The Devil's Teeth ////// Part 2 of 4 | Forensic Files

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all right Captain that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
crime [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] on August 7 1972 in Springfield New
Jersey parents Salvatore and Florence De Palma tried to call the police they wanted to report their daughter Jeanette
who is 16 years old either is missing or as a runaway they were told that their daughter would have to have been missing
for at least 24 hours before they could take the report earlier that day Jeanette had had at
least one argument with a parent before leaving her home to venture off to her friend's house which was eight
miles away the plan was she was going to walk three miles by herself and take the
train the rest of the way to her friend's house she was also scheduled to work at her part-time job later after
going to her friend's house she never arrived at work she never arrived at her friend's home
we did cover some speculation and some rumors regarding of where she may have gone that day however there are people
to suggest that either she did go to this party or there was no party at all we also suggested that that could be
just poor recollection on the on the part of these young teenagers who are being asked questions why are they being
asked questions because not only is this girl missing but approximately six weeks
later her body is found in a wooded area on a cliff known as the devil's teeth right and so they're asking her they're
asking these kids about these events that took place six weeks prior now we got into the whole thing of
whether this was a situation where the parents had reported her as missing or as a runaway the police state that the
De Palma family called in a situation that their daughter had run away right the police would later give different
accounts on this situation because they were interviewing the parents and according to the police it was the de
Palmas that had reported Jeanette as a runaway police would later say that a runaway situation is not really
investigated that they they give a description of the girl they give some brief information to their beat cops
right and if nobody sees the girl they don't really do anything you might kick the bushes a little bit but you don't
spend a lot of time working on a situation where somebody left willingly from their home
now they did interview Jeanette's parents the problem that investigators had with with her parents was this they
claimed that the answers that they got from her parents regarding the the final day the
day that Jeanette had disappeared these answers were short and often vague answers and almost with no details and
the police did not seem to like this they thought that the the the Palmas would have more answers for them they
would have some details some information that might provide some leads into the eventual murder of their daughter but
just a few days after their daughter was found the mother said some odd things to
the newspaper yes and this a lot of people in the public took some issue with these statements now this was
Florence De Palma this was just two days after the discovery of jeannette's body
she tells a local newspaper this is the Newark Star Ledger and quote she says she had resigned herself to her
daughter's death weeks ago now mind you she's saying weeks ago and yet her daughter's body was just found two days
before giving the statement to the newspaper and she states that the Lord had told her and had gave her peace
weeks before finding the body of her daughter and some would point out that that suggests that maybe the parents
knew something or maybe the parents had some kind of involvement in the the actual murder or what took place with
their daughter yeah so maybe the parents know a little more or maybe it's just some other intuition that she eventually
felt like she had to accept well when I find out a little bit more information about the parents and about the De Palma
family I don't find her statement to be so incriminating let's say um we have statements from her other
daughter Cindy now Cindy was older than Jeanette from my understanding there were two other daughters living in the
home with Jeanette now I said that they had a large family like seven or eight kids I'm assuming the other kids had
grown and moved out of the home but it's often reported that the two remaining daughters you know after they found the
body of Jeannette newspaper articles will say the two remaining daughters so I'm assuming just two of them live there
now Cindy is the only one that I could find that would give statements that would talk about this case for years to
come I wish we had a little more information from Cindy as to what was going on with inside the walls of that
De Palma home during the course of when Jeanette was still missing and the body had not been found because I'm assuming
that if her mother had resigned herself to her daughter's death weeks ago before
before the discovery of the body that there would be things going on with inside that home you know you would
think that she would almost be would she be comforting her husband or her husband
comforting her you would you would think there would be a lot of dread inside that home prior to the finding of the
body but the reason why I say that it I don't find that that statement to be so incriminating is one thing we have to
keep in mind here and factor in in this situation is that the De Palma family especially the parents were extremely
religious from my understanding that they went to the way that it's been reported was they
were not just the type that that attended church on a weekly basis that they would often go multiple times
per week and that they were extremely religious and I that's why I don't find it so
incriminating because I could see with somebody being incredibly religious and their daughter having been gone for
three four weeks I mean you start hope you lose hope you lose a little bit of Hope every day each
day as it gets further and further from the last time that you saw your child and at some point you might just have to
put that faith in God and you might be looking for answers and she may have come to this conclusion
or or felt that felt that she was being given this information well this is part
of the reason why this case to me is so frustrating because for every bit of information that you think maybe you're
going to get closer to having a picture of what was going on [Music] it seems like there's a counter story so
one story is that the family is really religious and so again she had this uh God told her your child pass accept it
okay that's one story the other story is that the family is not that religious and that one of their daughters started
going to a different church that was not their denomination right but then the family started going to that church and
then there's reports that Jeanette is highly involved in church Works uh for some teen crisis center type thing maybe
crisis center is not the whole right word but um you know where she's like mentoring
yeah and there's other reports that she was not involved in church at all that she possibly was involved in like
witchcraft and so that's what's so frustrating about this case the same it's the same
thing we saw when we discussed her Jeanette's character what kind of person she may have been what kind of teenager
she could have been yeah it's you have half the room telling us that she was super religious and she was super into
going to church and she was uh trying to Mentor some of her peers to find religion and to join the church and then
you have the other half of the room saying almost the opposite the exact opposite stating no her parents drug her
there her family drug her there multiple times a week I think they called it a drug and alcohol counselor which is
weird to have a drug and alcohol counselor be 16 but I think it was more of a system setup where
if if a teenager was having issues where they could call and it would be somebody
of their own age to say hey come to the church we love you we care about you let's get
you some help if that makes any sense well yeah because you would have that that would
provide someone the opportunity to discuss what's going on inside their life and things maybe that they've
experimented with right without the fear of getting in trouble you know from anybody without their parents finding
out or a teacher or something like that yeah so supposedly she did do this you know but again
probably a story out there that says that she never even went to that church well while we're on the subject of these
newspaper articles there were several that came out within the two weeks of the discovery of her body and there were
several that of significance in my opinion there are two that I would like to discuss and here are the headlines
from these two the first one is uh headline girl sacrificed in which right and the second is De Palma's say Slayers
possessed by demons I think we should go through both of these because this is where this might
be where the the Genesis of where these rumors about Witchcraft and Satanism having been involved in jeannette's
murder let's start with the one that's called uh Girl sacrifice and which right yeah and here's the important little
snippet from from that article it starts investigation into the death of 16 year
old Jeanette De Palma is focusing on elements of black Witchcraft and Satan worship a review of death scene photos
according to reports is leading authorities to believe the girl's death may have been in the nature of a
sacrifice pieces of wood at first thought to be at the scene by chance are now seen as symbols detectives
throughout Union County have been alerted to the possibility that a cult or a cult member played a part in the
death a search party discovered her remains she had been missing six weeks on September 19th in a wooded area of a
quarry atop a 40-foot Cliff about 400 yards from shun Pike Road one Searcher said two pieces of wood
were crossed on the ground over her head more wood framed the body like a coffin
another person who was there said I guess if you were looking for signs they were there all right just go ahead and
read the next one so we can dive into both of them at the same time and I'm going to kind of give a summary of this
article because it's it's a bit longer but it starts by saying parents say daughter may have been murdered by
persons whose bodies are possessed by demons then the article mentions the following incidents of Witchcraft in the
area also stating authorities said that Jeanette's death may be linked to a coven or witchcraft assembly in the area
and what's especially troubling here is this is the first mention of of this situation
this article also mentions acts of animal sacrifice this taking place in a reservation nearby stating that State
Park police found these acts committed against dogs cats and even a goat the reporter wrote about a bowl of blood
that was found the bowl of Blood also contained the bodies of pigeons who had had their necks snapped I think it's
important to point out though when we're talking about the animal sacrifices that
the State Park police had found yeah that this was in a nearby reservation this was not in the same area where
Jeanette's body was found it's I think it's key to point that out yeah but how many miles away
I don't I don't know off the off the top of my head here I mean look if it's five
to ten miles in that radius could it be linked possibly what I'm getting at though is yeah is there possible that
it's spillover or at some point that they moved into another area yeah that could happen but what I what I want to
make sure that I point out here is those acts those things that they believed were going on in that reservation were
not going on in the area where Jeanette's body was eventually found they found no evidence of that at any
time right there's rumors that there was witchcraft activities going on at Devil's call or Devil's teeth but those
were just rumors and maybe maybe the name itself Devil's teeth inspires those rumors yeah this again Devil's teeth is
a difficult place to get to so you know we're a bunch of devil worships going up
there to perform to acts uh probably not likely right and it sounds like they were leaving I hate to be gross but they
were leaving the carcasses and they were leaving evidence of such at this reservation like it was pretty easily
found you know they were finding blood and they were finding bodies of animals now I could find one story specifically
talking about chickens and I know that that newspaper article referenced dogs cats and a goat right however I couldn't
find anything specifically saying that they had found carcasses of a dog cat or even a goat right again these could just
be rumors then the other rumors that are weirder these items that were left at her body these Blair Witch type
items that would be be left at the at our sacrifice scene yeah well and that's what I want to kind of focus in on we
should push away the stuff that's going on may or may not be going on at the reservation and talk specifically about
what was found with her body and at the crime scene now there are three generally three different reports of
what are considered to be likely what was found there because this is all over the shop Captain we have different
people saying different things were found at the crime scene the first one I want to discuss is we have the police
officer officer Don that we had spoke about yesterday he was involved in he was the one that responded to the call
about the arm at the apartment complex and he was part of the search he was one of the first people to see her body atop
of that Cliff yeah now what he described at the scene was he described a single cross a single wooden cross now I have
to we we have to be clear here this is not a wooden cross that somebody built and had nailed into the ground this is
what he describes as a large stick crossed over by a smaller stick that would form the appearance of a cross
lying on the ground this would have been just above if you were at the feet if you were at her feet looking at the body
this would be just above her head right so some people would say it's like you know a headstone almost right but he
also says that it looks like there was a tree and that possibly a tree just fell
over and therefore making the cross he says between the cross itself and Jeanette's body
were four or five stones that looked like they were placed around her head giving the the image of almost a Halo
right those are the only things that he describes finding there or seeing before
he's told by detectives to get off the cliff and go down and tell tell people to back up and get away
we have another account this is from a girl named Lisa she's about she would have been about Jeanette's age and I
don't want to give her full name but she says that she went to the crime scene two days after the body was found
and when she got there the crime scene tape the police tape was still they had still roped off the area right right but
that there was nobody guarding the area so she went up there this is almost like
uh like a Stand By Me situation you know going out to see a body but they've already removed Jeanette's Body by this
time but it's not as cool I mean think about that if stand by him if Stephen King said hey I'm going to make a movie
or there you go you want to see a body yeah and they go but there is no body do you want to go see where it happened not
as cool right hey for anybody out there listening this is just my own opinion the movie Stand By Me incredibly good
the the book that it's based from the body very good that's something people should check out anyway let's go get
into what Lisa says that she had saw there now remember we said that that Jeanette's body had kind of sunken into
the ground right so when Lisa went up there you could still see the outline of where the body once was so it's not like
you she's looking at some random spot she's looking at a spot that is correct and what she described was that there
was a large log that would have run uh above where her head would have been and then a smaller log that would have been
right at her feet and then to each side of the body were multiple makeshift crosses from from small branches
this gives a vague picture of maybe a coffin-like thing or resting area for some some say that they were building
kind of an altar and that's where the sacrifice had to happen was on this altar you know
but you know not not where we look at it as like you know I was raised Catholic so you think of alter being something
that was raised right but this was you know basically we're creating an altar on the ground like a perimeter around
the body right so not so much uh a casket the third account is what is described according to newspaper
accounts and this is kind of a combination of the two we have the cross that we spoke about that officer Don saw
above the head and then we had the log going up by the head area the log also at the feet area and then the body is
positioned between two logs as well giving a full outline of either an altar or a coffin-like uh situation now with
inside that perimeter that was created by those four logs we have multiple makeshift small crosses created by
branches small branches on both sides of the body this is coming from Lisa this is the from newspaper accounts okay so
we so we have Lisa's accounts that are similar to this newspaper account well in a sense it's it's almost like
officer Don's account is minimal you know they're he's only finding a few items there and then Lisa's is a little
more extravagant there's the addition of the logs with multiple makeshift crosses
on both sides of the body right and then the newspaper account is like a combination of the two but on steroids
where you have everything involved and you have you have a bunch of stuff surrounding
this body so what's your gut telling you what I think Captain is I I favor officer Don's account as well as the
teenager leases account rather than the newspaper and I have nothing I have very
little to base this off of but the newspaper account seems to be the most extravagant it seems to contain the most
items up there oh right but they're they're in the business of selling stories right it could just be
sensationalism you know for the purpose of their articles which you and I absolutely hate that I I think I
question that if any of the writers had even been to the location I think that they were probably basing what they
thought was there off of other people's stories and off of other people's accounts of what they may or may not
have saw okay so what was found by the body in my opinion yeah um I I think that it was probably like I
said I think that the more accurate statements would be either Lisa's account or officer Don's account
so okay so to contradict officer Don's account we have another officer that says yes there were Sticks and Stones up
there near the body the body was found in the middle of the woods and in this officer's opinion the Sticks and Stones
were just there by chance they weren't arranged by anyone nobody had placed them there that they were just there
because Sticks and Stones exist in the woods right now officer Dawn you know these two are not really these two
officers aren't really saying one is right and one is is wrong you know he's saying Don would have seen Sticks and
Stones up there but I don't believe they were arranged now officer Don would say
well this officer was only up on top of that Hill for a very short period of time before being asked to leave and
what I believe I saw appeared to have been purposely placed in position near the body
the thing here is under this situation both of these officers would have been asked to leave the area relatively
quickly after finding the body where you have somebody like Lisa who if she did venture out there two days later she's
she's looking at something and not being removed she she can stand there as long
as she likes and observe whatever is there whatever's present now keep in mind it is in fact two days after the
body was removed from there somebody could have altered the scene I think that leases could be slightly
exaggerated she I'm just factoring in that she's a teenager I'm factoring in that she might have been scared while
she was up there that also she's like think about what the one officer said yes of course there were Sticks and
Stones up there it's the woods for crying out loud right I think maybe she may have seen things up there and put
into a little more uh thought that was necessary into what items she was looking at
I think the answer for me and what my belief would be is that it's somewhere between officer Don's account and Lisa's
account of what was seen up there and it's also possible that somebody went up there and had these little crosses made
out of sticks and put them down as like a memorial to the girl I mean you see that all the time somebody dies in a car
wreck you know two days later it's like there's a bunch of crosses that put somebody put down could be something
like that but from all the accounts and all the interviews I've heard the majority of
the police officers say there wasn't anything there right I'm not going to go too far-fetched with this Lisa
Turtle story you know there was no crosses there was no nothing because that would have been
reported by multiple cops if there were crosses there weren't were there some sticks that were placed in certain you
know look it could be as simple as the area was altered before or after the murder and that's
why there there is some sign of any of that but to me there is no sign of that this was a sacrifice or witchcraft yeah
it's it's a strange situation because like you said we have multiple officers saying that there was nothing up there
to suggest that and then we have two of the officers one who says at the scene hey this looks like Witchcraft and then
another officer officer Don stating I saw a cross and I saw some Stones arranged near the head
thank you [Music] [Music] all right we're back cheers mate cheers captain now I tell you what regardless
of what was found up at the scene okay because it's all over the shop either nothing was found
some items were found or a whole bunch of items were found that were resembled items that would be satanic in
nature or witchcraft the thing here is we there was a great book written about this case and it's
called the death on the devil's teeth and this was written by Jesse Pollock and Mark Moran now one thing these two
guys did these guys are authors I believe they work for or founded something called weird New Jersey or
weird NJ which I guess is like a bi-annually publication that comes out for uh weird things that happen in the
state of New Jersey is that right Captain biannually does that mean twice a year or every other year I always get
confused when I hear that I but I believe their publication comes out twice a year now one thing these guys
did which was great was they took the information of what was speculated to have been found at the scene according
to officer Dawn according to the teenager Lisa that we discussed and according to the newspaper Accounts at
the time and they took this information and they presented it to some experts in
the field of of which craft and Satanism to get their opinions on you know if if
in fact these items were found at the scene what can we make of it right okay so the the first Professor that they
talked to and this is Ronald Hutton now he teaches courses on contemporary paganism at the University of Bristol he
says that the items that he sees and the items that he has been told and described to him as being placed at the
at the murder scene at the crime scene and his opinion are not even items considered to be that of a pagan or
ritual magic relationship he says that um regardless of what or wasn't found at the scene items described in his opinion
these are all traditionally Christian symbols that would have been found there we talked about cross-like things being
found uh maybe a coffin or an altar like situation being found at the crime scene
right which hence my idea that somebody could have left these after the body was
removed now another professor teaching on the subject points out that uh and I was happy to find this because I I know
a little about this subject I like to read about cold cases um but crunch you know I
I think it out sorry sorry but you know I know a lot of people think that Satanism and Witchcraft and things like
that can come up a lot in these cases and actually that's just not a thing when it does come up it's usually simply
a bad lead or misunderstanding and the reports on Satanism slash with witchcraft being involved it's often
described very hollywood-like presented in ways that seem cheesy and fake to me so I was happy to find this something I
had thought this is from Dr Jason Coy professor of history at the College of Charleston he's a renowned expert in the
field of Witchcraft and he says modern day witches or wiccans have nothing to do with historical Witchcraft and are
generally peaceful environmentalists and feminists who who practice a sort of New
Age neo-pagan religion which he says seems to have nothing to do with this case at all nothing that was presented
to him and nothing to do with Jeanette's murder in his opinion he states that this looks more like the work of some
psychopath with a type of religious fixation well some of those ideas that he was talking about kind of get brought
up in the West Memphis Three case where Damien talks about that he wasn't it was
more so a spiritual View and almost feminist views as well yeah and that's one thing I had always thought like I
said I knew very little about this but that was always my understanding that these are not traditionally violent
people looking to go out and make actual sacrifices on humans or or animals uh while we're on that subject though
Captain I want to mention though I you had asked about where uh regarding the location of those quote unquote animal
sacrifices that we discussed right that took place at a place called the wachung
I hope I said that right this is not right I did not say that but I'm not terribly off I can't be terribly off
because it's w-a-t-c-h-u-n-g reservation now I don't know the location and proximity to where
her body was found well what good are you but what I do know is I'm just reviewing my notes here that according
to police they refer to these as uh Santeria acts that they found evidence of this in the uh reservation and this
is the the largest park in Union County so it's in the same county as where she was found and the reservation is a
1945 acre Force so a very extremely large area now we pulled that information from the article that was
titled the Palmas say Slayers possessed by demons there was also one thing that was extremely interesting near the end
of this article and that is the and this is straight from the article stating quote the investigation has also been
widened to include a review of the list murders well Captain we have not even got to
this portion of the case yet not Lisk right list some people hear that and they hear Lisk l-i-s-k but it's a list
yeah like I wrote a list I was researching in this case and I was like this might have something to do with the
Lisk murders and I thought Long Island serial killer like again it goes back to 72. oh my God this is so fascinating
then I realized that was a [ __ ] so why would why would they suggest that the investigation according to this article
and quote the investigation has also been widened to include the review of the list murders
well we have to paint a picture here captain and it's not a party box murders so the list murders are a a family was
murdered in this area just months before Jeanette had gone missing and this is considered to be one of the
most famous cases from the state of New Jersey you got to keep in mind though the
community was still suffering and still trying to heal and and still trying to make sense of this
horrible crime that had happened just months before this teenage girl goes missing and then is ultimately found
dead in the woods right now the list murders were not discovered until December 7th of 1971. remember our
Jeanette De Palma case is taking place in August and September of 1972 so less than a year later
what we have here though Captain is upon a welfare check to a home occupied by The List family
now this home is referred to as a mansion and it was given the name Brees Knoll and I don't know if that was given
to the home by the family or if it had had that name prior to their purchasing of this Mansion but
police are responding to a welfare call at this seemingly well to do family we have a home where what was reported is
that the family would be gone on some type of vacation visiting the um the mother's mother who lived in North
Carolina and they had told people that they would be there for several weeks the the milk deliveries had stopped at
the home the mail had been stopped as well as newspapers but there were lights that were left on
inside the home day and night and apparently no activity going on within or around the home
finally neighbors began to get concerned as the lights began to burn out one by one and it almost appeared like the
family had left the home and they were never going to return so when the police respond to this welfare call they decide
to enter the home they find an unlocked window in front of the house towards the
front of the home and they decide to enter the home through there as they made their way through the home they
could hear what sounded like either symphony music or religious music like being played over a radio
they made their way to now mind you this was referred to as the ballroom I believe which you would think would be
like some big grandioso room right but it was two feet by two feet it was a ballroom for a puppeteer as for
all those tiny dancers but they get to what was referred to as the ballroom and when they get there the
room's not as large as one would would expect to see but they find the bodies of
of children and of a woman and they are lying face down on on sleeping bags now all of the victims had been shot in the
head the police are pretty frightened by this discovery and shocked to say the least
but now they're going to move room by room throughout the home they're kind of expecting that they could encounter a
killer that is hiding in a corner somewhere in one of these rooms with a gun ready to kill whoever finds them
yeah Psycho Killer so as they move room to room they make their way to what is in fact the man of the home uh the man
of the house it's his office and this is John list it's his office and on the desk they they see a series
of letters and they find an envelope that is addressed to John List's pastor this is Reverend Eugene raywinkle the
letter is dated November 9th 1971 and it reads dear pastor I'm very sorry to add this additional
burden to your work I know that what has been done is wrong from all that I have
been taught and that any reason that I might give will not make it right but you are the one person that I know that
while not condoning this will at least possibly understand why I had to do this I wasn't earning anywhere near enough to
support us everything I tried seemed to Fall to Pieces true we could have gone bankrupt and
maybe gone on welfare but that brings me to my next point knowing the type of location one would
have to live in plus the environment for the children plus the effect on them knowing that they were on welfare was
just more than I thought they could handle I know that they were willing to cut back but this involved a lot more than
that with Pat being so determined to get into acting I was also fearful as to what this might
do to her continuing to be a Christian I'm sure it wouldn't have helped also with Helen not going to church
I knew this would harm the children eventually in their attendance I had continued to hope that she would begin
to come to church soon but when I mentioned that to her she just blew up and stated that she wanted
her name taken off of the church roles again this could have only given an adverse result for the children's
continued attendance so that is the sum of it if any one of these had been the condition we might have pulled through
but this was too much at last I'm certain that all have gone to heaven now if things had gone on who knows if that
would be the case of course mother got involved because doing what I did to my family
would have been a tremendous shock to her at this age therefore knowing that she was also a Christian
I felt it best that she be relieved of the Troubles of this world that would have hit her
after it was all over I said some prayers for all of them from the hymn book that was the least I could do
now for the final Arrangements and the children have all agreed that they would prefer to be cremated
please see to it that the costs are kept low for mother she has a plot at the church
Cemetery also I don't know what will happen to the books and other personal things
but to the extent possible I would like for them to be distributed as you see fit
some books might go into the school or church library originally I had planned this for
November 1st All Saints Day but travel Arrangements were delayed I thought it would be an appropriate day
for them all to get to heaven as for me please let me be dropped from the congregation rolls
I Leave myself in the hands of God's justice and mercy I don't doubt that he is able to help us
but apparently he saw fit not to answer my prayers the way that I hoped they would be
answered this makes me think that perhaps it was best as far as the children's souls are
concerned I know that many will only look at the additional years that they could have
lived but if finally they were no longer Christians what would be gained also I am sure many will say how could
anyone do such a horrible thing my only answer is it isn't easy and was only done after much thought
one other thing it may seem cowardly to have always shot from behind but I didn't want any of
them to know even at the last second that I had to do this to them John got hurt more because he seemed to
struggle longer the rest were immediately out of pain John didn't consciously feel anything
either please remember me in your prayers I will need them whether or not the government does its
Duty as it sees fit I am only concerned with making peace with God and of this I am assured because of
Christ dying even for me P.S mother is in the hallway in the Attic on the third floor
she was too heavy to move signed John so very obvious captain that John list murdered his wife three children and his
mother before writing that letter on November 9 1971. yeah after he wrote the letter he
turned on the music he locked the doors and he left the house the police obviously looking for Mr list who is now
a mass murderer they did some checking into his background because they had some
evidence regarding the letter that he left them or for the pastor more appropriately of what led him to
committing these crimes and he talks a lot about uh being a Christian and going to church and however ultimately he
commits a very unchristian-like act to solve his troubles and not wanting to put his family
through any troubles well maybe discuss this with them first right he Cho he he chose to get a redo and didn't give them
the option for that now what it appears to me to be Captain is that this family was living well
beyond their means and this has got to be um primarily his fault he's the man of
the house he's the one that's in charge of paying the bills and probably setting
a budget for the household his wife did suffer some type of illness and I don't have that specifically here in my notes
but I know that she suffered some type of illness that caused their um maybe even some dementia uh from her
where she would she would act out at times and this was a big reason why she was not attending the church like he had
referenced in the letter he does mention his oldest daughter in the letter saying that she had kind of
fallen out of the church that she wanted to get into acting and that caused him to question her Christianity yeah and he
also thought that maybe the more she got into acting the worse that would get for
her Christianity correct and if had he not done this act uh when he did maybe she would not have been received into
heaven apparently Not only was he overspending and spending beyond the means of their
income but the mother lived with them because this was such an expensive home that he
had to go to her for money uh whether it be for the down payment or to pay the mortgage probably both but the agreement
was that she would live in an apartment that they basically furnished in the Attic of this Mansion quote unquote
mansion she lived there and he apparently at some point lost his job and rather than informing his family of
this it was for it was for many many months every day he would wake up he would shower he would get ready for work
he would dress in a suit and tie and he would leave the house and he would go to
a local bus station and he would sit there and he would read all day long and he would come home at the end of each
day now I'm sure at times he was probably looking for work because he did ultimately find work but once he had the
family was so far behind on its bills and behind in in debt that he chose to take the lives of his family and like I
said give himself a redo but not give anybody else the option of this and as sad as it is I mean it's it's horrible
and it reminds us so much of the William Bradford Bishop case that we discussed when we covered the FBI's most wanted
list it's a guy that did the same thing to his family and to his mother just a couple years after this took place uh
with the list family he shot John list shot all of his family members with a nine millimeter gun and like he said in
the letter from behind in a very cowardly way leaving them displayed in the Ballroom in the mother up in the
attic where this ties to the case to the case of Janet De Palma It's Tricky it's really tricky to say
but I feel like we needed to cover this into uh give somewhat of a detailed description of this crime because it
would be rare when you research the Jeanette case when you research her case it is rare to find any mention of her
case without them referencing the list murders or John list and his family well one because in this area these are the
two biggest probably murder cases ever in this area and and they're happening less than one year apart both unsolved
at the time of the investigation and then you have books that were found it seems to be that there were things found
within the list home that would suggest that the oldest daughter the one that was getting into
acting and that John said was getting further from the church right that she may have been involved in some
witchcraft or Wiccan type activity now it has been referenced from her Diaries uh entries that she made into
her journal and books and materials that were found within the home this is the tie this is what ties this to De Palma's
case when you talk about Satanism and the possibility of witchcraft the even the possibility that that
Jeanette herself was involved in witchcraft books yes were these books and that's it right yeah that well
really that's it and that's what's sad is that this is reported that oh the police are now going to widen their
investigation into the list murders because of Jeanette's case however it's it's a lot of what we've seen before and
what we suspect with some of those newspaper articles regarding things that were found at Jeanette's crime scene was
that there's some sensationalism going on here oh yeah and for first of all ah Mr list you use my friend
use a piece of [ __ ] but this has nothing to do with it his daughter probably was interested in
probably some spirituality stuff she probably was doing some research uh Curious you know just because you have
some books on the Shelf about a subject matter doesn't mean that you're into that right I mean like if somebody went
to the Colonel's house right now right the alarm would go off okay right but they get past the alarm okay to get past
the five dogs or whatever you got two dogs Mr dog lover leave the dogs alone please
I would like to have my dogs when I get there well one might bite your head off but then they get to the Bookshelf right
past all the porno mags they get to the Bookshelf there's no porno backs but go ahead
you know just because you have all these books about serial killers and mass murderers and
all that doesn't make you one right that's my point and I think is it just the naivete of the of the 70s
where they just jump to these crazy conclusions or or is it what you said during our
break if it bleeds it leads yeah and I mean it's sad but that's the truth you know
you you talk about some of the biggest murder cases serial murder and otherwise throughout the history of the world
and what we've seen time and time again it sells newspapers and magazines and people do TV shows about it and two guys
sit in a garage and drink some beer and try to figure things out so we're part of the problem I guess we're part of the
problem yeah maybe I shouldn't have highlighted that for everybody but in this situation 1972 uh neither of us
were around and they this is sensationalism in my opinion for these newspaper articles in reality what we do
know is this is there any chance that these cases are have any involvement in one another
other than being from the same area in the same time period no I couldn't find anything to suggest that that that the
list family even knew the De Palma family yeah the other connection that people were trying to make was that the
oldest list daughter was into Witchcraft and they did seances and they did witchcraft
activities arts and crafts with witchcraft uh up at Devil's skull and so that therefore that maybe she was
Loosely connected to Jeanette and it's it's not true right there's there's really no evidence that there was any
kind of activity that happened at Devil's Devil's teeth is the is there any connection no there's no connection
with the list murders but when you research this uh you know I kept on hearing about these murders and they
might be connected so we thought was important to go through it at least especially if we're going to reference
them later but it's one of those things captain that you have to in this case you have to get over the fact that
they're not connected to the list murders and you have to get over the fact that there's it's leaning towards
that it's more likely that Witchcraft and Satanism was not involved and Jeanette De Palma's murder and once you
get past those two things those those little mountains there and you venture on then you have to question I think that's
when you can start to see what maybe really truly happened here why did she disappear why did she go missing and
ultimately why was she killed and are there other cases that are connected to this one yes and that leaves us here
Captain we have so much more to get to there's been speculation that if this was not witchcraft or satanism
could it possibly have ties to the mafia could this could she have been killed by
a stranger or a friend or a boyfriend was this ultimately some kind of cover-up involving the police
and this is going to lead us down the road of looking into some other murders that may be connected to Jeanette's case
and we also have plenty of suspects to discuss as well all right thanks for joining us in the
garage and telling a friend we had no clue this was gonna turn out to be four episodes it was kind of a
last minute punt situation right Captain we got into this we're like holy moly there's a lot here on the surface it
doesn't appear to be such but there is a lot more to get to We Appreciate everybody joining us this week in the
garage if you want to continue to chat go to truecrimegarage.com we have our blog there there's room for your
comments and your questions there on our website all right until next week Colonel you be good and Captain you be
kind and everybody please don't litter [Music] thank you [Music] [Applause] [Music]

The Devil's Teeth ////// Part 2 of 4

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Episode 180- This case begins with a teenager who goes missing. Several weeks later in September of 1972 a body is discovered atop a cliff, above an abandoned quarry in Springfield, New Jersey. Later it was determined this was the body of the missing teen, Jeannette DePalma. Along with the body it is said that cult related items were recovered from the area. Her body was said to have been resting on a makeshift altar in the woods. The murder of Jeannette DePalma is very bizarre and is still unsolved. This case is not known to most outside of the state of New Jersey. We gather in the garage to try to shed some light on this cold case.Beer of the Week - Secret Stairs by Trillium Brewing CompanyGarage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the mysterious case of Jeanette De Palma, her disappearance, and sensational media connections to witchcraft and the List murders.

Key points

The Mysterious Disappearance. Jeanette De Palma goes missing after leaving home, leading to a frantic search.
Strange Parental Statements. Florence De Palma's unsettling comments raise questions about her involvement.
Rumors of Witchcraft. Investigators explore possible links to black witchcraft and satanic rituals in Jeanette's murder.
Conflicting Accounts of the Scene. Different accounts of the scene raise questions about what was truly found.
The List Family Murders. A shocking discovery leads police to the List family, revealing a tragic crime.
John List's Justification. John List writes a letter explaining his horrific actions before fleeing.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

She had resigned herself to her daughter's death weeks ago.

Florence De Palma's statement after her daughter's body was found.

6:06WatchNov 26, 2022

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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