liability for their negligence.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

How the hell something like this happened?

Vita McCoy struggles to understand her mother's murder.

18:27WatchOct 17, 2024

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

More from 48 Hours

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.