The Collector & the Fugitive /// Part 1 /// 754 | Forensic Files

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o in June of 1985 detectives and sheriff's deputies searched a large Ranch property in wileyville
California this property would be referred to as the death camp by both police and the local media they were
looking for victims here both alive and evidence of homicide victims in a shelter located behind the
residence authorities discovered a secret room in the back of the bunker posted on the wall was a list of
typewritten rules that read I must always be ready to service my master I must be clean brushed and made
up with my cell neat I must never speak unless spoken to unless in bed I must never look my
master in the eye but must keep my eyes downcast I must never show my disrespect either verbally or silent I
must never cross my my arms or legs in front of my body or clench my fist and unless eating must always keep lips
sealed I must be obedient completely and in all things I must obey and without question or
comment I must always be quiet when locked in my cell I must remember and Obey any
additional rules told to me I must understand that Disobedience any pain trouble or annoyance caused by me to my
master will be grounds for punishment outside of the shelter detectives found a sign that
read if you love something set it free if it doesn't come back hunt it down and kill it this it's true crime garage
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] o this week we are going to start off this story by going to a tiny little
town called Pho California pho is Tiny in both total area and people Pho is just 2 square miles and as of 2020 the
population is just 319 people where we pick up this week's True Crime Story it's
1982 and I would guess that the population would have been about the same back then on Thursday April 29th
1982 the Federal Bureau of Investigation came to Pho and it's roughly 300 residents looking for one guy in
particular and that man was 21-year-old Charles chitat in but this was not just for a friendly check-in you
know the old hey how are you doing house tricks no the FBI was there in Pho SWAT
team raid style this is a guns drawn kick iny door checkin they were there to serve a federal fugitive warrant we got
one dozen FBI agents dressed in camouflage uniforms and four Menino County sheriff's deputies
surrounding a house at Indian Creek Ranch looking for Charles ing he's a federal fugitive from
Hawaii ing was wanted in connection with the theft of a cash of automatic weapons
that he stole from the federal government the FBI SWAT team captured Charles ing that day as he attempted to
flee out the rear door no shots were fired no one was hurt there were guns found at this location ing was taken to
meno County jail and then transported to Federal facilities in San Francisco a second Resident was located in the
process this was Leonard Lake he's age 36 at this time so he's also arrested Sheriff's officials said Lake was booked
on charges of possession of a machine gun as well as several weapons with the serial numbers having been removed so
they come in guns of Blazing what else do he wanted for well the details of his fugitive warrant he was The Mastermind
if we want to call it that of a large amount of automatic weapons that were stolen from a military base Armory in
Hawaii this was back in 1980 at the time in was in the US Marines several suspects in this theft
were arrested including ing he was facing a court Marshal but ing escaped custody and then he went into hiding and
made his way to Northern California when agents caught up with him ing was living
at this Indian Creek Ranch with Leonard Lake and Lake's wife who were the two were working at
caretakers at this Ranch at the time now Captain I am unsure if Leonard Lake was
charged with harboring a fugitive Lake told officials that in was just a friend of his and that he did not know that he
was a wanted Federal fugitive but I've reviewed information that states yes in fact Lake was aware that ing was wanted
and he allowed in to move in with him solely because he was wanted and needed to get out of Hawaii right this will be
a major triggering moment in this week's story this will have a domino effect for
not all but many of the crimes that we will be discussing here in the garage because after the raid Leonard Lake was
released on bond but then he jumps bail so he decided then and there that he would live his life on the Run strange
situation he's harboring a fugitive and during the bust when they pick up ing they bring Leonard Lake up on
several weapons charges and once he makes the bond he jumps bail he decides to then
become a fugitive himself he decided that he would hide out and live his life on the Run he's
not like the this doesn't seem like the most brilliant of Maneuvers here but it seemed to have worked so he decides he's
going to move out and hide out in this remote cabin that was owned by his wife her name is Clarin balaz it was actually
I believe was actually owned by her parents so this is in wileyville which is a community in calaris County
California located in the foothills of Sierra Nevada yeah it's very remote so in was sent off to Marine custody as we
would expect he pleed guilty to the charges he plead guilty to fleeing and under the terms of that plea
deal he was paroled and dishonorably discharged but this will not take place until 1984 after in serves 18 months in
the military Stockade at the US disciplinary barracks in lenworth once he's released he will then join back up
with his buddy Leonard Lake again in Northern California back to the C let's fill in the blanks here on who these
guys are and what happens between the time of this 1982 raid and 1984 when the two meet up
again so these two are real monsters both unique from each other but a lot of similarities as well as I think that we
will see as we venture along here right Charles in was born Bor and raised for many years in British Hong Kong before
moving to the states and then joining the US Marines he was a Bruce Lee wannabe type he also had fantasies of
running organized robbery weapons and bank heist this type of illegal operations similar to the one that he
got busted for to put it in its simplest of forms he basically wanted to get a group of military types together
organize them in Mastermind plots to steal steal and Rob weapons from military bases US military bases and
then sell the guns for large sums of money and Carry Out violent group bank robberies as well kind of like forming
an A team but for bad guys high-risk highly profitable illegal operations Charles ing wanted to be like the Hans
grber but he and his recruits get busted on their first go round Leonard Lake he's about 18 years older than Charles
ing lake called ing Charlie most of the time as we said Lake was married this is
to Clarin blaz now after the raid on the house and once Leonard decided that it he was cool
with being a fugitive the two of them made it official to split up they separated and
they made it official with a divorce what it looks to me Captain and plenty of evidence to back this up is that
while there was this divorce this was not a complete break because it very much turned into a Friends with Benefits
type situation it was basically let's get a divorce but we're going to still be in a relationship together so we're
just separated on paper separated in on paper but also separated for I wouldn't say all of the time but most of the time
right like so from my understanding the way that this panned out is the two would continue to carry on a sexual and
romantic relationship Leonard lake is again living at this hiding out at this cabin that belongs to clar Land's
parents even after they separate she would often spend like the weekends there with him or may go out there for a
couple of weeks at a time but the deal that they kind of had was Clarin didn't want to live her life on
the run right Leonard Lake thought that she was far too young she was much younger than he was he thought that she
was far too young and had too much left of her life in front of her that she didn't need to get all wrapped up into
his troubles with the law right because if they find him and her together she's likely going to be facing all kinds of
charges similar to what happened to him when he was hosting Charles Inc Yeah so basically it seems like this guy was
intent on on living a life of crime or living his life however he wanted to and if that involved crime so be it but if
they come to get me I'm not coming willingly you nailed it that's that's exactly what it appears that he wished
to do so the two of them they struck up this kind of deal they were still going to be
friends with benefits and Leonard Lake would be hiding out and hopefully for him and for Clarin she would remain
beyond the reach of the law because she's not Tethered to him well this is almost a perfect hiding out spot because
has a very long driveway it's gated so if somebody's coming to try to find Leonard he would have a
heads up to get your stuff get out of the house hide in the woods for about an hour and then once they leave you go
back to the property it's a little surprising to me and I think it will be to the listeners as well as we continue
on here because I feel like if they were really looking for Leonard Lake if they were
really concerned about him that he's like two degrees from his ex-wife right it wouldn't be very difficult it
wouldn't take the world's greatest detective to track this man down and law enforcement is probably not going to be
open and honest about this but I wonder how many times they went out to this property to look for him and were just
Bamboozled because like I said he could go hide out somewhere for a while and then come back when they're gone yeah
I'm with you I agree on that the only issue though I think I don't think they were actually even looking for him
there's indic ators from law enforcement that they didn't consider him to be a priority fugitive right while Leonard
Lake thought that he was and so he thinks he's on the Run needs to live in hiding but the truth is
the people he's running and hiding from they're not really looking for him yeah he's he's playing a solo game of hide
and seek Leonard Lake would go on to be just about every type of criminal that one can think of like the captain said
he's he's decided that this is now going to be his lifestyle and if he has to commit crimes to provide for himself for
his own Survival then so be it he will so he will go on to commit every kind of crime that one can think of so before we
get into the really bad stuff this guy was already into extortion theft and he was very much a
con man and attempt to commit to commit cons on the regular he had a few very unhealthy obsessions as well he was
obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves and he was obsessed with making pornography this through photography
filming and producing pornography he liked to make pornography for several reasons he was building his
own person collection but he would also use the materials he created for extortion purposes he called this sex
cons today we see and hear words like sex tortion we have seen this type of disgusting behavior and bullying frankly
from pedophiles online predators and even high school students and this is typically where he would get someone to
commit to being involved and agree to being involved in either photographs or actual
filming of pornography and then later use it to extort them for multiple reasons it could be
for to force them into sex acts later or to extort money from them he used this for all kinds of different purposes in
fact I've reviewed plenty of cases especially in the' 70s where pedophiles would use this type of tactic where they
would pay or give alcohol and maybe even marijuana to teenage boys to take photographs of them and then later
threaten to show those pictures to their parents and get them to do things that they otherwise would not be willing to
do and that's exactly what online predators are doing and even high school students are doing these days with their
cell phones and persons that they meet on the internet and anybody following the news right now this is some of the
stuff that they're claiming going after Puff Daddy about now as difficult as it may seem I actually
believe that Leonard Lake as big of a hypocrite and a monster that he was I do believe that he was capable of some form
of love maybe not as we the normal folks would know it or understand love to be but I
do believe that he did love Clarin baz and I also think that he loved the book The Collector The Collector is a
1963 psychological Thriller novel by John fowls some have even called it horror Fiction it's a rather brilliant
book its plot follows a Lon young man who kidnaps a female artart student in London her name in the book is Miranda
the man holds Miranda captive in the cellar of his rural Farmhouse Leonard Lake discovers this
book as a young man and will read it several times during his lifetime remember it is very evident
that for much of Leonard's life he is obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves these slaves both for the purpose
of Performing work task and job duties but also to possess sex slaves a woman to have whenever he desires to do
whatever he desires and then put her away for later I think this is in a way how and why Leonard Lake got
involved with Charles in so the way that these two meet and law enforcement has spent a good deal of
time trying to figure this out exactly when where and how the two of them met because remember Leonard lake is in
California and he's been out of the military for quite some time Charles in is on the run from the military who he
organized these guys this group of guys to get together and steal automatic guns from the US
government it sounds like another person retired from the military connected the
two that Charles ing was on the Run stayed with this retired Sergeant who then put him in touch with Leonard Lake
and then he went to California and was hiding out there with Lake it's believed that there was some kind of classified
ad that was placed in one of those Soldier of Fortune or survivalist type magazines that Lake may have responded
to and that's how this whole relationship started now the reason why I say that I think that this is why Lake
got involved with ing is that once in was staying with him he knows the situation he knows this guy is on the
run and so he is making him work for free he's basically working for room and board right and doing all these jobs and
things for Leonard lake so that he has a place to hide out well like you said Leonard was in the Army served during
Vietnam and was discharged I believe diagnosed with schizophrenia Leonard leg thought very
highly of himself thought he was um this genius thought if there was a apocalypse
he would be the only person to survive and that he would have to seed the rest of the
world and in a way this is how Charles kind of thought of himself Lake was born in San Francisco and in
1964 After High School he enlisted in the United States Marine Corps he served two tours of Duty in Vietnam after a
delusional breakdown he was diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder and then later he is he receives a medical
discharge from the Marine Corps this is in 1971 now back to the 80s I had said earlier that this raid that led to
Leonard lak's wanted status would have a domino effect well it most certainly did
in part because Leonard Lake needed to survive he needed an income he needed transportation
he needed a place to live well some of that meant that he needed a different identity so Lake from that day on was
always on the lookout for how to make money how to have a steady income and how to steal an identity and use that
identity of someone else that he could pass for cars were always a thing that he was on the lookout for as
well so now we have to introduce Leonard's brother his name Donald Lake Donald lake is about 5 years younger
than Leonard this will take us to December of 1982 Captain so at this time Donald lake is about 32 at this
point unfortunately Donald suffered from a disability due to an accident when he
was hit by a train as a kid so he suffered mental problems Leonard did not like his brother the accident and
subsequent disability required Donald to be taken care of almost Around the Clock
Leonard's parents were already separated when this accident took place so now we have a single mom with an
absent father and an additional needs child well in this situation this meant that Leonard was
sent off to be raised by his grandparents when married Leonard told his wife that his brother was a leech
and that his brother did not deserve to live in December of 1982 Donald was living with his mother this is in San
Fran Leonard pretending to be a good brother offered to take Donald on a road trip this for a house sitting job that
Leonard was scheduled for Leonard picked up Donald on the way and then all of a sudden Donald
was never seen again so the family reports Donald is missing with the police then a letter
arrives at bomb's house it's from Donald saying that he no longer wished to live
with his mother and that he had decided to move to Reno Nevada and he had made arrangements for his monthly disability
checks to be sent to him at his new address [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]
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garage all right we are back cheers mates talk hands in the air cheers to you Colonel cheers to you Captain this
brings us to something that is called operation fish and and the way that this works
here Captain is in May of 1983 Mr Leonard Lake moved in with his friend Charles gunar Charles is 36 at
this time from the outside looking in my guess captain is that most people would
believe that Charles gunar was Leonard lakes's best friend I would go as far as to wager of
Franklin that gunar believed himself to be Leonard Lake's best friend gunar like
Lake had a military background Charles Gunner had retired from the Navy Gunner was the best man at Lake's wedding back
in 1981 they both shared an interest in survival skills guns and collecting other types of weapons so these two had
known each other pretty well for years when they were married they knew each other's wives they spent time together
Lake spent time with Gunner's family and knew his two kid do ERS as well on May 22nd the two took a road trip to Las
Vegas or maybe it was to Tahoe Leonard Lake would tell people different locations both before and after the trip
gunar was recently divorced from his wife and he was the primary caregiver for his two
daughters the daughters did not go on this trip this was to be a guys road trip two old buddies both single hitting
the road in Gunner's van after the two were gone for a few days Leonard Lake came cruising back into town but he's
alone and he's in Gunner's van Lake tells everyone that while they were on their trip that his good buddy fell in
love and ran off with some woman that he had just met Lake said that he didn't know how anyone could get in touch with
gunar but he was sure that eventually gunar would return either to be with or to collect his two
daughters and what we now know Captain is the Charles gunar was never seen again no which makes two people that
left with lake and never never came back now a little reminder here Charles in is
locked up during all of this he is serving his time in Kanas Leonard lake is living in this
wilsley Ville which which is an unincorporated community in caleris County California it's not until after Charles
is released in 1984 that the two meet up again by the time that Charles ing finds
his way back to Now The Fugitive living on the Run Leonard lake lake is living alone he's
using the name Charles gunar and he has constructed a survival bunker directly behind his house now we're
going to say neighbors here Captain but as you know and you've described some of
this area where he's living the neighbors are few and far between to put it simple and
short but the neighbors that he has interaction with these neighbors were told that again this is Leonard Lake AKA
Charles Gunner he he's using this name and that's how all of his neighbors know him to be Charles
Gunner he tells the neighbors that this building is kind of a just in case it's like an emergency plan for the end times
times that Lake believed were coming sooner rather than later and that was true not the end times were upon us but
that the bunker was built as an emergency survival bunker but according to Lake and what he would tell to
Charles in when he gets there that this bunker had another use and a more immediate
purpose and that purpose Leonard Lake told Charles was something that lake called operation
Miranda unfortunately this remote area will afford these two the Privacy they needed and desired these two guys they
spent the next year stealing from their neighbors what they would do is they had these
different sheds or cabins whatever you want to call them most most sources call them cabins but these are very
small structures where one might spend a night or a weekend or a couple of nights
this is not somewhere where one would live somebody might go there and rent the place or do a favor or work it work
the land for a little bit and get the opportunity to stay there briefly yeah this wasn't like a resort if You' see
these structures You' consider that you're going out to the woods to rough it it's like thousands of Acres I
believe and we're talking about uh a a large sprawling Ranch anybody that's seen Yellowstone knows
what we're kind of talking about a very large plot of land except for those big beautiful cabins that you see on the
show Yellowstone that we don't have any big beautiful cabins or Mansion type houses at on these Acres on this acreage
here we have these smaller houses and then we also have these sheds or cabins as they were called now from my
understanding Captain a lot of these cabins the small ones that I'm talking about were up in elevated land like in
the they're in the Foothills but these are elevated what I think that Leonard Lake was doing is I think he was going
up there positioning himself inside one of these cabins so he can kind of spy on
the neighbors who all live down below and from this vantage point from some of these Vantage points he could
look into their houses where these persons lived long term either renters or maybe even they had purchased the
structure but what this gave him the ability to do because this area is so remote we're not talking about having to
kick in a door or break a window to get into these people's homes where they live he would
often just watch and wait and when he could see that no one was there sneak in a back door maybe a side door and steal
valuables from these dwellings now of course everybody knows that this is going on but nobody knows who's doing it
and in conversation with the other neighbors lake is telling them he's experiencing the same problems I'm a
victim as well exactly he's he's a victim as well the other thing that this remote area and his living
situation affords him unfortunately and we know this on a couple of occasions that Lake and ing L
people men and at least a one woman that we could find to the cabin to their where they lived with the promise of
work like hey we we own this ranch we're working this ranch we're the caretakers
here we're also working the land a couple of these people were told that Lake was running a pot farm that he
needed persons to come out and help work this pot farm like in one situation one
man arrives he goes out there thinking he's got a job showing up for work and instead he finds Lake and ing who end up
robbing him and then killing the man right then there was the dobs family we have husband and father his name is
Harvey dubs he was aged 29 at the time he placed an advertisement in a newspaper
and unfortunately that listing caught the eye of a one Leonard Lake Harvey dubs was selling some video
equipment Lake needs some video equipment for his Miranda operation I don't know if it it
was that he was selling it cuz he was also known to rent the equipment out to people yeah I mean that could be a
possibility the the information I have was that he was it was a listing for this equipment to be sold but regardless
this is what's going to put Lake in contact with Harvey dubs right so on July 25th Harvey's wife Deborah was
she's talking on the telephone to a friend during this conversation the doorbell rings at their
apartment Deborah tells her friend on the other end hey I gotta go I got to I got to hop off the phone here there's
two men who are interested in the items that are listed and they've arrived so she hops off the phone now the dubs
family they're living in an apartment building they regularly spoke with and kept in contact with their neighbors in
particular their downstairs neighbor so we have other people living in this building the
Neighbors after a while start to notice that at some point in Late July the young couple with the little
baby boy that they were you know regularly seen going in and out of their apartment they were no longer
seen right instead more than one neighbor noticed an Asian man going in and out of the young couple's apartment
yeah there's multiple Witnesses seeing men going in and out of the property carrying items and they were able to
give uh descriptions to police then in another strange turn of events Harvey's work Harvey Dub's work receives
a strange phone call from a man who identified himself as James brigh this Mr brigh told
Harvey's employer that Harvey dubs had to go to Washington state for a family emergency and he may not be back anytime
soon so this family of three vanished including the one-year-old Shawn dubs it's
believed that Lake and ing likely used the baby to control the parents that once they got into the
apartment under the ruls that they were there to look at the video equipment either for the purpose of renting or
purchasing that no that's not what they were there to do they were there to do much
worse include stealing said video equipment but the thought here is that is that they used the little one to
control the parents and then move move the parents and the family as they pleased and so obviously
you have people reporting this family missing law enforcement gets involved they're going to do a search of the
property and they know hey the last person to talk with anybody in this family she was mentioning these guys
were coming over to look at this video equipment very expensive video equipment and guess
what the video equipment's gone and they also found some I think it was some phone wire that
was tied to a door handle and then they started thinking well maybe they tied an individual up as
they're controlling the other members of the family so right away the law enforcement wasn't just thinking that
this family disappeared Into Thin Air pretty quickly law enforcement was on to the idea that something bad probably
happened to this family and it probably involved this camera equipment and the thing that is terrible here for all
involved the law enforcement and the neighbors and the family the only leads that they really have is like you said
there Captain we have the neighbors who witnessed an Asian man going in and out of the
apartment on a on several occasions there's at least one eyewitness that spots the Asian man
getting into a vehicle I believe it was some kind of Volkswagen and she's able to provide a
description of the driver to law enforcement where she says it's a Caucasian male with a a dark beard a
balding Caucasian male with a dark black beard really all they have to work off of law enforcement is this
description of these two men they're and I hate to paint this horrible picture here but police are
really trying to dissect this situation and trying to figure out exactly the movements of
everyone because the problem becomes in this situation at this scene is how how the hell would these
men have got a family of three out of this populated apartment building without being seen nobody saw anybody in
the family leave that property and so the thought was there was at least one witness that had seen the Asian man
leaving the apartment carrying a large suitcase there are some that think that possibly like you had said at some point
someone's tied up up with that telephone cord in the apartment they think that maybe the small child was moved outside
to a vehicle and then with that threat already in place the remaining abductor who's still in the
apartment with the parents was able to control them in that manner and to get them to move quietly out to the car they
think that took place overnight because of the time period of when the male is seen leaving the
apartment with the large suitcase and we do know that Leonard Lake based off of what we've already discussed and things
that we will go through as we continue on here he's a weapons fanatic we know he and so is Charles ing so no doubt
they they likely used a gun in the scenario but it's good to have a clear understanding that this apartment
building was populated as such that you they're not finding evidence other than that telephone cord that that any kind
of major scuffle took place inside this apartment they're not finding any evidence that anybody was killed inside
this apartment so what everything is suggesting to law enforcement and investigators at the time is that
somehow somebody was able to successfully move these individuals out of the apartment and also move any items
that they desire to steal from the apartment yeah well you have two individuals both military background both weapon
experts both criminal experts because they don't do just one crime they do any crime that gets them from point A to
point B whatever they're trying to do in their life if there's a crime that can get
them there they will do it and so I think what they did was like you said if we can get to the child we can
control the situation and maybe they thought doesn't matter if there is a child or not if we can get to one of the
members in the family who can control the situation and the ruse probably was simply hey this is a robbery we're only
after camera equipment this is how the crime is going to go down and you will do what we say and if you do what we say
nobody gets hurt we're only after the camera equipment that's right we got the kid in the car we're just all going to
go for a ride we just need to get all of you out of the apartment and then you the three of you will be safe we'll drop
you off somewhere again it's it's a situation where yeah we know Charles A is really into this highrisk type of
behavior and crimes but at the same time they this is not the type of apartment building where we can have gunshots
going off without anybody noticing in fact there there were a couple of people that liveed near this young couple that
said we think that they went missing on this date because we we live so close to
one another you can often hear each other through the walls or through the floor
and we stopped hearing this very active young family on this date and that's when police and detectives are going
this is on the same date that Deborah's on the phone with a friend and says she's got to hang up there's some people
at the door that are here to look at this video equipment that's July 25th [Music]
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The Collector & the Fugitive /// Part 1 /// 754

Part 1 of 2

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Leonard Lake and Charles Ng silently terrorized and collected victims in the greater San Fransisco area for about two years. Leonard Lake was a criminal in every way, committing every type of criminal offense that one could think of. He was obsessed with the book “The Collector" by John Fowles. When Lake met Charles Ng, Charles was a fugitive on the run from the U.S. Government. To this day we still do not know how many people fell prey to this California Killer duo.

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Brief Summary

Leonard Lake and Charles Ing's crimes lead to mysterious disappearances and a chilling investigation in California's death camp.

Key points

Unlocking Insights from the Stars. Discover how astrology can reveal fascinating insights about artists and writers.
The Death Camp Discovery. Detectives uncover a chilling secret room with disturbing rules at a ranch in California.
Fugitive Capture in Pho. The FBI SWAT team raids a small town to capture a fugitive connected to stolen weapons.
Leonard Lake's Criminal Evolution. Leonard Lake transforms into a fugitive and begins a life of crime after a raid.
Obsession with Slavery and Control. Leonard Lake's disturbing obsession with possessing slaves and creating pornography is revealed.
The Disappearance of Donald. Donald goes missing after a road trip with his brother Leonard.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This property would be referred to as the death camp.

4:27WatchMay 1, 2024

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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