The Peggy Hettrick Case That Stunned Our Live Audiences | Forensic Files

How could this have happened to us? But you know, over the years I see so many people losing loved ones. But um and I
and the one question that keeps coming back to me is um if we had done something different, if we'd stayed in
Hawaii, if we'd stayed in Spain, this would have never happened, you know? Why did this this happen? what what what
brought us here to this place, you know, for this to happen? Um there there's so many multiple
universes, you know, we could have stayed here, stayed there, moved to Florida earlier. Um and and she
would have been alive today, but she but it it didn't happen that way. Why? Um I don't know. I don't know. But I
wish we would have I wish we would have done some things differently. Yeah. Uh in my lifetime now, it's been 30ome
years since Peggy's gone and and still nothing has been done about it. And it's like everybody just wants to turn a
blind eye to it and move on. What? What? Move on? I've got stage 4 colon cancer. I'm doing all right right
now, but I my doctor has told me and she was very blunt about it. She said, "You
know that this is going to kill you." And I said, "Yeah, I know that. I understand that." So that's why I agreed
to do this interview because I may not be around before this comes to a conclusion, you know, but I'd like to
see it start. I'd like to see him uh get busy and do their job and and make uh give Peggy resolution,
you know. Maybe me, maybe I'll still be around. I don't know, but I'll try try to be around. I'm not afraid. Uh I I'm
not afraid of anything anymore. I can't be. I have to be strong and and um and I
want if we can do something for Peg and her memory, then let's get it done now. So, what do you say, crime junkies?
Let's This is a lot of people. >> A lot of people. >> Hi, crime junkies. I'm Ashley Flowers.
And I'm Rich. >> This is weird, you guys. This is really freaking weird. We haven't been on tour
in six years, and it was not this. >> It was not this at all. Oh my god. >> Thank you guys for coming to our
hometown show. Uh in Indie is keeping me humbled. I don't know if you were out front standing in
line. I biffed it and like fell in the concrete. Yep, you saw it. She's fine. We checked her out, but uh
found a peg. >> All right, you guys. I We are here to tell a story. I'm ready. Are you guys
ready? >> All right. So, the person you saw speaking, that was Tom Hrik, and his
sister Peggy Hetric was murdered in Fort Collins, Colorado back on February 11th
of 1987. Now, there is still plenty that can be done to solve her case, but the people
in charge who have the power to do that something are doing nothing. >> But you know what changes that?
>> A little bit of pressure. >> A lot of noise. And so, we're here today to tell you why you should make noise
and why you should be straight up mad. Not just on behalf of Peggy and Tom, but so many people in our story. And it's a
story that starts on February 11th, 1987. Now, it's February in Colorado, but there's no snow on the ground, but it's
cold at 7:00 in the morning when this guy named Woody is biking his way to work. He's like head down. I imagine
he's just like in the zone. >> And all of a sudden, he kind of gets like snapped out of his days when he
sees something in this vacant field. And then all of a sudden, he sees in front of him this like splash of blood. And in
that moment, he realizes it's not just a splash of red. It it truly is blood. And
so in that moment, he's like, "Forget work." Like, he has to get police there to the scene.
>> And when police come, what they find is a 100 foot blood trail to the middle of
the field where they see the body of a woman laying face up. She's got her hands over her head, her legs are out,
her bra and shirt have been pulled up, her pants and underwear have been pulled down.
and they assume that she had been stabbed because of the blood, but they can't actually see any wound. The only
thing they see is like a gash on her cheek, and they see that one of her nipples has been removed.
>> Yeah. So they also noticed that she has again she's got her clothes on her, her
jacket, her purse is clung like hung over her shoulder still and like everything is still inside. All the
normal stuff you would expect to find. Even her checkbook which is how they end up identifying her as 37year-old Peggy
Hetrick. >> But along with her checkbook like she still has all of her jewelry. She
>> So it's not a robbery. >> It's not they're not so not that what they're thinking. And especially because
like there's a like something about the way that she was put out there like with
her arms spread like she feels posed, right? Like this feels like something more than that. So by 9:00 a.m. this
field is just like a frenzy with officers. And one of the sergeants that responds to the scene that day is
Sergeant Ray Martinez. And he says when he shows up he is surprised to see basically all of Fort Collins Police
Department there. Now, unfortunately, not all of the hands that are on deck are gloved.
So, as they're working this scene, they turn Peggy over and they realize that they were right. She had been stabbed
once to the upper back. They also noticed that there's a ton of like dry or dead grass like on her butt. And so
the like little semblance of this theory starts to begin to form about what could
have happened because you see they follow that blood trail back to where it was on the curb and they notice a couple
of really interesting things. So first there's this like really critical set of footprints near the blood spatter.
Footprints that do not match Peggy's shoes that she's wearing. And then they also notice that there is this cigarette
butt in the blood. And Peggy was known to be a smoker. So they start thinking, okay, maybe she was walking having a
cigarette and she was surprise attacked by someone and then she was stabbed right there and then drug out to where
she was found. So you'll see this like dark line that is the blood trail path. And the interesting thing is they they
begin to speculate that her pants were pulled down first before she was drugged because of all that grass on her butt. I
don't know if that's true because I kind of have all the questions about this. You'll see that there was this like what
they're on the top what the drag marks look like and I actually like I was trying to figure out how drag marks
would look like this and I was literally like dragging people these like poor people who work at audio check like
dragging people through the hallway of the office >> because when you get drug your legs like
V outpart so these drag marks have the feet together >> which which makes sense if her pants are
pulled down. The thing that doesn't make sense about this is everyone says that that this is the drag mark and this is
the blood mark, but if you see the pink line, like I I marked one pink and one blue. The blue is the drag mark. The
pink is the blood trail. And I'm like, in what world do they not like not line up?
>> They should be right on top of each other. >> Exactly. Now, I've asked like all the
detectives I can about this, and the best theory that they come up with is like, "Oh, well, maybe there was two
people, and one was dragging her coat, and one was dragging her, but like her coat's not the thing that's bleeding."
>> Also, her coat is on, her purse is still over her shoulder. Her coat was never
off. >> And I don't know if this is all like a red herring, and everyone's trying to
explain it, but it it maybe means nothing. The other thing I think is so interesting is that her boots, in my
mind, don't show any sign that she was drugged. Like I know it wasn't muddy or anything,
>> but there should still be like dirt and dust and grass because there is debris
on her body like that, >> right? But there doesn't seem to be any of that. So the question they have like
in this moment is like how did she get to the middle of this field? >> And potentially more importantly, who
wore Tom McCann dress shoes size eight and a half or nine? because that is what they determine was the shoe print, those
like critical shoe prints by that big splash of blood. >> And the blood is from like active
bleeding, like the stab wound. It's not from any of like the mutilation or anything like that.
>> No. So, what they end up finding is that the autopsy showed that the mutilation
was done postmortem. And interestingly, there was no sexual assault, but when they did the autopsy, they saw
additional mutilation in her genitals. So, someone like took time and it wasn't done by like animal predation or
anything like that. Like, it was precise. It was done with what they determined to be a small sharp
instrument, which is different than what they determined she was stabbed with, cuz they determined she was stabbed with
like a 5 in serrated blade. >> So, that gives us two weapons. We've got two weapons.
But the problem is they don't find any weapons there at the scene in that field. They also don't find her nipple.
But that would be harder to spot. They want to like have a search team look for it. And they're like, "Don't worry, we
know exactly who we're going to call the scouts." >> Like children. And when I heard this, like when I heard
this for the first time, I was like, "You mean to tell me that I was out there selling [ __ ]
Thin Mints?" >> No shade to Thin Mints. We love Thin Mints. >> I was selling Thin Mints and Samoas when
I could have been searching for body parts. LIKE, WHERE WAS THAT BADGE? On my honor, I will serve God in my country,
obey all the crime junkie rules, not contaminate evidence. >> That's That's the dream. Okay. So,
new crime junkie life rule. Always go a layer deeper because if I I dug and I dug and I turned out it wasn't
Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts. It was actually Explorer Scouts, >> also kids, >> which
>> still high school kids. And I'm going to give a quick PSA. I don't know how familiar people are with
Explorer Scouts. Um, they have like programs all across the country where like high schoolers who want to be in
like the police force one day like can go in and train, whatever. Um, I'm not saying don't do it. Ask some questions
though. >> But there will be a Crime Junkie episode coming soon because the Explorer Scouts
is like rife with abuse. So if you're a parent, >> get involved. get involved, stay
involved. And that's my quick PSA. So, kids are out there looking for nipples, >> naturally,
>> which by the way, they don't find. Police are out there looking for a per. And police decide like the best thing we
can do is like, we've got to retrace Peggy's last movement, and we have to build some kind of timeline. We have to
learn about who she was. So, they decide to start at her apartment. Now, at the time, Peggy had a temporary roommate.
And temporary is important because the two were sharing a set of keys. And on this night, when Peggy got off of work
at her job at the fashion bar, she walked home and she was pounding on the door cuz it was locked, trying to wake
up her temporary roommate, Sharon. Now, Sharon, depending on what report you read or Sharon's memory, she either like
was out still drinking and forgot she was supposed to get home to let her in or had been drinking too much and was
inside passed out. But either way, Peggy is banging, banging, banging, like cannot get Sharon to wake up. So, she
decides to make the best of like this meh situation and kind of go bounce around to a couple of bars, hang out.
She has some drinks. She is using the pay phone and constantly calling her apartment. She wakes Sharon's ass up. By
midnight, she goes back home again, banging on the door, but this time she wakes Sharon up. And she goes inside,
but she's not in for the evening. She goes in to change out of her work clothes and into jeans and a blouse.
Jeans and a going out top for my millennials. And she goes to this place called the Prime Minister. And this bar
was a regular haunt for Peggy. So, it's not surprising that she ran into someone
that she knew. It was her on-again, off-again, currently off boyfriend, Matt Zulmer. And Matt says that he was there
that night with another woman. It was actually someone he had like just met that night. Like they he's like her name
was maybe Shawn. And he said he talked to Peggy for a little bit, like everything seemed fine. He even had
offered her a ride home because she knew he knew that she walked and she had originally accepted. But Matt said that
he went to the bathroom and when he was coming out, Peggy was leaving. And so he
figured like me, she doesn't need the ride anymore. Matt stays till last call, stays with maybe Shawn. They end up
going back to his place. And the bartender at the bar confirms this. Peggy left on her on her own. Maybe
Shawn confirms that she went home with Matt. And so this is the last time that we have anyone seeing Peggy alive at
around 1:15 in the morning, leaving the prime minister. Now, you'll notice that the prime minister is like over here.
Her house is over here. The field where she's found in is kind of in between the
two. So, this is like playing into their theory >> that she was walking home. >> Exactly. That maybe she was walking home
and got surprised by someone. So, they really start thinking like they had done an initial canvas of the area to see if
anyone had like seen or heard anything. No one had, but they're like who who would be in this field in the early
morning hours? So, a detective, Linda, she decides that she wants to like kind of just do some more canvasing. She
wants to go to some of the trailers nearby. And she goes to the home of Clyde Masters, one of the first doors
that she knocks on. And Clyde says the same thing. Didn't hear or see anything, >> but he says, "You know, now like, you
know, in the hindsight, like there was something weird that morning. My son, I live in this trailer with my son Tim.
He's 15. He always walked through that field to go to like his school or school bus or whatever in the morning, like 7
o'clock in the morning. He's like on that morning, I remember seeing him like hesitate in the field. He didn't stop
for long. He didn't do anything. He still made it to school on time, but it's just weird. You might want to talk
to him. And the officers are like in their head they're like, "Okay, if he's going to
school at 7 o'clock in the morning, >> that's like the same time that >> Woody Woody found and like
>> so he doesn't make sense. >> Why wouldn't you say something if you saw someone in the middle of the field
like and we know she was there. Why would you just go to school like nothing happened unless you had something to do
with it?" So they go to Tim's school. They pull him out of class and before they can say anything, he knows exactly
why they're there. But he tells police then what he would tell you today. So February 11th, 1987, I woke up at a
normal time. I think it was somewhere around 6:00. Uh I remember I still remember my father
had fixed sausage and eggs for breakfast that day. So I had sausage and eggs for
breakfast. took a shower, got dressed. I typically wore a t-shirt, jeans, and a jean
jacket, and uh about 6:55, I walked out the back door to head through through the field
to go catch my bus. And I remember I still remember to this day when I was getting close. We had a little fence
halfway across the property line, like not at the edge of my property, but about halfway between the trailer and
the edge of the property. And I remember seeing at that time of day, it looked like there was trash out in the field. I
thought somebody had dumped some trash out in the field. That's what it looked like. And I remember thinking, man, this
kind of crap never used to happen before these roads went in. Now people are dumping trash in the fields. And I
walked on and uh went through the fence onto the field north of my house. And I remember
seeing it. It started to look more like a a body out there. And I remember seeing it looked like someone had spray
painted brown paint on the ground, reddish reddish brown paint, like a rust color along the field going out to it.
And I remember walking my normal path and then I veered veered over to go look and see what the hell was in the field.
And I I walked over towards it, stood there, and looked at it. And to 15-year-old me, I think I was in such a
state of shock that I couldn't believe that was a body. I thought it was a mannequin, specifically a recessa Annie
doll that someone had stolen from the school and dropped out in the field as a prank. And I remember walking away
kind of confused about it, thinking, "No, there's no way it's a body. It's somebody dropped a mannequin out there."
and I walked on, caught my spool bus, and I didn't say anything to anybody about it.
>> All right, it's the life rule number 10 tour for a reason. >> Say it with me.
>> It's never a mannequin. >> But, okay, so there are a couple of things to remember here. First of all,
this is happening in 1987. This is the year before we were even born. >> So, there's no crime junkie. There's no
crime junkie life rules, >> right? Secondly, okay, so he thought it was a mannequin,
but specifically he thought it was a recessa Annie doll. Does anyone know what a recessive Annie doll is? Is it
from my Instagram? Because I didn't know what a recessive Annie doll was. And so obviously I went and
bought one on eBay. This is Annie. >> She's been hanging out with us at the office.
>> She's Yeah, she's been tormenting everyone at the office. I'll like hide them in like on like their desks. I'll
put them in their chair. She's great. So, the thing about this, you guys, is that the recessive Annie doll, there is
this picture. I can tell you that it actually did look like Peggy all day till I'm blue in the face. But there is
this picture of Peggy's face when she was found in the field. Again, she is completely white. Her mouth is open.
Like, there's a sideby-side I have that when I would tell like people working on
this show, I would say they looked a lot alike. They're like, "Yeah, okay. It's like it's a doll. It's still a doll."
And then I show them this picture and literally >> uncanny. >> They would like lose their breath
because her hair color is the same. Like literally the cut is the same. Everything is exactly the same. So it is
not that wild if this if that was his comparison. It's not that wild that he thought he maybe saw a recesscent Annie
doll in the field because one of the things he says too is he never got right up on it. He was always like 5 to seven
feet away. And the other thing you have to remember is that like you heard a grown man tell you that story in 1987.
That grown man was a 15-year-old kid. And that 15-year-old kid is telling them that he didn't do anything. He thought
it was a mannequin, but police do not buy it. So they pull him out of class and they bring him in for questioning.
And the whole time he is insistent that he is innocent, but they give him a polygraph and the polygraph says
otherwise, >> which there's another life rule there all like never ever take a polygraph.
>> No. And we have another life rule. You guys know always get a lawyer. But Tim
said that he didn't know that he could or should get a lawyer. If he didn't do anything, why would he need a lawyer is
his thinking. >> And so his dad was letting these officers question this kid alone. And
while he's being questioned, the other thing he didn't know is that they were searching his trailer, specifically
paying attention to Tim's room. And >> okay, can we stop for She's really distracted.
>> She is. You got to go just move her. >> Yeah. Here, just take her. Put her back
where we found her. Bye, Annie. She's traveling with us from city to city. Like I'm honestly really Annie's
not going to die after this show. She's staying with me forever in the office. >> Annie is forever. Annie's Annie's
forever. So they're doing the search of Tim's place and they're finding stuff. They're
finding toy guns. They're paying specific attention to this like knife collection that he had, right? Like
they're still looking for a murder weapon. >> They find a pair of pants that have a
spot of blood on them that they collect. And then they find something that they truly believe is like super telling. The
thing that they think shows that Tim is this violent killer. They find his drawings.
Now, >> interesting response. I know it's not that because >> I saw these and I know I'm closer to
like having a middle schooler than being in middle school, but I feel like it was
5 minutes ago and I like can remember the boys in my class making this [ __ ] >> I will one up her all day. My son is in
high school now, but he was in middle school and like this isn't that weird. Like there's like
>> I don't love it. >> No, it's not great. But it's also like there's like little
military badges. There's also long division in the middle of it. Like that's like I was I literally like
pulled some >> manifesto, >> right? Like I literally pulled some of like doodles from like his old school
books and like literally was like on math homework. There was like a cat god. It was the whole thing. This it just
seems very benign for it to be like the smoking gun in this case. But they do they see this as their smoking gun in
this case and they're finding this stuff as Tim is sitting through a 9hour interrogation with multiple detectives.
>> What you think about all this? What you think about the people that tell me what's going on in here all day since I
haven't been here? >> Well, they're pretty much sure that I did it. >> Why are they sure you did it?
>> Cuz all the evidence points towards me, I guess. You have a lot of u pictures of
of killing women, don't you? Pictures you've drawn. >> I do. >> Not just women, >> huh?
>> Not just women. >> Not just women, but you do have pictures of women being killed, don't you?
>> Yeah, I guess I do some. >> But you know, you have all those knives and stuff. Don't you do anything with
your knives anymore? >> I like to collect knives. >> And what else do you do with them?
>> You don't do much anything. >> You just collect them. I use them in a real hiking stuff.
>> What are you using for >> like a cutting room stuff? >> I want to clear this up in your mind.
>> It's important you tell the truth. >> I have told the truth. >> Can you dig what I'm saying?
>> Yeah. >> She has lost her life. She has no more freedom. She can't do a thing.
Her life has ended. You scared a lot of people. You scared me. I didn't sleep last night. I slept about two hours. You
scared the hell out of me. Thank God we found you. Half the detective. Half my people lost
all their sleep last night. We're trying to find you. Now somehow like I have seen people
break in shorter times with people there. like he in 9 hours alone he never breaks.
>> A 15-year-old kid. >> 15-year-old kid. He never confesses. He says that he is innocent and they don't
have anything. All they have at this point are these drawings which they can't arrest him for. So, they have to
let him go. But when they do, they leave that 9-hour interrogation more convinced
than ever that he is their guy. Especially one detective named Jim Brick. Jim is convinced because of three
things really. Number one being the drawings. The drawings is everything to them. But number two, in his
interrogation, it somehow came up that Tim knew about Peggy's nipple being removed. Which if he thought it was a
mannequin, if he was 5 to seven feet away, >> how could he have known that? >> How could he have known that? The other
thing is that they confirm that one of the sets of prints, there were two sets of prints in the field. One of the sets
of prints was Tim's. Now, it was not the critical set of prints by the blood spatter on the curb.
>> And this field is where Tim walks to school every single day. >> And the closest it came was like 5 to 7
feet away, which he said, "I never got close to the body." But his prince in the field, they are convinced that he
did this. So, looking for something to get this kid on, Jim Rodri calls the FBI and asks them to do a profile. They send
him the drawings and the profiler is like, I'm sorry, I don't see it. Like, I no, you can't say that this kid, there's
nothing else. You can't say this kid murdered someone based on drawings. But instead of taking that and being like,
okay, what else have we got? Who else should we look at? >> Jim decides to phone a friend. He's
going to do some profiler shopping. So, he calls somebody that he knows in Washington and gets like an offthebooks
profile. And the guy he talks to says, "I don't know, man. Like maybe I have like seen that a lot of times killers
will position their victims so they can like see them afterwards." And when they
look at where Peggy was in the field, like there was this direct line of sight from Tim's trailer. So he's So Jim Brick
hears this and he's like, "Okay, this is it. >> That's all I need to know. >> It is my job. nay, my duty to get Tim
Masters off the street. He is a dangerous individual. So, they don't let up. They keep pulling him out of class.
They're telling his teachers that he's a dangerous murderer. Obviously, that's not staying with just a teachers. Like,
everyone in school knows what's going on. Tim walks through the hallway and like people will go to the other side of
the hall just not to be near him. And it's coming at him from all angles, like not just in school and through police,
but every day for the first month, the newspaper that's getting delivered to his house has the front page story
saying that police have one suspect and they're inching in on an arrest. But again, Tim does not break. His story
never changes. And he has answers kind of for everything they put forward. So the prince in the field again, he's
like, "Yeah, those are mine. I told you I was 5 to seven feet away. They're my prince. The nipple thing. He's like,
"No, I didn't see it. I knew her nipple was removed." >> Kids out in the field looking for
>> the girl in my art class told me cuz you had kids in the field looking for a nipple. So, of course, that got around.
They find out that the blood on his pants was not Peggy's. It was actually Tim's own blood. So, that's not even
like anything that proves anything. And when they processed evidence in Peggy's case, they found unknown fingerprints on
her purse and they found unknown hairs on her, none of which belonged to Tim. So with all of that and with him not
breaking, they have no choice but to cast a wider net. So they start looking at other people but quickly, very
quickly, ruling out everyone else. And so the case also goes cold, very quickly.
Now, I haven't talked a ton yet about what it was like for Peggy's family. And it's I mean, it's like I feel like it's
you hear this all the time to say it was devastating, but there was something like extremely awful about the timing of
all of this. Like Colorado was just supposed to be a stopover for Peggy. And it's so interesting like when you start
looking at a case like this 2D image of someone that gets left behind because when I first started and I hadn't talked
to Tom, I didn't know who Peggy Hetrick was. All I had were a couple of newspaper articles to like learn about
this woman. And I want to kind of give you a taste on like on like what you might see. So like if you could just
read one of the things that I gave you. >> Yeah. This was written in a newspaper
article about Peggy. The police identified her as Peggy Hedrickk, 37, college dropout bar hopper
and aspiring writer who worked at the fashion bar, a nearby clothing store. Her friends privately worried something
horrible would happen to her given her late night impulses, her jealousies, her appetite for adventure. Sometimes she
would head out into the night just to collect details for the book she was writing or to spy on her boyfriend. And
that's like so different from the Peggy that I've come to know through Tom because this woman was amazing.
she growing up. So she in college and after college had this boyfriend named Frank who she was madly in love with.
They were planning to get married and have kids and they were planning this big bright future which was going to be
incredible because she was brilliant. Peggy spoke four different languages. She traveled all over the world. Her and
her family had lived in different countries. She was writing this book that no matter how hard I try, like I
cannot even like wrap my head around it. It was about another country and money and I don't know, she was just an
amazing woman. But things for her took a bit of a left turn. Like life didn't turn out how she expected because Frank
died suddenly and unexpectedly. And then a couple of years later, her mom passed
away. And it's not like anything went bad for her. It's just like she had to like reimagine what her life was going
to look like. And I think she felt kind of a drift for a little while. And so her and her dad and Tom, they moved
around a bit. They ended up on in Hawaii for a little bit and got island fever. And when they moved back, Tom and his
dad went to Florida and Peggy went to Colorado because I think that that place felt familiar. She'd lived there before.
And none of this could happen at a like a good time or an expected time or or anything, but there's something about
the timing of this that feels extra cruel because just two days before Peggy was murdered. She called her dad and she
said, "You know, I had this dream that I I moved back to I moved to Florida to be
with you guys and I was so happy and like I think that's where I'm supposed to be. Can I leave Colorado? Can I move
to Florida and and be with you?" And her dad's like, "Of course." like anywhere we are, that is where your home is.
So that was the plan, but she couldn't just drop her stuff and go. Like that's not real life. She had a lease. She had
a job. And so in two days, her family instead of like planning her move or planning to help her move, they had to
start planning her funeral. >> You feel like you've fallen into an abyss. One day you have sure footing and things
are stable and she's going to be down there and and her friends down there were going to find her a job to help her
find a job and she was going to live with us and be a bright spot in the house and we be a family to
an abyss like going into the ocean. you can't breathe and you just sink a way far away
uh without stopping and so now your life is changed forever. What do you do? You
know um yeah hopes and desires are they go out the window. Now you have to start a
new life and then after that you know my dad started to get sick. Now I'm dealing
with my dad that is is dying because the doctor pulled me in. He said, "Your dad
maybe has six months." And I just looked at I said, "What?" >> So Tom had to take care of his dad. They
also wanted to be close to the people investigating Peggy's case. So they moved back to Colorado, but the only
updates they were getting was like the party line, like this is active and ongoing. But that became harder and
harder to believe as the years went by. Especially when one day out of the blue,
Tom gets this call from someone at the police department and they're like, "Hey, we have a bunch of your sister's
stuff if you want to come like get it." >> Which the only stuff of Peggy's that police would have is evidence,
>> fully evidence. And they were like, "Do you want it?" And he's like, "Well, yeah, anything of hers we'll come get."
So they go to the department. and they go to this like rickety garage across the street and the the woman like pulls
up the door and pulls out two bags like a plastic two plastic bags that have two
paper bags inside and just like hands it to him and he says they go home and they're unwrapping this and they like
pull out one thing and they realize I mean it has blood spatter still on it and they're like I don't think we should
have this >> but nobody else seems to want it so they like package it back up and put it away
just in case anyone ever comes looking for it, but like who? Cuz nobody comes around asking for it. And the only
updates that they're getting are really from the media. So, it doesn't seem like
a lot is happening. And behind the scenes, the only thing that's really happening is more of the same. Jim Brick
is still convinced that Tim Masters is the one who did this. And in all that time, Tim has just been busy growing up.
And when he turned 18, he moved to the into the Navy like his father. And he was excited for this transition because
like this was going to be his fresh start. He had spent all of high school with people thinking he was a murderer.
This is where he was going to go and be unknown. And being unknown sounded amazing to him. He was going to put his
head down and work. And that's exactly what he did day in and day out, month after month, year after year, all the
way up until one day in 1992. I'm told to report to the master at arms first thing in the morning the next day.
Like, well, this is weird. I report to the master at arms master at arms office the next day and uh the the
E4 that that's assigned to to escort me somewhere is like, should I put him in handcuffs? They're like, no, no, that's
not necessary. And I'm going, what the hell? Handcuffs? Uh he takes me over to the Navy
intelligence office in Philadelphia and there I'm met by three detectives from Fort Collins police
uh Hal Dean, Jim Brick and Linda Wheeler and I I proceeded to endure about a day
and a half of interrogations. I didn't recognize them, right? I didn't know Lind Linda Wheeler.
I didn't recognize him until so so Jim Broadick had this habit of wearing like reddish color deodorant and he had pit
stains and when I saw the pit stains I recognized him and so I remember my thought was what the hell I can't
believe five years later I'm still being harassed over this I didn't have anything to do with this
and then but I was still under the mindset of uh especially I'm just an E4 in the Navy. I I really
respect I really treated authority with respect and Lind Linda Holloway, well, she's Linda Willer at the time, Jim
Barrick, they were still authority. I still treated with them with respect and I kept telling myself, they're just
doing their job. After the interview with with uh Linda Wheeler, I had put it all behind me. I thought it was over and
I thought the four cones police knew I didn't do it, so I didn't even think about it.
I want you to know that clip could have been shorter, but I needed you to hear the deodorant thing.
So, when the detectives left that interview, there was three of them and they're they were kind of split. So,
like I don't know what Hal thought, but I know Linda Wheeler left that interview
being like, I think we got it wrong. Like, I do not think that he is our guy. But Jim Brick left more convinced than
ever. He was on the right track and he had to prove it. So he ends up, so that was in 1992. Fast forward to 1996,
Jim ends up reopening the investigation. And within a couple of years, he finally
is like, "By golly, I have it. I have what will take him down." And so one day in August of 1998, Tim is out of the
Navy at this point. He's sitting at home in his house in California, and he gets
this knock on the door, and he goes to answer. Before he even gets to the door, he sees that it's open and there is a
police officer standing right there in front of him. >> And he said, "Are you Tim Masters?" I
said, "Yeah." He said, "You're under arrest." I said, "What? What for?" And he wouldn't tell me. And uh he
handcuffed me and as as he's taking me out the door, Jim Brick meets me there and he goes, "You're under arrest for
the murder of Peggy Hedrickk." And I went, "We what the hell? You got to be kidding me." It was a complete
shock. >> It was a complete shock to everyone because everyone's kind of like looking
around at each other like, "Wait, what did we miss? What happened? What did they find?" Even Tim is asking himself
that. And when he talks to his lawyer in county lockup, the lawyer tells him nothing. They have nothing new. They are
basing all of this on your drawings. And so they're going to go to court with those drawings and a star witness to
talk about those drawings. >> Lieutenant Brick provided me with um approximately 2,200 pages of drawings
and narratives produced by this young man uh before and immediately after the sexual homicide. This is a voluminous
amount of material. In my uh 18 years of doing this kind of work, I have never seen uh such voluminous productions by a
suspect in a sexual homicide. And that tells us that he was preoccupied with sexual violence, with violence, with
sexually sadistic images, with images of domination and degradation of women. And
he was also fascinated by knives. After spending 6 months on the case, I felt I understood the motivations for this
homicide and that I had become convinced uh that Timothy Masters was the individual that had committed uh this
homicide. >> Okay. So, Dr. Reed Malloy after having never spoken with Tim decides that he
killed Peggy and it was a case of mattress, which >> that's if Okay. That's like killing your
mom. Yes. So, yes, he basically was saying like Peggy was a substitute for Tim's mom.
>> Did Tim even hate his mom? >> No, he loved his mom. And we haven't talked about Tim's mom because she
wasn't in the picture because for years, actually, almost to the day before Peggy
died, his mom passed away. And it was like super tragic. She got sick. They thought she had the flu. And so, one day
she leaves their trailer. His dad was going to just take her to the hospital. He was expecting to see her the next day
and she just never came home again. And it was a huge a hugely informative like like a moment for Tim. He loved his mom.
I mean, he missed her so much. And so the theory kind of became that like around the anniversary of his mom's
death, he's like mad at his mom for dying, for not being there. He's out in the field in the middle of the night and
he sees Peggy and he sees Peggy's red hair and it reminds him of his mom's red hair and in that moment he had to kill
her because he was trying to kill his mom. >> I have seen these two pictures next to
each other a lot. Um, his mom does not have red hair. >> British doesn't even have red hair
>> at all. >> At all. But nobody cares. This is what they go to trial with. this and the
drawings and the defense, they only have one witness come to the stand and it's someone to refute all this stuff about
the drawings >> cuz there's nothing else to refute, right? >> It's not like they did a bad job. It's
like all that's all they had there. There was no case there. He should not be like I mean it feels like everyone
sees like where this is going. >> As I was standing as I was standing there, I was thinking I'm going home.
I'll be going home after today. Uh yeah. And then the the jury came out and I kind of knew something was off. They
would none of the jury would make eye contact with me. I'm like, "Oh god." And then the judge asked, "Have you reached
reached a verdict?" And the the four person on the jury says, "We have." And they hand it to the judge and the judge
reads it. Tim Masters, you have been found guilty. And so the media at the time described me as being completely
emotionless as the verdict is read. It it it wasn't a lack of emotion. It was complete shock.
Like, oh my god, I can't believe this. I just got convicted of murder. And that they cuffed me. They took me to
the county jail. And now I know I'm going to prison. So the judge sentenced me to life in
prison with possibility of parole after 40 years. Oh, it was awful. It's like a world ending event. Like
your life is over. >> Over the past year, we have covered more potential and confirmed like wrongful
convictions than I think ever before. And we've been really fortunate to be a part of some amazing things like like
James Rayos being exonerated. We just gave a million dollars to the Indiana to for them to start their own branch of
the Innocence Project because this stuff is happening all Well, no, I appreciate
it. It's because of you guys. It's because of you guys. So, you guys did it as well and I'm so freaking grateful
because this stuff is happening all the freaking time. And >> like it's obvious here, but it's not
always as obvious. It's not always like this glaring. But we have to be paying attention and
we have to be the ones to fix it. And it's not just me and Brit here on the stage. Like you guys are the jury. You
guys are the voters and we have to do something. And I know it can feel so insurmountable. Like the world is
batshit crazy right now. But you have to like it. You have to take one step at a
time. You have to care about one thing. And what is the one thing you can do? Like I Brit and I were nobody before
this. you guys like it takes one step. Do the thing that you care about and take the one step.
>> And in this situation, like, okay, what's the thing? Like, how do you break it down?
>> The the real questions are, okay, it's Tim Master's wrongful conviction and then the question of who really killed
Peggy Hedrickk, but you got to figure out Tim's wrongful conviction first. That's the first step.
And in this like weird twist you don't see a lot, even Peggy's family wasn't convinced. Like they left the trial
being like okay like we get he's convicted. We don't see why though. Like even they were like what what they
presented in court >> is just drawings. >> It didn't make sense. But Tom would say
he told us he's like you know what we thought we had this thought that like well there must be something else. Like
maybe it didn't make it to trial. It like got excluded. All these weird things happened in court. But they
wouldn't have arrested him just based on that. They wouldn't have take like put him on trial for that. Like they
wouldn't have convicted him. there must be something we don't know. We've said it in episodes before like there must be
sometimes there's not there's nothing and it's just freaking wrong. But everyone was out there telling
themselves like there must just be something we don't know. So Tim gets taken away. He is put in the Buenav
Vista Correctional Complex known as Buenny if you know you know. >> And so he is there every day waking up
in a cage for something that he didn't do. He is working out. He's taking classes. He's working a job. All while
his defense team is filing appeal after appeal after appeal. But Tim is getting less and less optimistic. Like you have
to stop believing the system when you're in his position and then when the court
of appeals denies you and then when the Supreme Court of Colorado denies you. >> And like these appeals, we talk about
them all the time when when cases go this way and there are appeals being filed and appeals being filed. This is
not just something that happens. This is expensive. It costs so much money to fight for your life like this,
>> right? Which is why he ends up he ends up like not having lawyers at some point
and having to do a lot of the appeals himself, which makes him even less >> how to have hope at that point. If the
lawyers are getting denied, you're now your own lawyer, >> right? Because he's learning how to be a
lawyer like in prison while he's also trying to learn how to use Microsoft Word to write the appeals. like he
there's no way he thinks this is going to turn out good for himself. And so as his like view of the world is changing
and his life has completely changed, it's not just him. Like other people's outlooks and lives were changing as
well, including Linda Wheeler. So, she was one of the detectives on the case and she saw how he just got railroaded
and she couldn't believe that the system not only allowed this to happen in the first place, but then as she watched all
of his appeals get denied and the system that is supposed to like be these checks
and balances to fix mistakes, >> letting it keep happening, >> she got so discouraged that she quit the
force because she is like, "What am I going to do?" Like I'm just one person. I can't help. I can't do anything. What?
Like what is one person gonna do when the entire system is so broken? So she left. But it is just one person who
changes everything in this case. And it's not someone with a badge, an FBI agent, a scientist, a lawyer. It is a
CPA named Taylor Maris in a cut off. I love this picture. >> I love Taylor Maris. Taylor Maris was a
crime junkie before there was crime junkies. Taylor Maris is at home one day watching a true crime show and it is
about Tim's case and he's watching it. And by the way, they're not like questioning if Tim is innocent. This is
basically like Jim Brick's power hour, his victory lapping like high five to me.
>> Look what we did. And so he's watching this and he's like he's he's like I keep
waiting for the thing like the thing that proves he did it >> because it's got to be more than these
drawings. >> And and even he's like I made those drawings when I was young and like I
didn't kill anyone. So he waits and he waits and he waits and then the show ends
and he's like oh no. Someone should do something about that. I should do something about that. And so
he takes the first step. It's a small step. He writes to Tim in prison and he's like, "What can I do?" Like, "I see
it. How can I help you?" And Tim says, "I don't know, but if anyone can help, you need to get in touch with Linda
Wheeler. She'll know what to do." >> He said, "You know, you don't know me, but do you remember Tim Masters?" I
said, "Sure." He goes, "Well, do you think he's possibly innocent?" And I said, "Yeah, I really do, but what can I
do? You know, I'm done. I'm not even a cop anymore." And he said, "I uh well," he said, "I I talked with him. I or I
just communicated with him by uh a letter." And he said, "I bought all the transcripts of the trial, $900 worth."
But he said, "They don't mean anything to me cuz I don't read legal ease." He said, "Can I send them to you?" And for
the first time, I sat there and read what happened at the trial. And I was infuriated because I knew this case and
I knew the jury had not heard the truth. And at that point I went, "Okay." So I contacted um uh Maria Lou, who was Tim's
attorney, and uh I said, "You want my help?" They said, "Yeah." I said, "Okay." But I know what I had to do is I
had to put back on a badge cuz I knew I wouldn't have any credibility as a civilian,
>> as you can imagine. Wait, wait, wait, wait, I just take a moment to acknowledge that buying $900
worth of court transcripts, not knowing how to even read what's in there, >> some real Ashley Flower [ __ ] folks.
>> I I was going to say like I would have, but I'm sure I've done I've done it. >> I've done it, man. Like someone's got
to. So, as you can imagine, Fort Collins PD isn't like welcoming Linda back with
open arms. She's basically trying to upend a case that they think is over and done with and is a win for them. Do I
list it? I feel like I do. >> A little bit on like this one. Yeah, >> good. >> Perfect.
>> Thanks. You guys got to let me know. >> It's been like all night, guys. >> So, Linda decides she's going to work
for the DA's office. And the DA basically she has this understanding that she part-time is going to work on
Tim's case. And when she thinks about what's going to make a difference in Tim's case, she's thinking about, you
know, this is decades on now, DNA. Like this is going to be the thing. And she remembers meeting a woman at this like
conference a while back named Selma. And Selma and her husband Richard have this
independent lab out in Holland where they do all this testing. >> And independent is super key here.
>> Oh, they trust nobody. >> We don't trust anybody here. >> No. So she's like, "Okay." And I think they
end up getting back like that evidence that Tom had, like, "Thank God somebody saved it." And they're like, "Okay, we
need to do some testing." The problem is, and like part of what what I think is broken in our system is they can't go
and just test stuff >> because the prosecution owns the evidence against you. >> So you have to like ask permission from
the people that put you away if you can test the evidence. Now, the saving grace
here is that by this point, Fort Collins PD has recused themselves. Lammer County, who is like the district
attorney's office, has recused themselves. So, it's going to a DA that is neutral, hopefully, who they're
hoping doesn't have a dog in the fight other than wanting the truth to come out. So, Selma and Richard come to the
US and they do this like 4hour presentation for the new the DA here, Don Quick. And after 4 hours, Don's
like, "Yes, love you. Love your lab. Love what you're doing. Go Justice. Let's send this [ __ ] off and see what's
up." Well, isn't it convenient that right when they get permission to do this, a bunch of
evidence gets destroyed? Mhm. So, luckily they have a couple of things left that they do send off, but this
makes them more convinced than ever that Lamur County, that Fort Collins PD is hiding something.
>> And the more they dig, the more stuff they find. And they end up filing this appeal for a new trial based on the fact
that they believe Tim's rights were violated. And it's really based on like four points. So, one is they say that
crucial evidence was withheld from his defense team early on. His defense team never knew about the crucial set of
prints. They didn't know there was another set of prints in that field, the dress shoes, the Tom Macccan dress
shoes. >> They didn't know about that. >> They also didn't know about the FBI profile, the original one that was done
that said, "No, this is not it." Like, that got hidden and destroyed. So, they didn't have that to work with when they
went to to trial. The second thing, we've got that whole like DNA destruction thing that just happened.
The third, even before that, there was some skin cell DNA that had been mishandled by the lab. So, we can't even
use that. And then fourth, they say that the team, the investigative team did not look into viable suspects. Now,
they did not pick Tim Masters out of like a void of suspects because there was nothing else. there were actually
much more viable suspects which we're going to get into, but they never looked into them properly and they never told
the defense team about them. So, those are the main four points, but then they also found all this other really shady
stuff. Like, do you remember how the first like month after this happened, every day the newspaper showed up at Tim
Master's house and the front page was about them honing in on their one guy. So every day for a month, the Fort
Collins PD made a fake front page of a newspaper and delivered it to his front door, hoping that it would make him
crack. >> Literal fake news. >> And they were taking his mom's obituary and they were putting it in envelopes
and like leaving it around for him to find just to like psychologically torture this kid. And so even that
wasn't doing anything. So, come the one-year anniversary of Peggy's murder, they plan this like weird
operation, and like I I don't even want to call it an operation. It's like reminds me of something me like or my
husband and his friends would do like on video games at 11:00 at night where basically like the big scheme.
>> Yeah. The little paper trail of this that's left is basically like Colorado authorities contacted the FBI and
they're like, "Listen, we can't like we need to prove that this guy is dangerous. He hasn't done anything to
help us. So, we should like push him to do something. >> We should make him do something violent
cuz he is violent. >> So, we're going to keep like putting him in in scenarios to like push him to do
something violent. But, if he goes too far, we all have to pretend it wasn't us.
>> Because if he's as violent as we think he is, I mean, he's capable of killing
somebody. And if he kills someone again, we didn't make him do it. >> And the FBI's like, "Got it."
And they're also like, "But also, if he does nothing and we look like idiots, we
can't say anything." And the FB is like, "Got it." And of course, he did nothing. Like, and
so that's why nobody found out about this, but this is the stuff that they were finding out they were doing in the
background. So, they file all of this, they send off the DNA, and even now Tim is not optimistic.
Why would he be? There's very little that has gone right. and even when it's like glaring and in your face, he
doesn't think it's going to go his way. >> So, I'm in the unit. All of a sudden,
the whole facility locks down for some reason. And they lock down a lot. You just assume a fight broke out somewhere.
Somebody got hurt, whatever. So, I'm sitting in my cell and my case manager comes up while everybody's locked down
and he says, "Tim, your lawyer just called. She wants you to call her back." I'm like, "Okay, I'm locked down. What
am I going to do?" He says, "I'll try and get you out here in a minute." He So, he goes down. Then he comes back a
little bit later. They take me out or no, he goes back down to talk about it. And then the news comes on and there's
an announcement from the special prosecutors in my case. And they announce that uh they're going to
dismiss the case against me and I'll be released on a PR bond. And I'm like, and
everybody in the unit was cheering. Yeah, you're going home, masters. You're out of here. I'm like, wait a minute,
wait a minute. I'm going to talk to the lawyer later today. We'll find out for sure. Cuz at this point, I'm so
pessimistic. I don't even believe what I just saw on the news. And then I go to I go down to the case
manager's office. He calls my lawyer, Maria Lou, and she says, "You're out of there. They're letting you go."
So, ironically, I made it. I wasn't in prison for quite 10 years, but I was in there almost 10 years. And uh oh man, it
was it was weird. They they had uh my lawyers bought me a suit out of their own pocket and uh I got to wear a suit.
They talked the sheriff into letting letting them release me from the courthouse rather than coming back to
the county jail to be processed. So I went in there and they released me out of the courthouse. That never
happens in Colorado. if you get released, you got to go back to the county jail and wait around while they
process you. And they they let them release me from the courthouse. My entire family was there. My family
was so big that they they couldn't fit in the courtroom and the courtroom was packed anyway with people. So, they had
my family go back in the judges chambers. And when the hearing started to release me, all my family started
walking out and there was my sister. I almost broke out in tears when I saw my sister.
It was a good day. Yay. Justice. That day was January 22nd, 2008. So, they released him. They
dropped the charges, but crime junkies will know that doesn't mean he is considered an innocent man. They have
the option to refile if they want to, but DNA tests come back and they can't tie anything forensically. They do have
like partial profiles, they can't tie any of it to Tim. So eventually he ends up being exonerated, fully exonerated in
2011. And he ended up and he ended up suing some of the people who put him there. So
hell yeah. >> Much bigger cheer for that. Well, hang on. >> So, >> it's like goodish news.
>> So, he sues Jim Brick, uh Jolene Blair, and Terry Gilmore. Those are the two DAs
who, by the way, by the time he is out and filing these suits, are now judges. >> Yes,
>> he ends up suing them. He does end up, and there were other people like he sued
the city and there were a whole list of people. He ends up winning a $10 million
judgment, which was great for Tim. Jim Brick, I know you guys were worried about him. I could tell. He got put on
paid leave and then resigned. And though multiple grand juries indicted him, nothing ever stuck.
>> Yeah. Charges were dismissed. Jolene and Terry, this was at least happening kind of around election year.
They didn't win re-election for judges or what? Judge ship, whatever it's called. Um, but that's it.
>> No slap on the wrist. >> No slap on the wrist. No punishment whatsoever. Nobody lost their license.
Nobody faced any charges for what was done to Tim. And even more interesting to me, nobody was looking to say, "Okay,
this happened to Tim Masters." When it was so obvious it was based on drawings >> out there. No one was like, "I wonder if
this happened to someone else." >> To someone else. Nobody was asking those questions. Now, we reached out to Jim
and Jolene and Terry. Obviously, no one wanted to talk to us. And this is just a
fun fact that means nothing, but I had to share it. When we I like, you know, you got to like find contact info for
these people. So, we had look them up on Facebook. Guess who's dating and went to
Italy? Again, I like I don't know why >> nothing to do with anything, but it means nothing.
>> We know it. We want to share it with you. >> So, after Tim settles his lawsuit,
he asks the court that all the records be sealed because just like he did when he went to the Navy, he just wants to
start over and he's like, I don't want this coming up again. I like I just want I just want to live my life and I don't
want this to be the thing that defines me. which made it real hard for us to get the records.
>> Bad news for us. >> But we did find a source who got us a good number of the records. And in those
records, there were some really viable suspects that were not him. Starting with the on-again, off-again boyfriend,
Matt Zner, who in this picture is 37, but at the time of Peggy's murder, he was 29. Now, you know, everyone's got
their favorite person of interest. And for Linda Wheeler, Matt is hers. Now, Ray Martinez says everyone was kind
of quick to write Matt off in the early days. And I think it was probably because he seemed really devastated,
genuinely upset. His reaction seemed like what they should have been. And like they kind of were like, "Oh, he had
an alibi. Remember maybe Shawn from the bar? She was with him all night." >> And she left the bar with him.
>> Well, kind of. >> She did leave the bar with him. And she her story has always been that she was
at his house till like 3:00, give or take. Well, when you look at the time of death for Peggy, like on face value,
they say it was between 1:00 a.m. and 3:00 a.m., which that would give him an alibi. Now, if you look at the records,
you'll see there's this like grid where they basically use I don't know like the
averages to get to one to three, but really the full window is one to five, which leaves two hours that Matt does
not have an alibi, which I think is really interesting >> because there's something I haven't told
you yet. I have a little secret up my sleeve. In Peggy's purse, the one found over her
shoulder when she's down in that field, there was a note written to Matt. Go ahead,
Matt. I need your help. Sharon has got my keys and isn't home. No answer. If I have to knock on your door at 2, please
don't be a grump. I don't want to spend the night sleeping in the hall. Peg. But
this is in her purse. So the question is like why does she still have this note to Matt?
>> And did Matt see it? >> Right. >> Can't tell you because it seems like police never even asked him.
>> Now there seems to be like the best theory that people can come up with. So this is where Matt lived, he lived even
closer to the prime minister than Peggy did. And so you know the question is like, okay, did she when she's locked
out, it seems like that's when she wrote the note. Did she go leave it on his door? And then when she was able to get
into her place, did she go get the note and she's like, I don't need a place to stay anymore. Or did she like not even
make it to his place, but realize she could get back into hers and then it's just kind of like a moo point and it's
like living in her purse. No big deal. >> But they never ask Matt about this note.
>> No, they never ask him if he or at least based on the records I have, they never
ask him if he saw this, which to me would be kind of critical because it's like seeing her or this note is like
never part of his story that we have. So, we've got Matt's story, right? Like he sees her, they talked for a little
bit, he's with maybe Shawn, they end up leaving together. Peggy leaves alone at 1:15. He does tell police. There is this
like one thing that Peggy mentioned that might be significant. He said, "Oh, well, Peggy mentioned, by the way, that
she had a new boyfriend, which I could be like I could see in a couple ways. Like, yes, she's actually seeing someone
or she sees her on again off-again guy with another girl and is like, "Oh, you're with someone. I'm also newly in
love. He's way hotter than you. Super tall, super sweet. Don't even worry about me. And like you have fun with
like maybe Sean, >> right? And I think it could be maybe Sean. I think it could be like TBD. I
think there might have been someone she was saying, but it's important to know that Matt was the guy that she always
went back to. Like this this saga between them had been going on for a very long time. And I know that even
earlier in that very week that she was killed, like the two had dinner together. So like this is very much off,
but like only in the way that they were off. And also police never seemed to even ask him about this dinner or what
happened or were they talking about getting back together or anything? >> Did they check his alibi with maybe
Shawn? >> So they did. They checked that he was with maybe Shawn. We also checked and we also found out
maybe Shawn is actually Dawn, >> which is like kind of close. >> It was It's close, Matt.
>> So close. >> So, we found Dawn all these years later, and her story is really interesting, and
you know, and we were able to even find her statement from back in the day, too.
And and it it's all corroborated by what she was saying back in the day. And but
it adds a little bit more color. So, she said that she ran into Matt at another bar earlier in the night and he had like
sold her a car. He's a car salesman. And so, he had sold her a car. This I mean,
this guy, that's what I'm saying. Like, he I think he he was a smooth talker with police. So, he sold her a car, sees
her, like recognizes her like, "Hey, if when you get in with your friend, you should come over to the prime minister."
And she goes there, he's already there. He is at the bar talking to who she now realizes was Peggy, but she didn't know
at the time. And she says she waits for like five minutes just to see if he's going to like wrap it up or like what's
going on. And finally she walks over and as she approaches Peggy like turns and talks to some guy next to her. So she
kind of thought Peggy was with that guy. Matt doesn't even introduce her. He's just like go get a table. So she goes
and gets a table for four thinking this woman and this guy are going to join them. They never do. But she says like
the whole time Matt's just kind of like eyeballing. He she doesn't know the history there but he seems to like kind
of being like paying attention to Peggy, >> but like nothing weird, whatever. And
she says that he ends up like like the whole story goes the same. They end up staying till last call. Peggy leaves on
her own. She does go back to his place. She stays till like 3 give or take. And >> which is great if Peggy is killed
>> after like a three window. >> It doesn't even like wrap for any weird reason. She's like, you know, he's like
hinting he has to work in the morning. Like I can take the hint. He also says that he like hates kids. Not like kind
of, but like hates kids. And she's like, well, I have one of those. So, like I don't think this is going anywhere. So,
she ends up leaving. But when we talked to her today, she said there was something about his
apartment that she always found so weird that like still stands out to her to this day. And she's like his apartment
was pristine. Like not just clean, but like there there wasn't like a fork to be found in
the sink. There weren't clothes on the floor. There weren't like things in the bathroom. It was like model apartments.
>> Yeah. She's like >> unlived in clean. >> Yeah. It doesn't seem like someone lived
there. And she's like, I always thought that was weird. But then a few years later, someone had come back around
asking some questions and they were asking specific questions about Matt's apartment. And they started showing her
pictures of his apartment. And she said she has this moment where it's like full
body chills because she's like that's not the apartment I that I don't she's like yes it's the
same layout but she's like I don't remember any of that stuff >> like someone lives in this place and
that's not how Matt's apartment. And the specific questions they were asking her
about were they were like, "Did you see the broken table?" And did you see those
like spots on the floor and under the sink? >> Which when I look at these pictures, I'm
like, "What broken table?" But there's the leg is broken on the coffee table, >> right? The first time I heard it, I was
imagining this like shattered table. >> It this is like could it's like a It's like a boy fixed it and who a
29-year-old boy who like lives in an apartment and he was like, I'll just this will do. And so, and this they they
never like, as far as I can tell, get this tested. I don't know what this is that they're talking about. But she
obviously says, "No, I didn't remember this." But she's like, "I don't remember the apartment looking like this at all."
>> Of course. But like is that like the implication is like it happened after she left then?
>> Yes. So that I think that's what they were trying to like get to was did the table break and these spots come after
you were there? Was there some kind of altercation that happened in the apartment? And there's this other like
really interesting thing that I haven't gotten to yet because like you have to wonder with with you know
maybe Sean we know is Dawn. Is it is it that this isn't the same apartment? Is it that it was is it memory?
>> Yeah. Like I mean it was super late in the night. They've been drinking. >> Well and we know that like human memory
is super super flawed. Like there's a ton of statistics on it and I won't bore you with all of them, but one
specifically from the Innocence Project is like something like 70% of wrongful convictions are because of witness
misidentification, misremembering. And like like you said, it's late at night. We know they've been drinking. Um
there's there's a million things that could go like in a perfect circumstance, >> human memory is flawed. And this is not
a perfect circumstance. I don't want to discount anything. It takes me more to get on the husband boyfriend did a
train. Hang on. >> Okay. So the when they went and talked to Matt like early on like first like
day or two they searched his car and in his car they said they found sping wet clothes and shoes. Not like damp. They
literally say in the reports that it was like someone swam in these things. And they also find sping wet clothes in his
apartment. So they collect all of it. But then Matt a couple of days later is like hey would love my stuff back and
they say sure no problem sorry we didn't like dry and fold for you and they just
give it back to him without ever testing it because they have by that point Tim masters square in their sights
>> and he's drawing >> god forbid and the other thing that I think is so interesting that was at Matt's apartment
is outside they found a bunch of footprints that match the shoes Peggy was wearing along with like 11 cigarette
butts of the brand that she was known to smoke. >> Which when I think of the shoe prints,
I'm like, well, she has this note, right? Like she maybe dropped it off and then came back for it. She started
there. She didn't drop it off. She could have been there. >> But the cigarette butts, like
>> that's a lot of them. >> So they people started to wonder like was she there waiting? And when they
were talking to Peggy's friends, they said, you know, she could be jealous. And like, we could see a world where she
saw Matt with this other woman and she thought like, okay, I'm going to go to his apartment and see if they go home
together or I'm going to go and see if she stays the whole night or leaves or whatever.
But then you have to wonder, so, okay, so if that's what happened, then was there some kind of altercation in his
apartment? And that doesn't fit with anything we have or know at the scene. >> The theory is that the attack happens
next to the field. She gets drugged out of the field. The blood is in like in the field. Next to the field,
>> right? And nothing. And again, we've got this like weird stuff at his apartment,
but like why would he go then take her to the field or like if he was giving her a ride home, why stop at the field?
Like there's so much about this that like doesn't >> the attack can't happen in both places,
but they're also saying maybe it did, >> right? And there is no part of Matt's story ever that has him and Peggy even
seeing each other at his place. >> Well, and my question kind of goes back to it goes to like does Matt have a
history of violence, violence against women, violence against Peggy? They've been in relationships before.
>> No. So, he has like he doesn't have anything violent on his record. He has like some DUIs, but like nobody
described their relationship as volatile. Nobody has come forward and said that he has done anything to anyone
since. So like again I go back to like what would the motive be like if he did something it had to have been like a
heat of the moment thing but then that would happen I think at his apartment not while she's like walking home or
>> right >> it doesn't it does not add up completely. >> I think the biggest question is
does he have the Tom Macccan dress shoes? >> He does not. And he's not a guy who
would like wear Toman dress shoes. And I I looked up and down. I tried so hard, of course Matt didn't want to talk to us
either, to find out even just what size shoe he wore. There was some pictures in
the file of these boots. I think it was because of like how they were placed by his couch that stood out to detectives,
but like I get the sense that like these these were the nice shoes. >> These were his fancy shoes. So these
boots too were also the one that Dawn said he was wearing that night and they don't match any of the prints out in the
field. So maybe for all of those reasons they end up not looking at Matt even though
he failed a polygraph just like Tim and he failed the question do you know who killed Peggy Hetrick
>> kind of the big question you know >> but the poligrapher said he's quote probably telling the truth
so that's Matt Zolar the next person we found is Donnie Long. Now, shortly after Peggy is murdered,
there is another woman who is murdered named Linda Hold. She's 39 years old. She is stabbed nine times. She's bound,
gagged, and tied to a tree. She, like Peggy, is not sexually assaulted, but there also is no mutilation in her case.
And then shortly after that, 30-year-old Mona Hughes is murdered. And we tried up
and down and tried contacting family. We could not find a picture of her. But she
was stabbed 14 times. Again, no sexual assault, no mutilation. And pretty quickly, police had decided
that none of this was connected to Peggy because they thought the MMO was just too different. And eventually, they end
up connecting Linda and Mona's case to Donnie Long. And Donnie Long ends up confessing to murdering Mona and Linda.
And they at least do the bare minimum and they like circle back and they say like, "Hey, what about Peggy?" And he
says, "Nope." And they say, "Okay, thank you." >> Which this is not the first time we've
seen this happen. And it never fails to just be like, "What?" You guys, I'm literally working on a case right now in
Washington that I'm not saying it was Israel Keys, but like >> we're not saying it wasn't Israel
>> a lot of things. And I had a call with the FBI and I was like here are the 20
things I think are like I don't know. Like I just want to know if you've looked at it,
>> but don't worry. They said it can't be him. He told us it was only four victims
and this would have been five. >> That's literally what they said. They're like Keys, not a good dude. We're taking
his word for it. >> Yeah. So, like I don't know. It It just seems strange to me. But they say not
Donnie Long. So, we we don't look at him either. Which brings me to my favorite part.
So, Ray Martinez, his >> I'm going in and out. I'm Are you me? Right when this is getting good. You
guys don't do this part. Don't do this to me. >> Okay. >> Ray Martinez. This is his favorite
person of interest and this is someone I have become deeply obsessed with. Whether he had something to do with
Peggy Hedrickk or not, there is something here and I will not stop until I find it.
So, I'm talking about local opthalmologist Dr. Richard Hammond, who many people refer to as handsome, and I don't see
it. So, >> we also know a lot about him at this point. So, >> Dr. Hammond, he was uh like looked at like when they
did the neighborhood canvas like early on like they talked to him, him and his wife, he didn't see anything. He's not
raising any red flags in 1987. He's an opthalmologist, a family man, except for the one red flag that supposedly was
raised about Tim because he too had a direct view of where Peggy was found from his primary bedroom window. And by
the way, he was like didn't sleep at night, >> but he wasn't doodling. >> So So no red flags.
>> So no one worry about him. Yeah. So they they they came across him during the
initial canvas. Him and his wife are like, "Nope, didn't see anything. Didn't hear anything. Thank you very much.
Goodbye." Well, fast forward to March of 1995 and some really big red flags start
getting raised because there is this woman who Colorado State University had like a job board, which is like digital
now, but back then was like straight up note cards on an actual board. and she picks up this note card for housesitting
and it's for Dr. Richard Hammond and his family. They're going out of town. She and a friend are going to stay at their
place and housesit. She doesn't know the guy. They show her around. They give her
the basement like free reign. Here's where you sleep. There's a bathroom down here, but make yourself at home
throughout the whole house. So, she's in the basement and she notices that she keeps like hearing this weird
sound in the bathroom and she like doesn't know quite what it is. And I think that if she were by
herself or if I were by myself, I'd probably be like, "Weird. I'm gonna use the bathroom upstairs." But she had her
friend with her, >> her crime junkie BFF. and have Ashley had me with her. >> And so they're like, "We're going to get
to the bottom of this." Like, "What else do we have going on?" >> Full Nancy Drew.
>> So they're like looking around, looking around. They realize it's like every time they turn on the light, they hear
this weird noise. And so they get a flashlight and they realize that there are cameras
in the vents, >> plural, >> plural, >> cameras. And they realize that like these cameras are set up from an
adjoining room. And so they go to the room next door and they realize that like the knob is locked. So again, you
got your crime junkie BFF. >> Never picked a lock in my life, but I'm about to learn.
>> I'm about to find out right now. So I'm sure they're getting like again like what am I I'm going to get like all like
the paper clips or like the whatever. I'm going to figure this out. So they go and like God is on their side because
they go to like start figuring out how to pick a lock for the first time and they realize that the door hadn't
completely latched. So all they have to do is like push it open and it pushes open and there is this video equipment.
There are these filing cabinets with quote an uncountable amount of videotapes. So she well not woo you don't know
what's on these. Hang on. She calls a friend because she's like okay like I'm let me try to like explain
this for a minute. This is there's this can't be this. So they she calls this friend she has who used to work at the
police department who knows a lot about it like video stuff. This is like very 1995.
And he comes over and he looks at the room and he's like, "Nope, >> bad news. >> We got to call the real cops."
So the real cops come and they find hundreds of tapes and they find this like index that he has of like ages,
names, dates. Is it a shower shot? Is it a toilet shot? These toilet shots are not just like someone going they they
are close up on genitals which brings us to Peggy Hetrick because she had genital
mutilation >> and she had a a nipple which they said was surgically removed with surgical
precision and then you have this opthalmologist starting to get a little weird and
luckily this is all happening in the same area. And so the person who gets called to this new scene is Ray
Martinez. And when Ry gets this call to show up at this like house where this is
going on, he's like, "Hammond? Why do I know that name, Hammond?" And it hits him that he had talked to him in the
initial canvas for Peggy Hedrickk's case. >> So I'm tying this together. Weird cameras.
uh crime scene near the crime scene back then and he's a doctor and guess what we
find in his closet. We start looking through his closet and we find Tom McCann's shoes. Boy, does that ever ring
a bell. And so we called up Brick, this other detective did, and he refused to come out. He wouldn't
come to the scene. He said, "No, we already know who done it." But that's a moot point. Basically, when Jim Rodri
said that and the officer told me about it, I I was angry about it because me as
a past detective, you don't overlook anything. You know, you you flip over every stone that you can. You might be
wrong where your lead was. Maybe this is something different. Why not look at what's it going to hurt? Right? But he
refused to come out. So I told the officer there, I said, "Let's just seize everything. Let's seize the tapes, seize
the camera, seize those Tom Macccan shoes, you know." So we did. We collect our own evidence and turned everything
in and it never went anywhere. And I think a day or two days later, he's found dead in a hotel in in Denver. They
said, from what I've learned that when they found him, his whole body was shaved. He shaved all the hair off his
head and his body, complete body, and disposed of it. So that to me is weird other than he didn't want any trace
evidence linked to him. Why would you do that if you didn't think you might have
left something behind at a scene? >> Don't naked mole rat. >> What? >> I know. And
if you ask the people who are like pro- Hammonds, >> who is pro- Hammonds, >> there are pro- Hammond people, I'm going
to get there, they will say, and this this really came from his wife. She said that he was very into bodybuilding. And
like I I've heard this before, try as I might, I don't know if he was actually like doing competitions.
Like, so my question is like is he always like N smooth or is this like something that he did today? Because I
think about Peggy's case, we know at one time >> there are unknown hairs found at the
scene. >> Exactly. So, is that why he's doing that? Is he afraid he's tied to something else? I don't know. His wife
says, "No, no, no. It was just the bodybuilding. There's no way he could have done anything violent. That's not
like him." which like I have all the questions about because like how does she even know what he's capable of? Did
he did she know about the tapes and the video cameras and everything? >> She said she didn't know about any of
that. So I feel the same way. I'm like you can't you can't have it both ways. You can't say that you were totally
shocked by this. You had no idea. And >> you definitely can't do that. >> But I actually know him and that for
sure know like it doesn't work that way. So I don't know. She did end up getting
an immunity deal >> from what is my question. >> Probably because like all the tapes and
stuff was like in her house too. I don't know. >> But she got an immunity deal and she
told the police like she didn't know about this but they had this like very vanilla life. She said, you know, she
would make dinner from scratch and he would come home at 7 and they would have dinner with their two teenage kids and
then their kids would do their homework and they like didn't even watch TV because they didn't really like it. Just
like a sweet family life. wasn't showing what Hammond was into. >> No. So, he is arrested.
He is released on a $5,000 bond. And that's when he went to that hotel and he took his own life. He had like a cyanide
cyanide drip to his leg. And it's so interesting the way that he and the people who support him like spun this
thing after his death. And it kind of starts with the note he left behind that Britt, I'm going to have you read.
The media frenzy surrounding my arrest has caused immeasurable harm to many people, especially my family. I have
lost everything, but I cannot survive the loss of my wife and son and daughter. My death should satisfy the
media's thirst for blood so that hopefully everyone else who has been affected by the case can truly begin the
process of healing. I love redacted family names very much. I am truly sorry for having hurt you so deeply, Rich
Hammond. >> So he really makes it about the media like >> what I didn't wasn't so bad.
>> But the the way that the media they're bloodthirsty really bad. >> And the way that the community like
latches on to this is wild. There is basically this like brawl that takes place within the newspaper where people
are writing like these letters to the editor and these op-eds where they are defending this man and saying that like
the media and reporting on what he did is the problem. And it's almost unbelievable. But I want to like share a
little bit with you. I gave you some of this. There was this woman named Pam Hurley Nagel.
>> I literally could not read all of it. >> It's horrific. >> Yeah. >> But you you need to understand like the
tone at the time because >> so this is published like in the news. >> It saddens me that the Colorado and
other media flits chose to feast on Richard Hammond's tragic plight. I don't condone his alleged behavior
which was limited to the privacy of his own home. >> What? Like filming other people without
their consent in his home? >> Minors, by the way. There's like a lot of minors like get [ __ ]
Bam. But the media exploited this man and his family, their vulnerability. Okay, Rich Hammond was a man and doctor
who took time to replenish his society with quality medical care. What he allegedly did was wrong, but in the
scheme of things, the hurt was exaggerated after the media got its predatory clause in it.
So this is like the tone in Colorado at the time and as they are finding even more. Richard Hammond had a secret
storage locker no one knew about with Rubbermaid tub after rubber made tub of more videotapes, pornographic material,
sex toys. He had a secret bank account nobody knew about. a phone that like was registered to like his practicing
partner who's like not my phone. >> Tell them about the belt. >> Oh my god. And then they then they found
this like waist contraption that like hooks onto a belt that has all these tiny sharp instruments that would just
like >> little knives, >> but they never thin knives. >> They never tested that. They never did
anything with that. And all this time, like it's important to know that when the media is talking about him there, no
one is talking about him in connection to Peggy. >> It's just these tapes. >> It's just about these tapes. And a lot
of people, Ray Martinez, they're like, "Okay, is it possible Peggy was on one of these tapes? Is it possible he was
connected to Peggy in some way?" We don't know because something weird happened a couple of months after he
died. There was a motion that got granted very quickly and all of the evidence in the
case of Richard Hammond, all the videotapes, everything they collected, those Toman shoes, it all gets burned
against every protocol, every procedure, against everything that they were supposed to do with this evidence. It
was deemed burnable. And Jim Brick, some people thought it was weird, but Jim Brick shows up to
talk to the Denver Post and he says, quote, "Should we revictimize all these women
by telling them they're victims?" So really, it's an effort to protect them, to preserve these victims rights, which,
okay, hear me out. There is a world in which I can imagine finding out you are on one of these horrific tapes and never
wanting it to exist. >> For sure. >> Get rid of it. I don't want to even know that it's locked in an evidence locker
somewhere. It needs to be destroyed. But I think what we need to focus on here is
the phrasing in that statement from Jim Broadick. >> Yeah. Because by destroying everything,
they took away their like ability to sue his estate, to do anything legal with it.
>> Well, and on top of that, by telling them they're victims. >> Yeah. So many people didn't even know.
They did talk to some people and confirm that they were on the tapes, but the real kicker is they didn't actually look
at most if not all of them before they could even assess what was on them. They destroyed them,
which again is against all policy and procedure. And I know somewhere out there there are
noble people who do noble things for noble reasons. would love to meet more of them.
>> They are probably not within this department that railroaded a 15-year-old for drawing things. I
always go a layer deeper. have a feeling it has to do with the fact that there was going to be a special prosecutor on
Hammond's case if they were going to take this tape thing to trial because Laramar County had to recuse themselves
because members of the DA's office quote had been guests of Hammond's home and may have been videotaped.
>> I think we just found out why all the tapes were destroyed. So, they were so ready to just like write this off, make
this go away. I mean, they were like accepting these like bogus excuses of why he couldn't be connected to Peggy.
Like, someone was like, "Oh, well, he didn't even like use scalpels. He couldn't have like cut off her nipple.
He didn't use scalpels." And his the guy he like owned the practice with was like, "Yeah, we do surgery with
scalpels. What the [ __ ] are you talking about?" They have an affidavit from a woman who's like, "He used a scalpel on
my very eyes." Like, that's not true. But they just wanted this to go away. And just to show you like how far under
the rug this was pushed at the time, which by the way, it is not lost on me that this happens in 1995 and Jim Rodri
reopens his case on Tim in 1996. But it is so far pushed under the rug that Peggy's family, Tom, had never
heard about Richard Hammond. I remember a few years ago they talked about a doctor. I was coming out of the
village in with my friend and he looked at the news box, Rocky Mountain News, and had p Peggy's picture on the front
cover of the newspaper and he said, "Hey Tom, that's your sister." And I so he got the newspaper. We went back into the
village and I read it. I skimmed over it. I went, "What? Who is this doctor?" Yeah, nobody's ever told me about this
guy. >> So Tim's defense team never knew about any of those three guys I just talked
about. And there were so many people in the case file that I think warranted a deeper look. I mean, there was a guy
named Greg Casease, who I think was the person Peggy was actually dating at the time. Derek Cordova was somebody she had
seen before. A guy named Tim Matthews was someone who supposedly liked Peggy and was jealous of Matt. And I'm not
saying any of these guys had anything to do with it, but clearly these guys were
like part of her life and they didn't even do so much as talk to them. >> So there's a lot of other suspects, but
the thing that got the thing that like solidified the exoneration to begin with was the
DNA. So like >> So we have Yes. So this >> what happened with it? >> We do have DNA. That's what ruled Tim
out. The DNA that we have, there was a part of a profile on the waistband of her underwear. Now, mind you, everything
we have is touch DNA, and they tested that part because they figured if her pants were pulled down, maybe her killer
was the one to pull them down. So, we have a waistband of her underwear. Then, they found some mixtures on her clothes,
like her under her arms, her coat, her boots, her pants. They find a full DNA profile on her sleeve. It turns out that
was just a cop because nobody's wearing gloves back then. You guys saw it. And we do know that there was a match to
the DNA found on her waistband of her underwear. And do you guys want to guess who it was?
It was Matt Zner. So, we have this match to the partial >> Mhm. >> profile. Why isn't that enough to
confirm to say to convict Matt? >> Well, Linda Wheeler thinks it should be. >> I want Matt Zoler to know that I'm still
after him. I want him to know to make up some little hiccup or something that in
his life that he'll make a mistake that we can catch him on. But it's like I just when I when I I I know who did it
and he's not held accountable and he's been free for 30ome years that uh the attorney general did all they could and
I really felt that they did. But it's like but I'm not done and I I don't I don't want to be silenced. There's still
a wrong that was done and I still feel like something might good might come out of of this case getting reopened and and
refocused on that there somebody might come up with something that's said or done that we didn't know about that
allows us to take this case further and keep it opened. >> Now the problem is there could be
explanations for the DNA like touch DNA. You don't know when it's put there. It can be transferred. We know that her and
Matt had a relationship. We know that they interacted the night she died. We know they went to dinner like within the
last week and nobody asked them about that. Like >> it's not 100%. We also have the Missy Woods of it all.
If anyone listened to our John Ramsey episode, you'll remember that Colorado is having a DNA reckoning right now
because a woman who worked in their lab from like the '9s to 2023 was found to be like falsifying a bunch of stuff.
like wasn't following policy and procedure. All of the cases she worked on are under investigation.
>> There's a lot in question when it comes to DNA that's being handled, stored, >> right,
>> processed through Colorado for decades now. >> And even though a lot of it, like, you
know, some of that stuff was done in that independent lab in Holland. Again, >> stored in Colorado.
>> It all was there. And so, is that going to be something that a defense team uses? It's totally possible. I also
think that like a defense team basically like has all these open ends because of
Richard Hammond as well. Like you without that door being closed, some very powerful people made sure we'd
never know what was on those tapes. We made sure that we could never like fully close that door or cross them off the
list. And so I think it's going to potentially make a prosecution very difficult. But I also think that they
should be we have multiple other partial profiles that didn't match Matt. And I think we should be testing these other
people, too. >> And just to show you how much I think can still be done, because I think DNA
testing is going to help. I think it's going to potentially take this case forward, but there is just so much leg
work that can still be done. Right now, no one is working this case. And as we were literally coming like getting ready
to do this show for you guys, we came across another person who we had never heard before. this guy named Randy
England who is in prison right now but who had a streak of crimes from 1977 to 87 and his crimes it shows that he was
clearly escalating in northern Colorado and he was super active in 87 when Peggy
was murdered and we found this note in one of Tim's lawyers like papers that said quote England cut off nipples too
and I don't we haven't been able to track that down we're still trying to request records. But there's also this
tip in Peggy's case that someone saw a car with Wyoming license plates at around the time that she's thought to
have been murdered. He had a car with Wyoming license plates. So again, I don't know if this means anything, but I
know that it means there's more that needs to be done, more people to talk to, more to track down, more leg work
that the state of Colorado is just not doing. Now, after Tim was released, he went on
to write a book about his case, about the prosecution, about his wrongful conviction. We relied on it heavily for
this. We relied on talking to him and talking to Tom. And he said since since his wrongful conviction, he's just been
like trying to live his life. He likes working on cars. He likes working with horses. He likes spending time with
people he loves. And he actually has a really surprising confidant these days. I think it is really ironic that the the
former lead investigator in the case who came to arrest me in 1992 is actually one of my dearest friends now, Linda
Holloway. Turns out she's a really good person. She put herself out there so much. Linda
Holloway put herself out there so much to do the right thing. It just for one, she it greatly endear me to
her. I'm I'm not good with good at words, but it's very endearing that she did that. She put herself out there for
me, and it just speaks volumes to her integrity. She's she's just one of those people that will do she'll do the right
thing regardless. She just has she does the right thing. That's a rare person in
this world. I mean, a lot of people wouldn't go out on a limb like she did. They would just
go with the grain. life would have been a lot easier for her if she had just gone with the grain and not not gone
gone against everybody else. >> Tom Hedrickk was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer two and a half years ago.
So you heard at the top of the show he has limited time and he's the last person talking about Peggy before now.
this is why we are talking about Peggy and it's what has made him like feel this sense of urgency to get her name
out there and for you to know her story. >> I said you guys have had 30ome years to
do your job and I said obviously at this point you're telling me the case is closed
and I said but the fella upstairs is going to they're not getting by him. he already knows who it is and he'll take
care of this problem. And they just all they're all all their faces just turned white. And I said, "He'll he will get
the final say. You've had your chance." And uh and I said, "What's it going to take to reopen this?" Because they told
me it was closed. And they said, "Short of a full confession, nothing." I said, "You what?" and they said unless
somebody actually comes forward and admits to it completely and and fully uh we can't reopen this
case. And I just I was as far as I was concerned with that meeting I was done. I wanted to get out of there because for
over 30ome years we I've waited around for something to to take place for this and then they take somebody and they put
him in prison for 9 years and he's innocent as the driven white snow and they ruin his life to a certain extent
and then he gets out and and rightfully so. And and here we are. Here we are today, right now, doing this interview,
and still nothing has been done about it. And it's like everybody just wants to turn a blind eye to it and move on.
What? What? Move on? Well, you're I don't have much longer to go because I have a disease that'll take
my life soon and I want something done about I want the people that have the ability to do their job to get busy and
do their job. That's what they need to do instead of just turning a blind eye. Well, you know, it is what it is. Case
closed. There have been a lot of mistakes in this case that I've learned through
media, through the newspaper, from Linda, quite a bit from Linda. And uh I'm not happy, very upset about this.
So, I don't have longer to go, so I want something done about it immediately. So, this is where you guys come in. I
need you to get out your phones. This is the time to do it. Everyone take out your phones. This QR code will take you
to a place where you can just put in your information and we made it super easy.
>> Ashley, do you see all these phones? >> Beautiful, >> but it will email the attorney general
and say that we're requesting that you guys reopen Peggy's case. We're now the people who have to pick up this for Tom
and speak on behalf of Tom and Peggy. So, I'm going to give you a minute. I'm going to put it up afterwards, too. We
are so grateful that you guys are here. It is. I cannot express to you how weird
this is. >> It's wild. Six years ago, we did a show in a basement in Philly where it was
pouring rain and it was leaking and there was 100 people there and it was and I don't know how we got here and we
got but we got here because of you and you guys are wonderful and our team. I want to say a huge thank you. There's
amazing audio check people here you guys who helped put this together. >> We can't do a show like this by
ourselves. They're absolutely incredible. >> We can't do an episode without them.
>> Thank you guys. >> Thank you guys. You are amazing. >> We'll see you on Monday.

This story was told live on the Crime Junkie Life Rule #10 Tour, in front audiences in 17 cities across the United States. This live show is a Webby Award nominee (Best Live Podcast Recording), and now, we’re sharing the live telling of this case with you!

On the morning of February 11, 1987, the body of Peggy Lee Hettrick (37) was discovered in a field near Fort Collins, Colorado, following a trail of blood stretching over 100 feet.

What investigators found at the scene raised immediate questions around a staged appearance, signs of postmortem mutilation, and a crime that didn’t match a typical motive But instead of following the evidence… investigators focused on the wrong person.

In this special Crime Junkie LIVE episode, recorded during the Life Rule #10 Tour, Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat break down one of the most troubling cases we’ve ever covered and how a wrongful conviction derailed the search for the truth.

We explore Peggy Hettrick’s final known movements on February 10–11, 1987 in Fort Collins, Colorado, the evidence found at the scene and what investigators overlooked, how Timothy Masters (15) became the primary suspect, the lack of physical evidence tying him to the crime, and the years-long fight that led to his exoneration in 2008.

But this story doesn’t end there. Because while one person was wrongfully convicted… the real person responsible for Peggy Hettrick’s murder has never been held accountable. And evidence suggests there were other viable suspects, individuals investigators failed to fully pursue.

Join us in asking the Colorado Attorney General to reopen Peggy’s case, assign a new investigator and explore new DNA testing by following this link: https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/justice-for-peggy-hettrick/

Key Episode Moments: 00:00 Intro 02:50 Crime Junkie LIVE Tour 04:20 Peggy Hettrick Found 10:20 Strange Crime Scene Evidence 13:00 Peggy’s Final Night 16:00 Teen Suspect: Timothy Masters 26:30 Case Built on Drawings 36:10 Arrest & Trial 44:20 Conviction & Prison 49:10 Case Reopened 58:00 Release & Exoneration 01:03:20 Other Suspects 01:19:00 New Suspect 01:37:00 DNA Evidence & What’s Next 01:43:30 Call to Action – Outro -------

Follow Crime Junkie: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crimejunkiepodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CrimeJunkiePodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/CrimeJunkiePod Crime Junkie is created and hosted by Ashley Flowers.

About Ashley Flowers Ashley Flowers is the top female podcaster in the U.S. and the host of Crime Junkie, the #1 podcast among women and the #1 true crime podcast globally. As the Founder of audiochuck, she has built a top-tier podcast production company that has garnered over 2.6 billion downloads, captivating audiences with its gripping storytelling through 10+ chart topping podcasts. Ashley and her team are dedicated to creating responsible true crime content that respects victims and their families.

Follow Ashley: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ASHLEYFLOWERS/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/ash_flowers TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ashleyflowerscrimejunkie Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ashleyflowers.af/

Check out these other great crime channels: @kallmekris How OJ Simpson Got Away With Murder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JhksB7R8HY @annieelise Dumbest Teens Ever Laugh at Attempted Murder Charges | Isabelle Valdez & Lois Lippert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4dOn_Vi-z0 @KendallRae Jealous Rage Fueled Shooting Or Accidental Firing? The Case Danielle Nemetz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVMROZxJHLg @CoffeehouseCrime There's Something Wrong with Erica https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT8YfRHNuSA

Brief Summary

Tom Hetrick seeks justice for his sister Peggy's unsolved murder while discussing the wrongful conviction of Tim Masters.

Key points

The Murder of Peggy Hetrick. Peggy Hetrick was found murdered in 1987, and the investigation reveals chilling details.
Witnesses and Theories. Witness accounts and theories about Peggy's last movements raise questions about her murder.
The Polygraph Dilemma. Tim believes he's innocent, but the polygraph suggests otherwise. 'Never take a polygraph.'
The Abyss of Loss. Tom reflects on the devastating impact of Peggy's murder. 'You feel like you've fallen into an abyss.'
Tim's Arrest. After years of being a suspect, Tim is arrested for Peggy's murder. 'What? What for?'
A Call to Action. Listeners are urged to take small steps to address systemic issues.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I'm not afraid of anything anymore.

A declaration of strength in the face of terminal illness.

2:27WatchApr 8, 2026

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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